The Third Pint Theory

"I had this outside looking in view of New Zealand on many different levels but one of them was this nostalgia and beautiful memories of the coastal lifestyle... I missed that, you know, being able to go to the seaside and that really resonated with me and in how I wanted to build a brand and so it was about the coast and and the quintessential Kiwi bach represented that." — Craig Cooper on the nostalgic inspiration behind Bach Brewing In this episode, host Michael Donaldson sits down with Craig Cooper, a 38-year veteran of the liquor industry and the founder of Bach Brewing. Craig reflects on his extensive career, which began as a marketing graduate trainee for Lion and took him across Australia and Amsterdam before he returned to New Zealand to buy into Hawke's Bay's Limburg Brewery in 2005. Thirteen years ago, he launched his own venture, designing a brand that captured his nostalgia for the quintessential coastal Kiwi "bach" lifestyle, brought to life through the vibrant watercolor label art of renowned illustrator Donovan Bixley. The conversation then shifts to the logistical realities of building a major craft beer brand without owning a physical brewery. Craig explains his long-standing partnership with Steam Brewing, who have contract brewed his beers for the entire 13-year lifespan of the company. Because the contract model involves paying a manufacturer's margin, Craig candidly discusses how impossible it became to compete on price in the traditional six-pack market. As a result, Bach Brewing made the strategic decision to avoid six-packs, focusing their efforts on premium 440ml cans and single serves to maintain a sustainable, competitive business. Finally, the episode dives deep into the booming non-alcoholic beer sector, a category where Bach Brewing has established itself as an early pioneer. Craig details the technical evolution of brewing their non-alcoholic range, highlighting their shift toward specialty yeast strains and the heavy use of cryo hops and hop oils to extract maximum flavor and aroma without the alcohol. This relentless focus on quality paid off massively when they won the trophy for the best non-alcoholic beer at the prestigious Australian International Beer Awards for their All Day Hazy. Grab a fresh can and tune in for an incredible masterclass on branding, contract brewing, and surviving a tough industry! If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

"I'm always out on the farm as much as I can. Yeah. And in the malt plant as well. So yeah, it's my passion really. I'm a bit of a home boy I suppose." Doug Michael of Gladfield Malt on the importance of his rural roots. Welcome back to The Third Pint Theory! In this episode, hosts Michael Donaldson and Martin Bridges catch up with Doug Michael, the founder of Gladfield Malt. Doug discusses his roots growing up on a mixed-cropping farm in Canterbury, where his family managed 1,500 mixed-age ewes alongside crops like barley, wheat, peas, and clover seed. A passionate homebrewer since the age of 19, Doug saw a unique opportunity to supply the emerging New Zealand craft beer scene with high-quality, local malt. He and his wife Gabi built a small malting plant and officially launched Gladfield in 2004, sending highly successful early samples to industry pioneers like Dux de Lux and Emerson’s. The conversation dives into the growth and mechanics of the malting process. Doug explains how they expanded their operation significantly around 2011 and 2012 by building their own roaster. This critical addition allowed Gladfield Malt to produce a full range of specialty products, including crystal and chocolate malts, which have become absolute staples for brewers across the country. Despite his success and the growth of the business, Doug emphasizes that his true passion remains out on the farm and in the malt plant, describing himself as a "homeboy" who is deeply dedicated to the hands-on nature of his craft. Looking beyond the farm, the episode touches upon the broader realities of the brewing industry. While the current economic climate presents challenges for breweries and their suppliers, Doug's journey from a university student to a global traveler and back to the family farm highlights the resilience and innovation needed to succeed. Gladfield Malt's story is a fantastic testament to identifying a local niche in the market and building a foundational business that supports the thriving craft beer community. In the post-interview ramble, Martin mentioned a book by UK beer writer Pete Brown on working men’s clubs, but couldn’t remember the title - it’s “CLUBLAND: How the Working Men’s Club Shaped Britain”. Highly recommended. If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

"I don't think it's going away and nor should it... what I don't like is when there's five taps and three of them are the same thing... it's just not giving people what they want, it's giving people what they think they want." Greig McGill on the over-saturation of hazy beers. In this fantastic episode, Martin finally makes the journey to the "city of the future" - Hamilton - to sit down with Greig McGill at his brewery, Brewaucracy. The pair crack open a beer and dive right into the history of their nearly 20-year friendship, reminiscing about the early, wild days of the New Zealand craft beer scene. They swap stories about the formation of SOBA (Society of Beer Advocates), and the sheer passion that united a small group of enthusiasts before "craft beer" was a mainstream concept. Greig talks about who came up with the SOBA name - in the interview he couldn’t remember the surname of Brendon McKenzie, but I’m happy to rectify that in these show notes! The conversation then shifts to Greig's personal journey into the brewing business. He shares the story about what drove him to leave a long, stable career in IT to launch Brewaucracy: extreme burnout. Describing himself as feeling completely drained and unfulfilled, Greig sought a radical change, deciding to turn his long-time passion for homebrewing into a full-time, commercial reality. However, he initially started the brewery (with longtime friend Phil Murray) as a side project, contract brewing out of Shunters Yard without the serious intention of turning it into the full-scale, dedicated taproom it is today. Finally, the duo discusses the current state of the New Zealand beer market and what the future holds for craft brewing. They candidly address the decline of the "haze craze," with Greig predicting that while hazy IPAs aren't disappearing, the market is oversaturated, and the days of endless, identical hazy releases are fading. The episode ends on an optimistic note, with both Martin and Greig expressing a strong hope for a true resurgence in traditional English styles, like bitters and milds, emphasizing that the true mark of a great brewer is the ability to craft a perfect, low-ABV classic. If you’re looking for Greig’s YouTube beer reviews, you can find them here. If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

“The way we look at it is that Garage Project isn't just a brewery, it's a creative studio that happens to work in beer. It's always coming up with new beers, new names, the way you put on an event. It’s much easier to think of it as a creative studio that just happens to use beer as its medium.” Howard Greive on the essence of Garage Project. In this deeply insightful episode, host Michael Donaldson sits down with a truly foundational figure in the New Zealand craft beer scene: Howard Greive. While you might not immediately recognize his name, Howard is one of the original investors behind the iconic Garage Project. He shares his fascinating transition from a long, successful career in the high-stakes world of advertising—specifically navigating the corporate structure of agencies like Saatchi & Saatchi—to diving headfirst into the chaotic, bootstrap reality of launching a craft brewery. The conversation dives into the unorthodox beginnings of Garage Project. Howard recounts the legendary story of how the brewery was born out of a desire for a creative outlet that wasn't bound by traditional rules or massive budgets. He details their incredibly ambitious first move: committing to brewing 24 different beers in 24 weeks on a tiny, 50-litre kit and launching them out of an old petrol station on Aro Street. With the benefit of his background in advertising, Howard explains how the brand's unique identity came to be, treating Garage Project not just as a brewery, but as a "creative studio that happens to work in beer". This meant relentless innovation, playful branding, and an absolute refusal to be boxed into a standard "core range." Finally, Howard reflects on the evolution of Garage Project, from its humble, scrappy origins to becoming a global brand and a cornerstone of Wellington's creative identity. He discusses the challenges of maintaining their punk-rock, experimental ethos as the business scaled massively, requiring significant capital investment and a shift from a wild creative project into a serious, structured enterprise. Now having stepped back from the board while remaining a dedicated shareholder, Howard offers a candid look at the ongoing necessity for fresh energy and new investors to keep the brewery pushing boundaries in an increasingly competitive market. Tune in for a masterclass on branding, beer, and business! If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

"I think it's a little bugbear of mine that a lot of people demand or seem to want 'dank'. I think dank is not necessarily a fresh hop characteristic and to expect lots of it in a fresh hop beer is, I think, sometimes misguided." Michael Donaldson on one of the common misconceptions of fresh hop beers. Welcome to a special, guest-free episode of The Third Pint Theory podcast! In this session, hosts Michael Donaldson and Martin Bridges are flying solo—accompanied only by Martin's dog, Luna—to dive headfirst into an extensive fresh hop tasting. Fresh off his experience judging the Behemoth fresh hop competition, where he sampled more than 10 different fresh hop beers back-to-back, Martin boldly declares that, despite the sheer volume of releases flooding the market, this is the best year he has ever seen in terms of overall quality. The episode serves as a masterclass in understanding what makes a fresh hop beer truly great. The hosts kick things off by praising the ParrotDog Fresh Hop Pilsner and a weighty, oily New Zealand IPA from Duncan's called Kemical Romance, before tackling a common misconception in the craft beer community. Michael expresses his frustration with consumers who constantly demand "dank" characteristics, explaining that true fresh hop magic is more about a unique, sticky mouthfeel and a vibrant flavor integration rather than harsh, grassy chlorophyll. The duo highlights how the best beers this year, like the competition-winning St. Leonards Riwaka West Coast Pilsner, perfectly balance these elements without becoming astringent. Beyond the tasting notes, Michael and Martin pull back the curtain on the harsh logistical realities of the fresh hop season. They reveal a massive hurdle breweries faced this year: a sudden change in how air freight pricing is calculated, shifting from weight-based to volumetric. Because fresh hop cones are very light but take up massive amounts of physical space, shipping them across the country has become exorbitantly expensive, putting a massive financial strain on brewers trying to participate in the season. Grab your favorite seasonal release and enjoy this deep dive into the fleeting magic of fresh hops! The beers that the team tasted in this episode were: Parrotdog Fresh Hop Pilsner Duncan’s Kemical Romance NZ IPA Three Sisters Wayward Son NZ Pale Ale Behemoth Cheech & Chong Hazy IPA McLeods Harvest Cold IPA Brave Brewing Helping Hands IPA If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

"In essence we’re a country pub where people come together, brought together mostly by food and sociability” founder Geoff Gwynne on the magic of the McLeod's Pizza Barn. In this episode Martin makes a pilgrimage to his “spiritual home”, the McLeods Pizza Barn in Waipu, Northland, to sit down with Geoff Gwynne, co-owner of the venue and McLeods Brewery. Geoff takes us through the origin story of the restaurant, talking about how he and his brother Clayton made the not-so-obvious jump from fashion retail into hospitality. Deciding to open a brewery in the craft beer boom of the 2010s might have been a good idea, but McLeods had to overcome commercial difficulties and personal tragedy before finding success with award-winning beers brewed by their (now former) brewer Jason Bathgate. Geoff talks about their search for Jason’s successor and happily describes how Gav Williams has quickly settled into life in Northland. Along the way Geoff expounds on the McLeods ethos of delivering quality food and drink to a diverse crowd in their own slice of paradise. Grab a beer and settle in for an anecdote-filled romp through the backstory of one of New Zealand’s most-beloved breweries. If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

Welcome to another episode of the podcast! This time, Martin sits down for a morning pint with Dylan from Brothers Beer at their impressive Mount Eden taproom, built right around a full-size 2,000-litre production brewery. The conversation kicks off with a look back at Dylan's brewing journey, starting with his nearly eight-year stint at Deep Creek. Dylan reflects on the "golden age" of the brewery, sharing the creative process behind award-winning brews like the Undercurrent Pilsner and their spontaneous sour program, before candidly discussing the perfect storm of expansion costs and COVID-19 that ultimately led to the brewery's sudden liquidation. The story takes a dramatic turn as Dylan details his transition to Brothers Beer, arriving just before the brewery faced its own economic hurdles and went into voluntary administration. In a fascinating twist, Brothers Beer was saved from liquidation by a Chinese beer distributor. Dylan opens up about the massive scale and importance of the Chinese export market, explaining how this unexpected lifeline transformed their business model and kept the brewery alive during a severe local economic downturn that saw craft beer sales plummet in New Zealand. Finally, we get a deep dive into the highly specific and demanding tastes of the Chinese craft beer market. Dylan reveals that "Hazy is king" in China, with a massive demand for incredibly strong, sweet beers, prompting Brothers to brew multiple triple and even quadruple IPAs clocking in at 10% to 12% ABV. He explains the unique technical challenges of brewing these behemoths—from managing exhausted yeast and massive dry-hopping rates to tweaking recipes to hit the exact pale mango color their export customers demand. It's a fantastic, behind-the-scenes look at the realities of the modern brewing business. Grab a beer (even if it's morning) and tune in! If you enjoy this episode please like, subscribe and comment on your favourite podcast platform. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions for future topics/guests feel free to drop us an email at [email protected] or [email protected].

Michael & Martin are joined by Denise Garland and Dave Wood, who own Wellington's Winter Ales Festival. They talk to us about what's involved in running a boutique beer festival and what fans can expect from this year's event. Plus Dave and Denise are veterans of the Wellington beer and hospitality scene, so are well-placed to discuss whether the Wellington hospo scene is as bad as it's made out to to be. And with experience of the Scottish beer industry we talk also delve into the BrewDog debacle.

The annual Rare Beer Challenge, designed to raise money for Rare Disorders NZ, is on this year at Auckland's 16Tun, which takes over from the defunct Fortune Favours as the show host. Martin visits 16Tun owner Ewen Thorpe to find out how a one-time member of the Team NZ yachting crew ended up owning a waterside bar. Ewen also has great insights into the state of the beer economy from the POV of a bar owner.

Mount Brewing are celebrating 30 years in business — quite an achievement for the small Bay of Plenty operation. Michael and Martin look back at Mount Brewing's history and Martin chats with head brewer Pawel Lewandowski about how a young Polish tuniversity graduate ended up brewing beer in New Zealand.

Martin visits the just-opened Neck Of The Woods brew pub in Tauriko, just outside Tauranga, and talks to owner Scott Taylor about his journey home to the Bay of Plenty and his years at the ill-fated Deep Creek. This is the first of two pods from the Bay of Plenty, with Mount Brewing next up. Michael and Martin also discuss the recent Rising Tide Lagerfest, and dissect the winners.

New Plymouth brewery Three Sisters are expanding in to Wellington and raising new capital to further grow their production. It's on the back of strong growth both within New Zealand and overseas in 2025, driven by their unique smoothie sour offerings. Martin and Michael usher in 2026 by looking at the success of Three Sisters and analysing the problems facing Behemoth, who are taking on a private equity raise to cover long-term debt.

Michael & Martin look back on the year in beer, looking at the highlights (of which there were plenty) and the lowlights (fortunately, they were few). We name our beers of the year and discuss which breweries impressed us the most in 2025.

Hazy IPA has been part of the New Zealand beer market for just on a decade. Michael and Martin discuss the impact of the haze craze before crossing over to our last Q&A from this year's Beervana festival which features James Cooper and Laura Park from Lakeman and Andrew Childs from Behemoth talking all things hazy.

Michael and Martin discuss the big news stories of the past week — the saving of Hop Federation after Blenheim's DNA stepped in to buy the brand — and the sale of Christchurch icon Three Boys, which is now owned by the head brewer Damian Treacher and his business partner Jason Bass. That links into our Beervana live Q&A with Brian Watson of Good George and Eddie Gapper of Altitude Brewing about the state of the brewing industry in NZ.

Sawmill Brewing in Matakana, north of Auckland, are renowned for their sustainability programme. As New Zealand's only B Corp certified craft brewery they are leading the way for breweries that aim to not only make good beer, but do good things for the environment, and the people who work for them. Co-host Martin Bridges visits owners Kirsty McKay and Mike Sutherland to find out what makes them so successful when it comes to maximising their beer sales while minimising their environmental footprint. Michael and Martin also discuss their award-winning beers and branding as well as looking back at their humble origins.

George Duncan of Duncan's Brewing in Paraparaumu and Joe Emans of Three Sisters in New Plymouth are two of the best when it comes to the innovative dessert-style beers. Whether it's smoothie sours, ice cream sours, pastry stouts or milkshake IPAs, these two are industry leaders. They join Michael & Martin at Beervana to talk about beers that didn't even exist a few years ago.

Epic and Hallertau are two of the most influential breweries in New Zealand when it comes to hop-driven, American-style IPAs. Both breweries turn 20 this year and their respective founders, Luke Nicholas from Epic and Steve Plowman from Hallertau, talk about the early years of the hop revolution when they created two special beers: Armageddon and Maximus; as well as starting the Malthouse West Coast IPA Challenge and changed the way we thought about IPA.

Live from Beervana we bring you a session on the wide and wonderful world of lager. Martin & Michael are joined by special guests — Emma Elmslie of Shining Peak, Dani Wild from Brew Moon and Vlad Petrovic from St Leonards. We sample an eclectic range of different lagers — from a Japanese Rice Lager, to a Baltic Porter and a classic NZ-style Pilsner. Plus Martin and Michael ponder why lager become so disliked and why it's making a comeback. And on this show we're drinking a Sprig + Fern Doppelbock and Czech-style Dark Lager from Heyday.

Michael & Martin bring you the first of the live Beervana Sessions, a live Q&A recording at the Beervana Festival in Wellington on August 22-23. In this episode Pete Gillespie and Dave Bell from Garage Project talk about their Chance Luck & Magic series, including the 2021 vintage which was crowned Champion Beer at the NZ Beer Awards. Plus Matt Smith from 2025 champion brewery, Brave Brewing, talks about their flagship Tigermilk IPA. Martin and & Michael also talk about the recent closures of Fortune Favours and Hop Federation and what that means for the industry.

Michael and Martin are joined by Ben Heaven who was catapulted into national prominence when his Judas Sheep Dark Lager won a place in the New World Beer & Cider Awards Top 25. Ben runs a tiny farm-based brewery — Heaven's Brewery — in the Marua Valley, north of Whangarei. His sudden fame is backed by years of brewing both in England and New Zealand. It's a fascinating story and a must-listen for beers fans.

Martin and Michael are joined this week by Hamish Ward and Caroline Muller-Ward, the husband-and-wife team behind Isthmus Brewing. They're here to talk about the roller-coaster ride they've been on over the past couple of years since Hamish lost his brewing job at Deep Creek. After some ''dark times'' they're on a high at the moment after their 3D IPA was crowned champion beer at the New World Beer & Cider Awards. We talk a lot about that beer and how it pays homage to the classic West Coast IPAs of yesteryear.

Michael and Martin give you a run-down of Beervana, including their picks of the annual festival, held in Wellington last weekend ... which may, or may not, include an ice cream made from beer! Plus they take a look at the just announced New World Beer & Cider Awards, running through the list of the Top 25 beers and giving their recommendations on what to try first.

Ten years brewers Jason Bathgate and Andrew Childs were severely burned in a workplace accident when boiling wort exploded from a brew kettle as they were adding hops. They suffered burns to 30% and 40% of their bodies respectively. Martin chats with Jason, formerly of McLeod's and now running his own brewery, Aliment, and Andrew of Behemoth Brewing about that day and how it changed their lives.

Michael and Martin delve deep into the New Zealand Beer Awards announced last weekend in Christchurch. We run through all the trophy categories, picking out trends, analysing results and looking at some surprise results. Congratulations to Brave Brewing who took out Champion Brewery, and to Garage Project who took out Champion Beer with Chance Luck & Magic 2021.

In this episode Martin catches up with Lee-Ann Scotti and Michael O'Brien, the couple behind Oamaru's cult Belgian-inspired brewery, Craftwork. Michael and Lee-Ann talk about why they love Belgian beer, how they created their wonderful bar in Oamaru's delightful Victorian precinct, and they reflect on their first Bruxelles Oamaru festival. Michael and Martin also wrap up the Malthouse West Coast IPA Challenge, with Michael drinking the runner-up beer Zeus Skis In Jeans by Altitude Brewing in collaboration with Colorado's Westbound & Down. Martin is also drinking a collab, between Brave Brewing and Sawmill. Enjoy.

In this episode Michael and Martin talk to Ryan McArthur, festival director for Beervana, New Zealand's biggest beer festival, which is on in Wellington on August 22 & 23. Keeping a huge beer festival relevant and sustainable is no easy task but Beervana just keeps getting better and better. Plus, Ryan has some inside tips on how to make the most of your experience. The beers we review in this episode are Beervana-esque. Michael has 8 Wired's Sticky Barleywine, a lush 12% beer made with dates, plums and raisins; and Martin is drinking Hallertau's Stuntman Double IPA, rebrewed for their 20th birthday. And we spend a bit of time paying homage to Hallertau, one of the first to bring great beer to Auckland.

We head off to Hastings to visit Brave Brewing and a chat with owners Matt and Gemma Smith. We learn why they are still exclusively in bottles and discuss the power of Tigermilk, their flagship IPA. Plus, Michael and Martin share a couple of beers heavy on Riwaka hops.

Urbanaut founder Bruce Turner came back to New Zealand from England where he worked at an establishment brewery, Fuller's, and a new-wave craft brewery, Meantime. On his return to Aotearoa he wanted to brew the classic style beers he fell in love with in England, including real cask ale. Instead he's ended up brewing hazy IPAs with flavours such as Toasted Marshmallow, Raspberry Lamington and Passionfruit Cheesecake. Michael & martin met Bruce in the Urbanaut brewery and taproom to discuss how they ended up brewing such crazy beers. Plus we talk about Terpene beers, low carb beers (they have four now), the return of the Blenders and the demise of one of the original "classics" in Brixton Pale Ale.

In Episode 2 of the Third Pint Theory we talk to Three Boys founder Ralph Bungard about their status as New Zealand's reigning champion brewery from last year's NZ Beer Awards and what that meant to them. Plus we look at why they've pulled back to focus on their local area of Christchurch at the expense of bigger markets in Auckland. And finally ... is it the end of the line for their famed, multi-award-winning Oyster Stout?!

The Third Pint Theory is a podcast dedicated New Zealand craft beer — focusing on the people who brew it and the places you drink it. Hosted by Michael Donaldson and Martin Bridges. Michael is the editor of Pursuit of Hoppiness, New Zealand's only dedicated craft beer magazine, author of Beer Nation — The Art & Heart of Kiwi Beer, The Hopfather and The Big Book of Home Brew. Martin is a beer judge and consultant with his business Beer Bigwig. We bring you stories about Kiwi beer, the people who make it and the places you drink it.