Behind the Surface

Are you looking to make this year your best yet as a fabricator? ISFA is kicking off the year at TISE (The International Surface Event), and our partner Cambria is joining the excitement as they debut new products and services exclusively at the show. In this episode of Behind the Surface, we will explore the why behind attending TISE. Cambria’s Arik Tendler shares insights on what to expect at the event, highlights their showcase, and explains how networking at TISE can help you jumpstart 2025. ISFA CEO Marissa Bankert discusses how ISFA and Cambria are partnering in 2025, what’s on the horizon for the association, and why TISE is a must-attend event for fabricators. Tune in to this episode to help you decide to attend TISE 2025, happening in Las Vegas, January 28–30.

Thinking about cashing out on your fabrication business? In this episode of ISFA’s Behind the Surface Podcast, Executive Director Marissa Bankert chats with Chase Busenbark, a business owner and certified broker who grew up in the stone industry. Chase outlines a roadmap to a smooth exit out of the surface fabrication business. Points of interest include: How to develop a solid exit strategy, even if you're years away from selling. Why EBITDA matters and how to normalize your financials for a more accurate picture. The best time to sell to maximize your profit. How to prepare your business for a successful sale, including presale financial organization and trend tracking. Dos and don'ts to avoid costly mistakes during the selling process.   Whether you're feeling burnt out, approaching retirement or otherwise changing your path, this episode will equip you with the knowledge and strategies you need to sell your fabrication shop on your terms.

This episode of Behind the Surface dives deep into the transformative power of software in the fabrication industry. ISFA Executive Director Marissa Bankert sits down with Mickey Gault, a 20-year fabrication veteran, to explore how software can be as game-changing as new machinery. They discuss key benefits like: Enhanced communication: Streamline internal and client communication, a critical factor for success. Improved efficiency and visibility: Identify bottlenecks, manage material costs and gain clearer operational insights. Tailored solutions: Learn how to work with software providers to find solutions that perfectly suit your needs.   If you’re thinking about implementing software or looking for technology that helps you streamline your workflow, this episode is for you. Learn how to address hurdles, including staff training and effective change management.   Software can be a powerful tool for fabrication businesses, boosting efficiency and overall operations. Tune in to learn how to leverage its potential and get a roadmap to success.

In this episode of Behind the Surface podcast, ISFA’s executive director, Marissa Bankert, sits down with Todd Hibbs, a fabrication specialist from Caesarstone, to explore the burgeoning interest in porcelain slabs. From its rise as a marble alternative to its status as a staple in home design, Todd and Marissa discuss the factors driving porcelain’s popularity. They delve into how technological advancements have transformed porcelain fabrication, making it more durable and versatile than ever before. Todd shares invaluable insights on fabrication techniques and the importance of adapting to new machinery, as well as identifies emerging markets for porcelain. Transportation concerns and practical tips for exploring this material round out the conversation, including a powerful message: Evolve with the times or risk falling behind.   Tune in to learn how to stay ahead of the curve when it comes to porcelain!   Pro Tip: Got questions about working with porcelain? Todd’s got answers. Reach him directly at [email protected].

In the latest episode of the Behind the Surface podcast, ISFA Executive Director Marissa Bankert is joined by Nate Kolenski, president of Block Tops in California, and Jeff “Corky” Cartwright from Planet Granite in Colorado to discuss what’s been deemed a silicosis crisis in our industry. They will delve into:   All eyes on engineered stone: bans, regulations and the dangers of respirable crystalline silica.  A brief history of silica safety standards in the United States.  How fabricators comply with federal and state guidelines.  California’s Emergency Temporary Standard: challenges fabricators are facing.  Common misconceptions within the industry.  Tune in to hear firsthand accounts of how fabrication shops are navigating silica safety regulations and OSHA compliance at a time when government agencies are elevating concerns around the dangers of respirable crystalline silica.  About the International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA) The International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA) is globally recognized as a premier trade organization serving the architectural surface industry. ISFA exists to help fabricators and other industry professionals increase product quality, improve safety measures, encourage professionalism and elevate profitability by facilitating education, standards and camaraderie. ISFA values innovation, dependability, trust, honesty, ethics and serving others above all else. Learn more at www.ISFAnow.org.

It’s pretty obvious that we wouldn’t be in business if we didn’t know how to sell countertops. The question is: How many of us know how to maximize the profit we get from each sale? In this episode, Geoffrey Gran of The Countertop Factory talks with us about: • Why sell upgrades? • Upgrades are everywhere in your life. • Eliminate “reverse buyer's remorse”. • Increased upgrades = Increased profits. • Self-funded raises for employees. Listen to this episode if you want to discover ways to significantly increase your profit on every sale. About the International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA) The International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA) is globally recognized as a premier trade organization serving the architectural surface industry. ISFA exists to help fabricators and other industry professionals increase product quality, improve safety measures, encourage professionalism and elevate profitability by facilitating education, standards and camaraderie. ISFA values innovation, dependability, trust, honesty, ethics and serving others above all else. Learn more at www.ISFAnow.org.

When the economy gets shaky, consumers tend to spend less overall, and they look for more bargains when they do spend. If this is always true, then how do we explain how Apple generated $3B in iPad sales in 90 days during the Great Recession? If everyone is reducing their spending across the board, how does a nonessential and relatively expensive item like an iPad generate such large sales numbers during a severe recession? Is it because of the Apple logo or is something else at play? It turns out there are two distinctly different types of consumers with two different sets of values – the NEO consumer who is driven more by authenticity, design and uniqueness as opposed to the traditional consumer who is driven by price, features and status. Join us as we talk with Mike Hetherman of Willis about the impact of NEO consumers on the countertop business. What’s the benefit of marketing to NEOs? How do we identify NEOs? How do we market to NEOs? How do we use this knowledge to improve our businesses? If you want to get out of the lowest-price-per-square-foot game, understanding the impact NEOs can have on your business is a game changer. About the International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA) The International Surface Fabricators Association (ISFA) is globally recognized as a premier trade organization serving the architectural surface industry. ISFA exists to help fabricators and other industry professionals increase product quality, improve safety measures, encourage professionalism and elevate profitability by facilitating education, standards and camaraderie. ISFA values innovation, dependability, trust, honesty, ethics and serving others above all else. Learn more at www.ISFAnow.org.

The recession is on everyone’s minds: Will we have one, or won’t we? How long will it last? Will we have a soft landing or a hard one? In uncertain times like these, it is more imperative than ever before to leverage data to run your business. Join us as we talk with Tim Saddoris, president of Grand Onyx. At Grand Onyx, they build world-class stone fabricators using systems, software, and technology they have developed to help fabricators better manage and grow their businesses. Today we will talk about how using data can help you navigate the challenges presented by this economy. Tim has a couple of specific case studies he presents that show how using data has impacted fabricators. We will also talk through some of the challenges in tracking and using data. If you are struggling with adapting to the challenges presented by these uncertain economic times, this is an episode you don’t want to miss! Sponsored by: Moraware, Grand Onyx  

Tune in to this episode of Behind the Surface as two experts from CaraGreen, a trusted source for healthier alternatives to conventional building materials, address mindful materials and sustainable products. This discussion will cover: What is being done to limit or eliminate crystalline silica in slabs for the safety of the fabricators. Industry best practices regarding silica safety and material innovations. Alternative materials and products that support a greener future. Discover new material categories and innovations along with the resources you need to embrace sustainability in your business. 

In today’s uncertain times, it’s more important than ever to have a strong sales pipeline that can withstand economic pressures and keep your business profitable. Join us as we chat with Justin Shaw, founder of Stone Fabricator Elite, a business development and sales support agency that specializes in helping fabricators grow their businesses with proven systems, solutions and strategies. Justin will share his expertise and insights on how to keep your pipeline full of quality opportunities and rapidly increase sales in both trade and consumer channels. We’ll cover tactics used by top fabricators to create a more defensible business and drive profitability, even during challenging times. Whether you’re looking to fine-tune your existing sales strategy or build a new one from scratch, this episode is for you.

In this episode, we’re joined by Stephen Alberts from Countertop Marketing Co. to discuss accessible and inexpensive marketing tools fabrication shops can use to glean customer insights and increase sales.  Starting with the basics, Stephen walks listeners through his recommendations with practical advice on the benefits of each tool. He’ll cover:  Customer Relationship Management (CRM) software.  Google Analytics.  Tracking calls and web form submissions: customizing to get the actionable data.  Other tools and metrics to keep an eye on.  Tune in to learn how to level up your marketing game in your fabrication shop and get results that bring in more revenue. 

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Egon Hinss and Damiano Caon from Breton discuss advancements that mitigate risk, including the company’s newest development: Bioquartz. Learn how this material enables a safer production workflow for fabricators while furthering sustainability initiatives. The team also discusses other material innovations, including an exclusive technology that pioneers the production of full-thickness quartz slabs, showcasing ultra-exotic color patterns and other full-body engineered quartz slabs that exhibit exceptional durability and shine over time. Tune in and get up to speed on the latest developments from this pioneer of the surfacing industry.

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Kyle Welker and Dan Peter from Laser Products Industries discuss the world of modern templating. They explore different solutions, their pros and cons, and how to identify which is right for your workflow. Discover how these digital tools can enhance accuracy and create efficiencies and learn how to track key performance indicators to gauge success and make informed decisions. Listen in to glean practical insights into optimizing templating processes and effectively leveraging digital tools to strengthen and grow your business.

An organized shop is a profitable shop. Chasing paperwork and other analog processes while keeping track of what and when things need to happen in the shop can be overwhelming. The bottom line: Disorganization inhibits your success in more ways than one. It creates confusion and mistakes and often increases the work. There are all kinds of digital tools that help fabricators streamline their processes. In this episode of Behind the Surface, Nancy Busch talks with Kallie Biggs, head of sales and marketing at Moraware, and Steve Mast, director of Precision Countertops, about software solutions that wrangle the day-to-day and other strategies that can help your shop stay organized.

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Tim Saddoris, president of Grand Onyx, a firm dedicated to helping fabricators increase their revenue using proven techniques that help build more profitable and scalable businesses, joins ISFA Executive Director Nancy Busch to discuss ways in which you can set your sales team up for success. Tim will break down methods to refine your existing sales process, uncover better ways to sell, and coach your sales teams to get remarkable results.     Learn tips and tricks, including:  Using Customer Relationship Management (CRM) software.  Tracking unanswered phone calls.  Tracking sales by month and quarter.  Reviewing average order size.  Assessing close rates.  Monitoring time to close.  Harnessing missed opportunities.     Without a streamlined sales funnel, your business is going nowhere fast. Tune in to discover how you can arm your sales team with tools and strategies that bring in more jobs and keep your business running smoothly. 

In this episode of Behind the Surface, ISFA Executive Director Nancy Busch is joined by Alyson Fortner and Reid Harvey from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) Respiratory Health Division. Together they will discuss: What is NIOSH and how is it different than other agencies? How does NIOSH work with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention? Crystalline silica safety: how to provide a safe working environment. Listen in to learn how you can insulate your business from the harmful effects of silica by taking steps to ensure a safe working environment for your fabricators.

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Steve Mast, director of Precision Countertops, joins Nancy Busch to discuss why there's no such thing as a free sink and how this concept applies to your sales strategy. Listen in and explore how you can make these offerings work for you by understanding the true costs versus the advantages. Learn practical tips for evaluating and selecting add-on programs that maximize margins and increase profitability.

In this episode, Joe Duszka, a highly experienced fabricator and current president of Carolina Custom Surfaces, joins host Nancy Busch for a conversation about innovative techniques and strategies that maximize slab yield and efficiency. Whether you're looking for cutting-edge technologies or tried-and-true methods, Joe will share his valuable insights and uncover the secrets to achieving higher profits and reducing waste. Listen in and learn how you can fast-track your slab efficiency and take your production process to the next level.

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Bradley Tuck, technical sales representative for Integra Adhesives, joins Nancy Busch to discuss adhesives for manufactured surfaces. In this podcast, you’ll learn about: Application best practices. Sticky sinks: ensuring adhesion on all surfaces, including porcelain and cast iron. Color matching. How to prevent mishaps and mistakes. Tune in to hear about all the latest developments on the adhesives front and pick up a few tricks of the trade that can save you time and money!

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Marc Rosenkrantz, president of Schechner Lifson Insurance, shares insights and strategies around how fabricators, installers, distributors and anyone else in the industry can protect themselves from potential risks and liabilities. He'll cover important topics such as property insurance, risk transfer programs, workers compensation, the dos and don’ts around protecting your business from cyber threats and more. Tune in to learn how you can safeguard your business for the future!

In this Behind the Surface podcast, Ed Young of Fabricator’s Business Coach joins Nancy Busch to discuss strategies for process improvements in the shop. Ed will identify value-added and nonvalue-added activities and discuss the TIM WOODS approach, a methodology that can reduce process waste and costs while enhancing productivity. Tune in to discover the eight ways you can recapture 10% of your capacity.

Recent years have shown steady growth in revenue, enabling many shop owners to invest in new machinery or expand their staff in order to keep up with demand. But when a downturn looms, how do you maintain a positive trajectory? In this Behind the Surface podcast, Tim Saddoris, president of Grand Onyx, joins Nancy Busch to discuss how to get the most from machinery and the employees who operate them.   Tim will focus on the people and the process in these three steps:   Having the right staff in the correct position  Creating a competition   Documenting the process  Hint: if you’re not first, you’re last.  

Did you know color trends start in development as much as 10 years before they hit the marketplace? In this Behind the Surface podcast episode, Mark Woodman, CMG, a passionate designer, trend-spotter, and consultant for Corian Design, joins Nancy Busch to discuss color and design trends in the decorative surfacing industry. Together they will discuss: The importance of light, dark and neutral A rearview on how the pandemic affected the color trends Return to nature design trend; increase in popularity of stained wood for cabinetry Finish and Texture Popularity of textures Mixing and matching colors and texture Using trends to help your customers choose materials Asking key questions to steer your customers in the right direction The dos and don’ts of stocking colors  

Are you wondering what the industry holds for your business this year? In this Behind the Surface podcast episode, Ed Young of Fabricator’s Business Coach joins Nancy Busch to discuss the 2023 Industry Outlook from a fabricator’s perspective. Tune in to hear what expert and fabricator Ed Young sees trending across the country and gather insights on what to do to ensure your success. Discussion will include: Insights by geographic area: Some areas are seeing slow down Some areas are still as busy as ever Predictions by market segment: Residential Commercial Medial field Define your focus 2024 Sneak Peek: Which markets stay hot and which will turn cold? Pro Tips: If your shop is busy right now, learn what you can do with as little as 30 minutes each week to work on your business and get ahead of potential problems. Hint: Train for a marathon, not a sprint!

Do you need to train your salespeople in the art of selling specifically for the surface fabrication business? Are you struggling to find the time to provide the comprehensive training necessary to develop your team's skills? Join Justin Shaw from Stone Fabricator Elite and Behind the Surface host Nancy Busch for A Sales Rep Clinic Introduction. Learn how this eight-part webinar series can help you navigate the sales process more efficiently, engage better with potential customers and close more deals.

In this episode of Behind the Surface, Matthew Bodoff, Business Development Manager at Ineos Composites, and Chris Anderson, Business Development Manager at US Silica, discuss quartz supply from a raw material supplier’s perspective. The pandemic and the winter storms of 2021 affected the supply chain, and where does that leave us today? Listen in to better understand the current reality, forecast, and how providing your input can help the future development of the category.

How are you planning for an economic downturn? Will you be taking an offensive or defensive approach? In this episode of the Behind the Surface podcast, Ed Young of Fabricator’s Business Coach and Justin Shaw from Stone Fabricator Elite join Nancy Busch to discuss effective business strategies to survive what challenges your business may be facing in these turbulent times.

How do you use good delegation to inspire your team? How do you set expectations and timelines with your power players? Listen in to this episode of the Installing Profitability® podcast as Eric Tryon coaches you through: The power of good delegation: How to accomplish more by inspiring others Creating clarity: Expectations, rules of engagement and timelines Identifying your power players and your opportunities Learn more about delegation, expectation and more in this episode of ISFA’s podcast. After listening, attend the workshop on December 14 at 2 PM ET, during which Eric will share how to coach for performance.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Annual Strategic Planning. Working on the business compared to in the business Year in review: evaluating wins & losses Identifying the next big opportunity Creating team focus and game plans After listening, attend the workshop on November 9 at 2 PM ET, during which Eric will dive into annual strategic planning. Go to ISFAnow.org to register.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Commercial Channel Success.  Commercial & Residential Projects: Apples & Oranges Get educated and learn the game Financial Capacities & Impact Estimating & Personnel  After listening, attend the workshop on October 12 at 2 PM ET. Go to ISFAnow.org to register. 

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Identifying and Targeting Large Customers.  How do you identify and target large customers? How do you prepare for the financial and infrastructure requirements for these large customers?  Listen in to this episode of the Installing Profitability podcast as Eric Tryon coaches you through: Blueprinting ideal prospects for your company  Identifying the problems you can solve for prospects Anticipating financial and infrastructure requirements Learn about ideal prospects and more in this episode of ISFA's podcast. After listening, attend the workshop on September 14 at 2 PM ET, during which Eric will share how to identify and target large customers.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Pricing Strategies.  How do you determine your pricing? Do you have a dedicated system to review and iterate your pricing depending on inflation, material supply, customer demand, operating costs or other factors? How often do you review your pricing structure?    Some studies suggest that a price change can impact margins by as much as 50%.     Listen in to this episode of the Installing Profitability podcast as Eric Tryon coaches you through:   Determining price points   Deciding when to absorb costs or raise prices    Justifying increases by fine-tuning and elevating your value proposition   Building a scalable pricing structure for your sales team   Learn about these critical levers and more in this episode of ISFA's podcast. After listening, attend the workshop on August 10 at 2 PM ET, during which Eric will tackle your specific pricing challenges and concerns. Go to www.ISFAnow.org to register. 

Customer Relationship Management (CRM) Software has an incredible impact on the success of your sales team and company culture. CRMs create team accountability and ownership, set expectations and more. Tune in as Tim Saddoris, President of Grand Onyx, Mike Langenderfer, President and CEO of The Countertop Shop, and Nancy Busch, Executive Director of ISFA discuss life before, during, and after implementing CRM software and share their discoveries along the way. Don’t miss this fun, engaging discussion of real-life examples of how CRMs can transform your business! Tune in and be sure to attend the Workshop on July 27 at 2 pm ET to take advantage of additional tools and insights. Come ready to discuss real-life examples. Register for the workshop at ISFAnow.org.  

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Planning for Growth. "How can I plan for growth when I'm swamped with the day-to-day?"   Finding the time and the energy to increase your scope can be challenging, but it's essential nonetheless. Attend the next Installing Profitability® Workshop to learn how you can position your business for the next big opportunity by: 1. Thinking strategically: Focus on the right drivers. 2. Determining the destination: Where do you want to go? What does the future look like? 3. Anticipating the challenges: What is at stake and how do you find the best approach? Learn how to tackle growth from real-world case studies and professional insights at the next Installing Profitability® Workshop on July 13 at 2 pm ET. Go to www.ISFAnow.org to register. 

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Performance Improvement Plans & Fierce Conversations.   What happens when you have a team member who is underperforming? That is never an easy conversation to have. You must first have the right tool in place to help identify the root cause of the issue. This tool will provide clarity for both the manager and the employee, enrich the work relationship and be a valuable learning opportunity for both parties. What is this tool?   Tune in and attend our Workshop on June 15 at 2 pm ET as we dive in further and discuss real-life examples!

Creating a positive, engaging consumer experience is vital in today’s highly competitive market. Consumer experience is the number one driver in their purchase decision. Having the right software and sales process in place to capture the emotional attention of your consumer from the start will lead to an overall better experience for all, providing more opportunities to add value for your consumer and increasing your profit. The process is not one-size-fits-all, only you can determine what’s best for your business! Be sure to register for the coinciding workshop on May 18 to take advantage of additional tools and insights!

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Managing by the Numbers.   Numbers don't lie. To find out what existing strategies are working for your team, you must have the right tools in place to track data and metrics. Those numbers will do the heavy lifting for you and provide proper direction and goals for your team. You are not going to get it right out of the gate but you must commit to start somewhere!   Join us for the related Workshop on May 11 as we discuss where to start and dive into some case studies!  

Have you ever thought about what’s next in your personal and professional life? Every fabricator has created something that no one else has ever thought of before. But the real opportunity is building upon what you may already know. What great idea are you sitting on that could be the next chapter in your success story?   Join Nancy Busch and special guest Michael Bustin, Durasein’s electric Global Chief Growth Officer, for a lively conversation that will drill down on ways to identify and tap into new opportunities that may be sitting right in front of you.   Tune in and be sure to attend the Workshop on April 27 at 2 pm ET as we dive further into this topic! Register for the workshop at ISFAnow.org.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. This episode will discuss Human Capital Assets: Building Management Teams.   Building a management team is an investment, not an expense! You're only going to get so far by yourself. You must assemble a team to help handle your business growth, or you will get stuck or go backwards. What steps must you take to build a successful management team so that you can free yourself to work ON your business, not in it? Tune in and be sure to attend the Workshop on April 13 at 2 pm ET as we dive further into this topic! Register for the workshop at ISFAnow.org.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. In this episode, we will discuss Hiring, Onboarding & Training.  For businesses that are the most successful, it’s the people that make the difference! You only have one opportunity to make the first impression! Find out how a planned onboarding process will set the tone for a successful work relationship. Even including some fun and games! Tune in and be sure to attend the Workshop on March 30 at 2 pm ET as we dive further into this topic! Register for the workshop at ISFAnow.org. 

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. In this episode, we will discuss Job Descriptions, Interviews & Recruiting. 

Standard Operating Procedures: You know you need them, but where do you start? SOPs and other workflow documentation are essential to running safe and efficient processes, but did you know they can also increase the value of your business? That’s right! Companies that have defined SOPs hold a higher value in the eyes of investors and buyers, and they will consistently outperform competitors.  Join Stephen Alberts, owner of the Countertop Marketing Company, as he presents easy, tech-savvy ways to create SOPs and other digital documentation for your workflows. Create robust, concise and clear SOPs in just minutes, and minimize opportunities for costly and dangerous errors.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. in the fourth episode of the conversation on Reducing Material Costs, we discuss Equipment & Technology!

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. In this third conversation on Reducing Material Costs, we discuss Sales Program Design & Showroom Layout!

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. Next, in this four-part conversation on Reducing Material Costs, we discuss finding opportunities to increase yield and cut fewer slabs!

In this special episode, we are joined by Rich Katzmann, who will be discussing commercial projects and whether you should be vying for this kind of business.   Rich Katzmann is the founder and president of Stone Services Group and has been working in the surfacing industry for the past six years. He has been a part of the residential construction scene his whole life as he grew up in the industry. Stone Services group provides commercial templating, install services and bid consulting services to fabricators, material providers, and general contractors across the nation. “We wake up every day looking at just this, commercial bids,” says Rich.   If you have a commercial opportunity sitting in front of you right now, and you’re asking yourself if you should submit a bid, listen to Rich’s insights so you can put your best foot forward.

The Installing Profitability® Series features Eric Tryon and is brought to you by your friends at BACA Systems. First, up in the four-part conversation on Reducing Material Costs, we’ll tackle Compensation Plan Design.