PODCAST · arts
Finding Our Way
by Jesse James Garrett and Peter Merholz
UX design pioneers and Adaptive Path co-founders Peter Merholz and Jesse James Garrett discuss the evolving challenges and opportunities for design leaders.
Episodes
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77: Automate All the Things!? A UX Reality Check on AI (ft. Dr Stefanie Hutka)
Dr. Stefanie Hutka, design researcher, Berkeley educator, and author of What Your Machines Should Do, joins us to look to the history of industrial automation for lessons on AI transformation. From Toyota's jidoka and the andon cord to Taylorism's lingering grip, we explore why AI amplifies...
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76: Embrace the Chaos—Design Operations in the age of AI (ft. Z)
Peter and Jesse are joined by Chengying "Z" Zheng, who shares her experience migrating a design team to be AI-first — off Figma and into code. She discusses how design leadership and operations divide the work, what happens to roles and titles when everyone becomes a builder, and how to make good...
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75: The Steady State of Unsteadiness
Peter and Jesse compare notes from Config, Figma's AI study, Lenny's newsletter survey, and countless conversations to read the current state of design leadership. The signals: existential AI panic has cooled into exhaustion, organizational chaos and leadership churn are the new normal, and…
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LIMINAL—4: You As A Service (ft. Dave Gray)
Dave Gray, author of Liminal Thinking and founder of School of the Possible, joins Peter and Jesse to examine what's actually getting in leaders' way right now: not the disruption itself, but the expertise that blinds them to it. The conversation moves from beginner's mind to the compression of...
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73: Charting an Adaptive Path toward AI Transformation
Peter and Jesse compare notes from their respective listening tours and client work on how AI is reshaping design teams. The conversation moves through the operational chaos of proliferating tools, the urgent need to articulate a value proposition, why design operations got cut right before they...
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72: The Worst Technology Rollout in History (Ft. Paul Ford)
Journalist, technologist, and Aboard co-founder Paul Ford joins Peter and Jesse with the perspective of someone running a services firm in the middle of being remade by AI. The conversation covers the collapsing cost of software, blurring roles, what machines do well and badly, what design's…
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71: Finding Our Way Live! (ft John Gleason)
Design consultant John Gleason returns to explore the leadership skills design needs to claim greater strategic influence. The conversation covers vulnerability and psychological safety, translating design value into business outcomes, the boldness required to assert a larger value proposition…
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LIMINAL—3: The Waves within Waves
Jesse's surfing metaphor opens a conversation about discernment and collective action in the liminal moment. Peter and Jesse explore why not every wave is yours to catch, how to find fellow travelers across functions and beyond your organization, and why sustainable pace — not anxious intensity —...
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69: In a World of AI, What is the Work Really About? (ft. Jorge Arango)
Information architect and consultant Jorge Arango returns five years later with a pointed question at the center of his practice: when AI can handle the surface work, what is design actually for? The conversation explores first principles, the conditions for skillful AI adoption, and why going...
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68: AI and Design: Fundamentals and The Future (ft. Dan Saffer)
Show Notes About the episode: Dan Saffer—designer, author, and CMU professor—joins Peter and Jesse to take stock of design education at a moment when everything is in flux. What’s worth teaching when the tools change weekly? How do you define quality when AI can spin up a passable prototype in...
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LIMINAL—2: Liminal Mindset, Skillset, and Leadership
When the ground is shifting and the destination isn't clear, how do you lead? Peter and Jesse explore the mindset and skills required to navigate the liminal moment—when old ways have dissolved but new ones haven't taken shape. From core mindsets of maintaining situational awareness and striving...
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LIMINAL—1: The Liminal Moment
When the old ways no longer hold and the new hasn't taken shape, you're in a liminal moment. Peter and Jesse explore what it means to lead through that in-between space—navigating uncertainty without retreating to the past, letting go of what defined you, and finding opportunity in the chaos…
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65: Design—Stuck in the Middle with AI (ft. Christina Wodtke)
Stanford professor Christina Wodtke joins Peter and Jesse in exploring the real contradictions of AI in design and product work: revolutionary prototyping speed versus the need for critical thinking, efficiency gains versus cognitive loss, and loving the technology while hating the exploitative...
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64: The State of Design Orgs—Growth Paths, Quality Standards, and Empowerment Gaps
Peter and Jesse discuss findings from Peter's survey of 750 UX pracitioners on organizational health. Designers feel good about their work but struggle with quality standards, staffing, and career growth. Senior practitioners are the unhealthiest group. Reporting structure predicts team health....
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63: AI Means Product Needs UX More than Ever (ft. Christian Crumlish)
Product leader, author, and civic tech veteran Christian Crumlish joins Peter and Jesse to discuss his transition from UX to product management and his experimental AI product manager, Piper Morgan. The conversation explores how product and design roles can be natural allies rather than...
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62: Design as Differentiator in a World of AI (ft. Andrew Hogan)
Figma's Head of Insights Andrew Hogan joins Peter and Jesse to explore emerging trends in design practice as AI transforms creative workflows. The conversation examines how role boundaries are blurring across product teams, where AI delivers real value versus hype, and design's growing…
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61: The Paradoxes of Product Discovery (ft. Teresa Torres)
Product Discovery coach, teacher, and author Teresa Torres joins Peter and Jesse to explore the messy reality of organizational change and cross-functional collaboration. She discusses why external coaching has limits, how individual contributors can drive change within resistant systems, and…
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60: Making the World– Design Education and Social Change (ft. Lesley-Ann Noel, PhD)
Dr. Lesley-Ann Noel, Dean of Design at OCAD, joins Jesse and Peter to discuss her global journey from Trinidad to Toronto, leading design education through relationships over craft, preparing students for social change, and her vision for decolonizing design while navigating the tension between...
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59: Design Isn’t Dead, But It’s Seen Better Days (ft. John Gleason)
Peter and Jesse are joined by design and business consultant John Gleason. Coming up through P&G's famous design initiative, we get his perspective on design beyond digital products, such as consumer packaged goods, we explore some significant parallels across industries and design domains with...
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58: AI is a Stress Test for Your UX: What Cracks Will It Show?
Jesse and Peter explore how AI is revealing the true value proposition of design teams. They discuss why "whoever controls the prompt controls the product" and why design leaders must understand their organization's expectations before embracing AI. The more things change, the more they stay the...
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57: On Being a Chief Experience Officer (ft. Amy Lokey)
Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Amy Lokey, Chief Experience Officer for the enterprise software platform, ServiceNow. We'll be talking about building a team that unifies product experience with customer experience, defining experience metrics that actually matter,...
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56: Design’s Role in the Evolution of Product Management (ft. Sara Beckman)
Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Dr. Sara Beckman, Professor at Berkeley's Haas School of Business and longtime observer and commentator of the dynamic between design and business. We'll be talking more about the legacy and impact, for better or worse, of design...
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55: The Maker Mindset Connecting Product, Design, and Engineering (ft. Todd Wilkens)
Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is Todd Wilkens, part of our leadership at Adaptive Path years ago, who has gone from design leadership to product leadership to fully integrated leadership of design, product, and technology. He'll talk with us about his increasingly...
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54: At the Intersection of Design and Business, Be The Anomaly (ft. Roger Martin)
Joining Peter and Jesse is business strategist Roger L. Martin, former Dean of the University of Toronto's Rotman School of Management, who advanced the conversation about design and business with his influential work in the late 2000s. We'll talk about the parts of that vision that worked out as...
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53: Leading Design Through Continual Evolution (ft. Peter Skillman)
Head of Philips Design, Peter Skillman, joins Peter and Jesse to share lessons from Philips' century of design innovation, from light bulbs to the compact disc to healthcare technology. We'll also talk about the cultural factors that support design influence, what he learned and had to unlearn…
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52: Design at a Crossroads (ft. Audrey Crane)
Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for design is veteran Silicon Valley design and product strategy consultant Audrey Crane, who will share her perspective on the changing mandates for design among her clients, the power that consultants wield that in house teams don't, and why...
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51: Design-led Innovation in Emerging Markets (ft. Gaurav Mathur)
On this show, Peter and Jesse are joined by Gaurav Mathur, VP of Design for Indian e-commerce giant Flipkart. He'll share with us his perspective on the big issues facing design leaders in India today, including hiring and training for junior designers, as well as design leaders making the case…
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50: Balancing Design and Business as a Utopian Pragmatist (ft. Leslie Witt)
Joining us to talk about what's next for digital product design is Leslie Witt, chief product and design officer for mental health care platform Headspace. Along the way, she'll share with us her journey from designer to design leader to P&L business leader, she'll also talk about building the...
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49: Unraveling Complexity in Product Development (ft. John Cutler)
Joining Peter and Jesse to talk about what's next for digital product design is John Cutler, veteran product manager and product management consultant. Along the way, we'll discuss what product leaders know that design leaders don't, facing ambiguity and uncertainty from executives, and how…
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48: Leading Design from IDEO to In-house (ft. Anne Pascual)
Anne Pascual, VP and Head of Design for European fashion e-commerce giant Zalando, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about driving innovation in a mature product category, the differences between leading design for an agency and leading design in-house, and creating a culture of trust at scale.
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47: Seeking Balance (ft. Koji Pereira)
Koji Pereira, Chief Design Officer for Brazilian fintech Neon, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about his career journey from Brazil to Silicon Valley and back again, finding the balance between speed and quality, and strategies for making the design team and the design process more inclusive
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46: Leading with Clarity (ft. Vuokko Aro)
Vuokko Aro, VP of Design for the UK's popular digital-only bank Monzo, joins Peter and Jesse to talk about shifting your design approach as your company scales, building a true peer relationship with product leadership, and creating a sense of togetherness for remote and embedded teams.
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45: The Phase Shift
Jesse and Peter grapple with the prevailing discourse around design leadership, the shift occurring from what design has been to what it is becoming, the ego death necessary for leaders to embrace their potential, and the opportunity for professionalism.
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44: The Mindful Executive (ft. Christina Goldschmidt)
Christina Goldschmidt joins Peter and Jesse to reflect on her first 60 days on the job as the newly appointed VP of product design for the music industry giant Warner Music Group. She offers thoughts on getting up to speed and finding early success as an incoming leader, profiling your…
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43: Leading Enterprise UX for LEGO Group (ft. Rebecca Nordstrom)
LEGO's Rebecca Nordstrom leads the team designing the software they use to produce those billions of little bricks. She joins us today to talk about bringing UX to the factory floor, measuring success when user adoption is mandatory, and the differences between leading design in North America and...
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42: Leading From Trust (ft. Cynthia Savard Saucier)
Peter and Jesse are joined by Cynthia Savard Saucier, co-author of the book Tragic Design and VP of UX for the Canadian e-commerce giant Shopify. We talk about what's worth fighting for and what's not, sharpening the business acumen of her teams, and the strategic value of kindness.
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41: Leading Experience Design for the Military (ft. Colt Whittall)
In this episode, "mission critical" takes on a whole new meaning when you're the Chief Experience Officer for the United States Air Force. The first person to take on that role, Colt Whittall, joins us to talk about getting things done when you have more influence than authority, finding meaning...
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40: The Cross-Trained Design Leader (ft. Rajat Shail)
Hardware design, software design, package design, experience design. Rajat Shail oversees all of it for home automation company Vivint. Rajat joins us to share what he's learned about managing design as a holistic function, the benefits and pitfalls of using design thinking training to engage...
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39: Reflections on the State of Design Leadership (Season 3 finale)
In this episode, Peter and Jesse reflect on the conversations they had with senior design leaders, the themes that emerged, the challenges facing design leaders today, and our hope for a brighter future.
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38: The Craft-led Design Executive (ft. Tim Allen)
In this episode, Peter and Jesse speak with Tim Allen, Global Head of Design and Research for Instacart, about his craft-forward approach to design leadership, how psychological safety enables innovation, partnering with strong operations leaders, and how growing up Black in Japan proved…
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37: From Design Leadership to Product Leadership (ft. Che Douglas)
In this episode, Peter and Jesse speak with Che Douglas, who has shifted from VP of Design to VP of Product for Booking.com, the world's leading travel website. Che talks about the cultural and functional relationship between product and design, what it's like to lead both as an integrated team,...
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36: The Chief Design Officer as Corporate Executive (ft. Jehad Affoneh)
In this episode, Peter and Jesse speak with Jehad Affoneh, Chief Design Officer of Toast, on topics ranging from the what it means to be an executive, how accountability is shared across functions, the importance of aiming metrics at organizational maturity, developing an experience strategy,...
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35—The Actualized Design Executive (ft. Daniela Jorge)
In this episode, Peter and Jesse speak with Daniela Jorge, Chief Design Officer at PayPal, about vision, delivering on an end-to-end customer experience, growing and developing the next generation of leaders, taking advantage of design skills such as facilitation, and what she's learned from...
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34: Design leadership to support organizational transformation (ft. Rachel Kobetz)
In this episode, Jesse and Peter speak with Rachel Kobetz, Global Head of Design for Expedia Group, about how at the core of her role is organizational transformation, how intentionality is at the core of every action, and the importance of relationship and communications in all directions.
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33: Leading Design in a Product World (ft. Greg Petroff)
In this episode, Jesse and Peter are joined by Greg Petroff, Chief Design Officer at Cisco Secure, and former design executive at GE, ServiceNow, and Compass, who shares with us his experiences in elevating Design's voice in the product development process, the importance of partnership,...
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32: The Intentional Design Executive (ft. Kaaren Hanson)
Kaaren Hanson, Chief Design Officer at Chase Bank, joins Peter and Jesse to discuss her approach to being a design executive, including what components need to be in place for success, how she coaches her teams, what she's learned to do (and not do), and how she navigates idealism and pragmatism.
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31: Sustaining yourself as a design executive (ft. Katrina Alcorn, GM IBM Design)
In this episode, Katrina Alcorn, General Manager for IBM Design, joins Peter and Jesse to uncover various aspects of being a design executive, including where to spend your time and energy, how to maintain culture and cohesion at scale, and the importance of showing compassion for yourself.
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30— Mailbag: UX maturity, conflict fatigue, and getting past imposter syndrome
(This is our last episode for a couple months. Talk to you in August!) In this episode, Jesse and Peter field questions from listeners, which lead to a range of discussions, including leading in immature organizations, the power of playing politics, overcoming imposter syndrome, and developing a...
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29: Listening with Intent (ft. Indi Young)
In this episode, Jesse and Peter speak with their friend and former colleague Indi Young on the eve of the release of her forthcoming book, Time to Listen. The conversation ranges from our time together, to how she approaches her work, her focus on listening deeply to each other, and her passion...
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28: The Leadership Ceiling (ft. Tim Kieschnick)
In this episode, Jesse and Peter talk to Tim Kieschnick, who established the UX practice at healthcare giant Kaiser Permanente, and then went on to spearhead human-centered design in the organization, about his illuminating framework he calls The Leadership Ceiling, the importance of playing...
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
UX design pioneers and Adaptive Path co-founders Peter Merholz and Jesse James Garrett discuss the evolving challenges and opportunities for design leaders.
HOSTED BY
Jesse James Garrett and Peter Merholz
CATEGORIES
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does Finding Our Way have?
Finding Our Way currently has 77 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is Finding Our Way about?
UX design pioneers and Adaptive Path co-founders Peter Merholz and Jesse James Garrett discuss the evolving challenges and opportunities for design leaders.
How often does Finding Our Way release new episodes?
Finding Our Way has 77 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.
Where can I listen to Finding Our Way?
You can listen to Finding Our Way on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts Finding Our Way?
Finding Our Way is created and hosted by Jesse James Garrett and Peter Merholz.
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