Mormon History Podcast – Gospel Tangents – Mormon History Podcast

The Community of Christ has sold the Kirtland Temple and several Nauvoo properties to the LDS Church for a jaw-dropping $200 million. But RLDS finances are still shaky! That money is only expected to keep the church afloat for about five years. Historian John Hamer joins us to explain why he thinks the deal could have been much better, why he’s disappointed there are still no openly gay apostles, and to share his brutally honest thoughts on Steven Veazey’s leadership. Stick around—this conversation pulls no punches. John is the co-author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism. https://youtu.be/E5KnJviUlQM Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Deep Dive into the Kirtland Temple Sale & Path Forward The recent sale of the Kirtland Temple sent shockwaves through the Latter Day Saint movement, and for the Community of Christ (formerly RLDS). It highlighted significant and ongoing financial challenges. John Hamer, a Community of Christ historian and Seventy, has offered candid insights into the church’s financial state, the controversial temple sale, and his hopes for the future. Kirtland Temple Sale: A “Pittance” and a Crisis of Legitimacy The sale of the Kirtland Temple to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) for less than $200 million was a deeply troubling event for many in the Community of Christ. John Hamer describes the price as a “pittance,” emphasizing that the property’s value, particularly in terms of “legitimacy” for the LDS Church, is “priceless” and far exceeds the sale amount. He provocatively suggests that the LDS Church, with its “hundreds of billions of dollars,” would not sell the temple for even $200 billion. A major point of contention was the lack of transparency and consultation surrounding the sale. The decision was made “in secret,” without any input from the World Conference, the church’s “giant legislature”. This went against historical precedent, as a previous General Conference had determined that a revelation would be necessary to sell the Kirtland Temple, which had originally been built by revelation. Hamer views the sale as a missed opportunity, stating that it was sold for “a third of what was necessary” for the church to achieve a “sustainable endowment for operations” (which he estimates would have required $600 million.) He suggested that a wealthy family foundation within the Community of Christ could have acquired the assets for the same price, held them as an investment, and then sold them to the LDS Church for a significantly higher amount later, but this option was not considered. Broader RLDS Financial Woes and Leadership Accountability The Kirtland Temple sale is just one symptom of deeper financial struggles within the Community of Christ: Declining Tithing to Headquarters: Over the 20-year tenure of former prophet-president Steve Veazey, “tithing to headquarters… has gone down so precipitously,” with only around 6,000 members in the United States and Canada contributing to the world church. Hamer attributes this partly to members feeling their input is ignored when resolutions from the World Conference are ruled “out of order” by the executive leadership. High Operating Costs: The Community of Christ headquarters apparatus costs approximately $2.5 million annually to operate, while its current income is less than $10 million. Unsustainable Endowment: The endowment established to perpetually fund the Independence Temple was, in Hamer’s opinion, “invested not like a responsible investor would do” and became “not worth anything” during Veazey’s leadership. Unfunded pension obligations also contributed to the financial crisis. Short-Term Fix: The $200 million from the Kirtland Temple sale is projected to sustain headquarters only until “up through 2030,” after which “anything goes”. This raises concerns about the future of other significant properties, such as the Community of Christ Auditorium (which Hamer argues functions as a temple for the church) and Graceland University, both of which face potential future sale or closure. Hamer is critical of the leadership during this period, suggesting that Steve Veazey should have “take[n] responsibility for the fact that all of this financial loss schemes had happening on your watch and resign yourself”. He contrasts Veazey’s tenure, which he describes as “unmitigated decline,” with earlier presidents like Joseph Smith III and Fred M. Smith, who oversaw significant church growth and modernization. New Leadership and Hope for a “Prophetic People” Despite the financial challenges, Hamer expresses hope for the future under the new prophet-president, Stassi Cramm. He describes her ordination as “electric” and highlights her “incredible competence” and extensive experience as a presiding bishop and apostle. Hamer believes that Cramm has the potential to lead the church toward necessary reforms. He advocates for her to establish a constitutional system for leadership oversight and responsible government, moving beyond a “fixed chain of succession” or a “prophetic monarchy”. This would allow the church to fully embrace its calling to be a “prophetic people,” where all members have input and leaders are accountable. He even suggests term limits for the president, such as a six-year term with the possibility of renewal. Such reforms, he argues, would retroactively legitimize Cramm and her successors by grounding leadership in the collective discernment of the church. Furthermore, Hamer finds inspiration in the decentralized and innovative spirit within the Community of Christ: Local congregations and mission centers, such as his “Beyond the Walls” ministry in Toronto, have demonstrated significant growth and outreach, attracting thousands of subscribers online, many of whom are not from a Restoration background. Members in places like French Polynesia are taking initiative to create their own resources, like French-language pamphlets, rather than waiting for headquarters. While the financial situation at headquarters remains a concern, Hamer is hopeful that Stassi Cramm’s leadership and the self-empowered efforts of the “prophetic people” within the Community of Christ can guide the church toward a meaningful and growing future. Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved  

Are Big Money BYU Sports Compatible with LDS Church Mission? Dr. Matthew Bowman, co-author of “Game Changers,” zeroes in on the ultimate tension in modern collegiate sports: can you balance God, Mammon, and big money athletics? As BYU integrates into the lucrative Big 12 conference, the historic values of amateurism are directly clashing with the pursuit of NBA stardom. https://youtu.be/SZssRvBGiCM Gospel Tangents NEWSLETTER: https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter  Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The Kevin Young Factor While millions of dollars and family-friendly environments played a huge role in landing top recruit AJ Dybantsa, his third reason for choosing BYU was head coach Kevin Young. Young left a highly promising coaching career in the NBA to come to Provo, bringing invaluable professional connections with him. During a recruiting pitch, Young even pulled out his phone, called NBA superstar Kevin Durant—whom he coached in Phoenix—and handed the phone directly to Dybantsa. Young is explicitly selling recruits on his ability to get them to the NBA, cementing college sports as a professional stepping stone. Cautionary Tale of Jimmer Fredette Matt contrasts this new era of “one-and-done” recruits with the legacy of Jimmer Fredette. Bowman describes Fredette as a player built for the traditional amateur college game who was unfairly pushed into the modern “massive media industrial complex” that demands individual celebrity. Unlike Danny Ainge, who thrived by fitting into a cooperative team system and sharing the ball, Fredette was forced to carry the entire team on his back. This intense pressure to be a singular, massive celebrity ultimately did him a disservice when he reached the NBA, making him a cautionary tale of how modern sports media can chew players up. God vs. Mammon on the Hardwood: Is this massive influx of money compatible with BYU’s mission? Bowman argues there is no easy answer. On one hand, church leaders like Henry Eyring have previously expressed that a successful football team acts as a powerful missionary tool. On the other hand, the millions of dollars involved shift the focus away from the character-building, cooperative origins of the sport. Today, the game is increasingly about individual stardom and financial gain, causing significant tension with the university’s spiritual goals. Will BYU Ever Drop Athletics? Given this tension, a popular rumor suggests that future church leaders might eventually eliminate BYU’s sports programs entirely, mirroring the decision made years ago to drop athletics at Ricks College (now BYU-Idaho). However, Bowman believes this is highly unlikely. The financial momentum of BYU athletics is simply too powerful to stop. Between Big 12 television money and the sheer influence of massive donor groups—BYU’s NIL collective, the “Royal Blue,” is reportedly the second-largest in the country behind Kentucky—eliminating the sports programs would result in intense backlash from wealthy boosters. Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved  

Big Money, Big Changes, and Why AJ Dybantsa Picked BYU AJ Dybantsa and just declared for the NBA draft.  We discuss why AJ Dybantsa picked BYU. He’s likely top NBA prospect, and he is reportedly earning millions to play in Provo. Dr. Matthew Bowman, author of Game Changers, dives into the modern reality of college sports and its collision with BYU’s historical values. We explore the massive shifts brought about by NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) deals and how BYU continues to rely on its unique religious culture to recruit top talent. https://youtu.be/EGf8Tya3aQw 0:00 Why AJ Dybantsa Picked BYU 8:45 Protests Against BYU/Recruiting 15:27 Money, Religion, & Sports Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The NIL Revolution and the End of the “Student-Athlete” For decades, the NCAA heavily enforced strict amateurism rules—sometimes to absurd lengths, such as penalizing a player for putting cream cheese on a bagel provided by a coach, or suspending players if a fan took them out to dinner. However, recent lawsuits, spearheaded by former players like Ed O’Bannon, have completely dismantled this restrictive system. Today, athletes can legally profit from their likeness and sign massive endorsement deals. Through BYU’s NIL collective “The Royal Blue,” as well as sponsorships like Crumbl Cookies, AJ Dybantsa is set to make around $5 million to play at BYU. More Than Just a Paycheck While the massive payday is undeniable, Dybantsa’s family stated they requested the exact same monetary offer from all the schools recruiting him—including heavyweights like Kansas and Arkansas—so that his final decision wouldn’t strictly be about the highest bidder. Ultimately, Dybantsa chose BYU because of its strong emphasis on family and its supportive environment. His parents, Ace and Chelsea, actually toured the campus first and were highly impressed by what they saw. This family-centric appeal isn’t just for players. Head coach Kevin Young left a highly promising NBA career trajectory to coach at BYU, specifically because the university environment offered a better work-life balance for his family, including not having to work on Sundays. Navigating Race and Religion on Campus let’s look at the complicated history of race in BYU athletics. During the Ernest Wilkinson era in the 1960s and 70s, the school faced federal investigations and intense protests—such as the Wyoming 14 incident—over its virtually all-white teams and the church’s racial priesthood ban. It wasn’t until the last decade that BYU fielded its first all-black starting five in basketball. Today, recruiting has shifted in fascinating ways. While BYU has historically struggled to recruit Black athletes due to the cultural difficulties of the Honor Code, the university is increasingly finding success by recruiting religious non-LDS players. Many Muslim athletes, for instance, find the Honor Code’s strict ban on alcohol perfectly aligned with their own faith. Dybantsa, whose parents have Catholic roots from the Congo and Jamaica, similarly found BYU’s faith-based environment appealing. Other religious players, like Eastern Orthodox athletes, have also explicitly praised the school for supporting their strong personal faith. The Struggle for BYU’s Soul As BYU competes in the Big 12, it faces a philosophical crossroads. Some Ivy League schools chose to stop chasing athletic scholarship money, allowing their sports programs to recede into purely amateur, educational endeavors. But BYU has taken a different path. The university is now grappling with the tension between its original religious mission and the modern reality of operating what critics call “professional teams with schools attached”. To dive deeper into the fascinating intersection of big money, faith, and the future of BYU athletics, catch the full episode on Patreon.com/GospelTangents! Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

If you think college basketball has changed drastically, wait until you hear about the Global Evolution of LDS Basketball. This happened before the introduction of millions of dollars in NIL deals. Wait until you hear the history of how the sport evolved at BYU and around the world. Dr. Matthew Bowman, co-author of “Game Changers: AJ Dybantsa, BYU, and the Struggle for the Soul of Basketball,” discusses the sport’s explosive, global, and highly controversial growth. https://youtu.be/2jMkUTAVm6s Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved 0:00 All-Church Basketball Championship 3:10 Olympic/International Basketball 9:37 Big Money Basketball at BYU 23:38 Krešimir Ćosić: Best at BYU? If you think college basketball has changed drastically with the introduction of millions of dollars in NIL deals, wait until you hear the history of how the sport evolved at BYU and around the world. Dr. Matthew Bowman, co-author of Game Changers: AJ Dybantsa, BYU, and the Struggle for the Soul of Basketball, shifts the conversation from the Christian origins of the sport to its explosive, global, and highly controversial growth. The Golden Era of the All-Church Tournament Before March Madness dominated the spring, the All-Church basketball tournament was a massive cultural phenomenon. Flourishing after World War II, the tournament featured thousands of teams from wards all over the globe, with regional champions flying into Salt Lake City to compete in the finals at the Deseret Gymnasium. The tournament was so prestigious that Marion D. Hanks actually quit the University of Utah basketball team just to play in the All-Church tournament. The competition was incredibly fierce—wealthy members would even offer jobs and build houses to lure talented players to move into their wards to stack their local team roster. Hoops Diplomacy: Missionaries Take the Court Long before the controversial “baseball baptisms” of the 1960s, LDS missionaries were using basketball as a grassroots tool for international diplomacy. As Americans who had grown up playing the sport, missionaries arriving in places like Europe, Argentina, and Australia were often vastly superior to local club teams. Using the Protestant language of “muscular Christianity,” missionaries challenged local YMCA and national teams, using the games to break down anti-Mormon prejudices and build bridges. Sometimes, they were so good they ended up coaching or playing for national teams. Missionary Ralph Larson, for instance, stayed in Argentina and became a celebrity playing for the Argentine national team. The Battle for BYU’s Soul: Watts vs. Wilkinson As college basketball grew into a lucrative business, a massive ideological battle took place at BYU. On one side was university president Ernest Wilkinson, who fiercely believed in the pure amateur ideal. Wilkinson believed sports were strictly for the personal edification of current students; he despised the idea of athletic scholarships, recruiting players who didn’t fit the university’s academic mission, or bringing in non-LDS ringers. On the other side was legendary BYU basketball coach Stan Watts, who wanted to modernize the program and compete at the highest level. Watts pushed for scholarships, brought the fast break to BYU, and led the team to an NIT championship at Madison Square Garden. This massive victory brought immense publicity and booster money to the school, eventually paving the way for the massive Marriott Center to be built. The Original AJ Dybantsa: Kresimir Cosic Ultimately, Stan Watts’ vision for a modern, competitive basketball program won out over Wilkinson’s strict amateurism, culminating in the arrival of Kresimir Cosic. Arguably the greatest player in BYU history, Cosic was an incredibly gifted 6’11” forward from Yugoslavia who played with the ball-handling skills of a modern guard. Cosic was not LDS and didn’t even know BYU was a religious school when he decided to come. He met a Finnish BYU player at a European tournament, defected during a game in Italy, hopped in a cab, and flew to New York, calling Coach Watts from the airport to announce his arrival. Cosic was so talented he was drafted into the NBA twice, but turned it down to return to his home country. He eventually embraced the LDS faith enthusiastically, forever changing the trajectory of BYU’s basketball program and proving that international, non-LDS talent could thrive in Provo. To hear more about the dark history of the NCAA’s “student-athlete” myth, Kresimir Cosic’s legendary career, and the modern implications for stars like AJ Dybantsa, check out the full episode on Patreon! Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

If you’ve ever stepped inside a Latter-day Saint meetinghouse, you likely noticed almost every LDS Church has basketball court. But have you ever wondered why basketball became the unofficial sport of the church? Dr. Matthew Bowman, the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University discussed his new book, Game Changers: AJ Dybantsa, BYU, and the Struggle for the Soul of Basketball, which he co-authored with BYU alum Wayne LeCheminant. Their fascinating conversation peeled back the historical layers of basketball, revealing that the sport was intentionally designed to promote religious virtue/ https://youtu.be/5K58pElo0CA 0:00 Why Basketball is a Christian Sport 9:10 BYU Banned Football? 12:35 Why LDS Church Adopts Basketball   Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Invention of a “Christian” Sport While many fans know that James Naismith invented basketball using peach baskets in Springfield, Massachusetts, few realize that Naismith explicitly designed basketball to produce “Christian gentlemen”. Naismith was a frustrated minister working at a YMCA training school during the dead of winter. His students were bored with indoor calisthenics, but it was too cold for outdoor sports. To keep them active, Naismith created basketball, drawing heavily on the popular 19th-century concept of “muscular Christianity,” which taught that developing a healthy body was just as important as developing a healthy soul. Unlike other popular sports of the era, Naismith structured basketball around self-sacrifice and fellowship. He believed baseball was too individualistic, focused largely on the isolated duel between pitcher and batter. By contrast, basketball was designed as a game of unending cooperation. The earliest rules only allowed passing or shooting—no dribbling—forcing players to subordinate their individual egos for the good of the team. Civilized Alternative to Football In the 1890s and early 1900s, football was wildly popular but incredibly violent. Without modern helmets or pads, the sport was literally killing dozens of players each season. In 1905 alone, 18 football players died, leading multiple states to consider banning the sport entirely. Because of this brutality, the board of trustees at Brigham Young Academy (now BYU) voted to ban football in 1901. Basketball was championed as the perfect, civilized alternative. It allowed for vigorous physical activity without the deadly consequences, aligning perfectly with the moral framework desired by religious leaders. LDS Church Has Basketball Court As the LDS Church looked to expand out of Utah and into urban centers across the country, basketball offered a logistical advantage. While baseball required large outdoor fields, a basketball court could easily be placed inside a church building right in the middle of a city. During the presidency of Joseph F. Smith, the Church built the massive Deseret Gym in Salt Lake City (where the Conference Center stands today), featuring multiple basketball courts. By the 1920s, the Church formally recommended that wards build “recreation halls” or “amusement halls” under the same roof as their worship spaces. The primary goal of these courts was to attract the youth. Church leaders believed that by offering basketball, they could bring young men off the streets and into the Church building. Because young men were priesthood holders necessary for the formation of new wards, keeping them engaged in wholesome, cooperative activities was seen as crucial to the church’s growth. To hear the full interview and learn more about how modern money is reshaping BYU’s basketball legacy, check out the full episode on Gospel Tangents! What’s Next? Basketball’s role in the Church evolved deeply throughout the 20th century, leading to massive All-Church tournaments and a prominent NCAA footprint at BYU. However, the landscape of college basketball is shifting. Today, athletes like BYU’s AJ Dybantsa are navigating an era of millions of dollars in NIL (Name, Image, and Likeness) money and “one-and-done” draft prospects—developments that past leaders like Ernest Wilkinson would likely have hated. Don’t miss our other discussions with Matthew. https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman Copyright © 2026 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved