Agree to Disagree About Gender

Julie Rei Goldstein is a long-transitioned trans woman and voice actress who survived attempts at conversion therapy as an adolescent, which informs her advocacy to preserve access to gender affirming care for youth today. She is also notable for her detailed journaling of the numerous lawsuits filed by detransitioners against their care providers, and provides a trans positive perspective on the state of play of these cases On today's episode, we talk to Ms. Goldstein about her childhood and transition experience, focusing on why she believes there is no real difference between exploratory therapy and conversion practices, and on the limited evidence for their effectiveness. We also discuss our concerns about how the failure to make efforts to prevent young people whose interests are not best served through affirmation and medicalization may have created the conditions that led to an increase in regretful detransitioners We then discuss some of technicalities behind why many of these lawsuits are failing, and how the legal arena may not be the best avenue to seek remedies for perceived harms, and we offer suggestions for how the medical system and society can best meet the considerable needs of detransitioners and those who otherwise came to regret their transitions.

Karleen Gribble is an Australian breastfeeding and infant-feeding researcher whose work sits at the intersection of public health, emergency preparedness, maternal-infant care, and policy. She is affiliated with Western Sydney University, where her research profile lists work on breastfeeding, infant and young child feeding in emergencies, child protection, adoption, and sex and gender identity She joins us on the podcast to discuss the increasing use of desexed language like "chestfeeding" and "people with cervixes" in health care settings, and why she believes that this is confusing and alienating to women, and may lead to meaningful harm, even while attempting to be inclusive We also discuss the importance of accurate recording of birth sex in the medical records, and if there are ways to centre the importance of birth sex in health care decision making while respecting trans people's desire for privacy and dignity.

Dr. Quentin Van Meter is a pediatric endocrinologist who gained notoriety and national prominence as head of the American College of Pediatrics, a splinter group of pediatricians who split from the mainstream American Academy of Pediatrics originally over their endorsement of same-sex parents. During the 2010s, ACPeds, under Dr. Van Meter’s leadership, were one of the initial organizations to speak out in public and in the backrooms of government to make the case against pediatric medical transition from a clinical perspective, presaging the success of the current gender critical political movement.In particular, Dr. Van Meter expressed concern about how pediatric medical transition interrupts the formative role that puberty plays not only in sexual and reproductive development, but how it is necessary for the health of nearly every organ system of the body.On our show, Dr. Van Meter, Laura, and Yvette focus less on politics, and more on the medical side. We discuss his theories on puberty, whether it is important to go through a puberty that is in alignment with one’s sex (or will any puberty do), and on the stability (or lack thereof) of childhood and adolescent gender identity.

Jennifer Lahl is an experienced pediatric critical care nurse who is the founder of the The Center for Bioethics and Culture Network, which advocates for caution and expresses concerns surrounding the use of assisted reproductive technologies including in-vitro fertilization, artificial wombs and surrogacy. She is a recognized authority, having numerous national and international media appearances, and was invited to testify before the European Parliament and the United Nations to address issues of egg and womb trafficking, She has also expressed caution regarding the ethics and technical limitations of fertility preservation in young people who are undergoing medical and surgical interventions for gender dysphoria; interventions that are high likely to result in infertility or at the very least fertility challenges in young people who have a limited capacity to understand the implications of these interventions, and whose views on having biologically related children may change over time Jennifer joins Yvette and Laura for a spirited discussion on what makes children with dysphoria different that other young people (and their families) which seek these interventions. Show Notes: Here is the link to our paper on fertility preservation Resilience Health Network survey: https://resiliencehealth.network Ms. Lahl's paper on fertility preservation: "Fertility preservation: is there a model for gender-dysphoric youth" https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/endocrinology/articles/10.3389/fendo.2025.1386716/full?utm_campaign=imp_mile_2024_fall_en_aut-ww Mama's Minerals - New Mexico's largest woman owned rock & crystal retailer https://www.mamasminerals.com/

In our 12th episode, Laura and Yvette bring on Dr. Melanie Crites Bachert (prounounced BUCK-ert), a pelvic reconstructive surgical specialist whose practice has been primarily centered on women's pelvic health, and on repairing congenital abnormalities of the kidneys and the bladder. However, in recent years, she has become more vocal about what she sees as the unacceptable high incidence of urinary and vaginal complications experienced by trans men (natal women) on testosterone, who find their way into her Oregon practice. She expressed concern about hormone prescribers not appropriately counselling their patients about the consequences of hormone therapy, and on what she believes is an abdication of responsibility in managing adverse effects associated with therapy Dr. Laura and Dr. Crites Bachert engage in some vigourous but respectful argument about the benefits of gender care, how we engage with medical uncertainty, and on the the amount of weight we put onto the pain and the consequences of living with dysphoria

In our 11th episode, Laura and Yvette are joined by pediatric bioethicist Dr. Ian Wolfe, of the University of Minnesota. Dr. Wolfe believes that young people with gender dysphoria should be able to access care to medically facilitate a gender transition, and that there is a well-established ethical framework to support it. Dr. Wolfe shares his rebuttal to common concerns raised by gender critical advocates, while also acknowledging some of the limitations and missteps in pediatric medical transition. Dr. Wolfe also discusses his critique of the HHS report and the restrictive legislation that has been justified by the conclusion of the report, and the challenges with learning clarifying information where even research into the subject is considered unethical

In their second episode, Laura and Yvette have a heartfelt conversation about their concerns about pediatric medical transition. Laura is a trans woman who believes that access to medical transition can rescue some children from the horrors of dysphoria. Yvette has grave concerns about transition being a false promise of salvation from difficult and complicated childhoods. We have created this podcast because we believe it is important for well-meaning and empathic people who have arrived at different positions on contentious issues regarding gender to be able to have open and honest dialogue, and even more important for curious and caring people to hear

In their third episode, Laura and Yvette dig deep on Little vs Hecox, and West Virginia vs BPJ, two cases that will be argued in front of the Supreme Court today. Laura is a trans woman who believes that trans women should be allowed to play on teams with their female peers under certain conditions whereas Yvette believes women's team are the domain of biologic women. We also discuss the broader implications of these cases beyond the playing field, both in terms of how sex and gender are defined under the law, and the potential that this decision could be a gateway to broader restrictions on the trans community We have created this podcast because we believe it is important for well-meaning and empathic people who have arrived at different positions on contentious issues regarding gender to be able to have open and honest dialogue, and even more important for curious and caring people to hear

In this week's episode, Laura and Yvette sit down with Dr. Alex Byrne, the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Philosophy at MIT. His most recent book is Trouble with Gender: Sex Facts, Gender Fictions. In that book, he provides a philosophical underpinning on a narrow definition of "man" and "woman", as well as justification for discarding the concept of gender. He is also one of the 9 authors of the controversial HHS Report "Treatment for Pediatric Gender Dysphoria: Review of Evidence and Best Practices", which supports the complete banning of access to medical and surgical therapies for children and adolescents with gender dysphoria, and even more contentiously recommends against any further research evaluating the potential efficacy of medical interventions. In this conversation, we discuss the challenges with applying a narrow definition of male/female and man/woman in the real world, whether this precludes treating trans people with respect, and what responsibilitis academics have when their positions are likely to be weaponized. In the second half, we shift our focus to the HHS report, talking about his hesitations with getting involved with the Trump and Kennedy-led HHS, on the secrecy surrounding the authorship, and on why he believes that further research in this area is unethical to pursue

Laura wants more data about the effectiveness of puberty blockers. Yvette has seen enough They disagree about most things, but they've agreed to talk about it In this episode, they do a comprehensive review of the recently launched UK Pathways Trial, which seeks to determine if puberty blockers have a role to play in the management of young people with gender incongruence. However, many question have been raised about its design, whether it is ethical, or whether it is even necessary. Plus stay tuned to the end for a special Easter Egg!

In Episode 6. Laura and Yvette sit down with investigative reporter Ben Ryan to hear his perspectives on pediatric gender medicine, his coverage of the 1st medical malpractice trial where a regretful detransitioner prevailed against her care team, and his sympathies towards the trans community.

In Episode 7. Laura and Yvette sit down with former Virginia National Guard Black Hawk helicopter plot, aspiring comedian, and trans infuencer Jo Ellis to discuss the impact and rationale of the US trans military ban, how conservatism shapes her approach to trans-advocacy, and on the transformative power of dick jokes

In our tenth episode, Yvette and Laura debate what responsibilities, and in what circumstances, a stealth or private trans person should be obliged to disclose their history of transition. We are joined by Dilan Esper (x.com/dilanesper), a Los Angeles based lawyer who is trans supportive, but who has challenged the trans community on its stridency in its advocacy We discuss this thorny debate in the context of San Jose State University former volleyball player Brooke Slusser, who described her experience with sharing an apartment with her teammate Blaire Fleming, who she did not realize at the time was trans. Later, co-host Laura muses on her obligations for disclosure as a physician who is often referred female patients who are looking for a woman physician

On this episode, sexologist Dr. James Morandini talks about the concept of autogynephilia, how it relates (and doesn't relate) to the drive to transition, and what we can do to help people recognize it as non-pathological human variation in sexual practice.

In this episode, Laura and Yvette welcome Jon M, an autism advocate and independent researcher who shares his experiences with living with gender dysphoria as a teenager, in whom it spontaneously and inexplicably remitted when he entered adulthood. He discusses this uncommon experience in the context of autism, and his relationship to religiosity, and provides insights on how we can better understand the natural history of dysphoria in natal males. Jon's Podcast (Christianity on the Spectrum) : https://christianityonthespectrum.podbean.com/ Jon's Substack: (Dispatches from the Autism Wars) (https://dispatchesfromtheautismwars.substack.com/ Jon's Essay on Teenage Dysphoria https://dispatchesfromtheautismwars.substack.com/p/i-had-teenage-gender-dysphoria

In this first episode, Laura and Yvette tackle one of the most contentious issues in the gender debate: Are single sex spaces for women born women only, or is there a way that trans women can be accepted. Laura shares her experiences of being welcomed and included in these spaces for the last 25 years, and why being told she no longer belongs feels like a threat to her dignity. Yvette talks about how these spaces are intended to be sanctuaries for violence, and in particular, from the men who are responsible for the overwhelming majority of violence and harassment of women. More importantly, Yvette and Laura seek to model how to talk about issues where there is a broad divide in opinion, without assuming the worst of intentions.