Outthinkers

Dr. Nadya Zhexembayeva is a globally recognised reinvention strategist, four-time author, and founder of the Reinvention Academy. A former chaired professor at a business school in the Slovenian Alps, she coined the role of Chief Reinvention Officer — unifying strategy, innovation, and change management into a single connected discipline. She has worked with organisations across mining, telecom, financial services, and the public sector, including steering a London-listed mining and metals company through the largest industry crisis in modern history. Her weekly newsletter, Reinvention Weekly, reaches business leaders across the globe.Most companies know change is accelerating — but they're still operating as if it's temporary. The assumption that things will eventually "go back to normal" is quietly killing organisations that could otherwise survive. A handful of companies have built genuine reinvention capability and are riding waves of disruption ahead of their competitors. Most are still firefighting, waiting for certainty that will never come.In this episode, we explore why the business model playbook built in the 20th century is dangerously mismatched for today's environment — and what leaders need to think, build, and kill in order to stay viable.In this episode we cover:The concept of "metaruption" — why black swan events are now arriving in flocks, and what it means for long-term strategyWhy Reinvention 1.0 (the once-every-40-years big pivot) is no longer sufficient — and what Reinvention 2.0 looks like in practiceThe three interlocking disciplines — anticipate, design, and implement — and why most organisations are weakest at the firstWhy the shelf life of your decisions is shrinking, and how to build a system that accounts for itWhere to actually start a reinvention journey — including the "kill session" practice that reduces overload before adding anything newAdditional Resources:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/nadyazhexembayevaReinvention Academy: reinventionacademy.comNewsletter: Reinvention Weekly — subscribe at reinventionacademy.comThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Peter Weinberg is the founder of Evidenza, an AI-powered synthetic research platform, and a former LinkedIn executive where he co-founded the B2B Institute. Over a decade at LinkedIn, Peter helped reframe how B2B brands think about growth — shifting the industry's focus from bottom-of-funnel conversion toward brand building, mental availability, and reaching buyers before they enter the market. His work draws heavily on the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute's frameworks, and he's collaborated with some of the world's largest B2B organisations on marketing strategy and segmentation.Most market research never gets done. It's too slow, too expensive, and the people you most need to reach — CFOs, in-house counsel, niche enterprise buyers — simply don't take surveys. So companies either skip research entirely or make decisions based on what the sales team heard from the three customers who called last week.Synthetic research changes that equation. By using AI to simulate statistically representative populations of real customer types, organisations can now get directionally accurate, quantitative customer intelligence in a fraction of the time and cost of traditional research. Peter's company, Evidenza, has validated this approach across dozens of markets and categories — consistently finding 80–95% alignment between synthetic and human survey responses.In this episode, we explore what that means for how companies understand customers, structure their innovation funnels, and rethink the long-standing political battle between marketing and sales over who really owns the voice of the customer.In this episode we cover:What synthetic research actually is — and why "lab-grown customers" may be more reliable than survey respondents clicking through for an Applebee's gift cardThe accuracy question: how closely AI-simulated responses match real human data, and what it means when they divergeHow synthetic research could reshape the innovation funnel — moving from testing 3 ideas a year to testing thousandsWhy the real opportunity isn't hyper-personalisation, but finding the mass-market commonalities that drive scaleThe adoption barrier that has nothing to do with AI scepticism: organisations that wouldn't act on good market research even if you handed it to themEpisode Timeline:00:00 — Highlight from today's episode00:34 — Introducing Peter + the topic of today's episode02:55 — If you really know me, you know that...03:45 — What's your definition of strategy?06:04 — Peter's decade at LinkedIn and the case for B2B brand building07:41 — The Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: mental and physical availability10:24 — What is synthetic research?13:16 — Accuracy, speed, and cost: the three metrics that matter14:54 — When human surveys lie (and synthetic respondents don't)17:49 — Can you use synthetic research for internal adoption challenges?19:59 — How synthetic research widens the innovation funnel23:27 — Who owns the voice of the customer: marketing vs. sales26:50 — Micro-segmentation vs. mass marketing — which does AI actually favour?30:59 — Barriers to adoption: AI sceptics, soft rejectors, and market orientation33:48 — When AI outperforms humans with AI (the doctor study)35:57 — How to follow Peter and find EvidenzaAdditional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weinbergpeter/Website: evidenza.aiThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

New on Outthinkers Podcast, supported by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff speaks with Lew Frankfort about how Coach scaled while building trust, durability, and emotional connection with customers. During the conversation they unpack what scaling really requires when growth threatens to dilute what made you successful in the first place. Lew Frankfort reflects on spotting Coach’s early cult following, why direct-to-customer channels became a strategic turning point, and how brands build trust, durability, and emotional connection at the same time while leaders balance creativity with operational discipline. The conversation covers:Why strategy is the bridge between vision and execution, and what it looks like in practice while scalingHow to build brand equity through trust, durability, and emotional connection without losing what makes the brand distinctiveHow leaders balance creativity and discipline, and what it takes to be an intrapreneur inside a larger organizationEpisode Timeline:00:00 Welcome and Sponsor00:44 Meet Lou Frankfort03:31 Family and Values06:05 Defining Strategy06:56 From Public Service09:19 Coach Cult Following12:34 Brand Equity Triangle16:20 Going Direct to Consumer19:10 Magic and Logic Leadership21:48 Becoming CEO at Coach26:17 Intrapreneur Mindset28:36 Designing for Growth32:25 Advice and ClosingAdditional Resources:Book: Bag Man (Lew Frankfort)LHH: https://www.lhh.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lew-frankfort/Thank you again to our sponsor, LHH. Thank you to our guest, Lew Frankfort. Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Joe Pine is the co-author of The Experience Economy—and one of the thinkers who gave leaders a language for why “services” weren’t the end of the story. In this episode, Joe returns with his next major thesis: we’ve entered the Transformation Economy, where the customer is no longer buying inputs (features, service hours, or even memorable moments), but paying for outcomes—lasting change.We unpack what makes a transformation fundamentally different from an experience, why experiences are increasingly commoditized, and why the biggest opportunities now sit in helping people (and organizations) become who they want to become. Joe also shares the practical implications: how leaders can ladder up from “jobs to be done” into deeper aspirations, why identity change sits at the center of transformation, and how pricing shifts when your business is accountable for outcomes.In this episode we cover:•Why transformations are “sustained through time,” not just memorable moments•The idea that all transformation is identity change (and what that means for strategy)•“You are what you charge for”: shifting from time-based pricing to outcome-based pricing•Why the Transformation Economy is already here (and why it’s accelerating now)•The four spheres of transformation—and why they all point toward human flourishing00:00 — Welcome + Episode Setup 01:36 — “If you really know me…” (Anti-social introvert)03:10 — Strategy = the decisions you actually make04:18 — Defining “Transformation” (guiding outcomes that last)06:06 — Experience vs Transformation (customer becomes the product)08:28 — Why the Transformation Economy is already here10:00 — Why now: experiences are commoditizing (Starbucks + COVID shift)13:16 — Identity change at the center of transformation17:46 — From “cobbling” to integrated transformation programs (GLP-1 / Calibrate)21:54 — Pricing in the Transformation Economy (outcomes + human flourishing)34:22 — Where to start + resources (encapsulation, purpose, Substack/toolkit)Additional Resources:Joe Pine’s Transformation Economy Substack: https://transformationsbook.substack.com/Strategic Horizons: https://strategichorizons.com/Strategic Horizons “Integration” page + Transformation Toolkit: https://strategichorizons.com/integrationJoe Pine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

In a recent Outthinkers episode sponsored by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff is joined by Linda Hill (Havard Business School) and Jason Wild (WISE) to discuss what it takes to move innovation beyond isolated efforts and into something that can work across an entire organization They explore how strategy is shifting, from control to adaptability, what's actually driving advantage in 2026, and why progress depends on more than just advancing technology. The conversation covers:•⁠  ⁠Why ecosystems, not individual teams, are becoming the unit of innovation•⁠  ⁠The role leaders play as architects, bridgers, and catalysts—and what breaks when those roles are missing•⁠  ⁠Why culture is often the difference between ideas that scale and those that don'tEpisode timeline:00:00 — Cold open: why no company can go it alone00:30 — Sponsor: LHH02:00 — “If you really know me…” (Linda + Jason)03:35 — Definitions of strategy (optionality, choices, and adaptability)08:40 — Why they wrote Genius at Scale12:30 — Why ecosystems are rising (speed, capability gaps, AI)17:00 — Can incumbents adopt an ecosystem approach?22:30 — ABC framework: Architect, Bridger, Catalyst28:40 — The most underappreciated role: the Bridger33:30 — Why bridging is a career risk (and how to fix incentives)41:45 — A practical tool: a “constraints dashboard” + radical transparency45:30 — Where leaders should start54:50 — How to keep learning from Linda + Jason59:20 — Closing + thanksAdditional Resources:Linda Hill: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linda-hill-hbs/Jason Wild: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonwild/Book: Genius at Scale — https://geniusatscale.com/Sponsor: LHH Executive Solutions — https://www.lhh.comThank you to our sponsor, LHHThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Neil Hoyne is Chief Strategist at Google and one of the sharpest voices on how companies actually make decisions when data, intuition, and organizational politics collide. He works at the intersection of strategy, analytics, and customer value, helping leaders think more clearly about what metrics mean, how to use them, and where they can quietly mislead. He is also the author of Converted and is currently working on a new book exploring how strategy frameworks can be applied to careers and life decisions.Most leaders say they want to be data-driven. But in practice, many organizations still use data to confirm what they already believe, delay hard choices, or create the appearance of rigor without real clarity. At the same time, teams are drowning in more information than ever, while AI is making data gathering and analysis faster, cheaper, and easier to commoditize. The harder challenge now is not collecting data — it’s creating the conditions for better decisions.In this episode, we explore how strategy should be defined in an uncertain world, why customer-centric thinking changes the role of marketing, and how leaders can avoid mistaking metrics for truth. Neil also unpacks customer lifetime value (CLV), the hidden ways metrics get manipulated, and why many companies ask the wrong question when they say they want more data. We also discuss what strategists should focus on as AI changes the work, and why the future advantage may come from decision frameworks, not dashboards.In this episode we cover:•Neil’s practical definition of strategy: using resources to stay alive today while improving your position for tomorrow•Two definitions of marketing — product-centric vs customer-centric — and how the marketer’s role changes in each•What CLV actually is, why it matters, and how short time horizons distort strategic choices•Why common metrics (like conversions and engagement) often aren’t comparable across platforms•The two questions leaders should ask about every KPI: how it’s calculated and how it could be manipulated•Why smart leaders still ignore data, and how human psychology shapes decision-making•How to define “how much data is enough” before a decision•What chief strategy officers can do beyond the annual planning ritual•Why AI strategy should start with your company’s core strategy — not the other way aroundChapters:00:01 — Intro + Neil Hoyne03:10 — The “Last Supper” question08:10 — Misreading people’s career stories10:10 — Strategy definition16:40 — What marketing is21:05 — Customer-centric thinking24:10 — CLV basics30:10 — Why metrics mislead35:10 — How teams game KPIs39:20 — Why leaders ignore data52:00 — How much data is enough?1:01:20 — Risk, speed, and decisions1:07:20 — What strategy leaders should do1:18:10 — New book on careers1:25:10 — AI noise vs core strategy1:30:20 — ClosingAdditional Resources:•Neil Hoyne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilhoyne/•Neil Hoyne website: https://neilhoyne.com/•Converted (Neil Hoyne’s book): https://www.converted.us/•Intro (booking 1:1 time; proceeds to charity): https://intro.co/ (search Neil Hoyne on Intro)Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

John Fallon is the former CEO of Pearson, where he led one of the most challenging digital transformations of any publicly traded company—shifting a legacy publishing giant from selling ~20 million US college textbooks per year to a subscription-driven, digital platform business. This episode was recorded live at LHH’s Executive Exchange Conference in London, and John joins us to share hard-won leadership lessons from the front lines of disruption.For years we’ve been told only nimble startups survive disruption. But that story misses a quieter truth: most of the Fortune 500 was founded long before the internet—and many incumbents have adapted through multiple platform shifts. In his new book, Resurgent, John (with Julian Birkinshaw of London Business School) makes a contrarian case: established organizations can fight back—and even thrive—if they get clear on their enduring value, redesign for transformation, and lead change like the human “contact sport” it is.In this conversation, John breaks down why disruption often unfolds over decades (not months), how to separate a temporary headwind from a structural shift, and why identifying your company’s true “job to be done” matters more than clinging to any one product. He also shares practical leadership tools for navigating politics, building alignment, empowering middle managers, and sustaining people through prolonged upheaval.What you’ll learn in this episode•Why incumbents are often more resilient than we assume—and what the data says•How to spot the difference between “secular vs structural” change (and why timing is so hard)•The “job to be done” lens: how Pearson moved from textbooks to learning outcomes•Why digital transformation is less about tech and more about people, culture, and organizational design•How to reduce “the meeting after the meeting” and create real disagree-and-commit executionEpisode Timeline00:00 Welcome to Outthinkers + Live Special Episode Setup01:22 Why Incumbents Can Win: Pearson’s Transformation & the Book ‘Resurgent’05:30 Elephants Can Dance: Fortune 500 Resilience and the Myth of Instant Disruption09:10 Pearson’s Textbook Collapse: Secular vs Structural (and Recency Bias)11:33 From Textbooks to ‘Job to Be Done’: Purpose, Pricing, and the Access Model13:45 Crisis Clarifies Identity: Cancer, Core Value, and Avoiding ‘Netflix of X’ Thinking16:56 Making Purpose Real in Transformation: Profit, Restructuring, and Middle Managers as Shock Absorbers21:23 Why Digital Transformation Gets Political: Twin-Speed Orgs, Uncertain Disruption, and Staying ‘Busy Being Born’24:42 Why AI Transformation Is a Human Problem (Linear vs Exponential Change)26:05 CEO Time: Thinking Space, Contrarian Views & “Disagree and Commit”28:14 Avoiding the “Meeting After the Meeting”: How to Build Real Alignment30:17 Audience Q: Leading with Humility—Saying “I Don’t Know” & Showing Humanity34:08 Should You Take the CEO Job? Confidence, Humility, and Resilience Reserves36:49 Beyond the Burning Platform: Replatforming, Timing, and Centralize vs Decentralize41:18 CEO Sounding Boards: CFO/CHRO Partnerships, Board Support, and Staying Grounded43:35 Culture vs Strategy: The “False Dichotomy” and Building a Learning Organization45:47 Wrap-Up, Thanks, and SubscribeAdditional Resources•Resurgent (book): https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/resurgent-9781399422000/John Fallon on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/johnfallonpearsonThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Dr. Brent Ridge is the co-founder of Beekman 1802, a skin health brand that began with goat milk soap made at a dining room table and scaled into a nationally recognized business with a devoted community. Brent trained in medicine (geriatrics), built his career in New York City, and even helped launch Martha Stewart’s Healthy Living division—before a recession, a rundown farm, and a herd of goats rewrote his path. He’s also the co-author of G.O.A.T. Wisdom, a new book that distills Beekman’s hard-won lessons into practical principles for entrepreneurs who want to build something that lasts.In this conversation, you’ll learn how to spot real trends before they’re named, build a brand identity customers can feel in seconds, and turn a purpose like kindness into a measurable operating system—not just marketing.In this episode we cover:Why “the true measure of authenticity is longevity” (and how brands lose trust chasing viral moments)The Beekman origin story: layoffs, a farm, goats—and turning constraints into a strategy advantageA simple but powerful strategic question: “Where does this not exist?” (and how it opened the luxury door)Trend sensing without getting trapped by algorithms: building your own daily “signal system”How defining your company as “skin health” (not “beauty”) changes everything—from product to positioningTurning kindness into culture, community, and commercial momentum (inside the company and out)00:00 Introduction to Out Thinkers Podcast00:30 Defining Authenticity in Business01:23 Meet Dr. Brent Ridge: From Medicine to Entrepreneurship02:01 The Birth of Beekman 180202:36 Building a Brand with Kindness04:56 Early Life and Career of Dr. Brent Ridge07:02 Strategic Moves: From Medicine to Martha Stewart08:26 Launching the Martha Stewart Center for Living18:08 The Power of Personal Branding and Sales21:22 Navigating Trends and Building Legacy25:01 Seeing Trends in Unlikely Places26:30 The Birth of Beekman 180228:26 The Science Behind Goat Milk30:32 Rebranding as a Skin Health Company31:35 The Power of Brand Identity37:57 Building a Culture of Kindness40:43 The Kindness Ecosystem48:22 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsAdditional ResourcesBook: G.O.A.T. Wisdom (Brent Ridge)Beekman 1802: https://beekman1802.com/Brent Ridge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-ridge-md-0641791/Kindness Research Foundation: https://www.kindness.orgThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Jana Werner is a global executive advisor and Executive in Residence at Amazon Web Services, where she works with Fortune 500 leadership teams on organizational transformation and enterprise strategy. She holds a PhD in uncertainty dynamics in projects and has contributed to academic research and teaching at institutions including Oxford and the London School of Economics.Phil Le-Brun spent 31 years at McDonald’s, serving as International CIO and leading technology delivery across more than 120 countries. He is now an Executive in Residence at AWS, serving as an enterprise strategist and evangelist, with advanced degrees in systems thinking.Together, they are the authors of The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation.Most large companies still operate like machines. Rigid hierarchies, tight controls, and permission-based decision making may deliver predictability, but they quietly kill ownership, learning, and innovation.By contrast, the most adaptive organizations operate more like living systems, distributing intelligence, empowering teams, and enabling continuous transformation. Companies like Amazon demonstrate how decentralization, clarity, and ownership can create alignment rather than chaos.This episode explores how leaders can replace command-and-control structures with environments where innovation becomes everyone’s job.In this episode we coverWhy the “organization as a machine” model is breaking downThe Octopus Organization metaphor and distributed intelligence in actionHow clarity and context enable decentralized decision-makingOwnership vs permission and the pigs-and-chickens lessonWhy real innovation must be embedded across every layer of the organizationHow curiosity and intelligent failure drive continuous transformationEpisode Timeline00:00 Highlight and introduction to the Octopus Organization02:00 Guest introductions and background04:30 If you really know me… personal stories from Jana and Phil07:40 Defining strategy as choice and what not to do10:00 Tin Man vs Octopus organizations13:30 How decentralization increases alignment16:00 Ownership, permission, and single-threaded leadership20:00 Amazon leadership principles and disagree-and-commit22:30 Creating organizational clarity at scale26:00 Focus, subtraction, and the mountaineering story28:30 Durable needs and strategy at Amazon30:30 Complicated vs complex systems in transformation33:00 Curiosity, experimentation, and intelligent failure36:00 The monkey-on-a-pedestal lesson38:00 Centralized vs decentralized innovation41:00 Lighting a thousand fires and continuous transformation44:00 Why this model outperforms traditional change programs45:30 Where to learn more and connect with the authorsAdditional ResourcesBook: The Octopus OrganizationWebsite: https://www.theoctopusorganization.comJana Werner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janawerner1/Phil LeBrun LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillebrun/Watch now on Youtube: https://youtu.be/qcD2GmX5uUIThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Mark Thompson is a CEO coach and author of CEO Ready. Born and raised in Silicon Valley and now working across emerging tech hubs, Mark prepares leaders for the leap from elite operator to enterprise chief. He’s worked with CEOs ranging from Richard Branson and Evan Sharp (co-founder of Pinterest) to Dr. Jim Yong Kim (former president of the World Bank) and Dave Chang (founder of Momofuku).Most executives assume the CEO seat is the natural “next step” for the highest performer. But Mark argues you earn readiness twice: first by delivering results, and then by winning belief outside your swim lane. In other words, performance gets you shortlisted—but it doesn’t get you selected.In this episode, Mark lays out the seven stakeholders who decide your fate as a CEO candidate (the board, investors/owners, peers, employees, customers, the current CEO, and you). We talk about what each group actually wants, how to build trust across the enterprise, and why the best CEO candidates develop “conversational fluency” across functions so they can lead beyond their lane.In this episode we cover:•Why “elite performance” only gets you halfway to CEO—and what earns belief the second time•The seven stakeholders who decide CEO readiness (and how to build a plan for each one)•How to show up to the board as more than a functional expert•Turning peers into partners (before the role forces the shift)•Building fluency across functions so you can lead the whole enterprise—not just your functionEpisode Timeline:00:00 Introduction to Outthinkers Podcast01:23 Meet Mark Thompson: CEO Coach and Author02:06 The Seven Stakeholders of CEO Success02:42 Mark's Unique Coaching Methods04:10 Personal Insights and Strategy Definition06:30 The Reality of Becoming a CEO08:58 Navigating Board Dynamics20:57 Interacting with the Board: Key Strategies for Aspiring CEOs21:28 Listening and Broadening Your Perspective22:44 Understanding the Role of Strategy Officers26:36 Navigating Peer Dynamics and Leadership Transition33:03 Building Relationships with the CEO35:44 Engaging with Investors and Owners39:56 The Importance of Customer Influence44:17 Final Thoughts and Resources for Aspiring CEOsAdditional Resources:•Mark Thompson: Chief Executive Alliance — https://chieexecutivealliance.comWatch now on Youtube: https://youtu.be/wuh4Rn7erxUThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Bill George is one of the most influential leadership thinkers of our time. A former CEO of Medtronic and long-time Harvard Business School professor, he’s served on the boards of Goldman Sachs, ExxonMobil, Novartis, and the Mayo Clinic. His books including True North and True North: Emerging Leader Edition—have shaped how thousands of leaders approach purpose, values, and character.When performance pressure rises, it’s easy for leaders to drift from their values chasing quarterly metrics, external validation, and “style” over substance. Bill argues the opposite: sustainable performance springs from purpose, self-awareness, and a culture people believe in. We explore how to stay grounded as expectations, visibility, and success scale.You’ll learn how authentic leaders make the hard calls without becoming “nice at the expense of necessary,” choose metrics that drive meaning (not gaming), and build teams that keep you honest, learning, and aligned.In this episode we cover:•Authentic leadership: what it is and isn’t•Purpose-first strategy•The Medtronic metric: measuring outcomes people feel, not just inputs•Making tough people & portfolio decisions without losing your values•Building your leadership circle for honest feedback & growth•Short-term vs. long-term: preventing KPI gaming and hollow winsEpisode Timeline00:00 Introduction to Outthinkers Podcast00:35 Bill George on Medtronic's Impact01:40 Bill George's Leadership Journey05:00 Defining Strategy and Purpose10:32 Authentic Leadership Explained12:45 Challenges and Examples of Leadership16:04 Personal Growth and Leadership20:53 Developing Self-Awareness as a Leader22:15 Facing Crucibles: Overcoming Tough Times23:47 Exercises for Self-Discovery25:33 The Power of Small Groups27:32 Long-Standing Support Systems29:28 Assessing Leadership Values33:01 Effective Metrics for Leadership39:56 Engaging with Bill GeorgeAdditional Resources•Bill George — Website: https://www.billgeorge.org•LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/williamwgeorge/•Book: True North: Emerging Leader Edition•Book: True North•Kaihan Krippendorff: https://www.outthinker.comThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Meet Jon Levy — behavioral scientist and author of Team Intelligence: How Brilliant Leaders Unlock Collective Genius and the NYT/WSJ bestseller You’re Invited. Jon has spent years studying human behavior and leadership mechanics, advising companies on how to build teams that actually perform—beyond leadership myths and buzzwords.We often hire “A-players,” roll out values, and assume great leadership traits will carry us. Then reality hits: strategy doesn’t execute itself—teams do. Jon explains why the smallest unit of performance is the team, why stacking stars backfires, and how culture and language shape what people actually do. If you’re trying to align leaders who don’t buy the data, this one’s for you.You’ll learn how to engineer collective intelligence—the practical habits, roles, and rituals that raise a team’s game, how to recruit and empower “glue players,” and how to make strategy felt when spreadsheets won’t persuade.In this episode we cover:Culture as operating system: the sayings, status cues, and rituals that drive behavior (Apple’s “surprise and delight,” LEGO’s “fireside”).Bursty communication: why teams should “work together, then work apart” to boost problem-solving.Glue players: high-EQ, team-first multipliers (and why too many stars tank performance).Make the implicit explicit: roles, skills, and “player cards” that speed decisions.Trust, not traits: honesty, competence, benevolence—and dealing with the dark tetrad at work.When data won’t convince: crafting a narrative that makes people feel the better future.Episode Timeline00:00 Introduction 00:36 Coming Up...01:47 Unpacking Team Intelligence with John Levy02:47 Insights on Leadership and Team Dynamics05:13 The Role of Culture in Organizations13:49 The Impact of Language on Behavior16:54 The Concept of Glue Players18:14 The Key to Predicting Success in Basketball19:02 Characteristics of Glue Players21:25 The Importance of Team Dynamics23:49 The Antwerp Diamond Heist: A Lesson in Teamwork27:52 Making Implicit Knowledge Explicit29:36 The Dark Side of Team Dynamics31:29 Understanding Trust in Teams34:06 The Role of Emotion in Strategy35:02 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsAdditional ResourcesJon Levy — Website: https://www.jonlevy.comBook: https://www.jonlevy.com/team-intelligenceLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonlevytlbThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Christina Farr is an investor, startup advisor, and former health-tech journalist. She’s the author of The Storyteller’s Advantage: How Powerful Narratives Make Businesses Thrive and the creator of the Second Opinion newsletter, where she decodes healthcare and technology for leaders.Most leaders try to move markets with features, roadmaps, and metrics. But the winners often move them with narrative—stories that rally investors, customers, and teams to build the future with them. Christina unpacks how great storytellers create belief that becomes momentum.You’ll learn a simple framework to make your strategy legible and compelling, how to pick the right plot for your message, and practical ways to craft origin stories, pitch decks, and CEO communications that persuade.In this episode we cover:The SOAP framework: Surprise, Openness, Authenticity, PathosSeven classic plots for business (from David vs. Goliath to Rebirth) and when to use eachCase studies: PillPack vs. incumbents; Apple’s comeback; Microsoft’s reinvention; WeWork’s cautionary taleFundraising and sales: decks that move capital and customersLeading in tense moments: speaking to charged issues without fracturing cultureEpisode Timeline:00:00 – Highlight from today’s episode01:05 – Introducing Christina + the power of narrative in business03:05 – “If you really know me…”04:20 – What is strategy? Story as prognostication07:10 – Why story beats data alone in pitches, sales, and retention10:55 – The SOAP framework (Surprise, Openness, Authenticity, Pathos)18:40 – Engineering surprise; calibrating vulnerability22:00 – Seven plots leaders can borrow (with modern brand examples)28:45 – Case study: PillPack’s David vs. Goliath playbook32:40 – Rebirths and tragedies: Apple, Microsoft, WeWork36:10 – Origin stories that travel (and ones that don’t)38:10 – CEO comms on divisive topics, without breaking culture39:20 – Where to learn more from ChristinaAdditional Resources:Book: The Storyteller’s Advantage — Christina Farr (Basic Venture) -https://basic-venture.com/titles/christina-farr/the-storytellers-advantage/9781541704299/Newsletter: Second Opinion - https://secondopinion.media/Christina Farr on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinafarr/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

In this special in-person conversation recorded at Adobe’s global headquarters, host Kaihan Krippendorff sits down with Malte Bernholz, Vice President of Strategy and Incubation at Adobe.Malte brings a unique lens, combining years of experience in consulting and technology leadership, to unpack what might be the most significant technological shift of our lifetime. Together, Kaihan and Malte explore:The macro forces and creative trends redefining industries in the age of AIWhy this moment rivals—and perhaps surpasses—the dot-com boom in its impactHow AI is both lowering the floor of creativity, making it easier for anyone to create, and raising the ceiling, expanding what’s possible for professionalsHow personalization at scale is transforming customer experiencesAnd what this means for the future of brands, creativity, and human originalityIt’s a conversation about courage, imagination, and leadership at the edge of technological change.And for the first time, you can watch this conversation as well as listen—check out the video version on Outthinker.com or YouTube.Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Mark Crowley is a longtime financial services leader who led consistently top-performing teams over a 25-year career. He’s the author of Lead From the Heart and the newly released The Power of Employee Well-being, a frequent contributor to Fast Company, and host of the Lead From the Heart podcast. In 2013, Mark was the first to publicize Gallup’s finding that only 30% of U.S. employees were engaged—helping ignite a decade-long debate about what truly drives performance.In this conversation, we explore why feelings and emotions—not dashboards—drive behavior, how the heart–brain connection shapes decisions at work, and why belonging outperforms “boss quality” as a predictor of retention. Mark connects lived leadership to research—from Oxford’s wellbeing–productivity link to HeartMath’s work on coherence—and shows how caring (not coddling) creates the conditions for sustained results.Whether you lead a business unit, a project team, or a transformation office, this episode will reframe how you raise performance by raising wellbeing—with specific, near-term moves any leader can make this week.In this episode we cover:Why traditional engagement efforts flatline—and why wellbeing is the more powerful lever for performanceThe Oxford evidence: how self-reported wellbeing maps directly to productivity in real workBelonging > boss quality as a driver of retention—and how leaders actually build itCaring vs. being nice: creating psychological and emotional safety without lowering the barA practical definition of strategy: know where you’re going, plan with rigor, pivot fast when reality disagreesEpisode Timeline:00:00 – Introduction01:10 – Guest introduction and the case for feelings over dashboards03:05 – “If you really know me…” and how Mark learned to lead from the heart06:45 – Managing differently: proof from 25 years of top-performing teams09:30 – Mark’s definition of strategy: plan hard, pivot faster12:20 – Why wellbeing (not satisfaction) sets the stage for peak performance15:10 – What wellbeing actually is—and why managers determine most of it18:05 – Up to 95% of behavior is emotion-driven: implications for leaders20:30 – Engagement stalled; the Oxford call-center study on wellbeing → productivity25:40 – Caring vs. nice; HeartMath and the science of coherence31:00 – Selecting and developing leaders who elevate others (not just individual stars)36:10 – Belonging as the #1 driver of retention—and how to create it39:20 – Where to start: know yourself, clarify values, design team-first systems42:15 – Reward the team first (then individuals) to eliminate zero-sum competition44:10 – How to keep learning from Mark + closeAdditional Resources:Website: https://markccrowley.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markccrowleyBooks: Lead From the Heart; The Power of Employee WellbeingPodcast: Lead From the HeartThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Eddie Fishman is a senior research scholar at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy, adjunct professor of International & Public Affairs, and author of Choke Points: How the Global Economy Became a Weapon of War. A former U.S. State Department strategist, he served on the Secretary of State’s Policy Planning Staff and Foreign Affairs Policy Board, and led Russia/Europe sanctions policy—bringing a rare, in-the-room perspective to how economic power really works.In this conversation, we trace how “choke points”—where one nation dominates and substitutes are scarce—have turned minerals, microchips, and money flows into the quiet weapons of great-power rivalry. Eddie unpacks the geo-economic “impossible trinity”—why you can’t maximize interdependence, economic security, and geopolitical calm all at once—and what that trade-off means for leaders making bets on AI, batteries, and supply chains.Whether you’re steering strategy, procurement, or policy, this episode will change how you spot fragile dependencies, anticipate where pressure will build next, and engage policymakers before the rules harden around you.In this episode we cover:Why a true “choke point” = dominance plus low substitutability The geo-economic impossible trinity and its implications for business strategyWhere the next choke points may emerge: AI compute, batteries/EVs, and the energy transitionThe firm’s role: don’t just adapt to policy—shape it (how to engage upstream, practically)Industrial policy realities: U.S. moves on rare earths and semis—benefits, risks, and tolerance for failureEpisode Timeline:00:00 – Cold open: rare earths and leverage02:00 – Guest introduction and Eddie’s background05:45 - Strategy as “winning tomorrow,” not just today07:02 - Defining choke points (dominance + substitution)11:20 - The “impossible trinity” explained with historical arcs27:05 - Should firms adapt or shape policy?30:05 - Emerging choke points: AI chips, batteries, EVs38:05 - U.S. industrial policy (MP Materials, Intel) and what comes nextAdditional Resources:Book: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/726149/chokepoints-by-edward-fishman/X (Twitter): https://x.com/edwardfishman?lang=enLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edward-fishmanThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Today we’re welcoming back our first-ever guest on the Outthinker Podcast, Scott Anthony—Senior Lecturer at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business and one of the world’s leading voices on innovation and transformation. Formerly a senior partner at Innosight, the consultancy founded by Clayton Christensen, Scott has spent decades helping global organizations navigate disruption, build strategic resilience, and create new engines of growth. He’s also the author of eight acclaimed books, including The First Mile, Dual Transformation, and his newest work, Epic Disruptions: 11 Innovations That Shaped Our Modern World.In this discussion, we uncover how disruption has driven human progress for centuries—long before the dawn of Silicon Valley. From the cannon fire that toppled ancient empires to the printing press that democratized knowledge, Scott shows that the forces behind disruption are anything but new. Through stories spanning from gunpowder to generative AI, he reveals how these enduring patterns continue to reshape industries, technologies, and societies today.Listeners will walk away with a richer understanding of how to spot and harness disruption rather than fear it. Scott explains how leaders can use history as a practical playbook—learning to make bold, informed decisions in fast‑changing environments. Whether you’re scaling a business or steering an enterprise through transformation, this is a conversation about seeing beyond the moment to shape what comes next.In this episode we cover:What Clayton Christensen really meant by “disruptive innovation”Why the term is so often misused—and how to tell sustaining vs disruptive innovation apartThe “ghosts” that haunt incumbents: past trauma, rigid habits, and identity fears that block changeWhat leaders can learn from the printing press, steel mini mills, and the iPhoneHow to use history as a lens for seeing disruption before it strikesEpisode Timeline:00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode 01:10 — Introducing Scott Anthony and today’s topic 04:00 — From consulting to academia: finding no “safe spaces” in the era of AI 09:00 — Defining strategy: “a set of choices to achieve a designed aim” 10:00 — Setting the record straight on Clayton Christensen’s theory 16:30 — Bethlehem Steel, emotional ghosts, and leadership through disruption 21:00 — From gunpowder to AI: how patterns keep repeating 25:00 — The printing press and the unintended consequences of innovation 30:00 — The hero’s journey of innovation—from Julia Child to Steve Jobs 37:00 — Spotting modern disruptors: AI, robotics, and additive manufacturing 41:00 — Where to learn more from Scott AnthonyAdditional Resources:Book Website: https://www.epicdisruptions.com Scott Anthony’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdanthony/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Adam Brotman is the former Chief Digital Officer of Starbucks and Co-CEO of J.Crew, and co‑author of the e‑book AI‑First: The Playbook for a Future‑Proof Business and Brand. At Starbucks, he helped create one of the most admired digital customer experiences in the world and was named Chief Digital Officer of the Year. Today, as co‑founder of Forum3, Adam helps executives navigate the next era of business transformation—one where AI is no longer optional, but foundational.Over the past two years, Adam has interviewed some of the most influential voices shaping artificial intelligence—Bill Gates, Sam Altman, Reid Hoffman, and Ethan Mollick, among others. Through those conversations, he’s uncovered what separates companies that simply experiment with AI from those that truly transform.In this episode, we unpack what it really means to become an AI‑first leader—someone who doesn’t need to code or build models, but who develops the instinct and conviction to guide their teams into this new frontier.In this episode we cover:What it means to be an AI‑first CEO and why it starts with an authentic “aha moment.”Bill Gates’ perspective on AI as a tool for qualitative uplift, not just productivity.The idea of the “middle era” of AI—why it feels messy, and how visionary leaders navigate it.Lessons from Starbucks’ shift from digital‑first to AI‑first thinking.Why the real ROI of AI lies in better decisions, faster, across every function.Episode Timeline: 00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode 01:15 — Introducing Adam + today’s topic 02:30 — The AI‑first mindset: where transformation really begins 06:00 — Bill Gates on why AI is bigger than any past tech shift 10:00 — Quantitative vs. qualitative productivity 12:00 — Inside “the middle era” of AI 16:00 — Defining the AI‑first company and leader 25:00 — Beyond ROI: reframing AI’s value 28:00 — Research insights: why AI improves decision quality 31:00 — From skepticism to the CEO’s “aha” moment 33:00 — What’s next after the middle era 38:00 — Closing reflections + how to keep learning from AdamAdditional Resources: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adambrotman Book & Company: https://www.forum3.com/ai-first-bookThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Our guest today is Julia Austin—former senior leader at Akamai, VMware, and DigitalOcean, with decades of experience helping organizations make the leap from startup to scale. She’s also studied and guided countless founders as a professor at Harvard Business School. Julia now distills those lessons in her new book, After the Idea: What It Really Takes to Create and Scale a Startup.In this conversation you’ll discover what separates ventures that thrive from those that stall. Every company begins with a spark, but too often innovators fall in love with ideas, overbuild too soon, or underestimate the hard realities of scaling and culture. Julia draws from experience spanning tech giants and countless startups to reveal how leaders can move from inspiration to momentum—and sustain innovation even as complexity grows.You’ll learn practical frameworks and stories for transforming early insights into long-term impact. Whether you’re a founder, strategist, or innovator inside an established business, this conversation offers tools for approaching discovery, scaling, and culture design.In this episode we cover:Four types of scrappy experiments every innovator should run: ethnographic, “be the bot,” Wizard of Oz, and low fidelity prototypesHow to know if there’s really a there there in your marketBalancing beachheads and total addressable markets while keeping unit economics in checkBuilding competitive advantages through team, domain expertise, and partnershipsHow to design org structures and cultures that reward experimentation and embrace productive failureEpisode Timeline:00:00 — Highlight from today’s episode 01:18 — Introducing Julia Austin and today’s topic 04:45 — “If you really know me…” Julia’s art background 06:30 — Julia’s definition of strategy as a “living, breathing map” 09:15 — Lessons from Akamai and VMware on scaling from startup to global enterprise 14:50 — The importance of discovery: why slowing down helps you go faster 21:05 — Four types of experiments: ethnographic, be the bot, Wizard of Oz, low fidelity 33:40 — Testing markets: TAM, beachheads, and unit economics 42:20 — Building competitive advantage beyond the idea 49:15 — Designing cultures that keep innovation alive at scale 55:45 — Why celebrating failure fuels long-term breakthroughs 01:02:10 — Julia’s book After the Idea and how to connect with herAdditional Resources:Book Website: https://www.aftertheideabook.com/ Julia Austin's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliaaustinThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Martin Reeves is Chairman of the BCG Henderson Institute and author of The Imagination Machine and his newest book, Like: The Button That Changed the World. A prolific strategist and researcher, Martin is known for uncovering practical lessons from unexpected places and helping leaders rethink innovation for the real world.In this conversation, we trace the surprising story of the “like” button—how a few lines of JavaScript, cultural quirks, and serendipitous accidents reshaped business models, advertising, and even human behavior. Martin reveals why most groundbreaking ideas don’t emerge from lone geniuses, but from messy communities, chance encounters, and recombinations of old ideas into something new.Whether you’re leading innovation at scale or just curious about the unintended consequences of technology, this episode will change how you think about creativity, feedback, and the ripple effects of small decisions.In this episode we cover:Why the “like” button is the ultimate case study in serendipitous innovationHow social signals scale beyond social media into CX, commerce, and B2B servicesThe role of culture, language, and naming in shaping adoption and meaningWhy second-order effects of innovation often matter more than first-order onesA practical lens for spotting and leveraging serendipity inside organizationsEpisode Timeline: 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – Guest Introduction 03:45 – Toaster Projects and Innovation06:13 - Origins of the Like Button08:25 - Cultural History of the Thumbs Up Gesture14:31 - Multiple Inventors and Facebook's Role34:27 - Inside the Code: How Likes Work36:11 - Future Implications of Like TechnologyAdditional Resources:Book Website: LikeBook.orgMartin’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martin-reevesBook: Like: The Button That Changed the WorldThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Kurt Miscinski is the co-founder, CEO, and President of Cerity Partners, one of the fastest-growing firms in the wealth management space. Today, Cerity manages over $130 billion in client assets—but it started with a different vision: to create the first truly global, enduring professional services firm in wealth, drawing inspiration from firms like McKinsey and Deloitte, but applying it in a field that historically hasn’t operated that way.  In this conversation, Kurt shares how that vision came to life—not through consolidation, but through a partnership ethos and a language shift that reframed everything from equity to culture. This is a story of architecture: how to build a firm that scales without losing its soul, and how to align incentives, ownership, and strategy to fuel long-term value. In this episode, we discuss: How Kurt went from being a CPA and Deutsche Bank executive to founder of a firm redefining wealth advisory Why Cerity’s operating model borrows more from McKinsey than Morgan Stanley—and how that unlocks scale The strategic philosophy behind reinvesting 100% of profits and how it shaped the firm’s culture of ownership How they use mergers to create a better firm, not just a bigger one—and why that distinction matters The role of language in shaping culture, from avoiding the word “employee” to framing every merger as a partnership Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:55—Introducing Kurt + the topic of today’s episode02:42—If you really know me, you know that...05:30—What's your definition of strategy?06:19—Creating Cerity—the founding story08:57—Deutsche Bank and McKinsey as inspirations for a services-based business model16:33—How has Cerity created a culture of partnership within the firm?26:34—What is Cerity's model for capital allocation?30:21—Where does the strategy office sit within the organization?33:33—What are some of the principles that form your competitive differentiators?37:03—How do you balance and maintain the coordination of the various services offered, as your clients evolve and grow?41:03—What is your process for reevaluating and expanding your client services?45:08—Closing______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtmiscinskiCerity website: https://ceritypartners.com/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

This special episode of Outthinkers was recorded in front of a live audience in NYC and made possible by our friends at LHH, a global leader in HR advisory and talent solutions, trusted by executives around the world to navigate change and lead with confidence. With deep expertise in executive search, leadership development, workforce transformation, and career transition, LHH empowers organizations and their leaders to thrive in an ever-evolving business landscape. Our guest is none other than Oscar Munoz—former CEO and Chairman of United Airlines, who guided the airline through one of the most significant turnarounds in corporate history. He’s also the author of the acclaimed memoir Turnaround Time, which offers a behind-the-scenes look at the human side of executive leadership. In this candid conversation, Oscar shares deeply personal lessons on leading through crisis, building trust from the ground up, and the enduring power of authenticity. Whether you're leading your organization through change or navigating a career transition, this conversation offers wisdom and inspiration for every step of the journey. Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. He is also co-host of the podcast The Intuitive Customer, and author of a book by the same name. He has consulted on branding with companies like Walmart, FedEx, Home Depot, Caterpillar, ConAgra, Cigna, Visa, and Ipsos, among others.  To start a successful brand, you usually need to focus in on a specific, often niche, customer. But to grow the brand, you need to expand your customer base. A few brands have done this well (e.g., Starbucks or Apple) which have this loyal passionate base of fans that stick with them as the brands become ubiquitous. But, more often, brands fail to scale because the new customer they need in order to scale are too different from those core customers. They have different values or needs or beliefs. In this episode, we dive into this dilemma, discussing how to predict, preempt, and manage the conflicts that will arise between a brand’s initial customers and the more varied customer segments it must attract in order to scale.  In this episode we cover: This concept of “CSRM”—customer segment relationship management”  Examples of companies who have managed the growth dilemma well and those that have not—and what insights we can draw A practical framework outlining the four types of customer relationship scenarios you may be facing, and what strategies to deploy for each one How brands must be intentional about the type of value they offerEpisode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:14—Introducing Ryan + the topic of today’s episode03:44—If you really know me, you know that...05:12—What's your definition of strategy?05:52—The basis for Ryan's second book, The Growth Dilemma08:34—Breaking down an "identity of culture," within a brand11:07—Have brands moved from functional to identity-based culture?15:30—The concept of CSRM: Customer Segment Relationships Management (and the 2 x 2 matrix)25:25—Breaking down the different types of customer segment conflicts38:07—How do you know when you need to "fire" a customer segment?41:19—How do the principles talked about in this episode apply to the employee segments?43:30—How does the age of hyper-customization affect customer relationship management?46:02—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321/Book website: https://www.growthdilemmabook.com/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Gina O’Connor is a professor at Babson College, where she teaches on the topics of Corporate Entrepreneurship and Breakthrough Innovation in large mature companies. Previously, she had a long career at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.  Gina has co-authored three award-winning books on Breakthrough Innovation and published numerous papers in leading journals including Sloan Management Review, Harvard Business Review, RTM and Journal of Product Innovation Management, among others.  Her mission is to help large established companies learn how to renew themselves through organic growth via game-changing, strategic innovation. She is a firm believer that to be successful, organizations must develop an innovation function, complete with its own people, processes, metrics and culture that operates within the company to translate emerging science, technology and business models into  new platforms of growth that will fuel the company’s future health in spite of itself. In this discussion, we fashion our conversation by following her fascinating journey through three distinct phases of studies over years of research—the foundation of her books—that evolved as her research revealed new findings. Our conversation covers more than we can summarize in this short introduction, but among these insights we discuss: What her team’s research discovered are the constraints to innovation—and they’re more often beyond just technical, contrary to what many think The three distinct competencies of innovation—discovery, incubation, and scaling—that businesses must develop, each with different people, processes, and metrics The concept of “domains of innovation intent,”—untapped new markets in which a company can explore and potentially unlock a wide portfolio of opportunities The key learnings leaders should take away from her team’s extensive studies to tackle an often-overlooked component of innovation: talent management Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:14—Introducing Gina + the topic of today’s episode03:36—A quick summation of Gina's three books—and the research phases within each one10:59—The second phase of research and book: capabilities18:10—A case study that led to discovering "domains of innovation intent"20:26—The third phase of research and book: talent management24:07—Flipping failures into a portfolio of opportunities27:10—Ecosystems as a byproduct of innovation32:27—How are the concepts of an agile workforce and upskilling interrelated?36:25—What does a leader need to think about to successfully lead these changes?40:15—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gina-o-connor-047b862/Link to booksThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Robert E. Siegel is a lecturer in Management at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, where he has taught various courses ranging from Systems Leadership to Financial Management for Entrepreneurs to The Industrialist’s Dilemma to Corporations, Finance and Governance in the Global Economy. He is also a Venture Partner at Piva Capital and a General Partner at XSeed Capital, and sits on multiple Boards of Directors and has led investments in Zooz, Cirrosecure, and Lex Machina, among others. His multi-lens background and approach have afforded Robert a deep, intricate understanding into leadership in our constantly in flux world today, and how it requires an ever-more nuanced approach.  In this discussion, we dive into key insights from his most recent 2025 book, The Systems Leader: Mastering the Cross Pressures that Make or Break Today’s Companies, a perfect complement to his first book, The Brains and Brawn Company. We discuss the constant web of dualities that the modern systems leader confronts on an ongoing basis, as well as: How while our business frameworks have long been trending towards change-driven  frameworks with terms like “ambidextrous organization” and “exploitation vs. exploration,” world parameters have grown increasingly complex, requiring a different set of leadership skills The key characteristics of a systems leader, including the 5 cross-pressures that these leaders must learn to balance to be effective.  The four abilities that leaders must develop, including developing a product manager mindset—the ability to live at the intersection of customer needs, market demands, and the inner workings of your company  Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:30—Introducing Robert + the topic of today’s episode05:32—If you really know me, you know that...07:48—What is your definition of strategy?08:44—An overview of Robert's first book, The Brains and Brawn Company15:30—What are some key questions in your toolkit to become better at self-diagnostics17:50—Can you explain your quote: "leadership is ability to restrain in response to a certain stimulus"?21:30—Can you define a systems leader for us?23:42—What can we learn from the product manager's mindset?25:35—Can you give us an overview of the 5 cross-pressures leaders face?29:28—How is the landscape of investors changing under these pressures?32:25—The effect of AI on the workforce, and the role of leaders37:45—What is your advice to someone looking to shape strategy in light of these cross-pressures?40:39—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertesiegel/Link to website: https://www.robertesiegel.com/the-systems-leaderThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

In this episode, we are joined by Brendan Rosseau and Matthew Weinzierl co-authors of Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier. This episode is a journey, metaphorically speaking, into the beyond: outer space itself. Matthew is a Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School, and the Senior Associate Dean and Chair of the MBA program, where his award-winning research and teaching focus on economic policy and the business of space. He is the founder of the Economics of Space project at HBS and serves as an adviser on space to government agencies, companies, and investors. Brendan is a recognized leader in the space industry. He works in strategy at Blue Origin (the space company wholly owned by Jeff Bezos). He previously served as a teaching fellow and research associate at Harvard Business School and as a consultant to the U.S. Space Force. He is dedicated to using space technologies to bring about a more prosperous, peaceful, equitable and exciting future. In this episode, we explore the boundaries, and intersection, of fundamental laws of economics within the context of the rapidly developing space industry or market. We also glean insights on how other markets have and will evolve: the automobile industry, ecommerce, precision farming and potentially the economies around AI or blockchain. If we understand these underlying economic forces, we can more accurately anticipate when and how such new markets will emerge and, in the case of space, it may be coming much sooner than most of us outside of the space industry think. In this episode, we discuss: How the space industry and space technology have the potential to—and will—disrupt many business industries as we know them today The fascinating evolution of NASA as a government-funded R&D entity to a private sector ‘market creator’ acting as a “customer among many customers” so they can pave the way for space innovation The fundamental economic laws that govern how the space industry will evolve—and how markets here on earth will evolve as well The near-term financial opportunities you may not be thinking of that are providing a kind of economic bridge from private sector actors (who need near-term profit) and long-term players (like the government or large corporations who have the funding to pursue the opportunities offered by the moon and Mars) How the rapid formation of a space industry will directly impact companies in nearly every sector, even those with no obvious connection to space Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:28—Introducing Matthew and Brendan + the topic of today’s episode05:37—If you really know me, you know that...07:03—What is your definition of strategy?09:14—What are near-term opportunities the space industry will open?12:15—Some use cases of revenue opportunities from space17:39—Introducing the Evergreen '7 Ps'19:40—How has the role of NASA changed over time?29:26—What are things that need to be in place to realize the market of space?32:14—The governing laws of space 37:32—How will competition of the space markets unfold?40:17—What movies or books "get it right"Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Dave Whorton is a tech investor and founder who spent 20 years of his career at the highest levels of Silicon Valley venture capital and tech startups. At the preeminent tech venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, he worked directly with John Doerr for several years. He cofounded four companies, including drugstore.com and Good Technology.  This episode is longer than our usual shorter format—and with good reason. It's about companies that last longer. We dive deep into the world of evergreen businesses—those built to adapt and grow profitably for 100 years and more. Think of these as the direct juxtaposition to venture capital-funded enterprises—where those are built with the sole intention of selling, going public or shutting down if not performing, evergreen businesses are built to endure.  In 2013, Dave founded Tugboat Institute to connect, support, and inspire purpose-driven leaders of these businesses, and this upcoming May 2025, Dave, with Bo Burlingham, releases Another Way: Building Companies that Last...and Last...and Last. In this episode, we uncover some of the most profound insights from his book, so many of which fly in the face of current, common, dogmas around innovation and entrepreneurship, including: Why the companies VCs most often tout today as exemplars of greatness (Google, Microsoft) took very little VC funding—and why you should probably avoid VC investors as well The fact that the size of venture capital market has exploded multifold since 1999 and what that means for nature of how businesses are built and operate today The “Evergreen 7Ps” that characterize these companies, and specific case studies and examples of companies that live these values. Two of my favorites:  They pace their growth—and avoid hyperscaling They pursue pragmatic innovation, rather than radical breakthrough innovation __________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:02—Introducing Dave + the topic of today’s episode03:19—If you really know me, you know that...06:23—What is your definition of strategy?09:00—Explaining the evolution of venture capital in the past 50 years 12:02—The pitfalls of taking venture capital 17:39—Introducing the Evergreen '7 Ps'24:12—How to know if a business' pace of growth is healthy 26:50—People as a critical part of your strategy 33:58—Pragmatic innovation in evergreen businesses38:53—What public companies could adopt from the 7 Ps to behave more like evergreen businesses45:00—How can people can keep learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davewhorton/Link to book: https://www.tugboatinstitute.com/anotherway/The Tugboat Institute: https://www.tugboatinstitute.com/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Cindy Anderson is the Chief Marketing Officer/Global Lead for Engagement & Eminence at the IBM Institute for Business Value (IBV). Cindy has co-authored research reports, published numerous articles, and delivered presentations on thought leadership, diversity, strategy implementation, project management, and technology to global audiences.  She is a founding board member of the Global Thought Leadership Institute at APQC, a new association that advances the practice of thought leadership, and as you heard in the highlight clip, she is passionate about helping organizations quantify the tangible benefits and critical role of thought leadership. In this episode we dive into her just-published book The ROI of Thought Leadership: Calculating the Value that Sets Organizations Apart, which she co-authored with Anthony Marshall. As you know, almost every guest we have on this podcast is a thought-leader in some form and in this episode we get to actually explore the topic of thought-leadership itself.  In this episode we discuss the role of thought leadership, and its interrelation to an organization's various branches through highlights from her book The ROI of Thought Leadership.In this episode, Cindy shares: How thought leadership is in fact, quantifiable, and what her organization’s research reveals are the top metrics that indicate the value delivered  How organizations can leverage thought leadership to grow their brand’s authority and credibility—and what to avoid in damaging it The types of content you can deliver in thought leadership, with pointed markers of what makes good content (as well as what formats are in or out among content consumers) The role of GenAI within thought leadership—and why it cannot (and to a degree must not) be taken as thought leadership itself __________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:14—Introducing Cindy + the topic of today’s episode03:55—If you really know me, you know that...06:05—What is your definition of strategy?07:20—Quantifying thought leadership  11:30—Three core metrics for evaluating thought leadership  13:40—Thought leadership’s role in reaching ecosystems and partners 15:40—Placement of thought leadership in organizations  19:01—Key aspects of good content  21:18—Independence and trust as critical success levers 24:05—The enduring value of PowerPoint, books, and print for executives 26:55—The role of AI in thought leadership33:05—Content portfolio for thought leadership  36:45—Individual vs. organizational thought leadership 39:35—Key takeaway on thought leadership’s value ______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/clwanderson48Link to book: Thought LeadershipThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Faisal Hoque is recognized as one of the world’s leading management thinkers and technologists. He is an award-winning entrepreneur and innovator, and a #1 Wall Street Journal bestselling author with close to thirty years of cross-industry success.  Faisal is the founder of SHADOKA, NextChapter, along with a host of other companies, and serves as a transformation and innovation partner for CACI, an $8 billion company focused on U.S. national security.  Along with his extensive successful career in technology and innovation, and with ten previous bestselling books under his belt, his newest book, Transcend: Unlocking Humanity in the Age of AI, dives into the philosophical and far-reaching implications of the evolution of AI alongside humanity. In this episode, we discuss: The metaphorical evolution of AI from being another technological tool to becoming a strategic partner—working alongside humankind as an extension to it Faisal’s complementary OPEN and CARE frameworks, which work in tandem to provide clear guidelines for how to both adopt and harness AI The pitfalls to watch out for, and risks we may encounter as AI becomes even more integrated into society than it is today—as well as how to mitigate these and approach the future with proper guardrails in place _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:21—Introducing Faisal + the topic of today’s episode04:03—If you really know me, you know that...05:36—What is your definition of strategy?06:37—Purpose as an authentic calling creating value   08:15—Creating vs. discovering purpose  09:37—The myth of top-down strategy 11:32—On the book 'Transcend'  15:26—Evolving metaphors for AI  16:50—Humanity's reaction to AI 20:04—The OPEN/CARE framework  26:08—Creating a human future    28:35—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: faisalhoque.com LinkedIn: faisalhoque X: faisal_hoqueLink to book: Transcend: Unlocking Humanity in the Age of AIThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

JoAnn Garbin is a sustainability and technology innovator with a 25-year track record of leading teams “from nothing to something to scale,” creating numerous innovative products and profitable businesses. Her career predates the concept of climate change, and her long career in sustainability combined with her tenure at Microsoft as Director of Innovation in Microsoft’s cloud business, have given her ample insight, into how innovation can and should be a repeatable scalable process. In this episode, we discuss highlights from The Insider’s Guide to Innovation at Microsoft, a book co-written between Joann and Dean Carignan, who among his long and rich career has spent 20 years at Microsoft, guiding new businesses—including the early internet division, Xbox, and multiple AI efforts—through the critical growth phases to their first billion dollars in revenue. More than just insights and case studies into how Microsoft has woven innovation into the fabric of their ecosystem, Joann shares with us a proven framework to innovation.  In this podcast, we discuss:How innovation cycles mirror nature’s adaptative processes—constantly regenerating from the ashes, much like companies must continually innovate to curtail disruption A breakdown of the four innovation patterns that each provide specific tools and strategies for effective innovation How innovation is—contrary to common belief—beyond technology, able to happen through business models, customer experience, and non-tech-oriented areas Some fascinating insider examples of how Microsoft learned critical lessons through successes and failures in various products lines—like the Xbox, Bing, and more_______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:28—Introducing JoAnn+ the topic of today’s episode03:35—If you really know me, you know that...05:12—What is your definition of strategy?07:01—Why the book isn’t just about Microsoft  09:10—The four patterns of innovation  10:31—JoAnn's background in sustainability 13:01—The meaning of regenerative sustainability?  13:50—Is having a bold goal necessary for innovation16:13—Pattern I: Innovating every day means 17:52—How to innovate every day in practice20:35—Pattern II: Innovating over the years  23:55—Pattern III: Innovating with everyone 26:54—An example of innovating with everyone  29:05—Enabling boundary crossers to connect  32:04—Pattern IV: Innovating beyond technology  33:38—Going against conventional wisdom  36:22—Defining BXT (business experience technology)37:50—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: www.joanngarbin.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joanngarbinLink to book: The Insider’s Guide to Innovation at MicrosoftThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

 Peter Compo is the author of The Emergent Approach to Strategy: Adaptive Design & Execution. Unlike many strategists from universities and consulting firms, Compo builds his groundbreaking work first as a musician and a scientist (he holds a doctorate in Chemical Engineering), and then gained experience in the “corporate trenches” at DuPont. Hired as a research scientist, he held leadership positions in product, marketing, supply chain, and business management where he served as the Director of DuPont Ventures, focusing on new business ventures, and later as the Director of Corporate Integrated Business Planning, where he was responsible for overseeing the company's strategic planning processes. His varied background and passions inspired his unique perspective that business—particularly business strategy—often mirrors science and music, inspiring him to write The Emergent Approach. Peter’s mission is to create a new level of clarity on strategy by debunking the idea that strategy is cascading and top-down. Instead, his concept of “emergent” strategy proposes that strategic planning is agile, constantly transforming as new information and situations present themselves.In this podcast, we discuss:How strategy, similarly to evolution and scientific breakthroughs, isn’t just selecting what works, but rather a series of discarding what doesn’t work  How execution isn't just about following a list and getting good results — but rather adhering to a strategy until new information proves the hypothesis or framework is wrongHow leaders can help facilitate and guide strategic direction across teams and functions without putting too many constraints that hinder performance A preview of techniques and tools from his book that leaders can apply to jumpstart the emergent approach in defining your strategy_______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:23—Introducing Peter + the topic of today’s episode04:30—If you really know me, you know that...06:20—What is your definition of strategy?07:44—Can two organizations with the same goals have different strategies? 08:51—The meaning of "Emergent" 09:40—How did your background in music and science lead you to strategy? 13:22—Peter's musical background 14:25—Strategy mirroring music: structure precedes improvisation 17:24—Strategy is more than just goals and execution 18:26—Trade-offs between departments require strategic guidance  23:05—Strategy helps resolve conflicts between business functions  27:22—Lessons from sports: the role of strategy in team coordination 31:32—Strategic adaptation and innovation 33:37—Entrepreneurs and scientists share an obsession with solving bottlenecks  35:34—Strategy should focus on internalization  38:24—Five disqualifiers to test if you really have a strategy 42:35—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?__________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: https://emergentapproach.com/LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/petercompo/Link to book: Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

 Antonio Nieto-Rodriguez is author of Powered by Projects, Leading Organizations in the Transformation Age, the Harvard Business Review Project Management Handbook, the featured HBR article The Project Economy Has Arrived, as well as five other books. Antonio coined the concept "the Project Economy," on which his book is based. His research and global impact have been recognized and included in the top 50 most influential management thought leaders by Thinkers50. He is the fellow and Former Chairman of the Project Management Institute, currently VP of the APM Association, he is the creator of the Brightline Initiative, founder of Projects&Co, and co-founder of the Strategy Implementation Institute. Antonio is a prominent advocate of the idea that our business model paradigms are quickly changing—the future of work is the Project Economy, the idea that instead of companies based on hierarchy and operations, they will be dominated by project-driven teams and environments. This premise has a profound impact on every area of a business—and strategy, management and every department of each enterprise will need to adapt accordingly.In this episode we discuss: How digitalization and the acceleration of AI has compounded this quick change from a focus on operations and repetitive work to quick execution, project-driven teams How by 2030, 70% of work will be project-based work, fundamentally changing how businesses are structured and managed. How the era of hierarchal org structure hinders growth in this new era, as successful project execution depends on co-creation and stakeholder buy-in How the role of the PMO will change from being operations-driven to more strategic, and how you can best support these roles in the transition _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:31—Introducing Antonio + the topic of today’s episode04:14—If you really know me, you know that...05:03—What is your definition of strategy?06:12—The difference between strategy and execution 07:40—Understanding the project economy 10:43—The shift from operations to projects in organizations 12:18—The cross-functional nature of projects 14:44—The future of the PMO office 17:20—Creating intensity in organizations 20:36—Common mistakes leaders make in executing strategy24:06—Motivation for writing "Powered by projects"  26:36—Key insights from Antonio’s leadership sessions  28:30—How can people follow you and continue learning from you? ______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: antonionietorodriguez.comLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/antonionietorodriguezLink to book: Powered by ProjectsThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Devin DeCiantis is the co-author, with Ivan Lansberg, of the 2024 book THE ENDURING ENTERPRISE: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Condition. He is a Managing Partner at Lansberg Gersick Advisors (LGA), an advisory and educational partner trusted by many of the world’s largest family enterprises. Devin’s work and focus is on the financial, organizational, and strategic aspects of this business structure—the family enterprise. Devin brings his background in corporate strategy, economic analysis and investment banking to his work with these family businesses, family offices and family foundations.  Several unique attributes family businesses set them apart from the various corporate forms, public or private, corporations or LLCs or partnership. Many of these differences build a natural immunity and competitive advantage of sorts that traditional corporations struggle to build.  In this episode, we discuss some the key findings in his book, including:  What enduring lessons family businesses can teach regular corporations about planning for not just quarters, but quarter-centuries The unique advantages—and weaknesses—of family businesses, whose longevity often span decades, or even centuries The unique role family businesses play in economies, especially in markets like South Asia, East Asia, and Latin America The 7 stabilizing strategies that these businesses employ effectively, as they often are built amidst emerging and frontier economies where basic infrastructure and resources are often lacking _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode 01:31—Introducing Devin + the topic of today’s episode 03:29—If you really know me, you know that... 04:20—What is your definition of strategy? 06:30—Historical context of family owned businesses 08:55—Examples of major family owned businesses 10:58—What motivated Devin to study family businesses 13:08—Family owned businesses in more volatile environments 16:06—7 stabilizing strategies family owned businesses consistently deploy 17:51—Differentiation strategy 20:31—Resilience in family-owned enterprises 23:08—Modularity as core driver of growth and stability 26:33—How family owned businesses benefit from modularity 29:26—How non-family-owned organizations can leverage modularity  31:24—Strategic redundancy in family owned businesses 33:44—How can people follow you and continue learning from you? _______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devindeciantisLink to book: THE ENDURING ENTERPRISEThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Sandra Matz is the David W. Zalaznick Associate Professor of Business at Columbia Business School, in New York, where she also serves as the Director of the Center for Advanced Technology and Human Performance. As a computational social scientist with a background in psychology and computer science, Sandra studies human behavior and preferences using a combination of big data analytics and traditional experimental methods. Her research, and the topic of this podcast, uncovers the hidden relationships between our digital lives and our psychology with the goal of helping businesses and individuals make better and more ethical decisions.  We dive into some fascinating insights from her January 2025 book, MINDMASTERS: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior, exploring the concept she coined of “psychological targeting,” a discipline that reveals how our digital footprints expose intimate aspects of our psychology and can be used to shape decisions—from what we buy to how we vote.In this podcast, we delve into this topic, discussing: How digital technologies and AI are giving us unprecedented abilities to understand and target specific people in specific statesThe profound implications, for better or worse, of this capabilitySome exciting—and concerning—examples of what this might look like, from diagnosing mental health to crafting highly-personalized automated marketing campaigns How this hyper-personalization and new AI has the potential to influence, change and even control our behaviors What companies can learn from Apple’s “Evil Steve” test in designing products and experiences to safeguard future ethical misuse of data  A glimpse into what could be a solution to the ethical dilemma of the capabilities Sandra studies: federated learning—a new form of data modeling that protects the individual’s data while delivering high-quality insights _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:26—Introducing Sandra+ the topic of today’s episode03:48—If you really know me, you know that...04:26—What is your definition of strategy?05:10—The two steps of psychological targeting 06:05—What has changed in how psychological targeting is implemented?  08:41—How can we differentiate extroverts from introverts?  10:09—The manners in which psychological targeting can be intrusive 10:55—Replicating old-school communication online  12:30—Dynamic personality states 15:52—What are 'good' applications of psychological targeting?  18:19—How organizations can ensure they use psychological targeting ethically 20:40—Safe ways to collect data without compromising individual privacy 23:05—Can psychological targeting influence internal company behavior?  25:42—How companies can align themselves with diverse individual identities 26:48—What skills and capabilities should organizations develop to adapt to AI-driven personalization? 26:26—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: sandramatz.com Link to book: MINDMASTERSThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Ethan Mollick, is the Ralph J. Roberts Distinguished Faculty Scholar and Associate Professor at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, where he studies the effects of artificial intelligence on work, entrepreneurship, and education. His academic research has been published in leading journals, and his work on AI is widely applied, leading him to be named one of TIME Magazine’s Most Influential People in Artificial Intelligence. Ethan also writes to a wider audience about AI, including in his book, Co-Intelligence, a New York Times bestseller. In addition to his research and teaching, Ethan is the Co-Director of the Generative AI Labs at Wharton, which build prototypes and conduct research to discover how AI can help humans thrive while mitigating risks. Prior to his time in academia, Ethan co-founded a startup company, and he advises numerous organizations. He received his PhD and MBA from MIT’s Sloan School of Management and his bachelor’s degree from Harvard University.  In this episode, we discuss:What people get wrong when people think about how AI will shape the workforce. What he calls the 'Centaur versus Cyborg' approach—the misconception that work must be divided between humans and AI, rather than completed in unison.What preliminary studies, in the past few years between organizations like BCG, Harvard, and MIT, have to tell us about how AI powers human productivity and work itself. What history teaches us about adopting new technologies like AI to maintain a competitive edge. _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:07—Introducing Ethan+ the topic of today’s episode03:04—If you really know me, you know that...03:24—Ethan's background and journey into AI 04:53—What is your definition of strategy? 06:20—Common misconceptions about AI's impact on the workforce  07:46—AI's capabilities compared to humans, particularly in creativity  10:03—The best way to use AI for idea generation 10:37—AI's role in the different stages of strategy development  13:12—The BCG study on AI's impact on consulting work Bring Us Together13:58—The concept of Agentive AI14:48—Lessons from past general purpose technology adoptions 16:33— The need for organizational redesign in the age of AI 19:18—The impact of AI on profit distribution across industries 20:40—AI's role in identifying market needs and finding solutions 22:38—The importance of experimentation with AI 24:50—Addressing the issue of AI's unexplainable solutions   _______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Link to book: Co-Intelligence Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/emollickSubstack: @oneusefulthingX: emollickThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Andrew Hill, is senior business writer at the Financial Times and consulting editor, Financial Times Live. He is author of Ruskinland (2019), about the enduring influence of Victorian thinker John Ruskin and Leadership in the Headlines, a collection of Andrew’s his columns. We were quite lucky to be able to corral Andrew to have a conversation with us, and I'd be remiss not to preface this podcast by pointing out that rather than our typical format of diving into one author's ideas, framework and thinking around business trends, in this episode, we get a chance to glean insights multiple books and from his experiencing curating the best business books of the year for the Financial Times. In this episode, we journey through this year's FT and Schroders Business Book of the Year 2024, getting an "insider look" into the year’s roundup. We also get to explore how the best business book lists has evolved over the years and what this means for the present and future of business.  Andrew’s long tenure made for an interesting conversation into more niche topics, leading even to what John Ruskin—a Victorian Polymath from the 1800s—would have thought of particular trends highlighted in this collection of books in the modern era.  In this podcast, we discuss: Has the purpose of the coporation changed? Should we move beyond being purely profit-motivated? Whether the relentless pursuit of economic growth is sustainable or even desirable, given environmental and social constraints Could tribalism, which is often seen as divisive, be a force for collaboration and innovation and unity? How the increase in human longevity may require us to rethink life stages and adopt a 'multi-stage life' model, blending careers, education, and leisure throughout a lifetime Andrew's own journey at the Financial Times, and how the Best Business Books list was established and has evolved over time. _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:26—Introducing Andrew + the topic of today’s episode03:45—If you really know me, you know that...05:31—What is your definition of strategy? 06:52—History and purpose of the FT Business Book of the Year Awards  08:16— Criteria and process for selecting the books  11:36— Comparing 2024 submissions with previous years and emerging trends  16:20— Discussion of The Corporation in the Twenty-First Century  17:58— Navigating the ESG debate and long-term thinking  21:41—Discussion of Tribal: How the Cultural Instincts That Divide Us Can Help Bring Us Together 24:32—  Andrew Hill highlights Andrew Scott's insights into living and thriving in a longer lifespan 27:48— Discussion of Growth: A Reckoning  31:02— Connecting the themes and a reflection on John Ruskin's perspective   _______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Link to book: Ruskinland Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/andrewtghill X: https://x.com/andrewtghillThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Dr. Marcus Collins is an award-winning marketer and cultural translator, the former chief strategy officer at Wieden+Kennedy, New York, and a marketing professor at the Ross School of Business, University of Michigan. Marcus knows how to build an enthusiastic culture around brands and products  and services. He ran digital strategy for the pop star Beyoncé, worked on iTunes + Nike sports music initiatives at Apple, including Beats by Dr. Dre. He is an inductee into the American Advertising Federation’s Advertising Hall of Achievement and a recipient of the Thinkers50 Radar Distinguished Achievement Award for the idea most likely to shape the future of business management. His strategies and creative contributions have led to the launch and success of McDonald’s cultural resurgence, Google’s “Real Tone” technology, and the “Made In America” music festival. Marcus’ work centers squarely that linkage between brand and culture. In this podcast, we dive deep into highlights from his best-selling book, For The Culture: The Power Behind What We Buy, What We Do, and Who We Want to Be.  We discuss: The impact of culture on consumption, and how businesses can leverage this to influence behaviors How people align behaviors with self-identity—making ideological alignment a key factor in brand adoption (think Apple, Nike) Some key tactics—such as targeting fringe groups to create network effects that impact behaviors organically—to reach more audiences The role that beliefs, artifacts, language, and behaviors play in shaping culture _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:49—Introducing Marcus + the topic of today’s episode03:45—What's the definition of culture? 05:00—How and why do brands like Nike use culture as a tool for their customer base 08:23—The three systems that define culture 12:58—How organizations can successfully build internal cultural identity 16:31—Creating an inclusive identity 20:11—Leveraging network effects and cultural production 23:32—Finding early adopters for cultural diffusion 25:05—Brand loyalty vs. transactional relationships 27:35—Building a cultural movement and avoiding the targeting trap 30:31—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: www.marctothec.com Link to book: For The Culture Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/marctothec X: marctothecThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

JP Pawliw-Fry, is world-renowned keynote speaker and New York Times bestselling author, also coaches Navy Seals, professional athletes and their coaches on high performance. As the founder of IHHP and an expert in culture, leadership, and emotional intelligence, JP has helped some of the most successful Fortune 100 companies unlock their potential by fostering courageous, high-performing cultures. JPs research has led him to help organizations cultivate high-performing cultures by enabling employees to overcome fear and feel valued, have a voice, and feel safe to take risks and be courageous. Based on his insights from his book, Performing Under Pressure, we discuss the intersection of culture with individual psychology to create high-performing cultures. In this episode, JP shares: How pressure—and specifically cortisol—affects our perception, and why the idea that we work better under pressure...is a fallacy  His  theory of the 8% gap—how humans are programmed to perform well in 92% of cases, and then switch into “avoid or make a mess” mode when we get to the last 8% How you as a leader and organization can enable people operate in that 8% Why the right unit of measure of culture is not your organization or even your business unit, but your team (and the implications of this are for culture change)A interesting model for assessing culture  _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode00:58—Introducing JP+ the topic of today’s episode02:53—If you really know me, you know that...03:35—Defining strategy and the role of culture05:52—Teaching as a catalyst for deeper learning and personal growth08:12—How team culture is forged: the role of pressure and cortisol  10:33—Understanding the last 8 percent 14:34—Bridging the gap between intent and action 17:46—The 8 percent culture map19:58—Risk-taking and its connection to innovation and performance 22:30—Debunking myths about pressure and performance 26:15—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: www.jppawliw-fry.com Link to book: Performing Under Pressure Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jppawliwfryThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Oscar Munoz, is the former CEO and Chairman of United Airlines. Oscar has led an accomplished career, spanning senior financial positions at Coca-Cola, Pepsico, AT&T, and US West. He also served as President and COO of North American rail-based transportation giant CSX Corp. He is also an independent trustee for Fidelity and a CNBC Contributor. A first-generation college graduate with degrees from the University of Southern California and Pepperdine, he was twice honored by Hispanic Business Magazine as one of its ‘100 Most Influential Hispanics’, honoring his journey as an immigrant who is the first person of Hispanic heritage to run a U.S. airline.  In this conversation, we get to glean Oscar’s incredible insights from his Wall Street Journal best-selling memoir, Turnaround Time: Uniting an Airline and its Employees in the Friendly Skies. Having joined United, he had quite a task ahead of him, uniting the very fragmented workforce the airline faced at the time.  At the core of this immense turnaround was Oscar’s steadfast belief, that employees are as important as customers and shareholders in ensuring a business succeeds. In this podcast we discuss: His journey throughout his career that brought him to United, and the insightful takeaways on leadership he gleaned along the way  His human-first approach in taking over the reins, which put each and every employee at the core of United transformation The Core4 policy that emphasizes each employee operate by the four pillars of safe, caring, dependable and efficient, emphasizing the human part of customer service over business objectives _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode01:14—Introducing Oscar+ the topic of today’s episode04:45—If you really know me, you know that...05:52— How Oscar's core values were shaped 07:32—What is your definition of strategy13:11—Oscar gives insights into how he became CEO of United19:22— Oscar steps into the CEO role 24:12— Economic factors shaping airline strategy 26:58—The Core4 policy as a strategy for growth 35:12— Bottom-up leadership: building a company from the employee level  38:10—How can people follow you and continue learning from you? _______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: oscar-munoz.com Link to book: Turnaround Time Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/oscarmunozua Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscarmunoz Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

David Edelman is a Harvard Business School Fellow and Executive Advisor at BCG. David spent over 30 years as a chief marketing officer at Aetna/CVS, as well as building consultancy businesses in digital and marketing transformation while with McKinsey, Digitas, and BCG. He now teaches marketing at Harvard Business School and serves as an advisor to top executives in startups, private equity, and larger enterprises.  In this discussion, we dive into David’s book, Personalized: Customer Strategy in the Age of AI, coauthored with Mark Abraham, which helps executives learn how to put personalization at the center of their strategy, accelerate growth, and capture their share of the value personalization creates. In this episode, he shares: How personalization has radically shifted in the past decades to create unique value for customers, going beyond just marketing. How data and AI play a pivotal role in this shift, governed by ecosystems where companies collaborate to deliver solutions rather than just products The five promises businesses should focus on to seize the personalization advantage: empower me, know me, reach me, show me, and delight me How to measure your solutions’ effectiveness with a custom Personalization index tool  _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:00—Introducing David+ the topic of today’s episode3:20—If you really know me, you know that...4:25—What is your definition of strategy05:05—The true meaning of personalization 06:55—A surprising experience in personalization 10:04—Technological advances enabling personalization 13:10—Ecosystem-based personalized solutions17:40—The five promises of personalization 21:25—Starting with empowerment before data collection  23:34—The sequential implementation of personalization 26:41—Measuring personalization effectiveness with a personalization index  30:06—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: www.edelmanadvisoryservices.comLink to book: Personalized: Customer Strategy in the Age of AILinkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/daveedelmanThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Rebecca Homkes, is a high-growth strategy expert and CEO and executive advisor. She is a Lecturer at London Business School, Faculty at Duke Corporate Executive Education, Advisor and Faculty at the Boston Consulting Group focused on AI and Digital Transformation and a former fellow at the London School of Economics Centre for Economic Performance.   A global keynote speaker and recognized thought leader, she is also the global Faculty Director of the Active Learning Program with the Young Presidents Organization (YPO), leads several fintech accelerators, and serves on the boards of many high-growth companies.   Rebecca's multifaceted roles give us a uniquely wide and deep perspective on how companies grow. Her work challenges us to realize that the mechanical, linear paradigm of strategy making that has dominated the field for the last 60-odd years cannot deliver sustained growth in volatility of today’s rapidly-changing world. She shares an alternative approach in her 2024 book Survive, Reset, Thrive: Leading Breakthrough Growth Strategy in Volatile Times.In this conversation, we dive into some of her powerful techniques around arming your company with the right mindset for the right time, and building a company that can learn and adapt through change. In this podcast, Rebecca shares: An insightful and concise overview of her "survive, reset, thrive" frameworkWhy we should think of growth is loop not a line How to embed continuous learning loops in which you test, gaining insights, implement and share, and the iterating for improvement What uncertainty represents a great time to grow—and how to seize this opportunity _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:06—Introducing Rebecca + the topic of today’s episode3:23—If you really know me, you know that...4:32—What is your definition of strategy05:10—The "survive, reset, thrive" framework 8:30—The learning loop vs. linear thinking 10:20—Parrel paths: strategy and executing12:59— Beliefs and critical assumptions in strategy 17:28—Addressing AI uncertainty in strategy 19:23—Balancing waiting and acting in strategy  20:48—Identify your learning loops 22:51—Learning velocity as a growth differentiator 24:41—The dynamics of survive, reset, and thrive modes 28:05—The three elements of thriving organizations 29:15—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: www.rebeccahomkes.comLink to book: Survive, Reset, ThriveLinkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-homkes/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

William Duggan is lecturer of strategy and innovation at Columbia Business School, and the author of four books on innovation: Strategic Intuition: The Creative Spark in Human Achievement (2007); Creative Strategy: A Guide for Innovation (2012); and The Seventh Sense: How Flashes of Insight Change Your Life (2015), and his most recent work: Corporate Innovator: A Guide Through the Labyrinth, published in 2024.In his book, Bill covers employee-driven innovation. Bill dives deep into a dilemma he found resurfacing time and again in his research from interviews he conducted: the seemingly never-ending maze that corporate employees face in trying to bring their ideas to reality. Here we cover insights from his into how employees can navigate “the corporate labyrinth,” and how employers can lower the obstacles they (usually unwittingly) put in the path of would-be internal innovators. In this podcast, he shares: An explanation in neurological—yet easy to understand terms—of the way in which our minds come up with new ideas The way in which organizations often create endless obstacles to people innovating within their roles—hence his apt metaphor of the labyrinth Practical techniques for how individuals can navigate and overcome these obstacles to successfully navigate this corporate labyrinth _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:20—Introducing Bill + the topic of today’s episode3:37—If you really know me, you know that...4:26—Defining strategy04:54—Motivation that lead to writing Corporate Innovator07:17—Research approach for Corporate Innovator9:36—The corporate labyrinth 11:55—Where innovative ideas come from 13:38—Techniques for generating more ideas 15:24—The idea hierarchy obstacle 18:08—Tunnel vision and the core business  20:15—The Ally Maze: managing up, across, and down 22:41—Tyranny of the team  24:29—Mind games  24:41—Effective language for discussing new ideas with your team24:38—Handling "bad" ideas constructively 27:10—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Faculty page: https://business.columbia.edu/faculty/people/william-dugganLink to book:  Corporate Innovator: A Guide Through the LabyrinthThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Frederik Pferdt is Google's first Chief Innovation Evangelist and author of "WHAT'S NEXT IS NOW: How To Live Future Ready.” During his time at Google, Frederik played a pivotal role in shaping one of the world's most renowned creative cultures. He founded Google's Innovation Lab, where he trained tens of thousands of Googlers to develop and experiment with cutting-edge ideas. For over a decade, he also taught groundbreaking classes on innovation and creativity at Stanford University. Something that shines through Frederik’s work is his eternal optimism and emphasis on an active creation of the future, rather than passive prediction. This perspective challenges us to think differently about innovation and our role in shaping the future. In this episode, Frederik shares: How the future isn't something that merely happens to us, but something we have the power to actively create—a viewpoint that empowers organizations to see themselves as agents of change The six dimensions of a future-ready mindstate, which together form a way of looking at the world that reveals potential all around you Powerful—yet often underrated—psychological techniques that leverage positivity, gratitude, and optimism to enhance team dynamics, boost morale, and create a more innovative, engaged environment _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:16—Introducing Frederik + the topic of today’s episode3:38—If you really know me, you know that...6:32— Defining strategy: Envisioning the future and designing experiments 07:52—Desired versus predictive future09:51—The core idea of Frederik's book 11:41— The five dimensions of a future-ready mindset 15:14— Embracing optimism in innovation 17:26— Reimagining work: Using metaphors to envision the future 21:16— The mistake of relying on predictions and trends  23:20— The evolution of life's priorities: From objects to relationships 26:10— The power of reframing: Transforming challenges into opportunities 28:12— The science behind optimism and the benefits of gratitude  31:08—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal website: www.frederikgpferdt.comLink to book: What's Next Is Now: How to Live Future ReadyLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/fgpferdt/Instagram: www.instagram.com/frederikgpferdt/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Brian Evergreen, author of Autonomous Transformation: Creating a More Human Future in the Era of Artificial Intelligence, named a Next Big Idea “Must-Read” and for which Brian was shortlisted for the 2023 Thinkers50 Breakthrough Idea Award.  Building on his experiences working at Accenture, Amazon Web Services, and Microsoft, Brian advises and speaks to organizations around the world, guest lectures at Purdue University and the Kellogg School of Management, sharing the unconventional and innovative methods and frameworks he developed leading and advising Digital Transformation initiatives at many of the world's most valuable companies. There are very few people in the world who has had as much experience of Brian facilitating strategic conversations that lead to big, breakthrough ideas. At the core of Brian’s ideas is that in this age of accelerated AI, there is not only room for—but a dire need for human reasoning to remain a core component of business strategy in what he calls “autonomous transformation,” which contrast with and complements what we all call digital transformation.  In this podcast, he shares: The differences between transformation, reformation and creation — and when each is best employed given the presence of key criteria His "reason-driven Framework," which in contrast to data-driven frameworks, allow the space and opportunity for human experimentation, learning, and innovation The critical difference between digital transformation (moving from analog to digital) and autonomous transformation, which encompasses systems that autonomously handle processes and make decisions, emphasizing that transformation should create value, not just imply digital changes_____________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:09—Introducing Brian + the topic of today’s episode2:56—If you really know me, you know that...3:29— How chess shaped Brian's approach to strategy 04:49— Defining strategy: a decision tree framework 05:56— Challenges of strategy implementation in organizations  06:58— Reformation vs. transformation, the key differences 09:17— Knowing when to build from scratch 11:24— Reason driven framework for strategic decision making 14:16—  Data vs. reason: Why reason driven decision making is crucial  24:22— Steps of the reason-driven framework 28:48— Digital vs. autonomous transformation 33:43—Solving for the future _______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Link to personal website: www.brianevergreen.comLink to book: Autonomous Transformation: Creating a More Human Future in the Era of Artificial IntelligenceLinkedIn:  www.linkedin.com/in/brianevergreen/Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Cristina Alaimo, is the Assistant Professor of Digital Economy and Society at Guido Carli University in Rome, Italy and soon to be Associate Professor at ESSEC Business School in France.  Her research focuses on innovation catalyzed by data-based services and the consequences it has on organizations and society. Cristina also studies the broader ecosystem of data exchanges in which digital platforms are embedded and how these new platform ecosystems emerge and evolve. In her recently released book, DATA RULES: Reinventing the Market Economy, Cristina and her co-author Jannis Kallinikos, dive deep into the unprecedented social and economic restructuring brought about by data. In this episode, we discuss: The fascinating history and role of data in our society—well before even the tech boom, with its origins in writing itself How many of the social constructions that we know of, even our own digital identities, are shaped and created by data The four functions of data—and how business ecosystems are evolving the traditional functions to create new business models and value chains What business leaders need to know to seize the new opportunities the evolution of data is creating, even breaking out of the traditional concepts of industries of business as we know it today _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:01—Introducing Cristina + the topic of today’s episode2:55—If you really know me, you know that...3:48—What's your definition of strategy?04:52—The historical function of data 08:40—The link between data and institutions  11:55—The interrelation between data and writing 15:12—The four functions of data 18:08—The data making process 22:43—Data's impact on ecosystems and platforms  26:38—TripAdvisor case study 30:25—Redefining industry concepts 33:02—Future of competitive advantage  37:44—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources: Link to book: DATA RULES: Reinventing the Market EconomyLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cristinaalaimo/X: https://x.com/cristina_alaimoThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Stephan Meier, is Chair of the Management Division and the James P. Gorman Professor of Business Strategy at Columbia Business School whose work lies at the intersection of behavioral economics, business strategy, and the future of work. Customer-centricity has long been at the forefront of conversations that involve optimizing profit, with the idea that happy customers lead to increased revenues. But a new theory is quickly gaining traction—that employee-centricity is just as important. Stephen is a big advocate for the idea that happy employees not only boost company morale, but have a clear direct correlation on the bottom line. In his upcoming October 2024 book, The Employee Advantage: How Putting Workers First Helps Business Thrive, he collects fascinating case studies and insights from his research to showcase how businesses that invest in employee experience often outperform others.  ___________________________________________________________________In this conversation, we discuss key points from his book, including: How you can adapt customer-centricity frameworks and tools to improve your employee experience The four key motivators in the workplace beyond compensation that have an enormous impact on performance How technology can both help and hinder the workplace—and how you can use it to optimize the employee experience _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:26—Introducing Stephan+ the topic of today’s episode2:59—If you really know me, you know that...5:34—What's your definition of strategy?06:06—The thesis of Stephan's book08:38—Clarifying employee value creation  09:58—Employees as the new customer  16:13—How companies should see their employees19:49—Are companies really prioritizing employees?  22:03—Common misconceptions about employee motivation  27:47—Exemplary employee-centric companies  32:20—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal site: www.stephanmeier.comLink to book: The Employee Advantage: How Putting Workers First Helps Business ThriveLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephan-meier-5297082/X: https://x.com/meier_steph?lang=enThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

The world has undergone a transformation in the past century, as the industrial revolution turned many luxuries into everyday commodities. Then, at the turn of the century, the advent of the internet compounded this supply and demand shift. Now, we are entering yet again a new era as we see technology once again propel us into a new radical shift we call: Proximity.  Full disclosure, in this episode, we follow a different format to present the findings a book I co-authored with Rob Wolcott, cofounder and chair of The World Innovation Network (TWIN Global). He came up with the idea years ago. He I spent the last three years compiling research and case studies on the topic into our recently released book: Proximity: How Coming Breakthroughs in Just-in-Time Transform Business, Society, and Daily Life. In this discussion, Rob and I are honored to be joined by guest host Stuart Crainer, co-founder of Thinkers50, the definitive listing of the world's top 50 management thinkers. Rob is the cofounder and chair of The World Innovation Network (TWIN Global) and adjunct professor of innovation at the Booth School of Business, University of Chicago. Together, we lay out the key discoveries Rob and I made as we interviewed innovators, business leaders, and other experts seeking to piece together the facets of the concept of proximity: the idea that digital technologies are pushing the production and provision of value ever closer to the moment of demand in time and space.What we discovered is a monumental shift in how businesses approach value creation. Rather than following the typical value creation chain that has so long prevailed the concept of business and industries, businesses are now meeting customers by creating value at the moment it is needed. Not just when they need but actually where they need it.The implications of this shift with change most, maybe every, area of life: the way we work, eat, heal, produce, power, defend, explore space. And the implications for businesses are profound as well, and we share what leaders need to know and act on now if they want to stay ahead of this curve that will likely upend every business industry as we know it. We hope you enjoy this special episode of Outthinkers.__________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode0:33—Introducing the topic of today’s episode4:25—If you really know me, you know that...5:41—What's your definition of strategy?6:36— What is Proximity? Unpacking the core concept 11:31— Praise for Procrastination: The counterintuitive logic of proximity 14:38—The Proximity revolution: Real-world examples and implications 17:20—How well is the Proximity concept understood in the business world 20:40—Proximity and AI 25:01— Overcoming obstacles 26:27— Proximity pioneers: Organizations leading the way 31:40— Just-in-time reimagined 32:46— Sustainability and Proximity  36:04—Projecting proximity's timeline 38:40—Optimism and caution in the proximity era Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Matt Beane, is an Assistant Professor in the Technology Management Program at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He has conducted extensive field research with robots and AI seeks to uncover systematic positive exceptions that we can use in the workforce. His award-winning research has been published in top management journals such as Administrative Science Quarterly and Harvard Business Review, and he has spoken on the TED stage.  Curiously enough, 2012 he was also selected as a “Human-Robot Interaction Pioneer.” Matt took a two-year hiatus from his PhD at MIT’s Sloan School of Management to help found and fund Humatics, a full-stack IoT startup.  All this is testament to his passion for bridging what he calls the “master-apprentice gap.”  In this discussion, we dive deep into topics from his book, The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent Machines.___________________________________________________________________In this episode, Matt shares: His concept of “the skill code,”— and the 3 Cs needed to ensure skills are able to transfer between humansThe setbacks organizations could face if they don’t address the widening gap that is preventing upcoming workers from gaining skills from more experience workers. Imagine what happens if – doctors, lawyers, engineers, chefs, and other apprenticeship-heavy professions are unable to build bench skillsWhat science and psychology teach us about how humans have traditionally learned and developedThe steps business leaders can take to ensure that this novice-expert gap remains manageable_______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:13—Introducing Matt+ the topic of today’s episode3:18—If you really know me, you know that...5:07—What's your definition of strategy?05:50—Matt shares what lead him to the subject his research and latest book  11:20—Learning skills through a three-tiered approach: See one, do one, teach one14:48— Defining skill vs knowledge 16:38—3 Cs: Challenge 21:35—3 Cs: Complexity  23:42—3 Cs: Connection 28:48—The impact of AI on capability building 31:41— Organizational strategy for skill preservation 34:12—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal site: www.mattbeane.comLink to book: The Skill Code: How to Save Human Ability in an Age of Intelligent MachinesLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattbeaneTwitter: https://x.com/mattbeaneThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Christopher Marquis, the Sinyi Professor at the University of Cambridge Judge School of Business. Chris writes a regular column for Forbes and his work has appeared in the Boston Globe, Washington Post, Fortune, TIME, Foreign Policy, and Harvard Business Review. He is also author of Better Business: How the B Corp is Remaking Capitalism  and Mao and Markets,  which made the  Financial Times “Best Book of 2022,” list. Christopher takes on topics that are, or should be, important for companies and society. In this episode, we dive into concepts from his newest book, The Profiteers: How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes Costs_______________________________________________________________________________In this episode, Christopher shares: The underlying premise that drove him to write his new book—the fact that companies often pass on the hidden negative costs of their business onto society and the environment, while keeping the benefits and profits for themselves Why this is changing now, thanks to broad systemic changes underway with investors, consumers, employees, and governments Evidence that a group of pioneers taking actions to minimize their negative impacts and turning that into a competitive advantage Upcoming policy changes that business strategists should keep top of mind, that will impact all businesses—and how jumping on this curve serves to potentially reward those who do _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:19—Introducing Chris + the topic of today’s episode 3:05—Chis shares what lead him to the subject of his latest book5:46—The cost of externalities11:21—EU's CSRD policy, a seismic shift in corporate sustainability reporting 15:33—Regional competition and policy differences 19:51—Regenerative business models26:48—Starting points for corporate strategists 28:53— How can people follow you and continue learning from you?_______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal site: https://chrismarquis.com/Link to book: The Profiteers How Business Privatizes Profits and Socializes CostLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-marquis-3884834/Twitter: https://x.com/Chris_Marquis_Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

Bruce Vojak, is Managing Director of Breakthrough Innovation Advisors, LLC, and serves on the Advisory Board of Midtronics, Inc., JVA Partners, and the Board of Directors of Micron Industries Corporation, and is a Senior Fellow with The Conference Board.  Further, he has co-authored five book chapters—in addition to numerous peer-reviewed publications and conference presentations—on innovation. He is the author of No-Excuses Innovation: Strategies for Small- and Medium-Sized Mature Enterprises (published 2022) and Serial Innovators: How Individuals Create and Deliver Breakthrough Innovations in Mature Firms  from 2012.Bruce was formerly the Dean and an Adjunct Professor in the top-ranked Grainger College of Engineering at the University of Illinois at Urbana‐Champaign. Earlier in his career, he was Director of Advanced Technology for Motorola’s non-semiconductor components business and was on the research staff at MIT Lincoln Laboratory. Bruce brings together real research with real-world practice, while taking a more human-view of innovation. Spanning a career at the intersection of business and technology, Bruce has experienced and explored innovation purposefully and variously._______________________________________________________________________________In this episode, Bruce shares: The definition of innovation, how it relates to strategy How successful innovators view organization politics and why this is important The key characteristics of innovators seen from years of research, and what sets them apart from the rest How innovators often see patterns others miss, and feel it is their "call of duty" to help an organization see and follow through on these ideas What it takes to be a good manager of innovators—and how they can hold on to these innovators when not equipped to manage these unique individuals _______________________________________________________________________________Episode Timeline:00:00—Highlight from today's episode1:04—Introducing Bruce + the topic of today’s episode2:57—If you really know me, you know that...4:06—What's your definition of strategy?7:13—What's your definition of innovation? 9:00— What sets serial innovators apart from others 14:12—What is a serial innovator, and the specific characteristics? 18:01—  Managing serial innovators effectively 19:35— Politics as part of the innovation process 21:02—  How serial innovators manage politics within an organization22:30— Motivation for his "No Excuses-Innovation" book 24:40—  Book recommendation for strategists  _______________________________________________________________________________________Additional Resources:Personal site: https://www.breakthrough-innovation-advisors.com/bruce-vojak/Link to book: No-Excuses Innovation: Strategies for Small- and Medium-Sized Mature EnterprisesLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bvojak/Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please folThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast