Speaking of Cults

This week I welcome former Scientologist and Sea Org member Matt Pesch, someone who joined up in the 1970s, was early friends with Marty Rathbun and had decades of experience in Scientology at its highest levels. This is the first of a series of interviews with Matt to discuss not only his own time in Scientology but also the flavor of the subject and the times in which it has existed. In this episode, we cover Miscavige's early days and how he rose to power, who Marty Rathbun was and how he got involved and what things were like in the much wilder times. Enjoy!

This week I welcome back former Scientologist Natalia Hirsch, originally from Ecuador but who had a wide-ranging life and Scientology experience she is sharing with us. In today's final episode, we cover her experience in WISE and at the Delphi School in Oregon, both Scientology front group operations which are just satellites of Scientology churches. Natalie's story has been fun to feature and I hope you enjoy this one. Join me for my book workshop starting this month! https://ilumn8.life/op/reclaiming-your-mind-and-life-chris-shelton/

This week I welcome back former Scientologist Natalia Hirsch, originally from Ecuador but who had a wide-ranging life and Scientology experience she is sharing with us. In today's show we cover what life and belief is like for Scientologists who are broke or in the lower bands of the socioeconomic ladder. This level of cult membership is a whole different thing from what the rich Scientologists experience.

This week I welcome Ru Marshall, author of the new book American Trickster which is on sale now, about the infamous 1970s cult guru Carlos Castaneda, a man who is still fooling professional academics at major universities with his schtick about Native American spiritualism. This was a sexual predator who gained an outsized amount of influence despite not ever really showing up in public. Ru Marshall breaks it all down for us. Enjoy! Ru Marshall's website: rmarshallstudio.com American Trickster book: https://orbooks.com/catalog/american-trickster/

This week I welcome Carol Merchasin, the Board President of the International Cultic Studies Association and also known as the "Cult Assassin" for her legal work against cultic enterprises in successfully suing them for ex-members. We have a frank discussion about the difficulties of taking on cults legally but why it is so important and necessary to do so. Enjoy! ICSA: https://internationalculticstudies.org/ Carol's email: Carol (at) Merchasinlaw.com

This week I welcome back former Scientologists and musician Geoff Levin to discuss the Art Series and L. Ron Hubbard from a different perspective, that of an artist. There's a lot to say and some interesting analysis which comes out of this. Enjoy! Geoff's website: https://geofflevin.com

This week I welcome back former Scientologist Natalia Hirsch, originally from Ecuador but who had a wide-ranging life and Scientology experience she is sharing with us. In today's show we cover a lot more about WISE, her time as a Golden Age of Tech trainee at Flag and what happened when she became a poor Scientologist in Clearwater along with her family. It takes a heartbreaking twist.

Today I welcome back Jon Atack to continue our series of podcasts to debunk the "basics" of Scientology, one bit at a time. This is a wide-ranging and hopefully interesting discussion where we pull no punches on how we see Scientology. Enjoy! My new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GWJ2VXWV The workshop page: https://ilumn8.life/op/reclaiming-your-mind-and-life-chris-shelton/ Jon's channel:  ⁨@jonatackfamilyfriends6176⁩ 

This week I welcome former Scientologist Natalia Hirsch, originally from Ecuador but who had a wide-ranging life and Scientology experience she is sharing with us starting in today's first part. We cover her beginnings in the mission of Ecuador and run-ins with "higher level" Scientology in Venezuela and with WISE. More to come - enjoy!

This week I welcome back former Scientologists and musician Geoff Levin to discuss a period of time in Scientology when L. Ron Hubbard was fascinated with and was producing music for PR purposes back in 1974. Geoff has an on-the-ground perspective of Hubbard and the Sea Org at that time which I think you'll find very interesting and entertaining too. Enjoy! G eoff's website: https://geofflevin.com

Today I am sharing some recent observations and learning on the subject of narcissism - a timely topic given our current world situation - and relate observations of political philosopher  @VladVexler  to cult leaders and why things are always so madhouse insane around them. Enjoy!

Today I welcome back author and cult survivor Tia Levings, who discuses her upcoming book "I Belong to Me" about her recovery journey and advice for anyone on the same path. Enjoy! Tia's website: https://tialevings.com

Today I welcome Melissa Duge Spiers, author of the new book Holy Disobedience, which is her story of being raised in and dealing with the religious abuse of the 7th Day Adventist cult. We discuss how this group was founded by a literal insane person and how the values of 1850 have NOT translated well to today's world, or to how to raise children in it. Her new book will be releasing in just a few days. I hope you check it out. Melissa on social media: @TheGloryWhole

Today I welcome back musician and artist Geoff Levin, former Scientologist, who has produced a new feature-length documentary, Brothers Broken, telling his story of Scientology abuse and disconnection, and the happy ending he got after escaping the cult. The movie itself is releasing in the next week or so. Enjoy! Geoff Levin website: http://geofflevin.com

Today I welcome back Jon Atack for a new series of podcasts we'll be doing to debunk the "basics" of Scientology, one bit at a time. This is a wide-ranging and hopefully interesting discussion where we pull no punches on how we see Scientology. Enjoy!

Today I welcome Phil Jones, the Executive Director of the Aftermath Foundation, to discuss its purpose, activities and an upcoming fundraiser being held here in Denver on March 11th. Enjoy! The Michael J Rinder Aftermath Foundation: https://theaftermathfoundation.org

Today I welcome back Zach Elwood to discuss body language and how it really works to "read" someone, understand their tells and how to accurately predict what they are going to do. It's a bit more complicated than you may have been told. All of this, of course, directly relates to how predators and cult leaders read their followers and use what they know against them. Zach's podcast: https://behavior-podcast.com

Today I welcome back Dr. Clint Heacock, a former evangelical minister who was born and raised in an evangelical community and has done a great deal of research on what the Christian Nationalist agenda is and how it aligns with Trump, MAGA and Project 2025. Today we revisit these topics and answer the question "What are these MAGA Christians thinking in supporting a mad dictator?" I hope this episode helps shed some light on what is going on with these people and how to talk to them to wake them up from their Christian fever dream. Clint's YouTube channel:  @dismantlingdoctrine 

This week I welcome Ben Eisenberg, someone who grew up in and around Landmark and its teachings, which did not help him in his early life. He's spent quite some time sorting this out and shares his journey with us today including a surprising outcome when he pushed for some change. Enjoy! Ben's article on Medium: https://medium.com/@beneisenberg_10514/my-experience-growing-up-in-landmark-education-landmark-worldwide-1aae2ea2582e

This week we went live for the 100th episode of the Speaking of Cults podcast. I have some personal reflections and experiences to share as a cult expert and human in this world which I hope will be of some use to my listeners.

This week I welcome back Shannon Grover and Bryce Blankenagel to discuss the details of Mormon missionaries and what they actually are called upon to do. It's straight up slave labor under the guise of religious dedication and the Mormon Church is making billions off this free labor. Tune in and find out what is going on and how the Mormons are hiding their blatant abuse and criminality in plain sight. It's quite something. Shannon and Bryce: https://glassboxpodcast.com

This week I welcome Marissa Franks Burt and Kelsey Kramer McGinnis, authors of the new book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting, a deep exploration of the myths that permeate Christian communities throughout the world about what is "good parenting" but which is, in fact, just child abuse. I hope you'll give this one a listen and consider what we have to say. Enjoy! Link to book on Amazon: https://a.co/d/0wrQkhl In the Church Library podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-the-church-library/id1804968736

This week I welcome Cheryl Hope and Richard Marsh from the Get a Life Podcast to discuss the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (formerly Exclusive Brethren), a religion/business group with a fascinating background and even more wild structure which survives to this day through the Hales family in Australia. Cheryl and Richard have quite a bit to share about this. Enjoy! Get a Life Podcast:  ⁨@getalifepodcast⁩ 

We are now back for 2026. This week I welcome back Zach Elwood to discuss so-called "body language experts" and the pseudoscience they push as "infotainment" which actually creates a pretty skewed idea of how people work and what deceptive behavior is all about. We cover a lot in a little bit of time. Enjoy! Zach's YouTube:  ⁨@PeopleWhoReadPeoplepodcast⁩  Munecat video: https://youtu.be/Y0VQyEY-B2I?si=Em_PyU9HGJnSyPYQ

This week I welcome ex-Scientologist Mitch Brisker to discuss his many and varied experiences in dealing with David Miscavige, the leader of Scientology, and how he would be sent to Utah to learn from the Mormons how to produce and present Scientology better to the world. We talk about a lot of things in this podcast around this, including Scientology's future. Enjoy!

This week I welcome back therapist and author Rachel Bernstein to discuss her newly released workbook on cult recovery, titled Restart and Restore. We go over what this workbook is useful for and cult recovery in general and cover a surprising amount of territory for such a short show. Enjoy! Rachel's website: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com Rachel's new book: https://www.amazon.com/Restart-Restore-Journal-Survivors-Manipulation/dp/B0FR4JFV25

This week I welcome back Jennie Gage, creator of Life Take Two on YouTube and a former Mormon MAGA tradwife who has been helping explain that world to us. We cover a lot more territory this week and I think you'll find it very relevant to some of the social insanity that has overtaken the US in the last decade. Jennie's channel:  @lifetaketwo7662 

This week I welcome back Jon Atack to help me dissect the Code of Honor, one of Scientology's earliest and most successful attempts to undermine people's sense of agency and morality. Enjoy! Jon's channel:  ⁨@jonatackfamilyfriends6176⁩ 

This week I welcome Patty Moher, a former Scientologist staffer and kind of amazing person to talk to. We had a great chat about all things Scientology and I hope you'll enjoy it as much as we did.

This week I welcome back Bryce Blankenangel and Shannon Grover for another deep dive into Mormon history and culture, this time digging into a truly horrifying piece of history known as the Meadows Mountain Massacre. This is a bit tough of a listen in places but I think a very good show and I appreciate my guests broad knowledge on this topic. Glassbox podcast: https://glassboxpodcast.com

This week I welcome journalist Tony Ortega to discuss his career, his interest in Scientology and get his perspective on issues related to the church and its leadership. Enjoy! Tony's Substack: https://tonyortega.substack.org Unbreakable Miss Lovely: https://shorturl.at/lKYPw

This week I welcome back Jon Atack to discuss his new book about the common origins of Naziism and Scientology, and then go deep into the REM Model of Human Behavior which I created and how that explains so much of what Hubbard was about, as well as how to undo cultic manipulations. Enjoy!

This week I welcome Zach Elwood, host of the People Who Read People podcast and a very fun guest to discuss the entrepreneurship of influence that is quite popular on social media these days especially as personified by Chase Hughes. Zach discusses his history with NLP and we talk deeply about the consequences of these practices. Enjoy! Zach's channel:  ⁨@PeopleWhoReadPeoplepodcast⁩ 

This week I welcome Jennie Gage, an ex-Mormon/MAGA/trad wife who has a story to tell about her upbringing in the Mormon world, how she was literally trafficked before escaping into abject poverty to rebuild her life from scratch. As part of this, we go deep into the MAGA/Evangelical mindset, since there are such whopping contradictions between what Christian Nationalists say and what they do that it's impossible for most people to reconcile how any of it makes sense. Jennie helps up unpack all of that and both of us have a lot to say about it. Enjoy! Jennie's channel:  ⁨@lifetaketwo7662⁩ 

This week I welcome Bethany Leger, host of the Stop the Shunning podcast and a former member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. She has a few interesting twists in her childhood growing up in the JWs and we had a lot to discuss in recovering from the cult experience. Bethany's channel: https://youtube.com/stoptheshunning⁩ 

This week I welcome Michael Shemwell, host of the Shunned podcast and a former member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. We met while filming the Jubilee production about cults and here discuss our mutual experiences and the ups and downs of cult recovery. Michael's podcast: https://shunnedpodcast.com

This week I welcome back Pamela Nickel Williams, whose new memoir about her time growing up in and around Scientology has now been released. Pam has quite a story to tell and I hope you'll give it a look. Pamela's Website: https://clearlyliesaretrue.com

This week I welcome back podcast favorite Jon Atack to discuss his brand-new book, "If Scientology Ruled the World: Nazi Occultists, Sex Magick, Space Aliens, and the Second Coming." This book is as wild as it sounds and uncovers some things I can almost guarantee you have never heard or seen before regarding the common origin story of the Nazi's Aryan race theory and Hubbard's ideas about body thetans and spiritual rehabilitation. Enjoy! Link to Jon's website: https://jonatack.co.uk/ Link to book: https://www.amazon.com/If-Scientology-Ruled-World-Occultists-ebook/dp/B0FP5PMNJT

This week I welcome back Bryce Blankenagel and Shannon Grover to discuss events the Mormon Church would rather you don't know about. There's a lot and we only scratch the surface in this episode. Enjoy! Bryce and Shannon's podcast: https://glassboxpodcast.com Note: this podcast had an audio issue and had to be re-uploaded. Sorry for any confusion about that.

This week I welcome author Jane Borden, who recently published Cults Like US about the cult roots of American society and how these have perpetuated to this day in many of the moral and social values we take for granted or just don't think about too much. We have a lot of food for thought for you in this one. Enjoy! Jane Borden's website: https://janeborden.com

This week I am revisiting the REM Model (TM) and discussing more real-world examples of how it might be used to help figure out or understand ourselves and other people and why we do some of the crazy stuff we do. Enjoy!

In this week's shorter-than-usual podcast, I give a full rundown on the indictment and trial of Sean Combs and why it was that he completely got away with years of domestic abuse and coercion. "Diddy" turned his business into a sex-trafficking criminal enterprise (allegedly) and there will be no justice for his victims because of how our laws and justice system operate. You'll understand why after you hear this. 

Here is your explanation for why people act the way they do, why people join and stay in cults and why people will fight to the death for some of the most irrational and hateful beliefs and ideas. If you've ever run into anyone that you just couldn't understand, this podcast is going to help you finally figure that out. Enjoy!

This week I welcome Ewan Whyte, a man who grew up in an incredibly abusive Christian Nationalist group called the Community of Jesus and who was sent to Grenville College - a boarding school under the leadership of this cult. His story has a happier ending than most and he had difficulty talking about some aspects of his experience but I hope this podcast will still be informative of his experience and a cautionary tale about giving over your life to a belief system that is really nothing more than human cruelty. Ewan's website: https://ewanwhyte.com

Imagine being born into slavery in Mexico as a female in a Mormon polygamist cult that treats all women like chattel, not good for anything but doing what they are told and making babies. That's what my guest, Pamela Jones, escaped from after being raised amongst seriously violent religious extremists (who are still operating their cult in Mexico and are richer than ever). As an adult, she got out with all nine of her children and started a new life in the US. Pamela has an upcoming book about her experience releasing in September but she shared highlights of her story with me in this week's podcast. It's simply unbelievable what some men are willing and able to do when they feel empowered with righteousness. The good news is that Pamela has made an incredible life for herself and her family and there is a happy ending to this. Enjoy! Pamela's website: https://PamelaSpeaks.live

This week I am bringing back Jason Horvatic, a former Scientologist who came out publicly about two years ago and had some contentious views and statements to make about me, Scientology and his own views about his experiences. Well, the road to recovery has many pitfalls and dark alleyways that people can go down, but they can also come right back out again. This podcast is a pretty plain English discussion about all of this and where Jason is at now. I hope this will be of interest and it helps. Enjoy!

This week I am welcoming back Dr. Maurice Turmel aka "Dr Moe" to discuss religious trauma and his new book on the subject. We go over a number of key principles underlying religious trauma which I think might help anyone who is overcoming an abusive religious background. Hope this one helps! Dr. Turmel's website: https://drmoe2000.bandcamp.com

I'm posting this bonus podcast mid-week since I didn't want to delay getting this information and interview with Dr. Clint Heacock out to you. Project Esther is one part of a series of actions being taken by the White House to repress free speech and demonstrations and curtail our rights. Current events are running at a lightning pace and I want to do my part to help inform you what is actually going on in the US right now. Links discussed: Dismantling Doctrine podcast: https://mindshiftpodcast.podbean.com/ Project Esther: https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/report/project-esther-national-strategy-combat-antisemitism Heritage Foundation: https://www.heritage.org/ MSNBC report on Project Esther: https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-antisemitism-project-esther-heritage-palestinian-rcna207935  

This week I welcome Patrick Ryan, a cult intervention specialist who has been working in the field for 40 years and definitely knows what he's talking about, having helped thousands of people one-on-one to leave destructive cults and abusive situations. In today's show, we go right to the heart of what it takes to engage with and help cult members and it's not any easy walk in the park, yet it's also so simple that it's kind of hard to believe. Enjoy! Pat's website: https://cultrecovery101.com

This week I welcome back Dr. Jonathan Stea, author of "Mind the Science" and a real pleasure to talk to about the harms and pitfalls of science denialism, health fads and pseudoscience. In this age of post-truth nonsense all over social media and in our government, this is a vital topic for us to do something about. I hope you'll give it a listen. Enjoy! Jonathan's website: https://jonathanstea.com