Hello and welcome to Running Inside Out Podcast, where we talk about the races we ran in, the races we're not in, and getting outside to see what's going on inside the Rochester running scene. In this episode... Karen Howe takes a day out of her recovery schedule to talk about her recent run as part of Team MR8 in the Boston Marathon. Karen is a super-fast roadie with a dedication to training and family. In addition, she's a meal prepper, a social media servant, and completely inspirationally positive. So maybe this will rub off on all of us. Karen recently blasted out a .308 at Boston, and that wasn't even her A goal. So she's got big dreams. Before we get into it with Karen, I'd like to tell you about a cool event that is being put on by the Greater Rochester Track Club.
Barkley Marathons at Mind the Ducks on Friday, May 10th, the night before Mind the Ducks. Now, you know Mind the Ducks. It's a 12-hour... timed race where you run around a one mile loop as many times as you can over 12 hours. You may have heard of a little Netflix documentary called Barkley, the race that eats its young. And if you are a trail or ultra runner, you may have even been asked if you ever ran or want to run Barkley, you know, like, Hey, did you ever do Barkley? Uh, because that person had saw the documentary. And if you are a silly person, you might even be thinking that you yourself do want to run Barkley someday. However, what you may not know is that we have two people from the Rochester area that have run Barkley.
Tim Hardy and John Fagverese both ran the race in 2012 and are actually featured in the documentary. John is one of the race's only 15 finishers. Tim was portrayed as the human sacrifice in the movie. John also has the distinct honor of, quote, the slowest finish, completing the Barkley race with less than 19 seconds remaining on the 60-hour clock. And to contrast that, both of them will be running Mind the Ducks this year, the 12-hour looped race in North Ponds Park, the flat.
paved one mile course in broad daylight where even the most determined people would have a hard time getting lost. Well, thanks to GRTC, Tim and John are going to give all of us a view behind the curtain. What was it really like to be in the Barkley camp? What's it like to... Actually start that race and then find yourself in the middle of the woods, not knowing really what's going to happen next. Join little old me for a panel discussion of a night talking about the limits of human endurance. We're going to dig deep into their Barkley experience and maybe even find out how a 12-hour looped course is the same or similar or different than Barkley. We'll be hosting the talk at the Holiday Inn right next to North Ponds Park the night before Mind the Ducks. The event cost five bucks with some going to GRTC and some going to the podcast. So check out the show.
notes for a link to the signup page or search for it in facebook as barkley at mind the ducks come hang out with us the barkley marathons at mind the ducks on friday may 10th from 7 p.m to 8 p.m hosted by grtc thanks to tim and john for being willing to share their stories of suffering with us and with that let's get into the trails training food friends and yes even feelings of runners just like you Hey. Hey. Thanks for having me. Yeah. How exciting. So, hi, Karen. Hi. You were kind of smirking during that intro. I thought that was – I thought – I mean – It's unbelievable to hear someone say that. It's quite flattering, I guess, when I hear it. It's quite the bar to set for the rest of the show. Yeah, right? That's what I like to do. It's like – I like running downhill. Same. Same. Yeah. So, you're back from Boston. I'm back from Boston. And just like a typical Boston, it was not an easy year. I know a lot of people out there can attest that.
They said, all that I hope is the weather is not as bad as 2018. While it wasn't from the standpoint of it wasn't cold with 40-mile-an-hour headwinds, Mother Nature was just brutal. to us in a different way, though. We started by getting bussed out there to thunder and lightning. We thought we're going to have a delay on the start time because of the lightning. There was a lot of logistics that went into getting people bussed out there. But by the time the race started, all of that had stopped. The humidity was 90 percent and it was creeping into the mid 60s. So if you're anywhere north, like I train in Rochester, New York, you're not acclimated to that at all. So that was a little nerve wracking in itself. But I thought, you know what?
You do what you're trained to do, one foot in front of there and hope for the best. But I knew adjustments had to be made by 14 or 15. Then full sun came out. So you had the humidity plus the sun. I mean, my entire back is completely sunburned. Thunder and lightning start. I'm not thinking sunblock. So it was tough, but we prevailed. Yeah. So you went all the way to mile 14 or 15. See, you're so fast. Yeah, I'm skipping right over that too. Yeah.
Yeah, 60 degrees and 90 percent humidity. Yeah. I mean, well, we had Muddy Sneaker on Saturday and it was it was nice, chilly weather and foggy like there was no sun. The sun came out a little bit later in the day. So it was pretty good. Minus the mud. Well, it's not called Dusty Sneaker. But I mean, it's it is springtime in the northeast. What are you going to do? You know, you have to. But I guess the other thing is Boston is always better springtime. You're always training through the winter, right? That's that's part of your training. What's it going to be like on race day? And Boston's just not a good.
marathon to have as your a goal so if anybody out like it they could probably count on your hands out of the 123 years you've been going how many times they've had quote unquote perfect weather it just doesn't happen so i think i've seen at least on social media and through various friends heartbreak because i think they went into it with different expectations maybe because i'm old as dirt and i've done it enough times i knew that i just i had to adjust it's just it wasn't it's not my day job running is supposed to be my fun stress relieving activity why i chose marathons might Give you a little insight into how crazy I am. Into what you think is stressful. Yeah. What's quote unquote fun. Yeah. But yeah, for context, you've done nine Bostons. Nine Bostons. Yeah. And have you done qualification times for all of those or a mix of qualifications and charities? Qualified. Yeah. In the last two years, I've run 14, am I right? But with my registered bib. Registered. So you've qualified for all these Bostons. And I guess that's what.
You know, my marathon PR is 341 as I talked about last episode talking about Boston. I would think that the race that you qualify for Boston for would be your A goal, right? I mean, that's the one that you work and Boston is your reward. Yeah. That's kind of like your ticker tape parade waving to the crowd kind of race. I completely agree with you. I don't think that's a mindset that some people have. Like if I could give any unsolicited advice, which I do all the time, is getting to Boston is the hardest part.
Once you're in, go have fun. These crowds are phenomenal. You just don't get those in an everyday marathon in a lot of the smaller cities. But still, a lot of runners are type A, myself included. And so you're always striving towards some goal. And it's hard not to put a time on that and say, but my fitness and the four months of training leading into the one day. It's not like a 10K where you can run hard and recover a couple weeks later. It's all your eggs in one basket. So I think that's where the heartbreak comes in.
Yeah, the idea that, well, I might only run Boston once, so I want it to be my best that I've ever run it. But it will be your best that you've ever run. Yeah, exactly. Bummer. Yeah, that would stink to have your whole...
I don't know, to have your whole world crushed by not being able to keep pace during a humid thunderstorm. It's going to happen. I think the people who can put less pressure on their performance can step back and maybe actually run their best. I know that me personally and whatever marathon I've done, if I take away some of those time pressures and adjust, I've run my best. And I knew going into Boston, sure, you have a certain level of fitness. And I talked with my coach where he thought I would be. And then I took that and tempered it down and said, yeah, but I don't know what the weather is going to be like. I've done this before.
Unless you have perfect weather day, that's my A race, you're going to fall off your time a bit. You're going to have to be okay with that. Yeah. So let's step back a little bit. You mentioned the last two years you've run with Team MRA. And before that, you were just running and qualifying.
If you've got nine Bostons, that means you've qualified through a number of different age groups. Persistent is what I should have said in the opener. Stubborn is also what I've been called. Yeah. So let's start at the start with Boston. What's it all about for you? When was your first Boston? When did it all begin? My first Boston was 2007. But my very first marathon, I didn't run through college or high school or any of that. It was really a bucket list. And so I ran that in 2006 and was fortunate enough that I actually qualified.
in 2006 for boston oh but keep in mind i was i think close to 30 and back in 2006 and 7 the qualifying isn't what it is today where it keeps getting faster and they've bumped up the times you used to be able to if you ran a qualifying time you could sign up even a couple months before boston and get it yeah you didn't need like that three minute cushion of the qualifier and the lottery and no none of that and i don't think there was the pressure like i came from i moved to rochester from boston so i lived there but even then like i knew of the marathon more so because we had the day off work um but as far as running it Wasn't what it is now. Like now you see people who their only goal is to run this sacred unicorn chasing race. Not to say that it's not sacred and important and special. It certainly is. But the pressure is just what wasn't there. I mean, they used to give out cotton T-shirts. So it wasn't that. So I was fortunate enough to stay healthy enough. And then once you entered into your 30s, it's a little bit more forgiving than trying to qualify in your 20s. So I was able to do marathons and repeat that qualifying time.
So I just knock on wood. I stayed healthy enough. I think that's half the battle. So you got accidentally hooked. You got in once and realized how good it was. Might as well keep going. I have selective memory. The big joke is that so my husband never wanted to run that marathon. I signed him up, came home and told him.
Oh, by the way, you're running this marathon and it's in Chicago. It's nonrefundable. We have to do it. And so he was great. Obviously, we were newlyweds. You couldn't tell me no either. So we ran Chicago and the whole race, you know, you start out. We were high five and the crowds are amazing. We're embracing all of this. And then you get to between 13 and 18 and life starts to suck. And so the talking starts to die down between us. And it turns quickly into that. You OK? Yeah, I'm all right. Yeah. I think at one point, too, he started cramping in his calf. And he's like, I'm just going to go over here and stretch. And I'm like, OK, I'll see you at the end. He's like, what the?
you're gonna leave me here i'm like yep yeah i am because if i stop i'm not gonna start again and so we kind of finished in misery and silence but my sister was at the end and she went nuts because she's like this is amazing to even finish a marathon and so i managed to completely forget the last six miles of misery like i hated it and my husband just he didn't forget so i was high-fiving and my sister's like i can do this again i'm like absolutely that was the best experience ever and they looked at my husband and he goes Started cursing at them and kept walking to the hotel. He never even stopped. And he hasn't run one since. So you're like that perfect story. There's like the people that do zero marathons, one marathon. There's nobody that does two. That's a good point. That's a really good point. Like none or one or all the marathons. You might as well have the car that has his car would have 0.0, whereas mine has a 26.2 sticker. Yeah, nice. But he's a good supporter. He's good. Someone has to watch the kids. Yeah, because you have over 30 marathons now. No, but getting close to it. I think I have about.
25. About 25, yeah. And you started 10 years ago, and that's not too shabby, you know? Sprinkle some kids and work and real life in between. It's easy. Well, that's what you're doing now, right? Because you're not training right now, right? So you're going back to real life. It hits you right back in the face. Hard. Yeah. So, all right. Let's talk about that a little bit because life is full for a mom with a full-time job who trains for marathons. Yeah, it's called I Get Up.
before the crack of dawn to try to squeeze it all in you really in order to make it work in my household you have to be a morning person because it's the only time that i can sneak out the door without having that terrible mom guilt that i'm like okay well now i'm leaving everybody behind well they're still sleeping no one in my house hasn't even my kids don't want to get up that early so it's never been a time slot that i've had to fight for the on the flip side though it's shown just how stubborn i am because who wants to get up at 4 30 and 5 in the morning every day to train yeah so i guess i really do like this running stuff Yeah. And you you kind of always look like you're enjoying it most of the time, even even when you're not. You still manage to like, I don't know, even on the bad run days, you're still like, but this is why it was still great. I'm I'm definitely a glass is half full all the time. I can't help it. I don't want to help it. I try to find the positive because I'm not going to dwell on the negative. Does nobody any good. But I have also discovered that I think I like the training grind more than any of the actual event. I don't like the anxiety of getting to the start and the logistics and all of that. But I love to work. I love that.
challenge of all of it so maybe that's why i'm smiling even through a tough workout the stubbornness yes yeah that's good i am i've found that it's when i was doing the road marathons it was really difficult for me to stay in the positive headspace all the way to the end i might have a little ebb and a flow and an up and a down and then if i did get to the starting line not injured then it was like okay celebrate that celebrate i'm actually just going to be able to run without things you know Falling off me before I started. But why not start with celebrating the small things? Nothing has to be a colossal success or you breaking the tape. I love running because you don't have to actually win the race to accomplish your goals. Yeah. So again, there I go. Drinking the Kool-Aid. Class is half full. Yep.
So, but you did have, what was it? Maybe a month ago before your last block, you had, you had a day, right? And I remember seeing that day when you were like, I actually, you actually were like, I quit on a run today. What happened there? Oh my gosh. It was a culmination of everything. So you were, you were starting like your fourth block or your last block, right? And I have that right. Leading up into Boston, probably had to have been about a little over a month out because it was before the New York city half marathon that I did mid March. But my job requires me to do a lot of quick.
day trips, but a lot of presentations and heavy emphasis on mingling with possible investors and just a lot of dialogue. So work has been full steam. Then you have we had travel with family and a lot of friends and all good things. But I don't think I realized how much it took out of me because I tried to do a workout and I just couldn't. I just couldn't do it. And I think that was one of the first times that it wasn't just falling off the paces. It was every step I took, I was getting more and more bitter and frustrated. And so I just called it. I think it was in like a post or something. I reached out to my coach. I said, I'm exhausted. If this is what it's going to be like, I need to take time off. And so we both worked with each other. And I think I took at least three days off of zero running. Just focus on sleeping, recharging, because I can go on very minimal sleep and I can go really strong with work and everything. But then once I'm done, I'm done. And I just.
couldn't do it anymore so i needed three full days to recharge and then i'm like okay the glass is half full again and then i went and i did a really great half marathon into new york so then it was just that that snowball started to go again as far as like okay i can do this i can do this i'm back yeah it was like one it was a big thing but it was it was one thing right and you were able to look at it like oh that's that's behind me now it's fine i can't dwell on the things i can't control and i just i have learned my limitations so through the running journey and now trying like Up until I guess we're going on about a year. I'd never had a coach before. I always ran one pace. And so now I'm learning slow paces, fast paces, all these things that are making me a little bit faster in my old age. But I have a breaking point. Yeah. And that idea that you have that old in your old age. But in terms of like marathon, you got young legs still. I think that's why I can still go and maybe have these new goals because I've never challenged myself in that way before. Running through my 30s, I had just started to have our family. And so we have two kids. And running 30s wasn't about.
qualifying or doing things for, I need to get X amount of time in a marathon. I just wanted to do them. It was my stress reliever. I always worked a lot. And so it was more just going out, getting the miles in the social aspect. That's how I got to know people in Rochester is through all these running clubs and whatnot. And so I didn't have that added pressure and speed on my legs. I still feel like that's probably why I can run now is I still have some miles left in these old ham hocks. Yeah. You're generally pretty fast anyway. Your natural speed is a fast, I think. I'll take that as a compliment. Yeah. At least I recall when we did show up at Medved Runs together, you're not on.
easy paces at group runs like you said you ran one speed yeah i did and get out and go whatever whatever feels good i just naturally fell into that that eight minutes seven minutes somewhere in between pace that felt good yeah and so how did you how do you now set goals you said you worked with a coach now and um you still got these boston things and and as far as your age group you're qualifying by a large margin so you're not i love it i love getting old it's amazing Yeah. And, you know, to set more context, you qualified with a three or you ran a 308 at Boston. Yeah. Right. So and you've had what that's your PR, right? It's a 308. Yeah. So you ran your PR at Boston. Reverse aging. You're a Benjamina button. Yes. OK, so how do you set your goals if you know that there's life and you know that there's going to be ebbs and flows? And but you're getting faster. Is your goal actually to break three hours now? It's kind of changed because so I just.
Now we're recording this and it's April. I started with McCurdy trained in June of last year. So we're slightly less than a year now. And now that I've been working with, I think it takes a while to get to know each other personally and what my running style is, what my capability is. So now that I've worked with them for a while, it's changed because it was originally started out in my mind. I wanted a coach to teach me, well, how do you go about getting fast? I had always told myself.
I had always told myself that to get fast, you just have to run faster. Well, there's a little more science to it, apparently. And so working with him, he's buried at my workouts, but I don't have to think about it. He just puts them together for me, knowing that we're going to see where our fitness goes. But I know one of his big he's a big proponent of not saying we're training you to a 315 marathon or we're training you to break three. We're just working on my general fitness.
Because at the same time, you might be capping yourself. If you'd asked me a year ago that I'd be running a 308 Boston, I would have laughed. I would have fallen off this chair and said, okay, you have a lot of faith in me. But I mean, I'm glad I didn't listen to my inner self because now every little bit, that's my new goal is to work the fitness and just see. I don't know. I could get faster. I definitely see the breaking three is a possibility. It just depends on what race will it be in if it happens. So I have Berlin in the fall. And that's at least hopefully a little bit more forgiving, of course, than Boston. And so I want to go fast. See what I can do. You just kind of throw that in there. I got Berlin in the fall. You mean like Berlin, Pennsylvania? Traveling to Germany. Wow. So that's a big deal. That was one of my goals. Well, working with a coach, obviously, he's helping me get faster. And that's just a fun goal in itself. But I want to do the world majors.
Since I've done all the U.S. ones, I started putting in for the lottery for some of the other ones, and I got into Berlin. And then after Berlin, we'll try for London and Tokyo and just see when I end up getting into those. But any excuse I can get to combine running and traveling, it's just a no-brainer. Yeah, that's – wow, Berlin. And that's a pretty fast course, right? World record-breaking. Yeah, so there you go. Three hours. Coming. Wow, in the fall. All right, good. We heard it here first.
Breaking news. She's going to come back. She's going to come back and tell us about breaking three hours in Berlin. I hope that happens. That'd be awesome. That's exciting. So where else have you traveled? Where are some of your, you've been to Chicago, you've done New York City, you've done Boston. Yeah, I've done Portland, Oregon, Big Sur Marathon out in California, which is my favorite.
I've always said that I'm only going to run marathons that are in great places now. I know you're not a roadie, don't really like road races, but you would like that one. I think I would. And, you know, I have seen it and I've said, well, you know, California coasts, you know, just so. It's gorgeous. Yeah. And they give you these handcrafted clay medals with a leather like a strap on them. The whole experience is embodied like just metal alone. The post party, everything about it's awesome. Yeah. I'm working on being a roadie again. I mean, I ran a road marathon before I ever did a trail marathon. I can bring you to the dark side. It's all right. I'm working. I signed up for Philly. So.
Who are you? See, road trip. Right? That's why. That's exactly why. It's because road trip. Friends will convince you to do things you never thought you would. Yeah, that's where I'm at right now. So I ran yesterday, so I'm already training. I didn't. You're ahead of me. Well, you got a good reason for that. I was going to start asking you if you ran today or yesterday, and you just went right into mile 13 of Boston. That's right. Nope. I haven't run since Boston. No rush. Take a week off. Relax. Sleep. Yeah. Drink. Yeah, that's good. I don't cut that part out when I train.
Well, you can't. You need something to help you to go to bed early so you can wake up early. Well, they also say never try something in a race you don't do during training. So why would I cut that out during training? Sorry, coach. Not sorry, coach. He knows. Look at him. He knows. It works. I got a 308. 308 is pretty fancy. And you're like, oh, it's a tough day out there. Boy, it really beat us up. It's terrible. And you ran a PR. A PR. Yeah, by two minutes. But you don't know that when you're running because I knew my fitness. We were going to go for on an A day, a 302. But I knew starting out that the air was a little bit thick. I was able to execute the plan.
All the way through 14, 15. And then it just got too hot. And I said, I need to adjust before I totally bonk. But you don't know. At that point, I didn't know anyways. I was thinking as I was running, have I maybe overestimated how fit I thought I was? And am I just really bonking? Because that's kind of the point where you either can continue with the plan or you kind of die off. And I was starting to die off. So I didn't know that. You don't know what people are feeling around you. So you kind of think in isolation that, well, maybe I just.
Thought it was more fit than I really was. And so I adjusted. And that was really hard because everything in my body hurt. And I really wanted to walk. And I thought, this shouldn't feel this hard. But you don't know people around you until you finish. So I crossed that line. And I kept readjusting my attitude because I had told myself after the 2017 Boston when I had a bad attitude that I never wanted to end another marathon like that because I didn't remember the experience. I just remember being mad about the time. That's not why I run. So I kept, during this race, whenever I started to get down on myself as to like why this hurts and I don't want to walk, I would look down at my jersey and say, you know what, listen, you are running for a cause.
running for something greater than you you're running you know to live through the martins and it just kind of kept me going and when i finished obviously yeah you can look at paper and say yeah but you ran a pr how hard how bad of a day could it have been well it was bad for me it hurt and i thought that i was just crumbling and you know i sat on the curb at the end of boston i cried i looked at my friend and we kind of hugged each other and we thought what do we do these you know these are all we signed up for this um But then it was after that I realized because I didn't look at my watch. I didn't know exactly what time I finished. And I'm like, holy crap. You know, I still did had a really decent on paper day. And then I realized the people as you start to talk to your friends and they come in and you're seeing the medical tents and they're you know, it's it's a rough day. It almost revalidated, even though, you know, it might sound kind of bad to say that I needed that validation. But it certainly kind of reassured me that, well, no, it wasn't just hard for you. You weren't in it alone. It was hard for everybody out there. Right. Yeah, it was a bad day. But you you fared well because of your training and your mindset. And, you know, that's kind of what marathons are. Right.
It's not only keeping your legs moving for 26.2 miles. It's holding off the demon dogs in your head. I know. I think that's why if you've only ever done one, it's hard to be really good at it unless you're naturally athletic and you get an amazing time. You accidentally qualify for Boston. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. But it's that mental game and that mental stubbornness, toughness, whatever you want to call it, that you can't really teach up experience and grow off that. Now, is running the only place where you have that sort of mental toughness and that glass half full and positivity? No.
I'm a goal setter. So no matter what it is, whether it's my schooling and having to complete my schooling when no one in my family had ever graduated college, no one had gone on to their master's or done it, it was always doing those things to push myself. So I think it's the work ethic that my parents instilled in me that is across the board, wanting to strive for greater things in a career path, wanting to work hard with my family, all of those things. I think it kind of carries itself. I know I'm not alone in that. It's not unique. I find a lot of my runner friends are that way. You're really driven. It's voluntary. Like it's kind of ingrained. Yeah. But I do notice some people where that is running.
If they're going to pick one thing to be good at in life, they're going to run really well. They may not be able to pay their cable bill on time. And they might be like, oh, I forgot that again. But they don't miss their run. So sometimes you can trade off. But sometimes I ask questions that I know the answer to. So you had mentioned Team MR8 again. And you had mentioned running for a cause greater than yourself. So I ran New York City Marathon in 2014 with Team Healthy Kids. And it was definitely that feeling.
You know, I was not racing that day, but everything I did was cast sort of in that lens of like, you know, all the fundraising I did and all the prepping and all the stories I did. I actually tried to like be a blogger during that time. And I wasn't good at it, but I said, you have to do this because this is what you signed up for. And this is why it's important to you. So the comfort zone part for me was not running the marathon. It was the.
asking for the donations. It was the sharing of the trials and tribulations and training and writing blog posts when really you're like, but you do it because of this bigger thing. It helps motivate. I know that when it also is one of those things, when you're raising money for a cause, you may believe passionately about the cause, but I don't know about you, but it's hard for me to ask people for money. But when I was doing it for something like this, you could put that all your insecurities about approaching people or all those to the side to say, yeah, but this isn't about me. This is about what I'm trying to educate people on or get the word out on. So then also transfer to the running element to where you can say, OK, well, this run isn't necessarily about me. It's not about only you getting a certain time. You can kind of pull on those. Why are you really running? OK.
There's people out here supporting you, high-fiving you, and they want to see you succeed. So just keep on going. Yeah. I wrote the names of everybody that had donated to my campaign. I wrote it on an index card and I brought it with me. And that's one of the things I still have. You know, I got the medal from there and all that. But that index card, I'm like, this thing must stay with me forever. It was really cool. And it was cool. It was really neat. And I did do the thing where you pull it out and you kind of look at it. And I had, you know, by miles, you know, I had grouped people based on when they donated or whatever. So I'd be like mile 10. And I would be thinking about those people during mile 10.
was really kind of a big mushy deal yeah it's a good distraction too yeah as far as just taking your mind off of the fact that you're physically it's a challenge to kind of take it off and say hey there's other things to be thinking about to get you through it And people do, whether they're there at the race or they're cheering from Rochester and not there to be with you in person. I knew that people were tracking you and checking to see how you're doing and sending you text messages. And, you know, for the most part, I think people want the best for you. And so it's kind of fun to do that. They're running. Yeah, it was really fun. And Team Healthy Kids is really cool charity. You know, doing things like taking one of the things that was surprised me. And I don't know why it surprised me because I went to city schools in Buffalo. But they would bring like vegetable taste test programs into schools and just have like vegetable day. And students who never knew what raw broccoli tastes like got to taste raw broccoli.
They do things like playgrounds and anything that a school might need to help have healthy kids. So that was kind of a big deal for me. But what is MR8 about and what's it mean to you? Sure. So it's the Martin Richard Foundation is the name of the foundation. And then Team MR8 is who they build teams for to run through, whether it's Boston Marathon, New York and various ones to raise money. But their four pillars are for peace, inclusion, kindness and sportsmanship. So they are really cultivating the youth to build the communities based on those principles. And so they have their board of directors driven by.
kids who are going out there into the community and they're doing things like volunteering and they don't cap it as like one activity. They'll go out there and they'll put together packs for kids who are maybe ripped out of their homes and put into foster homes overnight. They'll do different clothes drives. They'll work as soup kitchens. They're also building a huge park outside of the Boston.
Children's Museum. And so it's going to be an all-inclusive park for all levels, whether you have disabilities or not, for them, you know, an all-inclusive park. So that's where a lot of their money go towards. But they also give out microgrants. So if there's kids, you know, doesn't matter the age, who come up with an idea, a good example is like, let's say, I don't know if you've heard of buddy benches. Absolutely. Yeah. So what they do is kids can write in to get these micro grants and they'll fund them to say, here's the project I want to do for a community. And as long as it's based on their pillars, they will give out these little grants for the kids to carry out this mission of peace and kindness. So it's just one of those that meant a lot to me from the standpoint of I first heard about it because Boston Marathon and you hear about the Boston bombings and how they lost their eight year old son.
But they turned it into this good cause. And I'm a mom. So it really hit home to pick something that if I was going to run for something other than just myself, it was one of those I think we can all relate to, especially as parents or wanting something good for the community out there. And it has to start with the younger generations. So if I can do my part to try to help cultivate and get the word out, then I was excited to be part of it. Yeah, I had learned about MR8 through you. So I guess it worked.
A lot of people in Boston have heard about it because it is localized, but they do go outside of just the Massachusetts area. So that's something that we want to start to spread the word on, too, that it goes beyond just Massachusetts. It just has a bigger presence there, especially with the parks they're building and whatnot. Yeah, and Team Healthy Kids started in Chicago. And the charity is actually Action for Healthy Kids, and Team Healthy Kids is there. And they're really supported by Dean Karnasas as well. But what they do is they get representatives in other schools. So that's how they're sort of moving across all the states is they have, like, coordinators in all the schools. And you can write grants.
And very similar things teachers can write in and say, I think my school needs this. And, you know, they'll fund it. So, but it was really a very interesting experience going through all that. And I had just got Lasix like two weeks before the New York City Marathon. So I was doing this whole thing like, oh, I'm seeing the world through new eyes. And it was, yeah, it was a total mush fest. It was really great. How you do what works and what speaks to you.
Yeah, wandering through the streets of New York City. It was cool, definitely. So another thing, speaking of new eyes or something, I don't know. This is not a great segue. Your Instagram account and your running photography skills, I don't know how you do it. I don't know if you bring paparazzi with you, but it looks like you have a photo crew running with you, taking these amazing pictures. How do you do it? Is that something that you work on? So first you have to hire a team of about 20 people, and they have to be committed to getting up at the crack of dawn with you.
Yeah, I mean, they do your hair and makeup. They do. They're amazing. No, it's a lot of falling on your own sword and saying, hey, can you take a picture of me? But, you know, the other secret is this timer that Apple makes in their cameras. You can set it up and do a shot. But you can. But, I mean, they don't come out very good. No. But you've honed this. You've practiced it.
I'll take you out and give you some tips. And then you have, you can do it. You have like a, such a great Instagram handle. How about a run? Like it's like you've practiced all this stuff. And it's funny because I am old and was really slow to the uptake on this whole social media stuff that I think I started my account two years ago. So it hasn't been too long that I've learned all these tips and tricks, but there's a huge world out there that without that, you've never would have known all these running friends because first of all, my Instagram account is all running. So you're not going to see a ton of me posting my kids and things like that. It's really about, okay, here's what I ran today. So if you don't want to know what I ran, you're not going to be interested in my account at all.
I remember you were one of those first people with the finger miles and I was like, oh, she's a finger mile person. Yeah, the ones with the people that they just post their like watch or these random things. No one really cares. Well, I don't really think anybody cares to see me that early in the morning, but I'll still post it. I don't know. Some of them are interesting to me. I think what I appreciate about it is just how you've gotten so good at it. Like in the sense of you can look at one of your pictures and it's like.
It's a really good Instagram runner picture, you know. Now, there's a set of people that can't stand Instagram runner pictures, right? And they're like, oh, well, so did you break your seven minute mile to go and stop and take your picture and blah, blah, blah. And they don't. Sure. But I appreciate it for the art of it. The setup and the do the thing and the timing and the smiling and the stride. The haters are going to hate. Let's face it. They are. So if you just don't take yourself too seriously. Honestly, I've had people like I've told my husband, though, hey, can you just take a quick picture of me? He's like for you and the Instagram. What? Because he doesn't believe in social media at all. Like he doesn't have Facebook. He doesn't run marathons. He has to watch the kids.
He has, like, make sure that home front's all good. Yeah, I know. Apparently, though, he does have really great taste in beer. He has great taste in beer. And to him, all his running trips when he comes with me is his beer mission. So in Boston specifically, like, we don't take our kids. But he brings his bike usually. And we'll go. And they'll go for, like, I don't know, a ride. It can't be proven really how far they ride. Because they always end up at, like, a bar to get a burger and all that. And then he'll come home with, like, a couple flats of the really good beer. So I don't know what he's riding. But he's happy. I'm happy. Yeah, you're running. I'm running. But anyways, the art behind some of these pictures is really good.
I don't know how much we want to peek behind the curtain. You said you just ask people to take pictures for you. I'm not a little stranger, though. Usually if I'm running with someone, I'll ask them to or vice versa. We'll try to capture it. But I'm telling you, it's a self-timer. Do you do it before you run, during your run? Usually it's after or on easy runs. I don't do it during workouts unless it's before or after. You can't keep pace, right? You're not that good. I'm pretty steadfast that I will follow my coach's plan. I'm not going to stop for photos. But on an easy run, now that I know what an easy run is. Now that I run speeds. Now you're supposed to be going slow? Yeah. But what about like, I mean, some of these are really. So I'm guessing the ones where you can see like your.
You're at eye profile level. Those are somebody taking them for you. You don't have a tripod and lighting. No fancy equipment. Nope. So just the phone, you somehow prop it up. Thank you, Steve Jobs. You did a great job with your technology. There's nothing fancy about it. So you push the five seconds, you run away, and then you run back towards it, and you're good to go. You're good to go. Man, you've got skills. So anyways, for the listeners that can't see these things, you should go check them out because there's some good ones in there. I'm not going to go into detail. But then you've got the little timer thing that you put in there. How do you do that thing? What's that all about? The stories? No, not that. I don't even want to get into stories. We'll be here all night. I have no idea how those things work.
But I mean these little things on the side. That's just an app that has like a Fit app. And you log in the time and it does that picture thing for you. So he's taking an everyday picture. He's talking about FitSnap, the app. FitSnap. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Yeah, so he's right now looking at my Instagram, making me feel very awkward. I put a link. Look at all myself. I know. So narcissistic. How about Karen?
How can you handle yourself? Oh, I don't know. I'm a really nice person, everybody. You are. No, this is not meant to be embarrassing. This is like, so I have a podcast that I would love people to know about. Yeah, I'm going to put it on. I really should tell somebody about it someday. Well, apparently I'm going to take a selfie of you and put it on my social media and all the runner friends that are following me. I guess the other thing I would say is like you just said, it doesn't have to be a lot of work. Like you could just do it, right? It can't be a lot of work. You just do it and then you're done with it. If it's a lot of work, I don't have time.
time for it that's why you can you can see that some are better pictures than others but a lot of Boston lately because that was just that's a big deal yeah a lot of meetups and things with people it was really fun yeah but I like the it's the how about a run it fits well I mean the whole thing well truth be told so my name when I think when I first started it was something like Alaska to New York or something like Alaska to New York runner it really started to confuse people because they're like wait Wait, you're not in Alaska? Or you're in New York now? Where does Alaska come into play? And so I'm like, I just need to change this name. There's too many questions. And so a friend, my friend Krista here locally helped me pick that name. So I can't take full credit for it. It's pretty good. I mean, none of us can take credit for our names, right? Our parents gave them to them. I had a Marion to get this name. So I can't even take credit to my parents. It's really our husband's name. Yes, he does contribute to social media. If only he was a runner. I know. I can't have too many runners in the family. I have plenty of friends who they're fighting for the time slots.
As far as like if you have two active people in your family, it's tough to have kids. Yeah, you can do it. Someone's going to draw the short stick. Well, he's happy to have the short stick. He doesn't want to get up at 430 in the morning. No, no. Like you said, not many people do. I don't want to get up at 430 in the morning. No. So if you can see, like I'm not, I don't have many, I'm not good at it. So like I got to work on it. It's not true. I see some great photos on your. Well, just this last one is pretty good.
But yeah, so as this is not a visual medium, as I said, there's a link to your Instagram out there. People can go find it because it's a runner Instagram, like you said. That's exactly what it is. You have to appreciate the fact that I just overpost on running. Oh, wow. Love it or hate it. There's worse things to overpost on. Okay, so we're past that part. I just wanted to make sure to cover that because I think there's some important lessons to be learned there.
Who knew? All right. So let's see. Where do we want to go from here? I mean, you're going to Germany. That's something pretty crazy. You run all over the country. You got a 308 with eyes on a 302. You run at silly o'clock in the morning.
What else now? Where do you think you're going from here? Well, I'm not going to the Olympic trials. It's not one of my goals. So we won't throw that time down there. But since this has been less than a year of working on the speed stuff and I've had such great results, it will be fun to keep. I just work the mile that I'm in in any of these races. And I want to see how far I can go. My uncle, when he was, I think, 50, between 50 and 55. He's going to kill me if I'm massacring that. But I know he's in his 50s. He got a personal best of 253, I believe. Might have even been a little bit shy of that.
And so if he can do that, I just beat his Boston time. This is what it is. This is your quest. This is this is a level of stubborn that I am. It runs in my blood. The first thing he does is he texted me. I'm congratulations. I'm so proud of you. You beat me by one minute and 59 seconds. And so he goes, but you're still off of my I think it was at CIM out in California that he got that time. Challenge accepted. Well, you might beat his time, but you better wait until you're 56 because then he's going to be like, yeah, sure. You did it when you're 45. But I'm pretty sure between now and that age.
something or some things will break. So I'm going to have to factor in a little like downtime. The only thing that's going to break is that 308. That's about it. I like it. I mean, come on, you're healthy, right? I'm healthy. You eat good. Yeah. Yes. Well, you don't sleep. So that's something I do though. Oh yeah. I, even though I have to get up early, there's times when the peak of training, I will go so early to bed. Like after I put the kids down, it's not uncommon for me to go to bed at like nine ish or so to get that extra sleep. And then I'll make up for it. So a lot of times in like when I can't on the weekend or whatnot, because now the kids are seven and just about 10. So it's a little bit easier to sleep a little bit past them.
I don't have to get up and run. So I've been banking some time this recovery too. Like if you watch some of my Instagram stories, it's like nine hours, 11 hours. People are like, how do you physically do that? Yeah. No problem. No problem now. I mean, you're on your rest week. That's right. So when you're in your peak training, how many miles were you hitting? In the 70s. 70. Yeah. Never done that before though. Yeah. And you probably have about 30 of those on the weekend.
30 of what? 30 miles out of the 70. Yeah. So you're still getting in. And how many days a week you're running? Six? Just about seven. Seven? Yeah. Every once in a while we get a day off. But I think the philosophy was just to kind of keep moving, even if it means you're moving really slowly. And that's where the importance of knowing the difference of the different types of runs. Because people who are still over the thought that you can't slow down and get fast, it's definitely not true. There's no physical way that I could run fast all the time now. So I love to take it down. Like now I look forward to those easy recovery days. So you can just kind of like shuffle and do your thing.
Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking, so you're running, you know, between seven and 10 miles at five o'clock in the morning. Yep. Most days of the week.
So we'll see how long that lasts, but the training cycle doesn't kick up again for a while. So that's not all the time. All right. So we spent a lot of time on the roads. What's up with leaving the trails? Well, it's been winter, so I didn't do much of the trails. Well, I remember meeting you as a snowshoer. That's true. I didn't do any of that this year. Focused on the roads and with the coach, I didn't have time to get the snowshoeing in. But now that it's spring, I want to get back to the trails. It makes you a stronger runner for sure. I can be in hybrid. Absolutely. I'm just wondering when you're coming back. This is not an accusation. It's time. I miss it. But if you're trying to...
you know, go for three hours in Berlin. I guess an interesting thing to think about here is how do you work that into workouts with your coach? Yeah. Well, how I'm going to work it is you can't do your speed workout with some trails. I'm not going to be able to do road speed on trails, but I'm going to be able to incorporate those easier runs into the trails. And you've become such a strong runner by getting all those hills in because trails are not forgiving at all. They take no mercy. And then your pace naturally drops, right? So whereas somebody like you might have a hard time running at a nine-minute mile on the roads, nine-minute mile might come a little bit more naturally.
In the woods? It's easy now that I have to run fast on the fast days. You'd be surprised. It's a whole new me. It's a whole new you. No, but I love getting back to the trails and miss all of that. So now that the spring's out and it's time to get back out there, get into the woods. Yeah. Do you do all the other stuff? Do you do stretching and yoga-ing and weightlifting and TRX-ing and all that stuff? If you were on TV seeing my face right now, you would see I'm cringing because I really want to say yes, I do. You totally look the other way. Yeah. Yeah. I'm blushing. I want to say yes so bad, but I'm horrible at that. I can only do one or the other.
You got me on that. I do do more rolling, though. I never stretched. I never did any rolling. And now I find I do some rolling. But truth be told, my weight training goes out the window once you really get into the thick of things.
Basically, that's the only form of cross-training, and I heavily rely on deep tissue massage. It's like cheap. I'm telling you things are going to break. Things hurt so much more. I don't know if it's just because I'm running harder or I'm getting older, but don't do what I do. Make sure you stretch and do good things. Do you enjoy the deep tissue massage? You're one of those people that actually think it feels good, or are you just grin and bear it because you know it's your medicine? It's more of I know it's my medicine because there's definitely times in the deep tissue. First of all, I had to explain to my husband. I'm like, honey, this isn't like I'm going to the spa, first of all. There's times where I'm in the deep tissue.
and saying i need an epidural for this and that's then you get off the table like oh but i can walk now so it's so painful but i love it yeah it is it's hate it it's terribly good i remember the first time i got i got one from stratton and he had his like elbow in my hamstring like and instantly beads of sweat formed on my back you start to perspire and yeah i kind of like lean my head out a little bit and look to see is that a crowbar like what the hell is going on like that can't be a limb that they're using is that somebody's knee like yeah I don't know if I could massage someone like that, knowing how badly on the receiving end it hurts. I mean, I know it's all for the greater good. And my massage therapist, she's been laughing hysterically when she listens to this. But I don't know that I could do that to someone else because I'd be like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry this hurts. Well, you're a mom. So you know what it's like when you got to take the hangnail off of your kid's finger. You know what I mean? You're like, just hold still. It'll feel better after it's done. Yeah. That's the reason why I went into like accounting, number crunching. So I didn't have to like hurt anybody or like deal with all that. Yeah. I sling data. So same thing.
So that's it's funny because, you know, a lot of people will tell you, like, you got to do the full thing. You got to run. You got to stretch. You got to do yoga. You got to drink your kale. You got to like meditate. You got to do all the things. Yeah. Hop, stotch, backwards and blow bubbles up. Yeah. Now, how's your coach feel about that? I was Mr. McCurdy.
Does he put weight stuff in there? He will, but knows that once you get closer to really getting into the peak week, that that has to fall off a bit. So we'll put it into the schedule and I'll do like now coming out of recovery stuff, I'm going to try to build the base back up, but it has to kind of fall to the wayside with you can't do it all and work and do the running and everything like that. But he has a well-rounded approach. I mean, you only get out of it what you put into it. So if you start to shortchange and skip workouts and stuff, you're only shortchanging yourself, but it doesn't do any of the like funky diet advice and all of the judging the judges and stuff like that. So as long as you're doing the work and he can see we have an app.
it's it links to my garmin so there's no cheating like he knows you use like sport tracks or something he uses um the vo2 max one so it links up there so he keeps you honest but obviously your results aren't gonna tell any lies either so yeah so that's that's good because there's means there's hope for people like me then i'm telling you if i can do it anybody out there can do it yeah consistent i'm definitely out there i'm doing doing the work but it comes so anybody can do it like you said it's how much how much do you want it right like you get up at 4 30 in the morning yeah well what are your goals like if you're going to do a marathon for the first time And you said my goal is to – I cringe when people are like, my only goal of doing a marathon is Boston Qualifier. I wish people wouldn't say that because I honestly feel like your first marathon should just be like to finish. 26.2. Some people don't even drive that in any given day. That's what I hear.
I hear that some people don't drive that far. Yeah. That's what they tell me. Especially if you live in Rochester. That's what they tell me. 26. I don't even. How far is this marathon? Womp womp. Yeah. Oh, boy. So I'm excited for Germany in the fall. That's kind of crazy. So me and my husband is really. So, yes, there's a running element, but we're going to extend to be in Germany and other countries for a 10-day vacation, basically. Wowie. Yeah, excuse to travel. Mm-hmm.
It's a really good way to get my husband to buy into the continued running. Yeah. Now, there's not a lot of breweries like Trillium over there. Octoberfest, though. Yeah, I know. That's what I was going to say. You're going to get a lot of lagers and cultures. Yeah, darn. You're going to go just to the home of beer. It's unfortunate, but someone has to do it. I'll take one for the team. All right. Well, I'll be interested to hear about your sub three. Yeah, I'll go. If it's an A day, I'll go for it. Just for you, Chris. Just for you. Don't do it for me. Don't do it for me.
the podcast now that we put it out there. So usually when people get injured, you know, they throw like that. Yeah, don't try on my account. I'm going to run the mile that I'm in. I'll keep doing that. Yeah, all 20s, you know, 26 miles. And if you think of me during one of the good ones, that'll be fine. I'll put your name on a card. One of the good ones, not 21. I'll save it for mile like 12. 12, all right. Because you said 13 is when it starts falling apart. Because if it's hard before you hit the halfway point, you're in trouble. Yeah. All right, got anything else? I'll talk it out. No, I'm sure that people are ready to, they've heard my voice long enough.
All right. Well, there you have it. Boston, Chicago, New York, California, Germany, something about Alaska. We never did get that clarified, did we? Anyways, if you want to go see some of these things, you want to learn about Team MR8 or McCurdy Trained or some of the other random things, a link to Karen's fancy Instagram page. Be sure to check out the episode show notes. They are at runninginsideoutpodcast.com.
You'll find all sorts of links out there. You'll also find links to the Strava Run Group and the Patreon page. So we did talk a little bit about raising funds and asking for money in this one. And I'm traditionally not very good at it. But as you all know, lights got to stay on and podcast hosts don't give it to you on goodwill. So thank you to all of this month's Patreon supporters. Your continued support keeps us in these cushy, professional-looking studio digs so we can keep making a podcast. If you look forward to this podcast each week and it inspires, educates, or possibly entertains you, who knows.
consider becoming a Patreon supporter. You can check out the homepage and you can check out the show notes. You'll find a link, click it, and just know that any amount of your support is appreciated. Those people that are Patreon subscribers get a cool little after show. We get a little cool down. So some extra bonus content for those folks. If you want to share your runs and see the cool routes, other listeners are running, join the Strava Run group. You'll find that on the show notes. Keep in mind, the number one way you can always support the show is to tell a friend and help them subscribe, you know, and actually help them subscribe because that's a thing you got to do these days with podcasts.
I'm always interested in your feedback, so please leave comments. Drop me an email at chris at runninginsideoutpodcast.com. Let me know your thoughts. Thank you all for listening, subscribing, and telling your friends. Thanks for sharing your stories and getting out there to create more stories. Until next episode, be thankful for what you've been given, be proud of what you've achieved, and let go of what you've lost. See you out there.