Robert Willy Pickton

Okay. I thought that's what we did. Forgot about that part. Literally just played it. No way! Oh my god! Gross. That's the worst. Welcome everybody to episode 109 of One Million of the Serial Chillers Podcast. As always, I ask, how goes it? Hello, Greg.

I know I traumatized you. I was going to say, it's tough now that I'm in charge of my own buttons and stuff. But other than that, good. You gave me responsibility. Yeah, what, do you want me to be a productive member of this team? Fuck off. And really quickly, we'll introduce the guests today, Dustin and Ashley. Hi, guys. Hi. We'll talk to you in a moment. Give me a second here. Most of you guys know how the show works, but let me explain it for anybody that doesn't. Each week, I sit down with old friends, new friends, good friends, and bad friends to tell the story of an infamous serial killer, something true crime, dark, creepy, unsolved, or otherwise mysterious. If something isn't clear, be sure to chime in because...

If you have questions about questions, be sure to ask questions because I cannot answer questions about questions if you never ask questions. Are there any questions? No, sir. I just feel like being extra creepy at the beginning. You're doing a great job. Well, then welcome to and let's play the Serial Chillers podcast. Okay. Today's killer. Tell me, have you guys heard of Robert Pickton?

Yep. No. Dustin's like, oh, I'm feeling familiar. So, as a lot of you guys will know, listening out there, we are going to be rehashing some of the old episodes that you can no longer listen to. So if subjects seem familiar, that's exactly what's happening. But trust me, I put a little more oomph into these episodes because those were early and those were bad. So, question number one. In what year was Robert Picton born? 250 points to the closest. 1,000 points if you can nail it. Dustin says 1938. Ashley says 1962.

Give Dustin 250 points because Robert Willie Pickton is born October 24th, 1949 in Port Coquitlam, British Columbia. I will do no such thing as give him points. Canadian serial killer, y'all! All right, now that our Jeopardy moment is over, I'd like to talk to these guests for a moment here. Both of them have been on the show before. You've seen neither of them because they're both new to that. Welcome, Dustin and Ashley. Hi. How are you guys? We're good. We're good. You guys ready to duke it out here? Is there like a divorce on the line or anything? No. Duke it out like it's a fist fight because I'm going to win this shit. Have you seen how big I am? No divorce. You know, you married us about a few months ago. But we all looked hella dope that day. Hella dope. But we've got this one out tonight. He thinks he's going to win every time.

I'm going to try and beat him this time. I think one time Dustin was on for an Ed Gein episode, and I thought about it, like, two questions in. I was like, why did I bring him onto this episode? Well, you brought Casey, too, and Casey knew everything about him. Yeah, yeah, maybe that's why. Did you ask questions that I didn't know about him? Maybe I just gave you, because I remember I asked for the birthday, and you were all, like, you gave birth. I was like, oh, shit, dude. Okay, well, give me the points. Good God. Write it down, I said, though. All right, so, guys, welcome. Good to have you back. Thank you. Nothing new about the studio. Only thing new is we can see your goddamn faces now. Let's see here. So, really quickly, references and citations for this episode. I used the book On the Farm by Stevie Cameron. It is fucking amazing.

Who doesn't love a good barnyard book? Charlotte's Web, Animal Farm, Babe. I love Charlotte's Web. Generally, when I read a true crime book, it's like the most dragging, dry, goddammit, I just need the information piece of shit book. This was kind of a pleasure to read. It was nice. So if you guys are looking for something. He spun a good yarn. Yeah. She. She spun a good yarn. My mistake. They spun a good yarn. How many pages do we got in this one? It's a big one. It's that fat one behind Bernie right there. Thanks for noticing. I'm glad we have the cliff notes today. Yeah. But it is a Patreon level at $20 to receive a true crime book out of our library. Could be this one. If you give it $20 level, you could be the lovely recipient of the book On the Farm by Stevie Cameron. Alice used a documentary, The Pig Farmer Killer, put together by CTV, Canada Television Baby, and then The Pig Farm, which was directed by Malcolm Clark.

which this one is very cool because it's probably the most recent Willie Pickton documentary, and I didn't bring any of the clips because none of them are incredibly important, but it's the first time I ever heard Willie Pickton's voice, and he sounds exactly like him. Sounds exactly like he looks, like a little Canadian man. Like a pig farmer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a pig farmer. There's some pig farmer out there who sounds exactly like Willie Pickton. He's like, what the hell? Getting pigeonholed. That happens on pig farms? So those two documentaries, and then as usual, the good old Wikipedia.

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The store will have shirts, yes. Our website will have all the hard goods. Right now you can get stickers, but soon I think we're going to have pint glasses, a couple little things like that. So check it out, man. Additionally, the Patreon and the donation page. We have heard a few people that are just not incredibly comfortable with giving monthly to the show, which, listen, we don't... I don't even give monthly to the show. Yeah, everything that you guys get is incredibly appreciated, but none of it is...

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Hope you wrote that down because you'll never hear it again. Exactly. So on the website is Greg's Linktree on there with his lonely fans? Yeah, well. I'm working on it. We're working on that part. I'm still trying to secure funding. And again, if you guys want anything. I'll fund you. Well, just wait until we're not recording, baby. Actually, no way. Go ahead. Yeah. Again, SerialChillersPod.com. Everything is there. Top to bottom. And go to the very bottom. That's where the address is. So Greg's wrong. You don't have to write now. All right, guys. Robert William Pickton or Wheelie. I'm going to refer to him mostly as Wheelie. Sometimes I call him Robert when he's being an official gentleman. Roberto. Or Robert.

He was from, you know, Vancouver. They don't speak French there. Robert William Pickton is born October 24th, 1949. Oh, hey, almost happy birthday, you fucking asshole fuckface. Not by the time you guys hear this, sorry. Happy late birthday. He was born in Port Coquitlam, British Columbia. His parents were Leonard and Louise Pickton. Leonard was born in 1896 and Louise in 1912. So that's a 16-year difference. Lenny Pickton. Oh, Lenny and Louise. He had an older sister, Linda, and a brother, Dave. His family were pig farmers. If you guys didn't catch that by every fucking documentary title and book title that we went into. Just the name, Willie Pickton. I'll tell you what other questions was going to be, what type of farmer was he?

Because I had that shit. Just the name Willie picked in those sounds. I learned my lesson about those questions because two episodes ago, I did a book as a reference that was like the killer's nickname. So I was like, I have a book. I can't tell you the title yet, though. And it was like question 14 or some shit. So I just like. Couldn't say the name of the book. It was very hard. So yes, he's got an older sister. He's got a brother, Dave. They live on a pig farm. They raise and slaughter little baby curly tails. Actually, they're fucking huge ones. Don't they wait until they're full grown? That seems more productive. Yeah, they do. But it's not as delicious. So it was initially a 14-year-old. Wait, is pig veal a thing? Yes. Is it? I was just kidding.

So it was initially a 40-acre swampland, and they paid to have their house moved to it. That's called a trailer. He fucking moved to the swamp. In 1949. He said, you know what outside our front door needs? Fucking alligators. I don't know how many alligators are in Vancouver, though. It's a swamp. They're everywhere. Yeah, just the Skeeters. So when you see pictures of the property, we'll show you guys some on break or something because we don't really have a slideshow for you. What do I look like, a goddamn school teacher? Get in there a little closer. What are you looking at, Greg? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I was trying to look to see. Sorry. Yeah, I get a little distracted sometimes.

Okay, so when you see pictures of the property later, like after Willie's caught, it still looks like a fucking swamp land. It's like a place with no drainage. It's like, think about like going out to a house in the Clovis country where they have dirt roads and it just rained. It's just fucking slush and just gross. This whole property looks like that. And it has buildings and pigs on it. It's real gross.

Kind of like where I grew up. The boys worked on the farm. The sister was sent to Vancouver to live with relatives. Vancouver. So the mom and dad were like, oh, a pig farm's no place for a little girl. She's going to go live in Vancouver. And Canadians, listen, this is endearing. Don't hate me. So, you know, it's not a place for a little girl. They send Linda away. It's pretty much the last time we're going to talk about Linda until way down the road here. But look at her. There's a killer in this story. No one's going to expect it. Yeah, exactly. So the boys worked very hard and their mother was known to be quite a tyrant. What? She had a distinct high-pitched squealing voice when yelling for the boys and it was not just her property her voice carried to.

Yes, this mother was so annoying that her annoying voice carried off their annoyingly large 40-acre property, and the annoying neighbors recall hearing it. Apparently, the boys were rarely bathed and even required to... Their mom never made them fucking take a bath. They never bathed on their own. They were on a pig farm. Just wait. Oh, my God, could you imagine? My mom used to say to me all the time, what's the matter with you? Were you born in a barn? Yeah, right. Like, your room's a pigsty. This kid was probably born in a barn, and his room was literally a pigsty. And his mom still said that shit. Yeah, that's still some mom shit. I got it. Just listen up, buddy. Oh, wait, you mean she's not a super great lady? So...

Rarely bathed, rarely asked to bathe. This would lead to some weird phobias later in life for Willie. I'll just tell you now. He didn't like to shower, even as an adult. Who does? You gotta stand there and shit. The Picton home was actually even open to animals to go in and out of. So the house is open to the pigs. It's not like, hey, our house is on a pig farm and we smell like pigs because we go out with pigs. No, no, no. The pigs just kind of go in and out. We smell like pigs because pigs come in with us. I don't know if you know this about pigs. They don't like go, oh, I should go shit outside. They just kind of shit wherever they shit when they need to shit.

I honestly thought when you said, I don't know if you know this about pigs, I thought you were going to say some shit like, you know how cows can't go downstairs? Yeah. I thought you were going to say that about pigs. Once they're in, they're in. Yeah, they're like vampires. Like, I don't know if you know this about pigs, but they can't come in unless they're invited, so they had to be invited. And once they're in, they've got to be bacon or ham before they leave. Yeah, I expected that, and you surprised me when you said they shit where they want. Yeah, they're pigs. Same thing with horses, goats, pigs. Obviously, they don't have a erectile. Well.

So those Ikea meatballs are pretty good. So, you know, we're thinking like sometimes it's like you've been to someone's house who you're like, why is there dog shit like on the floor? We're over here, man. Like, pick up your dog shit. This is just a house full of pig shit. So, you know, think about that one. So the Picton home where they eat, sleep. Go ahead and have a seat wherever. Make yourself comfortable. I literally can't. I can't. That is correct. The Picton home where they eat and sleep is home to not only their smelly asses, but some actual fucking smelly ass pigs. The boys were known as the smelly kids at school, believe it or not. They smelled like livestock and manure.

as well as the fat from the animals in the slaughterhouse. And that was stuck in their poorly washed or not washed at all clothes. Apparently their mom washed clothes by rinsing it in cold water in the sink. Just hanging it up to dry. Smelling like shit and tallow. Here's a little thing about grease. You kind of need soap to separate it out. Or at least hot enough water to boil it off. Yeah, you're just soaking it in grease water. You're like, now your grease is evenly coated. Go stand near the fireplace, baby. What? Now you have soup. I want some long pork. You say now you have soup. Yeah, they don't sound like they're doing real well. Maybe shirt soup is all they had.

I call it hot ham water. So, yeah, the boys are the smelly kids. They smell like pig. They smell like shirt soup. They smell like living pig. They smell like shirt soup. They smell like pig fat and blood and pig shit. I'd like to think that I wasn't a bully, but I think I would have bullied these kids. I'm just throwing it out there.

Most of the way through school, they fly under the radar pretty well. Dave, a little more, because he can talk to humans. Willie, not really that into it. Willie's not so... What did he talk to? Certified weirdo, bro. Certified weirdo. I would have talked to him. I don't know. You couldn't get close enough. At school, the kids began to call Willie names. One name in particular stood out. Question number two. What nicknames do the kids at school give Willie? Is it A, smelly poo? B, pig farts? C, stinky piggy? Or D, smelly swine?

Smelly poo, pig farts, stinky piggy, or smelly swine. Ashley says, Stinky Piggy. And so does Dustin. Give him both points. 250 points to the interview because he became known as Stinky Piggy. How fucking cute, dude. I didn't know we were going to do multiple choice. I made my own up. I said Wiggly Piggly. Wiggly Piggly. You're pretty close. But I won two zero points for your original answer. So everybody gets 250. 250 for everybody. So yes, he became known as Stinky Piggy. His brother didn't have much of an easier time, but he didn't land a sweet fucking nickname like that. So Dave's ability to actually talk to people gave him a slight advantage. Nevertheless, there were many days that the boys would pretend to go to school and hide under their beds in a day of silence.

So, like, look, I did my fair share of not going to classes I was supposed to go, but I, like, hung out at Jared and Curtis' house because their parents weren't there. I didn't, like, hide under my bed, nose to the bottom of it, just like, I'm just going to lay here for seven hours. That's fine. Your brother laying on the other side of the room. Shut the fuck up. If you get us in trouble, I will take your fucking ass. Also, just imagine your mom's walking through the house just talking mad shit on her kids the whole day. Finally, those dirty ass kids are gone. God, they fucking smell. I'm going to take a shower. They don't even know we have running water. Today, those are called mental health days. I was just going to say, I don't see anything wrong with taking a day off and spending it in complete silence. I'm down with that. From under the bed? Well, wherever it feels comfortable. You know how some people need weighted blankets to be comfortable? I feel like that's the same kind of thing. Who are you calling out, Greg? Myself? I don't know the thing. Sick self-burn. Me too. Those are rare.

I don't necessarily know that they were comfortable as much as they just didn't want to get called Stinky Piggy and like poked in the face. No, I know. Just trying to put a positive spin on their shit life. Yeah, I get it. Don't worry about it. You don't need to. However, due to having a mother who prioritized the real pigs over her Stinky Piggies and a father who was so highly abusive yet incredibly absent despite being present all of the time. So, you know.

Write that one down. Wait, so he's there, but just not engaging. He's there always. Not engaging unless he's kicking their ass. And the mom's there and cares about the pigs more. Oh, yeah. She doesn't give a shit about this. Well, I can tell you this right now. Kids don't make you money, but pigs will. It's true. Yeah, they're farmhands. They wake up in the morning. They slop the pigs. They come home from school. They slop the pigs. They do the work on the farm. If I'm not mistaken, they grew like...

pumpkins and some other stuff out there, too, so they do some other agriculture. Dang, dude, you just start feeding the pigs cinnamon, nutmeg, and pumpkins, and then you can have your pumpkin spice bacon at the end of the year. That fucks, dude. Yeah, dude, I'm down for that. I don't care how basic bitch I am. Pumpkin spice is delicious, and you can all shut the fuck up. Yeah, I don't give a shit about pumpkin spice, but I can sell that. Bacon pumpkin spice latte? Sell that and get a house that doesn't just have a giant doggy door. You at least get a one-season run on it, okay? Starbucks is going to steal that shit, huh? Yo, pumpkin spice bacon sandwich. I said it first. So, let's see. Willie is...

not really doing so well in school. So if you can imagine that, the kid who would rather hide under a bed all day than go to school showed a low aptitude for education. He floated through school, mostly unnoticed, other than his stench. He worked hard on the farm and did odd jobs around the farm and in town. He saved what little money he could to get a special little treat for himself. Question number three. What did he purchase with that money? Was it A, a motorcycle, B, a calf, C, a butcher's toolkit, or D, his own shed? I'm so moving out of here. Motorcycle, calf, butcher's toolkit, his own shed.

Both of you say a butcher's toolkit. You guys look so stupid right now. Because with his money, he was able to buy his own calf. You little baby. He was for calf. Sick of being a pig farmer. I'm going to go be a cow farmer. He was for calf. Listen, it's not that endearing for long. Because he was able to buy his own calf and became very close to it. At this point, he's fairly young. He's like 10 or 11. He's maybe early teens. And he loves this cow like someone would love a dog. And he comes home after school. He dotes upon the cow. He spends a lot of time with it. His brother even said he might have talked to the cow. I talk to my dog all the fucking time. So I get this.

It's almost like he finally found someone that returned the love that he wanted to give because his mom wasn't doing that shit. His dad wasn't doing that. And, you know, like, he finally found an outlet for that. One day after a particularly shitty day at school, Willie could not find his calf and asked his mother where it was. His mother very harshly told him to check the barn for no reason other than to possibly torture her son because when he arrived to the barn, he saw his calf had been slaughtered by his father. It was hanging from one of the racks just as Willie walked it. No. No. Uh-uh. Fuck yeah, bro. No. I mean, like, that makes the end of Old Yeller sound like a nice book.

And the calf hadn't even grown to cow size. No. And he spent all his money on it. It was his thing to deal with. It was his thing to take care of. It was his little buddy. That's exactly it. His dad didn't have a right to do anything. No, but they did. I get where this is going. Oh, you think? You think you know? No, I don't. Well, I'll tell you one thing. There's going to be some murders involved. I figured. Helen Smith, a forensic psychologist, said that losing the calf could have been a large turning point for Willie that even could have had such a negative effect that Willie believed... Fucking goddamn, I'm a terrible writer and reader. She believes that this was such a negative point in Willie's life that he would no longer completely believe in humans or trust them anymore.

It crushed him completely. Like, yeah, if my dad killed my dog, it'd probably be the same. But imagine if your dad killed your dog, took all the good meat out of it, put the rack and rib up, hung it up in front of you. It was just like, yeah, look, it's right there. What do you mean, where's your dog? It's right here, man. Enjoy. And then beat the shit out of you and then not talk to you for two months. Was that what happened next? No, that's just like how his dad was. He was just like either abusive or not talking to him. That's so sad. That's life. It's almost like he didn't stand a chance. Yeah? Yeah, correct. I say that a lot. So, yeah, listen.

Again, if you were to hear that your parent killed your pet, it might ruin you forever. If you were to hear that your parent killed your pet, and then you also just saw that pet separating delicious beef patties and steaks. Yeah, I was going to say, we're forced to eat that pet. Yeah, I'm going to eat it. I mean, I understand, like, the chickens. Like, if people know, like, they get raised, so, you know, they tell them, you know, these chickens are going to feed us, they give us eggs, and then eventually we'll eat the chicken. I understand being raised like that. Yeah, exactly. I can hear all the country kids right now being like, obviously, you never grew up on a farm. You just eat the animals on the farm. Like, I get that. Yeah, he did not buy this calf for that purpose. Yeah, this was not a family purchase. I'd be like, where the fuck is dinner at? Yeah. Of course.

That's because you can't form emotional bonds. So listen, in 1963, at the age of 14, he quit school unexpectedly to nobody, honestly. Nobody was surprised. And took a full-time apprenticeship. Could this be a possible way for him to get away from his family, or would he dive deeper into his family business? Question number four. What industry did Willie get a full-time apprenticeship in? Was it A, as a butcher? That's the obvious answer, guys. Was it B, as a welder? C, construction? Or D, a plumber? What's that?

A. Butcher. B. Welder. C. Construction. D. Plumber. A plumber is somebody who plows with wood. I mean, you can't. It will get you nowhere to have the same answer as him. It's not going to help you make up any ground. Put down the answer you want. Do it right now. Okay, Dustin's got his. Ashley, you do whatever answer you want. I don't want to influence your answer at all.

Okay. Ashley says D. Dustin says A. So that's plumber for Ashley. Butcher for Dustin. It was the obvious answer. It was a butcher. Yes, he became a butcher's apprentice and proved to be very good at this job. Almost as if he had some type of natural skills. It was a four sign. Is that another 250 to Dustin? That's another 250 points to Dustin. Just give me 500. No.

Let me have a fighting camp. We'll just put the word win, please. So yes, Willie became a picture's apprentice. He's very good at it. Oddly good at it for someone so new to it. Things start to seem like almost normal for him for a moment, for a while. He did this job for some time while still balancing his farm work along with his apprenticeship because he's still needed at the farm as his mother reminded him nearly daily that it was his responsibility to keep the farm going after they were gone. What a fucking great mom. Like, hey, listen, I know you got a job, but after I'm gone, who's going to run the farm?

The person who slaughtered my fucking pet. Yeah. That too. I would be like, I'm going to slaughter all your pigs. If they're from Canada, why should she sound like she's from Jersey? Because she had a terrible squealy voice. Because that's how everybody sounds when they become like that. You've got to run this farm! When you have a lot of hate in your heart, you start sounding like you're from New Jersey. So let's see, on October 16th, 1967, Willie had another moment where he learned something from his mother. His brother, Dave Pickton, had just got his license and took the family truck out for a spin. It is unclear if this incident was an accident or a purposeful act of hate, but according to Willie, Dave accidentally struck a neighbor boy with a truck.

He stopped and saw that the boy was hurt very badly, and he knew he couldn't do anything to immediately help, so he goes home and tells his mom about what happened. Question number five. Louise Pickton went down to where the boy was hit. What did she do? Did she A, drive him to help immediately? B, shoot him in the head? C, call 911? Or D, push him into a ditch nearby? Drove him for help, shot him in the head, called 911, pushed him into a ditch. Dustin says, call 911. Ashley says, pushed him into a ditch nearby.

She immediately advised Dave to take the truck to the garage and have it repaired, and then she went to where she was told the boy would be, and there he was, a boy very near her boy's age, and she recognized him as one of the neighbor's sons. She knew the boy was still living, but would not make it unless he got immediate help and would likely die. So Louise Pickton went back home, got the phone. No, I'm just kidding. She pushed him into a nearby ditch, gave out 250 points. The boy, who could not move due to his injuries, went into the ditch, which happened to be filled with about two feet of water, in which the boy would eventually drown.

The boy was discovered two days later. Want to take back that celebration? I know. I shouldn't have said woo. I felt really bad about that. It's really hard to say woo in the show and ever sound like it's good in context. It's tough. It's tough. I felt really bad about that one. I just want to beat Dustin. At Helical Smash. Check her out. It's on the screen. He always wins.

So what's the score right now? 750 to 500, Dustin. There's nine questions left, or ten. And a drawing. No, drawing can be if it's a tie at the end. And it might not be drawing. We'll see. It could be. We've got to make it at a tiki tag. I'm making it charades. Yeah, she said, take the truck down, get it repaired. Like, fucking now, please. Also, stay the fuck out of my hair. I've got to push this kid into a ditch and brown his bitch ass. So the boys discovered two days later, and although it seemed as if it should be pretty clear that the Pictons were involved, everybody was cleared of any wrongdoing, and the incident was deemed an accident by police.

In 1970, Willie quit his apprenticeship to work full-time back on the farm, where he claims that he was only six months away from becoming a full-time butcher and could have taken a job doing it anywhere. But due to his family, he would be guilted into the farm being his only option. It was said that he felt more safe at home, so this arrangement worked for him. He was the only one really left to do work anyway, because Dave was kind of out doing his own shit, because he's like talking to humans, you know, able to do that. And Willie was also very connected to his mother, despite all that had happened and how she treated him. He continued the normal farm work, as well as adding one task, where he would go to auctions, buy livestock that were ready to be slaughtered, and do just that.

he was no longer forming bonds with animals. You know, he's buying them. Would he save them or what? Oh, that's not. He was buying them and cutting them up real good. Like he's, he's not trying to form any sort of bonds anymore. But is he, but is he like cutting them up and eating them, cutting them up? Okay. So that's, that's not that weird. I'm not saying that it's weird. I'm saying this was his new job. That he did this, but yes, exactly. That's what I guess I meant by like the traumatizing thing was like before he was involved in the slaughter business.

He watched his, or not watched, saw his calf buddy get slaughtered. So it seems like a weird, being a butcher and then coming back. Yeah, I don't know. He goes into his dark moments. Therapy. Yeah, yeah, I guess. All the slaughtering work would take him to a rendering plant called West Coast Reduction outside of downtown Vancouver. They took all of the parts of the animal that wasn't used as food by the farms and turned it into other things like gelatin, dog and cat food, and farm animal food. Fucking West Coast Reduction. They're the guys that pimp your calf. Like, they just, like, put TVs in your cow and stuff.

We heard you like milk, so we put udders in your udders, so you can udder while you udder. Yo, dog, we heard you like milkshakes, so we put a freezer system inside your cow so you can just get milkshakes straight from the cow. Yeah, milk waterfall going down his back. No, that's, no, don't drink that. So, during his trips to West Coast Reduction, it brought him very near downtown Vancouver, like I said, specifically a neighborhood called Low Track that was called by the documentary, quote, the biggest concentration of human misery that exists in the developed world.

So if you're looking for your next vacation destination, check out downtown Vancouver. This is the gathering place for sex workers, drug addicts, criminals, and homeless. Willie would go and find women who look to be the most desperate and try to get with them. These are sex workers. He's not just going and picking up chicks here. But he would often claim that he wanted to get them off drugs and save them. I don't really go into all of his murders because there's quite a few, but one of his things was he would save a woman to get her off drugs, and then the second she would get back on drugs, he would feel justified in killing her. Wouldn't he feed them meat?

That's how you can catch me. That's absolutely how you'd catch me, a little fan that says free meat. Just a guy handing out cold cuts. Open your mouth. Let me throw the salami right at your face.

Yes, that's what Willie picked in from Port Coquitlam, Canada. You want some free meat? Come and get it, kids. I got a vegetable peeler. I'm just slicing it off. You got that bacon? I'll be right there. It's cooked too, kids. You won't get sick. So yeah, you guys, look, I don't know if downtown Vancouver still got a real fucked up spotlight low track, but at this time, I think I have another quote in here too from like a local newspaper that describes it as very...

A very bad place to be, eh? So, Willie would go there, he'd find women that looked most desperate, he'd try to save them, and, you know, felt justified in his deal. A few years later, 1978, Willie's father's gonna die of old age. Didn't seem to bother Willie too much because, you know, the abuse and the absenteeism. However, the following year, his mother would quickly grow sick of cancer and die. Yeah, she got sick of it.

That's terrible writing, Jessie. She got cancer, got sick with it, and died. Despite her being terrible to him most of his life, Willie loved her dearly and took the loss very hard. They were like, Mrs. Picton, you've got cancer. She was like, I'm sick of it. No, well, they really loved each other usually when one died. She died of a broken heart. It was fucking cancer of the heart. Why can't you get that? It's all the free meat she ate.

So yeah, the farm was left to the three children, and this would provide a pretty good amount of income to Willie for the rest of his free life. Linda, their sister, sold her share of the farm to Willie and Dave, and Will ran the day-to-day on the farm and lived there for a while in the basement on the property. Dog, he graduated to Will? Dude, I call him Big Willie, Will, Will Dog. I call him Robert sometimes. Yeah, Willie Piggy, Little Piggy, Stinky Piggy. So he lived in the basement on the property. It would flood and get all fucking gross, and then the water would just clear out, and he would just move right back in.

And then finally, it got so gross that he bought a trailer and put it very back into the property. And that's where he lived. And it should be mentioned, too, that Willie is very sheltered throughout his life. He didn't really watch TV. Because he's like, wake up, do farm work, go to school, come home, do farm work, go to your work as an apprenticeship, come home, do farm work, sleep, wake up, do farm work. But why didn't he want to live in the house because of the mom and the dad? Because it was full of pig shit. Oh, because it was dirty. Trust me, that was not an issue for him. No, because other people lived there and worked there. It's a fully operational business. And he would hire someone and be like, oh, you can live here, too.

He just wanted to be out of the way. Yeah, I don't think it was out of the way as much as he didn't want to be near anybody. He wanted to be a distance. Secluded. Yes, and he didn't even actually drink alcohol or even soda too often. He just smelled like a pig farm. Fucking square, dude. And did fairly innocent shit until in 1980, he goes into downtown Vancouver and picks up a girl and immediately gets violent. Later, the working girl said that almost as soon as she got in the car, he became violent and raped her. He took her to a parking lot, threw her out, and drove off. She never reported it due to her line of work.

For now, this seems like it's going to quench the thirst of Willie's rage. It is over the next few years that Willie will be running the farm and is humming a ride along. In addition to the income he is getting from the farm's operations, he's additionally selling off lots of the 40 acres at an incredible profit, netting he and Dave a great deal of money. All right, question number six. At the time of his arrest, how much is Willie Picton worth? This is Canadian dollars, but still. CAD. This is CAD. At the time of his arrest, how much is Willie Picton worth? He himself. And this is like liquid assets. Willie spent money, but he saved money.

So it's not like money on paper. This is after he was selling parts of the land, right? Yeah, this is like when he's arrested his total wealth. In 1980. We're going to kind of cover it. No, when he's arrested. At the time of his arrest, how much is Willie Picken worth? Dustin says $5 million. Ashley says $30,000.

Technically, Ashley's closer because it was 2.3 million, which makes her like 2.2 million off and you're like 2.7. I knew it was a million. Yeah, yeah. I win. So Ashley's going to get 250 points because he's worth about 2.3 million CAD at the time of his rest. That's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot of money, man. And that's like what he had chilling. That's not his hodl. He got a lot of money. He's probably the richest serial killer. That locks the game up, too. You're both tied at 750. 750. We've got eight questions to go. Plenty of time, guys. And I think there are one or two more where only one of you are going to score.

Let's go. Yes, Willie's share of the money over everything is about $2.3 million. Willie buys a small trailer, lives on an isolated part of the property, and realizes now that his parents are gone and he's got his own trailer. He can do pretty much whatever he wants. At this point, he is working in the farm by day and trolling low track by night. By 1996, we are now talking about a millionaire, Willie Pickton, and some coincidence...

Some coincidences start to happen. Multiple women begin to go missing from the Low Track neighborhood, and Willie also, as well as cruising Low Track, became quite the mover and shaker at a local establishment. Question number seven. What was the establishment called at which Willie became well-known? Was it A, the Heartbreak Inn, B, the Vancouver Vagabond, C, the Astoria Hotel, or D, Mike's Bar and Motel? That one sounds classy. Mike's Bar and Motel does sound like a good time. The Heartbreak Inn, the Vancouver Vagabond, the Astoria Hotel, or Mike's Bar and Hotel? Both of them say the Astoria Hotel.

And both of them will score. The Astoria Hotel is a bar. I totally did it first. He knows I did it first. I don't know shit. Willie would go there and just, you know, he's literally a millionaire at this time. So he would go with like wads of hundreds. Like, ah, drinks for everybody. And that was like how Willie sort of broke out of his shell. He had money and was like, ah, bitch. Yo, dude, that smelly guy's buying drinks. Everybody get in here quick. Smelly's buying drinks. So, yes. And for him, it gave him like newfound power. It gave him newfound confidence. It made him realize what he could do with the money.

So he's got now a lot of new friends. And to him, they're like super special, great, amazing people. And pretty much everybody else in his life is like, yeah, they were fleecing him. They were taking everything they can get and getting out of there. Yeah, exactly. They knew he had money, so they'd come use him as hard as they could and get out when they were done. And there was even one woman who was like, yeah, you know, I used to work a job doing $20 a day. Willie offered me a job making almost $100 a day. So then my $15 a day crack habit. Yeah, my $15 a day crack habit turned into an $80 a day crack habit. And that'll give you a little bit of an idea of the kind of people that. Turned into a $160 a day cocaine habit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was flush with cash for a bit.

We'll take a break right here, and we'll come back. We'll get into the rest of the story, but yeah. Great. We're kind of at a point where Willie is reaching a high point, personality-wise, confidence-wise, and he's realizing, oh, you just had to be rich, and that's it. All right, sick. Yeah, I can't wait for the rest of it. Yeah, so Astoria Hotel, he's blowing up there. We'll come back. We'll get into the rest of the story after that. Come back, or we'll kill you. I was looking at you. Oh, me? Can't see, because you have your back. Oh, yeah, no, I'm fine. Sick. Do it, do the thing. All right, welcome back, everybody, to episode 109, I think.

We just talked about how Willie has learned that money equals bitches. He was a rapper before rappers. Yeah, exactly. He's going to this bar. I think it started as like, hey, I want to buy a round. He told the bartender. He didn't tell anybody else. He saw the positive reaction it got. It was like, hey, I'm going to buy a round. It became the guy everybody wanted to hang out at the Astoria Hotel with. He had friends. He had what he perceived as power. He started hanging out with some Hell's Angels, I guess. He was affiliated with some pretty hard people. When you are in...

you know, like a group of people like that, the ability to appear is terrifying or appear that you have a group of people. Like, look, it's no coincidence. Three of my best friends were giant monsters when we were younger. It just looks great when you're walking up to a group of motherfuckers and just go like... Yeah. See these three freaking sequoias I got with me? Hell's Angels back then, too, were not a club. They were real. They said they were real. You're just all of a sudden going to hear, and our fucking garage door's going to crash in in 20 minutes because they heard us. That's cool. I've seen that episode of South Park. I know exactly how to deal with them. Oh, God. So yeah, women love him. Men want to be him. And his newfound money came, newfound power, and a realization of what he could do. And nobody wants to smell like it. Yeah. So it was later said that almost all people who were friends with Willie were fleecing him. We kind of talked about that a little bit, too.

Willie, at this point, is kind of getting sick of having to spend all of his time and money in the Astoria, so he and his brother Dave come up with an idea. The Picton brothers gradually neglected the farm's operations, and they registered a non-profit charity that they would use to party. Question number eight. What did they call their non-profit? Was it A, Helping Hands, B, The Good Butcher, C, Porkchop Partners, or D, Piggy Palace Good Time Society? Helping Hands, The Good Butcher, Porkchop Partners, or Piggy Palace Good Time Society? I can tell you now.

You know what you want it to be. I know what I want it to be. And I know which one sounds absolutely preposterous. Well, tell me what, Greg, tell me what you want it to be. Well, I want it to be all of them. I want them to all be facets of one name. I want it to be the Helping Hands, Good Butcher, Pork Chop Partners, Piggy Palace, Good Time Society. All of them. Greg, it was a trick question and you get the points. Still the best guest in history. Dustin said, How many points you got, Greg? One million. All of them. You said Pork Chop Partners? No. See? I said Helping Hands. Oh, Helping Hands. So did Ashley.

Y'all are boring. But they registered their non-profit organization for which they could party under the name Piggy Palace Good Times Society. No points for anybody. That was my second choice. This was 1996 when they put the name in officially with the Canadian government, aiming to, quote, organize, coordinate, manage, and operate special events, functions, dances, shows, and exhibitions on behalf of service organizations, sports organizations, and other worthy groups. It's a little wordy, but we got it, all right? Piggy Palace Good Times Society.

I like to think that one of them was just like, yo, make the name long and stupid and nobody's going to question it. And what about our mission statement? Longer, stupider. What other type of organizations can you fit in there? Was he still a butcher at this point? Yeah, so I mean, they're kind of like letting a lot of the shit on the farm go. I don't want to spoil this for you, Dustin, but he's a serial killer. He never really stops being a butcher. What? So not really. He is a slaughterhouse operator. He was a butcher's apprentice for like six and a half months. And that was his whole goal, was to become a butcher and move off the farm. But he got kind of guilted to coming back like six months before he was like...

done with his apprenticeship, you know? That was in one of his audio journals. He was like, I was only six months away from going to be a butcher wherever I wanted to. And, you know, that was his whole thing. And another thing, too, is he said he was supposed to join the army and his mom told him, like, nope, you gotta run the farm. I'm going to army, mother. I'm going to army, mother. I feel like it's kind of like a...

mean thing, too, to call it the Piggy Palace because he was like, I'm over this whole pig thing. Yeah. And I'm over this. But everybody's got to find your niche, you know. Yeah, your niche. So the Piggy Palace Good Time Society gets into full swing. It includes raves, wild parties featuring Vancouver sex workers and gatherings in a converted slaughterhouse. So they took an old slaughterhouse, turned it into like the club. And that's Piggy Palace Good Time Society. That's where everybody partied. Seinfeld did it. Yeah. So in addition to all of this, there was occasionally cockfighting at night as well for the local, you know.

What do we want to call them? Just in the mid-room. No, it was, you know, like they did everything, including... That's right, that's sword fighting. Cockfighting. So we're all the cocks hanging out. Roosters. So these events attracted sometimes as many as 2,000 people. Again, since Willie was friends with him, Hell's Angels were known to frequent the farm due to Willie liking to be associated with anyone that made him appear scarier and more tough. I'm not going to lie to you. I feel like Canadian Hell's Angels should just be called Hex Angels. Hey.

During the height of Piggy Palace's notoriety, Willie was charged with the attempted murder of a sex worker named Wendy. Ooh, she got away. So police were already familiar with the Picton Brothers, and David had been convicted of a sexual assault in 1992 and was given 30 days probation, and Piggy's Palace was a frequent source of police calls. Like, these guys are not off the radar by any means. They're both, like, very... They got a fucking raging, like, party site that's supposed to be a farm. And, you know, it's, like, you know how it works. Like, if you have a farm property...

and it's designated as a farm with the government, same in Canada as it is here, you have to be doing a farm there. You can't just be like, no, we just party here now. It just doesn't work like that. And that's kind of what they're doing. So, the police are there always. Wendy's story came as no surprise to the police when she gets it, but they weren't sure exactly what to believe her as her reputation was not exactly glowing. However, she claims that on March 23rd, 1997, she had been working on the corner of Princess and Cordova when Willie pulled up in a red pickup truck and asked her how much she charged for sex. She quoted him $40, but Willie upped the offer to $100 if she went home to his farm in Port Coquitlam. Wow, that's really cheap. Yeah, I mean, it's the 80s too, so, you know, convert it. That's like a week's worth. Yeah.

Taking nearly the triple going rate, she cautiously agreed, despite the farm being nearly 30 minutes outside town. The only reason she agreed was Willie's willingness to pay extra and a promise that he'd have her back on her corner in 90 minutes so she could get the rest of her night's work in. She agreed to this. Arriving at Picton's trailer, she noticed that it was a mess, a pigsty, as she described it. Called it. Totally called it. Called it out. One thing she noticed was a large butcher's knife on the kitchen table. The two retired to a bedroom, the bedroom, I should say, and Wendy delivered on what Willie had ordered.

We all can imagine. Fairly standard operation as of right now, right? How much? It's this much? Normally, you got to fucking go do it in an alley. It's pretty transactional. We don't need to bring ink and paper into this, but, you know, it's an official transaction. Here's your receipt for your donut. So, she kind of gets there. She's a little freaked out by the butcher's knife, but then she's like, oh, I'm like, look where I am. Of course there would be a butcher's knife. It's in the kitchen. Well, and it's like on a pig farm, and this guy runs the slaughterhouse. It's like going to...

It's like going to a baseball player's house and be like, well, why is that baseball bat leaning against the wall, dude? What the fuck is that all about? Yeah, there you go. That's a good way. What were you going to say, Greg? Let's go with that. No, I had one. I was just debating before I finished. Oh, I see. I saved him then. Yeah. Saved me some editing. The two then exchanged pleasantries after they exchanged pleasantries. Picton paid her $100 and five $20 bills. Afterwards, she had her back turned while going through a phone book to call the hotel at which her John stayed.

She's like, thanks for the money, bro. I'm going to call the hotel. I'm going to get my ride out of here. You don't need to trip out. Give me a ride back. I got this handle. And she says while she's doing this, she could feel Picton behind her. She spun around and Picton grabbed her arm, slapping a handcuff around her left wrist. So this is a direct quote from Wendy. I leave last names out. You should. Quote, then I just started fighting him.

And then the first thing I remembered was the knife on the kitchen table. So as I was fighting him, I was like going backwards so I could get to this knife. And then I reached for the knife. And then I leaped at him. I slit his throat. And I remember him grabbing a rag and going, you fucking bitch, you got me good. And then put the rag on his neck. And then he had a big old long stick. And I remember him just picking up plants, everything he can get a hold of and throwing it at me. And I throw it back at him.

so the first thing she did is and she did she got not deep oh she did it was fucking deep i didn't see cuts or anything but from what the story says and we'll see here okay she actually got him a couple times really good um so they they the fight goes outside and she literally is like i black out i don't even know how we got eventually the fight is outside Willie follows her, bleeding heavily. They fight again, but this time Willie gets the upper hand, gets the butcher's knife from her and stabs her twice in the stomach. He then begins to feel woozy from his loss of blood and stumbles back inside, having his throat cut, his cheek cut open, and it was so deep through there that she had cut part of his jawbone and teeth off. Holy shit. Yeah. The feeling that that gave me when you said that, like the absolute...

shutter to my very core. Like, so think the knife kind of came in like this way down, sliced open the cheek and like cut through this thin layer of bone and took a couple of teeth with it. I fucking hate that so much. And think, we're talking about like a butcher's knife on a slaughterhouse owner. Like, you know that shit was just the sharpest thing that could have ever existed. Hit the teeth and took the teeth out. It didn't pull them out. Okay, this is a piece of bone, right? Yeah. It cut through the cheek and cut the top of the bone off with a couple teeth. Like sheared it. Yeah.

So, yeah. So, Wendy escaped and ran down the driveway to the road and flagged down a passing car. She said that while she did this, she had to hold in her own intestines from the stab wounds that Willie had inflicted upon her. When someone finally pulled over to help, she got in the back seat and told them, quote, if I don't make it, that is the farm of the man who did this to me, pointing to the Picton farm. When she arrived at the hospital, she was not in a great way, but the driver of the car that picked her up told them about Willie. Police were sent to Picton's property and he was found in his trailer in a puddle of his own blood. He was taken to the hospital and also treated and would recover.

At the initial onset, he's going to be charged with attacking Wendy despite his story that he did it in self-defense as she tried to rob him after seeing money on the table. So right here is like, this is their story. She's like, yes, I did a job for him. Whatever. Yeah, I did that. But he tried to fucking kill me afterwards for whatever reason. And he's like, yeah, right. I brought her over. I was going to use a sex worker. Sue me for it. And she saw money on the table and she tried to fucking rob me. So that's their two stories. It's still highly illegal. It's not legal at all there. Back then? Nope. Not even close. That's why it's like...

only happening in the seediest part of low track. And that's why there's not like, they're trying to like, uh, maybe, maybe not this happened. Yes. And that's exactly, I mean, that's gonna, that's almost gonna continue here because, um, He goes to the hospital. She goes to the hospital. He's initially charged with attacking Wendy. He says self-defense when she tried to rob him. Willie's going to hire the most high-profile and expensive lawyer that he could find and send some of his Hells Angels friends over to intimidate Wendy. Oh, no. Due to all of this, she would not show up to court and Willie would never be charged because his plea of self-defense would be accepted because she never showed up. So he gets off. Probably twice. Boo. A few months later.

A few months later, the Pictons were sued by Port Coquitlam officials for violating zoning ordinances. That's what we're talking about. You run a farm, you gotta fucking run a farm. You don't get to run a fucking rave slaughterhouse now. The raver house. Yes. They're continuing to have these rangers that are disruptive and sometimes violent. They're neglecting the agriculture for which the land had been zoned and having, quote, altered a large farm building on the land for the purpose of holding dances, concerts, and other recreations. So they have this still very large piece of land in which agriculture is going by the wayside. Why?

Because they like to party. Because it's fun. This is the 90s, right? We're about 97, early 98. So it only takes about a year for them to really start falling on the shitty side of everybody's opinion. So question number nine. What did the Picton brothers do about the legal pressure that they were getting from the Canadian government over the zoning ordinances? Is it A? Ignore it.

B, get the ag in order, but continue to fucking party. You know, like, look, hey, all right, it's together. Get the fuck out of here. Let's go. Or do they file to remove agriculture from their land's use ordinance? They're like, ah, fuck it. We're just, hey, can you put down fucking rage party central for our ordinance, bitches? Or do they, D, fix the farm and go back to life as normal without the Piggy Palace? Because, like, you know, they are still rich guys, and they want to probably continue doing that. They, A, ignore it. B, get the ag in order to continue the party, file to remove agriculture from their land's use, or fix the farm and go back to life as normal without the Piggy Palace.

Dustin says, get the ag in order, but continue to rage. And so does Ashley. And together... We lose. They will score no points. Because the Picton brothers fully ignored the pressure from the officials and held a 1998 New Year's party, after which they were faced with an injunction banning future parties. Okay, so yes, the Pictons ignored the pressure from the officials and held a 1998 New Year's party. So yeah, I don't give a fuck. Wicked. The police are now authorized to arrest and remove any person attending future Piggy Palace Good Time Society events at the farm. So essentially...

They're like, yeah, all right, do it. And anybody who shows up, we're arresting them, period. That's how it's going to happen now. Yeah, try us. Yeah, and so despite their best efforts at hiding it, the society's nonprofit status was removed the following year for inability to procure statements of financial or anything to subsequently prove that they were actually being a nonprofit society. After they could not prove any of this, they were disbanded. I mean, that's pretty fair, right? Hey, we're running this nonprofit society over here. All right, cool. Can we just check out your financial statements? We don't have any. We don't turn a profit, dude. Did you not hear what I just said? Yeah, I feel like that's what a lot of people do to this day.

That's pretty gross. Look at you, Susan G. Komen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, same thing. All cancer societies ever. But yes, we give 1% of your donation to cancer.

Look that up. If you donate to something, look up how much is going to the cause of what you're donating to because there might be a better place to be giving it. There's a website I can't remember that has a tracker that tells you. We'll find the website and we'll put it somewhere for you guys if you're curious because for sure, if you're giving to one of the bigger ones, you are giving nothing to anything but like leasing giant office buildings. I was going to say the CEO of Susan G. Komen clears like $650,000 a year. Yeah, non-profit. So people got to get paid. But hey man, the NFL wears pink during October. Not anymore. So...

If you watch the documentary surrounding the farm and Willie, especially the newer one, I'm not going to scroll all the way back up, but I believe it was called The Pig Farmer or whatever, you kind of get an idea of the people that are hanging out around the farm. A lot of missing teeth. A whole lot of missing teeth. Is it like watching The Wild and Wonderful Whites of West Virginia? Yeah. It's a good show. It's a great movie. That's amazing. Great documentary. I don't know what that is, but I'm assuming that, yes, that's exactly what that is. It is great. There are some pretty, I mean, there are people you can tell we're just like down on their luck and you can see like later, they're like clearly doing better. And there are some people that they're interviewing where you're like, oh.

Didn't make it out. It's 2018 when this documentary came out and you didn't make it out. That's too bad. So not really like a lawful bunch, I don't think. Not a lot of really good opinions about the people you see on the Picton property. So one of these men was named Andy Bellwood. Now, I will say that Andy Bellwood seems like one of the ones that turned his life around and is at least a fairly normal dude now. But by his own admission, Willie and he became rather close rather fast. And one night they were hanging out and Willie suggested to Andy that they go and get a sex worker.

Andy's like, nah, nah, son, that's not my style. Or maybe it is, but it's not when I'm hanging out with you. Saturdays are for the boys, not for the boys and girls. So Willie then goes over to the bed and begins to describe and pantomime for Andy what he does when a woman is in his trailer, including the sex, strangling, and handcuffing, and then eventual removal of their body to the pig-slaughtering area. The following day, Willie realizes his mistake and sends a few of his tough friends over to Andy's place, who accuse him of stealing tools from Willie and rough him up pretty good while telling him never to come back.

Andy knew that he hadn't stolen, but took this as his sign to not get involved any further with Willie. So, hold on. Go ahead. Yeah, this guy's pantomiming, like, fucking and murdering and then feeding somebody to pigs, right? It's a confession, correct? So, yeah, essentially, let me really quickly, because Willie's M.O. is going to be exactly that. He's going to...

feed whatever he can to the pigs. The pigs won't eat everything, but they'll eat a lot of it. And then what he does is he takes everything else and takes it to the pork rendering plant. So all that dog food. I mean, it's like mainly like gelatin. It's cosmetic products. The gelatin they use in cosmetic products. It's dog food. It's cat food. It's farm animal food. It's used for filler. And it's, you know, it's generally just not, it's just enough nutrients in it to be considered. Yeah. And so they don't sponsor this show. I'll take some nuggies for every episode.

So Willie's MO was mainly that he would remove their hands, feet, and head, feed what he could to the pigs, get rid of the rest. Hands, feet, and heads are, like, stinkily human, and everything else isn't. It could all just be pork waste. So he could throw all that away, and he would keep hands, feet, and heads in, like, barrels that were stored in freezers or just down in deep freezes. That's creepy. Yeah, because those were identifiable, you know? And so the rest, he had a very good way of getting rid of at a...

reduction plant that he was known. Hey, Willie, I just got a couple barrels of pork waste for you. Suck it out of the barrels or whatever. So, back to Andy, who they, you know, a couple dudes, I don't know, Hell's Angels, just a couple tough dudes Willie sends over and Andy's like, well, fuck, I don't need to be involved in this. I didn't steal from him. I know that I didn't. So, he kind of gets the idea. Yes, Greg, he pantomimes fucking, pantomimes, murdering. Handcuffing and murdering. Yes, yes. I wonder how he did it, though. How do you just sit there and watch somebody pantomime that shit?

Well, no, no, no. I get how you can pantomime all that stuff. I'll tell you exactly how. It's because Andy was one of the people who were getting things from Willie. He had a cushy job. That's fair. And he was kind of close with him. I mean, as dumb as it sounds, if you and I were hanging out in a room and you did that, I wouldn't be like, Greg, stop that immediately. I'd be like, oh, hey. That was weird. But it would be weird if I was like, hey, dude, let's go get a hooker. And you were like, no. And I was like, really? Because this is what I like to do.

And part of that involved murder. Well, and it would be super awkward to be like, hey, man, come into my bedroom. Let me show you what I do. Well, they were already hanging out. This is like a trailer. So the TV was in the bedroom. I like to get my leg up on the headboard like this. And then after they slit my throat, I like to chase them into the yard. So in 1998, one of Willie's hired hands is Bill Hiscox. All right, let's get the laughs out now. Hiscox. I don't get it. Bill Hiscox. Greg will laugh later.

Bill Hiscox grows concerned after reading a newspaper account of Vancouver's many missing sex workers. This all coupled with the fact that he had noticed that women who visited Picton's farm often went missing afterwards. His cocks knew Pickton often frequented the downtown area looking for girls, and he knew about Robert's 1997 arrest for attempted murder of a sex worker. In addition to this, he told police that he heard from an acquaintance, Lisa, yelled that Pickton had woman's bloody clothing, identification, and personal items all strewn about as trophies inside of his trailer. Bill didn't, like, get in the trailer.

But this woman, Lisa Yelts, who if you just see her dumb face, you'll hate. There might be people out there that share some sympathy for her because she was, like, someone who, like, kind of got strung along by a serial killer. I feel like she kind of just might have known the whole time. But I think you're supposed to feel bad for her, and I generally try to. But she's, like, a childhood friend of Willie. I think she ignored a lot of things. This is what you're getting into when you become friends with a sneaky kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of things going on, and Bill's like, yo, if this is really happening, we need to talk about something. And Bill also, like, went to get paid or something by Willie, and he went right into, like, the front of the trailer and saw a pile of purses.

in Willie's trailer. Sometimes I'd just be stealing those. That's not suspicious. That's not a crime. No, that is a crime. Okay, now I know. I won't do it again. Bill had seen women's purses in a pile of Willie's trailer, but didn't think much of it until he brought it up to Lisa Yelds, who had been friends with Picton since childhood. Yelds agreed with Bill that it was likely that the missing women were going missing at the Picton farm. Bill says after a conversation with Yelds, they agreed that someone should do something, but Yelds was too afraid to do so. So Mr. Hiscox would give his call to the police and send them a tip.

However, as he himself was a recovering drug addict and had a colorful criminal past, the police were apprehensive about believing his story. So again, like Greg was saying, you live on the fringes, you live like this, you are less than human at times to a lot of... I mean, in this story, there's a lot of podcasts, a lot of documentaries that'll just shit all over the police. And like, look, I'm not a cop. I don't know how hard it is. It seems kind of fucking hard. But there are times, like, I have hindsight. And I'm like, what the fuck were you even doing? Yeah, but in such a small town, too. I mean, how many police do you really have if you're out there? Well, see, the thing is, is that this isn't a Fort Coquitlam thing. It's a Vancouver thing. The women are all going missing from Vancouver. So it's like one of the, like, what? Were there like seven big towns in Canada?

total like if that yeah maybe but are these police like oh cool all these ladies of the night are disappearing and hopefully they like got a better life that's exactly it they're like no bodies and like what they okay so they're grown women who left vancouver yeah and you know so we'll kind of get into it a little bit more but yeah that's kind of exactly what's going on so they contact lisa yells after they get bill's story again lifelong friend of willie's she has a lot of information she seemed to have had even more than bill and says like hey i think i've seen a dead body so that's like her I've seen all this stuff, and I've also seen a dead body. When the police questioned her, she denied everything, even going as far as trying to further make his cock seem like a loose cannon. Come on. You cannot be fucking serious. You wrote to make his cock seem like a loose cannon. Come the fuck on. Every time I write something in, it's not funny anymore. You said get the laughs out, and then you set me up with shit like that.

It's called excellent writing. I think it's amazing. Come on. So it works. Police are not able to get a search warrant based completely on only Hiscock's conjecture, let's call it. So it's really at this point that I turned on Lisa throughout reading, throughout the documentary, where I'm like, okay, you know, I'm sympathetic to a point. I don't know what I would do if I thought maybe one of my best friends is a serial killer. You can't put yourself in those shoes until you are there. So I can't say, oh, I try to protect my friend, but I can't say that there wouldn't be a little bit of my mind that's like, well, plausible deniability. Like, I don't get involved. You know, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

But I fucking hated her because her whole thing was like, oh, you know why I didn't tell about all the women that died? I don't like cops. Like, oh yeah, that's your reason? You fucking stupid idiot because you don't like cops? Like, cool.

Cool. Very good reason, Lisa. Or maybe jealousy. I hope I don't get too much shit for this. Is it jealousy, too? Is it jealousy, probably, too? I mean, if she's... I could see this, like, jealousy thing of being like, well, I'm not better than all these girls that died. Like, I don't know. Maybe they were prettier and better, and she's happy that they're dead. I think, to me, it seems like maybe she was more involved than we think. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. That's what I think. There was also another woman who I didn't include, because I wasn't so sure that it was...

what it seemed, but Willie had, like, a woman who would go out, which was not Lisa, and, like, collect women that, you know, like, Willie could hook up with. Yeah. So, again, Bill goes to the police. He's like, yo, fuck, I think there's something going on. The police are like, ah, that's interesting. And can you have anybody else? He's like, yes, Lady Lisa. Lisa's like, I don't like cops, and I ain't saying shit to no cop. Get out of here, pig. Can you smell that? Yeah, it smelled like pig before you got here, but it smells like more pig now. So, yes, her reason is that she doesn't like cops. Had she corroborated his cock story, she could have helped save the lives of an additional 10-plus women.

Oh, you fucking children. You immature. You're just monsters. Sorry, when you say cock. How badly do you want to hear his cock story? Yeah, it's hard. Okay, so by 1999, when others began noticing unusual happenings at Piggy's Palace, and in February of that year, Canadian police received a tip that they weren't sure about. The tip was that Picton had a freezer filled with human flesh. Like, just an anonymous tip. This guy's got fucking dead bodies in a freezer. Click. The police would interview Picton about this, because they can't be like, oh, you said that? We got a search warrant now.

They can't just go out there because someone said that and look around. But they talked to Willie. They actually received his consent to search the farm. But they're like, oh, if he's going to let us search, why do we need to search? All right, thanks, Willie. And then get the fuck out of there. It was a test. It passed. Yeah. So in May of 1999, geographic profiler Kim Rossmo, who had been hired by Vancouver police, noticed an unusual concentration of disappearances in downtown Eastside or low track Vancouver. Now, Kim Rossmo, Kim is a man. Kim Rossmo is fucking kind of a badass. Almost.

perfectly nailed the serial killer they would be looking for. He's got a mass stash of bodies. He's doing this. He's like nailed a ton of things that would pretty much, if they had listened to Kim Ross at the beginning, would have also saved a lot of women's lives. But essentially, Kim Ross was a joke to the Vancouver Police Department. They thought his line of work and the way he did things were just like... That's too bad to see somebody who does good work like that get discredited. Yeah, not only did he get discredited, at the end of 1999, they just fire him. Yeah, you're not really working out here. After not following any of his leads, after not doing anything he says, they just end up... That makes me think that these officers are going to the PP club.

You might be right, about some of them at least. So Kim would take his finding to the superiors, and they dismissed him, rationalizing the women were sex workers and had simply just moved on from downtown Vancouver. Today, we know the Vancouver police recognized sex workers were disappearing at an alarming rate, but knew that in many cases, missing sex workers often turned up decades later alive. And without bodies, there was simply no case to pursue, according to police. That's interesting. Police would even go on record in a televised press conference that they had no evidence of foul play and that any of the women were truly missing.

So they're like, there's no killer. We don't even know that any of these women are missing. Yeah, they're not living in the east side on the streets anymore. They're just up and out of town. There could be, you know, could be. Yeah, and a lot of, I try not to listen to podcasts to prepare, but I had a long road trip. So I listened to the last podcast coverage I really picked in. And Henry had such a good point. He's like, yep, there's nothing like the mover and shakers of the heroin world. Always just getting around all over the place. You never know on the map where they're going to be. They don't just confine a three by three foot square of earth forever. Yeah. It's like, yeah, that kind of makes sense too. That kind of money. So.

Kim Rossmo's information gets the Vancouver police. They fire him in 1999, even though things that he had thought the profile would eventually be quite true of Willie Pickton. It was not until three years later the police would finally get a break in the case on their own after being given two or three solid chances so far in the past decade. Scott Chubb, a man who had worked for the Pickton brothers in 1994. Yeah, that's right. We've got his cock and a Chubb. You know, I just want to go on record before you continue that I was perfectly content letting that one go. I was. I was going to let it go. So acting on information that Chubb provided on February 6, 2002, police executed a search warrant at the farm looking for illegal firearms.

So Chubb tells him, dude, this guy's got a fucking MAC-10 automatic. And so police are like, oh, okay, well, we can move on that. Because, you know, Canada and guns aren't like super. It's not like Americans and guns. Is Canada at that time illegal to have a CCW? I don't know. But I just know that like having a MAC-10 fully automatic weapon was like grounds for even someone saying that. You know, it's like, oh, dead bodies? He's got a weapon. Oh, shit, motherfucker. Yeah. I don't think any law has happened until way later for that stuff.

I'm not sure. We can look that up later. You guys hit up Ashley. You see her name right there. She'll have done the research by the time you guys reach out to her. You know me. If you're using the show for research or education purposes, don't. We're entertainers. I'm sorry. I have stupid questions. No, it's not stupid questions. I told you to ask questions about questions, but I don't have answers to all of them. The police would go through the property, and at this time, police suspect Picton was responsible for the disappearances of nearly 100 Vancouver women. Whether the illegal firearms warrant was used as a means to gain access to the property is unknown. The camera can see you guys.

What is known as the informant's claims of illegal weapons on the property was fabricated and that he would later admit to that. So Scott Chubb made it up so the police could go there and check it out. So from what I know and understand, nothing has come of that. Because, you know, I landed some cool shit, I guess. I don't know. Wait, this guy is still alive? I don't know. That's going to be a question later. That's the last question. Willie was arrested and charged with storing a firearm. Contrary to regulations, he was released a few days later. During the search, police noticed several women's items scattered throughout the home, suspecting the items could belong to the missing Vancouver women. Police placed Picton under surveillance while seeking a second, more extensive warrant. During that time, they blew their surveillance by immediately pulling over Picton when he picked up a young woman. The young woman turned out to be the daughter of one of his good friends, and the story was able to be corroborated. So they're like...

You know, they're watching, all right, only strike if it's an emergency. You know, a girl gets in the car, like, fucking go, go, go, go, go. They get on top of him, and he's like, it's my friend's daughter. And she's like, yeah, my friend's daughter. And, like, they call the mom, and it's totally true. So they totally, they blew their cover, yeah. And then he's like, oh, okay, so they're just watching everything I do now, yeah. So I'm being surveilled. So Picton was just giving the daughter of his friend a ride. Eventually, police obtained a second search warrant as part of the BC Missing Women investigation. So it's at this point that the police are finally admitting, all right.

It's kind of a lot of people that are missing here. He's on the radar. Yeah. So Vancouver's downtown east side also known as low track for the early 80s to 2002 that more than 60 women had gone missing. Centered around the intersection of Maine and Hastings, nicknamed Payne and Wastings. Nice. I was just going to say, is this a fucking frisky dingo bit? What is that? According to a local newspaper. And I like to call it lost wages. Nice. Okay. This is the quote that I like.

According to a local newspaper, Low Track was replete with run-down hotels and pawn shops lined with stained and fractured sidewalks. The area was littered with garbage, used condoms, and discarded hypodermic needles. One-fourth of its residents were infected with AIDS. Home to drug dealers, prostitutes, and pimps, it was Vancouver's neglected Skid Row. That was like the Vancouver Sun-Times. They're talking about their own city. That was their description of it.

So, you know, go out of your way to avoid this area unless you like any of those things. So, working as a part of the BC Missing Women Project, which was created again in 1998 after the police could not deny that there were too many missing sex workers, not long after going on the record of saying, yo, it's all good, baby. Armed with their second warrant, police searched Pickton's home and property, and although Pickton seemed to have the drop on them a lot of the time, because he fucking knew everybody. So it's not like he was, like, in with the police, but, like, he was in with a guy who knew a cop who heard a thing. And so, like, whenever they would stop by, it would always seem like Willie had just cleaned up or, you know. Yeah.

Well, and if you're in with the Hells Angels, you're above the police. Yeah, well, not for long. So again, armed with their second police warrant, they're going to search Picton's home and property. He's always got the drop on him, but fucking not this time. This warrant was served by shock and surprise, leaving Picton no time to clean up or hide anything further. During the search, police found a handbag containing miscellaneous female items, including question number 10. What item did they find that led them to believe they had found the right guy? Was it A, an inhaler?

B, an ID. C, a specific pair of shoes. Or D, a custom wig. An inhaler, an ID, a specific pair of shoes, or a fancy wig. So they found something. They said, what the fuck? I think this connects something here. Dustin said, A. Dustin says, A, an inhaler. Ashley says, C, a specific pair of shoes. What they found in the bag that they thought would connect something was a prescription inhaler belonging to Serena Abbott's way. Now, the reason I put her name in, very important, very pivotal to the case, this inhaler, Serena Abbott's way.

needed the inhaler. Well, no, to me it's more like she is, she did lose her life, but in a way she's the one that kind of helped. She was the catalyst to getting, she's the catalyst to solving the entire crime. Was she the ugly face one? No, that was his friend. Okay. Yeah. She was probably beautiful. A prescription inhaler belonged to Serena Abbott's way, one of Vancouver's missing women. What's that? At least in her soul. Yes. This would be the beginning of the end for Willie, as once he was arrested due to all the evidence like belongings, it would not be long until body parts began showing up in barrels, buried in mud, in freezers, and all over the farm.

Willie has been informed that he is now under arrest for murder due to discoveries at his home. Many people begin to come out and say that they know things about Willie or that they suspected it. Some of them were not reputable types, but others, like Elaine Allen, who ran a program called Wish, the Women's Information Safe House, said she saw many women go missing during her time there, and she felt the whole time like someone was responsible for their disappearances, but could never get anyone to take her story seriously. She never, like, met Willie. She wasn't like, oh, it's Sky Willie, I think. She was just like, holy shit, there are a lot of women going missing, and this happens a lot. There are, like, a few investigative journalists, Elaine, there are, like, two or three police officers who, like, alone would investigate a lot of shit, and, like, there's more to this than it appears. But nothing gets high enough to where they're like, all right, official investigation until 2002.

That would make a lot of sense. 2002. So from 1980 to 2002 is how long it... Women begin going missing in 1980. So it takes a full 22 years for anything to... I think back in the 80s, the cops were like, oh, I'm missing a prostitute. Who cares? Hopefully they found somebody good. That's the idea for sure. Maybe they found...

you know, a guy that... That was the main story. And then they got loved and then they were like, okay, you don't have to do this anymore. Pretty woman. I want to take you away from all this. What's that from Family Guy? I have $3.74. Do something to me. I love you. I want to take you away from all this. What's his name? Captain Savo? No. The actual actor. Richard Gere? You had a gerbil in your ass? Same thing. Dustin was my Richard Gere. He said, stop this. Come with me. So romantic.

No, I think whether or not they thought what you said, like, oh, less sex workers is better for us. The official line of the police is like, there are no bodies. There are no signs of foul play. They're grown adults. They can leave whenever they want. They probably just left Vancouver. Whether it was with men, that was their official line was that, yeah, they're gone. So Willie's in jail for the gun. While he's in jail, they find bodies. They let him know. Question number 11. How many murders will he initially be charged with upon this arrest? Is it A, 2, B, 6, C, 17, or D, 29?

Initial arrest. So he's in there for weapons. They, you know, like re-arrest him for murder. And they've gone to his house. And they've been there for the day. And they've, just for one day. Yes, I believe at this time it was one day. And he's being arrested and charged with murder for how many? Two, six, 17, or 29? Dustin says two. Ashley says 17.

With the evidence they have found, Robert Pickton is initially charged with two counts of murder in the first degree for Serena Abbotsway and a woman named Mona Wilson. So 250 more points for Dustin. Good job. And here I've got kind of a timeline because we're sort of in, he's been charged, they're going to look for evidence, they're going to build a case, we're going to go to court, so you'll forgive me for being sort of, here's this date, here's this date, here's this date, but I just found it to be the easiest way to tell this. Because on April 2nd of this year, this is 2002, everything here is going to be 2002 until I say otherwise. April 2nd, the Crown announces three more first degree murder charges against Pickton.

April 9th, 6th murder charge is laid against him. On April 23rd, Karen Jonesberry, a mother of one of the victims, files a lawsuit against Picton, the police, the province, and the federal government in relation to her daughter's death. So she's just like, oh, you were all neglectful and you murdered her. So a lawsuit for you all. So all that happened in 21 days. That's that timeline from April 2nd.

Until she filed the lawsuit. It was 21 days. Yes, correct. May 22nd, Picton is charged with first-degree murder of yet another woman. On June 6th, police begin excavating Picton property with the help of archaeologists. On September 19th, a father of a missing woman, Marcy, files a lawsuit against police, city of Vancouver, and the province and federal government as well. September 19th, Willie Picton is charged with four more murders.

Is this a word problem? Is that what's happening? I told you I'm sorry that it's so like... No, I know. It feels like a train leaves heading west at 24 miles an hour. That's what it feels like. So the list of missing officially grows to 63. Now, that doesn't mean that those are willies. That's just the list of officially missing women in Vancouver from 1980 to 2002 has officially been narrowed down to 63 women, which doesn't sound like a lot.

No, that's a lot. I'm sorry, that's a lot. No, I mean, over 22 years, that's really only this amount a year. But that's still 63 unexplained disappearances that you can't... Well, that's the number that they have for now. Right. Okay, so on October 2nd of 2002, Picton is charged with the murders of four more women. On January 13th, 2003, preliminary hearings began in a provincial court in Port Coquitlam. And on July 21st of 2003, the hearing concludes. And July 23rd, two days later, Judge David Stone commits Picton for trial on counts of 15 counts of first-degree murder.

On November 18th, investigators wrap up a mass excavation in search of the Picton property. So that excavation, if you guys will remember, began on... June 6th. June 6th. So they excavated from June to November. So five months? Spent five months digging up his property. Five months just finding bodies.

Sign me up. No! See, those guys are dumb because I can go to a cemetery and find one in five seconds. On February 20th, 2004, B.C. government reports investigation costs will likely run up to $70 million and that the money has been set aside in the provincial budget. March 10th, they're like, oh, it's going to cost $70 million to investigate it. We don't even trip, bitches. We got it, motherfucker. We already set it aside. We said we're going to go ahead and earmark this for what? For this fuckface over here. Yeah, this fuckface here, we got to really look at this. He's a real piece of shit. Oh.

March 10th, 2004, health officials report that they cannot rule out that human remains may have been in meat processed for human consumption at the Picton property. I was thinking that that was going to be something. I thought that that was going to be. So there was a recall in meat. No one turned in meat, apparently, from the recall. But they could not rule out the fact that at his farm and the rendering plant, there could be... They couldn't turn in meat because they were all dead from a fucking prion disease. Well, there is one woman who... Because Willie would give out meat. Like, that was his shit. Like, if you own a slaughterhouse, why wouldn't she be like... Yeah, no, we talked about the free meat, man.

So one woman claims that she ate meat, really gave her, and she got hepatitis. In May of 2005, the Crown lays 12 more first-degree murder charges against Picton. In June of that year, pretrial hearings begin in B.C. Supreme Court in New Westminster under a publication ban. In October, pretrial hearings end, and in January 30th, 2006, legal arguments begin on admissibility of evidence. And December 12th of that year, yeah, that's right, a full 12 fucking months later, the jury is finally chosen amidst warnings they could be sitting for a year or more. Picton's trial begins on January 30th, 2007, in New Westminster, and he pleaded not guilty to 27 charges of first-degree murder in the Supreme Court of British Columbia.

It took them a year to go from legal arguments beginning to the trial beginning. It took them a full year of evidence and discovery and everything. Well, because of the amount of evidence. Yeah. Because that was the part of the trial that took the longest was, okay, piece of evidence number 3,652. Yeah. This bone chip. Is this invisible? We found it here. We did this. We did this. Here's why that's not invisible. And they have a whole trial about that before they have a trial.

So, yeah. In the next phase, the trial took almost the most of the year to determine what evidence might be admitted before the jury. There we go. It was the next line. Reporters were not allowed to disclose any material presented in the arguments, and on March 2nd, one of the 27 counts was rejected by Justice James Williams for lack of evidence. On August 9th, Justice Williams severed the charges, splitting them into one group of six counts and another group of 20 counts. The trial proceeded on the group of six counts, and the remaining 20 counts could have been heard in a separate trial, but ultimately were stayed on August 4th of 2010.

Because of the publication ban, full details of the decision are not publicly available, but the judge has explained that trying all 26 charges at once would put an unreasonable burden on the jury, as the trial could last up to two years and have an increased chance for mistrial. So this judge is saying, yo, we got super strong evidence on six of them. One trial. We got some shit on these 20. That's another trial. So...

I also think that there might be something to that as far as the sentencing phase goes. Yeah. Because you know how they'll run like... That's why you get like five consecutive life sentences. Right. Instead of concurring life sentences. The other 20 don't really fucking matter at that point. Well, and it's like if one of those gets overturned, you still have... Exactly. If one of them gets appealed, then you still have five that they're writing on. Four consecutive life sentences. Right.

So the judge also added the six counts he chose had materially different evidence from the other 20. Office of Inspector General Senior Investigator R.J. McDougald was the case agent for the investigation. That's a strong name. I know. On this date, Picton faced first-degree murder charges in the deaths of six women. To try and gain more information, they put an undercover officer into Willie's neighboring cell knowing Willie's proclivity to talk himself up to be tough and scary. He would admit a lot to that officer, including a number.

Question number 12. This is only going to score one of you guys. 250 points to the closest. 1,000 if you nail it. Hold on, hold on. Before you continue, just so you understand the gravity of the situation. Yeah, let's get a score update here. It is 1,500 to 1,000, Dustin. So Ashley, you kind of need to nail this. You got three questions left, so you for sure need to be the closest on this. Okay. Question number 12. Willie admitted to an undercover cop posing as a cellmate that he had killed how many women? So they throw an undercover cop in the next cell knowing Willie wants to, you know, I'm fucking dope is what I did. And Willie says, I killed this many. All right. 250 points to the closest.

Okay, Ashley said 14. Dustin said 75. Dustin got that one. No. Oh, yeah, he did. Dustin gets the 250 points because Willie admits to killing 49 women. Oh, gosh. As of February 20th, 2007, the following information has been presented. Wait, wait, wait. I didn't see that 49 women part, so hold on. You might have to do that math again. 75 minus 49 is 26.

And what'd you say? 14. 14 to get to 49 is 30. Yeah, yeah, Dustin got it. Okay, okay. Go on, shorter. Yeah, but it's not equal distances. It's 26, he's 30. Yeah, yeah, you gotta be equally tied to make it that way. Okay, so as of February 20th, 2007, the following information was been presented to the court. During Picton's trial, lab staff testified that about 80 unidentified DNA profiles, roughly half male and half female, have shown up on evidence. Now, it's not saying these people are dead, but there is 80 DNA profiles, including missing women, included in the evidence of this trial. Just imagine, not even DNA profiles, just like imagine...

a cup full of spit from 80 people or different hair follicles from 80 people. No. Yeah, like, that's just such a... I did it! You say spit cups? Or whatever. Whatever you feel like putting in it. So, the items police find inside Picton's trailer of some interest are a loaded .22 revolver with a dildo over the barrel.

I call that the Loudner. Wait, wait, wait. What happens when you shoot it? You don't ask questions you don't want the answer to, buddy. Boxes of .357 Magnum handgun ammunition, night vision goggles, two pairs of faux fur lined handcuffs, Spanish fly aphrodisiac, and a syringe with three milliliters of blue liquid inside. Question number 13. What was in the syringe? Is it A, antifreeze, B, Kool-Aid, C, a still unknown concoction, or D, window washing fluid? Antifreeze, Kool-Aid.

a still unknown concoction, window washing fluid. So the answer I was going to give isn't even on there. I was going to guess it was drain cleaner. Me too. See, she wrote that one on there too, buddy, huh? Maybe that was one of them. Maybe I'm just tricking you and it's... Okay, Ashley says, antifreeze, Kool-Aid, a still unknown concoction or window washing fluid. Dustin says, hey, as does Ashley. That's no way to get a win because neither of you will score points. A videotape of Pickton's friend, Scott Chubb, saying Pickton had told him a good way to kill a female heroin addict was to inject her with windshield washer fluid. Wow.

And this tape was shown in court of Willie being like, oh, go away, KLSX worker. No way. Yeah. A second tape was played for Pickton in court in which an associate named Andrew Bellwood said Pickton mentioned killing the prostitutes by handcuffing and strangling them. So Andrew, who we talked about telling that story, is videotaped in a confession and showed to Willie too. Like, hey, this guy said this about you, dumb shit. Everybody's got something to say.

Photos of the contents of a garbage can can be found in Picton's slaughterhouse, which held some remains of a sex worker, heads, hands, and feet. The rest all went to the rendering plant, as we talked about. In October of 2007, a juror was accused of having made up her mind already that Picton was innocent. The trial judge questioned the juror. What a wild, what a spicy take. The trial judge questioned the juror, saying, quote, It's reported to me that you said that you were certain Mr. Picton was innocent and that there was no way he could have done this, that the court system had arrested the wrong guy. The juror denied this completely, and Justice William ruled that she could remain on the jury since it had not been proven that she made the statements. On December 9th...

2007 the jury returned a verdict that picked in is not guilty on six counts of first degree murder but is guilty on six counts of second degree murder. Essentially they couldn't prove premeditation on any of them. But they're good on the second degree. So a second degree murder conviction carries a punishment of a life sentence with no possibility of parole for a period between 10 and 25 years to be set by the trial judge. On December 11, 2007, after reading 18 victim impact statements, British Columbia Supreme Court Judge Justice James Williams sentence picked into life with no possibility of parole for 25 years. The maximum punishment for second degree murder and equals to the sentence that he would have been imposed even if he had got first degree murder. So it's a life sentence, no chance of parole for 25 years.

Mr. Pickton's... This was from the judge, Justice James Williams. Hey, that's coming up pretty soon here. That's what I was just going to say. Quote, Mr. Pickton's conduct was murderous and repeatedly so. I cannot know the details, but I know this. What happened to them was senseless and despicable. Yeah, that's a fair assessment. Can you give me a score update? Does Ashley have a chance to win without a stabbing question? It is 1750 to 1000 right now. Dustin, you are going to be the winner today, regardless of how this question goes. No, because isn't a stab worth this? There is no stab on this question. Sorry. Why do you have to break my heart already? Well, I don't want to... Okay.

I mean, do you want to allow her to stab? How about that? I've got no problem with it. It seems like a question that stabbing is reasonable on. Make it interesting. Okay. Question number 14. In what year did Willie picked and die? You don't get the multiple choice. You just got to guess. Okay, Dustin. Was it 2009, 2011, 2013, 16, 18, 21, or is he still alive? Oh, I thought we had to guess. Well, Dustin got multiple, so you had to stab. Don't change your answer. Don't change your answer. You stabbed. You got to write it out.

Dustin says still alive, gets the points, and that's the show. Willie Pickton's still fucking chilling in prison, guys. I was like, question before. So Dustin, I think, if I'm not mistaken, the first person to reach 2,000 this season. Yep. Wow. So congratulations on that. Congratulations, babe. And every episode contains the same amount of possible points. So if you're the highest, you're the highest, not because you had the most questions or whatever, it's because you nominated the hardest. He doesn't talk so much, but he always wins. So beat that. He doesn't talk very much during the podcast, but he definitely can win. Why say lot words when a few word do trick? Yeah, he always knows the answers. I'm listening. That's why I answer my questions correctly. That's why I fucking won.

Hey, you said there was no divorce on the line. Shut up over there. No divorce on the line ever. You married us. I'll divorce you too. I'm ordained. I will do it right now. That is the show. Congratulations, Dustin. Thank you guys so much. Is there anything you guys want to share? Have a cool smash on Instagram, TikTok. I'm going to be going live soon. Will it be on November 18th soon? Maybe.

Make it happen. Yeah, I'll make it happen. No, I'll be live. Put the note in your favor. I'll be live before this launches. So it'll be great. Hopefully. There we go. So just go follow. Follow my lives. Follow my lives. TikTok. Hello cool. Smash. Dustin. Squatch. No, I'm good. Don't follow me. Don't look me up. I won't follow you back. We have a mutual account. Smustin. Oh. All right. So.

All right, guys, that's the show. Please remember to rate and review it wherever you can. It really helps put us up in the motherfucking algorithms. Word of mouth is also very important, so if you've got a friend who might like us, don't be afraid to tell him. Check out all the new stuff over on SerialChillersPod.com, which will tell you when we have events coming up for a show or anything on the side for Greg or myself, like Twitch streams, and even friends of the show. We're going to add some calendar dates for that. It also has a link for everything you know or need that is affiliated with the show, and I've got a few Patreon shout-outs for you guys. Let me give a big shout-out. Thank you to Eva H. from Denmark, Houndsman Savion from Cochran, Canada, Renee W. from Albert.

Chris H. from Palmetto, Amber M. from Irving, Michelle L. from Seneca, Jordan R. from Salem, Crystal V. from Concord, and Austin L. from Clovis, California. We love you all. We love you all very much. Thank you to the Patreon patrons. You guys can go over there and give us a little as a dollar a month. You give us a dollar, we say your name. You're pretty much famous now. Again, the podcast. Greg, anything you want to end with here? No, no. Don't feed people to people. Just, like, listen.

Just eat the people by yourself. I can't believe that guy's still alive. What was it? Isuke Sagawa? Was that him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He kept it to himself. Yeah, he's free now, too. I know. He's just walking around doing post-cannibal shit, but he kept it to himself. Like, Dahmer fed his neighbor a sandwich. He's not really that cool, man. This guy put it in hot dogs. I'm fine with hot dogs. Don't feed people people. Not long pork hot dogs. That's the only thing I really can say about this is just don't feed people people. Don't feed people people. I'm fine with Dustin's hot dog. Oh, wonderful. All right, so don't feed people people.

Don't use the show for research and don't talk to strangers.