The Best Friend Project

When Kristy met Anne, she knew her new friend had a failing heart. She would most likely die without a heart transplant. Not a lot of people would rush into a friendship with someone who might not be around long, but those would be people who didn't know Anne. Kristy says she was almost impossible not to be her friend.Which only made it harder as Anne grew sicker. She desperately needed a heart and almost didn't qualify for the transplant list because she didn't have family living nearby to support her recovery.But she had her friends.This is a story about the family we choose, the lengths we'll go to keep someone we love here, and what it means to be a good friend when you know you can't keep them forever.Plus: Anne was a passionate advocate for organ donation. Stay through the end for a simple way you can potentially help save someone else's Anne.Connect with Go Red for Women on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/goredforwomen?stkn=MXYxOTV0ZHpvcWE4cA==), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/GoRedWomen/) & Their Website (https://www.goredforwomen.org/en/)Connect with The American Heart Association on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/american_heart/?hl=en), Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/AmericanHeart/) & Their Website (https://www.heart.org/)To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co. While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the Friendship Survey (https://thebestfriendproject.co/signup). We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thebest_friendproject/) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/TheBestFriendProject)(we will follow you back!) If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected] this episode:- The friend who pulled everyone into her universe- When friends became family- What happens when friendship becomes caregiving?- “She was just my person.”- The decision Kristy was “never more proud of her” for making- Living—and dying—on her own terms- One last home-renovation decision- One final, perfectly Anne sendoff- What Anne taught Kristy about being a friendChapters:00:00 — Cold Open1:13 — Would You Let Yourself Love Someone You Know You Could Lose?04:17 — A Jigsaw, Jackie O Sunglasses & an Ordinary Monday Night10:24 — “I Have a Family. They Just Aren’t Related to Me.”16:21 — “She Was Just My Person”21:16 — When Caregiving Starts to Bury the Friendship32:31 — “That’s It. I’m Done.”37:29 — “Let’s Do What You Want”42:54 — “I Don’t Like Your Countertops”44:43 — All Her People Were There46:47 — “The Greatest Honor of My Life Was to Walk Her Home”58:30 — OutroComing Next Week:Brenda and Kimberly met nearly 40 years ago because Brenda was going to fight Kimberly. What came out of that moment was one of the most fascinating friendships I’ve ever encountered—a story involving a knife, the police, and four decades of friendship. You’ll have to hear this one for yourself.Support the show

So, what happened? Did Barb call the old friend she hadn't talked to in years? Has her neighbor FKABF (formerly known as Best Friend) heard the episode? And what was it like for Barb to hear that incredibly real, still raw conversation between us. Find out all of this on this episode of On The Phone where we call the guest from this week to see what they thought about their episode of The Best Friend Project. If you haven't yet taken The Best Friend Project survey, you can do so at https://thebestfriendproject.co/signup/Follow The Best Friend Project at https://thebestfriendproject.co/Support the show

By age 68, you’d think friendship drama would be behind you. For Barb, it wasn’t. And what she learned from a painful friendship breakup could help all of us think differently about friendship and loneliness as we age.After years of close friendship, a seemingly simple misunderstanding created a divide between Barb and her best friend. She was devastated and confused. And to make matters worse, they were neighbors.In this conversation, Rachel presses Barb to look beyond what happened and consider why it happened. Together, they explore grief, friendship, self-protection and the assumptions we make about the people closest to us, leading Barb to consider something she hadn’t in four years.It’s a conversation about friendship at an age we don’t talk about nearly enough—and an epiphany you’ll want to hear for yourself.If you are a younger listener, consider sharing this episode with your mom. Talk about it together. You might learn things about her, and about her friendships that could bring you even closer. Support the show

What happened after the episode? The one where Ali talks openly about her biggest hater being the one who birthed her. Where I disclose a disconnect between me and my own mother that just might explain the gap that prevents me from trusting?Find out on this episode of On The Phone with Ali Lohman. This is the bonus content from The Best Friend Project, where I call the guest from this week to ask them about their episode, reflect and share. If you haven't yet taken The Best Friend Project survey, you can do so here. Follow Ali Lohman at https://www.instagram.com/ali.lohman/Follow The Best Friend Project at https://thebestfriendproject.co/Support the show

“My biggest hater gave birth to me.”When I came across Ali Lohman's Instagram posts about the years she spent trying not to go no contact with her mother, I knew I wanted to have this conversation. Research from The Best Friend Project suggests a strong connection between trust in our mothers and our ability to build healthy adult friendships. In this episode, Ali and I talk about mother wounds, breaking generational cycles, trust, and the ways childhood experiences continue to shape us long after we've left home. Along the way, I uncover a possible reason I've struggled to feel the sense of sisterhood and safety I've been searching for. As Ali told me, "That's how you get to sisterhood. You just share."Connect with Ali Lohman on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/Ali.lohman) and TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@ali.lohman)To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the Friendship Survey (https://thebestfriendproject.co/signup). We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thebest_friendproject/) and Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/TheBestFriendProject)(we will follow you back!) If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected] this episode:- Why comparing trauma can keep us from telling our own stories- Ali’s decision to break the cycle with her daughter- Packing everything into a trailer and starting over- How childhood wounds can quietly show up decades later in friendships- Why Rachel believes she sabotaged a friendship she desperately wanted- Ali’s approach to boundaries, loyalty, and friendship breakups- The vulnerability Rachel believes has been missing from her friendships- A simple lesson from Ali: “That’s how you get to sisterhood. You just share.”Chapters:01:15 — "My Biggest Hater Gave Birth to Me"05:03 — The Mother Who Never Protected Ali10:20 — Becoming the Mother She Never Had17:35 — How She Broke the Cycle22:01 — Leaving Home to Start Over26:00 — Packing a Trailer & Driving Across Canada27:24 — Building a New Life—and New Friendships29:29 — How Our Mothers Shape Our Friendships32:27 — Loyalty, Trust & Friendship Breakups36:37 — Knowing When It's Time to Walk Away39:20 — What Real Friendship Actually Looks Like41:06 — Rachel Opens Up: Why I Can't Cry43:55 — The Wounds We Carry Into Every Relationship44:46 — Can a Broken Friendship Ever Heal?46:33 — Breaking the Cycle Together47:23 — Apologies, Accountability & Moving Forward49:29 — "That's How You Get to Sisterhood"Coming Next WeekRachel talks with Barb. Barb is 69 years old, and she’s dealing with a friendship breakup that has rocked her world—even four years later. She never thought she’d still be dealing with this kind of heartbreak at 69. But what makes it even harder? Her former best friend is also her immediate neighbor.Support the show

What did Jackie's former coach think of Jackie's comments? Find out as we hop On The Phone with our guest to hear her reaction, her experience with Jackie, spotting friendships as a coach, and much more.Stay in touch with Jackie Kashian by following the links below:YouTube: https://youtube.com/@jackie_kashianInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/jackiekashianFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/JackieKashianJokesmith/WebsiteSupport the showSupport the show

"In the end, I don't know that we were friends at all."Jackie Kashian is known for being funny. Really funny. But in this conversation, we get to know the woman behind the comedy as she shares her experiences with friendship, and how her own family influenced her social life, or lack thereof. Jackie opens up about her journey to making friends and the people who helped her understand how to truly connect with others, on stage and off. One of the most surprising stories takes us back to high school, when her track coach told her to "put the book down." What followed was a lesson about friendship that Jackie says "saved her life."About JackieJackie Kashian is a nationally touring stand-up comedian who has appeared on Conan, After Midnight, The Late Late Show with James Corden, HBO, Netflix, Comedy Central, and Dropout TV, and has been heard on NPR, Audible, and as a voice actor on Bob's Burgers and Strange Planet. Her latest comedy special, Alter-Kashian, was named by The New York Times as one of the year's five best comedy specials. She also hosts the long-running podcasts The Dork Forest and The Jackie and Laurie Show.In this episode:- Jackie’s experiences—or lack of them—with friendship growing up- The coach who taught Jackie how friendship actually works- The danger of “compare and despair”- What happens when one best friend becomes your only best friend- Jackie’s experience losing an intense friendship- One unforgettable piece of advice from Jackie’s stepmotherConnect with Jackie Kashian on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTokTo learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]:00 – Introduction02:49 – Being a Woman in Stand-Up Comedy10:30 – “I Had No Friends as a Child”11:29 – ***The Coach Who Taught Jackie How to Make Friends***15:48 – Learning How to Accept Friendship23:02 – Do Women Really Tear Other Women Down?24:38 – Mother Trust, Betrayal & the Best Friend Breakup32:11 – “In the End, I Don’t Know That We Were Friends at All”36:31 – What Gone With The Wind has to do with The Best Friend Project41:10 – 20 Years of Podcasting & The Dork Forest44:24 – Final ThoughtsComing Next WeekRachel talks with Allie, an adult who is now no contact with her mother, exploring what led to that decision and how that complicated relationship has affected her ability to make, maintain, and understand friendships.Content note: The conversation includes references to sexual abuse, violence, and domestic assault. Nothing is graphic, but listeners with sensitivity to these topics may want to skip this episode.Support the show

As I dig into my recent friendship break-up, I realized in order to understand "how I got here," I have had to go back and look at where I came from. On this episode of "On The Phone," I call up Paige Parranto, one of my oldest childhood friends, to ask her what she remembers of my house growing up. It sparked a memory for both of us. Paige describes sleeping on the floor of my parents' bedroom, because it was the only room in the house with a window air conditioner. The very same air conditioner that kept my parents from coming downstairs during countless wild keg parties I would have without them ever knowing.Hear more about this, and about the time just a few years ago when she and I met up with our other friend Emily Sellergren in San Diego. We had grand delusions of dressing up like Marilyn Monroe, only to end up looking like "sexy" (if you are blind) George Washingtons.Support the show

One text message ended my longest, closest friendship of 12 years. No fight. No warning. Just "Friendship with you is like death by 1,000 cuts." Then ghosted. Before I started the Best Friend Project, I was a private investigator and TV journalist, so when my closest friendship blew up I went into full decode mode. I had to figure out what I had done wrong throughout my life in my friendships. In this solo episode, I tell the real story behind the project, the wedding she skipped, the golf tournament that broke us, the months I spent putting postcards in bathroom stalls across the country, gathering data from hundreds of women as I tried to figure out how others find, make and keep their friends. This is not a tidy story. Nor one I am proud of. I own my part in it too.Mentioned in This EpisodeHow one text obliterated a friendshipWhat does Reese Witherspoon’s Instagram post have to do with all of thisThe Cry-Fecta of an empty nest, best friend break up and a move to DallasAlso weddings are hard on friendships, I am rightTo learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While there, take the Friendship Survey and discover your Friendship Archetype. I'd also love to stay in touch, come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook I'll follow you back! (That's what friends do!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]:00:00 Introduction to Rachel and The Best Friend Project 02:03 Rachel's personal story of friendship breakup and its impact03:45 The research and survey process behind The Best Friend Project 04:51 Aftermath of the friendship fallout and the backstory11:47 The emotional toll of friendship fallout and mental health effects17:33 The story of how Reese Witherspoon inspired The Best Friend Project21:47 How sharing stories helps heal and build understanding27:45 Rachel's reflections on her friendship journey and lessons learned34:00 Moving forward: hopes for better friendships and self-improvementTease next week:Comedian Jackie Kashian joins the show to talk about being one of the only women on the lineup in a world of male comics, and why women in competitive spaces can be harder on each other than men are.Support the show

What did Donielle think after hearing her story? Find out as we hop On The Phone with our guest to hear her reaction, answer listener questions, and respond to your comments and feedback.For more information about The Modern Widows Club or grab tickets to their upcoming virtual event, click HERE.Stay in touch with The Grief Disruptor, Donielle Young by following the links below:YouTubeInstagramFacebookWebsiteSupport the show

How to be a friend, to yourself and others, when you don't even know who you are anymore. Because grief permanently altered your identity. As Donielle shares it can be really hard to recognized who your friends are anymore. "Didn't I lose enough? My husband died, and now my so-called friends are judging the way I grieve?" On today’s episode of the Best Friend Project Podcast, we meet Donielle Young, who lost her husband Dwayne to stage four colon cancer at 47, leaving her with a teenage son at home and very little emotional support. In her struggle, she found a space to rebuild herself as The Grief Disruptor, creating The G3 framework (grief, grit, glow up) around the part nobody wants to talk about, how to get to know the new you, when death has changed you. Old you could show up to brunch and be present. New you looks the same on the outside, but you can't sit there and hear normal conversations about husbands traveling or not helping with the dishes after your husband has died. Donielle knew some of her friends were judging her, she didn't realize all of them were. She talks candidly about about the day when one of her closest friends admitted she had judged the way Donielle grieved. And she names what friends get wrong most, talks about the importance of week three. The casseroles stop but the grief doesn't.In This Episode Being judged for how you grieveLosing your identity and creating a new oneAuditing your peopleHow friends can fumble supporting each other Connect with Donielle Young on Instagram,  Facebook, TikTok, and LinkedIn To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 00:00 Cold open00:52 Welcome to The Best Friend Project02:05 Meet Donielle Young, The Grief Disruptor02:20 Who Dwayne was03:00 A stage four diagnosis in 202004:10 How Rachel and Donielle found each other05:00 Losing your identity, not just your person07:50 The friend who admitted she judged her10:00 "It's none of my business who's judging me"12:40 Why G3 is a framework and not a blueprint16:40 Were her friends surprised?19:50 What Dwayne would say to her today21:20 What to say to a grieving friend23:20 Show up later, because grief isn't the flu26:00 Rachel's confession about the text she didn't send30:40 The relative who disappeared34:20 Auditing your people, explained36:00 VIP or general admission41:20 Historical friends and what the survey found45:40 Colon cancer, screening, and why women have to lead53:40 The friends who showed up: Tina, Ruth, and Kenya55:40 Her son, and what he told the counselor57:00 Rachel's closing reflectionSupport the show

Hopping On The Phone with Jen Cote from episode 14, where we talk Friendship and Menopause. On this call Jen corrects a misspeak, shares a text from her friend and asks Rachel the question she has been getting a lot lately, "Have you talked to your friend."Thank you for listening!Support the show

Menopause is a chemical castration that feels like it is wrecking your body and mind. So how do friendships survive it?Our original research says women need friends who make them feel safe, who remember the small things, and don't cancel. All of which isn't humanly possible during menopause. (Not for nothing, my former best friend and I were both in it when our friendship ended. I mean, could be something to that?)  On this episode of The Best Friend Project you will meet Jen Cote and Margaret Honda. Friends since middle school who wrote the hilariously witty The Hormonal Hangover Society book about menopause. We talk friendship, writing, melting and more.In this episode:Friendship gives, and menopause takes. How do we survive it?- Women shrinking. Why do we apologize for bold moves?- How Jen and Margaret have stayed friends for 40+ years through breakups, kids, and bad haircuts- Co-authoring with your best friend, and why humor was the only way through it- Jen's answer to the question “What happens when you can't be the glue anymore?”- And what's Reese Witherspoon have to do with all of this anyway?Connect with Jen and Marg: Instagram @hormonal_hangover , Facebook,  and LinkedInWebsiteTo learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 00:00 We don't have the energy to keep begging the group to get together 00:45 Welcome to The Best Friend Project 01:20 Meet Jen Cote and Margaret Honda 02:20 The Reese Witherspoon event, and the woman on a mission 04:35 "Edit your friends" and the letter I wrote about it 05:40 Cutting the line and handing it over 07:45 Why we apologize for our own baller moves 09:15 The book nobody thinks they want to read 11:00 Senile vaginitis and the naming problem 12:20 Our mothers never modeled this for us 14:15 The question at the heart of this episode 16:00 "I can't be the glue all the time" 16:45 Did menopause end my friendship? 19:30 Venting, commiserating, and hijacking the story 23:10 The naked haddock incident 24:05 How do you have nine best friends? 26:15 Roles, thick skin, and knowing each other's trigger points 28:20 Annie, and the sleepovers that keep her here 30:35 Unreal upcoming events and the annual gala 32:35 What co-writing a book did to their friendship 36:30 Grace for the friendship you did not get to fix 38:15 Put the check-in in your phone 39:45 Where to find The Hormonal Hangover Society 40:50 Next week: Donielle Young, the grief disruptorSupport the show

How often have you heard "Tennyson, C.S. Lewis and Tig Nataro" in the same sentence? Well, if you listened to The Best Friend Project this week - you heard it twice! Get Mary's take on our talk in this episode of On The Phone. A 1990's style, kitchen wall phone with a long cord, conversation between two friends to catch up on her podcast episode comments, reflections and final thoughts on what she has learned about friendship from the dead. Follow @tipsfromdeadpeople, and @thebest_friendproject to stay in touch with both of us! (Look for a photo of us finally meeting on August 20th, 2026! Can't wait to see her in person. A fun side effect of starting a project about friendship has been the friends I have made along the way. Support the show

What will you be known for after you die? Your life is so much more than a resume. Will your legacy of kindness live on? Your grudges? Your struggle to forgive? Or will it be hating cold butter, loving salty chips and chive dip, and the time you saved a goat from drowning? The stories that live on are only the ones you dared to share, and the ones you told. Being known, and knowing others, might be the richest human experience there is. One that outlasts the physical, maybe even the spiritual. So why do so many of us hide our real self?Mary McGreevy runs Tips from Dead People, the account where she reads obituaries most of us would scroll past, and finds the ones that say something true. In this conversation, we talk about the value in exposing mistakes, leaving things messy, living our real true life. Mary walks through what she's learned about forgiveness from self-written obituaries, and we talk about the strange grief of a friendship that dies while both people are still alive, still out there, still not finding their way back to each other.In This Episode Being known and knowing may be the richest human experience there isThe stories that live on are the ones you dared to tell while you were hereSelf-written obituaries are often where the deepest forgiveness shows upA friendship can end, and still deserve its own honest reckoning, even while both people are alive to feel itAbout The Best Friend PodcastThe Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch. Come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected] with Mary McGreevy and @TipsFromDeadPeople on:Instagram, Facebook, and TiktokLinkedIn  Chapters: 00:00 Mary's theory about honest stories00:52 Welcome to The Best Friend Project01:20 Meet Mary McGreevy of Tips from Dead People02:20 The obituary that gave a best friend top billing04:15 Why the bends in the road belong in the story05:20 Scorched earth obituaries and the comments they get06:45 Forgiveness in self-written obituaries11:50 Bronnie Ware's regrets and the one nobody quotes13:15 The little things that turn out to be the big things16:20 What Mary's friends make of the work20:40 How reading obituaries changed how she lives24:10 Take that, LinkedIn: the herring factory woman28:20 Rachel's grandma, the joke, and the empty funeral31:20 Being the keeper of the stories33:40 Tennyson took 17 years to write it36:45 Can you write an obituary for a living friendship?41:10 Tig Notaro and the end of a friendship43:20 The loneliest grief nobody has a book for47:50 The narratives we tell ourselves to keep going48:40 Takeaway: let yourself be known49:40 Where to find Mary50:40 Rachel's reflection53:00 Next week: friendship and menopauseSupport the show

Unfortunately I wasn't able to actually record my On The Phone call with Robyn. However, I did have a painful epiphany in replaying her episode. Some high school ghosts have come to haunt... And I think I need to face them, at some point. Also note to self, holding a cell phone up to a microphone doesn't really work well. Live'n and learn'n - thanks for being here!Nest week hear an incredible conversation with Mary McGreevy from Tips from Dead People. What we learn about friendship from the dead is very interesting!Support the show

Every friendship has a story — and Robyn's started at a locker in ninth grade with a snap judgment she almost let cost her everything. In this episode of The Best Friend Project, host Rachel sits down with journal creator and author Robyn Liechti to talk about the girl she assumed was mean because she was pretty, and the 26-year best friendship that followed once she got out of her own head. Together, Rachel and Robyn dig into the loneliness epidemic and the $500 billion industry built around it, why society hands us language for romantic love but not platonic love, the Harvard happiness study linking long-term friendships to living longer, inconsistent effort and mismatched values as the top friendship pain points, being used as an alibi by a friend, why walking away quietly can be healthier than a blowout, and how Robyn turned grief over her grandmothers into 15,000+ self-published journals. If you have ever misjudged someone on sight, struggled with adult friendship, or wondered how to find, make, and keep friends as a woman over 30, this conversation is for you.In This EpisodeThe worst first impression that became a 26-year best friendshipThe friendship question almost no one asksIs ghosting easier than telling the truth?The secret to lifelong friendship? It might be adult sleepovers.Connect With RobynWebsite Instagram @robyn.liechtiTo learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 00:00 "I Assumed She Was Mean Because She Was Pretty"01:00 Welcome to The Best Friend Project02:00 How We Met: Trader Joe's Muffins in the Trash03:00 The Harvard Study on Friendship, Health & Longevity04:00 Loneliness Is Now a $500 Billion Industry05:00 Connected on Social Media, Still Disconnected06:00 What Taking the Friendship Survey Revealed07:00 Why We Never Ask New Friends About Their Friendship History08:00 The Locker Story: Grade Nine and a Snap Judgment09:00 Insecurities, Assumptions, and What We Almost Miss10:00 Different Lives, Same Best Friend: Toronto to the Country11:00 Adult Sleepovers and Why People Stop Having Them12:00 Friendship in Departments: Soccer Moms and One-on-Ones13:00 What It Means to Have "Enough" Friends14:00 Postcards in Bathrooms: 7,000 Miles of Survey Data15:00 The Five Friendship Archetypes and the Keystone16:00 The Skill You're So Good At You Don't Notice It17:00 From Losing Her Grandmothers to Her First Journal18:00 Seven Journals, a Kids' Book, and a Part-Time Job19:00 Picturing the Woman on the Other Side21:00 Stealth Mode: The Art of the Bathroom Postcard22:00 Why We Ghost Best Friends Instead of Talking23:00 Inconsistency: The #1 Friendship Pain Point24:00 Effort, Values, and Actions That Don't Match25:00 When a Friend Uses You as an Alibi26:00 Time Will Either Expose or Promote27:00 Not Being the Fixer — Walking Away Quietly28:00 What Robyn Would Say to Her Best Friend29:00 Look Past the Pretty: Read Their Energy30:00 Rachel Reflects: Judgments That Stick With Us31:00 15,000 Journals and "On the Phone With"32:00 Next Week: Mary McGreevy and Tips from Dead PeopleSupport the show

Wait, did she really say she manifested a best friendship with Weird Al Yankovic? She said it, and more.In this 1990's-style phone call series, we check in with our featured guest of the week to hear what they thought of their episode. Tune in to this bonus episode where we're On The Phone with Melanie Curtis, getting her thoughts about Episodes 7 and 8, where she appears with her "other" best friend, Shannon. This is a quick, fun catch-up where Melanie and Rachel reconnect to reflect, reframe, and add a last dose of seriously good friendship wisdom. Grab your headphones and eavesdrop while we are On The Phone.Support the show

What does it actually take to keep a friendship for 20 years? In Part 2 of this conversation, best friends Melanie Curtis and Shannon Lee show us — through wine, tears, ayahuasca, and a whole lot of radical honesty.In this episode of The Best Friend Project, host Rachel Joy Swardson sits down with lifelong best friends Melanie Curtis and Shannon to unpack the real mechanics of a friendship built to last. They get honest about the moments most of us hide: the small confession over a bottle of wine that could've quietly become resentment, the hard conversation in the back seat of a car when heartbreak made one of them pull away, and the shadow parts of ourselves we'd rather no one ever see.Together they explore the difference between putting yourself first, putting the other person first, and the reframe that changes everything — putting the friendship first. You'll hear why coming forward with an uncomfortable truth builds more trust than staying silent ever could, how deeper healing work in one area of life can quietly make you a better friend in all of them, and why so many of us were never taught that platonic love deserves the same intention we pour into romance and career.In This Episode: The wine bottle confession how one small moment of honesty ("that was me") became a 20-year lesson in choosing the friendship over your egoWhat "shadow work" really means and why looking at the parts of ourselves we'd rather hide is the secret to showing up as a better friendPutting yourself first vs. putting the friendship first Why coming forward builds trust like nothing else — Shannon on how plant medicine and deep inner work helped her see her own patterns, own her part, and find peace when a letter went unansweredWhy friendship breakups can hurt more than romantic ones Connect with Melanie and Shannon:Melanie on LinkedinMelanie on Instagram @melaniecurtis11Website MelanieCurtis.comShannon On Instagram @luacheialuminosa and @greatspiritfarmAbout The Best Friend PodcastThe Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 0:00 Previously On: Have I Loved My Friends Fully?1:05 Do You Have a "Friendship Type"?2:30 Becoming the Safe Container for Each Other3:20 The Wine Bottle Story: Honesty Over Ego5:20 Shadow Work: The Parts of Us We Hide7:00 Pulling Away During Heartbreak8:30 The Backseat Conversation10:30 You Can't Cry With a Closed Heart12:10 When You Need to Put Yourself First — and Say So14:40 The Reframe: Put the Friendship First15:20 Red Flags & Why Coming Forward Builds Trust16:40 Ayahuasca & Healing the Friendship Wound18:40 The Letter That Got No Reply21:00 Why Friendship Breakups Hurt More22:00 How Deep Healing Made Me a Better Friend24:00 Society Deprioritizes Friendship — Let's Change That26:00 Childhood Friendship Trauma & the Survey Data27:00 Connect With Melanie & Shannon29:20 Rachel's Reflection: Always Put the Friendship FirstSupport the show

It was a short video. Not even two minutes long. Just two friends singing their hearts that made Rachel cry, and question everything about her own friendships. This is the conversation that followed.Scrolling Instagram one night, Rachel Joy Swardson stopped on a video of two women in long coats and sunglasses, belting Starship's "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us" into wooden spoons, with a caption that read: "When you realize every love song is actually about your friendship." It made her laugh. Then it made her cry. Then it left her with a wave of regret, envy, and longing she never saw coming. So she did what The Best Friend Project does best and she invited those two friends on the show to help her understand it.In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Rachel sits down with Melanie Curtis and Shannon Lee, best friends of more than 20 years whose bond is equal parts deep and ridiculous. Melanie is a keynote speaker, world-record skydiver, and peak-performance coach; Shannon is a spiritual ambassador and master plant-medicine facilitator. Together they trace their friendship all the way back to a "love at first sight" moment on a skydiving packing mat in 2005 — and the two decades of high-integrity follow-through that made it last.In This Episode: A "love at first sight" friendship tells how Melanie and Shannon recognized each other instantly on a skydiving mat in 2005, and the 20 years of follow-through that proved it realMelanie on why being ridiculous together is actually an act of service and connectionNature taught Shannon that honesty is the default, and one of the greatest gifts we can give is to stop trying to change the people we loveBoundaries inside unconditional love and how to accept a flaky or difficult friend without abandoning your own limitsThe friendship "template”, or the sticky-note mantra that has guided Melanie and Shannon's bond for two decadesConnect with Melanie and Shannon:Melanie on LinkedinMelanie on Instagram @melaniecurtis11Website MelanieCurtis.comShannon On Instagram @luacheialuminosa and @greatspiritfarmAbout The Best Friend PodcastThe Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 0:00 Love, Hilarity & Becoming Toxic: A Preview1:00 Do Friendships Last Forever — or Grow Apart?2:00 The Instagram Video That Made Me Hiccup Sob3:00 When Every Love Song Is About Your Friendship3:40 The Regret, Envy & Joy I Didn't See Coming4:30 Meet Melanie Curtis & Shannon Lee6:20 Love at First Sight — With a Friend8:00 20 Years of High-Integrity Follow-Through8:40 Love and Hilarity: The Two Most Important Things10:00 What It Was About This Video That Felt Different11:00 Divorce, the Recession & No Time to Be Silly12:40 What It Means to Truly See a Friend14:00 Untapped Potential & Refusing the Corporate Box16:00 Recovering People Pleasers & the Power of Rebellion19:00 What Nature Taught Shannon About Honesty20:00 Loving People As They Are — Without Losing Boundaries22:00 The Friendship "Template" on a Sticky Note24:00 How I Got Unconditional Love Wrong25:00 When Resentment Poisons the Well26:00 Coming Up in Part 2Support the show

Well, I completely botched the time change, so Noelle and I aren't actually on the phone today. 😅 But something happened this week that I couldn't wait to share. After my conversation with Noelle, I found myself putting one of her friendship lessons into practice with a new-ish friend, and it was scary. But good. I think? You decide!If you have had an experience like this following one of our episodes please leave us a voice mail by calling (844) 844-7893Support the show

Rachel Joy Swardson first discovered Noelle Rhodes through a hilarious social media post about why everyone needs a friend from New Jersey. The post made Rachel laugh. It also made her wonder, is it easier to make friends in some parts of the country than others? In this conversation, Rachel sits down with New Jersey comedian Noelle Rhodes to talk about friendship, loyalty, conflict, and the surprising ways geography shapes how we connect with one another.They also discuss a painful moment inside Noelle's friend group that could have ended very differently. Instead of reacting in the heat of the moment, Noelle stepped away, gave herself time to think, and returned with something unexpected: empathy. It's a conversation about friendship rifts, second chances, becoming a comedian later in life, and what happens when the person everyone relies on for a laugh is the one having a hard day.Funny, thoughtful, and unexpectedly moving, this episode might just change the way you think about the roles we play within our friendship group.In This Episode:• Why Noelle believes everyone needs a friend from New Jersey• Friendship differences between the East Coast, West Coast, and Midwest• The friendship conflict that almost changed everything• How a walk around the block prevented a friendship blowup• The hidden challenge of being "the funny friend"• Starting a comedy career later in life• How personal growth can affect friendships• Why empathy is often more powerful than being rightConnect with Noelle Rhodes:@noellerhodescomedyWebsite: https://noellerhodescomedy.com/Coming Next Week:One jumps out of airplanes. The other is immersed in the world of natural healing. Rachel Joy Swardson talks with Melanie and Shannon about their unique friendship, relentless silliness, and shared credo that has kept them connected for more than 20 years.About The Best Friend PodcastThe Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 0:00 Cold Open: Conflict Is a Friendship Sifter0:40 Welcome to The Best Friend Project1:25 Meet Noelle Rhodes, Clean Comedian2:00 How They Connected & the Viral Jersey Reel3:00 Jersey Honesty & the "You Need Bangs" Story5:00 Friendship Sounds Different in Every Region8:00 When Friends React to Your New Career9:50 Hiding Behind Humor: "You're So Funny"12:00 When the Funny Friend Breaks Down13:00 The Long Walk & the Cast of Friends17:00 The Funny Friend Can Be Hurt Too21:00 Learning to "Self-Friend"21:30 Northern Ireland & the Chocolate Party24:00 Crying Under the Duvet: Loneliness Hits25:00 Making Friends in Your 30s27:00 Conflict as an Invitation to Go Deeper29:00 Dialing It Back vs. Blowing It Up30:30 Our Mothers' Friendships Looked Different32:00 Time Is the Currency of Trust34:30 No Shortcut: Friendship & Stand-Up35:00 "I Don't Like People" & Other Green Flags36:00 Where to Find & Book Noelle38:00 Rachel's Reflection: The Funny Friend & Loneliness41:00 Next Week: Melanie & Shannon#TheBestFriendProject #FemaleFriendship #Friendship #MakingFriendsAsAnAdult #AdultFriendship #Loneliness #FriendshipPodcast #WomenSupportingWomen #MidlifeFriendship #FriendshipAdvice #CleanComedy #NoelleRhodes #TheFunnyFriend #SelfFriendship #ConflictResolution #FriendshipBreakup #PodcastForWomen #WomenAndFriendship #Vulnerability #Connection #NewJersey #Comedian #PodcastClips #RealStories #FindMakeKeepSupport the show

Hi! Have you listened to Episode Two: The Hidden Impact of Childhood Poverty on Friendship with Michelle and Elle?When Michelle shared how growing up in poverty shaped her self-confidence as a child, I was speechless. I could have talked for another 30 minutes. On this phone call, I wanted to hear her reaction to the episode, but I also wanted to thank her for shining a light on the important, and often overlooked, impact poverty can have on a child's sense of security and self-perception. Her perspective is incredibly powerful, and I haven't stopped thinking about it.If you haven't listened to Episode Two yet, I hope you will. Michelle's honesty, resilience, and extraordinary friendship with Elle are inspiring. I've seen listeners comment that they wish they had a friendship like theirs. Here's the thing—I believe they can. Michelle and Elle remind us that friendships like this are possible, and they're worth investing in.Guest: Michelle Mackenzie (@TheLifeofaWidow)🎙️ The Best Friend Podcast explores how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original friendship research, honest conversations, and unforgettable stories.Take the survey and share your friendship story at TheBestFriendProject.co.Support the show

Hi! Did you have a chance to listen to Episode One: I Thought We'd Grow Old Together with Elle and Michelle?If so, I invite you to eavesdrop on my phone call with Elle. I was so curious to hear what it was like for her to listen back to her own words and relive such a personal conversation. This was my very first podcast episode, and I am honestly a little nervous to hear what she thought of it.If you haven't listened to Episode One yet, I hope you will. Elle and Michelle's friendship, their individual stories, and the way they found each other left a lasting impression on me. I genuinely feel like I'm a better human for having had that conversation, and I hope you will, too.Guest: Elle James (@shamelesselle)🎙️ The Best Friend Podcast explores how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original friendship research, honest conversations, and unforgettable stories.Share your friendship story by taking the survey at TheBestFriendProject.coSupport the show

When Shameless Elle lost the friendship she thought would last forever, she wasn't looking for new friends. But life had other plans.In Part 2 of this conversation, Rachel Joy Swardson welcomes Michelle (@TheLifeOfAWidow) to the podcast to talk about the friendship that formed when three women found themselves navigating grief, loss, loneliness, and some of the hardest seasons of their lives at the exact same time. Michelle shares how growing up in poverty shaped the way she approached friendship, while Elle reflects on the surprising lessons she's learned from the women who stepped into her life after her best friend breakup. Together, they talk about accepting help, showing up imperfectly, and why some of the most meaningful friendships aren't built during the best years of our lives, they're built during the hardest. This isn't a conversation about waiting until you have life figured out before making friends. It's a conversation about finding people willing to march through the hardships with you, because they're in it too.In This Episode:• How three women found each other during seasons of grief and loss • The impact poverty can have on friendship and self-worth • Why asking for help is harder than it looks • What happens when women stop trying to earn love and simply receive it • Friendship after widowhood, divorce, and heartbreak • The small acts of kindness that change relationships forever • Why nobody has to march through life's hardest moments aloneConnect with Our Guests:Shameless Elle Instagram: @ShamelessEllehttps://shamelesselle.comMichelle Instagram: @TheLifeOfAWidowAbout The Best Friend PodcastThe Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original data, personal experience, and candid conversations.To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 0:00 Opening — "Without Those Friendships, You'd Be Climbing the Walls"1:00 Welcome to The Best Friend Project + Michelle Joins the Conversation2:00 Michelle on Showing Up for Elle Through Grief3:00 How Elle & Stephanie Show Up for Michelle Every Friday5:00 The Power of Letting People In When You're Struggling6:00 How Elle, Michelle & Stephanie's Friendship Was Born Out of Necessity8:00 "Meet People Where They're At" — What Authentic Friendship Looks Like9:00 Rachel Reflects on Survival Mode, Male Friends & Her First Real Female Friendship11:00 Words of Advice for Anyone Struggling with Friendship12:00 "Humble Yourself" — Elle's Honest Take on Growing Through Friendship13:00 How to Be a Good Friend When You Have No Time or Capacity14:00 "It's Not Do You Have Time for Me — It's How Can I Meet You Where You Are"15:00 Michelle Opens Up: Poverty, Shame & Learning to Let People In17:00 Overgiving to Be Loved — "If I Do This, Then You Will Love Me"18:00 Elle Reflects on Michelle & Stephanie's Strength and Intelligence19:00 Where to Follow Elle (Shameless Elle) & Michelle (Life of a Widow)20:00 The Taylor Swift Origin Story Behind Michelle's Handle21:00 Rachel's Closing Reflections — Seeing the Right People in Your Darkest Hour22:00 Next Week: Noelle Rhodes on the Burden of Being the Funny Friend#TheBestFriendProject #FemaleFriendship #GriefAndFriendship #WomenSupportingWomen #FriendshipAdvice #MakingFriendsAsAnAdult #VulnerabilityAndConnectionSupport the show

Rachel Joy Swardson thought losing her best friend was rare. Then she met content creator Shameless Elle and discovered they shared a surprisingly similar story. For nearly a decade, Elle believed she'd already found her person, the friend she'd call in a crisis, celebrate life's wins with, and grow old beside. Then one difficult decision changed everything, and the friendship ended. In this candid conversation, Rachel and Elle talk about friendship breakups, losing the woman you thought would always be there, and the unexpected loneliness that follows when your social world is built around one person.But they also talk about what comes next. Because sometimes the friendships that change your life aren't the ones you lose. They're the ones you didn't see standing beside you all along.In This Episode:• The friendship breakup that changed the course of Elle's life • Why losing a best friend can feel as painful as a divorce • The danger of making one person your entire social world • How friendship loss can shake your confidence and identity • The surprising people who were waiting in the wings all along • What Rachel and Elle learned after losing the friendships they thought would last foreverConnect with Shameless Elle:Instagram: @ShamelessElle https://shamelesselle.comComing Up Next:Elles best friend Michelle @lifeofawidow joins the conversation in Part 2 to share how an unlikely friendship between three women became a lifeline during some of the hardest times of their lives.About The Best Friend PodcastThe Best Friend Podcast is where original friendship research meets real-life stories. Host Rachel Joy Swardson, founder of The Best Friend Project, investigates how women find, make, lose, and keep the platonic loves of their lives through original research, personal experience, and candid conversations. Learn more, take the survey, and share your friendship story at TheBestFriendProject.co.To learn more, visit The Best Friend Project.co . While you're there, discover your Friendship Archetype by taking the  Friendship Survey We'd also love to stay in touch—come say hello on Instagram  and Facebook (we will follow you back!)  If you need to reach us, you can always email us at [email protected]: 0:00 Opening — "I thought we'd grow old together"1:00 Welcome to The Best Friend Project2:00 How Rachel Found Elle (and What She Saw in That Instagram Post)3:00 Elle's Best Friend Breakup — Nine Years, Then Silence5:00 The Moment That Ended Everything: A Crisis and a Phone Call7:00 What It Feels Like to Lose Your "One Person"9:00 How Elle Started Saying Yes to Friendship Again11:00 Reflection: Was That Friendship Even Healthy?13:00 Hiding Your Joy to Protect Your Friend's Feelings15:00 Grieving a Friendship While Honoring the Good in It16:00 How Elle Met Stephanie and Michelle17:00 Three Women, Shared Grief, and a Friendship Born of Necessity19:00 When Friendship Hits a Threshold — And You Have to Decide21:00 Healthier Friendships Were There All Along22:00 "I Thought I Only Needed One Friend" — On Codependency and Letting People In24:00 The Story of Michelle's Car — What True Friendship Looks Like27:00 How Michelle Teaches Elle to Be a Better Friend28:00 Michelle Joins the Conversation — Stay Tuned for Part 2#TheBestFriendProject #FriendshipBreakup #WomenAndFriendship #FemaleFriendship #BestFriendBreakup #MakingFriendsAsAnAdult #FriendshipHealingSupport the show

What happens when a 12-year friendship ends? For former television journalist and private investigator Rachel Joy Swardson, it sparked an investigation; not into a crime, but into one of life's most powerful and overlooked relationships: female friendship. The Best Friend Project is an independent deep dive into how women find, make, lose, and keep meaningful friendships. Through original research, real stories from women across the country, and candid podcast interviews, this show explores the full arc of women's friendships, from the joy of connection and belonging to the pain of friendship heartbreak and loneliness. Whether you're grieving the loss of a best friend, trying to build new friendships as an adult, or simply wondering why female friendships are so complicated, this is the conversation you've been waiting for. Tune in for honest, research-backed insights and real friendship stories that remind us: every friendship has a story worth telling.Take the survey here: https://thebestfriendproject.co/#TheBestFriendProject #BestFriendPodcast #FemaleFriendship #WomensFriendship #FriendshipPodcastSupport the show