The Ministry Edge Podcast

You've probably talked about the younger generation leaving the church. But have you actually talked to them?In this episode, Chad sits down with Ava and Ethan, two members of the Keenly team who are actively engaged in ministry and the local church, to have the conversation most church leaders are having about younger generations, but rarely with them. Their perspective is unique because they aren't disconnected from the church. They're in it, and they have something to say.In this episode, you'll hear:The perceptions younger people actually have about church and why leadership is responsible for changing themWhat makes a church feel genuinely trustworthy and authentic to a younger generationWhy young adults crave connection and community in church, and why solid Bible teaching matters more than big productionThis generation isn't as disengaged as you think. But they are paying closer attention than you realize.If this conversation connects with you, we'd love to hear from you. Visit keenly.org to connect with the Keenly team.

The most dangerous person in your congregation isn't someone who left. It's someone who stayed and stopped growing. They're comfortable, they're invisible, and there are more of them than you think.In this episode, Chad and Jason pick up where Part 1 left off and tackle one of the most overlooked problems in church health. Not getting people in the door, but getting the people already in the seats to actually engage.In this episode, you'll hear:Why churches often create spectators without realizing it, and what it's quietly costing youWhy people don't step up, and why the answer is rarely lazinessThe difference between a stage announcement and a personal ask, and why one almost never worksHow to design on-ramps that feel like an invitation, not a contractWhat it looks like to build a culture where participation is the norm, not the exceptionThe challenge at the end of this episode is simple but uncomfortable. We hope you will try it anyway.This is Part 2 of a 2-part conversation. If something resonated, we'd love to keep that conversation going. Visit keenly.org to connect with the Keenly team.

Most churches are better at attracting first-time guests than they are at keeping them. The gap isn't the welcome.... it's everything that happens in the next 30 days.Someone walked through your doors, grabbed a bulletin, found a seat, and then left. Do you have a plan for what happens next? Most churches don't, and that silence is louder than you think.In this episode, Jason and Chad walk through what a first-time guest is actually experiencing from the moment they pull into your parking lot to the moment they decide whether or not to come back.In this episode, you'll hear:What a church shopper is really asking when they walk through your doorsWhy the first 7 minutes inside your building matter more than the sermonWhat "friendly" actually means to a newcomer versus what most churches think it meansWhy follow-up timing matters and what to say when you reach outIf someone visited your church last Sunday, could you map out their next 30 days? This episode will help you answer that.This is Part 1 of a 2-part conversation. Visit keenly.org to connect with the Keenly team.

Every pastor has asked it. Most just never say it out loud.That quiet question “am I actually called to this?” has a way of showing up at the worst moments. When you're exhausted. When there's conflict. When the growth you expected isn't coming. And instead of sitting with the question, most leaders either push it down or panic, but neither one helps.In this episode, Chad and Jason create space for one of the most personal and rarely discussed tensions in ministry leadership… and reframe the question entirely.In this episode, you'll hear:Why doubt doesn't disqualify you, and why the question itself might not be about calling at allThe difference between your calling and your current fit, and why confusing the two leads to burnout and bad decisionsHow emotion, exhaustion, and isolation can masquerade as a calling crisis, and what to do insteadWhy calling is rarely meant to be discerned alone, and how community and wise counsel change everythingHow to ask better questions before making a big moveThis might be the conversation you didn't know you needed. If you're in that tension right now, don't process it alone. Reach out to us at keenly.org, we'd love to walk through it with you.

Before you assume it's a money problem, it might be worth asking a different question entirely.Giving isn't just about finances. And the churches that understand that tend to see something shift,  not just in generosity, but in the way people show up, invest, and connect to what God is doing. That kind of culture doesn't come from a campaign. It comes from something much deeper.In this episode, Jason and Chad unpack why people hold back and why the answer is rarely what leaders expect.In this episode, you'll hear:Why people aren't resisting giving, they're responding to something, and what that something usually isHow trust and transparency directly shape whether generosity grows or stalls in your churchWhy connecting people to the story of what God is doing matters more than any giving strategy ever willGenerosity isn't something you can ask people into. It's something they step into when they feel connected, confident, and part of something bigger than themselves.Keenly can help you find and tell that story. Visit keenly.org to start the conversation.

"It's the music". At least, that's what many people say.Pastors have been hearing surface-level exit reasons for years: the worship style, the kids program, the Sunday schedule. And honestly? It's easier to accept those answers than to ask what's really going on. Because what if the real reason people are leaving has less to do with them and more to do with your church?It's a hard question. And most leaders never ask it.In this episode, Jason and Chad go beyond the stated reasons and into what's actually driving people out the door… the things nobody says out loud when they leave.In this episode, you'll hear:Why the reasons people give for leaving are almost never the real reasonsThe relational hurt, lack of connection, and spiritual unhealthiness that people are too uncomfortable to name on their way outWhy turning a blind eye to the real reasons doesn't just lose one family... it sets up the next one to leave the same wayThe question isn't just why are they leaving. It's whether you're willing to ask. Keenly exists to help you find those answers. Visit keenly.org to start the conversation.

Something feels off. You can sense it. But saying it out loud to your board, your staff, or even yourself, feels like a risk you can't afford to take.If you've been there, you're not alone. And in this episode, Jason and Chad name exactly why that moment is so hard for pastors and ministry leaders.The church isn't just a job. You're supposed to have the answers. Admitting something might be broken puts your leadership, your reputation, and sometimes your livelihood on the line. Most pastors don't get a second chance, they get one shot, and it started the day they were hired. That reality turns honest questions into personal risk, and personal risk into silence.In this episode, Jason and Chad unpack:Why self-examination feels threatening and why that's especially true in ministryThe real cost of staying quiet: churches that slowly decline, people who aren't shepherded well, and leaders carrying more than they shouldWhy pastors are held to a different standard than everyone else in the room and how that shapes whether hard questions ever get askedWhat it looks like to create space where those questions are actually safe to askThe cost is too high not to ask the hard questions. This episode sets the foundation for everything Season 2 is going to dig into.Keenly exists to be that space for you. Visit keenly.org to start the conversation.

We recorded a full season of a podcast about ministry health, leadership, and doing better ministry… and never actually told you who we are or why we're qualified to speak into any of it. That's a perception problem, and it's exactly the kind of thing we're going to be talking about this season.So before we go any further, Jason and Chad hit pause to introduce themselves, and their stories are about as different as they get.One grew up in a pastor's home, watching ministry up close from the inside. The other grew up outside the church entirely, spent years in college trying to disprove faith, and found his calling in the last place he expected. But both arrived at the same conviction: ministry deserves more than looking healthy. It needs to actually be healthy.In this episode, you'll hear:How two very different backgrounds shaped a shared passion for honest, effective ministryWhy Jason's upbringing gave him a unique lens for spotting the gap between how ministry looks and how it actually functionsHow Chad went from studying evolutionary biology to leading a youth ministry, and and how that outside-in journey shapes the way he sees and speaks into ministry todayWhat's driving Keenly and why "better ministry everywhere" means getting to the root, not just the surfaceIf you've ever wondered who's behind the mic and whether they get what you're actually dealing with, start here.Visit keenly.org to learn more or connect with the Keenly team.

Chad and Jason wrap up the first season of the Keenly Podcast by recapping church health, metrics, and issues pastors and ministry leaders face. Thank you to everyone who listened in over the past few months. We are so excited for what’s in store and hope you can join us for what’s next.

In this episode, Chad and Jason unpack generational ministry, and why the form of church may change, but the function never will. Building on a previous episode about nostalgia, they shift the focus to the future, sharing stories from seasons of change and what it’s looked like to “grow younger” without losing the mission.

Burnout isn’t just being tired. It’s chronic fatigue, loss of joy, and reduced effectiveness that often arrives slowly and quietly. Join Chad, Jason, Ethan, and Ava as they unpack what burnout really is, how it shows up in ministry and leadership, how they’ve navigated it in different seasons of life, and why boundaries and accountability aren’t optional when it comes to addressing it.

In this episode, Chad, Jason, and Ava explore how nostalgia shows up in leadership and ministry, not just as memory, but as a force that can quietly shape decisions and direction. They unpack why nostalgia happens, how emotional and spiritual connections to the past form, and when honoring what was begins to compete with vision for what’s next. This conversation is a challenge to  leaders to examine what they’re protecting, question what they’ve labeled “sacred,” and consider whether their longing for the past is helping them lead, or keeping them from moving forward.

Rumor has it… this week’s conversation is all about gossip. Chad, Jason, and Ava unpack how rumors often begin not with bad intent, but with curiosity filling the gaps where communication is unclear or siloed. When questions go unanswered, assumptions form, frustration grows, and what felt small can quickly become destructive.Through reflection and real leadership scenarios, they explore how speculation takes root and challenge leaders to own their role in shaping transparency and healthier communication. This episode invites leaders to address rumors early, lean into clarity, and lead in ways that leave less room for confusion and more room for trust.

Chad and Jason explore what happens when leaders assume clarity that isn’t actually shared. This conversation invites leaders to identify unexamined leadership jargon, recognize how perception shapes reality, and build a culture of feedback where messages are tested, refined, and actually understood by the people they’re meant to reach.

In this episode, Chad and Jason wrestle with a question many ministry leaders feel but rarely slow down to define: what does healthy growth actually look like? While churches often default to numbers to measure success, this conversation challenges the idea that growth is purely numeric. Instead, they explore how true health is found in alignment, life change, and shared clarity around what really matters. Through stories of transformation and honest reflection, they contrast business-style metrics with ministry fruit and invite leaders to rethink how they define health, resist comparison, and pursue growth that reflects real change in people’s lives.

Chad and Jason unpack how churches often borrow business-style scorecards like attendance, giving, number of programs and then quietly use those numbers to compare, compete, and judge success. Instead, they argue that the most important ‘metric’ is transformation: real stories of people growing, healing, serving, and living on mission. Through a rural church case study and honest reflections on board expectations and pastoral pressure, they contrast transactional metrics with a transformational lens, inviting leaders to rethink how they define and measure impact in their own context.

In this very first episode of the Keenly Podcast, we’re keeping it real. Chad Murrell and Jason Lehman sit down to talk about the heart behind Keenly and why we decided to step into the podcast space in the first place. It’s our first episode, which means there are a few glitches, plenty of learning along the way, and a lot of genuine conversation. But at the core is a simple desire: to help pastors and ministry leaders understand what’s happening, define a meaningful path forward, tell a compelling story, and ultimately do better ministry. This conversation sets the tone for what’s ahead. Thanks for joining us at the beginning.