Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

The essay ran in The Dispatch. Then a few hundred readers wrote back, and a few of them changed my mind. There is such a thing as Trump Derangement Syndrome. It just isn't what most people mean when they say it. This one goes behind the essay: the passages that got cut, the third man who never made it into the print version, and the comment section that turned out to be the best part of the whole thing. Calls to Action ✅ Leave a rating and review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ✅ Share this episode with someone who reads the news and someone who's given up on it Links and Resources "Does Trump Derangement Syndrome Have a Cure?" - thedispatch.com/newsletter/dispatch-faith/maga-christianity-donald-trump The Dispatch - thedispatch.com Connect with Us Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, TikTok, X: @coreysnathan YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Our Partners Proud to be part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it. Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

Carl Cannon came up in newsrooms where editors challenged you word by word, and nearly fifty years on he's still keeping score on who gets the quote right. His one rule, for reporting and for arguing in general: describe the other side so faithfully they'd claim it as their own. The Washington bureau chief of RealClearPolitics learned the trade from his father, Reagan biographer Lou Cannon, and came up the old way: small papers, police and courts, editors who challenged every word. This conversation runs from fake quotes and the reporters who hunt them, to the Yellowstone wolves as a lesson in fairness, to why doing your own thinking tends to leave you independent of both parties.  Calls to Action ✅ Follow the show wherever you listen ✅ Leave a rating and review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ✅ Share this episode with someone who reads the news and someone who's given up on it Key Takeaways The Carl Cannon Rule. Describe someone's position so faithfully they'd claim it as their own, or you're just knocking down straw men. Fair and accurate, not objective. The honest standard was never neutrality. It's doing the work, getting the quote right, and giving the other side its say. Why the wolves matter. He dropped the ranchers' case into a pro-wolf story, and both sides came away sure he was secretly with them. That's the job. Never needlessly make your own behavior the issue. His rule of life, and a fair test for anyone trying to argue in good faith. About Our Guest Carl Cannon is the Washington bureau chief of RealClearPolitics and executive editor of RealClear Media Group. The son of Reagan biographer Lou Cannon, he has covered national politics for nearly five decades at the Baltimore Sun, National Journal, and Knight Ridder, and is the author of several books. Links and Resources RealClearPolitics: realclearpolitics.com Connect with us Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn: @coreysnathan Partners Proud to be part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it. Give the other side its say, and get the quote right. Now go talk some politics and religion with gentleness and respect.

Something a little different this week. This is a Village Squarecast episode, shared here in full, and you'll hear Corey host the top before turning it over to Liz Joyner, founder and president of The Village Square. Steve Seibert moderates. The guest is Dr. Yuval Levin, director of social, cultural, and constitutional studies at the American Enterprise Institute, founder and editor of National Affairs, and author of American Covenant: How the Constitution Unified Our Nation and Could Again. He has been on TP&R before. And we just loved hearing him with our good friends at the Village Square. The argument that makes this worth your ninety minutes: we don't disagree too much in this country. We disagree too little. We spend our days talking about each other instead of to each other, and the Constitution was built less to make us agree than to help us act together when we don't. In this conversation: ✅ Why the left and right at their best are both telling part of the truth, one a politics of formation, the other a politics of liberation ✅ Why unity was never meant to mean thinking alike ✅ How a system built to be slow and frustrating trades speed for legitimacy ✅ The case for growing the House by 150 members, and why it would only take a law ✅ Why term limits for Congress would hand the institution to lobbyists ✅ Martin Van Buren, party systems, and a tip of the cap to nobody's favorite president About the guest Yuval Levin serves as a senior editor at The New Atlantis and a contributing editor at National Review. He served on the White House domestic policy staff under President George W. Bush. He holds a master's and a PhD from the University of Chicago and is the author of seven books. More from The Village Square This conversation closes out UNUM: Democracy Reignited, The Village Square's series with Florida Humanities marking America at 250. Subscribe to Village Squarecast wherever you listen, and support their work at villagesquare.us/donate. Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Watch on YouTube. Leave a review at lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion. Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

The press is the only industry the Constitution protects. Hugo Balta thinks too many newsrooms forgot why, and he walked out to prove it. Hugo Balta spent three decades in newsrooms at NBC, MSNBC, Telemundo, CBS, ABC, and ESPN before leaving mainstream media for independent journalism. He now serves as executive editor of The Fulcrum and publisher of the Latino News Network, and he remains the only person in the history of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists to serve twice as its president. This conversation runs from a Paterson, NJ childhood as the son of Peruvian immigrants to why he rejects objectivity as a marketing tool, what a free press is actually for, and the morning he flew the flag upside down. Calls to Action ✅ Follow the show wherever you listen ✅ Leave a rating and review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion ✅ Share this episode with someone who works in or distrusts the media Key Takeaways Objectivity is a marketing tool. No journalist checks their identity at the newsroom door, and pretending otherwise is what audiences have stopped believing. The honest standard is fair and accurate, built on transparent methods and undisputed facts. The math flipped, so he left. Early in his career, journalism was 70 percent of the job and business pressure 30. A decade later that ratio inverted toward clicks and presidential tweets, and that was the moment he chose independence. Diagnosing a problem is only half the work. Solutions journalism holds that reporters owe readers more than a spotlight on what's broken. The turn toward what right looks like, backed by evidence and a few action items, is what separates informing from educating. Understand the motivation, not just the position. Most disagreements are about the path, not the destination. Asking what drives someone's stance humanizes them and opens the ground where real debate can happen. About Our Guest Hugo Balta is executive editor of The Fulcrum and publisher of the Latino News Network, which has grown under his leadership to ten local and national digital news sites. A three-decade veteran of network and public media, he is an accredited Solutions Journalism Network trainer and teaches at Columbia College Chicago. Links and Resources The Fulcrum: thefulcrum.us Latino News Network: latinonewsnetwork.com Hugo Balta on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/hugobalta Connect with Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, X, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn: @coreysnathan Partners Proud to be part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it. Fair and accurate beats objective every time. Now go talk some politics and religion with gentleness and respect.

She left the church at twenty-five. She never stopped praying, and she still doesn't know who's listening. Lauren Jackson writes Believing, the New York Times newsletter about how people practice faith and doubt now, and she came to the beat by way of her own departure from the Mormon church she was raised in. Corey talks with her about what secularism can't replace, what AI is quietly taking from us, and the question she brings to every hard conversation. Calls to Action ✅ Subscribe to Lauren's newsletter, Believing, at The New York Times ✅ Follow her on Instagram: @laurenchristinejackson ✅ Enjoyed this one? Leave a quick review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Ask what if they're right. Before a hard conversation, Lauren puts that question to herself, then listens. Your position may not move, but you get closer to the humanity of the person across from you, and that turns out to matter more. Secularism won, and it still can't do everything. Religion delivers beliefs, belonging, and behaviors in one place, and nothing secular offers all three at once. The absence shows up as a hunger for community that people describe to her constantly. Belief is spiking. Attendance isn't. Gallup finds a sharp jump in young men under thirty who call religion very important, without the matching rise in showing up anywhere. Religion is increasingly a piece of a packaged identity rather than a practice. Resist the doctrine of efficiency. Father James Martin's phrase, and Lauren's working rule. We lose to machines on volume, so the only place left to win is quality, which requires the slowness that AI is designed to eliminate. She will always seek to humanize. Not condone, and not valorize. Understand what real, human motivations produce behavior we find contestable, which is harder to sit with than a verdict. We are the times. A friend gave her Augustine's line from the sacking of Rome, and it landed as an assignment. Despairing about the age is a way of pretending we are not participants in it. About Our Guest Lauren Jackson is deputy editorial director for newsletters at The New York Times and the host of Believing, a weekly newsletter about how people live religion and spirituality now. Links and Resources 📩 Believing at The New York Times - www.nytimes.com/newsletters/believing 📷 Instagram — @laurencristinejackson 📖 Letters and Papers from Prison — Dietrich Bonhoeffer Connect with Us Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, TikTok, X: @coreysnathan YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Our Partners Proud to be part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it. Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

The founders weren't just the names in the history books. You count as one, and citizenship is something you practice. Lindsey Cormack studies how members of Congress actually talk to the people they represent, and she wrote the book on why civics belongs at home long before it reaches a classroom. Corey sits down with her on what it takes to raise a citizen, why disagreement is where the learning happens, and how a new podcast makes the case that government doesn't always have to suck. Calls to Action ✅ Grab Lindsey's book, How to Raise a Citizen (And Why It's Up to You to Do It): howtoraiseacitizen.com ✅ Follow her new podcast, Government That Doesn't Suck ✅ Enjoyed this one? Leave a quick review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Every American is a founder. Lindsey reframes citizenship as something you practice, not something performed on you. The question she puts to students of every age, "what kind of founder are you," turns civic life from a spectator sport into a personal responsibility. Two classes is not a civic education. Most Americans get one social studies class in middle school and one government class in high school, then nothing. That's too little, too late for a subject this size. Open with "what have you heard?" Since there's no shared set of facts anymore, that question sets the table without a fight. From there, "what do you think" and "what do you know" move things toward learning instead of scorekeeping. Winning is the wrong goal. The point of talking across difference is to learn why someone thinks the way they do, not to convert them. The pressure drops the moment you stop keeping score. Government doesn't always have to suck. Lindsey's new show with Greg Jackson studies the times American government got things right, on the logic that you can't repeat a success you never bothered to examine. Grounded optimism holds up better than either blind cheerleading or constant despair. About Our Guest Lindsey Cormack is an associate professor of political science at Stevens Institute of Technology, creator of the DC Inbox database of congressional e-newsletters, author of How to Raise a Citizen (And Why It's Up to You to Do It), and co-host of the podcast Government That Doesn't Suck. Links and Resources 📘 How to Raise a Citizen (And Why It's Up to You to Do It) 🎙️ Government That Doesn't Suck — podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/government-that-doesnt-suck/id1896938110 🗂️ DCinbox Insights on Substack — dcinboxinsights.substack.com 📸 Instagram — @howtoraiseacitizen 🦋 X and Bluesky — @DCInbox Connect with Us Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Bluesky, TikTok, X: @coreysnathan YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Our Partners Proud to be part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it. Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

Through Psalm 74 and the firebombing of a New Jersey synagogue in 1984, a bar mitzvah season becomes a reckoning with the places we call hallowed and what survives once they've been defiled. A solo reflection on desecration, spectacle, and the unglamorous work of redemption, from an old tavern's charred remains to the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in the year of America's 250th. ✅ If this one landed, leave a quick review so others looking for conversations like it can find them too: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Find Corey @coreysnathan across the socials, and join the conversation over on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can fix it together. The buckets and the steel wool. That's the work of redemption.

A doctor once told Rich Harwood's mother to face it, her son was a lemon. He's spent his life proving no one is disposable, and that even the most divided towns in America can build something together. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion What does it take to heal a divided town? Less talking, says Rich Harwood. After almost 40 years running the Harwood Institute for Public Innovation, he's watched the poorest community in America and some of the most divided places in the country do what most of us have stopped believing is possible: build something together, across every line that's supposed to keep them apart. The conversation runs from Moses and Lincoln to a synagogue firebombing to the three working men who saved his life as a sick kid, and lands on a deceptively simple idea about what we owe one another. A few takeaways: Pull issues out of the political frame and people agree more than they think. Harwood works the reddest and bluest places in the country and says he can't tell who voted for whom. Ask people what they care about instead of who they voted for, and the same concerns surface everywhere: youth, seniors, mental health, belonging. Start small. Big comprehensive plans tend to collapse under their own weight. Real change starts with one modest step that catalyzes a chain reaction, the way practice dinners at a single church spread across an entire county in Reading, Pennsylvania. Turn outward. Sharing space begins with a posture, not a technique. Physically turn toward the other person, choose to see them, and lead with curiosity about what matters to them. About our guest: Rich Harwood is president and founder of the Harwood Institute for Public Innovation and the author of several books, most recently The New Civic Path: Restoring Our Belief in One Another and Our Nation (2024). Find Rich: The Harwood Institute: theharwoodinstitute.org Rich Harwood on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/richardcharwood ✅ Subscribe to the Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Follow @coreysnathan across the platforms ✅ Loved this one? Rate and review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it. Rich wants the sequel over a beer. We're holding him to it.

An off-the-cuff solo update on two essays in the works: one on the sacred spaces we share and what survives their desecration, the other on the real derangement in our politics, told through three men Corey loves and has watched change. Plus the launch of something new for the show, taking the mission to a local pub, the divier the better, to talk politics and religion on camera, over a drink, with friends who see the world differently. ✅ If you're into where this is heading, leave a quick review so others looking for conversations like this can find them too: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Find Corey @coreysnathan across the socials, and join the conversation over on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can fix it together. Pull up a stool. We're just getting started.

Some state lawmakers drive Uber to afford the job. The best of them are walking away. Layla Zaidane runs the largest nonpartisan organization for young lawmakers in the country, and her team's "Exit Interview" found that the most promising bipartisan legislators are leaving office over problems that are entirely fixable. This conversation launches Terms of Service, a new collaboration between Future Caucus and TP&R that takes you inside what it actually costs to serve. Key Takeaways The math doesn't work. The average state lawmaker earns about $20,000 less than the average American worker. That pushes good people toward second jobs or out of office entirely. The best ones are quitting. The legislators most willing to work across the aisle are resigning at high rates, and the reasons are solvable: pay, staff, scheduling, safety. State houses are less broken than you think. Smaller chambers and retail-scale politics let lawmakers build the trust that gridlocked institutions can't. Violence brought out the worst and the best. As threats against officials rose, some of the most powerful responses came from bipartisan pairs refusing to let it become normal. About Our Guest Layla Zaidane is president and CEO of Future Caucus, the largest nonpartisan organization for young lawmakers in the United States, working with Gen Z and millennial legislators across 36 states to govern across party lines. Links and Resources Future Caucus: futurecaucus.org | @futurecaucus Layla Zaidane: @lzaidane TP&R is proud to be part of The Democracy Group podcast network. ✅ If this one landed, leave a quick review so others looking for conversations like it can find them too: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Find Corey @coreysnathan across the socials, and join the conversation over on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com The Terms of Service series is a partnership between Scan Media and Future Caucus. Executive Producers: Future Caucus and Layla Zaidane. Learn more about Future Caucus at www.futurecaucus.org.

Through the lens of the Tennessee Williams play, The Glass Menagerie, a morning walk through Washington, from DuPont Circle to the Jefferson Memorial, becomes a reckoning with what we've made of our civic sacred spaces. A solo reflection on desecration, devotion, and a faith in the American experiment that proves harder to walk away from than intended. ✅ If this one landed, leave a quick review so others looking for conversations like it can find them too: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Find Corey @coreysnathan across the socials, and join the conversation over on Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts examining what's broken in our democracy and how we can fix it together. Beautiful, impossible, and ours anyway.

“It’s easy to hate things you don’t understand.” Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Kristin Wilson spent three decades producing Washington coverage, including a decade running CNN’s Capitol Hill unit, with stops at NBC, CBS, Nightline, the BBC, and Fox News. Now she’s co-founder and executive producer of 535, a journalist-founded, nonpartisan newsroom built to cover the policy of Congress. The conversation gets into what gets lost when the cameras chase conflict, why bipartisan work still happens when no one is looking, and how seeing legislators as people makes them harder to write off. Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Policy is the story. 535 covers the appropriations fights, committee work, and behind-the-scenes deals that move real money and shape real lives. It’s harder to dislike people up close. Watch members talk about what they care about, and the cartoon version gets harder to hold onto. The aisle still gets crossed. From steak invitations to co-sponsored bills, members find ways to work together when they decide to. Ask, then listen. Kristin’s whole craft comes down to asking a real question and actually hearing the answer. About Our Guest Kristin Wilson is co-founder and executive producer of 535, a new kind of newsroom for the policy of Congress. Over nearly 30 years she led CNN’s Hill coverage and produced for NBC, CBS, Nightline, the BBC, and Fox News. Links and Resources 535 - 535.news Kristin Wilson - @kristin-wilson Grateful to our friends at The Democracy Group - www.democracygroup.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

This was one of our most listened-to conversations of the past year. If you missed it the first time, here's your second chance. She moderated the fly debate. She interviewed Stephen Hawking. She covered 12 presidential campaigns and sat down with the last 10 presidents. And she spent years inside Queen Elizabeth’s extraordinary vantage point on American democracy — one that no American journalist could ever fully replicate. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief of USA TODAY, joins Corey to discuss her latest book, The Queen and Her Presidents: a sweeping account of Queen Elizabeth II’s relationships with every American president from Truman to Biden. But this conversation goes well beyond the book. Susan reflects on a career that began in a converted car dealership on Long Island, the lessons she learned covering her first president (and how badly she blew it), what it really takes to develop sources across decades of political reporting, and why — from a Kansas girl’s perspective — the people on both sides of our divide love America more than we give them credit for. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Preparation is a framework, not a script. Susan goes into every major interview with a plan — what she wants to get, how to get it, what to do if the answer goes sideways. But the goal is to inform the conversation, not control it. The worst thing an interviewer can do, she says, is fail to listen to the answer. Great sourcing is built on respect and fairness, not on pulling punches. Rich Bond, the young Long Island operative she profiled in 1979, became a top Republican official and a reliable source for decades — not because she went easy on him, but because he trusted her to be fair. She would not have softened a story about him, and he knew it. Books and daily journalism use the same muscle, differently. The skills transfer directly — the sourcing, the curiosity, the nose for a good detail — but the bar is higher and the time horizon is longer. Writing a book means people are paying thirty dollars and spending real time. You owe them something they couldn’t get from clicking a link. The best research rewards patience. Sifting through archival files at eight presidential libraries and the National Archives in Britain yielded moments that almost nobody else has read. The sarcastic cables British ambassadors sent back about LBJ as vice president confirmed everything LBJ already suspected they thought of him. They love America. Whether she’s at a No Kings rally or a MAGA rally, Susan hears the same thing: people who care deeply, who revere the Constitution, who think they’re fighting for the country. The polarization isn’t about love of country — it’s about a failure to extend basic respect across the divide. Queen Elizabeth perfected the art of getting people to talk. Her small talk strategy — chatter briefly, then turn the question back — was especially effective with men, who, as Susan notes diplomatically, tend to enjoy talking about themselves. Susan has consciously adopted the technique and credits it with making her better at navigating rooms full of strangers. About Our Guest Susan Page is the Washington Bureau Chief of USA TODAY and one of the most respected political journalists in America. She has covered 12 presidential campaigns and interviewed the last 10 presidents. She moderated the 2020 vice presidential debate between Kamala Harris and Mike Pence — yes, the one with the fly — and is the bestselling author of biographies of Barbara Bush, Nancy Pelosi, and Barbara Walters. Her latest book, The Queen and Her Presidents, chronicles Queen Elizabeth II’s relationships with every American president from Truman through Biden. Links and Resources The Queen and Her Presidents by Susan Page — susanpagedc.com Grateful to our friends at The Democracy Group: www.democracygroup.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok “Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room.” Yes, really.

What if the way we talk about "the other side" isn't just rude — it's something closer to dehumanization? Consumer and social psychologist Lura Forcum has a precise vocabulary for what's happening, and a clear-eyed prescription for what to do about it. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Lura writes the newsletter How to Human and co-hosts We Made This Political with political scientist Lauren Hall. Her work sits at the intersection of human behavior, civic life, and the social cognition we're outsourcing to screens, algorithms, and AI. Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Infrahumanization is the dehumanization we don't notice. Calling people vermin is rare and widely rejected. But treating the other side as interchangeable, simple, or incapable of real suffering? That's everywhere — and it's the mental move that makes cruelty psychologically possible. Politics is relational, and we've been pretending it isn't. Civic life is built from relationships that require reciprocity. We've convinced ourselves the normal rules don't apply when the subject is politics. They do. Broken relationships have to be repaired. We evolved for face-to-face. We didn't evolve for this. Online, you never have to reckon with being wrong about someone. In person, you're stuck with them — and that's the point. About Our Guest Lura Forcum is a consumer and social psychologist, strategic advisor, and former professor. She writes How to Human on Substack and co-hosts We Made This Political with Lauren Hall. Links and Resources How to Human: luraforcum.substack.com We Made This Political: wemadethispolitical.substack.com Lura on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/luraforcum Grateful to our friends at The Democracy Group: www.democracygroup.org You evolved to do this. You've just been out of practice.

When the theological scrutiny is ferocious for the Democrat and nonexistent for the Republican, you're not watching theology. You're watching idolatry. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review:   lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Ken Paxton won the Republican primary for the Texas U.S. Senate seat. He was impeached 121-23 by a Republican-controlled House, divorced on biblical grounds, and caught on video pocketing a thousand-dollar pen. James Talarico, the Democratic nominee, attends Princeton Seminary and talks openly about his faith. Prominent evangelical voices have published multiple pieces questioning Talarico's Christian credibility. You won't find comparable scrutiny of Paxton. This episode is about what that asymmetry actually reveals, and why refusing to traffic in fear and anger is the harder road. Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways The scrutiny follows the letter, not the life. The asymmetry between evangelical treatment of Talarico and Paxton isn't theological. It's tribal. Love is obedience, not an optional add-on. Kindness and humility aren't the soft edges of the faith. They're the point. The Pew data draws the line clearly. Most Americans are open to religion's influence in their lives. Nearly eight in ten say churches shouldn't endorse candidates. People know the difference between faith and partisanship. Links and Resources Pew Research: pewresearch.org Grateful to our friends at The Democracy Group: www.democracygroup.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Horse hockey has a theological address, and this episode found it.

She's a Republican who won't back Trump, and she has no interest in yelling — just winning. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Susan Del Percio is a crisis communications expert, political analyst, and MS NOW columnist who has publicly opposed Trump since 2015. Corey and Susan dig into the Texas Senate race, how vulnerable Republicans navigate a MAGA world, what polls actually tell you, and why listening might be the most radical political act left. Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen:  lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Threading the needle in 2026. Vulnerable Republicans need MAGA voters to turn out and independents to cross over. The playbook: show up with Trump once, deliver locally, and pick your fights carefully. Don't take the bait. Susan's advice for James Talarico: ignore the culture-war attacks and make every answer about the economy. Gas prices, cost of goods, cost of doing business. Nothing else. What polls actually tell you. They're snapshots, not predictions. Susan ignores the horse race and looks for trends and cross-tabs — specifically, who's gettable. Respecting the office. Susan called Trump a piece of garbage on air and has never forgiven herself. Not because she supports him — because the office demands a baseline the person in it doesn't. Just listen. Stop preparing your rebuttal long enough to hear what someone is actually saying. Then ask why. It costs nothing. About Our Guest Susan Del Percio is a crisis communications expert and political analyst for MS NOW. A lifelong Republican, she has publicly opposed Donald Trump since 2015 and previously served in both the Giuliani and Cuomo administrations. Links and Resources Follow Susan: x.com/DelPercioS Latest on MS NOW: www.ms.now/opinion/trump-republicans-irs-settlement-lawfare-polling-distraction-budget Grateful to our friends at The Democracy Group: www.democracygroup.org Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Clarity, charity, and conviction can live in the same room. Yes, really.

In 2024, just 18% of Americans said religion is gaining influence. Then came the double-digit jump. Pew Research's Chip Rotolo has the numbers — and they're striking. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Chip Rotolo is a research associate at Pew Research Center studying religion's role in public life. His team's latest report finds a sharp reversal in how Americans view religion's influence — and raises harder questions about Christian nationalism, what "Christian values" actually means to different people, and why the data looks so different depending on which party you ask. Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways A genuine vibe shift. After hitting an all-time low in 2024, the share of Americans who say religion is gaining influence has jumped sharply — now matching levels last seen in 2002. Christian nationalism is contested territory. Pew doesn't label anyone a Christian nationalist, but the questions associated with those views consistently land around 15% of Americans — while a much larger share wants Christian values to play some role in public life. Party drives everything. On nearly every question in this survey, the most striking splits are by political affiliation, not religion. How you ask matters as much as what you ask. Question wording, sequence, and consistency over time are what make trend data trustworthy — and Chip pulls back the curtain on how Pew gets that right. About Chip Rotolo Chip Rotolo is a research associate at Pew Research Center, where he studies religion's role in public life, religious engagement over time, and the intersection of religion and politics. He holds a PhD in sociology from Notre Dame, an MDiv from Princeton Theological Seminary, and a BA from UNC Chapel Hill. Links and Resources Pew Research Center: pewresearch.org Chip on Instagram: @chip.rotolo Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok The data has opinions. So does God. Turns out, so do we.

Originally aired in January, back by popular demand. Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion What happens when a nation debates whether it has a moral obligation to intervene in the suffering of others — and who gets to decide? Corey is joined by Pulitzer Prize–finalist historian and bestselling author H.W. Brands, Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin, to explore the moral, political, and human tensions behind one of the most consequential debates in American history. The conversation centers on Professor Brands’ latest book, America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War, which examines the clash between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Charles Lindbergh as the United States wrestled with whether to enter World War II — and what role America should play in the world. Professor Brands unpacks how personal biography shapes public history, introducing his framework of “big history” and “little history” — the intersection between sweeping geopolitical forces and the intimate human decisions that quietly steer them. From Lindbergh’s unlikely rise as a celebrity political figure to Roosevelt’s strategic ambiguity and political maneuvering, the discussion reveals how persuasion, fear, power, and moral reasoning collide in moments of national consequence. Corey and Dr. Brands explore the ethical tension at the heart of American leadership: When does power create responsibility? Is it moral for leaders to deceive in pursuit of what they believe is the greater good? How should a nation weigh human suffering abroad against the risks borne by its own citizens? The conversation also examines Lindbergh’s controversial views on race, antisemitism, and isolationism — resisting caricature while reckoning honestly with their implications.  Along the way, Brands reflects on his craft as a historian — how he uses diaries, speeches, correspondence, and press transcripts to reconstruct interior lives while remaining faithful to documented sources — and why narrative storytelling remains essential to understanding political power and human choice. The episode closes by turning forward: What questions should we be asking now that future historians will use to understand our moment? How should Americans grapple with a changing global balance of power, rising geopolitical instability, and the enduring tension between national interest and moral responsibility? Calls to Action ✅ If this episode resonates, consider sharing it with someone who might need a reminder that disagreement doesn’t have to mean dehumanization. ✅ Check out our Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion About Our Guest H.W. Brands holds the Jack S. Blanton Sr. Chair in History at the University of Texas at Austin and is the author of numerous acclaimed histories and biographies, including Founding Partisans, The First American, Traitor to His Class, and America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War. Two of his biographies were finalists for the Pulitzer Prize. Brands writes regularly on Substack at hwbrands.substack.com, where he publishes A User’s Guide to History. His forthcoming biography of George Washington, American Patriarch, will be released this spring. Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials... Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group Talking across differences doesn’t require agreement; it requires courage, curiosity, and the willingness to stay human.

Two minutes. Real impact. Leave a review: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion What if the outrage itself is the addiction? In this solo episode, Corey Nathan draws on scripture, neuroscience, Dr. Seuss, and two very personal stories to ask a harder question than who’s right: are we more hooked on the fight than committed to what the fight is supposed to be about? From a son’s vaccine hesitancy to a buddy who loves Pete Hegseth, Corey makes the case that the heavy lift of staying in the room with people we deeply disagree with isn’t just good manners. It’s the whole ballgame. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group Hard conversations, conducted with honesty and care. That’s the whole project.

“Often predictions try to pass as descriptions of the world or facts when actually they are something like power plays in disguise.” — Carissa Véliz Reviews are the lifeblood of independent podcasts. If TP&R belongs in more people's ears, here's how you make that happen: Apple Podcasts: Rate & Review on Apple Spotify: Rate on Spotify When a tech executive declares that AI will transform everything, are they describing the future, or commanding it? Carissa Véliz, Associate Professor at Oxford’s Institute for Ethics in AI, argues that prophecy and prediction have always been instruments of power, from the Oracle of Delphi to the algorithm in your pocket. In her new book Prophecy, she traces how surveillance and prediction became the twin original sins of digital technology, why predictions are never facts, and what philosophy offers as an antidote. It’s a conversation that is as timely as it is ancient. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: lovethepodcast.com/politicsandreligion ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Predictions are never facts. They can be educated guesses, wishful thinking, warnings, or veiled commands — but the future is unwritten. The moment someone presents a prediction as inevitable, that’s a signal worth interrogating. Surveillance and prediction are the two original sins of digital tech. They work in sync: data is gathered to predict behavior, and prediction is used to influence it. The pattern is ancient — a lion watches its prey before it hunts — and the data economy runs on the same logic. AI is the ultimate prediction machine. Machine learning does one thing: project patterns from past data onto an unknown future. The big assumption baked into every model is that the past looks like what’s coming. It often doesn’t. Philosophy arose as an antidote to prophecy. Ancient Greece was obsessed with divination. Philosophy was the countermovement — grounded in facts and logic rather than manipulation. That critical stance is exactly what we need now when tech executives make proclamations that get reported as news. Predictions about people are different from predictions about things. When you predict rain, the clouds are unbothered. When you predict a person’s failure, you shape their fate. Carissa’s call: when predictions about human beings are necessary, make them at the population level, not the individual. Increase your serendipity. The more we let algorithms decide what to watch, who to meet, and what to read, the more constrained we become. Talking to strangers, reading widely, and taking a walk without a destination are small acts of resistance with real consequences. About Our Guest Carissa Véliz is a writer, keynote speaker, and Associate Professor at the Institute for Ethics in AI at the University of Oxford. Her work spans AI ethics, privacy, business ethics, and public policy. She advises companies and governments around the world, serves on the board of the Proton Foundation, and is a member of UNESCO’s Women for Ethical AI. She is the author of Privacy Is Power and her new book Prophecy. Her TED Talk, Beware the Power of Prediction, is available on YouTube. Links and Resources Prophecy — www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/759692/prophecy-by-carissa-veliz/ TED Talk: Beware the Power of Prediction (YouTube): www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4wHmKtH-Q Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group The future is unwritten. How we get there is up to us.

Sometimes you're in a room full of people you love — and all you can hear is the wind. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. This episode is a solo one — no guest, no debate, no conversation across political or religious difference. Just Corey, a piece he wrote in the middle of some darkness, and the motorcycle he never really got off. "A Thousand Miles Away" is an essay about Bipolar disorder, about the particular loneliness of being a million miles from the world even when your body is present in it, and about the cultural and religious messages that told him to keep his mouth shut about all of it. It's also about what has helped — meditation, neuroplasticity, and the odd grace of still being on the road. The full essay is on Corey's Substack. If it lands for you — or for someone you love — he'd be glad to hear from you. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ If you or someone you know is struggling, the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline is available 24/7. Call or text 988. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways The aloneness isn't metaphor. Being a thousand miles away while your body moves through an ordinary day — brushing teeth, running meetings, cleaning the kitchen — is a specific, describable experience. Naming it matters. "What do you have to be depressed about?" is the wrong question. Suffering doesn't have an income threshold. The cultural reflex of tallying someone's blessings in response to their pain doesn't help. It silences. Religious communities can do real harm here. The diagnosis of "a sin issue, not a depression issue" is a failure of pastoral care with real consequences. Faith and mental health are not competing explanations. Practices matter. Meditation, neuroplasticity, building new neural pathways — these aren't cures, but they shift the ratio. More good seasons than bad is worth something. Shared memory runs deep. The weight of inherited trauma — pogroms, displacement, the unspoken cost of survival — shapes how families receive (or refuse to receive) a descendant's pain. That inheritance is real, even when it's used against you. Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for our ongoing partnership. Proud members of The Democracy Group Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Civic life starts with showing up. Sometimes that's enough — just staying on the road.

Some kids from Jersey go down the Shore. Tom Mangine went to West Point, then to the Balkans, then Haiti, then Africa, then Chile — and somehow managed to be on the ground every time history got loud.   Reviews are the lifeblood of independent podcasts. If TP&R belongs in more people's ears, here's how you make that happen: Apple Podcasts: Rate & Review on Apple Spotify: Rate on Spotify   Thomas Mangine grew up in Manalapan, New Jersey — Springsteen country — and went on to spend three decades doing work most of us only encounter in spy thrillers. A West Point graduate, U.S. Army officer, intelligence professional, and financial crimes investigator, Tom has worked across six continents and visited 87 countries. He has tracked money for terrorists, investigated organ trafficking and corruption in professional sports, advised major financial institutions on predictive compliance, and taught financial crime investigation to military and civilian professionals across dozens of countries. He is a certified instructor with both the Association of Certified Financial Crime Specialists (ACFCS) and the Association of Certified Anti-Money Laundering Specialists (ACAMS).   This one’s a little different. Tom is a high school buddy, and we hit record in the middle of a conversation that had already started. What followed was nearly two hours of stories, insights, and the kind of frank talk you only get from someone who has no reason to perform for a camera.   Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion   Key Takeaways From Manalapan to the world’s pressure points. Growing up in a central Jersey town full of World War II veterans, Holocaust survivors’ grandchildren, and teachers who took their students seriously shaped Tom’s sense of civic obligation well before West Point entered the picture. The community you grow up in sets the frame for what you think is worth doing.   Arabic, Kuwait, and the value of obscure skills. Tom chose to study Arabic at West Point when almost no one else was. Within a year, Saddam Hussein had invaded Kuwait and suddenly everyone wanted to know who spoke Arabic. The lesson: depth in an unfashionable area compounds.   What George H.W. Bush actually understood. Tom’s instructor at West Point, Colonel Richard Augustus Norton — a Vietnam vet who had also served in Lebanon and learned both Farsi and Arabic — explained to his cadets exactly why the first Bush did not drive to Baghdad. Occupying it would have meant a decade of entanglement. A decade later, Tom watched those predictions come true in real time.   Learn what normal looks like before you can spot abnormal. From a South African tracker teaching Tom to read an empty watering hole as a threat indicator, to Secret Service agents training currency detection by feel rather than scanner, to teaching financial crime investigators to recognize patterns before they see violations — this is a through-line of Tom’s entire career.   Predictive compliance versus retroactive compliance. When Tom moved into the private sector at the Bank of Montreal, his boss Andy Hoffman wanted something the financial industry rarely did: get ahead of problems instead of responding to them. Tom’s military intelligence background — built on anticipating failure before it happens — turned out to be exactly the right preparation.   Bureaucracies eat good work. Tom spent two years writing threat assessments in Haiti, working 90-hour weeks, only to have a naval vessel show up with a 2003 report because his updates had been lost in the system. The same pattern repeated across Afghanistan, Ukraine, Belarus, and elsewhere. Institutional memory is not a given. Someone has to fight for it.   Being open to learning is harder than it sounds. Tom has trained professionals ranging from 20 to 55 years old across dozens of countries. The single hardest thing to teach is not technical knowledge. It is the willingness to actually revise what you already believe.   About Our Guest Thomas J. Mangine is a West Point graduate, retired U.S. Army officer, and financial crimes and risk management expert with three decades of experience across the military, diplomatic, and private sectors. He has deployed to Bosnia, Haiti, Africa, Chile, and beyond, and has trained financial crime investigators and national security professionals in dozens of countries. He is a certified instructor with ACFCS and ACAMS.   Links and Resources Connect with Tom on LinkedIn: Thomas J. Mangine Association of Certified Financial Crime Specialists (ACFCS): acfcs.org Association of Certified Anti-Money Laundering Specialists (ACAMS): acams.org Joint Special Operations University (JSOU): jsou.edu   Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group   Jersey produces fighters, dreamers, and people who show up. Tom Mangine is proof. Now go talk some politics and religion with gentleness and respect.

"Saying the pledge now isn't capitulation. It's repossession." Reviews are the lifeblood of independent podcasts. If TP&R belongs in more people's ears, here's how you make that happen: Apple Podcasts: Rate & Review on Apple Spotify: Rate on Spotify For 15 years, Corey stood during the Pledge of Allegiance without putting his hand on his heart or saying the words. It wasn't apathy, and it wasn't a performance. It was a conviction, rooted in Scripture and a genuine question: is this a pledge I can actually make? Then something shifted. In this solo episode, Corey traces the journey from that first awkward moment of awareness at a local business meeting, through the Book of Daniel, to a spring morning in 2026 — and explains why starting to say the pledge again isn't a concession to anyone. It's a reclamation. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Ritual deserves examination. Standing and reciting from muscle memory is different from making a conscious pledge. The distinction matters. The flag and the republic are not the same thing. One can be weaponized; the other is the idea worth pledging to. Corey's return to the pledge came from finally separating the two. January 6th is not an abstraction. Men with the flag draped across their backs as a cape, the pole weaponized against police officers — those are photographs of specific people committing a specific desecration. That image clarified something. Reclamation, not capitulation. Words like conservative, Christian, liberty, and freedom have been sloganized and shouted as weapons. They belong to a tradition, not to the people who've hijacked them. Same goes for the pledge. The grammar of the pledge matters. Read without the unwritten, hypnotic pauses, the pledge isn't to a flag. It's to the republic for which the flag stands. That's a pledge worth making. Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Go talk some politics and religion. With gentleness and respect.

“For Jefferson, Hamilton is not a hated enemy to be opposed or destroyed, but a respected adversary to be debated with. And that is the spirit we have to get back to today.” — Jeffrey Rosen Jeffrey Rosen is one of the most respected constitutional scholars in America — CEO Emeritus of the National Constitution Center, professor of law at George Washington University Law School, contributing editor at The Atlantic, and the author of nine books, including the New York Times bestsellers The Pursuit of Happiness and The Pursuit of Liberty. In this conversation, Rosen traces the Hamilton–Jefferson rivalry from the founding era to the Roberts Court, asks whether the current administration looks more like Caesar or Andrew Jackson, makes the case that deep reading may be the last best hope for democracy, and previews his forthcoming biography of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. It is the kind of conversation that reminds you what civic discourse, at its best, can actually look like. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways Caesar or Jackson? Rosen frames the central question about the current administration: is this a Caesar who subverts the separation of powers and rules by whim rather than law, or a Jackson-style populist who attacks elites and large institutions but ultimately operates within the constitutional system? The distinction, Rosen argues, matters enormously. The Hamilton–Jefferson divide is still very much alive. The debate between liberal and strict construction of the Constitution did not begin with originalism. It began with the bank. Hamilton argued Congress could imply powers beyond what’s enumerated; Jefferson said no. John Marshall sided with Hamilton, and that fault line runs directly through today’s Supreme Court. The pursuit of happiness meant something very different to the Founders. For Jefferson, Madison, and their classical sources, happiness was not about feeling good. It was about being good — cultivating temperance, prudence, courage, and justice, and using reason to moderate unproductive emotions like anger, envy, and fear. Social media is Madison’s nightmare. Madison designed a system of deliberative slowness. Social media’s “enraged to engage” business model is the precise opposite. Rosen adds that AI compounds the problem by presenting a single probabilistic version of truth rather than fostering the clash of competing ideas that the Enlightenment depended on. Brandeis offers a way out of the left–right impasse. Suspicious of both big government and big business, and committed to industrial democracy and worker ownership, Louis Brandeis remains the historical figure who most persuasively bridges the divide between libertarians and progressives. Opposed in life as in death. Hamilton and Jefferson spent careers savaging each other. Yet after Hamilton’s death, Jefferson placed a bust of Hamilton across from his own at Monticello. That image — honored adversaries, not enemies — is the model Rosen believes the country desperately needs to recover. About Our Guest Jeffrey Rosen is President and CEO Emeritus of the National Constitution Center, a professor of law at George Washington University Law School, and a contributing editor at The Atlantic. He is the author of nine books, including The Pursuit of Happiness, The Pursuit of Liberty, and Louis D. Brandeis: American Prophet. His essays and commentary have appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine, The New Republic, and on NPR. He also served as an advisor for Ken Burns’ The American Revolution on PBS. His forthcoming biography of Ruth Bader Ginsburg is part of the Yale Jewish Lives series. Links and Resources National Constitution Center - constitutioncenter.org GW Law - www.law.gwu.edu Jeffrey Rosen on X - @RosenJeffrey Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group Now go talk some politics and religion — with gentleness and respect.

Most of us are going to be disappointed. The question is whether that disappointment has to mean paralysis. Corey Nathan recently joined Michael Baranowski on The Politics Guys for a conversation that refuses to offer easy comfort or easy despair. The 2026 midterms are the jumping-off point: what's likely, what's actually at stake, and whether a Democratic wave would change much of anything. But the conversation goes deeper than the electoral map. Structural incentives, uncompetitive districts, the filibuster, the parliamentary rulebook, and the question of where, if anywhere, the green shoots of real democratic renewal are actually growing. This feed drop brings that conversation to the TP&R audience. Calls to Action ✅ If this conversation resonates, consider sharing it with someone who believes connection across difference still matters. ✅ Subscribe to Corey’s Substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Subscribe to Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion Key Takeaways The wave may come, but the players mostly stay the same. Structural analysis of the 2026 midterms suggests Democrats have a strong shot at the House and an outside chance at the Senate. But more than 90% of incumbents survive any given cycle, so even a wave election doesn't reset the cast of characters or their incentives. Investigations matter, but so does whether Congress actually does its job. A Democratic House would have subpoena power and majority-staffed committees. The more important question is whether that translates into substantive accountability or just performance. Competitive elections have made compromise harder, not easier. When one party holds power for decades at a stretch, half a loaf looks good. When every election is winnable, the incentive shifts to demonization and the next cycle. The hyper-competitive era since 1994 has structural roots that don't vanish with a change in majority. The green shoots are at the state and local level. Cross-partisan collaboration is visible in places like Santa Clarita, where a Republican city council member and a Democratic congressman are working together on local infrastructure. Organizations like Future Caucus are documenting exactly this kind of millennial and Gen Z cross-partisan energy. One conversation at a time is not a consolation prize. Incremental, constitutionally grounded change is not a failure of ambition. It is, as Corey puts it, what the founders actually promised future generations. The broccoli booth in the candy store still matters. About Michael Baranowski and The Politics Guys Michael Baranowski is a political scientist and the host of The Politics Guys, a podcast committed to honest, nonpartisan political analysis. He brings an institutionalist's eye to American politics and a refreshing willingness to follow the evidence wherever it leads, including to conclusions neither side particularly wants to hear. Links and Resources The Politics Guys - politicsguys.com The Context Podcast - kettering.org/thecontext Connect on Social Media Corey is @coreysnathan on all the socials… Substack LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Twitter Threads Bluesky TikTok Thanks to our Sponsors and Partners Thanks to Pew Research Center (pewresearch.org) for making today’s conversation possible. Proud members of The Democracy Group Democracy is not a spectator sport.

What a highlight it was for us to have two of our favorite guests of TP&R, Pete Wehner and Jonathan Rauch, on together to give tribute to Tim Keller and Michael Gerson.   Tim Keller and Michael Gerson were both at the top of the list of guests we wanted to have on TP&R. Sadly we lost both gentlemen within the last year. Mike passed away last November and Tim died in May of this year. But we’re lucky to have Jonathan Rauch and Pete Wehner for this conversation because they were all friends and had a big impact on each other’s lives.   Timothy Keller was senior pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan. As Sam Roberts described him in The New York Times, Tim was "...a best-selling author and theorist of Christianity who performed a modern miracle of his own — establishing a theologically orthodox church in Manhattan that attracted thousands of young professional followers..."   Michael Gerson was a nationally syndicated columnist writing for The Washington Post from 2007 until his death on Nov. 17, 2022. He was the author of HEROIC CONSERVATISM and co-author of CITY OF MAN: RELIGION AND POLITICS IN A NEW ERA. He appeared regularly on the “PBS NewsHour,” “Face the Nation” and other programs. Gerson served as senior adviser at One, a bipartisan organization dedicated to the fight against extreme poverty and preventable diseases. Until 2006, Gerson was a top aide to President George W. Bush as assistant to the president for policy and strategic planning. Prior to that appointment, he served in the White House as assistant to the president for speechwriting, policy adviser, deputy assistant to the president and director of presidential speechwriting.   Jonathan Rauch is the author of numerous books including THE CONSTITUTION OF KNOWLEDGE: A DEFENSE OF TRUTH. He’s a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic among other publications.   Pete Wehner is also a contributing writer at The Atlantic as well as The New York Times, he’s a senior fellow at the Trinity Forum and the author of several books including THE DEATH OF POLITICS: HOW TO HEAL OUR FRAYED REPUBLIC AFTER TRUMP.   Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other is part of The Democracy Group, a network of podcasts that examines what’s broken in our democracy and how we can work together to fix it.   Please support our wonderful sponsor Meza Wealth Management:  https://www.mezawealth.com/   And you can find Corey on all the socials @coreysnathan such as www.threads.net/@coreysnathan.   www.ttf.org/about-us/senior-fellows/peterwehner/   www.jonathanrauch.com/   www.democracygroup.org/shows/talkin-politics-religion