The Cult I Left Behind

One hundred episodes. Two and a half years. This is the moment when we pause and look back, say thank you, and close this chapter that is so dear to our hearts. Amanda and Kyle take a trip down memory lane, pay tribute to guests who came on the show, and share two important letters - one to the person who made this show possible, and one for you: the people who made it real because you showed up, week after week. Much love to each of you. Stay on the journey with Amanda as she pivots to a new show: The Healing LifeSupport the show

We've been crying for days, and we're not done yet.In this penultimate episode, Amanda and Kyle reflect on 2.5 years and nearly 100 episodes of The Cult I Left Behind — what it cost, what it gave back, and what they know now that they didn't when they hit record for the first time.Amanda shares what this show taught her about her own healing, her foundational wounds around family and belonging, and a moment at the dining room table that gave her something she'd waited almost 40 years for.Then it's Kyle's turn. For 99 episodes he's been the listener, the witness, the steady presence beside Amanda. Today we celebrate him for modeling what it means to be a safe person for thousands of listeners. Before we close this chapter, Amanda turns the mic around to honor what he's brought to this show and the standard he's set for all of us.This one's going to require tissues. You've been warned.Episode 100 — the finale for now — drops in two weeks.Support the show

Many of us who were raised to be good little girls are facing some hard realizations these days.This episode is a stark look at the links between cults, high-control religion, and sex trafficking rings, and their impact on girls and women.Amanda grew up inside the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) cult, a high-control religious system where girls were trained to be compliant, deferential, and self-policing. Being “good” meant protecting the system. It meant absorbing harm quietly. It meant never being the problem.In this conversation, Amanda and Kyle explore how “good girl” conditioning doesn’t just operate inside cults. It operates anywhere power is protected and girls are expected to stay agreeable. They talk about what it means to be “good” in these systems, about silence, about trauma in the body, and about why watching powerful men avoid consequences can feel destabilizing for women who were trained to keep everyone comfortable at their own expense. Support the show

We're focusing on our little family this week, but will release back-to-back episodes to make up for the delay. See you in a week! Support the show

Fear lives in the stories we tell ourselves, the categories we cling to, and the way we decide who is safe and who is “other.”In this episode, Amanda and Kyle examine how fear quietly shapes worldviews in cults, families, belief systems, politics, and everyday thinking. Amanda reflects on a question listeners have asked for years: How did your parents end up in a cult? Her answer is simple, but unsettling: fear.Together, Amanda and Kyle explore how fear and high-control systems operate in strikingly similar ways. They simplify complexity. They demand certainty. They divide the world into clean categories: good and bad, safe and dangerous, us and them. Over time, those categories harden into ideology and, eventually, into identity.This conversation also looks inward. How does fear get internalized? How do we inherit beliefs without examining them? How does learned fear turn into a “cult of one,” where data no longer penetrates and unhelpful beliefs go unquestioned?This episode invites listeners to slow down, notice what fear is doing inside them, and gently interrogate the beliefs they’ve been taught to protect.If you’ve ever wondered how people come to believe what they believe, this episode offers language, clarity, and a slower, steadier way of noticing what fear is doing inside us.Support the show

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We’re often told that exposure leads to change. That once harm is named, brought into the light, or made public, something will finally shift.But that hasn’t been Amanda's experience.In this episode, Amanda and Kyle talk through why exposure alone rarely produces real change and why, in many systems, it actually becomes a substitute for it. They look at how harm can be acknowledged over and over without anything structural changing, how public reaction creates the feeling of accountability without enforcing it, and why the same dynamics keep repeating even when everyone inside the system knows what’s happening.This conversation is about naming a pattern: the difference between awareness and transformation, and what gets lost when we confuse the two.If you’ve ever felt unsettled watching harm be exposed again and again with no meaningful consequences, or felt pressure to disclose while power remains untouched, this episode is meant to give you language for that dissonance, and a clearer way of understanding what you’re seeing.Support the show

In 2024, as public conversations about abuse, grooming, and accountability unfolded again and again, Amanda found herself watching familiar patterns repeat. These patterns felt uncomfortably close to the high-control religious world she thought she had left behind. For Amanda, this was not just cultural commentary. It was personal.In this episode, Amanda and Kyle step away from sensationalism to offer something different: structure.Using the cases of Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Gothard, Amanda explains the architecture of abuse. She examines how power is built, protected, and normalized, how grooming operates long before it becomes criminal, and why systems so often defend themselves at the expense of survivors.Rather than focusing on graphic details or individual pathology, this conversation examines the conditions that allow abuse to flourish. It explores why the stories in the news feel eerily familiar, why true accountability and justice rarely occur, and why simply removing bad actors never fixes the underlying problem.By the end of this episode, you will have a clearer framework for recognizing grooming and power dynamics.This episode is for anyone who has felt disoriented watching recent narratives unfold, and for those who want language, clarity, and a steadier way of understanding what is really happening beneath the headlines.Support the show

The holidays come with an expectation of joy. For many people, that expectation can feel impossible.In this quiet, honest conversation, Amanda shares a truth she’s been sitting with for a long time: healing doesn’t automatically make you receptive to happiness or joy. When your nervous system formed in trauma, joy doesn’t arrive on command, and it often can’t depend on other people or outcomes you can’t control.Together, Amanda and Kyle talk about trauma and the weight of holding other people’s stories, as well as what it looks like to create moments of joy that aren't forced or performative. Amanda shares how she has reframed joy to focus on small, sensory, unexpected moments that arrive when we make room for them.If the holidays feel heavy this year, this episode is an invitation to let joy look different — and to know you’re not broken if it does.Support the show

In this episode, Amanda and Kyle dive into moral scrupulosity OCD and how it has shaped Amanda’s life. She shares openly about the intense anxiety and compulsive behaviors she developed growing up in a high-control religious environment under Bill Gothard’s IBLP cult. These patterns looked like “perfectionism” on the surface but were actually rooted in fear, uncertainty, and shame. Amanda discusses the research connecting high-control religion to obsessive-compulsive symptoms and explains how scrupulosity didn’t disappear when she left the belief system, it just changed form. Today, it shows up in relationships, conflict, and her own internal self-perception. She talks through the coping strategies she uses now, the progress she’s making in therapy, and what healing looks like in real time. This episode is an honest, thoughtful conversation about anxiety, identity, and the leftover rules your brain keeps long after you’ve left a cult or high control religion behind. Support the show

We’ll see you next week, when we’re feeling better, for an episode Amanda is so excited to share with you all! We’re grateful for you and we love you guys! Support the show

Sit in on the first conversation Amanda and Kyle have had together about what they’re learning on their journey as new parents.  Amanda opens up about lifelong fears around the kind of mother she might become, and Kyle reflects on what he actually sees in her.  Together, they laugh (and yawn) their way through the learning curves of parenting and share some of the moments when Amanda’s past collides with the present, such as raising public school kids after growing up in a cult that kept her from ever attending one and therefore having no idea how they work. Grab a coffee and come be tired with us. Support the show

Amy Duggar King joins us to talk about her new book Holy Disruptor, and she does not hold back. From growing up around the Duggar family and IBLP to setting boundaries and breaking cycles of silence, Amy brings her whole heart to shining a light on the darkness that shaped her childhood and family. We talk about the gap between reality TV and real life, what it means to be labeled the “black sheep,” and how choosing truth and boundaries can lead to real peace. Amy opens up about the process of writing Holy Disruptor, healing generational trauma, and what she’s learned about protecting her own child. If you’ve ever been told you’re too much for speaking truth, or if you’re ready to be a holy disruptor yourself, this one’s for you.  Find Amy’s Book Here Connect with Amy on Instagram: @amyrachellekingSupport the show

Author, veteran, and advocate Elizabeth Estabrooks joins Amanda and Kyle to explore the realities of trauma, institutional betrayal, and what it truly means to heal. Drawing from her decades in sexual assault and domestic violence advocacy, Liz shares the inspiration behind her book Broken in the Stronger Places—and why healing is less about perfection and more about resourcefulness.Connect with Elizabeth:www.awomansvoicepress.comBuy Elizabeth's book here:Signed CopyBarnes & NobleAmazonFundraising for the Spanish version of the book:https://gofund.me/f93ca2f1Support the show

In this episode of The Cult I Left Behind, Amanda once more opens up her old diaries from her time in the IBLP cult and the early days of leaving. She reads while Kyle reacts in real time. Together, they talk through what those pages reveal about life inside IBLP, the challenges of leaving, and the moments of growth and hope along the way. Amanda and Kyle also share some important life updates. Support the show

We’re diving into Shiny Happy People Season 2 — and this time, Kyle’s the one with the inside scoop. While Amanda expected to lead the conversation, it turned out Kyle’s past experience at an Acquire the Fire event made this season his wheelhouse.In this episode, we share our live reactions, unpack the big themes of Season 2, and talk through why this follow-up series hits differently than the first. Whether you’ve already binged it or are still working up the courage to press play, join us as we process what the doc reveals about high-control religion, manipulation, and the systems that shaped so many of our lives.Support the show

When Chantelle was sent to the cult Headquarters as an “encouragement case,” she encountered Bill Gothard’s inappropriate and abusive behavior toward teenage girls firsthand. She shares what it was like to grow up in IBLP and ATI, survive both Headquarters and the cult’s finishing school for young ladies, and ultimately marry young to escape her father’s “umbrella of authority.” Today, Chantelle uses her story and training in hypnotherapy to educate others and bring healing to those manipulated by shame, guilt, and fear. She also offers practical ideas and resources for people who want to pursue healing but face financial constraints.Connect with Chantelle:www.chantellen.comResources Chantelle Recommends:The Tapping Solution Appwww.ifsbuddy.chatBooks Chantelle Recommends:Feeding Your Demons by Tsultrim Allione Self-Therapy (3rd Edition) by Jay Earley, PhDThe Untethered Soul by Michael A. SingerSupport the show

In the second half of our conversation with poet Jessica Jocelyn, we pick up where the shocking story of her mom left off. Jessica shares how poetry became a way to make sense of loss, love, and the wounds only a mother can leave behind. Together, Amanda and Jessica talk about healing mother wounds, the fear of becoming like the women who hurt them, and the complicated feelings that surface as we begin to look more and more like our mothers with age. Connect with Jessica:linktr.ee/jessicajocelynInstagram: @letters.to.annaFacebook: Jessica Jocelyn PoetryTikTok: @jessica.jocelynSupport the show

In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, we’re honored to welcome poet Jessica Jocelyn—whose writing has been a healing touchstone for Amanda and may already be familiar to listeners of the podcast.Jessica is a best-selling poet whose work explores love, loss, motherhood, and the complexities of family with raw emotional power. She’s the author of five volumes of poetry, all widely praised for their vulnerability, resonance, and reach.In this episode, we discuss:Jessica’s childhood with a mother who felt more like a cult leaderHer experience as an adult convert in the Jehovah’s Witnesses—what led her there, and how she found her way outHer forthcoming poetry collection, Paper Flowers, releasing August 31, 2025This is the first time Jessica has shared her full story on record—and it’s a wild, heartbreaking, and healing ride.We can’t wait for you to hear it.Connect with Jessica:linktr.ee/jessicajocelyn Instagram: @letters.to.anna Facebook: Jessica Jocelyn PoetryTikTok: @jessica.jocelynSupport the show

Amanda has gotten a lot of questions about whether she would ever let anyone from her biological family back into her life.For a long time, the answer was no. But then something changed.It’s been a year and a half, and we've waited a long time to talk about it. This is the first time we're sharing the story. Support the show

Amanda reads from her childhood diaries—yes, actual entries from her cult years—and then melts through the floor in embarrassment. It’s awkward, vulnerable, and a surprisingly raw window into growing up homeschooled under fundamentalism. Support the show

Amanda opens this episode with some never-before-shared stories from her early experiences in therapy—including one that caught even Kyle off guard. From there, the mic turns, and Kyle shares what it was like to hear Amanda’s story for the first time and slowly step into the world of advocacy and trauma-informed care. What begins as reflection becomes something quietly transformative—revealing just how much learning and love can grow side by side. Support the show

In a deeply personal episode, Amanda opens up about the circumstances that led to the end of her relationship with her adoptive parents. What started as a long-building tension came to a head when Amanda asked to be treated like a real daughter—and was told no. She and Kyle walk through the factors that shaped the outcome, what was said, how it unfolded, and what it means to grieve the loss of a family you thought chose you.Support the show

Content warning: This episode includes discussion of sexual violence, including against children. When Amanda set boundaries with her bio family—and the brother who abused her—she expected it to be hard. But not like this. In this highly personal episode, she shares a glimpse into the painful correspondence with her three younger brothers and their disturbing responses: manipulation, gaslighting, and spiritual abuse. They questioned her story, weaponized religion, and even tried to enlist her ex-husband—claiming he was “God’s authority” over her life—to force her back into the family’s narrative about the abuse. This episode explores what happens when family chooses power over love. Kyle joins to unpack the emotional and spiritual toll of being betrayed by those you once protected, what it means to forgive, and what it looks like to walk away when the cost of staying is your truth.Support the show

As The Cult I Left Behind listeners know, Mother’s Day isn’t a sappy Hallmark holiday for Amanda. In this episode, Amanda and Kyle talk about what the day brings up—not just for Amanda, but for anyone who experienced harm from their mothers. Amanda shares a letter she wrote to the mother figures in her life and reflects on how watching motherhood play out in the cult shaped her earliest beliefs—and deepest fears—about what it means to be a mom. She also reads a personal list of fears she’s had about becoming a mother herself, and the steps she’s taken to work through them. The episode closes with a short selection of poetry honoring the pain of mother wounds, plus date and time details for an upcoming livestream. Jessica Jocelyn (poet) Instagram: @letters.to.annaSupport the show

Unfortunately there was a death in the family and we do not have an episode for this week. However, we have a short update about some interviews and an upcoming livestream. Stay tuned for more information.Support the show

In this companion to the earlier episode on discipline inside the cult, Amanda and Kyle shift their focus to what healthy, respectful discipline actually looks like. They reflect on what they’re learning in their adoption training classes and how sharply it contrasts with the abusive tactics Amanda experienced growing up in the IBLP cult. They also discuss the lasting impact of corporal punishment, including research showing it affects the brain in ways similar to sexual abuse and other forms of violence.For Amanda, this conversation runs even deeper. As someone who’s lost both a biological and chosen family, the process of preparing to become a parent brings up a lot of questions—about worthiness, healing, and whether having a family is in the cards for her.This episode holds space for grief, growth, and the kind of parenting that breaks generational cycles.Support the show

In this episode, Amanda and Kyle dive into listener questions about what made Amanda’s parents susceptible to joining the cult, how they became involved, how the cult accumulated massive assets, and whether Amanda’s rapist brother ever received any mental health diagnoses. They also discuss how Amanda’s college viewed the cult's ideology and its current reputation within the evangelical community.Amanda and Kyle also tackle a thought-provoking question about faith: how does Amanda respond to people who say it wasn’t God who failed her, but people? A nuanced theological conversation follows.Finally, Amanda and Kyle share a brief update about Amanda’s adoptive parents, addressing listener questions and providing some clarity on where things stand now.Support the show

In this episode, Amanda and Kyle share their transformative experience during a recent trip to Denmark, contrasting it with Amanda's upbringing in a high-pressure religious environment and subsequent military service. Amanda discusses how the slower pace and quieter, more relaxed culture of Denmark allowed her to feel truly relaxed and safe for the first time in her life. They explore the cultural differences they observed, including the emphasis on work-life balance and the importance of being present, which profoundly impacted Amanda. As they strive to integrate these lessons into their life back in the U.S., Amanda and Kyle also announce an upcoming live stream collaboration focused on discussing life in high-control religious environments.Support the show

In this episode, Amanda and Kyle dive into the process of deconstruction—what it is, why it happens, and how it unfolds across different areas of life. From faith and identity to relationships and worldviews, they explore the key domains of deconstruction and the challenges that come with questioning deeply held beliefs. Whether you're in the middle of your own deconstruction journey or just curious about what it entails, this conversation offers insight and validation. Support the show

Some big life changes are on the horizon, and Amanda and Kyle share a bit about their next steps as a family. They also dive into listener questions, discussing the most effective therapy approaches Amanda has found, how the cult handled cases of incest, and its stance on queer folks. It’s a raw and thought-provoking conversation—one you won’t want to miss.Support the show

In this episode, we sit down with Nate, an IBLP/ATI cult survivor and trauma survivor, to unpack the deeply ingrained conditioning we experienced growing up in the cult. From childhood grooming and the loss of personal identity to the twisted teachings that framed God’s love as something to be earned, we explore the ways the cult set us up for harm. Nate shares his personal journey of launching into adulthood without the tools to navigate the real world, the challenges of healing from childhood and religious trauma, and his experiences as a man seeking therapy. We also discuss what it means to reclaim agency, identity, and self-worth after years of being treated as a prop in someone else's narrative. Was it “worth it all” as IBLP promised? Listen and find out.  Adult Children of Alcoholics®& Dysfunctional FamiliesSupport the show

When we think about keeping kids safe from predators, we often imagine dangers lurking in the shadows—but the reality is much harder to face. Most abuse is committed by people close to the family, making prevention both challenging and deeply personal. In this episode, Amanda shares practical, real-world strategies for protecting kids from sexual predators, setting clear boundaries, and creating open lines of communication that empower children to speak up. Support the show

In this episode, Amanda and Kyle tackle listener questions surrounding the impact of purity culture and sexual trauma. They dive into Sadia’s poignant voicemail, discussing how rigid purity culture affects perspectives on sex and consent, and dissect the harmful black-and-white thinking that can follow. Amanda shares personal insights into breaking free from self-blame and replacing toxic family voices in your head with healing ones. They also respond to a touching message from Naomi, a fellow IBLP survivor, highlighting the importance of self-love and the complexities of family rejection. Additionally, they offer practical advice for listeners like Erica, who are navigating through their past and seeking ways to get involved in advocacy and support. This episode is a heartfelt and educational conversation that you don’t want to miss, especially if you are interested in topics like abuse recovery, psychological healing, and community support.Support the show

What happens when you escape a world built on control, fear, and secrecy? How do you begin to heal after a life of indoctrination? This week, we're joined by Daniella Mestyanek Young, author, TEDx speaker, and cult survivor, to dive deep into the harrowing and inspiring journey of leaving a cult—and finding yourself on the other side.Daniella's website: https://uncultureyourself.com/Buy Daniella's book: https://uncultureyourself.com/pages/bookInstagram: @daniellamyoung_Facebook: @Daniella Mestyanek Young_Author YouTube: @KnittingCultLadyX: @daniellamyoungSupport the show

In this episode, Amanda and Kyle are joined by Marian, a sexual health and pleasure educator, for a powerful conversation about breaking cycles of shame and stigma. Marian shares her positive experience growing up in a family where vulnerability, honesty, and support were the norm when it came to tough topics like sex.Together, they explore the stark contrast between Marian’s upbringing and Amanda’s experience in the oppressive purity culture of the cult. They dive into what it means to pass down healing, not shame, to the next generation and how parents can foster openness and healthy communication about sexuality.They also tackle a listener question about how to talk to kids and teens about sex in an approachable and affirming way, offering practical advice for creating safe spaces for these important conversations.Plus, Amanda and Kyle share details about some exciting upcoming episodes, including the incredible guests and thought-provoking topics you won’t want to miss. This is a must-listen for anyone interested in promoting sexual health, breaking generational cycles, and embracing honest, healing conversations. Resources:https://thepleasureproject.org/the-pleasure-principles/https://parentandteen.com/resources-about-sex/https://www.cdc.gov/healthy-youth-parent-resources/conversation-tips/index.htmlhttps://parentandteen.com/help-parents-talk-comfortably-about-sex/Support the show

Amanda and Kyle reflect on an incredible year of connection and growth and share their heartfelt gratitude for the listeners who’ve supported the show. From messages and comments to thoughtful questions, your voices have made this journey meaningful. Amanda and Kyle also drop some news about exciting episodes coming in January to kick off the new year! As the holiday season approaches, Amanda shares a gentle reminder to prioritize emotional safety, mental health, and self-compassion. The podcast will take a short two-week break, but Amanda and Kyle can’t wait to return in January, refreshed and ready for what’s next. Thanks for being part of this community, and happy holidays!Support the show

Amanda shares a pivotal moment from her childhood: being made to apologize to the person who raped her. She and Kyle discuss the circumstances that led to this event, the family and cult factors at play, and how the experience continues to affect Amanda today. Together, they explore the long-term implications of spiritual manipulation and abuse. Support the show

In this heartfelt and personal episode, Amanda opens up about the unexpected role the musical Wicked played in her journey of leaving the IBLP cult and rediscovering herself. From its powerful themes of challenging authority to embracing individuality, Amanda shares how the story of Elphaba’s courage and defiance resonated deeply during her deconstruction and healing process. With raw vulnerability, she recounts the moments when Wicked’s music and lyrics felt like a lifeline, inspiring her to “defy gravity” and chart a new path. Whether you’re a fan of Broadway or navigating your own personal struggles, this episode is a reminder that even the most unexpected things—like a stage musical—can be a source of hope and strength. Tune in to hear Amanda’s reflections, her favorite songs from the show, and why Wicked remains a meaningful part of her story.Support the show

Amanda finally shares some of her dating history post-cult, pre-Kyle. Stories include the Taco Bell incident (Kyle's favorite), trad-wife-seeking encounters, insurance scammers, and that one time Amanda asked a guy out (see social media for the whole story). Also, as a public health professional, Amanda is very proud of how she handled the sexual aspect of her dating history. ;)Support the show

Join us for a quick Thanksgiving episode and special announcement! Kyle shares his family's special Thanksgiving meal tradition and Amanda shares some memories of Thanksgivings from her childhood. For all of our listeners with tough family situations this holiday season, we send you love and a reminder that you are worthy, your boundaries are important, and you always have community here with us. Happy Thanksgiving!  Support the show

Amanda and Kyle respond to listener questions about head coverings, cult practices around the Sabbath, if Amanda thinks her boldness and intelligence caused her to be targeted for abuse as she grew up in the IBLP cult, and how Amanda thinks sexual abuse against one of her brothers would have been handled versus how it was handled for her as a girl. Support the show

What do Cabbage Patch Kids and the 2024 election in the US have in common? A lot, as it turns out. This episode was recorded in response to a poll posted on social media asking listeners to share topics they would like to hear in an episode. Amanda and Kyle discuss correlations between Bill Gothard and Trump/Vance.Support the show

Kyle is in the hot seat sharing his background in the Christian church, his thoughts about purity culture as a young adult, and the way he handled sex and relationships as someone who attended Baptist church. Amanda learns a shocking revelation about Kyle's past. Kyle shares his deconstruction story and his eventual departure from Christianity. Jump in the comments and convince Kyle to share photos of his high school hairstyle on our social media channel. Support the show

Amanda shares her deconstruction journey, which began a decade ago when she was a worship leader for a church. That was awkward. She talks through attending seminary after Bible college and her process of realizing there were aspects of Christianity and religion that were irreconcilable with logic, in her opinion. Kyle accidentally lands in the hot seat when revealing parts of his deconstruction experience, so more to come on this topic for sure! Support the show

Following up on the marriage purposes series, Amanda and Kyle share their non-courtship story that basically ignored all of Bill's relationship guidelines. However, Kyle almost followed purity culture with room for the Holy Spirit for a whole lotta dates. Amanda will never let him live it down. They compare Bill's marriage principles to the insights of an actual therapist who, you know, is trained in these matters, and Kyle reports on the results of travel-enforced abstinence--in case you were wondering how Bill's marriage rules work out in the real world. Support the show

Amanda flies solo for another episode. This time, she shares about her journey out of a very checked out or dissociative state and home to her own body, mind, and emotions. Amanda went on this journey as she left the cult and began abuse recovery, and also more recently. She shares the ups and downs of the process, including the discomfort of checking back into your own life and becoming aware of issues that exist there as well as the joy of getting to know yourself for the first time. In the end, she finds her way home. Support the show

Amanda and Kyle are joined by a special guest! Skye's story caught our attention right away—her mother, the owner of an adult toy business, sent her to a fundamentalist Christian elementary school WAIT WHAT?! The part about her mom’s business is a great story and will make you chuckle, but unfortunately, this school is also where Skye first experienced grooming. It was also at this school, at just seven years old, she was told Satan was living in her heart, sparking a deconstruction journey that began decades before, well, many of us. In this episode, Skye delivers a powerful message on the importance of listening to children when they express discomfort, how naivety can make individuals more vulnerable to grooming, and the crucial role of believing and protecting survivors from further harm. She also opens up about her own journey to heal and reclaim her ability to trust and find goodness in others, even those with differing beliefs.Topic warning: Grooming, rape, biphobia Support the show

We reach the end of our Six Purposes of Marriage journey! Amanda and Kyle procrastinate and talk about a lot of other things, including how the violin is the most righteous instrument, before diving into Bill Gothard’s strange teachings about what marriage “illustrates.” Amanda and Kyle recap the purpose of marriage in the IBLP cult, which is basically about abstinence and the menstrual cycle, and Amanda gets the brilliant idea to try Bill’s abstinence program for science and report back on its marital impacts. Kyle proves difficult to convince. Amanda's story about being asked to perform music for a mass wedding ceremony to Jesus gets honorable mention. Support the show

Mothers aren't protective. Divorce taints godly seed. A woman finally matters because she made a lot of kids who went and did church work. We talk about these topics and many other confusing aspects of Bill Gothard's teachings about pure Christian family lines. Amanda and Kyle also answer listener questions about beliefs in the cult regarding doctors/medical intervention/vaccines as well as a cult-adjacent program called "Bright Lights."Support the show