Social Media Escape Club

Max Pete joins to talk about chasing tech dreams, the rise (or comeback?) of offline community, and how creatives can find balance between being seen online and actually living their lives.

In this wide-ranging conversation with writer and astrologer Frederick Woodruff, we dive into the shifting landscape of newsletters and paid memberships, why he moved away from Substack, and what it really means to create outside of social media. We also talk astrology (including the Saturn–Neptune conjunction), Frederick’s new book The DMER Diaries, and the slow, grounding power of email lists and small communities.

Seth talks with musician Matty C about the unvarnished truth of creating and releasing an album in 2025 — from launching a $20k Indiegogo campaign to pressing vinyl, filming a live show, and telling the deeper story behind independent art. They dig into the realities of streaming payouts, building community, choosing platforms, and why story matters more than algorithms.

Prioritizing real-life connections: Angela Hollowell shares how focusing on in-person events over constant social media brought her valuable contacts, new opportunities, and even an award. She notes that “in real life, it just matters that much more,” and that her name still traveled through rooms even when she wasn’t there.Owning your platform and content: Creators should control their own domains and archives instead of relying solely on LinkedIn, Substack, or other platforms. Angela is moving her LinkedIn archive to her own site, calling it a permanent “home on the internet” where all her work can live.Consistency over perfection: Publish when your message is clear instead of chasing tiny improvements. More “at bats” builds consistency faster than endless polishing.Love for the craft: Enjoying the work itself helps avoid burnout and sustain creativity for the long run.Rethinking monetization: Choose models that complement your work, like using content as a lead magnet for an email list instead of adding new “jobs” through strict paywalls.This conversation explores how to build a life around publishing — creating lasting value by focusing on what matters most to you and your audience.

Angela Hollowell (Please Hustle Responsibly) and Seth from Social Media Escape Club talk about stepping back from algorithm-driven platforms like LinkedIn and Instagram to build slower, calmer, more sustainable creative practices.Topics include:• Replacing daily posting habits with long-form writing• Why a newsletter is a better foundation than social media• Website strategies and owning your content• Hosting Zoom calls and building a deeper creative community• Letting projects “cook” and resisting the instant-gratification trapRecorded live on Substack, July 2025.

I spoke with Brie-Anna Willey about how scrolling works. That’s why social media has had such a hold on us—because we just scroll. There’s nothing to it. Then look at our websites, filled with links and categories and the wide images, it’s just like—decisions. Options.Do I want to click on their About page?Do I want to click on their Category page?Remember the blog post? Here’s a photo, then here’s the full text. And then there was the next one.What else does that look like?Instagram!Photo, text. Photo, text.It works.But all our websites are just set up like freaking grocery stores instead of IKEA, where when you walk in IKEA—you’re led, you’re given a path to follow.

Camilla Wickman links!https://camillawickman.com/https://camillawickman.bandcamp.com/album/red-rock-seal-skin

Some of the big things we covered:You need a space that’s truly yours (and feels safe to show up in)Real community comes from real connectionLeading something long-term? set boundaries, stay saneStart small, try stuff, be okay with messyChase meaning, not just follower counts

https://streamndestroy.substack.com/https://www.ryanjdowney.com/

More details here! https://socialmediaescapeclub.substack.com/p/max-pete-on-community-making-your

Music: cat therapy by L.Dre 

Sarah Fay and I focused on how people are using Substack right now, especially the temptation to treat Notes like another social feed to optimize and post constantly. We talked about slowing that reflex down and prioritizing email subscribers instead—saving strong ideas for newsletters, reposting things from Notes into emails so subscribers actually see them, and measuring success by retention rather than public subscriber counts. The emphasis was on engagement, keeping people on the list, and treating email as the primary channel rather than chasing visibility inside Substack itself. We also covered practical approaches to writing, video, and business models on Substack. That included writing in a way that feels natural, publishing without waiting for perfection, and getting comfortable sending work to small groups before larger audiences. On the business side, we talked about proximity, like keeping most work public while charging for closer access through Zoom calls or live discussions, and using Substack as a tool that supports existing goals rather than becoming another platform to manage. We also discussed live video formats, replays, YouTube workarounds, and treating Substack as a professional practice without overcomplicating the model. 

Subscribe to Mario's Morning Shakeout Newsletter! https://themorningshakeout.substack.com/

Tim's newsletter: https://soberlivinginthemusicindustry.substack.com/

Find out more about Claire Venus here: https://sparkleon.substack.com/

Find Mansi here: https://notes.mansimakes.com/

Get on Laura’s email list here: https://penfriend.rocks/helloGet Laura’s music on Bandcamp!

Subscribe to Olivia's newsletter here: https://oliviarafferty.substack.com/And check out her new album here: https://oliviarafferty.bandcamp.com/album/typical-forever

This episode is from a Substack Live we did on March 10th, 2025, where we discussed Chuck Marshall's nonprofit, GIG: The Art of Michigan Music, which he started to showcase and support the visual artists involved in the Michigan music scene. Chuck also talked about Life in Michigan, the website and newsletter he runs with his wife, Brenda, which focuses on local beer, music, and travel in Michigan. They discussed their move to Substack for their newsletter and the positive, more community-focused experience compared to social media. Finally, we touched on the thriving local Michigan music scene, the abundance of talented artists, and the role of curation in helping people discover new music - because new music is great!

Sean R Reid was a guest on one of our recent Escape Pod Zoom calls, and he dropped the phrase “artfully cacophonous,” which led to some good laughs!He talked about all the toys and other fun items he collects, and I was reading the part of Austin Kleon’s ‘Show Your Work’ where he talked “Don’t be a hoarder,” and I’m so glad Sean isn’t hiding his fun decor - I think you’ll appreciate this interview!

Spoke to Michael Gilbride of Mad Records on Substack Live yesterday (Wed, Mar 5, 2025) and we covered a lot of ground here. Buckle up.Directly reaching your audience with an email listBuilding trust in your work and how you present yourselfApproaching the business side of all this creativelyBe the RoombaGetting back to TALKING again, in personBe sure to subscribe to The Mad Records Monologue to keep up to date with everything Michael is doing:https://madrecords.substack.com/

We covered a lot on this nearly hour and a half chat, including, but certainly not limited to:Owning your work and backing it up.Why waiting to be "discovered" is a flawed.How email and direct outreach beat relying on social media algorithms.Focusing on conversations and connections instead of chasing numbers.https://botharetrue.substack.com/

Sarah Faith Gottesdiener and I talked about building a sustainable business with an email list, rather than relying heavily on social media.Sustainable can mean a lot of things, but we found in our conversation that it means ease, calm, peace. Like sharing resources, and solving problems together.

Social media companies want you sitting on your couch consuming as many ads as possible. It feels like a leisurely activity, but really you’re working very hard to increase shareholder value for massive corporations.Sara Eckel wrote about this in ‘The People Who Don't Want You to Sleep,’“Social media companies don’t want you to go out and have fun with your friends—they want you to look at pictures of your friends having fun without you.”Eckel references the the book Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention--And How to Think Deeply Again, in which former Google design ethicist Tristan Harris says “You can try having self-control, but there are a thousand engineers on the other side of the screen working against you.”Breaking this habit takes more than just deleting the apps. It takes intentional action, which is what Joi Katskee is doing.Joi (pronounced Joe-ee) runs Electric Radio Club, a weekly two hour radio show. But she also started bringing people together in real spaces to talk about music (watch the video above for the whole story).Sure, it’s always going to be hard work to get the word out and get people to come out, but whoever shows up, well, that’s who shows up.This is the work worth doing because it builds real world connection, unfazed by algorithms or “reach.” Social media platforms fear this, since now they are the ones missing out, unable to monetize our gathering and sell our data to advertisers.So how could you apply this to your work? How do you get closer to the people who enjoy your art? What does it look like to do that in s sustainable way?Years ago I ran a Patreon for my heavy metal trivia project called Skull Toaster.That was bringing in $240/mo, and I was sending out a lot of stuff every month. Zines. Mystery metal CDs that I’d buy at the local music store. People could sponsor questions, and I’d make those hand written THANKS images and put them on social media.I did a few virtual metal trivia hang outs, but I should have done more. I hid behind the social media posts because I was terrified of getting my questions wrong in a live space.But like Scott Perry recently told me, “fear is a compass. It only shows up when we’re pointed in a direction worth exploring.”What would happen if you did a Zoom call with the people who follow your work? Or if you planned a small dinner with other creative people in your orbit?Say we use the internet as a tool to make the plans, and then we close the laptop and build with the handful of people in front of us - then what?What could we do that we’re avoiding because we’re scared?Raise our rates? Fire that client?Post that musical performance from our bedroom on YouTube?Delete your music from Spotify? Delete Instagram from your phone?Join that class. Teach that class?And what are we hiding behind?Making a dozen more vertical videos for 2% of your fans to see?Updating our About page for the 20th time this week?Spinning our wheels trying to get our website to look just right?Waiting to reach a certain number of followers before we believe in ourselves?You know what the scary thing is. Now go do it.

Colin Czerwinski spent his own money making his first photo book and sold most of them by being in the right room.Being in the right room is an elusive destination for many creative people, mostly because we find it very easy to be in the wrong room on many occasions.Colin and I talked about our friends Diana Pappas and Tom Bland, who recently set up at a local art fair, and it didn’t go so well:“As soon as we walked in the door to the art fair, we realized we were in the wrong room.”Colin set out to get into vibrant spaces with a well-curated collection of artistic sellers, filled with people who appreciated a photo book like NOICE Nᵒ.001 and were willing to drop $60 to own a copy.Most definitely the right room.Diana and Tom are professionals and shared what they learned from their experience.“The question becomes, how do we get into the right room? Where even is the right room? Who has the key?In the days and weeks following the fair it dawned on me that perhaps we have the key: this newsletter is the right room and we are already there.”Their newsletter Writing With Light is one of their right rooms, a space that contains their people. The people who signed up said, “Yes, I enjoy your work and would like to know more.”So much of what we’re all doing online is trying to get into the right rooms.Social media platforms have convinced us that they’re the right room to be in - if you sell photo books and art prints, well, people who like photo books and art prints are there, just waiting to buy from you.However, the problem is that social media is for everyone, like the food court at the mall, serving the loudest, most broadly appealing items to everyone all the time.If you make Dungeon Synth noise pop or lunch meat surrealist artwork, then it’s possible that the modern social media network isn’t the right room for you.Avoiding the wrong rooms takes time and patience, which is why I keep talking about finding (or starting) a community to learn and grow together, to speed up the years of “trial and error.”If you’re a musician, join Dedicate Your Life To Music for weekly group calls and learn from an industry pro and a group of musicians from all levels.If you’re an artist, you could join the Introvert Drawing Club and spend time with other artistic individuals.If you want to leave social media, you could join my weekly Escape Pod Zoom calls and start your adventure with other creative folks on the same journey.Scott Perry’s Solopreneur Success Circle has actionable concepts for business and life, and plenty of dad jokes.You could scour Reddit threads and watch 100 hours of YouTube videos. Or you could join a community like the ones above (or start your own) and learn alongside real people who’ll encourage you on your journey.Don’t leave it to luck to get into the right rooms. Spend the time and energy on building connections and learning through others to get you to the new heights you seek.// Watch the full interview video with Colin here.

Hey! I spoke with Cody Cook-Parrott about NEWSLETTERS, so this video is packed with some ideas that you could use for your own projects:Segments!Using lead magnets!Creative bothering (Cody came up with that one during this interview)!FlodeskZapierCody’s Newsletter classSubstack’s RecommendationsSee How Teenage Wrist Promote Their Tour By Telling a StorySeth WerkheiserTeenage Wrist email (web version)“Marketing is a creative practice.”“Creative bothering”