A Rare Recording and A Reckoning episode artwork

EPISODE · Jun 1, 2026 · 2 MIN

A Rare Recording and A Reckoning

from Say What? with Michele Norris · host Say What? with Michele Norris

I could not sit on this story any longer. 🤎I have released a special audio episode on my Substack about a rare recording and a reckoning on the anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. We need to know more about this troubling chapter of American history. On June 1, 1921, the Greenwood community of Tulsa woke up to ash and rubble. The entire community, a Black neighborhood so prosperous it was known as Black Wall Street, had been wiped out by an angry White mob. Thirty-five city blocks were obliterated. Burned. Bombed. Looted. As many as 300 people were killed.And then the erasure began. First, they destroyed the community. Then the act itself was removed from collective memory. Police records went missing. Photographs disappeared. The people responsible for that terror pulled down a veil of communal silence.But one man named Elgon Wilson who witnessed the whole thing kept talking. And his family recorded the stories that he told over and over again at the dinner table. One of his grandsons shared those audio tapes with me, and now I can share the resulting podcast episode with you — a story about a family’s burden of inheriting a history than an entire community tried to hide. Grandpa Elgon always said he did not participate in the mayhem while he was working that night. But the family discovered things about his past that raise questions about his claim of being just a bystander. There are twists and turns and conundrums in this episode. And we also hear from Anneliese Brunner, whose great-grandmother survived the assault on Greenwood, as well as Tulsa native and Historian Scott Ellsworth, author of the book, Death in a Promised Land.This episode was a pilot for a podcast called You People, inspired by The Race Card Project where we collect 6-word stories about race and cultural identity. The genesis for this journey began when Elgon Wilson’s son Zachary shared his 6-word story about the carnage in Tulsa. We listened to the tapes. We did a lot of research. We traveled back to Tulsa with Zachary Wilson for the 100th anniversary of the race massacre in 2021. We produced a powerful episode, but it never got picked up for a full series so we are serving it up here on Substack. Some stories are too important to stay on the shelf collecting dust. And we intend to keep going. We will occasionally dip into the archives of The Race Card Project to serve up interviews, videos, animations, hidden histories, curiosities, courageous conversations and recorded segments. Stay tuned.Hope you will press play and take a listen. Let us know what you think.Take care of each other. Stay safe out there. 🎧 LISTEN HEREGuest: Zachary Wilson, a Presbyterian Pastor in Minnesota, whose grandfather was a witness to the Tulsa Race Massacre as he worked that evening and into the next day, delivering telegrams on his motorcycle for Western Union. Historians say the family audiotapes of Elgon Wilson’s memories from that day are an extremely rare instance where a White witness to the carnage in Tulsa recorded their recollections. Chapters:00:00 Introduction to the Race Card Project00:34 About TRCP01:16 Exploring Inheritance and Identity04:39 Zachary Wilson’s Family History10:21 The Tulsa Massacre: A Historical Context16:05 The Role of Bystanders in History21:32 Zach’s Journey to Tulsa27:09 Confronting Family Legacy32:49 The Complexity of Racial Identity38:29 Reflections on Change and ResponsibilitySHOW CREDITS:You People is a podcast inspired by The Race Card Project. This episode was produced by Futuro Media, whose commitment to stories that matter made this work possible. Special thanks to Nicole Rothwell, Mike Sargent, Marlon Bishop, Maria Hinojosa and the Futuro Team. There’s a reason that team keeps racking up awards! David Walters served as content editor. Melissa Bear is the coordinating producer for Say What Media and The Race Card Project. A big round of thanks to Mitch Kapor and Freada Kapor Klein who have supported TRCP on this long journey. BIG THANKS to everyone who has supported The Race Card Project over the years. Independent projects like this rely on people who are willing to lend resources, time, ideas and encouragement. About Zachary Wilson:Zachary Wilson grew up in Yakima, Washington, twin brother at his side, apple orchards out the window, which he’ll tell you was more formative than it sounds. He studied Philosophy and Classics at Augustana College, earned his M.Div. from Princeton Theological Seminary, and has spent his career as a Presbyterian pastor in the Twin Cities, most recently serving as “Acting Co-Executive Presbyter” of the Presbytery of the Twin Cities Area of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) It’s a title akin to a Bishop. He and his wife have called St. Paul home for many years.He is also, it turns out, the grandson of a man who was riding a motorcycle through Tulsa, Oklahoma on the night of May 31st, 1921 — and then talked about it for the rest of his life. That inheritance is what brought Zach to The Race Card Project.Say What? Substack is a reader supported project kept alive by reader donations and the generosity of our community. It’s a really exciting model, but I need your help to keep it going. Subscribe so you never miss Say What?. Get full access to Say What? with Michele Norris at michelenorris.substack.com/subscribe

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This episode was published on June 1, 2026.

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I could not sit on this story any longer. 🤎I have released a special audio episode on my Substack about a rare recording and a reckoning on the anniversary of the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. We need to know more about this troubling chapter of...

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