PODCAST · business
It's a Numbers Game
by Daniel Welling
The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.
Episodes
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EP143 – From Chaos to Traction - How EOS Builds Better More Valuable MSPs with Larry Garcia
In this podcast episode, Daniel Welling and Adam Morris speak with Larry Garcia about the rise of EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) among MSPs, attributing its popularity to MSPs' productivity mindset and EOS's prescriptive framework for running a business. They explain EOS's origins in Gino...
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EP142 – MSP Global, M&A, Specialisation and the Power of Meeting People with Christian Jaeger
Podcast hosts Daniel and Adam interview Christian (CloudFest/MSP Global) about parallels between cloud hosting and today's MSP M&A market, describing how private equity funding drove consolidation into a few large platforms while new niche specialists emerged and were later acquired. Christian...
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EP141 – How MSPs Can Turn Client Testimonials into a Marketing Engine with James Steel
In this podcast episode, Daniel interviews James Steel of MSP Testimonials about using video testimonials to create reusable marketing assets for MSPs, building on a prior episode about written case studies. They discuss common objections (not wanting to bother clients and not knowing what to do...
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EP140 - Why MSP Security Needs to Be Simpler with Shaun Farrow of Arctic Wolf
Dan speaks with Sean Farrow of Arctic Wolf about the fast-changing MSP cybersecurity landscape and Sean's move from a 15-year MSP career, most recently as security practice lead, to the vendor side. Sean explains how gaps in an MSP's Microsoft-based SOC portfolio led him to Arctic Wolf for...
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EP139 – The MSP Joiner-Leaver Problem Nobody Talks About with Cristian Bogdan from CooperBox
Cristian discusses how his MSP experience provisioning thousands of pandemic-era laptops exposed frequent mis-provisioned user accounts, often caused by clients submitting incomplete joiner requests (missing departments, licenses, and permissions). He highlights the larger risk on off-boarding,...
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EP138 – Can MSPs Really Buy and Sell Individual Clients with Matt Yesbeck from MSPX
Matt discusses MSPX, a marketplace for MSPs to buy and sell individual managed services contracts as an alternative to acquiring entire businesses. The platform helps MSPs divest non-profitable or non-strategic clients and enables buyers to shorten sales cycles by targeting specific verticals or...
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EP137 - Why MSP Sales Decisions Aren't as Rational as You Think with Marino Vigliotti
Marino joins the podcast to discuss decision-making psychology for MSPs, emphasising that B2B buying differs from B2C because decisions require justification to others and are shaped by different goals. He describes common friction caused by misalignment between what MSPs pitch as "gains" and…
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EP136 – How I F'd Up Three Acquisitions: Lessons From Apple MSP M&A with Justin Esgar
Justin returns to the podcast and discusses the challenges and lessons from acquiring three Apple-focused businesses since 2020 amid consolidation in the Apple consultant community and difficulty targeting Mac-using clients. He describes buying a small Iowa Apple consultancy with the seller kept…
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EP135 – How MSPs Can Get Paid Faster with Tom Pope
Tom discusses Adfin as a "new, better GoCardless," arguing it offers stronger support, more competitive pricing, and a broader product: direct debits, cards (including Apple Pay/Google Pay), open banking, and bank transfers in one platform with integrated chasing and reconciliation via Xero. He...
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EP134 – The MSP M&A Landscape in 2026 with Paul Vanstone
Paul joins the podcast to discuss MSP M&A trends and what 2026 may look like after years of consolidation driven by PE-backed platforms, self-funded acquirers, listed buyers, and newer permanent capital vehicles. He explains why the market has been attractive (fragmentation, cloud migration…
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EP133 – The Compliance Revenue You're Missing with Dom Haughton and Alastair Goodwin
Adam Morris and Daniel Welling discuss how MSPs can offer compliance as a service to differentiate and create recurring, high-margin revenue, joined by Dom Haughton (Brigantia Partners) and Alastair Goodwin (Adoptech). They explain that MSPs are increasingly asked by customers for certifications...
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EP132 – Rehearse the Chaos — Why every MSP should be running tabletop exercises with their clients — with Adam Pilton, Heimdal Security
Daniel Welling welcomes back cybersecurity advisor Adam Pilton (Heimdal Security) for a masterclass on cyber tabletop exercises. Adam defines a tabletop as a staged rehearsal where senior leaders and key responders use the organisation's incident response procedure while a facilitator introduces...
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EP131 – The Devil's in the Detail – Why your billing team, your margins and your processes need to be ready before you scale – with David Middleton, Flotek
Dave discusses how Flotek scaled its finance and billing operations from a simple setup (a bookkeeper and a director overseeing finances) to a more structured team while growing rapidly through acquisitions. He explains their philosophy that client-facing billing is part of service delivery, with...
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EP130 – 14 MSP Acquisitions in 4 Years – What Buyers Really Look For with Dave Middleton
Dave joins the podcast to discuss Flotek's M&A journey, having completed 14 acquisitions in three and a half years, and argues the MSP market is diverse, fragmented, and active, with frequent inbound opportunities. He explains deal sourcing through SEO, brokers, network reputation, and supplier...
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EP129 – Why Most MSPs get PR wrong with Rahme Mehmet
In this episode, the hosts Adam and Daniel are joined by PR consultant Rahme to discuss an upcoming 2026 collaboration and unpack what PR means for MSPs and vendors: public relations as audience-focused communication that builds reputation, brand awareness, and relationships with influencers such...
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EP128 – Using the Working Genius Model to Build Better MSP Teams – with Chris Cooke
Chris joins Daniel and Adam to discuss Patrick Lencioni's Working Genius assessment, a 40-question framework about where people get energy and joy at work, contrasting it with tools like Myers-Briggs and DISC (communication preference). He explains the WIDGET model: Wonder (identify gaps),...
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EP127 – Loneliness is the tax you pay for autonomy
Loneliness Is the Tax You Pay for Autonomy: The Hidden Cost of Business Ownership Adam and Daniel depart from the usual guest format to discuss the often-ignored loneliness of business ownership, especially in MSPs. They frame autonomy as rewarding but inherently tied to responsibility,...
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EP126 – Becoming the Chief AI Officer for Your Clients with Nils Howland
In this episode, we welcome Nils, co-founder of Ironbridge, to discuss the transformative potential of AI for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Nils shares his extensive background and experience in scaling businesses and investing in tech startups. He elaborates on how MSPs can leverage AI to...
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EP125 – The Apple MSP Conference You've Never Heard Of with Justin Esgar
Join us as we chat with Justin Esgar about the ACEs Conference, an event designed to help MSPs (Managed Service Providers) grow their businesses with a focus beyond just technological skills. Justin shares his journey in founding the conference, designed originally for Apple consultants but open…
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EP124 – What Does a New Client Really Cost with Nicola Moss
In this podcast episode, Nicola Moss, a marketing expert, discusses effective budgeting strategies for marketing within Managed Service Providers (MSPs). She highlights the differences in budget allocation and approaches between small and large MSPs and provides a practical guide on setting…
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EP123 – Selling Hardware Without the Pain or the Price War with Alicia Shepherd
In this episode, Alicia discusses her role as a hybrid distributor and manufacturer within the Wortmann Group, focusing on Terra branded devices and their distribution of over 10,000 SKUs from various major brands. The conversation delves into supply chain issues exacerbated by the pandemic and…
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EP122 – If MFA Stops 99% of Attacks… Why Are Companies Still Being Breached - with Al Lakhani
In this episode, the Adam and Daniel welcome Al Lakhani a cybersecurity expert, to discuss the revolutionary MFA 2.0 technology. Al explains how traditional MFA (Multifactor Authentication) methods, known as MFA 1.0, are vulnerable to credential phishing attacks, highlighting recent breaches by…
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EP121 – Using AI to Solve Real MSP Problems with Roy Castleman
In this episode, Roy Castleman joins the podcast to share insights from his extensive experience in leveraging AI to run multiple businesses. The conversation delves into practical applications of AI, the challenges of selecting the right tools amongst many, and optimising AI usage through clear...
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EP120 – Selling Cybersecurity to Clients Who Think They're Not a Target with Adam Pilton
In this episode, Adam Pilton from Heimdal discusses his role in educating and supporting MSPs and small businesses on cybersecurity. He shares his unique perspective drawn from a 15-year career in law enforcement and as a Cyber Essentials auditor. The conversation covers the importance of...
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EP119 – How MSPs Should Start With AI Today with Fiona Challis
In this episode, Fiona discusses the rapid advancements in AI, especially in the Managed Service Provider (MSP) sector. The conversation delves into how AI avatars are surpassing human avatars in social media, the adaptation of MSPs to AI technologies, and the importance of staying updated in the...
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EP118 – Confidence, Change and Better Decisions with Graham Norris
In this engaging episode, hosts Daniel, Adam and guest Graham Norris explore their personal journeys within the Toastmasters program, highlighting its significant impact on their public speaking skills and confidence. They share stories about overcoming initial fears and discuss how repeated...
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EP117 – Consolidate, Certify, Comply: Jason Kemsley's MSP Playbook for 2026
In this episode, host Daniel welcomes Jason Kemsley to discuss the evolving landscape of Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Jason shares his insights on the three Cs that will define successful MSPs by 2026: Consolidation, Certification, and Compliance. The conversation explores the importance of...
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EP116 – Why Your MSP Contracts Are Costing You Profit with Anne Hall
In this podcast episode, Adam, Daniel, and Anne discuss the significance of legal agreements for Managed Service Providers (MSPs) and how they impact EBITDA. They discuss the inherent risks MSPs face, the importance of proactive use of contracts, and common pitfalls like revenue leakage from...
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EP115 - Building Trust with Effective Case Studies with Rob Beadle
In this episode, industry expert Rob joins the hosts to discuss the significance of high-quality, effective case studies for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). The conversation delves into the current state of case study usage among top UK MSPs, revealing that while many are embracing both written...
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EP114 – MSP Show 2025 - M&A Masterclass - Positioning for the Perfect Deal
In this informative session, Adam and Dan delve into the intricate world of mergers and acquisitions (M&A) specifically tailored for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Recorded live at the MSP Show 2025, returning for a second year to the London exhibition, the duo builds upon last year's…
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EP113 – Streamlining MSP Billing and Eliminating Reconciliation Headaches with Colin Knox
In this episode, Colin returns to discuss the intricate challenges MSPs face regarding billing reconciliation. He explains how MSPs struggle with managing a wide spectrum of resold products and the dynamic nature of SMB customers. Colin introduces a new 'done-for-you' reconciliation service...
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EP112 – Open Banking and the End of Traditional Direct Debits with Kevin Ludford
In this episode of It's A Numbers Game, hosts Adam Morris and Daniel Welling discuss the future of payments with open banking expert Kevin Ludford. The conversation delves deep into the advancements and benefits of variable recurring payments (VRP) for managed service providers (MSPs). Kevin...
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EP111 – How to build an MSP Sales Engine with Graham Stead
In this podcast episode, host Daniel Welling catches up with former colleague Graham to discuss their shared history and Graham's career journey, from his early days at Solsis to his significant role at NewCMI and beyond. The conversation explores the evolution of Managed Service Providers…
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EP110 – Building MSP Growth on a Strong Cyber Foundation with Phil McGowan from Huntress
In this episode, hosts Adam Morris and Daniel Welling welcome guest Phil McGowan to discuss the innovative security solutions offered by Huntress, particularly focusing on their endpoint detection and response (EDR) and 24/7 security operations centre (SOC) services. They dive into how these…
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EP109 – Learn how this MSP is saving thousands per month using real world AI – with Alex and Dani from PCW Solutions
In this episode, host Adam welcomes Dani and Alex from PCW Solutions to discuss their business journey, emphasising how they've integrated artificial intelligence (AI) into their company's operations. Alex details the inception and growth of PCW Solutions over the past 21 years, starting from...
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EP108 – The Co-opetition Playbook: Aligning MSP Ops with the P&L
In this episode of 'It's A Numbers Game,' hosts Adam Morris and Daniel Welling are joined by guests Angie Hasenbank from Hasenbank Accounting Services (US) and Lauren McMaster from Rosy Small Business Services (Australia) for a globe-spanning discussion on mastering MSP finances. Key topics…
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EP107 – Borrow Smart, Buy Smart—MSP Growth Finance Explained with Alex Fenton
In this episode, hosts Adam Morris and Daniel Welling welcome Alex, a seasoned advisor and former lender, to delve into the complexities of raising funds for growing a Managed Service Provider (MSP) business. They explore the intricacies of mergers and acquisitions (M&A), shedding light on...
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EP106 – MSP Growth in 2025—Is Telesales Part of the Plan with Luke Doyle
The Evolving Role of Telemarketing in MSP Lead Generation In this podcast episode, hosts Adam Morris with Daniel Welling and guest Luke Doyle discuss the current relevance and strategies of telemarketing in the MSP (Managed Service Provider) industry. The guest shares insights into the evolution…
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EP105 – Thinking of Selling Your MSP? Evergreen's Isobelle Coventry Spills Valuation Multiples, Deal Tactics and the UK Acquisition Boom
In this episode, Isobelle joins the podcast to discuss her experiences and insights from working in the UK market, particularly focusing on mergers and acquisitions (M&A) of Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Isobelle talks about Evergreen's growth, including partnering with seven MSP businesses...
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EP104 – Blueprint for a Low-Noise High-Value MSP with Simon Gurner
In this episode, Simon shares his riveting journey from starting as an engineer at Ford Motor Company to founding and growing his own business, Sunrise, over the past 22 years. He discusses his decision to leave Ford, the crucial moments and opportunities that shaped his entrepreneurial path, and...
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EP103 – How MSPs Can Finally Stand Out with Ian Blake
In this podcast episode, host Adam Morris speaks with Ian Blake, an expert on differentiation strategies for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). They discuss the challenges service industries like MSPs face in standing out from the competition. Ian explains how logical thinking, common in the MSP...
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EP102 – You're Probably Bleeding Cash! Tim Hoskins Drops the 3 Bookkeeping Hacks That Can Instantly Pump-Up MSP Profits
In this episode, Tim joins the podcast to share insights into bookkeeping and financial management specifically tailored for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). The discussion covers common challenges faced in the MSP market, tips for effective bookkeeping, and the importance of accurate VAT…
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EP101 – Employee Ownership Trust explainer - benefits and pitfalls with Richard Coulthard
In this episode, Richard Coulthard from Ison Harrison Solicitors joins the hosts to provide a comprehensive look at Employer Ownership Trusts (EOTs). The discussion covers the growing popularity of EOTs in the Managed Service Provider (MSP) space, their tax advantages, the practical aspects and...
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EP100 – MSP Procurement Masterclass with Monica Ozaruk
In this episode, Monica joins the podcast to discuss common procurement challenges faced by Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Introduced by a mutual client, Monica has focused on the procurement module in ConnectWise, which directly impacts the effective production of management accounts. Monica...
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EP099 – Enhancing Cyber Defence: Insights from Nick O'Donovan
In this episode, we reconnect with Nick O'Donovan, who provides an overview of Huntress' operations, particularly their growth and expansion into Europe, with a focus on enhancing relationships with MSPs. He highlights Huntress' efforts in recruiting and maintaining a strong team, despite…
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EP098 – Breaking Barriers: Embracing Coopetition Among MSPs with Shawn Walsh
In this episode, the hosts welcome Shawn, a seasoned MSP expert, to discuss the concept of 'co-opetition,' a blend of cooperation and competition among Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Shawn shares insights from his 25-year journey in the MSP industry, his experience with peer groups, and his...
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EP097 – Winning More MSP Clients with Strategic Podcast Marketing with Devin Rose
In this episode, Devin returns to discuss the value and strategies of podcast advertising for Managed Service Providers (MSPs). The conversation explores how podcast advertising draws parallels with traditional radio advertising and how it serves as a viable brand awareness tool amid the…
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EP096 – From 80s Flashbacks to Modern MSP Hacks. What is the MSP Show and why you need to be there.
In this episode, hosts Adam and Daniel are joined by David and Alex to discuss the origins and rapid growth of the MSP Show, an event dedicated to managed service providers (MSPs) set to take place at the London Excel on May 14th and 15th. The conversation covers the transition from the...
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EP095 – Expert Sales and Lead Generation Strategies with Alex Smith
In this episode, Alex shares insights into effective presentations and sales techniques. Emphasising the importance of neural spikes like the 'one big clap' and the use of the Pomodoro timer, Alex explains how these methods help maintain audience engagement. The discussion continues with lead...
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EP094 – Modernising Legacy Applications for MSPs with Ben Lange
In this episode, Tech Tribe members Daniel and Ben explore the complexities MSPs face when dealing with legacy business applications. They discuss the importance of understanding the client's perspective and the reasons these outdated systems persist. Ben shares strategies for modernising these...
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.
HOSTED BY
Daniel Welling
CATEGORIES
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does It's a Numbers Game have?
It's a Numbers Game currently has 143 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is It's a Numbers Game about?
The MSP Finance Team Podcast "It's a Numbers Game" from the only financial management solution for MSPs in the UK, founded by former MSP-owners.
How often does It's a Numbers Game release new episodes?
It's a Numbers Game publishes regularly with 143 episodes available. Check the episode list for the typical release schedule.
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You can listen to It's a Numbers Game on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts It's a Numbers Game?
It's a Numbers Game is created and hosted by Daniel Welling.
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