PODCAST · health
It Depends
by Jordan Holland and Katie Hogan
CrossFit Games legend and seminar staff flowmaster Katie Hogan, and multi-location affiliate owner, and CrossFit Games participation award winner Jordan Holland discuss everything at the intersection of fitness and business with an admitted CrossFit bias. If you love snatches, and sarcasm you found your people.
Episodes
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92. The great rebundling, Katie is getting jacked, and Jordan is getting skinnier and richer
CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET CrossFit |...
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91 CF Games, big girl firsts, and too many trainers without business skills
Jordan and Katie get caught up after a big stretch apart. CrossFit Games recap, raising girls is complicated, too many trainers are not leveling up business skills and Planet Fitness walks back some concepts. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry |...
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90. Jordan joins gym academy and trolls other Jordan, Katie doesn't care for it.
CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET CrossFit |...
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89. Mustache Mike is here and stop texting like an idiot
We go deep with a gym owner from a small town in Texas and he is absolutely crushing it. Text messaging might be costing you more than you think. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach...
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88. 9 foot targets are lame, Nike is taking a step backward, the moon "landing"
SHOW NOTES CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET...
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87. It's been a while, and there are billions on the horizon
CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET CrossFit |...
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86. When should you expand the offering, and stuff gets heavy sometimes.
Jordan and Katie get a little sad on this one working through some heavy topics. NOBULL comes up for the first time in a long time and Jordan is absolutely CRUSHING 2026! This episode was produced by Jordan Holland. The information, and opinions expressed here are mine and Jordan’s own, and…
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85. Katie hates trees and RESET needs a better manager?
Jordan and Katie go on epic tangents before they get down to business. Katie suspsects Jordan of getting hustled by a tree farmer. Staff development is an ongoing concern and RESET'S crap Q4 CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News |...
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84. Well rounded teams and NOT following your passions
Katie and Jordan take a big risk and go off on some tangents. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall...
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83. RESET did a customer survey and Jordan is FIRED!
Jordan and Katie unpack the results of the recent RESET customer survey, Jordan is a land baron, and Katie's daughter is invincible. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter |…
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82. Imposter syndrome, Jordan is off the market, and Chad wins
CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET CrossFit |...
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81. Big life changes, lawsuits, airpods and gym politics
Katie and Jordan do it again covering the FTC suing LA Fitness, the new airpods for your mixed language classes, and how to temper social issues in the gym.
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80. WE ARE BACK! Katie is mom AND coach of the year and Jordan is locking down that sugar mama
It has been two months of chaos so there is a lot to catch up on. Sending kids to college, extra sweaty members, and not all coaches are created equal.
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79. Great day in history, CrossFit vs everything or CrossFit PLUs everything
CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET CrossFit |...
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78. Joe Tepe is here and he is on fire! Also sperm racing is a thing now.
Jordan and Katie sit down with Joe Tepe from The Strip CrossFit and the conversation was epic. Stop what you are doing and listen to this one on 1/2 speed so you don't miss a thing. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News |…
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77. Non-essential sex sounds, Pepsi is losing, and pick up the pieces
Jordan and Katie dig into conflict resolution about sexual moaners in the gym, the fall of Pepsi in the soda wars and why it is a good sign when your coaches pick up trash. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press |...
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76. Katie could kidnap you, wellness is booming, and ex-members creeping back
Jordan and Katie are back after a long break. So much to catch up on. The CrossFit Open, Katie is going to be a great kidnapper, and so much more.
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75. Dan Uyemura is here! Founder and CEO of PushPress is taking you to school!
In this conversation, Dan Uyemura shares his journey from a troubled past to becoming the founder and CEO of PushPress, a software company focused on supporting boutique gyms, particularly CrossFit affiliates. He discusses his introduction to CrossFit, the challenges he faced as a gym owner, and...
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74. Kev DO NOT listen to this one, CFG rule change, and new coaches
CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street Journal | NewYork Times | IHRSA | RESET CrossFit |...
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73. IT'S 2025!! 2024 Industry Rundown, Jordan's L2, Good coach, bad mover?
In this episode, the hosts discuss the devastating California wildfires, personal stories of evacuation, and the importance of maintaining fitness credentials. They reflect on holiday gatherings and the significance of family traditions, before diving into the rising trend of continuous glucose...
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72. New FTC rules, don't be a hoarder, TOP 50% Y'ALL
In this episode, Katie and JHo dive into the curious habits of gym owners, from hoarding broken bumper plates to turning gyms into second garages. They tackle listener questions about cardio equipment—do you need all the gadgets or just the classics?—and discuss why making phone calls might be…
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71. It's been a minute
In this conversation, the hosts discuss a range of topics from the acquisition of Infowars by The Onion to the rapid evolution of technology and its implications for society. They reflect on the cultural significance of boxing and MMA, the importance of community and connection in fitness, and…
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70. Making sales calls, Rogue vs Concept 2, take a break
Jordan and Katie wax nostalgic about the golden days of magazine collages and ransom note aesthetics, then shift gears into the wild world of AI, as JHo tries to figure out if his kid’s calculus grade is pure genius or just a well-played ChatGPT assist. The fitness world gets spicy as they tackle...
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69. Painted dogs, Katie is a hot mom, and making fitness, friends, AND money.
Jordan and Katie kick things off with a lighthearted discussion about viral news, including a Chinese zoo painting dogs to look like pandas. They dive into the importance of following up with gym leads, with JHo sharing insights on their process at RESET and emphasizing how persistence can lead…
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68. Affiliate summit, to discount or not to discount, and level up your education
In this episode, Katie Hogan and Jordan Holland discuss a variety of topics ranging from the science behind Doritos and invisibility to the importance of fitness certifications and coaching feedback. They reflect on the recent San Diego Affiliate Summit, share insights on gym management…
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67. Ask good questions, Jordan is in France, Katie hates periods, new zone diet
Worst audio in the history of the pod but a trip to France can't stop this duo. Just listen to it. You don't need notes. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes…
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66. Totally worth the wait, Jordan's Games experience, showers, and science food
It's been a while. Cut us some slack. And enjoy. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell Spin | Morning Chalk up | Washington Post | Wall Street…
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65. Practice your pitch, taping cats together, and It Depends merch?
Jordan and Katie dive into a quirky 2018 study on parachutes, laugh about pricey military-grade dogs, and admire Bo Jackson's sports career. They discuss CrossFit HQ layoffs, advising gym owners to focus on what they can control. Katie shares BB’s stressful swim lessons, while Jordan vents about...
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64. Crappy rent vs crappy landlords, no kids allowed, and strong sexy seniors
In this week’s snark-filled episode of It Depends, Katie Hogan and Jordan dive into historical trivia, including parachutes and the Stonewall riots. They ponder why people can’t mind their own business, relating it to politics, religion, and CrossFit. Katie discusses her perfect landlords while...
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63. Wearables are for women, saunas are for men
Katie and Jordan are back with their usual blend of wit and wisdom, diving into the absurd and the essential. Katie is adamant about NOT skydiving and Jordan has tried to die on more than 30 occasions. They hilariously navigate the history of June 13th and debate the most useless gym equipment...
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62. The gym without a face, CrossFit Games Semifinals, and Hyrox at your gym
Jordan and Katie don't agree about dogs. Again. There was some epic racing at semifinals but also some really bad attendance and should your gym be a Hyrox affiliate? CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press |...
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61. Humans vs the algorithm, sucking at sales, and snakes everywhere.
Katie and Jordan kick things off with lots of snake-related news and then Katie gets a little heated over Orange Theory's "data-driven" coaching style. The team answers a listener question about sales and they get into gym filming etiquette.
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60. Don't be the best, lessons from Stages, ISSA making moves, and I hate your vibe.
Katie and Jordan go way off track with bad gym vibes and conjoined twins but once they rein it back in there is some really good stuff to learn from Stages cycling and the ISSA. Don't drop people just because you don't mesh with them and make sure you are taking advantage of the new tools from...
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59. Jay Decoons is here, the Open is over and we loved it, and a SWEEET listener quesiton
We got the new big dog of the affiliate team for an expansive conversation on all things affiliate. We were already hyped on his resume when he first got hired but after getting to unpack all things affiliates with him we are even more bought in. Great listener question about the risk of losing…
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58. Lay off the buterfly and don't let the brand languish. Lessons from Lifetime Fitness, Bowflex, and Jazzersize.
Katie and Jordan go ham on butterfly pull ups and catch up on a lot of CrossFit news. The Open is in full swing and Katie was basically the most important and beautiful person at the live announcement. The duo draws lessons from Lifetime's stellar performance and they dig into the risk of the...
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57. Charge like a bathhouse, Riot is closing, and selling your gym
ChatGPT says: In the engaging episode of "It Depends" dated February 22, hosts Katie Hogan and Jordan Holland dive into an eclectic mix of topics, from Taco Bell's innovative menu collaborations and a judge's scandalous resignation to the historic conclusion of Japan's Naked Man Festival. They...
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56. Can there be too much sex in the gym? What if your partner sucks?
Jordan and Katie do it again. And by "it" I mean they surprise and delight with their brilliance and banter. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press | Professional Coach Newsletter | Onthisday | Forbes | Barbell…
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55. Your CRM game better be strong. Tesla, Tiktok and burnout?
Jordan and Katie chat about CRMs, Tesla fitness gear, and Tiktok partnering with Peloton. The team answers a heavy listener question about burnout as well as other brilliant and delightful musings. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech...
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54. Why do people fawn over earlier eras of CrossFit, Google search trends, new years resolutioner haters
Jordan and Katie discuss why folks seem so enamored with an earlier era of CrossFit. They dig into industry news about Google search trends and what they indicate. And the team unpacks negative attitudes around the influx of New Years resolutions. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit...
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53. SEASON 2! Well sort of. Year 2, so basically the same thing.
Jordan and Katie chat about Ikea's foray into fitness equipment, the Bloomberg report on Xponential franchisees and Jordan throws his mother under the bus with Becca Voigt. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News | Associated Press |...
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November 30, Affilaite fee increase, L2 requirement, and the industry outlook according to us
Jordan and Katie hit the usual topics but there is no way around the news out today about the affiliate fee going up an average of 50%. Jordan has been saying this should happen for a long time. Now that he is back in an affiliate that is still not recovered has the tune changed?
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November 16, Language matters, CEO's maybe not so much, and when to start marketing your new business.
Jordan and Katie get into Planet Fitness leadership changes, boujee weight vests, how much language matters period but especially at your gym and when to start marketing your new business. Plus the other random nonsense. CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider |…
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November 9, Games problems, sweaty member problems, trough of sorrow problem.
Katie is coming in hot today. That is all there is to say.
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November 2, Don't be like lifetime fitness, do have a plan for a broader service offering, and make sure you are casting a wide net for new members.
Jordan and Katie talk about shoes and why you probably need less CrossFit gear than you currently own. Big and depressing news from Lifetime Fitness, and Hyperice and Escape Fitness are teaming up on recovery and what it means for you. Jordan isn't happy with the MCU. The paper, or the cinematic...
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October 26, Rogue Invitational is predictive, Spotify has the answer, and you need more continuing education
Katie and Jordan basically teach a masterclass in business with lessons from Spotify. The team goes down a Fast and Furious rabbit hole for a bit but then the fitness business talk comes back in strong with continuing education, Centr making moves, and all about prospects and leads. Also, Jordan...
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October 19, Super plunge and Ultra Theragun, stop buying new stuff for the gym, and drop ins suck sometimes
Katie spends way too much time hating on Jordan's breathwork training, the duo discusses NASM's new trainer education program and are there too many features on the new Theragun pro plus? CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate | Fitt Insider | Club Industry | Athletech News |...
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October 12, Your business partner might suckk, CLIMBR gets acquired, and Oura is doubling down on stress
Katie Hogan and Jordan Holland are back with a dive into the Forme and CLIMBR deal, the changes Oura is making to it's platform and business model and they answer a listener question about a lazy good for nothing business partner. And there is still more. Check it out. CrossFit | CrossFit Games |...
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October 5, Sharing pronouns, Lulu vs Peloton, and gym lounge areas
Katie and Jordan dig into the partnership between lululemon and Peloton and pull out lessons for gym owners and CrossFit HQ, as well as hit on cereal, gym lounge areas, using pronouns in the gym and inclusivity in general.
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September 29, Jenn Green senior manager of US gym ops, writing a business plan, and fitness in the metaverse
Katie and Jordan get to sit down with Jenn Green to chat about what she does for affiliates. The pair discusses Xponential Fitness getting into the metaverse, there is a listener question about business plans and so much more. SHOW NOTES CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a CrossFit Affiliate |...
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September 21, Everyone is a salesperson, lessons from EoS and Planet Fitness.
Katie and Jordan get into who should be selling in your business. Spoiler alert it is EVERYONE! They chat about lessons from EōS Fitness and what to learn as they cross 1 million member mark. And maybe you stop trippin' when CrossFit changes a CEO. SHOW NOTES CrossFit | CrossFit Games | Become a...
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
CrossFit Games legend and seminar staff flowmaster Katie Hogan, and multi-location affiliate owner, and CrossFit Games participation award winner Jordan Holland discuss everything at the intersection of fitness and business with an admitted CrossFit bias. If you love snatches, and sarcasm you found your people.
HOSTED BY
Jordan Holland and Katie Hogan
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does It Depends have?
It Depends currently has 94 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is It Depends about?
CrossFit Games legend and seminar staff flowmaster Katie Hogan, and multi-location affiliate owner, and CrossFit Games participation award winner Jordan Holland discuss everything at the intersection of fitness and business with an admitted CrossFit bias. If you love snatches, and sarcasm you found...
How often does It Depends release new episodes?
It Depends has 94 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.
Where can I listen to It Depends?
You can listen to It Depends on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts It Depends?
It Depends is created and hosted by Jordan Holland and Katie Hogan.
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