The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast

In this week's episode, I welcome back a returning guest and good friend, Canadian author and former fundamentalist Christian, Janice Selbie. We discuss her upcoming book, The Guru Gene: From Blind Faith to Clear Thinking in an Age of Influence, dropping at the end of August.   We explore why intelligent, educated people are just as susceptible to cults, cons, and high-control groups as anyone else. To explain this, we touch on cognitive biases like pareidolia and apophenia, the role of certainty over accuracy, echo chambers, and cult dynamics evident in religion, politics (including MAGA and Trump-worship), and beyond.   Drawing on our personal deconversion experiences, we also discuss the destabilizing nature of deconstruction, the importance of community both within and after leaving high-demand groups, and practical tools—like Socratic questioning, intellectual humility, and tolerating uncertainty—for resisting manipulation and helping others find their way out. For those who have left a cult or high-control religious group, this conversation will empower you both to discover and rebuild your authentic self.  Religious Trauma Syndrome Coaching, Workshop & Support Group | Divorcing Religion  Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community at this link! Email: [email protected]

This week's conversation features an interview with Josh Foster, a former missionary kid turned licensed therapist who specializes in helping people recover from religious trauma. Josh recounts how his life changed dramatically at age five when his parents converted to conservative evangelicalism, leading the family to give away all their possessions and spend nearly five years living on Operation Mobilization's missionary ships sailing through Europe and Scandinavia.   Growing up among missionaries, handing out gospel tracts on the streets of New York and London, and being educated through field trips to historical sites gave Josh a uniquely global perspective — one that would later make it impossible for him to fit comfortably into American evangelical culture when the family returned to the States.  The conversation then shifts to Josh's long and painful journey out of the faith, a process that took over two decades despite his growing disillusionment. After spending 23 years in ministry — including a lengthy stint with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship staffing college campuses — Josh began asking "what if" questions after encountering colleagues who were devout Christians yet voted Democrat, and after leading students through rigorous inductive Bible study that he couldn't reconcile with what he heard in American churches.   He eventually left ministry, retrained as a therapist at age 41, and now uses narrative therapy to help others who have exited religious systems — guiding them to reframe their life stories, externalize their problems, and build new tools for living outside the guardrails of the belief systems that shaped them. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

This conversation features Rob Thain Smith — author of Four and Twenty Blackbirds: The Trial of Paul Petry, the Beginning of the End of Mars Hill Church. We discuss the rise and fall of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, led by controversial pastor Mark Driscoll. Rob shares his first-hand experience as a long-time member who was in the process of becoming an elder when the church's governance crisis began. The central conflict we explore is the 2007 bylaw changes at Mars Hill that consolidated power away from a plurality of 24 elders and into Driscoll's hands. Rob recounts the controversial trial of elder Paul Petry, who was fired and put through a deeply flawed, unjust internal process for minor infractions — largely because he posed a threat to Driscoll's growing authority. Rob argues that the real failure of Mars Hill was not Driscoll alone, but the 24 elders who, despite knowing the trial was wrong, unanimously voted against Petry out of fear and self-interest. The conversation also covers the church's culture of shunning, Driscoll's continued platform at his Arizona church Trinity, and Rob's motivation for writing the book — to offer a more nuanced, leadership-focused account than the widely listened-to Christianity Today podcast series about Mars Hill. Follow this link for more information about Four and Twenty Blackbirds! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

This week's episode features a conversation with Paule Patterson — a former pastor turned Christian mystic and recovering alcoholic — to trace the arc of his remarkable personal journey.  Paule shares how his struggles with addiction, the collapse of his ministry in Missoula, Montana, and how multiple stints in rehab ultimately forced him to confront the deeper fractures in his faith, his identity, and his sense of self. Rather than walking away from spirituality entirely, Paule found that sobriety, AA, psychology, and a voracious study of both scripture and philosophy led him toward a richer, more honest relationship with the divine.  In the second half, our conversation broadens out into a wide-ranging discussion about the Western church's tendency to institutionalize and rigidify belief — from the Reformation to the present-day Christian nationalist movement in America.  We draw on such diverse elements as church history, René Girard's mimetic theory, Taoism, Buddhist mindfulness, and the work of Richard Rohr to argue that Christianity was always meant to be a living, transformative path rather than a doctrinal checklist.   Paule describes himself today as a Christian mystic, running a small business while quietly pursuing his passion project of helping others navigate deconstruction with intellectual honesty and spiritual openness.  Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community and help support the show! Email: [email protected]

In this episode, I speak with Beth Granger, author of Born and Razed: Surviving the Cult Was Only Half the Battle. Beth shares her extraordinary story of growing up as a staff kid inside Grenville Christian College in Brockville, Ontario — a boarding school secretly operating as a cult under the influence of the Community of Jesus, a commune based in Cape Cod. She describes the psychological control, public shaming sessions, draconian discipline, and spy networks that defined life inside the institution, drawing striking parallels between cult tactics and the dynamics of modern political movements. Our conversation also covers Beth's long journey toward healing after leaving at age 31, including her involvement in a landmark lawsuit that became the first historical abuse case to win at trial in Canada. She reflects on the layers of recovery that followed: therapy, writing her memoir, and the validating experience of having her story taken seriously in a court of law. The episode closes with a discussion of how the Community of Jesus continues to operate today--now aligned with Christian nationalist ideology--and why Beth wrote her book: to sound the alarm about the lasting, sometimes irreparable damage that weaponized, high-control religion can inflict. For more information on the book, check out Beth's site. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

In this week's episode, I chat with Morgan Piercy, a Licensed Professional Counselor based in Kansas. She specializes in helping adults deconstruct from evangelicalism and Christian nationalism through a neurodiversity-affirming lens. Together we explore the clinical reality of Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS) — why it goes far deeper than the commonly used term "church hurt" — and how patriarchal church structures, purity culture, and high-control theology can create lasting psychological harm. We also draw on our personal experiences with religious deconstruction, sharing candid reflections on growing up in fundamentalist and charismatic traditions, the fear-based theology of hell and the rapture, and the complex journey toward reclaiming identity outside the church. Morgan also discusses the therapeutic tools she uses with clients, including Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), to help people reconnect with their authentic values after leaving high-control religious environments. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

In this week's episode, I finally had the chance to interview investigative journalist Gareth Gore about his book Opus: The Cult of Dark Money, Human Trafficking, and Right-Wing Conspiracy Within the Catholic Church. Gore explains how he stumbled onto the story while investigating the 2017 collapse of Spain's Banco Popular, only to discover the bank had been covertly controlled by Opus Dei for decades — serving as its primary financial engine and funneling hundreds of millions, possibly billions, of dollars into the organization worldwide. Our conversation traces Opus Dei's origins in 1920s Spain under founder Josemaría Escrivá, its symbiotic relationship with the Franco regime, and its evolution into a secretive, elitist global network operating in 70 countries. Gore details how the organization targets society's elite — law students, politicians, judges — to advance a conservative Catholic agenda, including its deep ties to figures like Bill Barr, Leonard Leo, and the conservative takeover of the U.S. Supreme Court. We also expose the darker side of Opus Dei: cult-like control over members, psychological abuse, and criminal charges filed in Argentina for the enslavement and human trafficking of women recruited as "assistant numeraries" to serve in Opus Dei centers around the world. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

I've finally had time to get this special episode out: another chapter reading from my 2024 book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work, edited by Tim Sledge. In this reading--Chapter 4--I pick up the story that follows immediately after my first baptism at the age of 10. My pastor had recommended I get baptized after I'd seen that terrifying, end-times apocalyptic movie A Thief in the Night in the 1970s. Afraid of being left behind in the event of the Rapture, I submitted to his spiritual authority, and went ahead and got baptized. Since he'd informed me that baptism was the key to salvation, after this important milestone event, I figured I was finally on safe ground with the Almighty. No longer terrified and suffering from Rapture anxiety, I went on to the next key step I was told I needed for my spiritual development: reading the Bible and praying daily, which I struggled to do on a consistent basis. I was also told by important people in my life that I needed to develop a love for God too, I tried mightily to do that also, but with very limited success. Link to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community Email: [email protected]

Just in time for the aftermath of the Christian nationalist-fuelled "Rededicate 250," I   welcome back Dr. Warren Throckmorton. We discuss his new book, The Christian Past That Wasn't: Debunking The Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History, which challenges the historical claims of Christian nationalism. Dr. Throckmorton explains how Uganda's 2009 Anti-Homosexuality Bill — justified by its sponsors using the Bible and linked to "The Family" — sparked his journey toward strict church-state separationism. We then take aim at a number of these quasi-historical myths, such as the belief that America was founded as a Christian nation. Dr Throckmorton's rigorous historical research reveals that the Founders deliberately excluded religion from the Constitution, and that it is not in fact based on the Bible. Dr. Throckmorton contends that today's Christian nationalism is less about history and more about political power, pointing to the Trump administration as a prime example of pro-Trump evangelical Christianity operating as a quasi-established religion. ​The question truly is: who benefits from promoting such mythology? ​ ​ Get access to the book at this link: The Christian Past That Wasn't Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

This conversation features a return appearance by Dr. Terri Daniel of the Ask Dr. Death podcast. We discuss spiritual bypassing — a psychological phenomenon, originally coined by Buddhist teacher and psychotherapist John Welwood in the 1980s, which describes the use of spiritual or religious beliefs as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with painful emotions, grief, trauma, and loss. Dr. Daniel draws from her academic research, as well as her experience as a hospice chaplain, offering case studies and clinical definitions to illuminate how people use religion to sidestep the hard work of emotional healing. Out conversation is wide-ranging and candid, touching on the Hebrew Bible's "reward-and-punishment" theology, the Book of Job, cognitive dissonance in faith communities, and the concept of disenfranchised grief — the inability to mourn openly within a religious community when the deceased falls outside its moral framework. We both share personal anecdotes, including Clint's recent retinal detachment surgery and Terri's job loss, as real-world examples of resilience without divine intervention. The episode closes with a plug for an upcoming online symposium on spiritual bypassing, scheduled for July 25th, featuring six presenters including grief counselors, a Buddhist teacher, and researchers in trauma and religious deconstruction. Contact Terri at https://deathgriefandbelief.com/ Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

After speaking recently with Peter Bell for the last podcast, I'm bringing you a bonus episode: a conversation Sarah Bader, co-host of the Sons of Patriarchy podcast and a longtime Moscow, Idaho resident. We talk about what everyday life is like under the influence of Pastor Doug Wilson and his Christ Church. Sarah shares how she joined Peter after a failed NPR project, and how growing up in Moscow since 1998 gave her a frontline view of how Doug Wilson has systematically built a religious and cultural empire in the town. The conversation covers Wilson's dominionist agenda, his ties to the American Redoubt movement, Christian nationalism, and his growing national influence through figures like "Secretary of War" Pete Hegseth. The second half of the interview delves into specific scandals Wilson has survived, most notably the Steven Sitler child abuse case, where Wilson wrote letters of leniency to the court and later presided over Sitler's wedding despite his crimes. We also discuss the cult-like hallmarks of Wilson's Christ "Kirk"--loaded language, self-ordained leadership, a self-contained publishing and education empire, and a culture of fear and bullying that has left local businesses, city officials, and even state institutions reluctant to challenge Wilson. Sarah reflects on the personal toll of living within 500 yards of Wilson's campus while fighting him publicly, expressing uncertainty about whether the battle is being won, but affirming her commitment to speaking out as long as she can. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

In this episode, I welcome Peter Bell from the Sons of Patriarchy podcast for a deep dive into the world of Doug Wilson. He's a self-ordained pastor from Moscow, Idaho who has spent decades building a network of Christian nationalist influence. Together we trace Wilson's origins, his controversial "Southern Slavery As It Was" pamphlet, his founding of the CREC denomination and the Association of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS), and how his fringe ideas gradually moved into the mainstream — culminating in his recent sermon at the Pentagon. The conversation then turns to Pete Hegseth, now U.S. Secretary of Defense (or War), and the web of connections linking him to Wilson's world through classical Christian education and the ACCS, Fox News, Christian nationalism, and the fringe CREC denomination. Both of us, as seminary-trained theologians, share deep concern about a man with limited theological education wielding militaristic, crusader-inspired religious rhetoric--all the while overseeing the world's most powerful military engaged in an illegal war against Iran. We argue that the through line--traced from R.J. Rushdoony's Christian Reconstructionism to Doug Wilson to Pete Hegseth--represents a genuinely dangerous convergence of weaponized theology, patriarchy, and political power. For more information on Doug Wilson, check out this playlist of episodes I did on him a few years ago. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

This week, I had the pleasure to interview returning guest Tia Levings about her new book I Belong To Me: A Survivor's Guide to Recovery and Hope After Religious Trauma. Tia explains that while her first memoir A Well-Trained Wife told the story of escaping an abusive marriage rooted in Christian patriarchy--and the teachings of figures like Bill Gothard and James Dobson--this new book is a self-help guide chronicling how she rebuilt herself over a decade of healing. We also explore the broader reach of Christian nationalism, including Doug Wilson's growing political influence through figures like Pete Hegseth, and how fundamentalist movements groom people for obedience and abuse through purity culture, corporal punishment, and high-control dynamics. Tia shares practical insights from her recovery journey, including EMDR, internal family systems therapy, somatic work, and grounding techniques. She emphasizes treating triggers as information rather than threats, the importance of tending to the "aftermath of shock" before making major life decisions, and how unhealed trauma can lead to "cult hopping" into new controlling relationships. She describes herself as "spiritually private," rejecting labels in favor of fluidity and self-discovery. The book is written for religious trauma survivors but has resonated widely with anyone leaving high-control environments. Tia is currently working on a third book called How to Leave Anything. Find Tia's book and also her writings on her site here! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community Email me: [email protected]

For those who missed our December 2025 DDP Zoom call, this is it! I was able to reconnect with authors Kelsey McGinnis and Marissa Burt about their book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting. The conversation centers on Doug Wilson, a controversial Moscow, Idaho pastor who promotes Christian nationalism and authoritarian parenting-- including advocating spanking "reigns of terror" to guarantee children's "cheerful obedience." We then extend that out to include the broader ecosystem of figures like Bill Gothard and James Dobson, major Christian influencers who built empires promising that formulaic Christian, "biblically-based parenting" guarantees godly outcomes. We explore how these harmful ideologies are cyclical--repackaged by new evangelical influencers for each generation. Using fresh aesthetics and modern platforms, the core pattern remains: exploit parental fears, promise a formula based on their interpretation of the Bible, and then blame "user error" when it fails. We also connect all of this to the evangelical purity culture, the "stay-at-home daughter" movement, and today's social media influencers pushing increasingly extreme positions. We also note that even movements like Gothard's IBLP had retention rates as low as 3% — yet somehow, the same ideas keep getting recycled for a new generation of impressionable Christians attempting to pattern both their marriages and child-rearing practices on what turns out to be deeply flawed theology. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Find My Book Not So Shiny, Not So Happy People here on Amazon. Email me: [email protected]

This week, I welcome new friend Timmy Joe Gibson for a deep dive into our parallel journeys: from passionate Christian ministry to atheism. Both former pastors, we share our experiences in faith: me as a Bible college teacher and PhD scholar who spent over 20 years in ministry across the US and UK, and Timmy as a charismatic pastor who grew his church from 10 people in his living room to 300 members. We discuss our theological education at institutions like Rhema Bible Training Center and Western Seminary, our involvement in word-of-faith movements and dominion theology, and the gradual "death by a thousand cuts" that led us to question--and ultimately abandon-- everything we once believed, preached, and taught to so many others so passionately. Our conversation explores how deeper biblical scholarship paradoxically led us away from fundamentalism, as we touch on topics like the authorship of the Gospels, the problem of slavery in scripture, conspiracy theory mindsets in Christianity, and the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. Both of us reflect on what we've salvaged from our past. My public speaking skills now serve me as a teacher and builder, while Timmy has built a successful wedding officiant business in Kansas City. We also candidly discuss how we're now happier as atheists than we ever were as believers, focusing our energy on helping others navigate the deconstruction process, rather than engaging in angry debates with those still in the faith. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

This is a two-part podcast conversation between me and Nick from The Autistic Pod. To hear Part 2--where he interviews me--you'll have to head over to his platform to catch it. Our discussion begins by discussing Nick's experiences with ADHD and autism, exploring how neurodivergence affects relationships, communication, and daily life. Nick shares his journey of self-diagnosis at age 42 after watching "Love on the Spectrum," and discusses the concept of "masking" - the exhausting practice of hiding one's authentic self to fit neurotypical expectations. He opens up about experiencing severe depression, the importance of honesty as a core value, and how his racing thoughts (three times more than neurotypical people) create both challenges and unique perspectives. The conversation then delves into Nick's "Nine Rules for Life," which include principles like personal growth, accountability, avoiding toxic people, and living authentically. Both of us share relatable experiences about relationships, with Nick discussing his fiancée's C-PTSD and how they navigate their neurodivergent partnership, while I reflect on my past relationship challenges with someone likely on the spectrum. Nick and I bonded over shared values around honesty, heavy metal music, and the struggle to balance directness with social expectations. Nick helps us to emphasize the importance of understanding neurodivergence, respecting different ways of processing the world, and finding communities that accept you for who you truly are. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

I had a great opportunity to interview Brian and Troy from the now-retired "I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist" podcast. They discuss why they ended their successful podcast after five years, with both hosts explaining they felt exhausted and had covered what they wanted to say about leaving evangelical Christianity. The conversation explores their personal journeys of deconstructing their faith, including Troy's pivotal moment during a Buddhist meditation retreat and Brian's gradual realization over many years that the beliefs no longer held up. Our discussion delves into several major topics including the Hillsong Church scandals in Australia, particularly Brian Houston's cover-up of his father Frank Houston's pedophilia, and the broader issues of abuse within patriarchal religious structures. They also discuss their eye-opening episode about Keith Green and Last Days Ministries, which revealed cult-like practices that shattered their last remaining positive associations with evangelical Christianity. The conversation concludes with reflections on rebuilding life after leaving religion, emphasizing the importance of finding new communities, being patient with yourself, and accepting that life after faith won't have the same certainty that religion once provided. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

For the inaugural episode of 2026, I reached out to returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of a 2025 book entitled Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. Stewart, an investigative journalist who has tracked the religious right for 17 years, argues that Christian nationalism has evolved from a fringe movement into a powerful political force waging war against democracy itself—targeting rational governance, the rule of law, and constitutional checks and balances. She traces its rise through decades of infrastructure building, massive dark money from billionaires, and the growing influence of charismatic Christianity and New Apostolic Reformation theology, which has enabled Trump's unprecedented corruption and authoritarian actions. In her book, Stewart explores critical dimensions of this threat, including the split within the Catholic Church between progressive voices and ultra-wealthy conservatives funding hard-right messaging, groups like Moms for Liberty working to dismantle public education, and the disturbing connections between current Christian nationalist rhetoric and pro-slavery theology. She warns that while the movement claims to champion religious liberty, it actually seeks privilege for itself and suppression of dissent, threatening not only American democracy but exporting illiberalism globally. You can reach Katherine Stewart through her website at katherinestewart.me or via email at [email protected]. Find a copy of Money, Lies, and God at this link on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

The final episode of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast features a conversation with Brandt Burleson out of Houston, TX, who tells a wild story...as an employee of the Israeli Consulate in Houston a few years ago, Brandt was tasked with being an "interfaith liaison" between the State of Israel and Christians. Sounds innocuous enough, doesn't it? But what Brandt discovered as he settled into the job was that essentially, the Consulate was running what amounted to a sophisticated psy-op targeting Christians of all theological stripes and traditions. By weaponizing both Christian Zionism and Christian nationalism, appealing to the deeply baked-in nature of both within Christianity, the sophisticated operation began...and I'll let Brandt tell you the rest of the story in this episode! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

If you've been the victim of spiritual abuse--experienced in a wide variety of forms--it is imperative for you to gain the language, or vocabulary, to be able to describe what exactly happened to you. Moreover, education is one of the most critical aspects on the recovery journey. Author Katherine Spearing, with her new book A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts: The Subtle, Insidious Nature of Spiritual Abuse and Life on the Other Side, empowers those of us who have suffered at the hands of controlling, patriarchal religious figures. Katherine illuminates the path to spiritual healing and wholeness for those who are trying to reclaim their lives from the effects of coercive control--whatever it may have looked like. In addition to defining such terms as "spiritual abuse" and "spiritual gaslighting," Katherine provides hope, help, and healing in terms of recovering their life--on the other side of controlling, and often abusive, forms of religion. Find out more on Katherine's website here! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community Email me: [email protected]

This week I'm joined by my friend Rachel Bernstein, host of the IndoctriNation Podcast and author of a brand-new book entitled Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation. Rachel's book, along with a companion notebook for journaling and self-reflection, are super helpful resources for those of us who come out of high-control religious groups, cults, or any sort of manipulative relationship. Choosing to leave these groups or destructive narcissistic relationships, as she reminds us, is one of the most difficult choices an individual can make--and it is far from easy. Or it may be that the person didn't choose to leave, but was kicked out, excommunicated, or rejected. Either way, navigating life moving forward can prove to be almost impossibly difficult. Restart and Restore is not just a book to read and put down later--it is a guided healing journal that offers a clear framework both for self-discovery and recovery. This conversation provides an informative guide for those of us rebuilding our lives after walking away from it all. Restart and Restore: A Journal For Survivors of Manipulation available on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

I'm joined this week by my very good friend Stacie Rae from Canada. Herself a survivor of a narcissistic relationship, Stacie now empowers those who are seeking not only to identify what narcissism is, but how to escape and rebuild their lives after leaving it all behind. Stacie works as a mentor and life coach providing, in her words, courses and recovery options that serve as an "alchemy of mind, body, spirit, and emotions." Recovery and empowerment after suffering through a narcissistic relationship is a holistic thing--it can't be done in isolation, and at time, we need the help of others to work through our issues and traumas. In addition to discussing narcissism, we also delve into the question: "Is the God of the Bible a narcissist?" This is a tough question, but definitely worth asking--especially if your religious faith was defined in large part by serving an abusive deity. We also delve into trauma bonding and healing from the abuses suffered while in those relationships. Get more information on the House of Rae Academy at this link! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

This week's conversation features Cynane Shay, who goes by the name "Taking Off The Tinfoil Hat" on social media. She's an expert on the subject of Christianity and conspiracy theories, which is incredibly timely given the current situation regarding religion and politics in today's world. You may be familiar with evangelicals who embrace such conspiracy theories as QAnon or PizzaGate, but it turns out that this is but the tip of the iceberg. As you'll discover, not only are conspiracy theories baked into so much of Christianity, it's a feature--not a bug--of the religion itself. Conspiracy theory thinking is nothing new--it goes back millennia, and it turns out to be a human condition. But in today's evangelicalism, with its rabid embrace of Trump and Christian nationalism, conspiracy theories are being weaponized to the detriment of democracy. Contact Cynane through her website Taking Off The Tinfoil Hat! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

This is a great conversation featuring the co-authors of the soon-to-be-released excellent book, The Myth of Good Christian Parenting: How False Promises Betrayed a Generation of Evangelical Families by Marissa Franks Burt and Kelsey Kramer McGinnis. These dedicated authors now conclusively demonstrate that the concept of "good Christian parenting" is indeed a myth. Worse than that, there are now a few generations of children raised in such contexts who serve as valuable case studies. They demonstrate conclusively that the fruit of much of what passed for good Christian parenting embodied many false promises. What is the legacy of these myths that so many parents followed religiously? The fruit is unfortunate indeed: generations of children, now adults, who are estranged from their Christian parents; those who have walked away from the church and their faith as a result of their abusive and traumatic upbringing; and parents who now deeply regret following the advice of "experts" who built entire empires profiting from dispensing seemingly wise biblical advice on both parenting and child-rearing. Order your copy of The Myth of Good Christian Parenting here on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

This week's episode features a wide-ranging and informative conversation with my good friend and returning guest, David Johnson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers Podcast. I've done a number of shows with David, both here and on his show, and we've teamed up a lot this year for his "Summer of Morality" series he's been doing on his platform. Speaking with David about the topics of how God commanded the Israelites to commit genocide in the Old Testament, as well as the Bible's condoning of slavery, led me to invite him back to break these issues down in further details. For those who are contemplating deconstructing their Christian faith, or for those of us who have walked away but still have issues to process through from our past life of belief, this conversation will prove to be both thought-provoking as well as beneficial. If you want to hear more of my work with David, head over to his platform on YouTube or Square Space to catch our conversations. Help Support the Show on Patreon: The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Email: [email protected]

This week's episode features new friend Mikee Bridges, a former Christian rocker/grunge/punk musician who is also known for putting on the Tom Fest, an alternative Christian music festival that ran for 14 years. He also ran a Christian rock venue in Portland, OR, for many years. After getting out of the Christian music game, Mikee went on to help found GameChurch, which attempted to reach gamers at such events as ComicCon and other venues. But eventually, despite his decades of missional ministry efforts, as Mikee describes it, "the sh*t hit the fan"--and he began to deconstruct his entire life's belief system of evangelical Christianity. Today, he's attempting to put the pieces all back together after losing Jesus, "my best friend," as he sees it now. If you're interested in attending the Tom Convention, this is an alternative music convention coming up next month in Southern California. Click the link below to find out more information about tickets and the venue: Tom Convention dates, details and pricing Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email me: [email protected]

In honor of my presentation at the Houston Oasis gathering on Sunday, the 24th of August, we are running a special promo sale that day on my book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work. This weekend you'll be able to purchase the book on Amazon.com for just 99 cents! Also, if you're able, log into the Houston Oasis live Facebook feed beginning at 10am CST to catch my presentation on religious trauma syndrome. If you can't make it to the live feed, don't worry--it will be recorded and posted up to their channel later on, so you can still catch my talk on RTS. Find Not So Shiny Not So Happy People at this link on Amazon! Houston Oasis Facebook Feed link

Once again I'm joined by my good friend Frank Schaeffer to discuss all things politics, religion, Christian nationalism, and the effect Trump is having on both the evangelical church and America overall. As a passionate observer of what's going on in terms of current events--not just in America but indeed the world--Frank always has a unique take on what's happening now, and the long-term effect it may have on both. Frank, and his famous father Francis Schaeffer, helped kickstart the evangelical anti-abortion movement in the USA in the early 1970s. Ironically, although he couldn't have known it at the time, this was one of the foundational pieces in not only what would become the Christian Right, but also Trump's MAGA cult base. Frank is still making up for that decades later...and I think you'll enjoy this informative and educational conversation! Help support the work of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast by joining Patreon! Send me an email: [email protected]

Recently I reconnected with returning guest Stephen Mather, former Jehovah's Witness and co-host of the now-defunct Cult Hackers Podcast. As an organizational psychologist, and former JW, Stephen is uniquely positioned to inform listeners on the eight markers of cults identified by Dr Robert Jay Lifton in his book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism. Lifton's eight markers are not only time-honored in describing the various tactics used by cults and high-control groups, in addition he provides a helpful extra bit: the psychological effects of each one on the individual or follower. Thus, Stephen and I go through all eight in turn, discuss how they were applied in our various religious experiences, and talk about the psychological effects also. Concluding the episode, we focus on recovery after leaving religion or a high-control group, offering up helpful tips and experience gained not only in our own lives, but that of others from whom we've found helpful advice. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast

I finally caught up with Lucas Wilson after months of emailing each other to set up this interview. And am I ever glad that I did! We had a fantastic conversation that I truly believe you will enjoy and learn a lot from. Lucas--or Luke--originally hails from Toronto, Canada, and as a young man ended up attending Jerry Falwell's Liberty University, with a view to engaging in so-called "conversion therapy." This is the controversial notion that somehow, if you're gay or have same-sex attraction on any level, God wants to "make you straight." Not only that, but by doing conversion therapy, it will definitely happen. Aided by dubious psychological and biblical backing, conversion therapy can be incredibly damaging to those in the LGBTQ+ community, but who also happen to be Christians. This misguided theory oftentimes does a huge amount of damage psychologically and in other ways. Find Luke's book here: Shame-Sex Attraction: Survivor's Stories of Conversion Therapy Help support the show by joining The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Email: [email protected]

Recently, a listener asked me if I would explore the potential connections between Vance Boelter--the gunman who recently killed 2 Democratic lawmakers in Minnesota, and wounded 2 more--and the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). The question posed was this: "Was Vance Boelter radicalized by his experiences within the NAR?" Beyond that, how do we know that Boelter was in fact a part of this increasingly radical movement that has taken the Christian Right by storm since the first Trump era? And did that association with the NAR's increasingly violent and incendiary rhetoric lead him to go on his rampage that resulted in the deaths of two people, and the severe wounding of two others? In this deep dive episode, I investigate the connections not only between Boelter and the NAR, but also to the tragic and violent history of the violence committed by radical Christian anti-abortion advocates. I'll also demonstrate just how extreme and violent the language being used by leading NAR figures is becoming, and how that all may have contributed to Boelter doing what he did. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast Email: [email protected]

Although Chris Shelton and I just did an episode on Project Esther recently, there were a lot of details that we didn't have time to dive into. As the story develops, and more information comes out, there have been some truly concerning developments that have taken place. Thus, in this special episode, I'm bringing you all the details behind Project Esther. This is, of course, the brainchild of The Heritage Foundation, authors of Project 2025. If you've noticed the trend on both social and mainstream media of labeling anyone "antisemitic" for speaking out against Israel's actions in Gaza, or taking part in a demonstration or protest, then this is the fruit of Project Esther. Trump's ongoing war against Harvard is part and parcel of it also. As we'll see, Trump has already enacted about one-half of the policy recommendations as laid out in Project Esther, a draconian set of actions that is designed to tamp down on--or obliterate entirely--our constitutional rights, such as: freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and the right to due process. Let me know your thoughts, comments, or questions on this episode by emailing me: [email protected]. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast

In this special bonus episode, former Scientologist Chris Shelton and I take a deep dive into a controversial new development in Trumpworld: Project Esther. This story originally broke a few weeks ago in The New York Times, and has now been picked up in other media outlets. The brainchild of The Heritage Foundation, authors of Project 2025 and major policy advisors to Trump, Project Esther is a policy paper ostensibly designed to crack down on antisemitism in the United States. Timed to coincide with the one-year anniversary of the Hamas attack on Israel, Project Esther is in reality a bait-and-switch operation designed to eliminate basic rights such as free speech, freedom of assembly, due process for foreign students targeted for deportation, and more. We're also seeing the potential of cutting off federal funds to universities like Harvard for their "handling of antisemitism" as well as their tolerance of pro-Palestine demonstrations on campus. The truly frightening aspect of this draconian crackdown is that it's already in the works--approximately half of its policy recommendations have been enacted by Trump. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrine

This week's episode features an insightful conversation with Regina Cates, author of the book The Real Conversation Jesus Wants Us To Have: A Call To Bravery, Peace, and Love. At first, when I heard the title of the book, I was understandably sceptical. I figured Regina was just another progressive Christian trying to rehabilitate the church, the gospels, and the "true" message of Jesus. But that's not what her book is about, and neither is that what this conversation is about. Regina is an amazing woman with a powerful story to tell of her own Christian upbringing, deconstructing at an early age, and questioning everything she was taught by the church. That led to inevitable conflict from both parents and church authorities...and now, here she is, decades later, with a powerful message to proclaim. Find a copy of Regina's book here on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrine

Christian nationalism, by its very nature, is anti-democratic. I have come to believe that not only is this true, but it poses a serious threat to democracy not just in America, but indeed the world. With Donald Trump back in power--aided and abetted by another overwhelming majority of evangelicals--we are seeing the guardrails blown through and democracy gutted. Behind a lot of it is the notion that "Christians should take dominion over the world"--and in particular, the so-called "7 mountains of culture." Driven by agendas such as The Heritage Foundation's "Project 2025" and the America First Policy Institute, these Christian nationalist think tanks are providing Trump with much of the agendas, policies, and Executive Orders we've already seen that are driving his administration forward. Dr Matthew Boedy--himself a Christian--is an expert on this subject, having researched it extensively in preparation for writing his upcoming book, The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy. It comes out in September, but you can pre-order it here on Amazon on this link. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast

It's finally arrived! This week's long-overdue discussion is here, featuring a super informative and helpful conversation with Tim Mills, host of "The Harmonic Atheist" podcast and YouTube channel. As a faithful Christian virtually all of his life, Tim has an unbelievable testimony--and this is not just about how dedicated he was both to God and the church. It also includes his tale of what led to his deconstruction, leaving the faith and becoming an atheist, and now as one who speaks out against the damage Christianity can often do. But beyond merely dismantling aspects of the Christian faith, Tim also offers up incredibly helpful insights to help you recover from the harmful effects of religion and begin to recover your authentic self. Subscribe to The Harmonic Atheist YouTube channel! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community Follow me on Threads @dismantlingdoctrinepodcast

This episodes features a wide-ranging and super helpful discussion with Austra Putnina, host of the "Chase The Impossible" podcast. Originally from Latvia, Austra now lives in Estonia--and has an amazing backstory. Ever struggle with the impostor syndrome? Ever struggle with those "tapes" that seem to play all the time in your mind? The ones that hold you back, the insidious messages that constantly tell us we're not good enough, that we don't measure up to some standard? It turns out that Austra has battled not only these issues, but more...and when she shares her journey, not only will you be inspired, hopefully you'll pick up some great coping strategies to help you navigate life along the way. Connect with Austra on Udemy! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on BlueSky @dismantledoctrine

I'm excited to be sharing the next two chapters from my book that came out last September. It's called Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work, and was edited by my good friend Tim Sledge. If you haven't picked up a copy of the book yet, hopefully hearing these two chapters will make the decision much easier. The book tells my story of growing up in a fundamentalist Christian home that, although looking great on the outside, wasn't so shiny and happy. Enjoy these two chapters and please let me know what your thoughts are about the content! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on BlueSky @dismantledoctrine

This episode features an insightful conversation with former Southern Baptist Convention pastor--and now exvangelicala life coach and guide--Rob Connelly. After spending 37 years as a dedicated evangelical Christian, serving as a worship leader and pastor, Rob finally deconstructed his faith and walked away from it all. He's now sharing not only his reflective music with the world, he helps individuals surviving religious abuse and religious trauma syndrome. Listen in at the end of the show for Rob's original song, "Good Friday" and see if you resonate with its heartfelt message. Connect with Rob on his website! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on BlueSky @dismantledoctrine

In this episode I'm joined once again by my very good friend, Chris Shelton, to revisit the issue of Trump's Project 2025 agenda. How concerned should you be, going forward? Last summer I started alerting listeners about the dangers posed by Project 2025's Mandate for Leadership, all designed as part of The Heritage Foundation's "presidential transition project" should Trump win the presidency. Now that he has been sworn in, and signed a blizzard of Executive Orders, many of these follow closely the Project 2025 policy agendas. Chris and I break down not only what some of these are, and who is behind them, but unpack also some of the wider dangers posed to American democracy over the next four years. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on BlueSky @dismantledoctrine.bsky.social

Welcome to the first episode of The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast for 2025! This inaugural episode features a catch-up conversation with two old friends, Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. They are the authors of the classic 1978 work on cults and mind control entitled Snapping: America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change. Their research into cult psychology and tactics led them, in the late 1970s and early 80s, to investigate what was then the nascent Christian Right's involvement in American politics. They also noticed how much evangelicalism and fundamentalist Christianity had in common with the world of the cults. Currently they've released an update to their original 1982 book Holy Terror: The Fundamentalist War on America's Freedoms in Religion, Politics, and Our Private Lives. The "classic edition," which is now available, gives the reader new perspectives on the evangelical involvement in the Trump era. Find the new version of Holy Terror now available on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018

For this final podcast of 2024, I recently connected with Lauryn Axelrod--she's an interfaith/interspiritual minister, chaplain, spiritual director, and teacher out of Vermont. This is an especially poignant interview, as I've talked to several people this year about concepts of spirituality. Lauryn's suggestion that incorporating "Ten Words" into your life, as guiding principles or values, can indeed make the world a better place. This is all the more relevant now that America is so deeply divided and polarized, both politically and religiously. The question is: what can all the major religious worldviews and traditions teach us about spirituality? Dogma and doctrines aside, are there commonalities behind them all from which we can gain insights and understanding? And above all--is it indeed possible to make the world a better place by embracing interspirituality? Find out more about Lauryn on her site https://www.laurynaxelrod.com/ Get a copy of Lauryn's Book Ten Words on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on X@MindShift2018

I recently caught up with returning guest Cait West, who has just come out with a great book entitled Rift: A Memoir of Breaking Away From Christian Patriarchy. Cait grew up in what is called the "stay-at-home-daughters" movement, which is a version of Christian patriarchy that, while seemingly extreme, is gaining traction in a lot of Christian homes. Driven by the teachings of men like Doug Wilson, Joel Webbon, and other leading evangelical figures, Christian or biblical patriarchy teaches that women should be in submission to their fathers and husbands--exactly what they believe the Bible teaches clearly. What is more concerning is that now, with Donald Trump in office for the next 4 years, Christian nationalists now have even more influence over laws and policies that affect Americans. That they want to run the government the same ways in which they run their churches, denominations, and families should be of major concern to everyone going forward. Find out more information about Cait's book here: https://www.caitwest.com/book Check out the "For Our Daughters" documentary here on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkES4X_qb6c Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018

This week's guest features author Karen Unrue, whose book Blue Jellyfish Syndrome: How To Break Free From Stigma and Maintain Hope While Living With a Mental Illness is a great resource for those who have left either controlling religion or abusive relationships behind. But simply escaping is far from the end of the story. We can still be triggered by intrusive thoughts from our past that are debilitating and can blindside us. Unpicking the layers of conditioning is also extremely difficult, especially for those of us raised in controlling religious environments. And it's also the impact of the various traumas we've experienced that oftentimes linger with us for decades, long after the event that caused it is years in the past. Karen offers practical advice, helpful insights, and valuable resources to help us move forward and rebuild our authentic selves. Get a copy of Karen's book on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow Me on X@MindShift2018

In this special election special bonus episode, I reached out to returning guest Matthew D Taylor, who has just come out with a brand-new book called The Violent Take it by Force: The Christian Movement that is Threatening Our Democracy.  For those who are still undecided about their vote in the upcoming election, this is a must-listen. Given the fact that so much of the Trump MAGA support is generated by not just Christian nationalists, but extremists who are part of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), this is a major concern going forward. Matthew puts all the pieces together in this hugely informative discussion, telling the story of exactly how these so-called "apostles and prophets" coalesced together and found themselves part of Trump's inner circle of spiritual advisers during his presidency. Now, they are mobilizing tens of thousands of angry evangelicals not only to vote for Trump, but to engage in political violence should he lose the election. The threat to American democracy is clear, and these people have had four years to prepare themselves for whatever happens following this hugely important election. Find The Violent Take it by Force here on Amazon! Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow Me On X @MindShift2018

This week's episode takes an in-depth look at the tragic murder/suicide that took place in Jonestown, Guyana, in 1978. Cult leader Jim Jones was responsible for not only controlling and manipulating his numerous dedicated followers, in the end, he forced nearly 1000 of them to commit suicide or be murdered. In the wake of this tragedy that occurred decades ago, Annie Dawid's book--a work of historical fiction--takes a fresh look at the lives of the followers of Jones. Not much is said about them, yet they were the backbone of the movement that on certain levels did accomplish many good things for a number of people. Beyond discussing her book, we also take a look at Jones's story, tracing the early start of The People's Temple in Indiana, looking at its moves to California and ultimately Guyana. That it ended in such a shocking way still has enduring lessons for us today, especially in the explosion of cults and cult leaders since the tragedy at Jonestown all those years ago. Find Annie's book on Amazon here: Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on X @MindShift2018

If you've been following the storyline of what's happening to Project 2025, The Heritage Foundation, and Trump's presidential campaign, then you'll be familiar with some of what Chris Shelton and I discuss in this episode. There have been a number of important developments in this ongoing narrative, as Project 2025 began to be increasingly exposed by shows just like this one as well as on the mainstream media. Since then, not only has Trump attempted to deny and distance himself from it--as well as The Heritage Foundation--some other players have quietly stepped into the breach with a newly-proposed "presidential transition project." Not only do we discuss this new twist, we delve into the cult psychology and tactics used by such shadowy groups, but also of Trump himself, as he controls, manipulates, and influences his ultra-loyal MAGA cult base. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X@MindShift2018

How many of us have left religious beliefs behind, but have not entertained the idea that we might be able to find an aspect of spirituality that is truly meaningful? For those of us who've left controlling religions, it can be incredibly difficult even to entertain the notion that there might even be any aspect of spirituality that is appealing to us. But we might be closing ourselves off to deeper meaning and exploration if we refuse to acknowledge that there just might be something out there. Author Larry Jordan was a successful businessman who turned his back on the American dream, embracing service to others and in the process read over 1,000 books researching and exploring philosophy, religion, mysticism, and more. In the process he discovered something that truly changed his life--find out more in this fascinating interview! Find Larry's book The Way: Meaningful Spirituality for a Modern World here on Amazon. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on X@MindShift2018

For the first time ever, my show has been hijacked! My very good friend Tim Sledge, who is the editor and publisher of my new book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work interviewed me recently about my book. Aside from me, there is nobody else on Earth who knows more about my book, as we have been working closely on it for about a year now. Tim is not only intimately connected with the book, as a former evangelical pastor and ex-Christian himself, Tim resonates a great deal with my story. I hope you enjoy this interview--and please, if you do buy a copy of my book on Amazon, do me a huge favor and leave a review! That helps greatly with the Amazon rankings. Link to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People on Amazon If the link doesn't work, on Amazon type in "Not So Shiny Not So Happy People Clint Heacock" and it will quickly locate the book. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast Patreon Community! Follow me on X@MindShift2018

I'm excited to announce that my new book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work is now available as of today!! The book is available as a paperback, Kindle EBook, and Audible Virtual Voice versions now. In this special episode, I'm reading the Preface chapter to the book, which is called "The Terror of an Empty House." I hope that not only do you enjoy this chapter, but that it prompts you to go out and buy the book. After you've read it, please leave a review on Amazon, which greatly helps with the book's rankings--and share the book with anyone who you think will resonate with its message. Here's the link on Amazon to Not So Shiny Not So Happy People. Join The Dismantling Doctrine Patreon Community! Follow me on X@MindShift2018