The Sacred Slope

54. Father Dan Storrs (Old Roman Catholic) When Following Jesus Makes You the 'Wrong Kind of Christian'What happens when a gay Catholic priest keeps following Jesus - even after Christians tell him he doesn’t belong?Father Dan Storrs is an Old Roman Catholic priest whose journey has taken him through the Assemblies of God, the Baptist church, Eastern Orthodoxy, and eventually the Society of Mercy.And after all of that?“My journey has made me certain that certainty is the opposite of faith.”Father Dan joins Alexis Rice for a conversation about what happens when following Jesus means refusing the boundaries religious institutions have drawn around who belongs.Together they explore:• Why becoming more rooted in ancient Christianity made Father Dan more committed to mercy and inclusion - not less• Being gay, married, and called to the priesthood• What Protestants often misunderstand about Catholicism• Old Roman Catholicism and how it differs from Roman Catholicism• Why Father Dan believes the sacraments are for everyone• Mary, the Eucharist, and finding Jesus again after church hurt• Creating spiritual community for LGBTQ+ people wounded by churches• Why progressive Christian voices need to be more visible• His work with Endless Mountains Pride and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro’s LGBTQ+ Advisory Commission• Why clergy must stand beside survivors of sexual violence and abuse• What following Jesus this way has cost himThis isn’t a conversation about deciding whether Catholics or Protestants have Christianity right.It’s an invitation to ask: What beauty might we have missed because we were taught to be suspicious of someone else’s way of following Jesus?As Father Dan says, “If Jesus could make space for Judas, then we can make space for each other.”✨ Guest• Father Dan Storrs - Old Roman Catholic priest, Society of Mercy; Pastor, Holy Name of Mary Catholic Chapel; President, Endless Mountains Pride• Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube: @FatherDanStorrs⛪ Church & Organizations• Holy Name of Mary Catholic Chapel - Facebook & YouTube: @holynamemary• Society of Mercy• Endless Mountains Pride• Pennsylvania Governor’s Advisory Commission on LGBTQ Affairs - @GovernorShapiro• Abuse & Rape Crisis Center of Bradford County⚠️ Content NoteThis episode includes discussion of sexual assault, abuse, church trauma, and survivor advocacy.If you or someone you know has experienced sexual assault or abuse, RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline provides free, confidential support 24/7:• Call 800-656-HOPE (4673)• Text HOPE to 64673• RAINN National Sexual Assault Hotline⏱️ Chapters00:00 Ministry for people the Church left behind07:06 Meet Father Dan Storrs15:28 “Certainty is the opposite of faith”20:10 Following Jesus into unexpected places26:33 Gay, Catholic & making room for everyone30:02 Finding home in Catholicism35:56 What is Old Roman Catholicism?42:49 Communion, Utrecht & Alexis’s Catholic surprise47:20 Why inclusive priests need to be online53:42 Mary, church hurt & finding Jesus again57:40 LGBTQ+ advocacy & Governor Shapiro’s commission1:06:02 Standing with survivors of sexual violence1:12:04 “Following Jesus has cost me everything”1:15:44 A prayer for people wounded by the Church1:22:07 Antiquing, running & Father Dan beyond ministry#Christianity #Catholic #OldRomanCatholic #LGBTQChristians #GayChristian #ProgressiveChristianity #ChurchHurt #Deconstruction #Exvangelical #FaithSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

53. Dr. Samantha Bise (Lutheran, ELCA) Tongue in Church, a Liberating Primer on Christian VocabularyWhat if the Christian words you have heard your entire life do not mean exactly what you were taught?Dr. Samantha Bise joins Alexis Rice to unpack the history, translation, culture, and power hiding inside familiar words like virgin, salvation, gospel, Savior, and born again.An author, educator, researcher, and adult convert to Christianity, Samantha studies how language shapes belief. Her new book, Tongue in Church: A Liberating Primer on Christian Vocabulary, asks Christians to slow down and learn what our own words have meant across thousands of years, cultures, empires, and translations.Together they explore:• How “young woman” became “virgin” in the story of Mary• Why questioning Mary’s virginity does not have to unravel your faith• How salvation became primarily about escaping hell, even though its biblical roots include healing, liberation, safety, and freedom from oppression• Why Lord, Savior, Son of God, and gospel were politically charged words in the Roman Empire• How “born again” became an identity marker in American evangelicalism• What mission trips can teach us about Christianity, colonization, and conversion• Why churches that control women often disregard the earth too• The difference between faith that manipulates through fear and faith that makes room for mystery• Why “the Bible is clear” is rarely as clear as people claimSamantha also shares her unexpected path from outspoken atheist to ELCA Lutheran, the church that fed Appalachian Trail hikers without trying to convert them, and the painful altar call at her grandmother’s funeral that inspired this book.This is not a conversation about tearing down scripture. It is an invitation to take scripture and its language seriously, loosen our grip on false certainty, and discover a faith spacious enough for questions.As Samantha says, “There’s not one pure Christianity.” From the beginning, Christians have debated, negotiated, wrestled, and wondered. That wrestling is part of the tradition.✨ Guest• Dr. Samantha Bise: Author, educator, researcher, professor, co-host of Church Chatter, and ELCA Lutheran | IG: @dr.bise📚 Book & Resources Mentioned• Tongue in Church: A Liberating Primer on Christian Vocabulary by Dr. Samantha Bise | @thepilgrimpresshttps://thepilgrimpress.com/products/tongue-in-church-a-liberating-primer-on-christian-vocabulary• Evangelical Lutheran Church in America @elca• The Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns @peteenns• Don’t Sleep, There Are Snakes by Daniel Everett• Marcus Borg on salvation#TongueInChurch #Christianity #Deconstruction #Exvangelical #ProgressiveChristianity #Bible #ELCA #FaithSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

52. A Different Side of Miss Peppermint: Growing Up in Church, Activism & Christian Nationalism’s Impact on the Trans CommunityWhat changes when we simply listen? In this moment in history, listening and empathy are essential.Miss Peppermint joins Alexis Rice for a joyful, vulnerable conversation about faith, storytelling, tea, Christian nationalism, and what the trans community needs from allies now.Raised in Presbyterian and Southern Baptist churches, Miss Peppermint remembers the music and community, as well as anti-LGBTQ teachings from the pulpit. Though she is no longer a practicing Christian, she explains why she chose this conversation.Together they explore:• How anti-LGBTQ theology affects queer and trans people• How Christian nationalism weaponizes faith, fear, power, and violence• What it means for a church to be truly open and affirming• Why rainbow branding and shared identity are not enough• Housing, healthcare, food, safety, employment, and workplace protections• Why churches, labor movements, and LGBTQ+ communities should organize together• Drag Race, Broadway, Survival of the Thickest, Love Is Blind, scary movies, sports, and mint chocolate chip ice creamShe also shares the story behind Transcendence, the color-changing tea she created with @moody.teas. A portion of every purchase supports @transequalitynow and its work for trans rights and essential resources.Transcendence: https://shop.moodyteas.co/shop/transcendence-color-changing-joy-blend-with-miss-peppermint-3415This conversation does not ask Miss Peppermint to defend her humanity. It makes room for Christians to hear how our faith has affected her and decide what love of neighbor requires from us now.✨ Guest• Miss Peppermint: Actress, singer, Broadway performer, activist, @glaad and @aclu_nationwide board member, and @nycpride Grand Marshal | IG: @peppermint247📚 People, Projects & Resources Mentioned• Moody Teas @moody.teas | Advocates for Trans Equality @transequalitynow• John Fugelsang, Separation of Church and Hate @johnfugelsang• Andrew Whitehead, American Idolatry @andrewwhitehead• The Necessary Conversation @thenecessaryconversationpod• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde @mariannbudde | James Talarico @jamestalarico• Rev. Brandan Robertson, Queer & Christian @brandanrobertson• Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez, Conversion Therapy Dropout @timothy.s.rodriguez• Kathy V. Baldock, Forging a Sacred Weapon @kathyvbaldock• Rocky Roggio, 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture @1946themovie• Rev. Jim Keat @revjimruns | Riverside Church @riversidenyc• Michelle Buteau @michellebuteau | Netflix @netflix Survival of the Thickest• Lance Bass @lancebass | Joey Fatone @realjoeyfatone | Cocktail Wars @cocktailwarstv• Zohran Mamdani @zohrankmamdani | AOC @aoc | Kristin Chenoweth @kchenoweth | Don Lemon @donlemonofficial• RuPaul’s Drag Race @rupaulsdragraceFootage courtesy of Netflix and E!#MissPeppermint #TransRights #ChristianNationalism #Christianity #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #LGBTQSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 51. Same Faith. Different Beliefs. Still Christian. (Part 2) – Rev. Gerlyn Henry (Anglican, Canada), Pastor Paul Drees (ELCA Lutheran, USA) & Pastor Joe Smith (Post-Evangelical, USA)What were you taught you had to believe in order to be a Christian?And what happened when you started asking questions?In Part 2 of this conversation, Alexis Rice returns with Rev. Gerlyn Henry, Pastor Paul Drees, and Pastor Joe Smith to finish the viral “Put Your Finger Down: Christian Edition” experiment that revealed just how differently Christians can be formed—even while following the same Jesus.This time, the questions move into some of the places where faith, politics, identity, and fear collide.Together they explore:• Abortion, reproductive rights & whether there is one “Christian” position• Evolution, creation & science• The assumption that Christians should vote Republican• Christian nationalism, political power & the American Church• Biblical literalism, inerrancy & how seminaries teach Scripture• What happens when questioning theology costs you relationships• Why doubt may not be the opposite of faith• Purity culture, shame & sexuality• What Christians from different traditions can learn from one anotherJoe shares what happened when he began publicly questioning biblical inerrancy—and friendships with people he had loved for years simply disappeared.Paul talks about discovering ideas that challenged his politics not by abandoning the Bible, but by reading it more deeply.And Gerlyn offers another framework entirely: faith was never meant to mean certainty. Doubt, mystery, wrestling, trust, and seeking understanding can all belong inside a faithful Christian life.The conversation ends with a challenge that may be more important than debating what someone believes today:Ask what they were taught.What was church like when they were a child?What were they told they had to believe?What were they afraid to question?What happened if they did?Because if we want to understand the divisions inside Christianity—and the rise of Christian nationalism—we need to understand how people were formed.⛪ Guests• Rev. Gerlyn Henry — Anglican Church of Canada | IG: @gerlynhenry• Pastor Paul Drees — ELCA Lutheran | IG: @pastorpauldrees• Pastor Joe Smith — Post-Evangelical / Disciples of Christ | IG: @therealjoe.smith📚 People & Resources Mentioned• Andrew Whitehead — American Idolatry | IG: @andrewwhitehead• John Fugelsang | IG: @johnfugelsang• C.S. Lewis• Luther Seminary• Columbia Theological SeminaryAnd yes—if you stay until the end, the pastors reveal their celebrity crushes. 😂A huge thank you to Pastor Paul Drees, Pastor Joe Smith, and Rev. Gerlyn Henry for the vulnerability, humor, pastoral care, and generosity they brought to this two-part conversation.May we become more curious about one another’s formation—and a little less certain that our version of Christianity is the only one.#Christianity #Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #ChristianNationalism #Faith #ReligiousTrauma #BibleSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

50. Same Faith. Different Beliefs. Still Christian. (Part 1) – Rev. Gerlyn Henry (Anglican, Canada), Pastor Paul Drees (ELCA Lutheran, USA) & Pastor Joe Smith (Raised Evangelical, USA)What if something you were taught you had to believe to be Christian was something millions of other Christians were never taught at all?That question exploded after a Sacred Slope “Put Your Finger Down: Christian Edition” video reached more than a million views across platforms. The comments were filled with Christians from different traditions essentially asking one another: Wait…you were taught WHAT?So Alexis Rice reunites with Rev. Gerlyn Henry, Pastor Paul Drees, and Pastor Joe Smith for the conversation a two-minute video couldn’t hold.Alexis and Joe were formed in American evangelical and fundamentalist Christianity. Gerlyn is an Anglican priest in Canada. Paul is an ELCA Lutheran pastor in the U.S. They share a faith - but they were formed with remarkably different assumptions about what Christians must believe.In Part One, they compare notes on Genesis and the talking snake, biblical literalism, evolution, the sinner’s prayer, salvation, hell, baptism, confession, grace, and universalism.For Alexis and Joe, some of these beliefs once carried enormous stakes: Believe this. Pray this. Get this right. Your salvation may depend on it. For Gerlyn and Paul, some were never requirements at all.The result isn’t a debate over who is the “right” Christian. It’s an honest, funny, sometimes painful conversation about what happens when we become curious about the Christianity outside the one that formed us - and discover that questioning something we inherited doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning Jesus.Same faith. Different beliefs. Still Christian.💬 In This Episode• “Wait - you weren’t taught that?”• Genesis, talking snakes & biblical literalism• Creation, evolution & reading Scripture differently• Is the sinner’s prayer required for salvation?• Hell, baptism, confession & grace• Universalism & hopeful universalism• Religious trauma & the fear of questioning• Deconstructing certainty without abandoning Jesus• Saving people from hell vs. bringing heaven to earth• Discovering Christianity beyond the version you inherited⛪ Meet the Pastors• Rev. Gerlyn Henry - @gerlynhenry - Anglican priest, Canada • Pastor Paul Drees - @pastorpauldrees - ELCA Lutheran pastor, USA • Pastor Joe Smith - @therealjoe.smith raised Free Will Baptist/evangelical; Disciples of Christ pastor, USA📚 People & Resources Mentioned• Pete Enns - @peteenns - The Sin of Certainty• Pastor Meredith Anne Miller - @meredithannemiller - Wonder & Woven • Brian Recker - @berecker - Hell Bent • Bradley Jersak - @bradley.jersak - A More Christlike God • C.S. Lewis - “true myth” • Nadia Bolz-Weber - @sarcasticlutheran • Dolores Williams • Brené Brown - @brenebrown • Church Clarity - @churchclarity • AllianceQ• 1946 @1946themovie🎧 Part One of a special two-part Sacred Slope conversation.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

49. Matthew Paul Turner – (Author, When I Thank God) Giving Our Kids a Faith They Don’t Have to Heal FromNew York Times bestselling children’s author Matthew Paul Turner joins The Sacred Slope for a conversation about the stories we tell children about God—and the ones many adults are still learning to tell themselves.Alexis and Matthew explore why children don’t get to choose their first picture of God, how children’s books can become unexpected spaces of healing for adults deconstructing harmful theology, and what it means to raise kids with a faith rooted in love, belonging, gratitude, justice, and the teachings of Jesus.Matthew shares the story behind his new book, When I Thank God, illustrated by David Catrow, and why gratitude has remained one of the few spiritual practices that stayed with him through fundamentalism, deconstruction, coming out, and rebuilding his faith.They also talk honestly about Christian nationalism, the Americanization of Christianity, why humility and justice are central to following Jesus, LGBTQ+ inclusion, and what Christians can actually do to make their communities more loving.And Matthew reflects movingly on his friendship with the late Rachel Held Evans, finishing the children’s books she left behind, and why her legacy continues to change lives.💬 In This Episode• Giving children a picture of God they won’t have to heal from• Why children’s books can help deconstructing adults heal• When I Thank God and gratitude as a spiritual practice• Following Jesus in an age of Christian nationalism• Deconstructing whiteness and Americanized Christianity• Why humility, justice, compassion, and belonging matter• LGBTQ+ inclusion and showing up visibly for your neighbors• The Growing Wall of Love at World Pride Amsterdam• Matthew’s friendship with Rachel Held Evans• Finishing Rachel’s children’s books after her death• What Is God Like? and the upcoming Who Is Jesus?• Rebuilding a Christianity centered on making things better, more hopeful, and more loving📚 Matthew Paul TurnerMatthew is the bestselling author of When God Made You, When God Made Light, You Will Always Belong, and the new When I Thank God.Follow Matthew: @matthewpaulturner👥 People & Resources Mentioned• Rachel Held Evans – @rachelheldevans• Sarah Bessey – @sarahbessey• Meredith Anne Miller – @meredithannemiller• Rocky Roggio / 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture – @rockyroggio• Jarko de Witte van Leeuwen / The Growing Wall of Love – @thegrowingwalloflove• David Catrow – @davidcatrow illustrator of When I Thank God• Danny McBride / The Righteous Gemstones @therighteousgemstones📖 When I Thank God releases August 18Pre-Order from The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

48. John Fugelsang –  (Aspiring Christian) Separation of Church and Hate: Reclaiming Jesus from Christian NationalismJohn Fugelsang returns to The Sacred Slope for a deeper conversation about the book Alexis named the very first Sacred Slope Book of the Year: Separation of Church and Hate: A Sane Person’s Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds.Together, they explore why so many Christians and non-Christians alike have embraced the book, what it means to distinguish the teachings of Jesus from Christian nationalism, and why reclaiming Christianity from fear, power, and authoritarianism matters now more than ever.John reflects on growing up with faith, writing a New York Times bestselling book that speaks to believers and skeptics alike, and why he believes Jesus remains one of history’s most radically compassionate voices. Alexis and John also discuss biblical literacy, Matthew 25, Christian resistance throughout history, and how ordinary Christians can push back against the weaponization of faith without becoming consumed by hatred themselves.Whether you’re deconstructing, reconstructing, politically exhausted, or simply longing for a Christianity that looks more like Jesus than power, this conversation offers hope, humor, and practical ways to engage difficult conversations with compassion and courage.📚 Listeners outside the U.S.: Separation of Church and Hate is now available internationally!💬 In This Episode• Why Separation of Church and Hate became The Sacred Slope’s first Book of the Year • What surprised John most after the book became a New York Times bestseller • Why Christians, atheists, and agnostics are embracing the book • Christianity versus Christian nationalism • Following Jesus versus simply following the Bible • Matthew 25 and the teachings Jesus actually emphasized • Why Jesus challenged power, wealth, and religious coercion • Christian resistance throughout history—from the abolitionists to Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. • Christian nationalism, fear, power, and authoritarianism • How to respond to difficult conversations using scripture with compassion rather than contempt • Why reclaiming Jesus matters for believers and non-believers alikeCongratulations to This Year’s Book of the Year Nominees!📖 Braving the Truth – @rachelheldevans & @sarahbessey 📖 Hell Bent – @berecker 📖 We Can Be Brave & I Can Learn to Be Brave – Bishop @mariannbudde 📖 Live Laugh Love – @kkdumez 📖 The Small and the Mighty & We Are Mighty – @sharonsaysso 📖 Separation of Church and Hate – @johnfugelsang 📖 American Idolatry – @ndrewwhitehead 📖 Queer & Christian – Rev. @brandanrobertson 📖 Awake – @jenhatmaker 📖 Wonder – Pastor @meredithannemiller🏆 The Sacred Slope Book of the YearJohn Fugelsang Separation of Church and HateCongratulations, @johnfugelsang, and thank you to every author who shared your wisdom with The Sacred Slope community this year.👥 People & Resources Mentioned• Mayor Zohran Mamdani – @zohrankmamdani & @nycmayor • Simon Moya-Smith – @simonsaidtakeapic • Julie Francella – @juliefrancella • Jordan Klepper – @jordanklepper • The Daily Show – @thedailyshowSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

47. Rev. Jim Keat, Rev. Reilly Paige, & Rev. Dr. Chris Davies (United Church of Christ) – Preaching Camp: The Ties That BindAlexis sits down in person at Project Proclaim Preaching Camp with Rev. Reilly Paige, Rev. Dr. Chris Davies, and Rev. Jim Keat for a funny, moving, and deeply hopeful conversation about the ties that bind us - to Jesus, to one another, and to a faith larger than fear, fundamentalism, or the loudest version of American Christianity.Together, they explore what keeps them following Jesus and what happens when Christians from evangelical and mainline traditions learn to speak across very different theological languages. Reilly shares what it means to be the pastor they needed growing up and why the word “Christian” now requires follow-up questions. Chris describes Jesus as friend, teacher, organizer, prophet, and a model for resisting empire. Jim reflects on Christianity as the spiritual language he inherited - and how digital ministry can create genuine church community far beyond a sanctuary.Whether you are deconstructing, rebuilding, missing church, or wondering whether you can fall in love with Jesus again, this conversation offers a vision of Christianity rooted in relationship, curiosity, courage, belonging, and genuinely good news.💬 In This Episode• What keeps Rev Reilly, Rev Dr Chris, and Rev Jim following Jesus• The ties that bind us to faith and one another• Falling in love with Jesus beyond fear and fundamentalism• Evangelical and mainline Christian “languages”• The rapture, hell, Bible literalism, sexuality, and forbidden questions• Being the pastor you needed growing up• Queer Christian leadership• Reclaiming the word “Christian”• Preaching as the proclamation of good news• Why progressive pastors need to show up online• Digital ministry, online communion, and real church community• A closing prayer for anyone deconstructing, healing, or searching for home👥 People & Resources Mentioned• Rev. Reilly Paige – @rangerreilly• Rev. Dr. Chris Davies – @jesuslovesdinos• Rev. Jim Keat – @revjimruns• Project Proclaim – @project_proclaim• Southern New England Conference UCC – @sneucc• United Church of Christ – @unitedchurchofchrist• The Riverside Church – @riversidenyc• Bible in a Minute – @bibleinamin• Pastor Cody Deese – @codydeese• April Ajoy – @aprilajoy• Rev. Bethany Peerbolte – @rev.bethany• Rocky Roggio director of 1946 the movie - @rockyroggio•  1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted A Culture - @1946themovieSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

46. Meredith Miller (Non-Denominational Pastor, Author) – Wonder: Talking to Your Kids About God When You're Still Figuring It OutAlexis sits down with non-denominational pastor, author, and children's faith expert Meredith Miller for one of the most practical and hope-filled conversations yet about parenting after deconstruction and teaching the Bible to your kids when you're still figuring out your own faith.Author of Wonder: A Grown-Up's Guide to Exploring the Bible with Children and Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn't Have to Heal From, Meredith has spent more than 20 years helping families cultivate emotionally healthy, curiosity-filled Christian faith. Together, Alexis and Meredith explore how to talk with kids about God, Genesis, evolution, Adam and Eve, a talking snake, Revelation, the rapture, hell, and difficult Bible passages without fear, shame, or pretending to have all the answers.Whether you're rebuilding your faith after evangelical fundamentalism, navigating deconstruction, or simply wondering how to introduce your children to Christianity in a healthier way, this conversation offers practical tools, deep encouragement, and a vision of faith rooted in trust, curiosity, compassion, and the teachings of Jesus.💬 In This Episode• Meredith's book Wonder: A Grown-Up's Guide to Exploring the Bible with Children• Teaching the Bible to kids when you don't have all the answers• Parenting after deconstruction• Raising curious kids instead of fearful kids• Why Genesis is a poem, not a science textbook• Evolution and Christian faith• Talking to kids about Adam and Eve• How to answer difficult Bible questions• Hell, Revelation, and why the rapture isn't in the Bible• Bible literalism, curiosity, and healthy faith formation• Church hurt, evangelicalism, and rebuilding trust• Learning alongside our children instead of having all the answers• A beautiful closing prayer for anyone healing from religious trauma👥 People & Resources Mentioned• Meredith Miller – @meredithannemiller• Wonder: A Grown-Up's Guide to Exploring the Bible with Children is available on The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope• Woven: Nurturing a Faith Your Kid Doesn't Have to Heal From• Pastor Kristen Mockler Young – @kristenmockleryoung, Author: The Other Side of Certainty (coming soon!)• Fuller Youth Institute @fulleryouthinstitute • Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray @janetkelloggraySupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

45. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde (Episcopal) - I Can Learn to Be Brave: Building Courage One Step at a TimeAlexis welcomes back Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde, Episcopal Bishop of Washington, D.C., for a deeply hopeful conversation about courage, faith, and her beautiful new children's book, I Can Learn to Be Brave- releasing July 7th!Known around the world for her sermon calling for mercy toward LGBTQ people and immigrants, Bishop Budde reflects on the quieter acts of bravery that prepare us for life's defining moments. Together, Alexis and Bishop Budde explore why courage begins in childhood, why adults need this message just as much as children, how churches can rebuild trust after church hurt, what faithful public witness looks like in a polarized world, and why the future of the Church could depend on ordinary people willing to take one faithful step at a time.This conversation is an invitation to raise courageous kids, become more courageous ourselves, and imagine a Christianity rooted in humility, inclusion, compassion, hope, and the teachings of Jesus.💬 In This Episode• Bishop Budde's new children's book, I Can Learn to Be Brave• Why courage is something we learn and practice• Raising courageous kids through faith• Why adults need bravery too• Spiritual formation and listening to the Holy Spirit• Church hurt, deconstruction, and rebuilding trust• Christian nationalism and loving our neighbors• Ministry in the digital age• LGBTQ inclusion and women in ministry• Why ordinary people change history• Building the future of the Church one faithful step at a time• A beautiful closing prayer for anyone needing hope today👥 People & Resources Mentioned• Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde – @mariannbudde• I Can Learn to Be Brave  is available for purchase on The Sacred Slope Book Reccos List: https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslope• Illustrated by Holly Hatam – @hollyhatamillustration• Flamingo Books, an imprint of Penguin Young Readers – @penguinkids• Rev. Gerlyn Henry - @gerlynhenry• Pastor Paul Drees - @pastorpauldrees• Sharon McMahon – @sharonsaysso• Jonathan Eig - @joneig• Rich Villodas – @richvillodas• Adam Hamilton – @revadamhamiltonSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

44. Leigh Larson (Disciples of Christ) – Christian Nationalism, Patriotism & Reclaiming ChurchAlexis sits down with theologian, researcher, public educator, and creator of @followtheleighder, Leigh Larson, for one of the most important conversations yet on Christian nationalism, American identity, and what it means to faithfully follow Jesus in a polarized world.Raised in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) tradition, Leigh draws on her graduate work in theology and military chaplaincy to help Christians better understand the relationship between faith, democracy, power, and patriotism.Together, Alexis and Leigh explore why Christian nationalism is not the same thing as Christianity, why America has never belonged to one denomination or political movement, and how progressive Christians have helped shape many of our country's greatest moral movements. They also discuss church hurt, deconstruction, rebuilding faith, and why Christians should never surrender either the Bible or the American flag to extremists.This conversation is an invitation to reclaim hope, compassion, and a vision of Christianity rooted in the teachings of Jesus rather than fear or domination.💬 In This Episode• What Christian nationalism is—and what it isn't • Growing up in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) • Church hurt, institutional harm, and returning to faith • The relationship between Christianity, democracy, and patriotism • Why America is not a Christian nation—and why that's good for faith • Progressive Christians throughout American history • The role of women in early Christianity • Reimagining church for a new generation • Why compassion is a radical act • Finding common ground across political and religious differences • Why the future of the church depends on who shows up👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Leigh Larson: @followtheleighder • Sharon McMahon: @sharonsaysso • Rachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevans • Sarah Bessey: @sarahbessey • Kristin Kobes Du Mez: @kkdumez • Richard Rohr • Tim Whitaker / The New Evangelicals: @thenewevangelicals • April Ajoy: @aprilsajoy • Dan McClellan: @maklelan • Nadia Bolz-Weber: @nadia_bolzweber • James Talarico: @jamestalarico • Andrew Whitehead @ndrewwhiteheadSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

43. Jarko de Witte van Leeuwen (Gay & Christian in The Netherlands) – A Journey Back to Church Through Love, Marriage & Hope Alexis sits down with Jarko de Witte van Leeuwen, Dutch LGBTQ+ advocate and founder of The Growing Wall of Love, for a moving conversation about growing up gay in a conservative Christian environment, surviving years of bullying, finding lifelong love, and discovering that losing trust in the church doesn't have to mean losing God.Jarko shares his extraordinary journey from Belgium to the Netherlands, meeting his husband Jos, becoming one of the first same-sex couples married after marriage equality became law in the first country to legalize same-sex marriage, and the pastor whose simple act of blessing their wedding became the beginning of healing after years of church hurt.Together, Alexis and Jarko explore what Christians around the world can learn from one another, why affirming Christians exist in every denomination, and how crossing cultures, languages, and traditions can deepen our faith, expand our empathy, and reveal a much bigger picture of the global Church.💬 **In This Episode**• Growing up gay in a conservative Christian environment• Bullying, shame, and discovering God's unconditional love• A remarkable love story spanning Belgium and the Netherlands• Marriage equality in the Netherlands and becoming one of the first same-sex married couples• Finding faith again after church hurt• Why affirming Christians exist in every denomination• Raising children as a same-sex Christian couple• The difference between welcoming and affirming churches• Advice for pastors seeking to create safer, more inclusive churches• The Growing Wall of Love and World Pride Amsterdam👥 **People/Resources Mentioned**• Jarko de Witte van Leeuwen: @jarko_de_witte_van_leeuwen• The Growing Wall of Love: @thegrowingwalloflove• Rocky Roggio / *1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture*: @rockyroggio • @1946themovie• Rev. Dr. Chris Davies: @revdrchrisdavies• Project Proclaim: @project_proclaim• Southern New England Conference UCC: @sneucc  ⁨@uccvideos⁩  • Westerkerk Amsterdam: @westerkerkamsterdam• WorldPride Amsterdam 2026: @worldpride2026#Christianity #ProgressiveChristianity #LGBTQChristianity #GayChristian #ChurchHurt #Deconstruction #Reconstruction #TheNetherlands #WorldPride #1946TheMovie #OpenAndAffirming #Faith #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

42. Justin Telthorst (Catholic, Empty Chairs) - A Gay Catholic on Faith, the Pope, and the Empty Seats in the Church (Pride Month Reissue)Alexis sits down with Justin Telthorst, a gay Catholic, speaker, and creator of Empty Chairs @emptychairshome for a moving conversation about faith, identity, church hurt, and belonging inside the Catholic tradition.Justin shares his story of growing up Catholic, surviving conversion therapy, wrestling with conscience and church teaching, and finding his way back to a relationship with God rooted in honesty, love, and truth. Together, Alexis and Justin explore what it means to stay connected to Jesus when institutions wound, and why LGBTQ Christians are still showing up, still praying, and still making room for hope.💬 In This Episode• Growing up Catholic and falling in love with the Church• When faith and identity begin to feel in conflict• The harm of conversion therapy• Reclaiming a relationship with God after church hurt• The meaning behind Empty Chairs• Why LGBTQ Catholics are still showing up• Gatekeeping, conscience, belonging, and love of neighbor• How parents can respond when their child comes out• Catholics, Protestants, communion, and the tensions we inherit👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Justin Telthorst / Empty Chairs: @emptychairshome• The Pope: @pontifex• Brené Brown: @brenebrown• 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture: @1946themovie• Colby Martin / UnClobbered: @colbymartin• Church Clarity: churchclarity.org• Father James Martin: @jamesmartinsj• Outreach: @outrchcatholic• Father James Alison• Theology for the Unwanted: @theounwanted• GayExTrad: @gayextrad• New Ways Ministry: @newwaysministry• Fortunate Families: fortunatefamilies.com• Honoring the Gift• Equip / Pieter Valk• Building Catholic Futures: @buildingcatholicorg• Eve Tushnet: @eve_tushnet• Without Exception / David Palmieri: see outreach.faith and newwaysministry.org• Dr. Julia Sadusky: @drsadusky#Catholicism #Christianity #deconstruction #reconstruction #LGBTQChristianity #GayCatholic #ProgressiveChristianity #QueerTheology #ChurchHurt #Catholic #1946TheMovie #LGBT #LGBTQ #emptychairsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

41. Rev. Brandan Robertson (Progressive Pastor) - Queer & Christian: Reclaiming the Bible, Our Faith, and Our Place at the Table (Pride Month Reissue)What if being queer and Christian was never the contradiction you were taught it was?Alexis sits down with Rev. Brandan Robertson, pastor, activist, and author of Queer & Christian, to explore how scripture has been misunderstood, weaponized, and reclaimed.Brandan shares his journey from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing, through Bible college and conversion therapy, to becoming an openly gay pastor and leading voice in progressive Christianity. Together, they unpack what happens when faith both saves you and harms you, and how deconstruction can lead to something deeper.They dive into some of the most debated passages in the Bible, including Sodom and Gomorrah and 1 Corinthians 6, challenging long-held assumptions about LGBTQ Christianity and biblical interpretation. Brandan explains how mistranslations, cultural context, and power dynamics, not love, are at the center of many interpretations.This conversation reframes the Bible not as a rulebook, but as a complex, ancient library inviting curiosity, wrestling, and growth.They also explore: • Why progressive Christians must be louder about their faith • How queer people carry deep spiritual wisdom • The difference between certainty and truth • Why interpretation matters • How harmful theology impacts real livesThe episode closes with a powerful prayer for anyone who has felt rejected, afraid, or cut off from the love of God.This episode is for anyone exploring: progressive Christianity, LGBTQ Christianity, queer theology, biblical interpretation, deconstruction, faith after evangelicalism, or healing from church hurt.💡 Key Takeaways • The Bible is not univocal and contains diverse voices • Interpretation is unavoidable and matters deeply • Many anti-LGBTQ readings ignore historical context • Deconstruction can lead to deeper faith • God’s love is not something you can loseAbout Our Guest Rev. Brandan Robertson (@brandanrobertson) is a pastor, activist, and author of Queer & Christian. He is a PhD candidate in New Testament at Drew University (@drewuniversity).📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned•Queer & Christian: https://www.brandanrobertson.com/queer-christian-book• Dan McClellan @maklelan• Brian McLaren @brianmclaren• Don Lemon @donlemonofficial• James Talarico @jamestalarico• Rocky Roggio @1946themovie• Rachel Held Evans @rachelheldevansSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

40. Sara Cunningham (Free Mom Hugs) & Kelly Mellen (Making Things Right) – Women of Faith Showing Up for the Queer CommunityWhat does it look like when women of faith choose love over fear and show up for the queer community?Alexis sits down with Sara Cunningham, founder of Free Mom Hugs, and Kelly Mellen, Managing Director of Making Things Right, for a joyful, deeply personal conversation about faith, allyship, healing, and learning how to better love and support LGBTQ+ people.Together, these three women of faith reflect on growing up in Christian traditions that taught homosexuality was a sin, the relationships and experiences that changed their hearts, and why no one should ever have to choose between their faith and being fully known and loved.Sara shares the story behind Free Mom Hugs, which has become a source of hope and chosen family for countless LGBTQ+ people and parents around the world. Kelly discusses her work with Making Things Right and her "I'm Sorry Pride Tour," inviting Christians to move beyond good intentions and into repentance, repair, and love in action.They discuss church hurt, Christian nationalism, allyship, apology, belonging, and why showing up with compassion matters now more than ever.The conversation closes with a blessing for anyone who has ever wondered whether they belong, whether God could still love them, or whether hope is possible after spiritual harm.This conversation is for anyone exploring progressive Christianity, LGBTQ+ Christianity, allyship, church hurt, deconstruction, healing after evangelicalism, affirming theology, chosen family, Free Mom Hugs, faith after harm, and showing up with love.💡 Key Takeaways• Love is bigger than fear• Relationships change hearts more effectively than arguments• Christians have a responsibility to repair harm done to LGBTQ+ people• Apologies matter, but showing up matters even more• Chosen family is sacred• LGBTQ+ people deserve to be fully known, loved, and celebratedAbout Our GuestsSara Cunningham (@saraphrased @freemomhugs) is the founder of Free Mom Hugs, a movement empowering people to celebrate the LGBTQIA+ community through visibility, education, and conversation.Kelly Mellen (@kellymellen_) is the Managing Director of Making Things Right (@makingthingsright_mtr), helping Christians move toward responsibility, repair, and compassionate allyship.📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned• Brian Neitzel (@brianneitzel)Co-founder of Making Things Right and leader of the "I'm Sorry Pride Tour."• Rocky Roggio (@rockyroggio @1946TheMovie)Director of 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture.• Jamie Lee Curtis (@jamieleecurtis)• CenterPeace (@centerpeaceinc)• Q Christian Fellowship (@qchristianorg)• The Reformation Project (@thereformationproject)• The Necessary Conversation Podcast (@thenecessaryconversationpod)• Peppermint (@peppermint247)🏳️‍🌈 Looking for an affirming church?Church Clarity (@churchclarity)Enter your ZIP code at ChurchClarity.org to find churches that are clear (and unclear) about:• LGBTQ+ affirmation• Same-sex weddings• Women in leadership• Queer leadership and belonging🤗 Looking for your people?Free Mom Hugs (@freemomhugs)Find a local chapter, volunteer, or simply know that there are people looking for you, too.As Sara reminds us:"There's nothing you have done, nothing you will do, and nothing you can do that can separate you from the love of God."And as Kelly says:"I'm sorry you've been fed a narrative that you are less than. You are fearfully and wonderfully made, just the way you are."If this episode resonates with you, consider sharing it with someone navigating faith, sexuality, belonging, or healing from church hurt.Sometimes the most sacred thing we can do is simply show up with love.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

39. Rev. Roberto Che Espinoza (Baptist) – Becoming Human With One Another (Pride Month Reissue)This week, Alexis Rice welcomes Rev. Dr. Roberto Che Espinoza, PhD (@drrobertoche), pastor, scholar, and founder of Activist Theology and Our Collective Becoming.Roberto’s life and ministry embody a theology rooted in interdependence, tenderness, and justice. A Latinx trans man, theologian, and ordained Baptist minister, Roberto has devoted his work to spiritual formation, collective liberation, and radical ethics. He invites us to rediscover the practices of Jesus—not as abstractions, but as embodied acts of eating, walking, storytelling, and living in community. Song: Stay Safe provided by singer-songwriter and ally, Derek Webb @derekwebb.Alexis and Roberto explore:Why oppositional politics fuels polarization—and how interdependence offers a better wayHow embodiment and presence can reshape theology and ethicsRoberto’s call story: growing up in poverty and violence, finding home in the church, surviving abuse, and reclaiming his call to ministryThe painful reality of being pushed out of churches for living prophetically, and the hope of interspiritual communityWhat it means to become a stone catcher in a world of violence toward queer and trans peopleHow proximity, care, and hospitality can disrupt cycles of fear and build true solidarity💡 Key TakeawaysEmbodied presence is the starting point for repairThe fruit of the Spirit—not fear or exclusion—must guide Christian communityTo follow Jesus is to risk proximity, solidarity, and radical loveFlourishing requires more than inclusion—it demands spaces where difference blooms⛪ About Our GuestRev. Dr. Roberto Che Espinoza is a pastor, visiting professor, activist, and scholar. A Latinx trans man, Roberto works at the intersections of embodiment, decolonial thought, moral imagination, and justice-rooted theology. He holds a BA in Bible, an MTS in Ethics, and a PhD in Constructive Philosophical Theology. He founded Activist Theology and Our Collective Becoming, is a visiting professor at Duke Divinity, and speaks nationally and internationally on gender justice, faith, and politics. Roberto lives in upstate New York.📚 Resources MentionedActivist Theology & Body Becoming — @drrobertocheQueer Virtue — @elizabethedmanSurvival Songs album — @derekwebbHomebrewed Christianity — @theologynerdExvangelical — @brchastainStraight White American Jesus — @straightwhitejc & @bbonishiWork by Sarah Heath — @revsarahheathThe Bible for Normal People — @thebiblefornormalpeopleMay you find sacred ground, may the fruit of the Spirit guide you. If you’re longing for community, may you be encouraged to find one that embraces your full, questioning, beautiful selves.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected] the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

38. Timothy Schraeder Rodriguez (Non-Denominational Megachurch Culture) - Conversion Therapy DropoutWhat if the choice between being gay and being Christian was never a choice at all?Alexis sits down with Timothy Schrader Rodriguez, author of Conversion Therapy Dropout, for a deeply personal conversation about surviving eight years of conversion therapy, working behind the scenes at some of the most influential evangelical megachurches in America, and discovering that faith and queerness do not have to be enemies.Tim shares his journey from growing up in evangelical megachurch culture to entering conversion therapy in pursuit of what he believed God required of him. Together, Alexis and Tim explore the devastating impact of spiritual abuse, the false binary many LGBTQ+ Christians are taught, and the healing that becomes possible when people are fully seen, loved, and affirmed.They discuss the rise of Christian nationalism, the continued attacks on LGBTQ+ rights, and why visibility, honesty, and relationships remain some of the most powerful tools for change.Tim also shares the story behind Church Clarity, the organization he helped launch to help people find churches that are honest about where they stand on LGBTQ+ inclusion and women in leadership.The conversation closes with a powerful benediction for anyone who has ever wondered whether they belong, whether God could love them as they are, or whether faith is still possible after spiritual harm.This conversation is for anyone exploring:progressive Christianity, LGBTQ+ Christianity, queer theology, deconstruction, church hurt, conversion therapy, Christian nationalism, faith after evangelicalism, and healing from spiritual abuse.💡 Key Takeaways• Conversion therapy is harmful and does not work• Being gay and Christian is not a contradiction• Many LGBTQ+ people leave faith because of rejection, not because they stop seeking God• Relationships and stories change hearts more effectively than arguments• Churches should be clear about where they stand on LGBTQ+ inclusion and women in leadership• Healing is not becoming someone else - it's returning to who you've always beenAbout Our GuestTimothy Schrader Rodriguez (@timothy.s.rodriguez) is an author, speaker, church communications strategist, LGBTQ+ advocate, and one of the founders of Church Clarity. His memoir, Conversion Therapy Dropout, chronicles his experience surviving eight years of conversion therapy and finding a path toward healing, authenticity, and faith.📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned• Jonathan Van Ness @jvn• Getting Better with JVN: @gettingbetterwithJVN• NBC News interview featuring Timothy Schrader Rodriguez: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYDZuzrsZ8L/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==• Church Clarity @churchclarity• Q Christian Fellowship @qchristianorg https://www.qchristian.org/ • Rev. Brandan Robertson @brandanrobertson• Matthew Vines @matthewvines• Justin Telthorst @emptycharishome• Rev. Dr. Ginny Brown Daniel https://ginnybrowndaniel.substack.com/• Brené Brown @brenebrown🏳️‍🌈 Looking for a church?Visit ChurchClarity.orgIs there a church near you that is clear about how they welcome and affirm LGBTQ+ people? Are queer people allowed in leadership? Will the church perform same-sex weddings? Do they affirm women in leadership? Enter your ZIP code and see what's around you.As Tim channels @BrenéBrown in this episode: "Clarity is kindness. Ambiguity can be harmful."Grab Conversion Therapy Dropout (I love Tim reading the audiobook!) Grab a copy https://bookshop.org/shop/thesacredslopeIf this episode resonates with you, consider sharing it with someone navigating questions around faith, sexuality, belonging, or healing from church hurt.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

37. Bishop Guðrún Karls Helgudóttir (Church of Iceland) – A Nation Led by Women, and a Bishop Who Says Queer People Should Be Safe in ChristianityWhen a nation is led by women at the highest levels - the President, the Prime Minister, the Mayor of Reykjavík, the National Police Commissioner, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, and the Bishop of Iceland - something becomes visible: women in power isn’t an exception, it’s normal. Into that context steps Bishop Guðrún - the second woman ever to serve as Bishop of Iceland - who tells LGBTQ+ people that God’s creation is good — and that we are holy creations of God.Together, Alexis & Bishop Guðrún dive into:• Iceland’s 1975 Women’s Strike & gender equality milestones• From harm to repair - why churches MUST affirm LGBTQ+ people• The Bishop’s civic role - national funerals, ceremonies, moral voice• Mental health, suicide, and walking with people in suffering• A prayer in Icelandic for listeners who left church but not God💡 Key Takeaways🌈 Safety, dignity, and belonging for queer people is Christian discipleship - not deviation. 👩‍⚖️ When women lead at every level of national life, equality becomes ordinary - not symbolic. 🧭 The Bishop’s role is not partisan power - it is moral presence and public courage. 🕊️ True pastoral leadership walks with people in suffering, not above them.⛪ About Our GuestBishop Guðrún Karls Helgudóttir (@gudrun.biskup_) is the Bishop of Iceland - the spiritual head of the Church of Iceland (@kirkjan.is), a national Lutheran church interwoven into Icelandic cultural life, history, and state ceremonies. The Bishop’s office carries both sacred and civic weight: accompanying presidents and prime ministers at moments of national significance, offering moral clarity in public crises, and serving as a pastoral presence when the country gathers in grief, remembrance, or celebration.Bishop Guðrún is the second woman ever to serve as Bishop of Iceland. Her pathway includes parish leadership in Sweden and Iceland, and theological formation at the University of Iceland and the Lutheran School of Theology in Chicago. Known internationally for her clear advocacy for LGBTQ+ inclusion, Bishop Guðrún represents a model of Christian leadership rooted not in fear or exclusion, but in dignity, equality, and the conviction that God’s creation is good.📚 Resources MentionedIceland Church Pride clip: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNBnMnFMtN8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkBishop Guðrún Trans rights clip: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFvNaZ8tKeN/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkSuicide-awareness clip: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPCd44njMXo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_linkWomen’s Strike (BBC):https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cy0ky4e4kzwoSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

Pride Month Series- 🌈 Happy Pride!36. Rev. Dr. Caleb J. Lines (Disciples of Christ/UCC) - The Progressive, Open & Affirming Pastor Evangelicals Warned You AboutWhat does a conversation with a progressive, open and affirming pastor actually sound like?For many people raised in evangelical spaces, progressive pastors were often presented as people who had compromised biblical faith or wandered too far from Christianity. But what happens when you actually listen and decide for yourself?Alexis sits down with Rev. Dr. Caleb J. Lines, pastor, author, scholar, Co-Executive Director of the Center for Progressive Christianity, and one of the most visible progressive Christian voices online, for a wide-ranging conversation about faith, deconstruction, LGBTQ+ inclusion, Christian nationalism, biblical interpretation, raising children with a healthy faith, and why so many people are reimagining Christianity today.Caleb serves an open and affirming church in San Diego. Open and Affirming (ONA) churches fully welcome LGBTQ+ people into the life and leadership of the church. In many ONA churches, this includes marriage, ordination, leadership, and participation at every level.Together, Alexis and Caleb explore whether progressive Christianity is really as scary as many people were taught, why faith doesn't have to be rooted in certainty, and how Christianity can be a force for justice, compassion, curiosity, and human flourishing.💬 In This Episode• What progressive Christianity actually is• What "Open and Affirming" means• Growing up progressive in the Bible Belt• Deconstruction, reconstruction, and resilient faith• Raising children who can ask hard questions• Christian nationalism and the politics of fear• LGBTQ+ inclusion in the church• How to find a safe, affirming church• Why people are leaving harmful religious spaces• Why some people are reclaiming Christianity instead of abandoning it• Interfaith relationships and finding common ground• Faith, doubt, mystery, and living without certainty👥 People & Resources Mentioned• Rev. Dr. Caleb J. Lines: @revcalebjlines• The Center for Progressive Christianity: @progressivechristianity• Church Clarity: @churchclarity | churchclarity.org• GayChurch.org• Rev. Dr. Mark Sandlin: @marksandlin• Marcus Borg• Barbara Brown Taylor: @barbarabrowntaylor• Holy Envy• Phyllis Tickle• Jerome Berryman / Godly Play• Imam Taha Hassane• Petra Costa: @petracostal• Apocalypse in the Tropics (Netflix)• The Moonshine Jesus Show: @moonshinejesusshow📚 Books by Caleb• Awakened: A Path to Courageous Faith in an Uncertain World• The Great Digital Commission: Embracing Social Media for Church Growth and TransformationWebsite: calebjlines.com#ProgressiveChristianity #OpenAndAffirming #PrideMonth #Christianity #Deconstruction #Reconstruction #LGBTQChristianity #ChristianNationalism #Faith #ProgressiveFaith #ChurchHurt #InclusiveChurch #TheSacredSlope #CalebJLines #Pride 🌈Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

HAPPY PRIDE!🎙️ 35. Rocky Roggio (Director, 1946: The Movie) - 1946: The Year the Word “Homosexual” Entered the Bible (Pride Month Reissue)One mistranslation changed theology, policy, families, and the lives of millions of LGBTQ people.Alexis sits down with Rocky Roggio @rockyroggio, director of the award-winning documentary 1946: The Movie @1946themovie, to explore the year the word “homosexual” first appeared in an English Bible and how that translation decision reshaped theology, culture, and public policy for generations.They unpack the historical research behind the film, including discoveries in the Yale archives surrounding the 1946 Revised Standard Version Bible translation. Rocky explains how one translation decision helped shape decades of church teaching and influence modern debates around LGBTQ Christianity and Bible translation.Rocky also shares the personal story behind the film, including the decision to include her own father, a minister, in the documentary. Their conversations reveal how theology is never abstract - it shows up in families, churches, and real relationships.Alexis and Rocky discuss why the film resonates with audiences across the political and theological spectrum and why understanding Bible translation history, queer theology, progressive Christianity, and Christian nationalism matters right now.This episode is for anyone - Christian or not, queer or not - who cares about truth, history, and how sacred texts are interpreted and sometimes weaponized.💡 Key Takeaways• The word “homosexual” first appeared in an English Bible in 1946• Bible translation decisions can shape theology and culture for generations• Scripture can inspire justice or be used to justify harm• Biblical literacy matters in conversations about Christian nationalism and LGBTQ inclusionAbout Our GuestRocky Roggio is the director of 1946: The Movie, an award-winning documentary investigating how the word “homosexual” first entered the English Bible and how that translation shaped modern debates around LGBTQ Christianity.🎬 Watch the filmBest way to support the filmmakers (independent streaming platform): https://watch.eventive.org/1946themovie🌍 Projects & Organizations MentionedThe Living Wall of Love - Jarko’s project featured at World Pride Amsterdam https://growingwalloflove.comMaking Things Right (LGBTQ Christian reconciliation resource) https://makingthingsright.org#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #1946TheMovieSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

34. Science & Faith Part 2 - Pastor Will Rose (ELCA Lutheran) - The False Choice Between Faith and Science Alexis Rice sits down with Pastor Will Rose, ELCA Lutheran pastor in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, co-host of Systematic Geekology, and creator of the faith and science podcast Your Matter Matters, for a deeply compassionate conversation about curiosity, science, deconstruction, and why asking honest questions should never make someone feel spiritually unsafe.Together, Alexis and Will unpack the false binary so many Christians were handed between faith and science - and the shame many people carry after being taught that questioning Genesis, evolution, the Big Bang, healthcare, vaccines, or scientific expertise somehow meant they were “falling away from God.”Will shares how many progressive and mainline Christian spaces approach scripture, theology, and science very differently than fundamentalist environments, and why intellectual humility, wonder, and curiosity can actually deepen faith instead of destroy it.At the center of this conversation is one powerful idea:“If that’s how the universe operates - growing, evolving, shifting - I think our faith can be like that too.”This episode is an invitation for anyone who has ever felt spiritually trapped, intellectually unsafe, or afraid that asking honest questions could cost them belonging.💬 In This Episode• Why many Christians were taught faith and science cannot coexist• Curiosity vs “doubt culture” in evangelical spaces• Why asking questions should not be treated as rebellion against God• The danger of certainty culture in Christianity• Genesis, evolution, Adam & Eve, and biblical interpretation• “God of the gaps” theology and why it creates fear• Why many pastors feel pressure to have all the answers• The importance of intellectual humility in faith communities• How science and theology ask different kinds of questions• COVID, vaccines, healthcare, and anti-science narratives in churches• Christian nationalism and the weaponization of faith• The erosion of trust in institutions, experts, and scientists• Why progressive pastors and churches need more visibility• Theology Beer Camp and creating safe spaces for spiritual exploration• Why people do not need to abandon science in order to love God• The healing power of realizing “I’m not the only one asking this”📚 Books & Resources Mentioned• Pastor Will Rose: @willnrose• Your Matter Matters Podcast: @yourmattermatters• Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God - Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray @janetkelloggray from @eerdmans• The Sin of Certainty - Pete Enns @thebiblefornormalpeople• The Great Emergence - Phyllis Tickle• Systematic Geekology @systematicgeekology• Theology Beer Camp @theologybeercamp• Homebrewed Christianity with Tripp Fulelr @theologynerd @trippfuller• Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray: @janetkelloggray• Tripp Fuller: @trippfuller• Pete Enns: @thebiblefornormalpeople• Ted Peters• Joshua Noel• Francis Collins• Neil deGrasse Tyson: @neildegrassetysonSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

33. Science & Faith Part 1 - Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray (Science Educator & Christian) - Science Asks How & When. Faith Asks Who & WhyAlexis Rice sits down with Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray, science educator, university lecturer, Christian, and author of Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God, for a deeply honest conversation about evolution, evangelicalism, scientific literacy, and the false choice so many Christians were handed between faith and science.Raised in conservative Christianity and young earth creationist culture herself, Janet shares how studying biology transformed her understanding of both science and God - not by destroying her faith, but by expanding it.Together, Alexis and Janet unpack the deep distrust of science embedded in many American evangelical spaces, why evolution was framed as spiritually dangerous, and how generations of Christians were taught that accepting evolution, climate science, vaccines, or scientific expertise itself could somehow threaten their relationship with God.At the center of this conversation is one of Janet’s most powerful insights:“Science asks questions of how and when. Faith asks questions of who and why.”Science cannot answer every meaningful question in human life. And faith and science are not enemies competing for the same territory - they are often answering entirely different kinds of questions.💬 In This Episode• Growing up in young earth creationism• Why evolution became linked to “moral decline” in evangelical culture• The rise of anti-evolution apologetics in America• How churches built alternative Christian media and education ecosystems• Why many Christians distrust scientists and experts• COVID, vaccines, public health, and evangelical fear of science• What scientists actually mean by “theory”• Adam and Eve, Genesis, and the tension between theology and biology• The Big Bang, the Cambrian explosion, and misconceptions about evolution• Why curiosity should not be treated as rebellion against God• Galileo, science denial, and refusing to “look through the telescope”• Authority vs expertise and the danger of scientific illiteracy• Why science and faith can coexist without conflict• How asking questions can actually deepen faith rather than destroy itJanet offers a compassionate invitation for Christians who feel trapped between intellectual honesty and spiritual belonging: you do not have to reject science to love God.📚 Books & Resources Mentioned• Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God (@Eerdmans) • The God of Monkey Science (@Eerdmans) • Baby Dinosaurs on the Ark👥 People & Accounts Mentioned• Janet Kellogg Ray: @janetkelloggray • Neil deGrasse Tyson: @neildegrassetyson • Hasan Minhaj - IG: @hasanminhaj @hmdk • Francis Collins • Kenneth MillerSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 32. Sharon McMahon (We Are Mighty) & We Are the Ones We’ve Been Waiting ForAlexis Rice sits down with Sharon McMahon, bestselling author, educator, and creator of “@SharonSaysSo,” for a deeply moving conversation about history, democracy, courage, faith, and the ordinary people who shape the world around us.As Sharon releases her new children’s book, We Are Mighty: 12 Ordinary Americans Who Did the Next Needed Thing, Alexis and Sharon explore figures of American history, some famous, some not, about the power of education, and what it means to continue doing good with no assurance of success. Together, they discuss Martin Luther King Jr., Maria de Lopez, Abraham Lincoln, Rosa Parks, Septima Clark, Clara Brown, and the everyday people whose unseen acts of courage changed generations.This episode is a reminder that history is not only shaped by presidents, billionaires, or celebrities - but by teachers, neighbors, parents, organizers, and ordinary people willing to do the next needed thing.💬 In This Episode• Why “doing the next needed thing” can change history• Stories behind We Are Mighty and The Small and the Mighty• Martin Luther King Jr.’s struggle with depression and self-doubt• Rosa Parks, Septima Clark, and the unseen roots of the Civil Rights Movement• Clara Brown, faith, forgiveness, and resistance• Why education is liberation• The danger of Christian nationalism and authoritarianism• The difference between performative religion and living compassionately• Sharon’s canceled commencement speech, the political backlash, and how she's doing the next needed thing• Why history gives hope during difficult times• What teachers and ordinary citizens need to hear right now about the power of community• Why courage rarely comes with assurance of successSharon reminds us that the people who change the world are rarely the loudest or the most powerful. More often, they are ordinary people choosing courage, compassion, education, and hope in moments when success is far from guaranteed.And maybe that moment is ours now.We Are Mighty for Kids, illustrated by @susannachapman, from @penguinrandomhouse is out May 19 https://sharonmcmahon.com/book👥 People Mentioned• Sarah Bessey: @sarahbessey• Kate Bowler: @katecbowler• Nadia Bolz-Weber: @sarcasticlutheranSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 31. Jeremy Steele (United Methodist, Skeptic Pastor) - Stop Ceding Faith: Democrats and Media Need Progressive Pastors NowAlexis sits down with Jeremy Steele (@skeptic.pastor), a United Methodist pastor, author, and self-described “deep skeptic,” for a bold, unfiltered conversation about faith, politics, and the stories shaping Christianity in America today.Jeremy returns to The Sacred Slope to challenge some of the most widely held beliefs in evangelical spaces - including the rapture - and to name what’s really happening when extreme voices dominate the narrative. Together, Alexis and Jeremy unpack Christian nationalism, the absence of progressive faith voices in media and politics, and why that silence is creating a dangerous vacuum.This episode is both a wake-up call and a clear invitation: if Democrats and media want to reach people of faith, they cannot keep ignoring progressive pastors. The voices exist. The audience is there. The moment is now.💬 In This Episode• Why the rapture isn’t supported by serious biblical scholarship• How fear-based theology stays in our bodies even after deconstruction• Christian nationalism and the “shock jock” effect in media• Why Democrats and progressive media have ceded the language of faith• A direct call: put progressive pastors and faith leaders on stage• The gap between evangelical narratives and global Christianity• Letting go of all-or-nothing faith frameworks• Reclaiming spiritual practices and rituals after church hurt• Why compassion is central to the teachings of Jesus👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Jeremy Steele: @skepticpastor | https://skepticpastor.com • Rituals for Heretics: https://skepticpastor.com/rituals • How to Not Suck as a Christian https://jeremy-steele.com/suck-book• Dan McClellan: @maklelan• Jennifer Garcia Bashaw: @jgbashaw• The Bible for Normal People: @thebiblefornormalpeople• Senator Raphael Warnock: @raphaelwarnock• Jimmy Kimmel: @jimmykimmel• Stephen Colbert: @stephenathome• MSNow: @msnbc• CNN: @cnn • Don Lemon Show: @donlemonofficialFrom calling out harmful theology to naming the silence in progressive spaces, Jeremy makes a compelling case: the rapture isn’t real, but the consequences of bad theology are. And if we don’t elevate better voices, we leave the loudest ones unchecked.#Christianity #deconstruction #progressiveChristianity #ChristianNationalism #faithandpolitics #exvangelical #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealthSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 30. Christina Zini (United Methodist/Lutheran) -  This Is What Christianity Looks Like When It’s Not About Control & The Sacred Slope Turns 1!!!!! With music by Derek Webb!Alexis Rice sits down with Christina Zini, a friend of 20+ years, a leadership coach, Christian woman, global citizen, for a deeply personal and reflective conversation marking one year of The Sacred Slope.Christina shares her journey of faith from growing up Lutheran in a small town in the US to living across the world and discovering a Christianity rooted not in control or coercion, but in love, openness, and deep respect for others. Together, Alexis and Christina explore what it actually looks like to follow Jesus in a complex and divided world.They reflect on friendship, church, and culture, and what this past year of The Sacred Slope has revealed: that faith is far more expansive than many were taught, that people across religions are not enemies but neighbors, and that people are drawn to Jesus not by force, but by how we show up.At the heart of this conversation is a powerful message: they are to know us by our love.💬 In This Episode• Celebrating one year of The Sacred Slope• Growing up in Lutheran and Methodist traditions• Faith shaped by global experiences and travel• Church shopping and finding aligned community• Why love matters more than conversion• Respecting other religions while following Jesus• Women’s leadership and agency in faith and life• IVF, health decisions, and bodily autonomy• Letting go of control and learning to trust God• Navigating faith in a time of division• Friendship as a spiritual anchor• What it means to live out the fruit of the Spirit💛 Thank you Derek Webb A special thank you to Derek Webb @DerekWebb and his team for allowing me to use his music in this anniversary episode from his album, Survival Songs: https://www.derekwebb.com/dwdwdw/p/survival-songs-cd-digital-downloadDerek was one of my first interviews and it was so healing: https://youtu.be/Gr-lWvMLj9A?si=GQR4mlKygpRMMf3U💛 Support The Sacred SlopeIf this podcast has meant something to you and you want to see more conversations like this:☕ Buy Me a Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/thesacredslope 💛 Linktree to Venmo: https://linktr.ee/TheSacredSlopeYour support helps amplify voices, expand this community, and continue these conversations around the world.#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealthSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 29. Part 2. Reproductive Rights - Rev. jessica young chang (UCC): Faith, Freedom, and Who Gets to DecideA note: This is so hard to talk about.I was raised to believe this was the issue. The line you could never cross.And if you did… you were wrong. You were evil.So I get it. I really do.But after listening to real stories… and sitting with real people… I realized this isn’t simple. It never was.There’s more nuance here than we were told.Alexis Rice sits down with rev. jessica young chang, a UCC minister and reproductive chaplain, for a compassionate conversation about faith, reproductive justice, and what it means to follow Jesus in complex, real-world situations.Following Part 1 with Alexis’s childhood friend Valerie - a story of pregnancy, cancer, and survival - this episode moves into the pastoral and theological realities behind reproductive decisions.This is a deeply emotional topic. For many Christians in the United States, this has been the defining political issue for over 40 years. Many have been taught that to think differently is to be wrong, sinful, or beyond redemption.If you feel tension, grief, or resistance as you listen, you are not alone.This episode does not tell you what to think. It invites you to listen.Together, they explore how faith, power, and the body intersect - and create space for those who have felt judged, silenced, or pushed out of the conversation.At the heart of this episode is a grounding truth: nothing separates you from the love of God.💬 In This Episode• Reproductive chaplaincy & spiritual care• Why this issue is not simple or binary• What the Bible does/doesn't say about abortion• Life begins at breath & personhood• Power, politics, & Christian nationalism• Pro-life vs anti-choice• Why access reduces abortion rates• Real-world consequences when care is restricted• Grief, relief, & lived experiences• Deconstructing faith while holding onto Jesus• Navigating shame & inherited beliefs• A prayer for healing & freedom👥 THANK YOU to the following folks who allowed me to include their social media clips in this episode:• Dan McClellan: @maklelan• Tim Whitaker: @timwhitakerspeaks / @thenewevangelicals• Mark Sandlin: @marksandlin / @progressivechristianity / @the_christian_left• John Fugelsang: @johnfugelsang• Jeremy Steele: @skeptic.pastor• Heather Gardner: @heathergtv📚 OrganizationsFaith Aloud | Faith Choice Ohio @faithchoiceohioPlanned Parenthood @plannedparenthood#Christianity #deconstruction #reproductiverightsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

28. Part 1. Reproductive Rights: Valerie's Story - Pregnancy, Cancer, and a Life-or-Death ChoiceAlexis sits down with her childhood friend Valerie Ruschke for a deeply personal and emotional conversation about reproductive rights, faith, and medical reality.At 16 weeks pregnant, Valerie was diagnosed with aggressive Stage 3 HER2-positive breast cancer. Doctors told her she had less than a 10% chance of survival unless she terminated the pregnancy immediately to begin life-saving treatment.This is Part 1 of a two-part series exploring reproductive rights, faith, and nuance.Valerie shares what it was like to face that decision in real time - the physical pain, the emotional weight, and the lasting impact. She opens up about what followed: chemotherapy, loss, survival, recurrence, and ultimately building her family through surrogacy.This episode moves beyond political talking points and into lived experience. It challenges assumptions about abortion, highlights the realities of maternal health, and reminds us that these decisions are not theoretical - they are deeply human.💬 In This Episode• How Judaism teaches that the life and well-being of the mother takes precedence in pregnancy• A real story of abortion and cancer during pregnancy• What happens when treatment cannot wait• The physical and emotional reality of termination• How faith and personal values shape complex decisions• The medical realities often missing from public conversations• Why this issue is not simple within Christianity or any faith• How policy decisions impact real families and outcomes@valroosh🎧 Coming in Part 2In Part 2, Alexis speaks with Reverend jessica young chang and shares perspectives from clergy, theologians, and leaders wrestling with reproductive rights, faith, and care in their communities.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 27. Mattie Mae Motl (Bible Scholar) - Loving Jesus Too Much to Let Him Be WeaponizedAlexis Rice sits down with Mattie Mae Motl, a Bible scholar, theologian, and PhD candidate studying the New Testament (with a focus on Romans), for a powerful and deeply clarifying conversation about biblical scholarship, deconstruction, and reclaiming faith.Mattie Mae Motl shares her story of growing up Southern Baptist, falling in love with Scripture, and pursuing rigorous academic study not to dismantle faith—but to protect it. Together, they explore the gap between academia and the church, the misuse of Scripture in modern culture, and why asking better questions doesn’t weaken faith - it deepens it.At the heart of this conversation is a bold truth: loving Jesus deeply means refusing to let Him be used as a tool for harm.💬 In This Episode• Growing up in conservative Christianity and loving the Bible deeply • What biblical scholars actually do (and what they don’t do) • Why context matters when reading Scripture • The difference between theologians and Bible scholars • Disputed vs. undisputed Pauline letters • Women in the early church and leadership in Romans 16 • Why 1 Timothy conflicts with Paul’s authentic voice • The gap between academia and the church • Elitism vs. anti-intellectualism in faith spaces • Why doubt and questions are essential to faith • The rise of toxic masculinity and the manosphere • How Scripture is misused to support patriarchy • What Jesus and Paul actually model about power and humility • Encouragement for women navigating faith and dating today • Finding healing in liturgical and inclusive church spaces • Why representation matters more than having all the answers👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Mattie Mae Motl: @mattiemaemotl  • Rachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevans • R. F. Kuang: @kuangrf📚 Topics to Explore Further• Biblical scholarship vs theology • How to read the Bible in historical context • Women in early Christianity • LGBTQ Christianity • Toxic masculinity and Christianity • Progressive Christianity • Queer theology • Christian nationalism#Christianity #deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #BibleScholar #BiblicalLiteracy #QueerTheology #WomenInMinistry #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #ChurchHurt #ReconstructionSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

26. Justin Telthorst (Catholic, Empty Chairs) - A Gay Catholic on Faith, the Pope, and the Empty Seats in the ChurchAlexis sits down with Justin Telthorst, a gay Catholic, speaker, and creator of Empty Chairs @emptychairshome for a moving conversation about faith, identity, church hurt, and belonging inside the Catholic tradition.Justin shares his story of growing up Catholic, surviving conversion therapy, wrestling with conscience and church teaching, and finding his way back to a relationship with God rooted in honesty, love, and truth. Together, Alexis and Justin explore what it means to stay connected to Jesus when institutions wound, and why LGBTQ Christians are still showing up, still praying, and still making room for hope.💬 In This Episode• Growing up Catholic and falling in love with the Church• When faith and identity begin to feel in conflict• The harm of conversion therapy• Reclaiming a relationship with God after church hurt• The meaning behind Empty Chairs• Why LGBTQ Catholics are still showing up• Gatekeeping, conscience, belonging, and love of neighbor• How parents can respond when their child comes out• Catholics, Protestants, communion, and the tensions we inherit👥 People/Resources Mentioned• Justin Telthorst / Empty Chairs: @emptychairshome• The Pope: @pontifex• Brené Brown: @brenebrown• 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture: @1946themovie• Colby Martin / UnClobbered: @colbymartin• Church Clarity: churchclarity.org• Father James Martin: @jamesmartinsj• Outreach: @outrchcatholic• Father James Alison• Theology for the Unwanted: @theounwanted• GayExTrad: @gayextrad• New Ways Ministry: @newwaysministry• Fortunate Families: fortunatefamilies.com• Honoring the Gift• Equip / Pieter Valk• Building Catholic Futures: @buildingcatholicorg• Eve Tushnet: @eve_tushnet• Without Exception / David Palmieri: see outreach.faith and newwaysministry.org• Dr. Julia Sadusky: @drsadusky#Catholicism #Christianity #deconstruction #reconstruction #LGBTQChristianity #GayCatholic #ProgressiveChristianity #QueerTheology #ChurchHurt #Catholic #1946TheMovie #LGBT #LGBTQ #emptychairsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

25. Andrew Whitehead (Sociologist, Author, Christian) - American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the ChurchAndrew Whitehead joins Alexis Rice for a powerful conversation on Christian nationalism and the ways it shapes faith, identity, and public life.Alexis and Andrew explore what Christian nationalism actually is (and isn’t), how it shows up in everyday spaces, and why it can be so difficult to recognize - even for those inside the church.Drawing from American Idolatry, Andrew names the deeper forces at work and invites listeners to examine how power, fear, and identity can distort faith.American Idolatry: How Christian Nationalism Betrays the Gospel and Threatens the Church https://a.co/d/02lo2xUn💬 In This Episode• What Christian nationalism is - and why it’s often misunderstood • The “American flag in the sanctuary” test • Power, fear, and violence as central forces • Why Christian nationalism isn’t a binary - and how many people fall in the middle • The Seven Mountain Mandate and dominion theology • How questions - not arguments - can open real change • Why this movement impacts everyone, regardless of belief👥 People/Resources MentionedAndrew Whitehead: @ndrewwhitehead April Ajoy: @aprilajoy Star-Spangled Jesus Jemar Tisby: @jemartisby Kristin Kobes Du Mez: @kkdumez#Christianity #deconstruction #ChristianNationalism #FaithAndPolitics #ProgressiveChristianitySupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 24. Julie (Aakadewin-o Waawaashkeshi Kwe) Francella (Ojibwe, Batchewana First Nation) - We’re Still Here: Indigenous Wisdom, Empathy, & the Wounds Beneath HateAlexis sits down with Julie (Aakadewin-o Waawaashkeshi Kwe) Francella - an Ojibwe professor of Indigenous Studies, mental health professional, writer, artist, and @SiriusXM co-host, for a powerful conversation on Indigenous wisdom, trauma, empathy, and staying human in a brutal time.Julie shares how she walks between worlds without losing her center - rooted in Anishinaabe ways of knowing while navigating Catholic education, psychology, trauma work, and advocacy. Together, they explore what Christian listeners can learn about love of neighbor, care for the earth, humility, and shared humanity.They discuss Ribbon Skirt Day, Two-Spirit sacredness, survivors of sexual violence, parenting with curiosity, and why hate grows from fear, shame, pain, and the hunger to belong. Julie offers a framework: boundaries matter - but transformation requires understanding the wound beneath behavior.Also, who makes a surprise cameo?They also dive into: • Indigenous teachings on relationality and Mother Earth • What Christians misunderstand about colonization • How survivors calculate the risk of speaking up • Why Two-Spirit people were seen as sacred • What parents can teach their kids • Why curiosity matters more than certaintyThe episode closes with a reminder: hope is a practice. Indigenous people have been resisting for over 500 years - and they are still here.💡 Key Takeaways • Hate reveals disconnection, not irredeemability • Boundaries matter, but understanding interrupts harm • Indigenous peoples were never spiritually empty • Two-Spirit identity has long been sacred • Curiosity and humility are essential to healing • Hope is something we practice📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned • Julie Francella - The Fire I Keep on Substack - https://substack.com/@juliefrancella • We’re Still Here with Simon Moya-Smith @simonsaidtakeapic  on the @johnfugelsang Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-fugelsang-podcast/id1464094232 • Separation of Church and Hate by John Fugelsang • 1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture - @1946themovie • Dolores Huerta @doloreshuerta#deconstruction #IndigenousWisdomSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 23. Kristin Mockler Young (Non-Denominational Pastor) - The Other Side of CertaintyWhat if losing certainty isn’t losing your faith… but the beginning of a deeper one?Alexis sits down with Pastor Kristin Mockler Young @kristinmockleryoung, teaching pastor at Mosaic Church @mosaicclt, host of the Becoming Church podcast , and author of the upcoming book, The Other Side of Certainty, to explore what happens when the version of Christianity you were given no longer fits.Kristin shares her journey from lifelong “church girl” to pastor, all while deconstructing in real time. Together, they unpack what it means to hold onto Jesus while questioning everything else, and why doubt might not be the enemy we were taught it was.They explore how rigid certainty can limit our understanding of God, and how freedom, humility, and curiosity can open the door to a more expansive, honest, and deeply rooted faith. Kristin shares why she’s still a Christian, what she had to unlearn, and how she now pastors people far beyond the walls of a church.They also dive into: • What’s on the other side of deconstruction • How to find a healthy, safe church • Faith, politics, and holding compassion with conviction • Parenting kids through faith without rigid answers • Why curiosity and compassion matter more than controlThe episode closes with a powerful prayer for anyone feeling disenchanted, alone, or unsure where they belong.This episode is for anyone exploring: progressive Christianity, deconstruction, faith after evangelicalism, Christian nationalism, church hurt, or rebuilding faith.💡 Key Takeaways • Certainty is not the same as truth • Deconstruction can lead to deeper faith • You don’t have to abandon Jesus to question systems • Healthy faith makes space for questions • Compassion and curiosity can lead to transformation📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned • The Other Side of Certainty (pre-order): https://a.co/d/03RMF1CU • Rachel Held Evans @rachelheldevans • Pete Enns @peteenns • Sarah Bessey @sarahbessey • John Fugelsang @johnfugelsang • Meredith Ann Miller @meredithannmillerBecoming Church Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/becoming-church/id1606553800#Christianity #deconstruction #reconstructionSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 22. Rev. Brandan Robertson (Progressive Pastor) - Queer & Christian: Reclaiming the Bible, Our Faith, and Our Place at the TableWhat if being queer and Christian was never the contradiction you were taught it was?Alexis sits down with Rev. Brandan Robertson, pastor, activist, and author of Queer & Christian, to explore how scripture has been misunderstood, weaponized, and reclaimed.Brandan shares his journey from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing, through Bible college and conversion therapy, to becoming an openly gay pastor and leading voice in progressive Christianity. Together, they unpack what happens when faith both saves you and harms you, and how deconstruction can lead to something deeper.They dive into some of the most debated passages in the Bible, including Sodom and Gomorrah and 1 Corinthians 6, challenging long-held assumptions about LGBTQ Christianity and biblical interpretation. Brandan explains how mistranslations, cultural context, and power dynamics, not love, are at the center of many interpretations.This conversation reframes the Bible not as a rulebook, but as a complex, ancient library inviting curiosity, wrestling, and growth.They also explore: • Why progressive Christians must be louder about their faith • How queer people carry deep spiritual wisdom • The difference between certainty and truth • Why interpretation matters • How harmful theology impacts real livesThe episode closes with a powerful prayer for anyone who has felt rejected, afraid, or cut off from the love of God.This episode is for anyone exploring: progressive Christianity, LGBTQ Christianity, queer theology, biblical interpretation, deconstruction, faith after evangelicalism, or healing from church hurt.💡 Key Takeaways • The Bible is not univocal and contains diverse voices • Interpretation is unavoidable and matters deeply • Many anti-LGBTQ readings ignore historical context • Deconstruction can lead to deeper faith • God’s love is not something you can loseAbout Our Guest Rev. Brandan Robertson (@brandanrobertson) is a pastor, activist, and author of Queer & Christian. He is a PhD candidate in New Testament at Drew University (@drewuniversity).📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned•Queer & Christian: https://www.brandanrobertson.com/queer-christian-book • Dan McClellan @maklelan • Brian McLaren @brianmclaren • Don Lemon @donlemonofficial • James Talarico @jamestalarico • Rocky Roggio @1946themovie • Rachel Held Evans @rachelheldevansSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 21. Johanna Ta (Catholic) - Faith, Culture, & The Golden RuleWhat happens when two friends from different Christian traditions choose curiosity over debate?Alexis sits down with her longtime friend Johanna Ta, a Filipino Chinese American Catholic, mother of three, and Bay Area professional, to explore faith, culture, and the real differences - and surprising similarities - between Catholicism and Protestantism.Johanna shares her story of being baptized as a newborn during a life-threatening health crisis, growing up in Catholic school, and how her faith has evolved through motherhood, cultural identity, and lived experience.Together, they unpack common misconceptions about Catholics, the role of the Pope, and what it actually means to live a Christ-like life in today’s world.They also explore: Catholic vs Protestant beliefs and practices Faith as culture, identity, and community  Parenting through the lens of the Golden Rule  Immigration, empathy, and political Christianity Johanna offers a grounded and deeply human perspective on faith:“Who am I to judge? The best I can do is live in a way that brings others along in a positive light.” As the conversation turns to the state of Christianity today, they wrestle with rising division, racism, and the concept of “toxic empathy,” returning again and again to the core of Jesus’s teaching - love your neighbor.Johanna reflects:“Maybe this is our test… how do we continue to live Christ-like despite all these challenges?” They also discuss the global Catholic Church, the leadership of @vaticannews and Pope Leo (@pontifex), and the cultural expression of faith in unexpected places - including the viral “raves of peace” by @padre.guilherme.This episode is not a debate - it’s a bridge. A conversation rooted in humility, curiosity, and the belief that we can learn from each other across traditions.💡 Key Takeaways• Catholics and Protestants share more common ground than many realize • Faith is deeply tied to culture, family, and community • Being Christ-like is about daily practice, not perfection • Empathy is central to the teachings of Jesus • Curiosity can replace defensiveness in conversations about faithAbout Our GuestJohanna Ta is a Filipino Chinese American Catholic, mother of three, and Bay Area professional. Her faith is shaped by culture, community, and a deep commitment to living out the Golden Rule.🌍 The Sacred Slope is now in 60+ countries and 1,300+ cities, sharing diverse voices of faith beyond one dominant lens.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 20. Jeremy Jernigan (Former Non-Denominational Megachurch Pastor) - The Edge of the InsideWhat happens when the church that formed you becomes the place that wounds you?Alexis sits down with Jeremy Jernigan @jeremyjernigan, former megachurch pastor, now part of a Mennonite community, host of Cabernet and Pray and Rebuilding Faith, and author of The Edge of the Inside, to explore what it means to deconstruct faith without losing Jesus.Jeremy shares his journey out of evangelical megachurch leadership, including the breaking point many experienced as white evangelical support for Trump exposed a disconnect between the teachings of Jesus and what was being lived out.They unpack deconstruction, post-evangelical faith, church hurt, and the cost of using your voice when your community would rather you stay silent. Jeremy shares what it was like to lose his job, relationships, and community—and how that loss led to a more honest, compassionate faith.They explore why many are not leaving Jesus, but leaving systems rooted in certainty, control, and power. Jeremy introduces “the edge of the inside”—a space for those who still love Jesus but no longer fit in the center—and how Mennonite theology is helping him heal.This episode includes a powerful prayer for anyone who feels alone, displaced, or hasn’t been prayed over in a long time.This episode is for anyone navigating deconstruction, progressive Christianity, LGBTQ Christianity, church hurt, Christian nationalism, or faith after evangelicalism.💡 Key Takeaways • Deconstruction can be the fruit of faith • Many left church because it no longer looked like Jesus • Certainty and control often replace compassion • There is space to follow Jesus outside the center • Healing can happen in new spiritual communitiesAbout Our Guest Jeremy Jernigan @jeremyjernigan is a former megachurch pastor, now connected with a Mennonite community. He hosts Cabernet and Pray and Rebuilding Faith and is the author of The Edge of the Inside.🎧 Podcasts Cabernet and Pray @cabernetandpray Rebuilding Faith📖 Book The Edge of the Inside: https://www.jeremyjernigan.com/edge-of-the-inside👤 Voices Mentioned Richard Rohr Tim Whitaker @timwhitakerspeaksSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 19. Podcastathon 2026 - IJM, Pastor Sarah (UCC), Rev. Joseph Yoo (Episcopal), Pastor Joe Smith (Post-Evangelical), Rev. Joe Graves (United Methodist)This episode means a lot to me. I wanted to highlight one of my favorite non-profits along with ministries from beloved pastors returning to The Sacred Slope to share the incredible work churches are doing. - Alexis RiceAlexis brings together global and local expressions of justice in this special Podcastathon (https://podcasthon.org/, @podcasthon_en) episode - featuring International Justice Mission (IJM) (one of my favorite organizations) and the return of some of your favorite Sacred Slope pastors.Alexis speaks with Miguel Lau, Global Senior Officer, Church Partnerships at International Justice Mission (IJM) to explore human trafficking, forced labor, and violence against the poor - and how justice systems can be transformed to protect millions.🌍 International Justice Mission (IJM): https://www.ijm.orgThen, some of your favorite pastors across the U.S. return to The Sacred Slope to share about some of their church ministries in their communities.Pastor Sarah (UCC - New Mexico) IG: @disorganized.religion Church: https://ucccogs.org/leadership/pastor-sarah/ Casa Q (LGBTQ youth shelter): https://www.casaq.orgMutual Aid Albuquerque: IG @abqmutualaidYouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/pwzPGpcdVsA?si=LkYFIuOpX8P1W-W8Rev. Joseph Yoo (Episcopal - Pearland, TX) IG: @joseph.yoo Church: https://www.mosaicpearland.org/ Impact Offering (school lunch debt relief)YouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/ODnIUKfRdpU?si=Nv8sD5lP20CAlx9VPastor Joe Smith (Post-evangelical - Gainesville, FL) IG: @therealjoe.smith Church: https://shiftgnv.com/all-things-shift Santa Fe College Food Pantry Pride Community Center of North Central Florida Unspoken Treasure Society: https://www.unspokensociety.org/YouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/TwspO3sPlsc?si=wKfEnxj1XR3DSuYyRev. Joe Graves (United Methodist - Ohio) IG: @josephdavidgraves Church: https://cityviewcolumbus.org/staffFeminine Resources Free Store: https://cityviewcolumbus.org/feminine-resources-free-storeMothers of Murdered Children: https://www.mothersofmurderedcolumbuschildren.com/YouTube Episode on The Sacred Slope: https://youtu.be/dXsz93ron-Q?si=1gdg5M7RuXJU1_Y0Across every conversation, one theme emerges: we can't fix everything - but we can do something.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 18. Rocky Roggio (Director, 1946: The Movie) - 1946: The Year the Word “Homosexual” Entered the BibleOne mistranslation changed theology, policy, families, and the lives of millions of LGBTQ people.Alexis sits down with Rocky Roggio @rockyroggio, director of the award-winning documentary 1946: The Movie @1946themovie, to explore the year the word “homosexual” first appeared in an English Bible and how that translation decision reshaped theology, culture, and public policy for generations.They unpack the historical research behind the film, including discoveries in the Yale archives surrounding the 1946 Revised Standard Version Bible translation. Rocky explains how one translation decision helped shape decades of church teaching and influence modern debates around LGBTQ Christianity and Bible translation.Rocky also shares the personal story behind the film, including the decision to include her own father, a minister, in the documentary. Their conversations reveal how theology is never abstract - it shows up in families, churches, and real relationships.Alexis and Rocky discuss why the film resonates with audiences across the political and theological spectrum and why understanding Bible translation history, queer theology, progressive Christianity, and Christian nationalism matters right now.This episode is for anyone - Christian or not, queer or not - who cares about truth, history, and how sacred texts are interpreted and sometimes weaponized.💡 Key Takeaways• The word “homosexual” first appeared in an English Bible in 1946• Bible translation decisions can shape theology and culture for generations• Scripture can inspire justice or be used to justify harm• Biblical literacy matters in conversations about Christian nationalism and LGBTQ inclusionAbout Our GuestRocky Roggio is the director of 1946: The Movie, an award-winning documentary investigating how the word “homosexual” first entered the English Bible and how that translation shaped modern debates around LGBTQ Christianity.🎬 Watch the filmBest way to support the filmmakers (independent streaming platform): https://watch.eventive.org/1946themovie🌍 Projects & Organizations MentionedThe Living Wall of Love - Jarko’s project featured at World Pride Amsterdam https://growingwalloflove.comMaking Things Right (LGBTQ Christian reconciliation resource) https://makingthingsright.orgClips used with permission from Rocky Roggio of 1946Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 17. Pastor Kristian A. Smith (Liberation Theology) – The Courage to Question Your AnswersAlexis Rice sits down with Pastor Kristian A. Smith — pastor, author, educator, public theologian, and host of Holy Smokes: Cigars and Spirituality — for a deeply honest and pastoral conversation about doctrine, certainty, doubt, and what it means to rebuild faith with integrity.Kristian leads The Faith Community, a digital church centered around curiosity, justice, and what he calls Greatest Commandment Theology — the idea that Jesus’ call to love God, love neighbor, and love self should guide how we interpret everything else in our Christian tradition.Together Alexis and Kristian explore why doctrine is not the same thing as scripture, how the Bible has historically been used to justify radically different moral positions, and why losing religious certainty can feel like grief. Kristian shares why doubt is not the enemy of faith and why love must remain the center of theology.Kristian closes the episode with a powerful pastoral prayer for listeners who may not have been prayed over in a long time.💡 Key Takeaways• Doctrine often reflects interpretation, not absolute certainty • “The Bible says” is often shorthand for “my tradition interprets it this way” • Losing religious certainty can bring real grief • Doubt is not the opposite of faith - it is part of faithAbout Our GuestPastor Kristian A. Smith is a pastor, author, educator, and public theologian. He is the founding pastor of The Faith Community and host of Holy Smokes: Cigars and Spirituality.IG: @thekristianasmith📚 Books, People & Resources MentionedKristian A. Smith — IG: @thekristianasmith The Faith Community — IG: @tfc.virtual Holy Smokes: Cigars & Spirituality — IG: @holysmokesmovementBooks: Breaking All the Rules – An Ancient Framework for Modern Faith & Question your answers: https://www.kristianasmith.comDan McClellan — IG: @maklelan Pete Enns — IG: @peteenns Rachel Held Evans — IG: @rachelheldevansFrederick Buechner — theologian and author https://www.frederickbuechner.comMartin Luther King Jr. — pastor and civil rights leader https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #LiberationTheology #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #ProgressiveChristianity #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 16. Tripp Fuller (Theologian, Pastor & Keeper of Chickens) - Deconstruction Can Be Holy, Healing, and Even JoyfulAlexis Rice sits down with Tripp Fuller - host of Homebrewed Christianity, founder of Theology Beer Camp, theologian, pastor, and author for a rich, funny, deeply pastoral conversation about faith after certainty.Together they explore why deconstruction does not have to mean losing God, how harmful theology can be unlearned, why questions can be sacred, and how people can reconnect with the divine without fear, shame, or rigid literalism.This episode is for anyone rethinking faith, grieving harmful theology, raising kids after evangelicalism, or longing to believe that the sacred slope can still lead somewhere beautiful.💡 Key Takeaways• Deconstruction can be painful - but also freeing, joyful, and holy• Certainty is not the same thing as faith• Centering prayer can help people reconnect with God after spiritual harm• Scripture can be read with wonder, honesty, and less fear• Kids need room for questions, ritual, and belonging - not rigid answers• The Spirit may be present even in the questions that unsettle usAbout Our GuestTripp Fuller is a theologian, pastor, podcast host, and founder of Homebrewed Christianity and Theology Beer Camp.IG: @trippfullerHomebrewed Christianity: @theologynerdTheology Beer Camp: @theologybeercamp📚 Books, People & Resources MentionedGod After Deconstruction by Tripp Fuller & Thomas Jay Oord:https://a.co/d/03BF15TPTheology Beer Camp 2026- I'll be there- are you coming?Kansas City, MissouriOctober 8–10, 2026https://www.homebrewedchristianty.com/theology-beer-camp/Thomas Jay Oord — IG: @thomasjayoordBrian McLaren — IG: @brian_mclarenRachel Held Evans — IG: @rachelheldevansPete Enns — IG: @peteenns#Deconstruction #ProgressiveChristianity #Christianity #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #Exvangelical #Theology #CenteringPrayer #OpenAndRelationalTheology #TheSacredSlope #TrippFullerSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 15. Rabbi Lexi Erdheim (Judaism) & Rev. Joel Simpson (Methodist) – When Faith Leaders Protect the Vulnerable TogetherAlexis Rice sits down with Rabbi Lexi Erdheim and Rev. Joel Simpson—two faith leaders from different traditions whose friendship models curiosity, respect, and shared moral responsibility.Together they explore what interfaith relationships can teach us about protecting the vulnerable, listening across real differences, and showing up for neighbors in moments of crisis.This conversation is about friendship, moral courage, and the kind of world that becomes possible when faith traditions work side by side to protect human dignity.💡 Key Takeaways • Interfaith relationships deepen empathy • Faith traditions share a call to protect the vulnerable • Scripture can be weaponized—or inspire compassion • Real change begins with relationships across difference • Curiosity and humility strengthen collaboration • Faith leaders can help communities resist fear and polarizationAbout Our GuestsRabbi Lexi Erdheim is the Associate Rabbi at Temple Beth-El in Charlotte, NC. Ordained at Hebrew Union College and a graduate of Barnard College, she works at the intersection of Jewish life, public policy, and interfaith organizing.Temple Beth-El Charlotte IG/FB/TikTok: @tbeclt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/jewtubecharlotteRev. Joel Simpson is a Methodist pastor at First United Methodist Church in Taylorsville, NC and a doctoral student at Duke University. His work connects faith, community organizing, and advocacy for vulnerable communities.IG: @joelrsimpson FB: @joel.simpson.98 Substack: @joelsimpson📚 People & Organizations MentionedSiembra NC — IG: @siembranc Carolina Jews for Justice — IG: @carolinajewsforjustice Repairers of the Breach — IG: @repairersofthebreach Rev. Dr. William Barber — IG: @revbwilliambarber2 Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove — IG: @jonathanwilsonhartgrove Shane Claiborne — IG: @shaneclaiborne Barbara Brown Taylor — https://barbarabrowntaylor.com/ Rabbi Sandra Lawson — IG: @rabbisandralawsonDuke University — IG: @dukeuniversity Candler School of Theology (Emory) — IG: @candler_school Hebrew Union College — IG: @hebrewunioncollege Barnard College — IG: @barnardcollegeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

14. William Gibson (Church of Scotland) – When Christianity Gets Co-Opted by PowerWhat does American Christian nationalism look like… from Scotland?In this episode, Alexis Rice is joined by William Gibson - a Scottish church historian and soon-to-be minister in the Church of Scotland - to zoom out of the American bubble and name what many outside the U.S. can see so clearly: when Christianity gets fused with nationalism, it becomes a weapon.William doesn’t just critique - he offers language, history, and hopeful resistance: collective action, ecumenical courage, and a faith that refuses empire.If you’ve been watching “Christianity” used to justify cruelty and thinking, This cannot be Jesus… this conversation is for you.🎙️ About Our Guest William Gibson is a PhD student in Theology & Religious Studies at the University of Glasgow and a candidate for ministry in the Church of Scotland. His work focuses on modern church history, mission, and the way faith intersects with power, economics, and community life - including trade unions, labor, and Christian ethics. Find William: @williamgibsongla 💬 In This Episode • How American Christian nationalism is perceived globally • Why “Christian symbolism” at nationalist rallies is alarming • The Church of Scotland: broad, Presbyterian, Reformed - without U.S.-style fundamentalism • Christianity as culturally mediated (and why that matters) • Capitalism, greed, solidarity - and the Bible’s uncomfortable clarity • Bonhoeffer, Niemöller, and what Christian resistance really costs • A prayer for the spiritually tender and spiritually tired📚 Resources + Verified Instagram Handles • Church of Scotland - @churchofscotland • The Iona Community - @ionacommunity • Wild Goose Publications (Iona books) - @ionabooks • Awake, Emerging, and Connected (publisher) - @scm_press • Student Christian Movement (UK) - @studentchristianmovement • World Communion of Reformed Churches - @reformed_communion • Trinity College Glasgow - @trinitycollegeglasgow • Lamorna Ash - @lamornaaash • The Sacred Slope - @thesacredslope #Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealth #ChurchOfScotland #Scotland #ProgressiveChristianity #ExvangelicalSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

13. Jared Byas (The Bible for Normal People) – Taking the Bible Seriously But Not LiterallyAlexis sits down with Jared Byas - co-host of The Bible for Normal People (along with Pete Enns) and author of Love Matters More — to explore what it really means to take Scripture seriously. For many of us raised in evangelical spaces, we were taught that taking the Bible seriously meant taking it literally. But what happens when reading closely actually raises more questions? When you see the “wrinkles” and the humanity in the text? When certainty starts to crack?💬 In This Episode• “Taking the Bible seriously will inevitably lead you to not take it literally” • The “wrinkles” in Scripture - and choosing intimacy over perfection • Why “speaking the truth in love” often becomes a power move • Paul’s black swan moment and theological transformation • Fear vs. love in Christian formation • Rebuilding trust in the Bible after church harm • Parenting with curiosity instead of control • For the spiritually tender: you’re not backsliding - you’re paying attention👥 People/Resources MentionedJared Byas: @jaredbyasThe Bible for Normal People: @biblefornormalpeoplePete Enns: @peteennsCurious Faith Media: @curiousfaithmediaRachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevansLove Matters More by Jared Byas: https://www.jaredbyas.comGod's Stories as told by God's Children: https://a.co/d/087F8ZFNGod's Stories as told by God's Children for Adults: https://a.co/d/0fteC7QR#Christianity #deconstruction #reconstruction #ChristianSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

12. Rachel Held Evans (Braving the Truth) with Sarah BesseySarah Bessey joins Alexis Rice for a special release-day episode honoring Braving the Truth by Rachel Held Evans - out now.Alexis and Sarah read from Rachel's book, reflect on holy anger, spiritual wilderness, life after evangelicalism many are living in real time, and why Rachel’s voice feels less like nostalgia and more like necessity.Braving The Truth from @HarperCollins https://www.harpercollins.com/products/braving-the-truth-rachel-held-evans💬 In This Episode• Reading: “Life After Evangelicalism” (originally posted Nov 14, 2016) • Sarah on editing Rachel’s work: grief, time travel, and why this book feels like a gift “from the past for the future of the church” • Reading: “Why I Can’t Stay Angry Even Though I Want To” • Women, power, patriarchy — and why Rachel’s work was truly threatening (because it was making change) • For the spiritually tender: you belong, and “there’s always room for more”👥 People/Resources MentionedRachel Held Evans: @rachelheldevans Sarah Bessey: @sarahbessey Evolving Faith: @evolvfaith Glennon Doyle: @glennondoyle Jen Hatmaker: @jenhatmaker Jeff Chu: @jeffchu Matthew Paul Turner: @matthewpaulturner Brian McLaren: @brianmclaren Pete Enns: @peteenns Dan McClellan: @maklelan🎙 Credits: “Come Thou Fount” used with permission by Sara Groves @grovesroad#Christianity #deconstruction #RachelHeldEvans #BravingTheTruthSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

11. Seth A. Cain (Non-Denominational) - Deconstructing While LeadingIn this raw conversation, Alexis Rice sits down with Seth A. Cain - a former non-denominational lead pastor (14+ years) whose ministry came to a breaking point when he was asked to resign after being open to performing a same-sex wedding.Before we begin: to the pastors who are deconstructing - especially in American non-denominational spaces - I see you. When a pastor deconstructs, it’s not only grief. It can be livelihood on the line: reputation, housing, healthcare, decades of relationships, and the identity you built your life around.The Sacred Slope is listened to in 50+ countries because Christianity doesn’t belong to one nation, one political party, or one expression. This is a space for the curious, the deconstructing, and the reconstructing - where LGBTQ+ inclusion is safe, women in leadership are affirmed, and we believe God loves all people with dignity and worth.💬 In this episode: • How Seth was “preaching love and acceptance” without being direct — until a real-life moment demanded integrity • The phone call that changed everything: “Just pencil me in and I’ll figure out the rest” • The cost of saying yes - and the heartbreak of “all are welcome” with a no-fly zone • “Transcend and include,” deconstruction in real time, and why certainty can feel like “pillars in quicksand” • A closing prayer for anyone who feels unseen, isolated, or rejected by church spaces👤 About Our Guest Seth A. Cain is a writer, speaker, and former pastor. “Everything is like Seth Andrew Cain,” including Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook. (@sethandrewcain)🔗 Links & Resources (Books + Seth Online)Seth links (all platforms): https://linktr.ee/sethacain“But How’d You Get There?” (YouTube channel / playlist): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCio30AwkmXzEwhAYoDtUKYATo Give the Universe a Hug (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FMNRGBDCLife Is Beautiful (book): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09WH56B9F#Christianity #deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #MentalHealth #ProgressiveChristianity #ProgressiveClergy #ChurchHurt #Exvangelical #LGBTQ #WomenInMinistrySupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 10. Rev. Dr. Sarah Townes aka Pastor Sarah of Disorganized Religion (UCC) — Faith That Resists EmpireRev. Dr. Sarah Townes is helping thousands rediscover a Christianity rooted not in power — but in conscience, community, and courage.In this episode, Alexis Rice sits down with UCC pastor, organizer, and digital ministry leader Rev. Dr. Sarah Townes, known online as Pastor Sarah of @disorganized.religion, to explore a version of Christianity many people were never taught: Christian resistance — protecting the vulnerable, building community, and telling a truer story than empire tells.Drawing from scripture, church history, and modern organizing, Pastor Sarah shows how Christian resistance spans centuries — from early church movements to global resistance stories to modern mutual aid and faith-rooted organizing.Together, Alexis and Sarah explore today’s spiritual hunger for faith spaces where certain questions are not dismissed as "doubts", dignity is protected, and belief is lived through action. They also discuss digital church spaces — from livestream congregations to Discord-based communities — and how online faith spaces are becoming lifelines for people healing from church harm, navigating deconstruction, or seeking belonging outside traditional church structures.Stay through the end for Pastor Sarah’s blessing for those rebuilding faith after spiritual harm.👤 About Our Guest Rev. Dr. Sarah Townes is a United Church of Christ pastor serving Church of the Shepherd (Albuquerque, NM). She helps people explore progressive Christianity, deconstruction, and justice-rooted faith through digital ministry.🔗 Resources Mentioned*The Bible For Normal People @biblefornormalpeople*1946 the movie @1946themovie with Director @rockyroggio *Checkpoint Church (Digital / Discord church) https://www.checkpointchurch.com/@checkpointchurch*#ProgressiveClergy*Riverside Church (NYC Digital Ministry) https://www.trcnyc.org/@riversidechurchnyc*Convergence Digital Ministry Fellowship https://convergenceus.org/digital-ministry-fellows/@convergenceus*James Talarico @jamestalarico on @stephencolbert (both Christians, Stephen- Catholic, James- United Methodist, both progressive)🕊️ Stay to the end for Pastor Sarah’s blessing for a reconstructing faith.Support the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

9. David Clayton - (He's not MAGA, please don't scroll. He's got a moral compass and a soul.)Alexis Rice speaks with David Clayton - a powerhouse of conviction who has broken through on social media, creator of the Official Empathy Tour, and candidate running for North Carolina’s 5th Congressional District - about faith, political power, empathy, and living with moral clarity in a time of cultural and spiritual noise.David has built a massive audience across social platforms by speaking directly about corruption, representation, dignity, and the human cost of systems that prioritize power over people. He says what many people are thinking and his messages are a breath of fresh air. In this conversation, he shares the life experiences that shaped his worldview, including personal loss, caregiving, and work supporting veterans experiencing homelessness.Together, Alexis and David discuss the misuse of religion in politics, the difference between faith and religious power structures, and why many Americans - across political identities - feel unrepresented by current leadership. David also shares why empathy, service, and accountability shape how he views faith and public leadership.This episode is for listeners who feel politically or spiritually disoriented, for those questioning how faith is used in public life, and for anyone searching for voices grounded in integrity - for those who still believe - as David says- in having a moral compass and a soul.⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide, loss, and grief. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988 (U.S. Suicide & Crisis Lifeline) or visit 988lifeline.org. You are not alone.💡 Key Takeaways• Faith as belief vs faith used for political gain• Why representation requires lived empathy• How trauma can shape compassion and service👤 About Our GuestDavid Clayton is running for North Carolina’s 5th Congressional District and is known for direct, values-driven conversations about faith, politics, and culture. He has built a large cross-platform audience by speaking candidly about corruption, representation, and moral responsibility in leadership. His work focuses on veteran advocacy, government accountability, and restoring dignity to public policy conversations.🔗 David Clayton - Official Links & Social Handles🌐 Campaign Website https://www.clayton4nc.com🔗 Link Hub https://direct.me/empathytour📱 Social Media Instagram (Empathy Tour): @officialempathytour Instagram (Campaign): @davidclayton4nc Bluesky: @empathytour.bsky.social TikTok: @davidempathytourclayton, @empathytourSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 8. Rev. Darrell Goodwin (UCC) — The God of Our Wildest Dreams (Spotlight Re-Release)There are conversations that inform you… and conversations that do something to you. This one did something to me.After speaking with Rev. Darrell Goodwin, I felt blessed—my soul filled, stretched, challenged, and hopeful. His words carry rare pastoral tenderness and prophetic clarity. This conversation is profound not because it is loud, but because it names what so many people have lived and rarely hear spoken with this much truth and compassion.This episode is for every person told “not you,” and for anyone who still longs for Jesus but doesn’t trust the building anymore. It is for the wounded, the deconstructing, and those discerning faith after church harm.Rev. Goodwin explores how faith can expand—not by abandoning God—but by releasing versions of God rooted in fear, shame, or exclusion.He challenges churches and progressive spaces alike: if we say “come as you are,” we must mean it—and create space for people to heal enough to believe us.If your early faith trained you to fear God, he offers a liberating invitation: sometimes you must stop believing in the God of limitation to encounter the God of your wildest dreams.💡 Key Takeaways • Queer people often carry profound spiritual gifts—and the church wounds them early • Deconstruction often begins in heartbreak and can lead to freedom • Scripture invites wrestling, not control • “Come as you are” must be practiced, not performed • The Church needs both welcome and depth • Liberation is lived through right relationship—with self, God, and others • God knocks—God does not kick the door in👤 About Our Guest Rev. Darrell Goodwin is the Executive Conference Minister for the Southern New England Conference of the United Church of Christ (UCC), overseeing 600+ congregations. He is the first openly queer Black person to serve in this role within the UCC and is completing doctoral work at San Francisco Theological Seminary.His ministry focuses on liberation theology, racial justice, LGBTQ+ inclusion, and healing from religious harm while reconnecting people to life-giving faith.🔗 Connect + Learn More Rev. Darrell Goodwin — IG: @revdgoodwin Southern New England Conference (UCC) — IG: @sneucc United Church of Christ — IG: @unitedchurchofchristSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 7. Cody Deese (Spiritual Collective Pastor) The Pastor This Moment Has Been Waiting ForIn this urgent and culturally relevant episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis Rice is joined by Cody Deese @codydeese - pastor of the Vining’s Lake spiritual collective @viningslake and author of Discovering Your Internal Universe: The Unexpected Good News About Anxiety, Panic, and Fear.At a time when Christianity is increasingly entangled with political power and nationalist ideology, this conversation explores what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus in a moment defined by division, fear, & institutional mistrust. Alexis & Cody examine the historical dangers of religion merging with empire and why Christian nationalism represents a political ideology rather than a theological one.The episode also moves into deeply personal territory, addressing anxiety, religious trauma, & the long arc of healing - intellectually, neurologically, emotionally, & somatically. Together, they explore how both love & suffering can become catalysts for transformation, & why many people are simultaneously deconstructing faith, national identity, inherited narratives about power- & ending up with a faith that is more beautiful & expansive than ever before.✨ Ep Themes• Christianity and power in modern America• Revelation as social and spiritual critique• Faith deconstruction beyond doctrine• Anxiety, trauma, and body-based healing• Community as a stabilizing force in cultural disruption• Hope and moral agency in destabilizing historical moments🕊️ The episode concludes with a spoken benediction from Pastor Cody for listeners navigating political anxiety, church trauma, spiritual isolation, or moral fatigue - offering language of dignity, compassion, and collective responsibility.📚 Resources & Voices Mentioned • Discovering Your Internal Universe: The Unexpected Good News About Anxiety, Panic, and Fear by Cody Deese, Forward by Rob Bell @realrobbell: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802885401/discovering-your-internal-universe/ • Vining’s Lake Spiritual Collective: https://www.viningslake.org • Richard Rohr Podcast: Another Name for Everything https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/another-name-for-every-thing-with-richard-rohr/id1452609613• Pete Enns: @peteenns • The Bible for Normal People: @thebiblefornormalpeople • Cory Booker: @corybookerSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 6. April Ajoy (Leaving Christian Nationalism, Keeping Jesus) – Star-Spangled JesusAlexis Rice speaks with author and commentator April Ajoy (@aprilajoy) about Christian nationalism, deconstruction, and what it costs to leave certainty without leaving faith.April grew up in white evangelical, Pentecostal spaces where theology, politics, and identity were tightly bound. In this conversation, she describes how Christian nationalism forms people from the inside—how doubt is framed as spiritual failure, how loyalty is enforced, and how questioning can cost you community, family, and belonging.Together, Alexis and April discuss January 6 as a turning point for many former evangelicals, the pressure Christians face around voting and abortion, and why Christian nationalism is not fringe but structurally embedded in American political and religious life. April also names what comes after deconstruction: uncertainty, grief, and a less coercive faith rooted in the teachings of Jesus rather than fear or power.This episode is for listeners trying to understand how Christianity became a vehicle for exclusion and control—and for those still inside Christian spaces who sense something is off but don’t yet have language for it.💡 Key Takeaways• Why deconstruction is often involuntary and destabilizing• How Christian nationalism disguises itself as “Biblical truth”• Why abortion bans fail to reduce abortions, and what does• The difference between Christianity and Christian nationalism• What remains when certainty collapses👤 About Our GuestApril Ajoy is the author of Star-Spangled Jesus, co-host of The Tim & April Show Podcast (@timandaprilshow), and hilarious social media influencer. Her work examines Christian nationalism, evangelical political formation, and what accountability and faith can look like after leaving authoritarian religious systems.📚 Resources & Mentions📖 Star-Spangled Jesus – April Ajoy https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668016284🎙 The Tim & April Show – @timandaprilshow 🟡 The New Evangelicals – @thenewevangelicals 🗣 Tim Whitaker – @timwhitakerspeaks 📘 The Bible for Normal People – @thebiblefornormalpeople 📖 Pete Enns – @peteennsSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control

🎙️ 5. Rev. Katie Nakamura-Rengers (Episcopal) – Standing in Awe: Faith Beyond CertaintyIn this deeply grounding episode of The Sacred Slope, Alexis Rice is joined by Reverend Katie Nakamura-Rengers (@katienakamurarengers)—an Episcopal priest, musician, and bridge-builder whose ministry invites us to slow down, release certainty, and rediscover faith rooted in presence and relationship. Reverend Katie was recommended to The Sacred Slope by Reverend Joseph Yoo (@joseph.yoo), and you will know why once you listen. In a moment when Christianity is often pressured to be louder, faster, and more confident, this conversation offers a counter-witness: awe. Drawing from Anglican and Anglo-Catholic traditions, Reverend Katie reflects on how liturgy, silence, music, and embodied worship form us not through rigid rules, but through mystery and relational love.Alexis and Katie explore why Jesus resists moral “protocols,” how God is encountered in the space between people—especially where power shifts—and why faith doesn’t require having all the answers to be deeply alive.✨ In this conversation, we explore: • Why faith doesn’t need certainty to be faithful • How stillness and silence shape us in a distracted age • Why rules exist for people—not people for rules • Finding God in the space between us • What embodied, sensory worship offers deconstructing Christians • Why awe is a spiritual practice, not an intellectual failure🕊️ Reverend Katie closes the episode with a prayer for listeners who may not have been prayed over in a long time—especially those who feel spiritually tender, tired, or unseen.💛 A note to our listeners: If this episode helped you breathe or loosen your grip on certainty, please share it with someone who may need that permission right now. Following, rating, and reviewing the podcast helps The Sacred Slope continue reaching those seeking faith grounded in love, not fear.#Christianity #Deconstruction #OpenAndAffirming #ProgressiveChristianity #Exvangelical #FaithAfterEvangelicalism #WomenInMinistry #QueerTheology #MentalHealth #TheSacredSlopeSupport the showAbout The Sacred SlopeWhere the slippery slope becomes sacred ground.For the spiritually tender—raised in or rooted in Christianity.Come explore our global, diverse, inclusive Christian faith, deconstruction, and spiritual identity in a rapidly changing world. Through conversations with clergy, scholars, and cultural voices, the show creates space for people navigating faith after certainty, church harm, or political co-option of religion.🎧 WATCH: YouTube / Spotify     LISTEN: Apple Podcasts + everywhere     FOLLOW: @thesacredslope (IG, FB, Threads, TikTok, YouTube, Bluesky)🔗 Connect🎧 Explore episodes & community: linktr.ee/TheSacredSlope 🎙 Hosted by Alexis Rice 🎵 Music by Brett Rutledge, Eddie Irvin & Sean Spence 📬 Nominate a guest: [email protected]🌿 Community Guidelines 🌿Fruit of the Spirit:  ❤️ love • 💫 joy • ☮️ peace • 🕊 patience • 💝 kindness • 🌿 goodness • 🙏 faithfulness • 🤲 gentleness • 💪 self-control