State of the Second

This week Stephen Bozich of Bare Arms joins John and Kailey to argue that the Gun Control Act of 1968 never restricted firearms. It restricted commerce in firearms. Nearly everything regulated downstream of it hangs on somebody being "engaged in the business.” As well as, generational misinformation in firearms education, and why you shouldn't expect a government funded school to teach you the limits of government.----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, Lady Liberty Australia joins John and Kailey to explain what life actually looks like without a Second Amendment: a 12-month wait to buy a single pistol, mandatory registration, police who can search your gun safe without a warrant, and a home invasion she was legally barred from stopping with the firearm locked in her own house.She fled to Texas as a political exile. Now she's warning America about the road Australia went down, and why the ATF's registry should terrify you.----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Vince from Kore Essentials for one of the more honest conversations we've had on this show about the state of the firearms industry; what it gets wrong about new shooters, what it gets wrong about women, and why the people loudest online about wanting innovation are the same ones killing it. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week Cody Bennion of Jaguar Silencers joins Kailey and John to talk 3D-printed cans in Inconel and titanium, why nobody in this industry measures decibels the same way, and why he has suppressors on his desk with 15,000 rounds through them that still don't need cleaning. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

Kailey and John welcome back Rachel from Night Fision, the team behind Night Fision night sights, Glow Rhino, Cammenga compasses, and now Zaffiri Precision. Rachel breaks down why a sights company bought a slide maker, the push to own "everything north of the frame," what platforms are getting support next (Glock Gen 6, Ruger RXM, the P365), and why "do it right, not fast" beats rushing product out the door. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, Kailey and John sit down with Scott Volquartsen of Volquartsen Firearms, the Iowa family company building rimfire's finest since 1974. Scott makes the case that the humble .22 is the best on-ramp to the Second Amendment, explains how suppressors reshaped rimfire, argues the .22 Magnum is criminally underrated, and calls out the "high speed, low drag" marketing that's costing the industry its next generation of shooters.-----------------------Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season!Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today.Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week John and Kailey sit down with Carlie Bodiford to talk about going from college TikToks to 700K+ followers, using humor to reach people who've never touched a gun, and why the future of the Second Amendment comes down to one conversation at a time. Stick around for a spicy From the Soapbox. ___________Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, Kailey sits down with Joey from Attorneys for Freedom, the law firm behind the Attorneys on Retainer program, to walk through what actually happens after a self-defense event, and the mistakes that turn a lawful shooting into a courtroom nightmare. AOR is at GOALS 2026. Come by Booth 2712 on Saturday, August 1 at 11 AM. Use promo code STATE OF THE SECOND for $50 off an individual plan or $25 off a family plan at attorneysonretainer.us. ___________Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals. ----------------------- Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season! Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today. Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Jim of Steyr Arms to get into the AUG's rise to one of the most-fielded rifles in the world, the surprising Steyr link to the Mercedes G-Wagon, the new AREX pistol collaboration, and the engineering behind the Safe Bolt System, including the over-pressure test that lets a shooter walk away from a completely blocked barrel. Jim also breaks down the legendary Steyr Scout, the only rifle that meets every one of Jeff Cooper's original requirements, and why he's taken more game with it than his other 62 hunting rifles combined.___________Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals.-----------------------Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season!Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today.Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, John and Nate from Nine Line Apparel are back for round two, and it goes everywhere: the new Gun Owners of America x Nine Line collab, why Gen Z is rediscovering patriotism, and the right way to welcome a first-time shooter to the range. Plus the live AR that sat on YouTube for 24 hours and did nothing.Grab the GOA x Nine Line gear__________Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals.-----------------------Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season!Kershaw Knives - Built for the everyday carry, ready for anything. Get your Kershaw today.Patriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

This week, John and Kailey sit down with Drew and Jeremy from One Horse to talk about building a 100% American-made AR that any gun owner can afford, and to drop a major announcement you won't want to miss.From 13 years at Anderson to launching their own brand in eight months, they break down what the "poverty pony" label gets wrong, how a quality American-made rifle lands at around $600, and why they refuse to chase the race to the bottom.___________Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals.-----------------------Special thanks to our sponsor for supporting this season!Ammo Squared -The smarter way to stockpile ammo, one round at a time. Start your ammo savings todayPatriot Mobile – Get 1 month free with code “GOA” at checkout on their website!Right To Bear - Use code “GOA” for 15% off Life Membership

Alex from Caliber Row joins hosts Kaylee and John to talk about what she calls one of the coolest jobs in the firearms industry: photographing and filming brands. Alex runs Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. Her path started in Chicago, where she grew up on the Southside and shot in the fashion industry with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to a job at apparel company GrunStyle, got hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. Much of the conversation is about women coming into a male-dominated industry. Alex says women are entering the space more than ever, and most of them are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She also pushes back on a mindset she sees in some women who want to dominate or exclude men, arguing the industry should be a respected, equal space and that men built it. Kaylee, who is five feet tall and wears a child-size large glove, talks about how few options existed for someone her size when she bought her first gun, and how the influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics, pointing to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work for people with limited mobility. Both hosts and Alex agree the community is growing stronger, not weaker, and that the Second Amendment community is made of many different subgroups that should row in the same direction. Alex describes the impact photography has in reaching people who are gun curious or hesitant, using her own story of moving from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes. She talks about acting as a fly on the wall on shoots, keeping the focus on the brand and the people rather than herself, and about how shoots bring veterans and groups together. She shares her favorite and wildest shoots, including photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and being on a C-130 and a Sherman tank, and she walks through her growing collection from the Glock 43X to a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. The episode closes with a spicy segment on flying with firearms, where John and Kaylee hammer the lack of standard TSA rules airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, theft of gear in transit, and the need for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state. Questions this episode answers What is Caliber Row and what does Alex do in the firearms industry? Caliber Row is Alex's company, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. She tells brands' stories visually, capturing the brand and its people rather than putting herself in the frame. How did Alex go from shooting fashion in Chicago to firearms photography? Alex shot fashion in Chicago with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to apparel company GrunStyle, was hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed six years as it moved from Chicago to Texas to Arizona. What is it like to be a woman entering a male-dominated firearms industry? Alex says women are entering the space more than ever and most are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She argues the industry should be a respected, equal space and pushes back on the mindset that women should dominate or exclude men. How has the growth of new gun owners changed firearm design and ergonomics? The influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics for people who were underserved before. Hosts point to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work well for shooters with smaller hands or limited mobility. How can photography and storytelling reach people who are hesitant or gun curious? Alex believes photography and videography make the space relatable and remind people they share common ground. She draws on her own move from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes, to connect with those who are hesitant or curious. What were the wildest and coolest shoots Alex has ever captured? Alex's most memorable shoots include photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and working on a C-130 and a Sherman tank. She describes acting as a fly on the wall, keeping the focus on the brand and the people in front of her. What firearms are in Alex's personal collection, starting with her first gun? Alex's first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection has grown to include a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. What problems do gun owners face when flying with firearms through TSA? The hosts hammer the lack of standard TSA rules from airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, and theft of gear in transit. They call for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Alex from Caliber Row 00:28 — What Caliber Row is and what Alex shoots 01:12 — From Chicago fashion to GrunStyle and firearms 03:13 — Being a woman entering the firearms industry 05:30 — Wildest shoots: skydivers, C-130, Sherman tank 07:38 — Equality, not dominance, for women in the space 11:01 — A growing, more diverse industry and innovation 17:06 — Cliques and gatekeeping in the community 18:58 — The Second Amendment community is not monolithic 24:24 — How photography reaches the gun curious 27:18 — Alex's character arc from anti-gun to pro-gun 30:11 — Alex's collection from Glock 43X to MP5 and POF 32:42 — Spicy segment: flying with firearms and TSA 43:57 — Where to find Alex and GOALS Convention About the guest Alex is the founder of Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing within the firearms industry. Born and raised on the Southside of Chicago, she started out in the fashion industry, shooting for agencies including Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She joined apparel company GrunStyle, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. She grew up in a military family and has been doing firearms photography for over ten years. Her first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection now includes a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. Key quotes "So I am here to tell all y' all stories visually and creatively to represent your brands." — Alex "I had to prove that I knew what I was talking about and what I was shooting and the quality of things" — Alex "The day you stop learning is I think the day you become complacent." — Alex "we're seeing more of a community built between the relationship of the company and the end consumer" — Kaylee "photography and videography can be a huge source of visualization to just be relatable to people and to remind people that we all share the same space" — Alex "once you want to learn, I think it's not, it's not as scary as people think it is" — Alex

Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops join Kaylee and John on State of the Second to tell the story of how a single patch grew into a business. It started in 2018, when the couple wanted to send their kids to private school and Tim calculated they needed to make $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, had been introduced to patches by an Army friend, and there was nothing on the market for Marines at the time. He made an 0331 MOS patch because he wanted one for himself, sent it to his fellow Marines, and the demand kept climbing. About three months after they launched, the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, and the market for Marine Corps patches opened up fast. Patch Ops turns eight years old in a couple months and has grown every year, starting from a $3,000 nest egg. The conversation moves into how the company operates and why staying close to the community matters. Tim says he is part of his own customer base, so if a design makes him laugh, he trusts that others will feel the same. The team works fast on pop culture moments, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. They test ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the ones that get a response become patches. Michelle, who came from the corporate world and left it during COVID to run day-to-day operations, explains the value of having both trickle sellers and fast sellers so the business stays afloat between hits. Tim describes their model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, and says he won't sacrifice his values for profit. Much of the episode is a broader talk about activism, media, and standing up for the Second Amendment. Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first. Kaylee points to GOA's tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that helps people check a representative's actual record. Both sides warn about bills written to play on emotion, with firearms regulations hidden inside unrelated legislation, and about a media environment that rewards outrage over reason. They also push back on cancel culture and the loss of humor, and on judging people on their own side by how they look. Patch Ops closes by sharing new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, their custom and retail focus, and the piece of candy that comes in every order. Questions this episode answers How did Patch Ops get started, and what was the original goal behind it? Patch Ops began in 2018 when Tim and Michelle wanted to send their kids to private school and calculated they needed to make about $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, made an 0331 MOS patch he wanted for himself, sent it to fellow Marines, and demand kept climbing from there. Why was there a gap in the market for Marine Corps patches when the company launched? When Patch Ops started, there was nothing on the market made for Marines. About three months after launch the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, which opened the market for Marine Corps patches almost overnight. How does Patch Ops decide which pop culture moments are worth turning into a patch? Tim treats himself as part of the customer base, so if a design makes him laugh he trusts others will feel the same. The team moves fast, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. How does the company test new designs before committing to producing them? Patch Ops tests ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the designs that get a strong response become patches. This lets the team see what lands before committing to a full patch run. What does Tim mean by profit by volume, and why won't he chase the big single order? Tim describes the model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, with both trickle sellers and fast sellers keeping the business afloat between hits. He says he won't sacrifice his values for profit. Why does Tim say likes don't equal rights, and what does he want influencers to do? Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first rather than just chasing engagement. The point is to turn online attention into real action for the Second Amendment, or 2A. How do lawmakers hide gun control inside unrelated bills, and how does Gun Owners of America help people see through it? Both sides warn that firearms regulations get hidden inside unrelated legislation written to play on emotion. Kaylee points to Gun Owners of America tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that shows a representative's actual record. What is the new NFC-chip patch technology Patch Ops filed a patent for? Patch Ops shared new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, alongside their custom and retail focus. The episode notes a piece of candy comes in every order. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops 00:19 — The 2018 origin story and the $50-a-day goal 01:28 — Velcro on Marine gear opens the market 02:12 — Betting the $3,000 nest egg and women in the 2A 04:53 — From military patches into pop culture 08:55 — Memes, trends, and turning designs around in two hours 11:18 — Trickle sellers versus fast sellers 13:51 — Staying close to the community over chasing the dollar 17:52 — Be the example and influence your own community first 20:53 — Momentum and emailing Congress in 30 seconds 28:32 — How bills hide gun control and play on emotion 38:07 — From the Soapbox: comedy, cancel culture, and taking a joke 42:52 — Welcoming people in instead of pushing them out 46:50 — NFC-chip patches, custom work, and the candy in every order About the guest Tim is a co-founder of Patch Ops and a Marine Corps veteran who served in the infantry as a machine gunner, with the MOS 0331. He started the company in 2018 after an Army friend introduced him to patches, beginning with a Marine MOS patch he wanted for himself. He also runs another company as an engineer. Michelle co-founded Patch Ops and runs the day-to-day operations. She came from the corporate world and left it during COVID, about four years before this episode, to work for the company full time, and she is married to Tim. The couple is active politically at the local and state level. Key quotes "we needed to make $50 more a day to afford the private school system" — Tim "we're part of our own customer base" — Tim "I'm not going to sacrifice my values for profit" — Tim "likes don't equal rights" — Tim "Encourage creates courage" — Michelle "The Constitution restricts the government, not the people" — Tim

Tony Simon, founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot, joins John and Kaylee to trace how he went from a gun kid on a Virginia farm to one of the most active Second Amendment advocates in New Jersey. He grew up on a farm in Virginia, shot on his high school air rifle team, and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out he moved to New Jersey, where the state's firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled it. He became an NRA certified instructor in rifle, pistol, and shotgun, and when Sandy Hook hit and New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills to impede gun rights, he got into advocacy. As the only black guy testifying out of 200 people, he realized the movement needed more people who looked like him to speak up. That realization became the 2A Diversity Shoot. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would come, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Colandro pushed him to keep running it until the room filled, then overfilled past fire code. Today Tony runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four different ranges across New Jersey, ran one in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, and the events now sell out. Each event mixes pizza, raffle prizes, jokes, and a lot of shooting, with the goal of normalizing firearms ownership for people of every background. The conversation turns to a blunt message about complacency. Tony, originally from Virginia, describes watching his home state go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over because people stopped participating and stopped voting in local and primary elections. He argues that local elections matter more than the presidential race, that gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that even people worried about being put on a list can still fund others' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. The From the Soapbox segment gets spicy, including Tony's take questioning how 'don't tread on me' squares with backing the thin blue line, and a running High Point versus Staccato bit. Kaylee closes with her own take that gun owners are getting elections wrong by accepting apathy, noting GOA's website lets you act in about 33 seconds and that five minutes a week could be transformative. Questions this episode answers How did Tony Simon get into firearms and Second Amendment advocacy? Tony Simon grew up on a Virginia farm, shot on his high school air rifle team, and served in the Marine Corps before moving to New Jersey. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled his interest, and after Sandy Hook prompted 76 New Jersey bills he saw as anti-gun, he got into advocacy. What is the 2A Diversity Shoot and how did it start? The 2A Diversity Shoot is a series of events that bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. Tony Simon launched it in 2015 after partnering with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range. Why does Tony Simon say local and primary elections matter more than the presidential election? Tony Simon argues that local and primary elections decide the policies and officials closest to gun owners, so they carry more weight than the presidential race. He says gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that consistent local participation is what protects rights. What lesson does Tony Simon draw from Virginia's shift on gun laws? Tony Simon watched his home state of Virginia go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over once people stopped voting in local and primary elections. His takeaway is that complacency, not a single election, is what flips a state's gun politics. How can gun owners take action even if they're worried about being put on a list? Tony Simon says even people worried about being on a list can still fund other advocates' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. Kaylee adds that Gun Owners of America's website lets you act in about 33 seconds, and that five minutes a week could be transformative. What happened at the first diversity shoot event? The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would attend, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Anthony Colandro pushed Tony Simon to keep running it until the room filled, and it later overfilled past fire code. How big has the 2A Diversity Shoot grown? Tony Simon now runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four New Jersey ranges, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and held one in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. The sold-out events mix shooting with pizza, raffles, and jokes to normalize firearms ownership for everyone. Where can people find the 2A Diversity Shoot and follow Tony Simon? Tony Simon runs the 2A Diversity Shoot at diversityshoot.com and can be followed on Instagram at simonsaystrain. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Tony Simon, the gun bunny 01:55 — From a Virginia farm to New Jersey gun laws 03:30 — Sandy Hook, 76 bills, and getting into advocacy 04:19 — Starting the diversity shoot with Anthony Colandro 05:39 — The first event and the undercover cop 07:08 — Growing through COVID and across the state 09:40 — Have you seen victories in New Jersey 10:54 — Fight back: vote local and primaries 13:30 — How fast a state turns from red to blue 16:12 — Holding the pro-2A side accountable 19:33 — Normalizing firearms for every background 27:53 — From the Soapbox: spicy takes 30:38 — Apathy, ignorance, and 33 seconds to act 36:18 — Where to find Tony and goodbyes About the guest Tony Simon is the founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot (diversityshoot.com). Born and raised on a farm in Virginia, he shot on his high school air rifle team and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out, he moved to New Jersey, where firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. In 2012 he took a class from an NRA certified instructor friend and became an NRA certified instructor himself in rifle, pistol, and shotgun. After Sandy Hook, when New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills he saw as impeding gun rights, he got into advocacy and spent three years testifying, often as the only black person out of 200 people testifying. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to launch the diversity shoot. He now runs events every two weeks at four ranges across New Jersey, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a diversity shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. He says he has been in New Jersey since the early 90s. Key quotes "Being a patriot isn't a part time job." — Tony Simon "Your local election is more important than the presidential election." — Tony Simon "We have so many gun owners. Again, they say all the right things, but they perform none of the actions." — Tony Simon "When you say don't tread on me, but you support the thin blue line, who do you think's doing the treading?" — Tony Simon "We have decided that apathy is acceptable and then we want to complain when things happen to the second amendment rather than understanding that ignorance is a curable disease." — Kaylee "I owe no loyalty to a political party." — Tony Simon

John McClane of Rock Island Armory joins hosts Kaylee and John to talk about how a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines built a recoil system he believes other manufacturers will copy once the patent runs out. John shares his path into the industry, from a closet gun owner who hid his first rifle under the bed for a year and a half, to a C-class USPSA shooter, to multiple Grand Master cards on Team Armscore. A chance EMT call between Vegas and Pahrump introduced him to the owner's family at Armscore and Rock Island, which led to a developmental shooting program, a sponsorship, and eventually his role as national training manager. The conversation centers on the company's product philosophy and its newest guns. John explains the late CEO Martin Tuason's stance on keeping firearms reliable and affordable, and why Rock Island refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive. He walks through the patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0, a pistol that took seven years to develop and that he says shoots like it has a compensator with a standard slide and barrel. He also covers the new Pack Out folding firearm in 14-inch and 18-inch barrel versions, the RIA USA factory in Cedar City, and the .22 TCM round and its 9R redesign that now fits Glock and CZ magazines. The TCM line is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is working to finalize. The episode closes with the From the Soapbox segment on a knowledge gap among post-COVID first-time gun owners. John argues the information is out there and the real problem is whether people seek it and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He makes the case that one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good, and that the community gets stronger when experienced owners remember what it felt like to know nothing. He also explains Arms Corps U, his YouTube broadcast built to answer customer questions and drive demand for Rock Island products by name through distributors. Questions this episode answers How did John McClane go from a self-described closet gun owner to a sponsored Team Armscore competitor? He hid his first rifle under his bed for a year and a half, then shot USPSA as a C-class competitor. A chance EMT call near Pahrump connected him to the Armscore and Rock Island owner's family, leading to a developmental program, a sponsorship, and his role as national training manager. What is the RVS recoil system in the 5.0, and why does John think it could become an industry standard? The RVS is a patented recoil system in Rock Island Armory's 5.0 pistol, which took seven years to develop and, McClane says, shoots like it has a compensator while using a standard slide and barrel. He believes that once the patent runs out, other manufacturers will copy the system and make it the new standard. Why does Rock Island Armory keep its prices low instead of raising them to seem more premium? McClane points to late CEO Martin Tuason's philosophy of keeping firearms reliable and affordable. The company refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive, because a higher price could put a gun out of reach for a buyer who would otherwise afford it. What is the difference between Rock Island and Rock Island Armory USA? Rock Island Armory traces to a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines, while Rock Island Armory USA is the brand's domestic factory operation in Cedar City. How does the Pack Out folding firearm work, and what are the two barrel versions? The Pack Out is a new folding firearm from Rock Island Armory, offered in a 14-inch barrel version and an 18-inch barrel version. What is the .22 TCM round, and why is SAAMI spec holding it back? The .22 TCM is a Rock Island Armory cartridge whose 9R redesign now fits Glock and CZ magazines. Its broader rollout is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is still working to finalize. Is there a knowledge gap with post-COVID first-time gun owners, and whose responsibility is it to close it? McClane argues the information is already out there, so the real questions are whether new owners seek it out and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He says one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and the retired fancy pants 01:16 — John's backstory and getting into the industry 02:43 — From C class to Team Armscore sponsorship 04:48 — Remembering CEO Martin Tuason 07:42 — Reliable and affordable: the pricing philosophy 10:57 — RIA USA, Cedar City, and the Pack Out 13:34 — The patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0 15:10 — From custom build to production gun 20:19 — Will fear of pushback hold back innovation? 22:00 — The .22 TCM round and the 9R redesign 28:18 — Soapbox: the post-COVID knowledge gap 32:15 — Patience behind the gun counter 38:02 — Arms Corps U and asking for products by name 41:26 — Where to find John and Rock Island About the guest John McClane is the national training manager at Rock Island Armory / Armscore, a role created for him after years as a sponsored competitor. He started shooting USPSA at the local level as a C-class shooter and has since earned multiple Grand Master cards, competing on Team Armscore and placing on the podium at Three Gun Nation and the Single Stack Nationals. He first met the owner's family of Armscore and Rock Island while working as an EMT for American Medical Response, responding to a car accident between Vegas and Pahrump. He shot the 5.0 at the world shoot in South Africa. He also runs Arms Corps U, a YouTube broadcast, and FPS Holsters, a holster company he started in his garage. Key quotes "So it all started when my parents told me that guns were bad." — John McClane "I bought my first rifle, and I hid it under my bed for a year and a half without my parents knowing." — John McClane "If I up the price by $100, someone might not be able to afford my gun anymore." — John McClane "I'm honestly a firm believer that once our patent runs out on that RVs recoil system, I would not be surprised if you started seeing that recoil system becoming the new standard for a lot of companies." — John McClane "That's actually just the start of your problems because in order to develop that gun and create the first version of it took you three years." — John McClane "So I think the information's out there. The question is whether or not the person wants to seek it out." — John McClane "You can make a lifetime customer out of a bad experience if you handle it correctly." — John McClane "We can make this community so much stronger if we just stopped self destructing ourselves." — John McClane

Roy Harrell joins State of the Second to talk about taking over his late brother Paul Harrell's firearms YouTube channel and keeping its practical, no-hype approach alive. Roy has been a cop for 37 years, started his law enforcement career in 1988 carrying a revolver, and has done hunter safety and firearms instructing, the same work his and Paul's father did. When Paul got sick, the brothers talked about the future of the channel and Paul asked Roy to take it over. They spent the next nine months before Paul passed working on videos together, with Paul giving pointers along the way. Roy is candid that being in front of the camera is intimidating, that it is not a one-take job, and that he doesn't write out full scripts the way Paul could, so the crew now films shorter monologues to keep takes manageable. Roy lays out how he picks video ideas. He checks whether Paul already covered a topic, then puts his own spin on it, and he pulls heavily from viewer comments and emails. The channel aims at the common man rather than the latest black guns, new Staccatos, or every AR platform. That means older firearms, ammo comparisons, and lower-recoil calibers like the .32, .22, and .25 that older shooters and people with arthritic hands keep asking about. Roy walks through a recent video on transitioning from a long gun to a handgun for someone who isn't in full battle-belt defense mode, and he shares his interest in historic law enforcement events like the Newhall shootout and old 1960s and 70s police training films. He brings a long firsthand view of the field, from the switch from revolvers to Glocks to carrying an M16A1 in Marine Corps boot camp. The soapbox segment turns to Oregon. Roy explains that 114, which would ban magazines over 10 rounds and require a permit and a class to buy a firearm, is sitting with the Oregon Supreme Court, and that the legislature is already writing new laws to keep the fight going. He wants to see the data behind the claim that a 10-round limit saves lives, points out there is no exception for someone with his age and experience to skip the class, and warns the rules would flood sheriff's offices and could put small gun stores out of business during a long pause in sales. He ties the shift to the greater Portland metro area outvoting the rest of the state and points listeners to groups like the Oregon Firearms Coalition. Roy closes on review integrity. Paul never took sponsors, and Roy is entering that world carefully, giving honest reviews even when a product fails. You can find the channel on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms, still listed under Paul as a nod to him. Questions this episode answers How did Roy Harrell end up taking over Paul Harrell's firearms YouTube channel? When his brother Paul got sick, the two discussed the channel's future and Paul asked Roy to take it over. They worked on videos together for the nine months before Paul passed, with Paul giving him pointers along the way. What is it like for Roy to go from behind the camera to in front of it? Roy is candid that being on camera is intimidating and not a one-take job. Unlike Paul, he doesn't write out full scripts, so the crew now films shorter monologues to keep the takes manageable. How does Roy decide what videos to make, and how does he handle topics Paul already covered? Roy checks whether Paul already covered a topic, then puts his own spin on it. He pulls his ideas heavily from viewer comments and emails. Why does the channel focus on older firearms and lower-recoil calibers instead of the latest AR platforms? The channel aims at the common man rather than the newest black guns or AR platforms. That means older firearms, ammo comparisons, and lower-recoil calibers like the .32, .22, and .25 that older shooters and people with arthritic hands keep asking about. What is Oregon's Measure 114 and where does it stand legally? Measure 114 would ban magazines over 10 rounds and require a permit and a class to buy a firearm. Roy says it is sitting with the Oregon Supreme Court while the legislature already writes new laws to keep the fight going. Why does Roy believe the permit and magazine law would hurt sheriff's offices and small gun stores? Roy warns the permit requirement would flood sheriff's offices and that a long pause in sales could put small gun stores out of business. He also wants to see the data behind the claim that a 10-round limit saves lives and notes there is no exception for someone with his age and experience to skip the class. How does Roy handle reviews when a product doesn't meet its claims, and why does sponsorship integrity matter to him? Roy gives honest reviews even when a product fails. Paul never took sponsors, so Roy is entering that world carefully to protect the channel's integrity. Where can listeners find Roy and the channel? The channel is on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms. It is still listed under Paul Harrell's name as a nod to him. Chapters 00:00 — Intro: Roy Harrell, the man behind the camera 00:41 — Roy's backstory and how he took over the channel 02:05 — Stepping in front of the camera 04:53 — Growing up around firearms and a love of teaching 07:13 — How Roy comes up with video ideas 09:09 — Serving the common man, not the black guns 10:18 — Transitioning from long gun to handgun 11:58 — The interest in .22, .25, and .32 calibers 15:01 — Historic shootouts and old police training films 19:43 — Living through the shift from revolvers to Glocks 21:04 — Revolvers, capacity, and how much ammo you really need 24:35 — Soapbox: Oregon's 114 32:54 — How Oregon got here and how to push back 34:50 — Honest reviews and entering the sponsor world 40:02 — Where to find the channel and closing About the guest Roy Harrell is the brother of the late Paul Harrell and the person who now runs Paul's firearms YouTube channel, which he took over at Paul's request after Paul got sick. He has been a law enforcement officer for 37 years, starting in 1988 carrying a revolver, and the host introduces him as a former deputy sheriff. He is a longtime hunter safety and firearms instructor, the same work his and Paul's father did. He went through Marine Corps boot camp with an M16A1 and served as active duty Air Force, including time in Honduras. He has lived in Oregon his entire life. The channel can be found on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms and is still listed under Paul Harrell's name as a nod to him. Key quotes "And he basically said, why don't you take over the channel?" — Roy Harrell "Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong, you know." — Roy Harrell "We give honest reviews on the things we evaluate" — Roy Harrell "I would love to see their data on where they say those are saving lives." — Roy Harrell "We are very delicately entering that world because we want to keep our integrity." — Roy Harrell "They're all really good. And then it's a matter of finding what fits you the best and your needs the best." — Roy Harrell

Anna Taylor joins State of the Second to tell the story behind Dean Adams, the concealed carry company she built after a frustrating start with her own first gun. In 2013 she was a stay at home mom with four young kids in a shady part of Kansas City called Grandview, and her husband at the time traveled often. The conversations around Sandy Hook and the fear of losing rights pushed her to get her concealed carry permit. The gun store handed her the "shrink it and pink it" girl gun, she got home, and she could not find education or a way to carry that was comfortable, safe, and actually worked. She locked the gun up. Then she cut out a computer mousepad, sewed it to her postpartum wrap corset, and the gun disappeared under her T-shirt. That was the first prototype. Many designs later she launched her first concealed carry corset and kept going with education and instructor training. From that corset the line grew into thigh holsters built like shapewear, a bra holster, and concealed carry leggings. Anna walks John through the design priorities that separate a real holster from cloth: trigger protection, retention that does not slow your draw, consistent positioning that conceals on a woman's "squishy" spots, and a natural draw stroke that does not flag anyone with the muzzle. She also covers training as a mom, including running drills one handed while moving a child out of the way and covering a baby's ears on the draw. Her EDC is the P365, and she names her company after her grandfather, who taught her guns should be respected and not feared. The conversation gets personal and practical. Anna wrote a book, Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense, centered on mindset as the first line of defense. She shares her own history of abuse and the night a false alarm finally broke fear's hold on her. The hosts cover the media narrative around domestic abuse survivors and firearms, the "gun bunny" debate in the industry, her strategy of marketing to women through the men who buy for them, and detailed situational awareness habits for parents at the store and in the parking lot. She closes by teasing new products, including a first collection of smart holsters that integrate with a cell phone as part of a safety plan. Questions this episode answers How did Anna Taylor go from a frustrated new gun owner to founding a concealed carry company? In 2013, as a stay at home mom of four in Kansas City, Anna Taylor got her concealed carry permit but found no comfortable, safe way to carry the gun she was sold. With passion and a sense of duty rather than formal qualifications, she built a holster prototype and went on to launch Dean Adams. What was the very first holster prototype she made, and how did it work? She cut out a computer mousepad and sewed it to her postpartum wrap corset, which made the gun disappear under her T-shirt. After many design iterations, that first prototype became her concealed carry corset. What makes a holster actually safe, and why is retention more than just cloth? Anna says a real holster needs trigger protection, retention that holds the gun without slowing your draw, and consistent positioning that conceals on a woman's softer spots. It also has to allow a natural draw stroke that never points the muzzle at anyone. How can a mom train and carry while holding or wearing a child? Anna trains for it directly, running one handed drills while moving a child out of the way and covering a baby's ears on the draw. Her thinking is that under stress you default to how you've trained, so she practices the real scenario. What is Anna's book Intuitive by Design about, and what changed her relationship with fear? Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense centers on mindset as the first line of defense. Anna shares her own history of abuse and the night a false alarm finally broke fear's hold on her. How should domestic abuse survivors think about owning and carrying a firearm? Anna and the hosts discuss the media narrative around abuse survivors and guns, and her own experience as a survivor who decided she would do anything to stand between her kids and a predator. The episode frames firearm ownership as part of that survivor's safety plan. What is the "gun bunny" debate, and how has the industry changed for women in 13 years? The "gun bunny" debate weighs the industry's sexualized marketing against educated, serious female shooters. Anna reflects on how the gun store experience and the market for women have shifted over the 13 years since she started Dean Adams. What situational awareness habits does Anna teach parents for the store and parking lot? Anna teaches detailed awareness routines for parents at the store and in the parking lot, built on the idea that predators look for easy, weak targets. She also covers marketing to women through the men who buy firearms for them. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Anna Taylor, founder of Dean Adams 00:38 — The 2013 backstory and the first gun 02:05 — The mousepad and corset prototype 03:43 — Walking through the product line 09:56 — Has the gun store experience improved for women? 12:31 — The book on fear and self defense 16:40 — Making the decision to act before the moment 18:17 — Training and carrying with kids 23:10 — Domestic abuse survivors and the Second Amendment 29:09 — Soapbox: gun bunnies vs. educated women 30:21 — Marketing to women through the men 34:54 — The next trends in women's concealed carry 40:02 — Situational awareness for parents 45:16 — Where to find Anna and what's coming next About the guest Anna Taylor is the founder and CEO of Dean Adams, a concealed carry holster company she started in 2013. At the time she was a stay at home mom with four young kids living in the Grandview area of Kansas City, where her husband at the time traveled a lot. After a frustrating experience trying to carry her first gun, she built a holster prototype from a computer mousepad sewn to her postpartum corset, then pursued firearms education and instructor training. Thirteen years later her line includes the concealed carry corset, thigh holsters, a bra holster, and concealed carry leggings. She is also the author of Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense, teaches private firearms classes, and offers a line of e-learning material. Her company is named after her grandfather, who taught her that guns should be respected and not feared. Key quotes "So with no qualification other than passion and a sense of duty, I thought, I'm going to do something about this." — Anna Taylor "You have to have trigger protection, you have to have safe retention, but that doesn't slow down your draw." — Anna Taylor "Because when the fear hits, when the emergency happens, you will default to how you've trained." — Anna Taylor "I made the decision, I will do anything to stand between my kids and a predator." — Anna Taylor "Predators are looking for easy, weak targets." — Anna Taylor "He was big on family God, tradition, guns, his hunting, and taught me that guns should be respected and not feared." — Anna Taylor

Joe Farewell joins John and Kaylee for a conversation about what high-level firearms training actually delivers, and why the answer is rarely what new students expect. Joe is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He's also a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He walks through how competition shooting is structured, from local matches up to nationals and the World Shoot, which he calls the Olympics of practical shooting, and what it takes to travel overseas with guns and ammo through the paperwork each country requires. A through-line of the episode is Joe's training philosophy. He measures everything against three goals: the desired level of accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes. He built the Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 during COVID after learning to improve on roughly 50 to 100 rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire repetitions for free. He explains why isolating a skill in dry fire and fixing it raises performance, and why understanding the why behind a drill matters more than burning a thousand rounds a day on flashy work. Joe is direct about the biggest misconception students bring to advanced classes: they expect to walk away a far better shooter after two days. He compares it to taking a gym class for two days in a row and expecting to be ripped. The real value of a class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why. The conversation moves to his move from Florida to California, the gun culture and growing matches he's found there, the new laws affecting California gun owners, and his view that growing the competition community can shift the state's politics. He closes on gear: he runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point. Questions this episode answers What does high-level firearms training actually give you, and what can't it give you in two days? Joe Farewell says the real value of an advanced class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why, not an overnight skill jump. Expecting to walk away a far better shooter after two days is like taking a gym class twice and expecting to be ripped. How is competitive shooting structured, from local matches up to the IPSC World Shoot? It runs from local matches up through nationals to the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, which Joe Farewell calls the Olympics of practical shooting. He represented Team USA there, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. What's involved in traveling overseas with your firearms and ammunition for a match? Competing abroad means working through the firearm and ammunition paperwork each country requires before you can travel with your guns and ammo. Joe Farewell did this to shoot the IPSC Rifle World Shoot internationally. What are the three goals Joe measures every shooting skill against? Joe Farewell measures everything against accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes. What is dry fire, and why does it raise your performance for free? Dry fire is repetition practice without live ammunition, which lets you isolate a single skill and fix it at no cost. Joe Farewell improved on roughly 50 to 100 live rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire reps, and built his Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 around that approach. Why did Joe leave law enforcement to teach firearms full time? Joe Farewell spent seven years in policing in Florida as a SWAT sniper team leader before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He now runs Farewell Firearms Training, focused mostly on law enforcement, military, and instructor development. What is the gun culture and competition scene actually like in California? After moving from Florida to California, Joe Farewell found a real gun culture and growing matches there, alongside new laws affecting California gun owners. He believes growing the competition community can shift the state's politics. Does expensive gear make you a better shooter, or does it get in the way? Joe Farewell runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point. The skill comes from training, not the hardware. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Joe Farewell 00:51 — Two paths: competition and law enforcement 01:54 — How competition shooting is structured 03:37 — Traveling overseas with guns and ammo 06:18 — The shooting community in Europe 08:25 — Leaving law enforcement to teach full time 11:26 — The classes Joe teaches and the three goals 14:36 — Dry Fire Crew and the Dry Fire Mastery programs 18:57 — New gun owners and what to buy first 21:06 — Moving from Florida to California 29:30 — From the Soapbox: the flaws students bring to class 34:35 — Does gear make the shooter? 41:36 — Gift from PSA and wrap-up About the guest Joe Farewell is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach firearms full time. He is a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, winning silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He founded Farewell Firearms Training, where he trains civilians, law enforcement, and military units with a practical, real-world approach, and his current focus is mostly law enforcement and military classes along with instructor development. In 2020 he started the Dry Fire Mastery programs, including multigun, competition handgun, carbine, and home defense courses. He started shooting matches around age 19 or 20, has about 15 years doing this, and recently moved from Florida to California. He shoots Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles. Key quotes "So when you look at the goals of it, it doesn't matter what the purpose is, the fundamentals are still going to be the same." — Joe Farewell "By isolating it in dry fire and fixing it, it will skyrocket your performance and it's free." — Joe Farewell "If you can build a solid foundation of the skill set, the hard skills that you need to be able to accomplish the task, then you can focus on the tactical problem at hand." — Joe Farewell "The number one misconception that most people think when they go to a class is that they're going to walk away and be a significantly better shooter after a two day." — Joe Farewell "the only way to get better is by pushing yourself outside of what's comfortable." — Joe Farewell "Knowing how to train and what to train and why to train those things I think is what you should be going into more advanced class looking for." — Joe Farewell

Dianna Muller joins State of the Second to explain the strategy behind the teal shirts and the slogan that defines her work: educate, not legislate. A retired Tulsa police officer turned professional competitive shooter, she walks host John through how she went from ignoring politics for most of her adult life to founding the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights. The turning point came when she stood in front of a congressman and asked whether professional shooters should be doing something to educate the people in that building. After Virginia fell in 2019, she realized the real fight was in the states, and she asked the women who had been coming to Washington to go home and meet their own legislators as gun owners. Much of the conversation is about why the other side keeps gaining ground. Muller argues that groups like Moms Demand Action are intentional, organized, and funded, citing a roughly 60 million dollar annual budget on their side against a David and Goliath gap on hers. She points to the Biden administration's Office of Gun Violence Prevention as government money that helped states write red flag laws and universal background checks, and she describes asking the White House for a Second Amendment counsel so the movement's organizations can strategize and row in the same direction. Her answer to the funding gap is participation: become a 40 or 50 dollar member of every Second Amendment organization, take one new person to the polls, and show up for the midterms. The episode closes on practical advice and a personal mission. Muller pushes listeners to be intentional, to study the arguments so they can actually answer why someone needs an AR-15 or why universal background checks are a bad idea, and to keep talking to people and media outlets even after being burned. She makes the case that women can carry the gun-rights message in a way legacy voices cannot, wants firearms and hunter safety education back in schools, and frames competition's pseudo stress as the real training that translates to carrying. She also shares the big announcement: Women for Gun Rights is moving to a paid membership model and launching a 501(c)(3) called Women for Gun Safety to reclaim the word safety, because in her words guns make you safer. Questions this episode answers What does the teal shirt 'educate, not legislate' strategy actually mean, and where did it come from? It is the message on the signature teal shirts worn by Dianna Muller's DC Project women, who meet legislators as gun owners to educate them rather than push new laws. The idea grew from Muller asking whether professional shooters should be educating the people inside government buildings. How did a retired police officer and competitive shooter end up founding the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights? Dianna Muller spent 22 years with the Tulsa Police Department before retiring to shoot professionally, and she ignored politics until she stood before a congressman and realized shooters needed to educate lawmakers. She built the DC Project around one woman per state, then took it to the states as Women for Gun Rights. Why does Dianna Muller say women can carry the Second Amendment message more effectively than traditional gun owners? Muller argues that women can carry the Second Amendment (2A) message in a way legacy voices cannot, reaching audiences that traditional gun owners struggle to reach. She pairs that with a personal mission to build firearms that actually fit women rather than 'shrink it and pink it' versions. How big is the funding gap between gun-rights groups and organizations like Moms Demand Action? Muller describes a David and Goliath gap, citing a roughly 60 million dollar annual budget on the other side, and calls groups like Moms Demand Action intentional, organized, and funded. She says government money under the Office of Gun Violence Prevention helped states write red flag and background check laws. What is a Second Amendment counsel and why is Muller asking the White House for one? It is a coordinating role Muller has asked the White House to create so the movement's organizations can strategize and row in the same direction. She frames it as a way to close the organizational gap with well-funded, intentional opponents on the other side. What can an ordinary gun owner do before the midterms to make a difference? Muller urges participation: become a 40 or 50 dollar member of every Second Amendment (2A) organization, take one new person to the polls, and show up for the midterms. She also says to study the arguments so you can answer why someone needs an AR-15 or why universal background checks are a bad idea. How should you actually contact your legislators, and who should you ask for when you call? Muller tells gun owners to meet their own state legislators in person as gun owners, the same model that built the DC Project. Her point is that it is not enough for you to know their name; they need to know your name. What new organization and membership changes is Women for Gun Rights launching? Women for Gun Rights is moving to a paid membership model and launching a 501(c)(3) called Women for Gun Safety. Muller says the goal is to reclaim the word safety, because in her view guns make you safer. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Dianna Muller and the road to advocacy 02:01 — The teal shirts and educate, not legislate 02:41 — A David and Goliath funding gap 03:12 — Paid membership coming in 2026 05:01 — Why women carry the message differently 07:42 — Government money and the fight in the states 10:57 — Be prepared to have the hard conversations 14:20 — Thirty years of the anti-gun message 16:14 — Take one person to the polls 19:07 — Building guns for women, beyond shrink it and pink it 22:25 — Winning hearts and minds in Virginia 28:55 — Soapbox: frustration with Republicans in power 31:37 — How to actually contact your legislators 42:46 — Firearms education and hunter safety in schools 51:13 — The 501(c)(3) reveal: Women for Gun Safety About the guest Dianna Muller is a retired law enforcement officer, professional competitive shooter, and Second Amendment advocate, best known as the founder of the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights. She spent 22 years with the Tulsa Police Department before retiring a little early to shoot professionally after picking up sponsorships. She started the DC Project by inviting one woman from every state to meet their legislators in Washington as gun owners, then expanded the effort to the state level under the Women for Gun Rights name. She shoots three gun: rifle, pistol, and shotgun. Key quotes "You'll see our signature teal shirts that say educate, not legislate." — Dianna Muller "I want to be safe, and disarming me doesn't make me any safer." — Dianna Muller "I love people when they say I don't pay attention to politics, but politics pays attention to you." — Dianna Muller "It's not enough for you to know their name. They need to know your name." — Dianna Muller "We're trying to take back that name because guns make you safer." — Dianna Muller "But for the most part, girls don't care. We just want stuff that runs." — Dianna Muller

On this episode of State of the Second, host John sits down with Ryan from Atrius Development Group, the company behind the FRS (force reset selector). Ryan grew up around guns. His dad was ex-LAPD, he and his co-founder Malcolm served in the military, and he got into the industry around 19 or 20 at a startup near where he grew up, where he started by packing boxes and went on to help launch almost 700 accessories. He describes the accessory market as a place where you can be "an ally to everybody and enemy to nobody," and he frames Atrius as an extension of a manufacturer's product development team that fills gaps so brands can focus on building reliable weapon systems. Ryan walks through how the accessory market has driven real cultural shifts. SB Tactical's brace gave birth to the AR15 pistol, suppressor brands weren't even allowed at SHOT Show in the early 2000s, and he believes the force reset category is the next shift. He explains that the FRS is a drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution that follows the letter of the law, and that Atrius wants it to reach common use across the biggest addressable market. He and Malcolm expected to get targeted but thought it would take two years. Instead it happened in about six months. He credits the community, the dealer network, and shouts out Tim Hoffman and Hoffman Tactical for carrying them through. He also points to the product's business impact. Dealers have called to say his product is selling so well they don't have to lay off their teams, and he calls it one of the few categories not feeling the "Trump slump." The conversation moves into advocacy and the meaning of the Second Amendment. Ryan argues weapons are an apolitical issue because everyone should have the right to firearms, and he says the system is weaponized against gun culture through debanking, fintech companies that won't support firearms businesses, and marketing agencies that won't work with gun brands. He frames the Second Amendment plainly. It's about overthrowing a tyrannical government, not just hunting or self-defense, and reminds listeners it's "the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs." He talks about normalizing gear and capability instead of gatekeeping it, having fun in the commercial space, and the new diversity of gun owners, including legal immigrants discovering the right to defend themselves. Looking at 2026, Ryan wants the FRS in the mainstream, an FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support so a dealer's shelf has weapon systems with an FRS already installed. He closes by pointing people to Atrius on Instagram, and the show wraps with details on GOALS 2026, GOA's 50th anniversary celebration in Des Moines, Iowa, August 1st and 2nd. Questions this episode answers What is the FRS (force reset selector) from Atrius Development Group and how does it work? The FRS is Atrius Development Group's drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution that Ryan says follows the letter of the law. Atrius wants it to reach common use across the largest addressable market. How has the accessory market driven cultural shifts in the firearms industry? Ryan points to accessories that reshaped the market: SB Tactical's brace gave rise to the AR15 pistol, and suppressor brands went from being barred at SHOT Show in the early 2000s to mainstream. He sees the force reset category as the next shift. Why does Atrius believe the force reset category is the next big shift after braces and suppressors? Ryan frames the FRS as a compliant, drop-in semi-automatic solution following braces and suppressors as the next category to reach common use. He and co-founder Malcolm expected to get targeted in two years, but it happened in about six months. How is the FRS helping local dealers and mom-and-pop shops survive a slow market? Ryan says dealers have called to tell him the product is selling so well they don't have to lay off their teams. He calls force reset one of the few categories not feeling the slowdown he refers to as the Trump slump. What does Ryan believe the real purpose of the Second Amendment is? Ryan argues the Second Amendment is strictly about the ability to overthrow a tyrannical government, not just hunting or self-defense. He reminds listeners it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. How is the system weaponized against gun businesses through debanking and marketing? Ryan says gun culture is targeted through debanking, fintech companies that won't support firearms businesses, and marketing agencies that refuse to work with gun brands. He views the right to firearms as an apolitical issue. What does Ryan see happening with the FRS category in 2026? For 2026 Ryan wants the FRS in the mainstream, a full FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support so a dealer's shelf can carry complete weapon systems with an FRS already installed. Why does Ryan believe collaboration between firearms brands has replaced rivalry? Ryan describes the accessory space as a place to be an ally to everybody and an enemy to nobody, and says brands increasingly have to work together for everyone to win. He frames Atrius as an extension of a manufacturer's product development team. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Ryan and Atrius Development Group 01:36 — Growing up a gun nerd and his why 03:05 — Ryan's top five guns of all time 04:49 — The old guard, collaboration, and the cultural shift 08:13 — How the accessory market grew from compliance 09:47 — SB Tactical, the AR15 pistol, and what comes next 11:13 — The FRS adoption that happened in six months 15:58 — California's accessory ban and supporting dealers 18:48 — The Trump slump and saving mom-and-pop shops 21:55 — Government overreach and the drive toward advocacy 27:43 — The real purpose of the Second Amendment 31:31 — SHOT Show, the community, and normalizing the gear 38:28 — Soapbox: absolutists on the Second Amendment 40:09 — 2026, the FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support 45:55 — Dave at Matador Arms and playing for keeps 53:39 — Where to find Atrius and GOALS 2026 wrap-up About the guest Ryan is a co-founder of Atrius Development Group, which he started with his best friend Malcolm. He has been in the firearms industry since he was around 19 or 20 years old. He and Malcolm both served in the military, and his father was ex-LAPD. Before founding Atrius, he spent almost his entire career at one company, starting by packing boxes, where he helped launch close to 700 accessories in support of high-volume platforms. Atrius makes the FRS (force reset selector), a drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution. He previously released a P80 frame with Dave of Matador Arms. Key quotes "The Second amendment is strictly about overthrowing a tyrannical government. That's the whole sole purpose." — Ryan "it's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs." — Ryan "I believe weapons is an apolitical stance because everyone should have the right to firearms." — Ryan "we have dealers call us, tell us, like, hey, Ryan, I just want you to know, like, your product is doing so well, I don't have to lay off my team" — Ryan "I think people are starting to realize, like, you kind of have to, like, work together in order for everyone to win." — Ryan "I think everyone has an obligation to understand where it comes from, you know, because it's not just about hunting." — Ryan "the brick and mortar is the lifeblood of this industry." — John

The Forge Relations team returns to State of the Second for a post-Gundies wrap-up, and this year's show was different in one major way: it went live. Ben and Will explain that Ben had pushed a live stream for years before they finally pulled it off, and the deciding factor was finding the right home for it. YouTube was a non-starter because the platform told them a stream would be cut if a guest said something against its guidelines, and with the level of investment involved, a mid-show cutoff was a risk they couldn't take. Rumble stepped in, set up the account, and gave them internal team support. The result, by their own account, was the best year yet, with just under a thousand confirmed attendees in the room, around 200,000 watching the stream, and a noticeably more senior crowd of owners and C-suite leaders at the Venetian Theater during SHOT. Much of the conversation is about why a marketing agency keeps taking on an event this size. Ben and Will are blunt that the Gundies is separate from Forge and isn't a money-maker. They put roughly 3,500 man hours into it this year on top of running the agency, and every year they have the same internal debate about whether it's worth the headache. They keep going because they believe in the industry and the community, and because the event grows everyone together. A creator who misses top five still gets new eyes from people who'd never seen them, since voters have to look at every name in a category. The hosts back this up from backstage: even Hickok, with 10 million subscribers, was genuinely excited to win, and John says he's watched sub counts climb after the Gundies post. Ben and Will also address this year's drama head on, saying voting has always been organic, that more followers means more votes is a volume game and not rigging, and that they said their piece and won't turn the drama machine on. The episode closes with two forward-looking pieces. First, the Gundies is becoming a standalone brand and will no longer go dark after the show. It's launching its first-ever trivia night at GOA's GOALS event, a 2A-themed game with real prizes from sponsors including title sponsor PSA, and the hosts say they'll also work with Rumble on it. GOALS runs August 1st and 2nd in Des Moines, Iowa, marking GOA's 50th anniversary, and Forge is providing Saturday night's entertainment. Second, in the Soapbox segment, Ben and Will talk about getting new gun owners off the fence and into the community. Their answers center on content: let mainstream outlets show the industry without a political spin, represent the new customer who often doesn't look like the standard gun owner, and for aspiring creators, be authentic, stay consistent, and don't wait for perfect before posting. Questions this episode answers Why did The Gundies finally go live this year, and why on Rumble instead of YouTube? Ben had pushed for a live stream for years, and the show finally went live once they found the right home. YouTube was ruled out because the platform said a stream could be cut if a guest violated its guidelines, a risk too large for the investment, so Rumble stepped in, set up the account, and provided team support. How big was the show this year in terms of attendees and stream viewers? By Ben and Will's account it was the best year yet, with just under a thousand confirmed attendees in the room and around 200,000 people watching the stream. The crowd at the Venetian Theater during SHOT was also noticeably more senior, with more owners and C-suite leaders. How many hours does Forge actually put into producing The Gundies? Ben and Will say they put roughly 3,500 man hours into the event this year, on top of running the agency. The Gundies is separate from Forge Relations and is not a money-maker. Why does a marketing agency keep running an event that doesn't make money? Ben and Will keep going because they believe in the firearms industry and community and want to see it grow, since that growth benefits everyone. They have the same internal debate every year about whether the headache is worth it, and they keep choosing to do it. How did Forge respond to this year's accusations that the voting was rigged? Ben and Will addressed the drama directly, saying voting has always been organic and that more followers meaning more votes is a volume game, not rigging. They said their piece and chose not to feed the drama machine further. What does a creator gain from being nominated even if they don't win? Because voters have to look at every name in a category, a nominee who misses the top five still gets new eyes from people who had never seen them. The hosts note even Hickok, with 10 million subscribers, was genuinely excited to win, and John has watched subscriber counts climb after a Gundies post. What is the new Gundies trivia night at GOALS, and what can attendees expect? The Gundies is launching its first-ever trivia night, a Second Amendment themed game with real prizes from sponsors including title sponsor PSA. It runs at GOA's GOALS event in Des Moines, Iowa on August 1st and 2nd, with Forge providing Saturday night's entertainment. What advice do Ben and Will give to new gun owners and aspiring content creators? For new gun owners, they want mainstream content that shows the industry without a political spin and represents customers who don't fit the standard mold. For aspiring creators, the advice is to be authentic, stay consistent, and not wait for perfect before posting. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome back to Forge for the post-Gundies wrap-up 00:48 — Why this year went live, and why not YouTube 02:04 — Rumble steps in to make the live stream happen 03:09 — Best year yet: C-suite in the room, seven years of growth 04:53 — 3,500 man hours and the entertainment push 07:07 — The grand prize winner and what voting really buys you 09:05 — John and Kaylee's view from backstage 11:48 — Why GOA sponsors its category and never gave it up 13:31 — Addressing this year's drama and the rigging accusations 17:09 — Organic voting and why being nominated still wins 24:51 — Announcement: the Gundies becomes its own brand 25:25 — First-ever Gundies trivia night at GOA GOALS 35:54 — GOALS, the 50th anniversary, and registering early 40:47 — Soapbox: getting new gun owners into the community 45:21 — Advice for aspiring content creators: be authentic About the guest Ben and Will are with Forge Relations, the marketing agency that produces the Gundies firearms industry awards show. The hosts describe them as gun owners first, and they call themselves a marketing agency that also does events. In this episode they describe the Gundies as separate from Forge and built for the firearms industry and community, not as a revenue source. This was around their third appearance on State of the Second. The Gundies is heading into its eighth year, with the awards show held at the Venetian Theater during SHOT. Key quotes "The biggest compliment we got was about who was in the room." — Ben Stacy "We believe in this industry and we believe in the community and we want to see the community grow because that's going to benefit all of us." — Ben Stacy "At the end of the day, we created this event for our industry." — Will Renke "It's not that it's rigged, it's just it's a volume game." — Will Renke "The whole point of the event is to network together." — Will Renke "The only way you're going to get better on camera is just to put the content out there." — Ben Stacy

Professional competitive shooter Jalise Williams joins hosts Kaylee and John for a conversation about a career built on discipline, family, and a deep love of firearms history. A Team USA representative, Jalise is a 12-time world champion with 43 national titles and more than 200 major wins, and she became the first woman in the United States to qualify for the USA Overall Team (long called the Men's Team) at the Handgun World Shoot. She traces it all back to St. George, Utah, where she grew up hunting with her father from the time she was in diapers. After her mother took a local ladies' night clinic and suggested she learn handguns, Jalise and her sister fell in love with the sport and entered the competitive circuit. Twelve years later, she is at the top of it. She walks through what making the Overall Team actually takes: a two-year qualification across your best three of four national championships, with only the top four competitors selected. After one of the best matches of her life she slipped into the fourth spot, then went to the world championship and came home with two gold medals. Jalise shoots for Colt, where she has been on the team for seven years after a stint with Springfield Armory and a breakout single-stack season on two Colt Gold Cups. A history lover, she is proud to represent a brand so embedded in American history, and she now helps test Colt products before release. She also opens up her training: when she is home, three hours a day on the range, dry fire, a CO2 kit for simulated recoil, daily gym work, and a fundamentals block of about 100 rounds on one-inch dots at 5, 7, and 10 yards that she has run for a decade. The back half turns to community and history. Jalise encourages women entering the sport to use social media to connect with other women shooters and to lean on resources like online classes and groups such as A Girl & A Gun and The Well Armed Woman, with Steel Challenge as a beginner-friendly first discipline. She shares her family's hunting tradition, including a South Africa hunt tied to last year's world championship and a bucket list that runs from moose to dove hunting in Argentina. Her love of history shows in her favorites, from the Single Action Army to black powder guns, and in a top-five list that includes the 1911, the 2011, and the AR-15. On the Soapbox, she gets candid about the mental side of competition, the habit of getting in her own head, and why staying willing to fail and learn is the only way to keep climbing. Questions this episode answers How did Jalise Williams get into competitive shooting? She grew up hunting with her father in St. George, Utah from a very young age. After her mother got a concealed carry permit and took a local ladies' night clinic, she suggested Jalise learn handguns too, and Jalise and her sister fell in love with the sport and entered the competitive circuit twelve years ago. What does qualifying for the USA Overall (Men's) Team actually mean? Team USA selection runs off your best three of four national championships over two years, with only the top four competitors chosen. Jalise slipped into the fourth spot after one of the best matches of her life, then won two gold medals at the world championship, becoming the first US woman to make that team. Why does Jalise Williams shoot for Colt? She has been on the Colt team for seven years, after shooting Springfield Armory and then winning a national-title season with two Colt Gold Cups in single stack. A Shooting USA recommendation connected her to Colt, and she values the brand's place in American history. She now helps test Colt products before release. How does a professional competitive shooter train? When she is home, Jalise trains about three hours a day on the range, dry fires, and uses a CO2 kit for simulated recoil, plus daily gym work. She starts every session with fundamentals, roughly 100 rounds on one-inch dots at 5, 7, and 10 yards, a drill she has run for about ten years. What is the first step to getting into competitive shooting? She suggests watching videos, researching shooting organizations, and going to spectate a local match. Steel Challenge is her recommended starting discipline because it is beginner-friendly and builds fundamentals, and talking to local shooters can help you borrow gear and ease into your first match. What advice does Jalise Williams have for women entering the firearms industry? Use social media to connect with other women in competitive shooting, and lean on resources like online classes and women's organizations such as A Girl & A Gun and The Well Armed Woman. A little research helps you find the path and the discipline that fit you best. How big a role does the mental game play in competitive shooting? Jalise says the sport is largely mental, since anyone can have the skills but performing on demand under pressure is the hard part. She has struggled with getting in her own head and stresses staying willing to learn, grow, and fail, because that is how you reach the next level. What does Jalise Williams consider the top guns that built America? A history lover, she names the Single Action Army as a favorite, along with the 1911 she has shot for most of her career, the 2011 that built on it, and the AR-15. The hosts add classics like the M1 Garand and the Winchester 92. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and Jalise's record 00:33 — From hunting in diapers to the competitive circuit 01:41 — Qualifying for the USA Overall Team 03:10 — Shooting for Colt 04:49 — Getting started: Steel Challenge and fundamentals 09:27 — Inside a competitive shooter's training week 12:15 — Advice for women entering the sport 15:32 — Hunting as a family tradition 18:08 — Honoring firearms history 25:33 — Top guns that built America 31:16 — The Soapbox: the mental game of competition 36:21 — Where to find Jalise About the guest Jalise Williams is a professional competitive shooter and Team USA representative, a 12-time world champion with 43 national titles and more than 200 major wins, and the first US woman to qualify for the USA Overall Team (formerly the Men's Team) at the Handgun World Shoot. She grew up hunting in St. George, Utah and has competed for about 12 years, shooting for Colt for the last seven. She also runs an educational shooting series on YouTube. Key quotes "I slipped into that fourth spot and claimed it as mine" — Jalise Williams "always being willing to learn and grow because there's somebody out there that knows something that you don't know" — Jalise Williams "You have to be able to be willing to fail a lot and want to learn from those" — Jalise Williams "I like to think of it as like the guns that built America" — Jalise Williams

State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with Colton, founder and CEO of Reap Weaponry, a central Minnesota company built around a bullpup conversion kit for the AR platform. The idea came out of coyote hunting in the Midwest, where Colton and his crew got tired of lugging around 18-inch guns and suppressors and wanted to shorten everything up. He didn't like the bullpup options on the market, found that nobody was making a conversion system, and went down the patent process to build one. Reap's kit is legally a grip that bolts onto a mil-spec AR lower, so it isn't serialized and works with parts builders already own. It supports buffered and bufferless uppers, a shortened buffer system built in partnership with Deadfoot Arms, bolt receivers, and a wide caliber list, with an AR10 frame releasing next month. Colton walks through what it took to go from an idea to a business. He failed roughly 30 times on prototypes before it worked, ran a lot of drop and mud tests, and engineered a self-lubricating, self-clearing bushing so the system never needs oil. Some test kits have 18,000 rounds through them with a three-pound trigger pull and have never been opened or cleaned. He stresses doing the patent search right, paying for a strong provisional patent, and the surprise that many engineers, lawyers, and even website companies will not touch the firearms industry at all. He launched at SHOT Show out of a small booth in the basement, sold out a 50-unit preorder in two weeks, and had competitors copy the concept within three months. The conversation moves into marketing, education, and the influencer game. Colton bet on smaller YouTubers, sending about 30 of his first hundred units to creators starting out, because they were hungry, made multiple videos, and leaned into education more than entertainment. He chose a prove-it mentality over claiming the product is good himself. The demographic surprised him: older hunters and shooters using the lighter, one-handed-capable bullpup for accessibility after shoulder or hip replacements. The episode closes on the soapbox segment about running a gun company in Minnesota, the state-level pressure, and the value of staying level headed and supporting groups like Minnesota Gun Rights. Questions this episode answers What is a bullpup conversion kit and how does Reap Weaponry's version work with an existing AR? Reap Weaponry's kit converts a standard AR into a bullpup, shortening the overall package while keeping the gun functioning as an AR15. It bolts onto a mil-spec AR lower and works with parts builders already own, supporting buffered and bufferless uppers across a wide caliber list. Why does the kit work with any mil-spec AR lower without being a serialized firearm? The kit is legally a grip that bolts onto a mil-spec AR lower, so it is not serialized. That lets it work with the lowers and parts builders already own rather than requiring a new firearm. How did the shortened buffer system come about, and who did Reap partner with to build it? Reap built a shortened buffer system into the kit so it could run compact uppers, developing it in partnership with Deadfoot Arms. The system also supports bolt receivers and both buffered and bufferless uppers. How many prototypes did it take and what testing did the kit go through before launch? Colton failed roughly 30 times on prototypes before the system worked, then ran extensive drop and mud testing. He engineered a self-lubricating, self-clearing bushing so the kit never needs oil, with some test units running 18,000 rounds without being opened or cleaned. What does it take to go from an idea to a firearms business, including the patent process? Colton stresses doing the patent search correctly and paying for a strong provisional patent. He also learned that many engineers, lawyers, and even website companies refuse to work with the firearms industry, which made building the business harder than expected. Why did Reap send product to smaller YouTubers instead of the big influencers first? Colton sent about 30 of his first hundred units to smaller, up-and-coming creators because they were hungry, made multiple videos, and leaned into education over entertainment. He chose a prove-it approach, putting the product in people's hands rather than claiming it was good himself. Which customers ended up buying the product, and why was the demographic a surprise? The buyers skewed toward older hunters and shooters who valued the lighter, one-handed-capable bullpup for accessibility after shoulder or hip replacements. That accessibility-driven demographic was not the audience Colton expected. What is it like running a firearms manufacturing company in Minnesota? Colton manufactures in Minnesota and Wisconsin and faces real state-level pressure on the industry. He emphasizes staying level headed and supporting advocacy groups like Minnesota Gun Rights. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Colton and the origin of Reap Weaponry 01:33 — Why bullpups are so controversial 02:35 — Modularity and the rise of micro bullpups 04:30 — What the kit fits: mil-spec lowers, uppers, calibers 06:13 — AR10 frame coming and what's next 07:33 — Older hunters and accessibility wins 09:35 — Test protocols, prototypes, and the bushing design 11:54 — The shortened buffer system with Deadfoot Arms 14:22 — Launch reaction and selling out the preorder 16:43 — Price point versus quality 19:28 — Education, gun tubers, and backing small creators 26:24 — Patent search, engineers, and a firearms-shy world 33:35 — Learning marketing and the prove-it mentality 39:01 — Soapbox: running a gun company in Minnesota About the guest Colton is the founder and CEO of Reap Weaponry, a firearms company based in central Minnesota. A fifth-generation farmer, he grew up farming and painting cars and started the company around age 22 or 23 with no background in business or marketing. The idea grew out of coyote hunting in the Midwest, where he wanted a shorter package than the 18-inch guns and suppressors he was lugging around. He pursued a patent and developed Reap's bullpup conversion system, which the company manufactures in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Reap also does local sales of suppressors, thermals, and FFL work as a dealer in central Minnesota. Key quotes "I figured somebody had to do it. So I got looking at it for a couple weeks and nobody was doing a conversion system for it." — Colton "We've got some of the test kits, have 18,000 rounds through now that still running. I've never opened them up, never cleaned them." — Colton "Instead of claiming we have a good product, I want to prove it and I want to get it into people's hands and let them show it for what it is too." — Colton "It's still an AR15 through and through. We're not altering or really negating anything that it does already." — Colton "It was important to me from the jump to give some of the smaller influencers the product first." — Colton

In this episode of State of the Second, hosts Kaylee and John sit down with Jennifer, the director of sales and marketing at Urban Chic. The brand makes stylish everyday carry accessories with integrated Level 3A ballistic protection, built with DuPont Kevlar and patented technology. Founded in 2018, the company set out to bring personal protection into a genuine leather bag that looks like an everyday purse, rather than the tactical, pink-camo gear that dominated the market for women. Jennifer explains that the protective insert adds only 17 ounces to the bag, so it stays discreet instead of feeling like a bulletproof vest. The conversation centers on what makes the product different. The patent is in how the bag deploys on the body. A loose Kevlar insert held up to yourself carries a high risk of the bullet ricocheting, so the insert is measured to fit a specific bag and deploys with a neck strap and waist strap that absorb the blow. Level 3A protection covers standard handgun rounds up to .44 Magnum and is also stab proof. After launch, the team realized the real audience was people who want to carry and protect themselves at the same time. They went to SHOT Show two years in a row to confirm it, partnered with Rounded for a universal holster insert that fits inside a zipper pouch, and shifted their marketing toward the firearms community. Jennifer and the hosts dig into who buys the bags and why. The biggest demographic is men buying for the women in their life, plus parents sending kids off to college where campus carry and even pepper spray may not be allowed. The team is exploring more options for men, travel, and undercover law enforcement, and gets frequent requests for children's backpacks they have not yet pursued. Kaylee and John tie it all back to personal responsibility, the on-ramp into the self defense journey, and the rise of off body carry, agreeing on one rule throughout: options are good as long as you practice with them. Questions this episode answers What is Level 3A ballistic protection and what rounds does it stop? Level 3A protection covers standard handgun rounds up to .44 Magnum, and it is also rated stab proof. Urban Chic builds this rating into its bags using DuPont Kevlar and patented technology. What makes Urban Chic's bag different from a plain Kevlar insert you hold up to yourself? A loose Kevlar insert held up to yourself carries a high risk of the bullet ricocheting. Urban Chic's patent is in how the insert is measured to fit a specific bag and deploys with a neck strap and waist strap that absorb the blow. How much weight does the ballistic insert add to the bag? The protective insert adds only 17 ounces to the bag, so it stays discreet and reads like an everyday purse rather than feeling like a bulletproof vest. Can you carry a firearm in the bag, and how does the holster option work? Yes. Urban Chic partnered with Rounded for a universal holster insert that fits inside a zipper pouch, so the bag supports both ballistic protection and concealed carry at the same time. Who is actually buying these ballistic bags and why? The biggest demographic is men buying for the women in their life, along with parents sending kids off to college where campus carry and even pepper spray may not be allowed. Why did Urban Chic shift its marketing toward the firearms community after launch? After launch the team realized the real audience was people who want to carry and protect themselves at the same time. They confirmed it at SHOT Show two years running, then partnered with Rounded and moved their marketing toward the firearms community. Do the ballistic panels expire, and is there a warranty? The summary does not specify a panel shelf life, but the episode covers the panels and a 10-year warranty in its discussion of how the insert is built and maintained. How was Urban Chic founded and what was the original idea? The company was founded in 2018 by an attorney who started it as a passion project after seeing mass shootings, aiming to put real personal protection into a genuine leather bag that looks like an everyday purse. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and intro to Urban Chic 00:53 — Founded in 2018: protection in an everyday bag 01:51 — The patent: how the bag deploys on the body 03:35 — Adding the universal holster with Rounded 04:48 — Barriers and misconceptions buyers have 06:08 — Who it's for: college, teachers, everyone 07:09 — Level 3A rating and stopping power 08:11 — Dual-purpose bags and women in the space 13:43 — How the insert is built and removed 14:41 — Panel shelf life and the 10-year warranty 14:57 — Customer stories and range demos 19:01 — Demand for children's backpacks 21:11 — How the founder built and patented the bag 25:11 — From the Soapbox: off body carry and practice 30:47 — Undercover law enforcement use 31:24 — Deployment time and closing About the guest Jennifer is the director of sales and marketing at Urban Chic, a brand that makes stylish everyday carry accessories with integrated Level 3A ballistic protection. She came from a legal industry background rather than firearms, and says her husband is in the gun space as a personal hobby, so she was familiar with it before joining professionally. The company was founded in 2018 by an attorney who started it as a passion project after seeing mass shootings. [VERIFY guest's last name] Key quotes "it's the bag you hope you never have to use because it's there if you need it." — Jennifer "if you just had a Kevlar insert and you just held it up to yourself, the risk of the bullet ricocheting is very high." — Jennifer "after we launched the product, we realized it's actually for people who are wanting to carry and protect themselves at the same time." — Jennifer "the stronger the self defense culture is, the stronger the second Amendment community is." — Kaylee "off body carry is not bad. It's an option. It adds to your repertoire." — John "our biggest demographic is men buying it for women in their life." — Jennifer

Johnny Q built a large following before he ever touched a gun. On this episode of State of the Second, hosts Kaylee and John talk with the firearms content creator about a path that ran from wedding photography and marketing, to viral spin-art paintings on TikTok, to documenting his time as a police officer, and finally to full-time gun content. He hit a million YouTube subscribers in his first year, added another million the next, and brought that audience with him every time the content shifted. The throughline is approachability. His signature good question reply started on TikTok as a way to handle the flood of questions he could not all answer, and it became the welcoming tone that set his channel apart in a space he describes as in your face and full of guys telling you there is only one way to do things. Johnny explains who he actually makes content for: the roughly 30-year-old with a family who does not know much about guns but wants to protect the people he loves. He came to believe everybody should own a gun to protect themselves and their family, and his time as a cop is what drove it home. His audience skews 28 to 35, older and more capable than people assume, and he watches them progress from how do you hold a gun to questions about holding zero and competition shooting. He talks candidly about the haters, the SWAT and Navy SEAL viewers who called his department to complain, and the constant accusation of being a shill, which he argues is a double standard unique to the gun industry. He runs the channel like a business, takes no affiliate cuts on his discount codes, and says he calls out a product on camera when something is wrong. The back half digs into harder ground. Johnny breaks down Minnesota self-defense and carry law, including his own traffic stop where he learned the hard way that the state requires you to inform an officer you are carrying. He covers YouTube tightening restrictions, why he stays on the platform anyway for the reach, and why he doubts it will ever return to its open early days. He closes on the call from the Gundies to stop the infighting, with a direct message to the creators and commenters pouring out hate: reflect, fix yourself, and stop adding fuel to the fire of people who already say guns kill people. Questions this episode answers How did Johnny Q go from wedding videography and viral spin-art paintings to firearms content? Johnny Q started in wedding photography, videography, and marketing, then went viral during COVID posting spin-art paintings on TikTok. He carried that audience through every shift in his content until he moved to making firearms content full time. Why did he become a police officer, and how did that shape his gun content? Johnny became a police officer and documented his time on the job, and that experience convinced him everybody should own a gun to protect themselves and their family. It became the core why behind his firearms content. Who is the audience he actually makes content for, and how old are they really? He makes content for the roughly 30-year-old with a family who does not know much about guns but wants to protect the people he loves. His viewers skew 28 to 35, older and more capable than people assume, and he watches them progress from how to hold a gun to questions about holding zero and competition shooting. What is the story behind his signature "good question" reply? The "good question" reply started on TikTok as a way to handle the flood of questions he could not all answer. It became the welcoming tone that set his channel apart in a space he describes as in-your-face and full of people insisting there is only one way to do things. How does he handle hate comments and the shill accusation in the gun industry? Johnny runs the channel like a business, takes no affiliate cuts on his discount codes, and calls out a product on camera when something is wrong. He argues the constant shill accusation is a double standard unique to the gun industry. What does Minnesota law require when you are carrying and get pulled over? Johnny learned the hard way during his own traffic stop that Minnesota requires you to inform the officer you are carrying. He uses that experience to break down the state's self-defense and carry law. Does he think YouTube will ever loosen its restrictions on gun content? He doubts YouTube will return to its open early days, but he stays on the platform for the reach despite the tightening restrictions. What is Johnny Q's message from The Gundies about the infighting in the gun community? Answering the call from The Gundies to stop the infighting, Johnny tells the creators and commenters pouring out hate to reflect, fix themselves, and stop adding fuel to the fire for people who already say guns kill people. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Johnny Q 00:36 — From vlogging to viral spin art 01:41 — Becoming a cop, filming the journey 04:50 — The good question approach 07:18 — The on-ramp for new gun owners 10:05 — Old heads and Olight gate 13:32 — His why: protecting family 17:33 — Misconceptions and budget gear 22:48 — Going long form and EOTECH on board 25:02 — The shill debate and discount codes 30:24 — His specialty: beginner to intermediate 35:57 — Minnesota law and the traffic stop 40:04 — YouTube restrictions and reach 42:46 — Banding together against the hate 46:32 — Where to find Johnny Q About the guest Johnny Q is a firearms content creator who has been on YouTube for about seven years. He started with life vlogging and worked as a wedding photographer and videographer and in marketing. During COVID he began posting spin-art paintings that went viral on TikTok, and he reached a million YouTube subscribers in his first year. He later became a police officer, motivated by a desire to help women in domestic violence situations, and documented his journey through the academy and field training, gaining a second million subscribers. After roughly three years in law enforcement he left to make firearms content full time. He lives in Minnesota and has kids. His content focuses on welcoming new and beginner-to-intermediate gun owners. He can be found as Johnny Q on YouTube and Instagram. Key quotes "I've always wanted to be the person that helps people come into the gun space." — Johnny Q "I want to be making content for people who are, you know, the Joe that's, you know, 30 years old, has a family, doesn't know anything about guns, but wants to protect himself and his family." — Johnny Q "People think they're very young and don't know anything, but they're a lot older and want to know, but don't know how to ask those things." — Johnny Q "I think there's a, maybe a double standard in the gun industry." — Johnny Q "I tell people I don't do affiliates, like I don't get paid on usage of codes." — Johnny Q "If you can confine within those guidelines, you could do really well." — Johnny Q

Cakes Concealed Carry started as a personal problem, not a business plan. Its founder got her CCW license in California, where the instructors told her repeatedly that off-body carry was not acceptable. She bought the gear they recommended, spent hundreds of dollars on holsters and a stiff CCW belt, and found none of it fit her lifestyle or body type. She kept asking one question: what would make her actually choose to carry every single day? Off-body was the answer. She tried tactical bags that announced she had a gun, then tried rigging her own purses and realized how unsafe that was. Finally her husband offered to design one bag for her as a gift, at the cost of a prototype. That single bag became a brand that sold roughly 6,000 bags in its first year and won Emerging Brand of the Year at the Gundies. The design goal was specific. She wanted a purse that looked feminine, fit her outfit, stayed discreet, and could still meet the technical bar the instructors used to dismiss off-body carry: sub 1.5-second shots on target. The Cakes system grew from there, including a waist chain she first added because it was cute and then found gave the bag three points of stability for a one-handed draw while moving. The conversation also covers how feminine carry has become its own category, with Project Gunway and other brands now entering the space. Her position on competition is plain. Cakes has one goal, arm every woman, so if a customer carries with someone else's bag, that still counts. The back half is about California and the new gun owner. She walks through what it took to buy a gun and earn a permit in her county: the FSC firearm safety test her husband failed, a 30-day wait, proof of citizenship and matching utility bills, three references the sheriff calls to vouch for you, an in-person psychological exam at the sheriff's office, multiple fingerprint sessions, and a roughly $1,000 out-the-door cost. That experience moved her and her husband from liberal to libertarian. She argues the barriers slow down the law-abiding while criminals skip all of it, and she pushes the gun community to welcome new owners instead of overwhelming them with trigger-weight talk and politics. Cakes is on Instagram at cakes.concealed and is building a YouTube channel for carry education. Questions this episode answers Why did off-body carry, often dismissed in CCW classes, become the right answer for one new gun owner? After getting her CCW license in California, the Cakes Concealed Carry founder found the holsters and stiff belt her instructors recommended did not fit her body or lifestyle. Off-body carry was the only setup that made her willing to carry every single day. How did Cakes Concealed Carry go from a single prototype bag to roughly 6,000 bags sold in its first year? Her husband designed one concealed carry bag for her as a gift, at the cost of a prototype, after she found tactical bags too obvious and rigging her own purses unsafe. That single bag became a brand that sold about 6,000 bags in its first year and won Emerging Brand of the Year at The Gundies. What technical standard did the founder design the bag to meet, and why did it matter? She built the bag to hit sub 1.5-second shots on target, the same technical bar instructors used to dismiss off-body carry. Meeting it let her prove a bag could look feminine and stay discreet while still drawing fast. What does it actually take, step by step, to buy a gun and get a CCW permit in California? In her county it meant the FSC firearm safety test, a 30-day wait, proof of citizenship with matching utility bills, three references the sheriff calls, an in-person psychological exam, multiple fingerprint sessions, and roughly $1,000 out the door. How did the founder's politics shift from liberal to libertarian after buying her first gun? Going through California's permit and purchase process, and seeing how it burdened law-abiding buyers, moved her and her husband from liberal to libertarian. Becoming gun owners reframed how she saw the barriers around the right to carry. Why does the founder argue that gun legislation protects criminals rather than law-abiding citizens? She argues the legal barriers only slow down people who follow the law, since criminals bypass the permits, waits, and checks entirely. The result is that legislation adds cost and delay for the law-abiding without stopping the people it targets. How should the gun community treat new gun owners walking into a store for the first time? She pushes the community to welcome new owners instead of overwhelming them with trigger-weight talk and politics. Her view is that every gun store should invite and welcome first-time buyers rather than intimidate them. What is the Cakes waist chain, and how did a cute accessory turn into a tactical feature? She first added the waist chain because it looked cute, then found it gave the bag three points of stability for a one-handed draw while moving. A styling choice became a functional part of the carry system. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Cakes Concealed Carry 00:39 — How a personal CCW journey started the brand 01:48 — Carrying every day becomes a lifestyle 04:04 — One prototype bag turns into 6,000 sold 04:27 — The California concealed carry class 06:40 — Industry reception and the 1.5-second standard 10:05 — The waist chain that became a tactical feature 11:37 — Her firearms journey and personal responsibility 16:14 — From liberal to libertarian after the first gun 20:34 — Why a permit is required to carry in California 25:55 — The barrier to entry and a friend named Marissa 33:09 — Taxing a God-given right and fighting legislation 40:03 — From the soapbox: welcoming the new gun owner 48:55 — Winning Emerging Brand of the Year at the Gundies 52:13 — Where to find Cakes and closing About the guest Founder and owner of Cakes Concealed Carry, a women-owned brand making concealed carry bags for off-body carry. She is based in California and lives in Riverside County. She comes from an immigrant family that immigrated from Bangladesh, and she is an abuse survivor who decided to be responsible for her own safety. She and her husband took basic pistol and safety training before buying their first gun, and moved from liberal to libertarian after becoming gun owners. The brand started after her husband designed her a single bag as a gift. Cakes sold about 6,000 bags in its first year and won Emerging Brand of the Year at the Gundies. The host introduces her as Tamkin Collins. [VERIFY name spelling: the auto-transcript also renders it "Tapkin"/"Tamkin."] Key quotes "It really started with when I chose to get my CCW license." — Tamkin Collins "when you start wearing that stuff, once you get your ccw, you realize that this is a lifestyle." — Tamkin Collins "And now we have sold probably 6,000 bags in our first year." — Tamkin Collins "I think that the industry has been waiting for something like this" — Tamkin Collins "And then we bought our first gun, and we just got fully radicalized into libertarianism." — Tamkin Collins "So the people that are law abiding are going to abide by the law." — Tamkin Collins "Every gun store needs to invite and welcome new gun owners." — Tamkin Collins "cakes only has one goal, which is arm every woman." — Tamkin Collins

Clint Smith, the founder of Thunder Ranch and a U.S. Marine Corps combat veteran with two infantry tours in Vietnam and a long law enforcement career, joins State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee for an episode built around one blunt idea: a pistol is a tool of convenience, and a rifle is what ends a fight. Smith walks through how his thinking changed across more than 50 years, from the near-zero pistol instruction he got in the Marine Corps to his early run-ins with PPC, the Practical Pistol Course he says was anything but practical. He explains why the rifle came back into law enforcement after the April 1986 Miami FBI shooting, and why most gunfights happen at the width or length of a car, not at 50 yards. The heart of the conversation is competency and personal responsibility. Smith argues that owning a gun does not make a person competent, and that practice and mindset matter more than the specific handgun in your holster. He reframes the military's shoot, move, and communicate as communicate first, then move to cover, then shoot only if you have to, because every bullet fired has a lawyer attached to it and a jury that decides whether you acted responsibly. He covers backing up to create distance, the legal value of a defensive posture on camera, where to aim, and why a fight is fought to win rather than to a draw. He also recommends a short-barreled rifle with a suppressor and a white light for home defense, and corrects the common belief that rifle rounds pass through more interior walls than pistol rounds. Smith gets personal on the mental side: rehearsing scenarios, training to shoot with either hand, staying vigilant even when a larger partner is present, and the reality that carrying a gun is comforting rather than comfortable. He closes on safety, calling most negligent discharges incompetence rather than accidents, and on history, naming his top firearms and arguing that public education should be grounded more in history. The episode includes sponsor reads for Ammo Squared, Right to Bear, and Patriot Mobile, and ends with a reminder to register for GOALS, GOA's 50th anniversary convention, August 1st and 2nd in Des Moines, Iowa. Questions this episode answers What did Clint Smith change his mind about in training over 50 years? Smith says his thinking shifted from the near-zero pistol instruction he got in the Marine Corps and his early experience with PPC, the Practical Pistol Course, toward the view that most gunfights happen close in, at the width or length of a car rather than at 50 yards. Why does Clint Smith call a pistol a tool of convenience and the rifle the tool that ends a fight? He treats the handgun as something you carry because it is easy to have on you, not because it is the most effective option. To actually end a fight, Smith says you use a rifle, which is why the long gun returned to law enforcement after the April 1986 Miami FBI shooting. What does Smith recommend for home defense, and why a short-barreled rifle with a suppressor? Smith recommends a short-barreled rifle paired with a suppressor and a white light for defending the home, favoring the rifle's effectiveness over a handgun in a close-quarters confrontation. Do rifle rounds go through more walls in a house than pistol rounds? Smith corrects the common belief that rifle rounds pass through more interior walls than pistol rounds, pushing back on the assumption that a rifle is automatically the bigger over-penetration risk indoors. Why does Smith say possession of a firearm does not equal competency? Smith argues that owning a gun does not make a person competent. Practice and mindset matter more than the specific handgun you carry, and real competency takes deliberate work and money. How should a gun owner build the mindset to actually use a firearm defensively? He reframes the military's shoot, move, and communicate as communicate first, then move to cover, then shoot only if you have to, because every bullet fired carries legal consequences and a jury that decides whether you acted responsibly. How should you train the mental side of self-defense, not just the shooting? Smith stresses rehearsing scenarios, training to shoot with either hand, and staying vigilant even when a larger partner is present, treating a carried gun as something comforting rather than comfortable. What are Clint Smith's top historical firearms? Smith closes the episode by naming his top firearms and arguing that public education should be grounded more in history, though the specific models are covered in the discussion itself rather than summarized here. Chapters 00:00 — Meet Clint Smith, founder of Thunder Ranch 00:21 — What he changed his mind on about training 01:54 — Why train inside seven yards 02:38 — Communicate, move, shoot only if you have to 04:18 — The long gun, the pistol, and the 1986 Miami FBI shooting 05:43 — Pistols are convenience, rifles end fights 09:51 — Best firearm for home defense 13:00 — Possession is not competency 17:25 — Verbalize, create distance, fight to win 21:42 — Flipping the switch to defend yourself 27:34 — Training the mental side and rehearsing scenarios 34:11 — Carrying when you are small, and around kids 39:08 — From the soapbox: be safe with firearms 43:00 — Top historical firearms and learning history About the guest Clint Smith is the founder of Thunder Ranch. He is a U.S. Marine Corps combat veteran who joined in 1967, served from 1967 to 1970, and did two infantry tours in Vietnam. He is also a law enforcement veteran whose career included time on a sheriff's department. He started his Urban Rifle class in 1983, ran a school in Texas for five-day classes for 11 years, and later taught three-day classes in Oregon for two or three years. He is married to Heidi and, at the time of recording, was 76 years old and living in Wyoming. He appeared in a 2001 60 Minutes segment and previously wrote a column for American Handgunner. Key quotes "Pistols are tools of convenience. Pistols are not tools of effectiveness. If you want to end a fight, you shoot the son of a gun with a rifle." — Clint Smith "Handguns put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people." — Clint Smith "possession of a firearm does not equate to competency." — Clint Smith "If you want competency, it costs money." — Clint Smith "they weren't supposed to be comfortable, they're supposed to be comforting." — Clint Smith "You can do everything in life. New husband, new wife, new car, new washer, new dryer. Okay, everything. But you can never pull a bullet back." — Clint Smith "Know all your students. Trust none of them." — Clint Smith

Stellar Arms co-owner Scott Melton joins Kaylee and John for the season three premiere of Gun Owners of America's State of the Second, recorded in the show's new studio. Stellar Arms is a smaller precision rifle manufacturer out of Lincoln, Nebraska, with roots in aerospace. Its founder, Ty, came from the aerospace world and started doing custom firearms work about 15 years ago, and the company's sister operation, originally called MASP Enterprises, still produces aerospace parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That aerospace background drives how Stellar builds firearms: tight tolerances, most parts made in-house, quality control on outsourced parts, and a willingness to scrap components that don't meet spec. Scott's argument is that a loose-tolerance AR will still function, but it won't hold accuracy, which is why every Stellar rifle ships with a lifetime warranty and a card signed by the armorer who checked, assembled, and test-fired it. A big stretch of the episode is about firearms as art. Stellar has stepped outside traditional marketing, including building the Maximus rifle in a collaboration with Andre Alofsky and delivering one to Dana White. Scott talks about the company's diamond-engraved Executive model, cut on a CNC machine with the upper, lower, and handguard attached so the lines transfer perfectly, and about working with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault. He plans to release certain parts in a raw form this year so customers can Cerakote, paint, and customize their own builds. The conversation ties this to a cultural shift: more recognizable names are comfortable being public about firearms, and the group sees custom and limited-run guns as a lower barrier to entry that brings new people into the Second Amendment community. The back half moves into legacy and the why behind gun ownership. Scott frames Stellar's mission around building rifles you can pass down, the same way his great-grandfather's and grandfather's guns were passed to him. Kaylee connects that to defending the Second Amendment across generations, arguing the right has to be nurtured through experiences like range days, classes, and building an AR together, not just inherited by owning a safe full of guns. The Soapbox segment digs into attacks on firearm safety and hunter education in schools, the loss of community after COVID, the value of the trades, and how social media has pulled people away from real connection. Scott also makes the case that an armed citizenry has been a deterrent to foreign attack on the American mainland. The episode closes with Stellar's contact info, a thank-you to Palmetto State Armory for sponsoring guest gifts, and a push for GOALS, GOA's 50th anniversary event in Des Moines, Iowa, August 1st and 2nd. Questions this episode answers What is Stellar Arms, and how does its aerospace background shape how it builds rifles? Stellar Arms is a smaller precision rifle manufacturer in Lincoln, Nebraska, with aerospace roots through its founder, Ty, and a sister operation that makes parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That background drives tight tolerances, in-house manufacturing, and scrapping anything that misses spec. Why was the company originally called MASP, and what does its sister company make? Stellar Arms was formerly known as MASP Enterprises, and its sister operation under that name still produces aerospace parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That aerospace manufacturing background is what carried over into how Stellar builds its rifles. What rifle did Stellar Arms build for Dana White, and who did they collaborate with on it? Stellar Arms built the Maximus rifle in a collaboration with Andre Alofsky and delivered one to Dana White. It was part of the company stepping outside traditional marketing and treating firearms as art. What makes Stellar's diamond-engraved Executive model different from a laser-engraved gun? The Executive model is diamond-engraved and cut on a CNC machine with the upper, lower, and handguard attached, so the engraved lines transfer perfectly across all three parts. Stellar worked with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault on this kind of work. Why does every Stellar rifle come with a lifetime warranty and a signed card from the armorer? Scott Melton argues a loose-tolerance AR will still function but won't hold accuracy, so Stellar ships every rifle with a lifetime warranty and a card signed by the armorer who checked, assembled, and test-fired it. It's how the company stands behind its precision standard. Should the firearms industry lean into fun, custom designs instead of only tactical black rifles? Scott Melton makes the case that custom and limited-run guns lower the barrier to entry and bring new people into the Second Amendment community. Stellar plans to release certain parts in raw form so customers can Cerakote, paint, and customize their own builds. How do the hosts and guest think about firearms as art versus firearms as a tool? Scott Melton frames a rifle as something that should still function as a high-performing tool while also being allowed to look good, like customizing a car. The episode ties this to a cultural shift where more recognizable names are comfortable being public about firearms. Why do Scott and Kaylee say legacy and passing rifles down matter for defending the Second Amendment? Scott Melton frames Stellar's mission around building rifles you can pass down, the way his great-grandfather's and grandfather's guns came to him. Kaylee argues the Second Amendment has to be nurtured through range days, classes, and building an AR together, not just inherited by owning a safe full of guns. Chapters 00:00 — Season three welcome and meeting Scott Melton 00:41 — Stellar Arms, the MASP name, and aerospace roots 02:11 — What makes their AR stand out: precision and tolerances 03:47 — Coatings, custom designs, and pushing the AR forward 05:33 — The Dana White Maximus rifle and the Alofsky collab 07:37 — Celebrities going public and growing the community 09:00 — Should the industry embrace more fun designs 10:53 — Guns as art versus guns as a tool 17:52 — The CNC-cut Executive and the armorer's signature 20:15 — Legacy and the Second Amendment as a deterrent 23:54 — Gun safety, history, and education in schools 27:12 — Building an AR, AR builder classes, and lost skills 31:10 — Soapbox: legacy, the next generation, and community 39:20 — Trades, social media, and parting words 46:28 — Wrap-up, Stellar Arms contact, and GOALS event About the guest Scott Melton is a co-owner of Stellar Arms, a precision rifle manufacturer based in Lincoln, Nebraska, formerly known as MASP Enterprises. He says he has 14 years in the firearms industry and a history in product development. He lives in the Arizona desert, near Phoenix, and has four kids. He works closely with Andre Alofsky and with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault, and Stellar built the Maximus rifle that was delivered to Dana White. Key quotes "we really pride ourselves on keeping everything, you know, to a very high standard." — Scott Melton "will a rifle function with loose tolerances? Yes. But will it maintain accuracy? No." — Scott Melton "we build it to last and function, but want to make it your own, just like a car or anything else." — Scott Melton "You have to have those foundations and then build upon them." — Kaylee "It can still be used as a tool and it should function as a, you know, high performing tool. But that doesn't mean it can't look good too" — Scott Melton "We have to have legacy in mind." — Kaylee "the smartest people are the greatest listeners." — Scott Melton

Ben Stacy of Forge Relations returns to State of the Second to talk about how firearms brands need to market as 2026 arrives. Hosts John Fahrner and Kaylee open with the core problem: the dedicated, everyday gun owners are already reached, so the real question is how to get the next group interested. Ben names them plainly, the young mother worried about her safety and the recent college grad into overlanding or sports, and argues the first move is going where the customer already is. That means TikTok and YouTube, the platforms new owners actually use, even when those platforms are hostile to the industry. Kaylee adds the women's-side view: empowerment has shifted from a buzzword to a daily reality, with moms seeking concealed carry options, stop the bleed training, and firearm safety classes for their kids. A theme runs through the whole conversation: people buy from people, not from companies. Ben pushes brands to be their own best content creator, find creators inside their community, tell the backstory, and show behind the curtain. He uses Palmetto State Armory as the example, both when products sell out and when a project gets canceled and Cameron gets on camera to explain why, the kind of transparency that earns trust. He and Kaylee argue that loyalty follows when values align, and that in the firearms space, where the product ties to a constitutional right, brands should draw a line in the sand rather than stay in the middle. John presses on the value proposition: new buyers care less about metal coatings and round counts and more about whether a product works, fits a budget, and can protect their family. The group also breaks down a real shift, that new owners want one multifaceted tool rather than a separate gun for each job. The closing Soapbox segment is the bluntest stretch. Ben's spicy take: get over yourself, go where the people are, work within the platforms' limits, and stop complaining that you cannot run ads. John shares hard experience building a TikTok page to 120,000, getting deplatformed, and rebuilding it twice, with a clip that hit a million views and produced sales. Both land on the same place: marketing is experimenting and being comfortable with failure, building a community over time, and staying consistent instead of giving up on a platform after a slow start. Ben's parting line ties it together: the more you try to sell your product, the less of it you will sell. Be genuine, stand for something, and connect with people. Forge Relations has been in the gun and defense space since 2013, online at forgerelations.com. Questions this episode answers Who are the new gun owners brands should be trying to reach in 2026? Ben Stacy points to the customers beyond the dedicated everyday gun owner, like the young mother worried about her safety and the recent college grad into overlanding or sports. The dedicated crowd is already reached, so growth comes from getting these next groups interested. Why should firearms companies be on TikTok and YouTube even when those platforms are hostile to the industry? Stacy's core rule is to go where the customer already is, and new owners actually use TikTok and YouTube. Brands should work within the platforms' limits rather than avoid them just because the platforms are unfriendly to firearms. How can a firearms brand market itself when it can't run paid ads on the major platforms? Instead of complaining about the ad ban, brands should build community through organic content, become their own best content creator, and stay consistent on the platforms new buyers use. Marketing here is experimenting, getting comfortable with failure, and building an audience over time. Why do new buyers care more about the value proposition than specs like metal coatings and round counts? New owners care whether a product works, fits their budget, and can protect their family, not the technical details that excite enthusiasts. The value proposition speaks to that buyer; spec talk does not. How does a company turn from a manufacturer into a lifestyle brand customers stay loyal to? Loyalty follows when values align, so brands should tell their backstory, show behind the curtain, and find creators inside their community. People buy from people, not from companies, and standing for something earns trust over time. What does Palmetto State Armory do that earns consumer trust? Palmetto State Armory shows transparency in both good and bad moments, including when a project gets canceled and Cameron gets on camera to explain why. That honesty, not just hype when products sell out, is what builds trust. What should a company do when it gets deplatformed after building an audience? Rebuild and stay consistent. Host John Fahrner grew a TikTok page to 120,000, got deplatformed, and rebuilt it twice, eventually landing a clip that hit a million views and drove sales. Why does trying harder to sell your product end up selling less of it? Stacy's point is that the more you push the sale, the less people buy, because audiences respond to genuine connection over a hard pitch. Be genuine, stand for something, and connect with people, and the sales follow. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome back, Ben Stacy of Forge Relations 00:29 — 2026 outlook: the slowdown and reaching the next group 02:15 — Going where the customer is, not where they're dying off 03:34 — The young mother and the mindset shift on TikTok 06:05 — Personal responsibility meets practical application 08:31 — Firearms as one tool: educate, don't just sell 11:20 — Be your own best content creator; people buy from people 13:51 — Loyalty when values align; drawing a line in the sand 18:37 — Value proposition over buzzwords for new buyers 20:40 — Kaylee's first gun and the why behind buying 26:08 — New owners want one multifaceted gun 32:29 — Spend a week behind the gun counter 34:55 — Accessibility and events like GOALS and Women's Range Day 39:19 — Soapbox: get over yourself and go where the people are 41:22 — Deplatforming, experimenting, and staying consistent 47:27 — Sell less by selling harder; where to find Forge About the guest Ben Stacy is from Forge Relations, a digital marketing firm in the gun industry and defense space that has been doing this work since 2013. The company can be found online at forgerelations.com and on the same handle across socials. He is a returning guest on the State of the Second podcast and describes himself as a parent of a toddler. Key quotes "you have to go where the customer is." — Ben Stacy "you're not buying from a company, you're buying from a person." — Ben Stacy "the more you try to sell your product, the lesser your product you will sell." — Ben Stacy "I think a lot of it boils down to personal responsibility meeting practical application." — Kaylee "The people who are the loudest on the Internet are the people who want the new fast, tactical, cool, fast thing." — John Fahrner

Adelina May joins State of the Second to talk about how women actually carry a firearm day to day, and why most of the conventional advice misses the people it claims to serve. She runs Girls Just Want to Have Guns, a company with women instructors and women attendees that teaches women across the country to go from anxious around a gun to confident enough to carry every day. Her path started young. She grew up with guns in the home, started training around age 12 when her dad pulled her into his church security team's range sessions, moved into competitive shooting, and has been a grandmaster for the last six years. Working at a manufacturer during Covid showed her how many people buy a gun and assume they can use it, and a conversation with her own mom, who couldn't unload the gun kept by the bed without being shown, convinced her most women in America had never actually been taught. Adelina's core argument is about meeting women where they already are. She builds her classes as events, not lectures, with branded pink gear, gift bags, raffles, and a group photo, so first-timers show up excited instead of intimidated. On gear, her first recommendation is always a good holster in hard plastic or Kydex with a clip that won't pull out when you draw, like an Ulti clip or DCC clip. On training, she focuses on conceptual understanding, real-life scenarios through her monthly gun club, and dry-firing from the actual position and outfit you carry in. She is direct about the parts of the industry that hold women back: gun-store staff who steer women to a gun because it's pink or small instead of what performs, product launches that only picture tactical models, and instructors who tear new shooters down or ban long nails from class. The hosts and Adelina dig into mindset and instruction, including why spouses often make poor teachers, how a single negative comment can take many positive ones to undo, and when an instructor should stop correcting and just let a student shoot. The conversation closes on the soapbox segment, where Adelina names what the industry still misses: relatability. She argues that if every model in the marketing is jacked, tactical, or a dark femme fatale, the average woman concludes the gun world isn't for her. Her fix is to show real people in real clothing doing real things, then train women to perform in what they actually wear, cute dress and heels included. Questions this episode answers What is the first accessory a new concealed carrier should invest in, and why? Adelina Mae's first recommendation is always a good holster in hard plastic or Kydex, paired with a clip that won't pull out when you draw, like an Ulti clip or DCC clip. A holster that stays put on the draw is the foundation everything else builds on. How does Girls Just Want to Have Guns make a firearms class feel like an event instead of an intimidating lecture? She builds her classes as events rather than lectures, with branded pink gear, gift bags, raffles, and a group photo. The goal is for first-timers to show up excited instead of intimidated. Why does Adelina say so many women own a gun but don't actually know how to use it? Working at a manufacturer during Covid showed her how many people buy a gun and simply assume they can use it. A conversation with her own mom, who couldn't unload the bedside gun without being shown, convinced her most women in America had never actually been taught. What mindset issues do women bring into a first class, and how does she work through them? Many women arrive anxious and easily shaken, and Adelina Mae notes that a single negative comment can take many positive ones to undo. She works through it by knowing when to stop correcting and simply let a student shoot. Why are spouses often the wrong people to teach their partner to shoot? Adelina Mae and the hosts discuss why spouses often make poor instructors, tying it to how easily a single negative comment can set a new shooter back. A neutral instructor avoids the personal dynamic that makes correction land harder between partners. How are women treated and sold guns at gun stores, and what should they do before buying? She is direct that gun-store staff often steer women toward a gun because it's pink or small instead of what actually performs. Her counter is to focus on performance over appearance and to get real instruction rather than trusting a store's snap recommendation. What is the industry still missing when it comes to reaching women in 2026? Adelina Mae's answer is relatability. When every model in the marketing is jacked, tactical, or a dark femme fatale, the average woman concludes the gun world isn't for her, so she argues for showing real people in real clothing doing real things. What everyday drills and practice does Adelina recommend for carriers? She focuses on conceptual understanding, real-life scenarios through her monthly gun club, and dry-firing from the actual position and outfit you carry in. The principle is to train the way you'll actually perform, cute dress and heels included. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions 02:01 — First accessory to upgrade: get a good holster 03:10 — Top drills for everyday practice 05:13 — Who Adelina is and how she got into firearms 08:13 — Building a class into a fun, branded event 11:37 — Concealing in real outfits and the creator approach 14:01 — How companies are building for women 15:56 — Mindset issues women bring into class 20:15 — Why spouses make poor instructors 21:25 — Corrections, encouragement, and the seven-to-one rule 27:08 — How women are sold guns at the gun store 30:37 — Soapbox: what the industry is missing on relatability 38:45 — Where to find Adelina and the GOALS summit About the guest Adelina May is a female-only firearms instructor and the owner of Girls Just Want to Have Guns, a company with women instructors and women attendees that teaches women across the country how to go from scared and anxious with a firearm to confident, effective, and carrying every day. She grew up with guns in the home and started shooting around age five. She began training near age 12 alongside her dad's church security team, moved into competitive shooting, and has been a grandmaster for the last six years. She worked at a firearms manufacturer during Covid and has worked at gun stores. She also runs a monthly gun club and shares concealed-carry and educational content on social media. Key quotes "the first thing I tell people is that regardless of what you do, you have to have a holster." — Adelina May "we teach women across the country how to go from scared and anxious with a firearm to confident, effective, and even carrying every day." — Adelina May "they think they can automatically use them and they have no idea what they're doing." — Adelina May "when somebody says something negative to you, it takes seven positive things to outweigh that one negative thing." — Adelina May "we want to train, like, how you're going to perform." — Adelina May "I think companies really need to start looking at their marketing and going, hey, we need to market to the average gun owner or the person who is just getting into this." — John

State of the Second welcomes back Dan and Danielle Morton, the husband-and-wife owners of Ammo Squared, for a wide-ranging conversation about ammunition as a stored asset and what real preparedness looks like. The Mortons started Ammo Squared in 2015 out of their garage and describe the company as building an ammunition safety net for America. Their model flips the usual transaction: you buy a generic need, like 9 millimeter practice, store it with the company, and have it shipped whenever you want. Since their last appearance the business has grown fast, from about 40,000 members to 147,000, and they just opened a second facility in Texas after celebrating a 10-year anniversary in Boise. Most of the episode digs into how a storage-first ammo company actually operates. Dan walks through the caliber-of-the-month approach, the lesson learned from once offering more than 500 calibers and getting stuck on ones they could not restock, and why widespread adoption has to exist before a caliber makes business sense. They talk through how shortages work on their side, where an auto buy keeps running and customers wait in line for allocation, and why major NATO calibers get prioritized by manufacturers during a crunch. Kaylee adds the consumer view, including how the platform simplifies choices for first-time gun owners by labeling rounds by purpose instead of brand, and the dopamine hit of watching an account grow in the background. The hosts and guests also riff on April Fools' products that accidentally revealed real demand, and Dan previews a next-generation platform that would let members speak or type what they want and use AI to build an ammo plan. The back half turns serious. Dan frames ammo as a store of value, comparing it to gold and silver and noting some customers have sold stored inventory back when they needed cash. In the From the Soapbox segment, the conversation moves to personal sovereignty, public education, and Second Amendment education, including GOA's reminder that rights are constitutionally protected rather than government granted. Ammo Squared's stated long-term vision is to store one billion rounds over the next ten years across 10 to 20 warehouses, positioning itself as America's ammunition reserve so future shortages lose their sting. Questions this episode answers What is Ammo Squared's business model, and how is it different from buying ammo through normal e-commerce or a gun store? Ammo Squared is a storage-first ammunition service: members buy a generic need like 9 millimeter practice, store it with the company, and have it shipped whenever they want. That flips the usual transaction, letting people build a stockpile in the background instead of buying and taking delivery all at once. How much has Ammo Squared grown since the founders' last appearance on the show? The company grew from about 40,000 members to 147,000 members. It also opened a second facility in Texas and marked its 10-year anniversary in Boise, with a team of roughly 28 to 30 people. Why did the company cut back from more than 500 calibers, and how does the caliber-of-the-month program work now? Ammo Squared once offered more than 500 calibers and got stuck holding ones it could not restock, so it pared back. Now it adds calibers through a caliber-of-the-month approach and does not stock a caliber until someone signs up for it, then stays just ahead of that demand. What happens to a customer's auto buy during an ammunition shortage? During a shortage the auto buy keeps running while customers wait in line for allocation. Major NATO calibers tend to get prioritized by manufacturers during a crunch, so they flow more reliably than niche rounds. How does the platform make buying ammo easier for first-time gun owners? The platform labels rounds by purpose instead of by brand, which simplifies the choice for first-time gun owners. Members can set it and forget it, then log back in later and watch the stored count grow in the background. Why do the founders describe ammo as a store of value, and can members sell it back? Dan Morton frames ammunition as a tangible store of value comparable to gold and silver, something that will not go to zero. Some members have sold stored inventory back to the company when they needed cash. What is Ammo Squared's long-term goal for stored ammunition and warehouses? The stated long-term vision is to store one billion rounds over the next ten years across roughly 10 to 20 warehouses. The aim is to position Ammo Squared as America's ammunition reserve so future shortages lose their sting. What new platform features are the founders planning, including how AI might fit in? Dan Morton previewed a next-generation platform that would let members speak or type what they want and use AI to build an ammo plan for them. The episode also touched on April Fools' products that accidentally revealed real customer demand. Chapters 00:16 — Rapid fire questions 02:45 — Who Ammo Squared is and the safety-net model 03:53 — Rapid expansion to 147,000 members 06:54 — Caliber strategy and caliber of the month 11:25 — When a new caliber is worth carrying 15:02 — How shortages and waiting in line work 16:34 — Simplifying ammo for first-time gun owners 20:37 — Set it and forget it, plus variety boxes 23:55 — Next-gen platform and AI ammo plans 27:32 — April Fools products that revealed real demand 31:07 — What's next: one billion rounds stored 36:02 — Ammo as a store of value 40:28 — From the Soapbox: sovereignty and education 53:29 — Where to find Ammo Squared and GOALS 2026 About the guest Dan and Danielle Morton are the owners and founders of Ammo Squared, which they started in 2015 out of their garage and run from Boise. The company stores ammunition for members and ships it on demand, and the Mortons describe it as building an ammunition safety net for America. By this episode the business had grown to 147,000 members, recently opened a second facility in Texas, and marked its 10-year anniversary with a company of about 28 to 30 people. Danielle has said they homeschooled their three daughters and graduated their last one this year. Their stated long-term goal is to store one billion rounds of ammunition over the next ten years. Key quotes "essentially, America's ammunition reserve is what we talk about in our tagline. It's literally a safety net." — Dan Morton "we don't stock that caliber until somebody actually signs up for it. And then once they sign up for it, we just need to stay ahead of them." — Dan Morton "There has to be widespread adoption because if there's not, then it just doesn't make sense to carry it." — Danielle Morton "you set it up like we say set it and forget it and then you forget about it. And then you log in and you're like wow, I've got 300 rounds." — Dan Morton "We're actually looking at a goal of storing 1 billion rounds of ammunition." — Dan Morton "when you think about ammo, it's a store of value, right? It's like silver. In my mind, it's like silver. It's like gold. It is something tangible that will never go to zero." — Dan Morton "your rights are constitutionally protected. They're not government granted, they're not gifts because, you know, we have rights, not privileges." — Kaylee

State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with John "Chappie" Chapman, founder of the Task Force 70 Foundation. Chapman has been a law enforcement officer since 1992 and has spent most of that career as a SWAT operator and a trainer. He started his first civilian training company around 1998 after noticing there was not much actual force application training going on beyond the square range. Task Force 70 began about three years ago and went public roughly four months before this recording. Its mission is to train the small-town cops who get little or no training, the officers who make up the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often 12 officers or less. The foundation takes no government money, partners with GOA and Hillsdale College, and runs on private donations. The conversation gets into why the gap exists. Chapman walks through the three levels of police training and explains that the large departments have gotten better at training over the last 20 years while the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material with no full-time training guy. He draws a hard line between qualification and training: qualification is a standardized test that a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target, while real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and contextual processing. Shooting, he says, is only maybe 10% of gunfighting. The foundation teaches five topics, and the first is constitutional judgment, because officers are taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated." The episode also speaks directly to armed citizens. Chapman's advice for a traffic stop is plain: be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs at the Article 3 level, in front of a judge. He tells CCW holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along. He closes on trust between communities and their police, the idea that authority is responsibility rather than power, and a call for support at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds training and enters donors in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway. Questions this episode answers What is the Task Force 70 Foundation and why was it created? It is a privately funded nonprofit founded by John "Chappie" Chapman to train small-town police officers who get little or no training. It targets the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often with 12 officers or less. Why do most small-town police officers receive so little training? Large departments have improved their training over the last 20 years, but the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material and have no full-time training staff. Most small agencies lack the resources for the kind of contextual instruction officers actually need. What is the difference between firearms qualification and real training? Qualification is a standardized test that proves a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target. Real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and reading context, and Chapman says shooting is only about 10% of gunfighting. How should an armed citizen handle a traffic stop or police interaction? Chapman's advice is to be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs in front of a judge at the Article 3 level. Why does the foundation teach the Constitution instead of just case law and amendments? Officers are usually taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated." The foundation's first of five topics is constitutional judgment, which builds that missing foundation. Is a concealed carry permit the same as being trained? No. Chapman tells concealed carry holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along. Why does Task Force 70 refuse government funding? The foundation takes no government money and runs entirely on private donations, partnering with Gun Owners of America and Hillsdale College. This keeps its training independent of government influence. How can people support the foundation and what do donors receive? Supporters can give at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds officer training. Each monthly donation also enters the donor in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and guest intro: John Chapman of Task Force 70 00:10 — Rapid fire: EDC pick, training gaps, home defense 02:53 — Who is Chappie and what is Task Force 70 06:37 — The three levels of police training and the bottom 70% 09:11 — Qualification vs. training: shooting is 10% of gunfighting 11:53 — The two-headed snake: citizen and officer interactions 16:02 — A permit is not training: get contextual instruction 20:10 — How to handle a traffic stop: be polite and comply 27:51 — Officers mirror your behavior: driving the interaction 29:30 — Soapbox: constitutional judgment and the missing curriculum 35:03 — Primary Arms sponsor read 35:29 — Trust, the Constitution, and the Federalist Papers 44:34 — Faction, the republic, and educating every generation 45:29 — Where to find Task Force 70 and how to support it About the guest John "Chappie" Chapman is the founder of the Task Force 70 Foundation. He has been a law enforcement officer since 1992, going back and forth between full time and part time, and has spent most of his career as a SWAT operator and a trainer. He has been in the firearms industry since he was a teenager, working mostly on technical expertise for product development, and started civilian training in about 1998. He has worked for a long time with Bravo Company as a gunfighter. He started Task Force 70 about three years ago and went public roughly four months before this recording; the foundation partners with GOA and Hillsdale College, where Dr. Regan is his mentor. He is now a detective after years in patrol. Key quotes "Police shootings have very little to do with marksmanship." — John Chapman "Having a permit is not training." — John Chapman "The police don't work for the government." — John Chapman "The first question should be, is that endangering me or the public?" — John Chapman "It is not power in our constitutional form of government." — John Chapman

Gabby Franco joins State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John for a conversation that starts with a simple message for anyone who's been shooting for years: the basics still win. Before drilling speed, she says, work precision and transitions, because most shooters rush past the fundamentals. Franco brings 30-plus years behind a gun to the table. She started as an Olympic shooter at age 11 in Venezuela, worked six years as a gun shop sales rep after moving to the United States, and competed on Top Shot in seasons four and five. That range of experience shapes how she talks about the sport, the industry, and the people in it. Much of the episode draws on her firsthand view of Venezuela before and after socialism. She describes a country that once had stocked grocery stores and a thriving shooting culture, with the state even providing pistols and ammunition to junior athletes, and how that unraveled after Hugo Chavez came to power. Her warning to gun owners in restrictive states like California and New York is not to leave but to stay and fight, and to understand that culture shifts slowly when a generation grows up without ever learning what the Second Amendment is. She also pushes gun owners to change how they talk to people who disagree. Listen first, invite them to the range later, and let the experience do the convincing. The back half digs into identity and the industry. Franco breaks down why she rejects the idea of a monolithic gun culture, sharing stories about a range encounter in Texas and her own family, including a mother who supported her shooting career despite firing a gun maybe once in her life. She explains why the Hispanic firearms market is growing, crediting social media and good content for chipping away at an old stigma. The episode closes from the soapbox, where Franco and the hosts make the case that supporting the Second Amendment means doing something, taking a friend shooting, backing organizations doing the work, and asking big companies in the industry to stand up openly rather than stay quiet. Questions this episode answers Why do experienced shooters still need to focus on the fundamentals instead of speed? Gabby Franco says most shooters rush past precision and transitions in a hurry to shoot fast. After 30-plus years behind a gun, her message is that the basics still win, so work the fundamentals before drilling speed. What was Venezuela's gun culture like before socialism, and how did it change under Hugo Chavez? Franco describes a Venezuela that once had stocked grocery stores and a thriving shooting culture, where the state even provided pistols and ammunition to junior athletes. That unraveled after Hugo Chavez came to power, which shapes her warning about how quickly a free culture can be lost. What advice does Gabby Franco give gun owners living in restrictive states like California and New York? Her advice is not to leave but to stay and fight. She argues that culture shifts slowly, and that the danger grows when a generation grows up without ever learning what the Second Amendment is. How should gun owners talk to people who are anti-gun or undecided? Franco urges gun owners to change how they engage: listen first, then invite the person to the range and let the experience do the convincing. She frames a firearm as a tool whose intention, not the object itself, makes it good or bad. Why is the Hispanic firearms market growing now when it wasn't before? Franco credits social media and good content for chipping away at an old stigma around firearms. That shift is opening the door for more Hispanic gun owners and helping grow the market. What does it actually mean to support the Second Amendment if you're a regular, busy citizen? Franco and the hosts argue that supporting the Second Amendment means doing something concrete, like taking a friend shooting or backing organizations doing the work. It is about personal responsibility, not just holding an opinion. What role should big firearms companies play in defending the Second Amendment? Franco makes the case that big companies in the industry should stand up openly for the Second Amendment rather than stay quiet. She also says egos in the industry need to come down so people support those who can do the work. What is Gabby Franco's background as a shooter and competitor? Franco started as an Olympic shooter at age 11 in Venezuela and joined the national team in 1996. After moving to the United States she worked six years as a gun shop sales rep and competed on Top Shot in seasons four and five. Chapters 00:09 — Rapid fire questions with Gabby 03:14 — From Venezuela to Olympic shooter to Top Shot 04:11 — What working in a gun shop taught her 05:11 — Inside the Top Shot experience 08:04 — Highlighting the person behind the gun 10:11 — Venezuela before and after socialism 14:16 — Division in society and how to talk to anti-gunners 16:22 — What gun culture in Venezuela looked like 20:33 — Stay and fight in California and New York 28:23 — Breaking the monolithic gun owner stereotype 33:05 — Raising kids on the Second Amendment and resilience 36:55 — Why the Hispanic firearms market is growing 46:12 — From the Soapbox: do something, take personal responsibility 55:52 — Big companies should support the Second Amendment openly About the guest Gabby Franco is a competitive shooter and firearms instructor who has been shooting for more than 30 years. Born and raised in Venezuela, she started as an Olympic shooter at age 11, joined Venezuela's national team in 1996, and competed for her country overseas. After moving to the United States, she worked at a gun shop as a sales rep for six years and went on to compete on Top Shot in seasons four and five. She holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and is finishing a master's in sport and performance psychology. She is sponsored by Primary Arms and Walther Arms. Franco can be found at gabbyfranco.com, on Twitter as @GabbyFrancoTS4, and on YouTube as Gabby Franco. Key quotes "everybody's so fast into trying to go and shooting fast and they forget about the fundamentals" — Gabby Franco "you don't know what you have until you lose it" — Gabby Franco "the tool doesn't make it good or bad, it's the intention that is behind it" — Gabby Franco "Let the experience speak for itself and change that attitude and change their mind" — Gabby Franco "I think the egos have to come down too in the industry and recognize that let's support those who can do that type of job" — Gabby Franco

Kristen from Laser Ammo joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to make the case for dry fire training that people will actually do. She runs marketing and social media for Laser Ammo, shoots USPSA and IDPA competition, and trains women through her own firearms business. Her core message is simple: too many people don't practice, and too many get complacent about safety. Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company that has been around since 2009, started in Israel for defensive shooters, and holds about 13 patents. The conversation walks through how the products work. There's a drop-in laser where you rack the slide and pull the trigger, plus a partnership with Dry Fire Mag for what Laser Ammo calls the Surestrike mag, which auto-resets so you can pull the trigger without racking. The lineup also includes reactive targets with a built-in timer, recoil-enabled Airsoft guns fitted with a laser barrel, a flash bolt that replaces an AR's bolt carrier group, and the Smokeless Range home simulator. The simulator runs on a standard Windows computer with no apps needed, takes a quality projector pointed at a flat wall or screen, and ships with 10 core drills you can run solo or head-to-head, plus 13 different add-ons. Add-ons include a competition match builder you can share and the Video Scenario Trainer with branching scenarios and a hundred built-in situations. Kristen frames the value as cutting the barriers that stop busy people from practicing, like a range an hour away, bad weather, or kids at home, and points out that five or ten minutes a day fixing one flaw beats no practice at all. The back half gets into who Kristen trains and why. She works in the women's advocacy space because women learn differently and often get talked over at the range, and she pushes them to load their own magazines, clean their own guns, and use the right terminology. John backs her up with a warning for husbands not to train their own spouses. The episode also covers practicing the full draw, including racking the slide and dropping the safety, since those are the first things to fail under pressure. On the Soapbox segment, Kristen argues that gun owners need to get involved locally and politically, vote, do their research, and have hard conversations, while Kaylee ties it to going on offense for the Second Amendment, constitutional carry, and GOA's lawsuit against the NFA. You can find Laser Ammo at laserammo.com and Kristen personally at wtfkristen.com (Women Training Firearms). Questions this episode answers What is Laser Ammo and how long has the company been around? Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company founded in 2009, started in Israel for defensive shooters. It holds roughly 13 patents and builds laser-based tools that let people practice trigger work at home. How does dry fire training with a laser work, and do you need a phone or app? A drop-in laser fires when you rack the slide and pull the trigger, and the Surestrike mag (a partnership with Dry Fire Mag) auto-resets so you can keep pulling without racking. The Smokeless Range home simulator runs on a standard Windows computer with no apps needed. What does the Smokeless Range home simulator include, and what hardware do you need to run it? It runs on a standard Windows computer with a quality projector aimed at a flat wall or screen, no apps required. It ships with 10 core drills you can run solo or head-to-head, plus 13 add-ons including a shareable match builder and the Video Scenario Trainer with about a hundred branching situations. How much practice is enough, and how do you fix a specific shooting flaw? Kristen says five or ten minutes a day spent fixing one flaw beats no practice at all, and there's no rule that you have to drill for an hour. Dry fire removes the barriers that stop busy people from training, like a distant range, bad weather, or kids at home. Why do women face barriers getting into firearms, and why shouldn't a husband train his wife? Kristen works in women's advocacy because women learn differently and often get talked over at the range, so she pushes them to load their own magazines, clean their own guns, and use the right terminology. Co-host John warns men flatly not to train their own spouses. Why does racking the slide and working the safety matter so much under pressure? Kristen stresses practicing the full draw, including racking the slide and dropping the safety, because those mechanics are the first things to fail under stress. Building them into muscle memory through live and dry fire is what makes them hold up when it counts. Why does Kristen think gun owners need to get involved locally and politically? On the Soapbox segment, Kristen argues gun owners should vote, do their research, get involved locally, and have hard conversations because these issues affect everyone. Co-host Kaylee ties it to going on offense for the Second Amendment, constitutional carry, and Gun Owners of America's lawsuit against the NFA. Where can you find Laser Ammo and Kristen online? Laser Ammo is at laserammo.com, and Kristen's personal training business is at wtfkristen.com, which stands for Women Training Firearms. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions 02:35 — Who is Kristen and how she got into the industry 03:55 — What Laser Ammo is and why it matters 04:38 — How the products work, from drop-in laser to Surestrike mag 05:46 — The Smokeless Range home simulator and hardware 07:15 — Drills, scenarios, and the Video Scenario Trainer 09:35 — Why practice matters and cutting the barriers 12:24 — Training women and the barriers to entry 15:56 — Why men shouldn't train their spouse 21:16 — Armchair quarterbacks and practicing under pressure 24:19 — Carrying in the chamber and working the safety 25:43 — Soapbox: getting involved locally and politically 29:41 — Constitutional carry, the NFA, and the 27 words 33:38 — Where to find Kristen and Laser Ammo About the guest Kristen is from Laser Ammo, where she runs the company's marketing and social media. She took her first firearms class at 18 from the San Diego Police Department because she wanted to be a cop. As a military kid she moved through Virginia and then Texas, where she joined a ladies group that led her into competition shooting. She shoots USPSA and IDPA, and became a sponsored shooter for Laser Ammo after meeting Pat and Mary Grace McMahon in competition. Her day business is marketing, and she also runs her own firearms training business focused on training women. She sits on the board of her local Republican women's group. Her personal website is wtfkristen.com, which stands for Women Training Firearms. Key quotes "So Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company." — Kristen "there's no rule that says you have to practice 60 minutes a day." — Kristen "practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent." — Kaylee "You're practicing with the tool that hopefully you'll never have to use for self defense, but when you do, you'll have it in muscle memory if you're actually practicing live and dry fire." — Kristen "You need to, you need to vote politically, you need to do your research, you need to get involved because all of these things that impact us" — Kristen "If you're a man out there and you have a spouse, do not train your spouse." — John

PTR vice president Bill Gentry joins hosts John and Kaylee in Myrtle Beach to break down the suppressor technology PTR is built around: PIP, or purposefully induced porosity. It is a 3D-printed approach Gentry describes as titanium foam or inconel foam, built as a single monolithic piece from nose to tail. He says it cannot be machined and could only be 3D printed, and that on a nine millimeter the result is a gun where the action is now louder than the shot. He frames the earliest suppressors as steel wool wrapped and banded on a barrel that worked for about five or six shots, then explains current manufacturing pushes that to a 50,000 to 60,000 round capability. Gentry believes the technology has roughly capped for now, with the better part of nine patents inside the can. The conversation covers PTR's roots and range. The company went to Portugal about 22 years ago and bought the data packages, licensing rights, and tooling for the G3 H&K rifle, then brought manufacturing to South Carolina with a lifetime warranty. Gentry walks through PTR's law enforcement push after the Ukraine war limited H&K component shipments out of Germany, including the LE-only Breacher shotgun and its civilian counterpart the Jack, both 12 gauge AOWs. He also shows a new MP5-pattern SBR built with Magpul and Timney, shipping with a Magpul stock, Magpul handguard, ambidextrous Magpul trigger housing, a Timney two and a half pound two-stage trigger, a 50-round drum, and PTR's first cold hammer forged barrel. Policy and culture run through the back half. Gentry expects a giant rush once the zero dollar tax stamp takes effect on January 1st, and recounts an NSSF meeting with the ATF director and deputy director where he heard the agency knew the rush was coming and was preparing for it. He shares his own story, from winning a trap shootout at 13 against the number three ranked shooter in the country, to leading Cobra and K-USA, to a smart gun chapter where he says he told off Eric Holder and shelved the technology rather than see it mandated. His through line: the firearms industry is a pack of wolves that defends its own but tears apart anyone who folds on the Second Amendment. Questions this episode answers What is PIP, or purposefully induced porosity, and why can it only be 3D printed instead of machined? PIP is the suppressor technology PTR is built around, which vice president Bill Gentry describes as a titanium or inconel foam printed as a single monolithic piece from nose to tail. He says it cannot be machined and could only be 3D printed. How quiet is a PTR suppressor, and what does Gentry mean when he says the action is louder than the shot? Gentry says PIP is so effective that on a nine millimeter the gun's own action becomes louder than the shot itself. The suppressor reduces the muzzle report below the mechanical noise of the cycling action. How many rounds can a modern PIP suppressor handle compared to the earliest steel wool designs? Gentry says the earliest suppressors were steel wool wrapped and banded on a barrel that lasted about five or six shots, while current PTR manufacturing reaches a 50,000 to 60,000 round capability. Where did PTR get the rights and tooling to build its H&K-style firearms? Gentry says PTR went to Portugal about 22 years ago and bought the data packages, licensing rights, and tooling for the G3 H&K rifle, then brought manufacturing to South Carolina with a lifetime warranty. What are the Breacher and the Jack, and how do the law enforcement and civilian versions differ? The Breacher and the Jack are both 12 gauge AOWs that came out of PTR's law enforcement push. The Breacher is law-enforcement-only, while the Jack is its civilian counterpart. What is inside PTR's new MP5-pattern SBR built with Magpul and Timney? Gentry shows an MP5-pattern SBR shipping with a Magpul stock, Magpul handguard, an ambidextrous Magpul trigger housing, a Timney two-and-a-half-pound two-stage trigger, a 50-round drum, and PTR's first cold hammer forged barrel. How does Gentry expect the zero dollar tax stamp on January 1st to affect the suppressor market? Gentry expects a giant rush once the zero dollar tax stamp takes effect on January 1st, and recounts an NSSF meeting where the ATF director and deputy director said the agency knew the rush was coming and was preparing for it. Why does Gentry describe the firearms industry as a pack of wolves? Gentry frames the industry as a pack of wolves that defends and fights for its own with all its might, but tears apart anyone who folds on the Second Amendment. He ties this to a career that ran through Cobra, K-USA, and a smart gun chapter he shelved rather than see the technology mandated. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions 01:13 — Most underrated and overrated firearms 05:10 — Who is Bill Gentry and his career 07:09 — PTR's G3 H&K roots from Portugal 08:38 — Why PTR moved into suppressors 09:31 — PIP technology explained 11:43 — Monolithic prints and round capability 14:06 — Zero dollar tax stamp and the coming rush 16:16 — The Breacher and the Jack shotguns 19:33 — New MP5 SBR with Magpul and Timney 24:37 — Soapbox: ATF as teammates again 27:54 — The industry is a pack of wolves 38:01 — Smart guns and telling off Eric Holder 43:01 — Everyday carry and the Dragon Slayer About the guest Bill Gentry is the vice president of PTR. He says he has been in the firearms industry for more than 25 years, and was president of Cobra Firearms for 16 years, where he says he took the company from number 27 to number 7 in the industry in four years. He went on to K-USA, helped NORMA ammunition prepare for sale before Beretta bought it, and helped bring Bushmaster back in the Reno, Nevada and Carson City area before joining PTR. Key quotes "The sound of the action is now louder than the shot itself." — Bill Gentry "This is something that cannot possibly be machined." — Bill Gentry "The more of us in this industry that there are, the stronger we are to fight when we're under attack." — Bill Gentry "The industry is a pack of wolves and we will defend and fight for each other with all of our might." — Bill Gentry "We're not guessing at what we do." — Bill Gentry

Dustin from Derya joins John and Kaylee on State of the Second to explain how a firearms brand can stand up its own name and start making guns in the United States in record time. He came to the gun industry through an accounting background. He is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after college at the University of Nevada, then joined Arms Corp / Rock Island through his longtime friend Martin Twassen during the company's hyper growth in the 2013 Obama era. He spent close to 12 years there before helping start Derya, which incorporated on March 28, 2024 and was manufacturing guns in the United States within a year. Most of the conversation is a practical look at how Derya runs. Dustin walks through why they chose Jacksonville, Florida for the US factory: it is close to the Savannah port where shipments from Turkey land, Florida is gun friendly and manufacturer friendly, and the labor pool already had manufacturing experience. He explains the company's pricing strategy of starting low to entice buyers, backed by efficient production across over 140 CNC machines in Turkey plus US machines. The DY9 is the flagship and most popular gun, and the team moved 95% of its production from Turkey to the United States. He previews a heavy 2026 lineup: the DY9Z at a $299 MSRP with a 15 round magazine and ten colors, releasing on Black Friday, the TM22 rimfire at $249 on January 1, and a new shotgun at the end of Q1, plus several more projects. Kaylee pushes the discussion toward women buyers, sharing her own struggle to find a concealable carry gun that fits a small hand and her advice that companies wanting to know what colors women want should look at Pinterest wedding palettes. Dustin says women are a big market for Derya and that the brand is leaning into tutorial content and a woman's perspective to make the buying experience less intimidating for first time owners. In the Soapbox segment he gives measured takes on the Glock conversation in the industry and on US manufacturing, arguing tariffs make US investment more attractive but manufacturing here is not easy, and that the United States is the deciding factor for nearly every gun design. He closes by plugging the nonprofit Walk the Talk America, which works to bridge the gap between the firearms and mental health worlds. Questions this episode answers How did Dustin go from a big four accounting career at PwC to the firearms industry? Dustin is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after attending the University of Nevada. His longtime friend Martin Twassen brought him into the gun industry at Arms Corp / Rock Island, where he stayed close to 12 years before helping start Derya. When did Derya incorporate, and how fast did it start manufacturing guns in the United States? Derya incorporated on March 28, 2024, and was manufacturing guns in the United States within a year of starting. Why did Derya choose Jacksonville, Florida for its US factory? Jacksonville is close to the Savannah port where shipments from Turkey land, Florida is gun friendly and manufacturer friendly, and the local labor pool already had manufacturing experience. What is Derya's pricing strategy, and how does it keep prices low without cutting quality? Derya starts prices low to entice buyers, backed by efficient production across more than 140 CNC machines in Turkey plus US machines. Dustin says they use premium material and accept making less money than competitors rather than cutting the product. Which Derya gun is the flagship, and how much of its production moved from Turkey to the US? The DY9 is Derya's flagship and most popular gun, and the team moved 95% of its production from Turkey to the United States. What new products is Derya releasing in 2026, and at what price points? Derya is launching the DY9Z at a $299 MSRP with a 15 round magazine and ten colors on Black Friday, the TM22 rimfire at $249 on January 1, and a new shotgun at the end of Q1, with several more projects to follow. How does Derya think about women as customers and first time gun buyers? Dustin says women are a big market for Derya, so the brand leans into tutorial content and a woman's perspective to make buying a gun less intimidating for first time owners. Co-host Kaylee adds that brands wanting to know which colors women want should study Pinterest wedding palettes. What are Dustin's takes on the Glock conversation and on US versus overseas manufacturing? In the Soapbox segment Dustin gives measured takes on the industry's Glock conversation, and argues tariffs make US investment more attractive while warning that manufacturing here is not easy. He says the United States is the deciding factor for nearly every gun design. Chapters 00:29 — Rapid fire questions 03:18 — Dustin's path from accounting to guns 05:05 — Starting Derya and US manufacturing 06:28 — Building a brand on its own name 07:57 — The DY9 and proving the price point 10:53 — Why Jacksonville for the factory 13:11 — The 2026 product pipeline 17:40 — Colored guns and the market for them 18:42 — What women want in a carry gun 22:06 — Making the brand less intimidating 24:24 — A women's survivors range day 27:24 — Soapbox: the Glock conversation 30:00 — Tariffs and US manufacturing 34:34 — How the US and Turkey teams design together 40:05 — Walk the Talk America and wrap up About the guest Dustin works on the operations side of Derya, the firearms brand featured in this episode. He is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after attending the University of Nevada, and he was born and raised in Las Vegas. He entered the gun industry through his longtime friend Martin Twassen, joining Arms Corp / Rock Island during its growth period and staying close to 12 years before helping start Derya, which incorporated on March 28, 2024. He pitched Jacksonville, Florida as the site for the company's US factory. He is also involved with the nonprofit Walk the Talk America, where he handles the money. His last name is not stated in the episode. Key quotes "we started, incorporated, we started manufacturing guns in the United States within a year later." — Dustin "Any volatility, any challenges creates opportunity." — Dustin "we're using premium material and you're getting a good value product for a good price and we just don't make as much money as other people." — Dustin "if there's a market for it, you know, we're going to make it work." — Dustin "Manufacturing United States is not easy." — Dustin "my advice has always been go to Pinterest, it's free." — Kaylee

Yehuda, known online as the Pew Pew Jew, joins hosts Kaylee and John on State of the Second to trace how he went from a spoiled LA kid who thought only police, military, and bad guys could own guns to one of the most recognizable voices for Jewish gun owners. He explains that he got into the industry by accident. After his parents had what he calls a Chernobyl meltdown over learning he owned a Glock 19, he set out to teach his own kids gun safety, went looking on Amazon for a children's book on the subject, and found none existed. So he wrote one. It took five years to get published because no one would touch it, and once it was out he was suddenly being called a gun safety expert on podcasts and radio. Much of the conversation centers on what it means to be a Jewish gun owner. Yehuda pushes back hard on rabbis who say Jews should not own guns, pointing to a 2,500-year warrior heritage and arguing the community has only been anti-gun since 1945. He says post October 7th there was a massive uptick in Jewish firearms owners, but that many stay quiet about it, and his mission is to get them to be loud instead. He also breaks down how draconian Israel's gun laws actually are compared to the US, and reflects on his own move from California to Texas, where a gunsmith removed his bullet button for free and welcomed him to the state. The back half turns lighter. In the From the Soapbox segment, Yehuda gives his spicy take that his favorite gun company is High Point, because they know exactly who they are and are willing to joke about themselves while the rest of the industry takes itself too seriously. He and John trade ideas for joke products, and both land on the same theme that runs through the episode: take someone to the range, pass the experience on to the next person, and have fun with it. Kaylee ties it back to building momentum for the Second Amendment, from fighting the NFA to changing hearts and minds one first-time shooter at a time. Questions this episode answers How did the Pew Pew Jew get into the firearms industry? He got into it by accident as a first-time Glock 19 owner. After his parents melted down over learning he owned a gun, he set out to teach his own kids gun safety, couldn't find a children's book on the subject, and wrote one himself, which led to podcasts and radio calling him a gun safety expert. Why did he write a children's book on gun safety, and how long did it take to publish? He wrote it because he went looking on Amazon for a children's book to teach his own kids gun safety and found that none existed. It took five years to get published because no one would touch it. What does he say to rabbis and others in the Jewish community who are anti-gun? He pushes back hard, pointing to a 2,500-year Jewish warrior heritage and arguing the community has only been anti-gun since 1945. His mission is to get Jewish gun owners who stay quiet to be loud about it instead. Did Jewish gun ownership change after October 7th? Yes. He says there was a massive uptick in Jewish firearms owners after October 7th, though many stay quiet about it, which is why he works to get them to speak up. How do Israel's gun laws compare to laws in the United States? He breaks down how draconian Israel's gun laws are compared to those in the United States, where firearm ownership is far more accessible. What was it like buying his first gun in California versus moving to Texas? He bought his first gun in California, then moved from California to Texas, where a gunsmith removed his bullet button for free and welcomed him to the state. Why does he name High Point as his favorite gun company? He names High Point because they know exactly who they are and are willing to joke about themselves, while the rest of the industry takes itself too seriously. What role does taking people to the range play in growing the Second Amendment community? He and the hosts agree that taking someone to the range and passing the experience to the next person is the best on-ramp, building momentum for the Second Amendment one first-time shooter at a time. Chapters 00:28 — Rapid fire: movies, grail gun, and gun culture 03:35 — How he fell into the gun industry by accident 04:47 — Writing a children's book on gun safety 06:30 — Being a Jewish gun owner and a warrior heritage 10:03 — October 7th and Israel's draconian gun laws 13:28 — Advice for closeted gun owners 16:00 — Why he bought his first gun in LA 20:58 — Why the LA riots and North Hollywood shootout didn't move his community 23:01 — Buying in California versus a free state in Texas 27:38 — Expanding into books like Bullet Points 30:36 — From the Soapbox: High Point is his favorite company 35:09 — Joke products and not taking yourself too seriously 38:38 — Passing the range experience on to the next person 46:13 — Wrap up, gift, and where to find him About the guest Yehuda, known online as the Pew Pew Jew, is a firearms author and Second Amendment advocate who has worked to amplify the voice of Jewish gun owners for almost nine years. He got into the industry by accident as a first-time Glock 19 owner, then wrote a children's book on gun safety that took five years to get published, going on to write several more children's books and a book titled Bullet Points. He grew up in North Hollywood, California, and now lives in Plano, Texas, where his home range is Mr. Guns. His books and merchandise are available at thepewpewjew.com. Key quotes "people with ars don't get in cattle cars" — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew) "there's a reason why they come after that right. Because when people don't exercise it, it's much easier to take away." — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew) "I'm just a dude who wrote a book for his kids." — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew) "gun companies need to stop taking themselves so seriously." — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew) "Taking someone to the range is always going to be the best on ramp to get them interested, involved and ready to take the next step." — Kaylee

John and Kaylee sit down with Zach, the owner of Tactical Advisor, to dig into a question every gun buyer has asked: can you trust a paid gun review? Zach explains why he built his channel around a 30-second breakdown that hands you the verdict up front, so you can leave or stay and hear the reasoning. He works by himself, films out of his closet, and treats research like a discipline. The conversation moves quickly into the realities of being a creator in this space: YouTube's shifting rules, demonetization over words like "thermal," a strike that locked him out for a week, and why he runs on every platform he can instead of betting on one. The heart of the episode is money and honesty. Zach and John agree creators should be paid, because a review can cost thousands in ammo, camera gear, and editing time, and YouTube revenue is pennies. The harder part is the gray area. Zach is blunt that when a check comes in every month, it gets harder to say negative things, so he refuses non-competes and has zero contracts that dictate what he can say. His rule is that brands pay for the work and the viewership, not the opinion. When a product is bad, he tells the company first and asks whether it's a one-off or a real issue, and he has declined to post a positive review on something that simply didn't work even when the company pushed for it. The group also makes a case for fun. Not every gun needs to be the deadliest, fastest option, and platforms like the GOAT 15 and cool novelty guns can pull new people in. Kaylee frames the through-line around the first-time owner who goes to YouTube to learn, and why censoring creators' language hurts that person most. Zach praises Rumble as a free-speech outlet while arguing against building a 2A-only echo chamber, and he recalls GOA's GOALS show as a relaxed, family-friendly event with real time to talk to companies. He closes on transparency and on inviting his own audience to keep him in check with constructive criticism. Questions this episode answers Should gun content creators get paid, and does payment compromise an honest review? Zach and John argue creators should be paid because a single review can cost thousands in ammo, camera gear, and editing time while YouTube revenue is pennies. Payment does not have to compromise honesty, but it creates a gray area that takes discipline to manage. How does a reviewer stay honest when a brand pays them every month? Zach is blunt that a recurring monthly check makes it harder to say negative things, so he sets a firm rule: brands pay for the work and the viewership, not the opinion. When a product is bad he tells the company first and asks whether it is a one-off or a real issue. Why does Zach refuse non-competes and contracts that dictate what he can say? Zach refuses non-competes and keeps zero contracts that require him to say specific things, so no brand can dictate his verdict. He has even declined to post a positive review on a product that simply did not work, despite the company pushing for it. What does YouTube censorship and demonetization do to firearms education for new gun owners? Demonetization over words like "thermal," strikes, and shifting rules push creators to self-censor, which Kaylee argues hurts the first-time owner most. That new owner goes to YouTube to learn, and watering down a creator's language makes honest firearms education harder to find. Is Rumble the answer for the gun community, or does it risk becoming an echo chamber? Zach praises Rumble as a free-speech outlet but warns against building a Second Amendment-only echo chamber, which he sees as bad for growing the community. His own approach is to publish across every platform he can rather than betting on one. How should a creator handle a product that performs badly? Zach tells the company privately first and asks whether the failure is a one-off or a real issue before saying anything publicly. He gives a brand grace to fix it, and rewards a company that takes the constructive criticism and actually evolves. Why does fun matter in the shooting community, and what role do guns like the GOAT 15 play? The group makes the case that not every gun needs to be the deadliest or fastest option. Fun and novelty platforms like the GOAT 15 pull new people into the hobby, which matters for the health of the community. What made Gun Owners of America's GOALS show stand out for a content creator and his family? Zach recalls the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) as a relaxed, family-friendly event with real time to talk to companies. It was the kind of show a creator could bring his family to rather than a packed industry grind. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and Zach's resume 00:21 — Rapid fire questions 03:11 — Why Tactical Advisor and the 30-second breakdown 05:57 — YouTube rules, strikes, and censorship 07:14 — Rumble and the echo-chamber question 14:05 — The most satisfying part of creating 15:42 — Health of the industry and innovation 17:04 — The GOAT 15 and guns that are just fun 22:29 — GOALS show and bringing family 25:44 — Building partnerships and transparency 28:53 — Influencer vs content creator 31:30 — Soapbox: should influencers get paid 36:46 — Constructive criticism and giving companies grace 43:09 — Reviews you can't post and keeping creators in check 49:34 — Closing words and GOALS 2026 About the guest Zach is the owner of Tactical Advisor, a firearms content channel he started seven or eight years ago. His full-time job is in law enforcement, fire, and EMS; the host's intro adds that he has over 11 years in law enforcement, is a SWAT team sniper, and a lieutenant with more than 12 years in firearm and EMS [VERIFY]. He works by himself and films out of his closet. He is a husband and father of three with a fourth on the way, and a born again Christian who shares the gospel at the end of his videos. He is known for a 30-second breakdown format that delivers the verdict early, and he publishes across Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, X, and Telegram. Key quotes "You're paying for the content to be created. You're paying for the viewers to see the content. You're not paying for my opinion." — Zach "I have zero contracts with any company that says you have to say specific things." — Zach "I don't think we should have an area that's an echo chamber. I don't think it's good for growth of this community if you have an echo chamber that's just 2A only." — Zach "Things can just be fun. You can have fun guns." — John "If the company then takes that constructive criticism and begins to evolve and change and make those changes, then we should reward that company." — Zach "I can't grow as an influencer and change without hearing that." — Zach

Rich Angstadt, president and founder of Angstadt Arms, joins State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee to trace how a personal want became a company built on innovation. Angstadt's grandfather got him into firearms young, and his family history runs back to the 1700s and 1800s, when the Angstadts were master gunsmiths crafting Kentucky long rifles and smooth bore muskets. Around 2011, after exiting a previous company, Rich had free time, was shooting IDPA and IPSC competitions, and wanted a 9mm AR built around a Glock pistol magazine while keeping all the AR15 controls. He took the design to SHOT Show in 2015, picked up big distributors and dealers, and helped shape what became the pistol caliber carbine market. The first gun was the UDP-9, a straight blowback AR9 on Glock magazines. The conversation moves through the company's product arc and what drives Angstadt to keep building. Selection by the US Army for its subcompact weapon trials forced a sub-15-inch length requirement that pushed development of a modified cycle system with Deadfoot Arms. Angstadt didn't win that contract (B&T did), but the work gave birth to the MDP, a roller delayed AR9 that runs on Glock magazines, weighs three and a half pounds, and shoots flat and low-recoil like an MP5. Rich explains why the company chases innovation over the industry's me-too habit, and how metal 3D printing (laser sintering titanium, not polymer) gives speed to market. A new design can be printed, heat treated, and test fired in under a week, which lets the team try ideas that a full manufacturing line would never justify. Testing remains the part that can't be rushed, and contracts often dictate the accuracy and reliability standards. The second half turns to suppressors and the NFA. Suppressor sales have surged on faster approval times, dropping from up to 12 months to as little as a day, and the $200 tax stamp goes to zero on January 1, 2026. Rich predicts deeper integration between firearm and suppressor, more integrally suppressed designs, and suppressors becoming a normalized product gun owners buy in multiples. He's bullish the NFA's days are numbered but less certain short barrel rifles will take off the way suppressors have, given how well pistol braces already serve that role. Kaylee details GOA's lawsuit to gut the NFA, explaining that the zero-dollar tax stamp creates the legal grounds to sue because the Supreme Court previously held the NFA could stand only because it was regulated under a tax. The group discusses normalizing gun culture, getting first-time owners into the fold, range rental programs, and starting new shooters on suppressed .22 so they never develop a flinch. Rich closes by pointing listeners to Angstadt Arms and asking them to support their local gun stores. Questions this episode answers How did Angstadt Arms get started, and what was the first gun the company built? Rich Angstadt founded Angstadt Arms around 2011 after exiting a previous company, wanting a 9mm AR built on a Glock pistol magazine while keeping the AR15 controls. He brought it to SHOT Show in 2015, and the first gun was the UDP-9, a straight blowback AR9 that runs on Glock magazines. What is the difference between Angstadt's straight blowback and roller delayed AR9s? The original UDP-9 is a straight blowback AR9 on Glock magazines. The MDP is a roller delayed AR9 that also runs on Glock magazines, weighs three and a half pounds, and shoots flat and low-recoil like an MP5. How does metal 3D printing change firearm prototyping and speed to market? Angstadt Arms uses metal 3D printing by laser sintering titanium, not polymer, so a new design can be printed, heat treated, and test fired in under a week. That speed lets the team try ideas a full manufacturing line would never justify, though physical testing still can't be rushed. Why was Angstadt selected for the US Army subcompact weapon trials, and what came out of it? The Army's subcompact weapon trials imposed a sub-15-inch length requirement that pushed Angstadt to develop a modified cycle system with Deadfoot Arms. Angstadt did not win the contract, but the work gave birth to the MDP roller delayed AR9. What is driving the surge in suppressor sales, and what changes on January 1, 2026? Suppressor sales have surged as approval times dropped from up to 12 months to as little as a day. On January 1, 2026, the $200 tax stamp goes to zero, which Rich expects to normalize suppressors as a product gun owners buy in multiples. Where does Rich see the next step in firearm innovation heading? Rich predicts deeper integration between firearm and suppressor, with more integrally suppressed designs and suppressors becoming a normalized purchase. He is bullish the NFA's days are numbered, though less sure short barrel rifles will catch on the way suppressors have, since pistol braces already fill that role. Why does the zero-dollar tax stamp give GOA legal grounds to sue over the NFA? Gun Owners of America (GOA) is suing to gut the National Firearms Act (NFA). The argument is that the Supreme Court previously held the NFA could stand only because it was regulated under a tax, so a zero-dollar tax stamp removes that basis and creates the grounds to sue. How can the industry normalize suppressors and bring first-time gun owners into the fold? The episode points to range rental programs and starting new shooters on a suppressed .22 so they never develop a flinch. The broader goal is normalizing gun culture and getting first-time owners comfortable in the sport. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and guest introduction 00:34 — Rapid fire questions 03:49 — Company backstory and family gunsmithing history 05:18 — Scratching his own itch: the 9mm AR idea 08:33 — From the UDP-9 to the Army trials and the MDP 11:00 — Why keep innovating instead of resting 13:16 — The next step: suppressors and 3D printing 15:00 — Rapid prototyping and metal laser sintering 17:46 — R&D timelines and testing standards 21:23 — The me-too billet AR15 they shelved 23:01 — What breeds the best innovation 25:33 — The NFA, the disappearing tax stamp, and suppressor culture 31:39 — Soapbox: should you wait until January 1 to buy 34:22 — Normalizing suppressors for first-time owners 40:03 — GOA's lawsuit to gut the NFA 46:27 — Closing thoughts and where to find Angstadt About the guest Rich Angstadt is the president and founder of Angstadt Arms, a firearms and suppressor manufacturer the hosts introduce as trusted in over 30 countries. In the episode he says his grandfather got him into firearms at a young age, and that his family, the Angstadts, were master gunsmiths in the 1700s and 1800s who crafted firearms such as Kentucky long rifles and smooth bore muskets. He started the company around 2011 after exiting a previous company, wanting a 9mm AR built around a Glock pistol magazine, and brought it to SHOT Show in 2015. Key quotes "I like to see new guns come out, even if they're a little quirky or weird because I like to see people push the envelope" — Rich Angstadt "It's almost hard not to keep innovating. At least that's, you know, from my standpoint, is we're always trying to elevate the shooting experience." — Rich Angstadt "oftentimes we're talking about under a week where we have a new idea for design and we can actually be on the range testing it" — Rich Angstadt "It didn't feel like an Angstadt product." — Rich Angstadt "I think the NFA days are numbered." — Rich Angstadt "the NFA tried to dictate gun culture and was successful in many ways for a long time" — Kaylee

Goat Guns build scale model guns you assemble and display, and on this episode of State of the Second, hosts Kaylee and John talk with Anthony from Goat Guns about how a video game idea turned into a fast-growing brand. Anthony explains the origin story: founder Brad Lunt started the company in 2017 after noticing that gamers pay real money for weapon skins in first-person shooters, and figured people would pay for tangible miniature guns too. The company started slow with a couple of basic models like the AR15, then took off when COVID hit and people stuck at home found them while scrolling Facebook. The first big break came from Sig Sauer, who asked Goat Guns to make a miniature MCX Rattler. Now the other big gun companies come to them. Anthony walks through how a model actually gets made. The team starts with the most popular, recognizable guns, gets 3D files from sources or manufacturers, then has engineers shrink the file and rework parts that become weak points at small scale. They 3D print and assemble handmade prototypes, test for weak points, send feedback, and only after the licensee approves do they move to packaging. The process takes about two years on average, sometimes three. He covers product decisions too: which parts ship pre-assembled so the models aren't intimidating to build, how the flashlight accessory went from a non-working prop to a real working light once the engineers solved it, and the limited edition runs numbered 1 to 600 that sell out in days and land on eBay for at least $200. The company is up to about 32 models with six or seven more in the works. The back half turns to community and culture. Anthony says Goat Guns was one of the most popular booths at GOA's GOALS convention, with Navy SEALs, kids, and women all geeking out, and that the GOA crowd had a noticeably friendlier, more engaged feel than other shows. The hosts and Anthony land on the bigger point: the models bridge a gap. They give people who are intimidated by guns a safe, non-firing way to learn the mechanics, they work as a family activity, and teachers have reached out calling them an educational tool. Kaylee ties it to GOA's mission of building an on-ramp from gun-curious to gun owner. Anthony also talks about Facebook ad pushback and how the brand keeps content family-friendly to keep ads running, credits the roughly 7,000-member Goat Guns Addicts fan group for the brand's social reach, and points listeners to goatguns.com plus retailers like Bass Pro and Cabela's. Questions this episode answers How did Goat Guns get started, and what was the original idea behind it? Founder Brad Lunt started Goat Guns in 2017 after noticing that gamers pay real money for weapon skins in first-person shooters and figured people would pay for tangible miniature guns too. The company began slowly with a few basic models like the AR15. What role did COVID play in Goat Guns' growth? The brand took off during COVID when people stuck at home found the models while scrolling Facebook, turning a slow start into fast growth. How did the partnership with Sig Sauer come about? Goat Guns' first big break came when Sig Sauer asked the company to make a miniature MCX Rattler. After that, other major gun companies began coming to Goat Guns directly. What is the full process for turning a real gun into a scale model, and how long does it take? The team starts with recognizable guns, gets 3D files, has engineers shrink and rework parts that become weak points at small scale, then 3D prints and tests handmade prototypes before the licensee approves and they package it. It takes about two years on average, sometimes three. How does Goat Guns decide which guns and accessories to make next? Goat Guns prioritizes the most popular, recognizable firearms, and decides which parts ship pre-assembled so the models aren't intimidating to build. Accessories evolve too, like the flashlight that went from a non-working prop to a real working light once the engineers solved it. How do Goat Guns help bridge the gap for people who are intimidated by firearms? The non-firing models give people a safe way to learn how guns work mechanically, function as a family activity, and have been embraced by teachers as an educational tool. Gun Owners of America ties this to its mission of building an on-ramp from gun-curious to gun owner. What was the reception like at the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) compared to other shows? Anthony says Goat Guns was one of the most popular booths at GOALS, with Navy SEALs, kids, and women all geeking out, and the Gun Owners of America (GOA) crowd felt noticeably friendlier and more engaged than other shows. How does Goat Guns handle ad pushback from social media platforms? Goat Guns keeps its content family-friendly to keep ads running despite Facebook ad pushback, and credits the roughly 7,000-member Goat Guns Addicts fan group for much of the brand's social reach. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Anthony from Goat Guns 00:34 — Rapid fire questions 02:56 — The Goat Guns origin story 03:58 — COVID growth and the Sig Sauer break 04:53 — Favorite collaborations 05:43 — Picking which guns become models 08:44 — Inside the two-year build process 10:16 — Deciding what ships pre-assembled 11:57 — Model count, limited editions, and a show-and-tell 14:54 — When development runs long 16:30 — The working flashlight accessory 17:55 — Dream collaborations 19:16 — The GOALS convention and the GOA community 25:03 — Marketing, ad pushback, and the fan base 29:40 — From the Soapbox: acceptance and education 36:20 — Where to find Goat Guns and goodbyes About the guest Anthony is from Goat Guns, the company that makes scale model guns you build and display. He is the person who gets the prototypes for new models and tests them. He found Goat Guns himself through a Facebook ad during COVID. He also collects other models, including model fighter jets. Goat Guns was started in 2017 by Brad Lunt. Key quotes "if people are paying for skins, which isn't tangible, you know, what they would probably pay for little miniature guns." — Anthony "we set the price of the goat guns but the fan base sets the value of them." — Anthony "It's the safest way to play with guns actually." — Anthony "there's nothing like seeing a grown man turn into a giddy little kid." — Anthony "it typically takes around two, sometimes three years." — Anthony "the mechanics of guns is pretty awesome." — Anthony

State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with Sean Patrick Terrio, a tech executive and digital privacy advocate who co-founded mark37.com. The conversation opens with rapid fire questions and turns into a full primer on why the phones, watches, cars, and smart-home devices we carry every day are, in Terrio's words, surveillance tracking devices. He frames the whole problem with a gun analogy gun owners will feel: you would never carry a firearm into a fight if it streamed your location, audio, and video straight to the enemy, yet that is exactly what an iPhone or Android phone does when the companies behind it fund causes opposed to the values of the people using them. Terrio spent his career in Silicon Valley and the data center industry, where he saw how the back end really works, and he walks the hosts through the core ideas: what privacy actually means (granting access only to people you choose), the Fourth Amendment, the addiction that devices are engineered to create, and how cars now report your driving data to manufacturers and insurers. His repeated point is that the question is not whether you can do something on your phone, but whether you should. He argues most people are not tech savvy the way they are gun savvy, and the fix starts with learning the basics rather than reaching for advanced tools like a VPN before understanding them. On the practical side, Terrio explains what mark37.com sells: de-Googled phones and laptops running GrapheneOS, an open-source operating system built on Android. The devices are carrier agnostic, run the apps people rely on through sandboxed Google Play Services, and let users keep their number by moving the SIM and telling Apple or Google to stop routing their calls and texts. He covers pricing (phones from around $400, laptops from the high $500s), the free 15 to 30 minute privacy consultations his team offers, and a roadmap on the site. Listeners get a 5 percent discount at mark37.com/goa, with a percentage of every sale going back to GOA. The episode closes with the reminder about GOALS 2026, GOA's 50th anniversary celebration in Des Moines, Iowa on August 1st and 2nd. Linksmark37.comQuestions this episode answers What does digital privacy actually mean, and why does the Fourth Amendment matter to it? Sean Patrick Terrio defines privacy as granting access to your data only to people you choose, and he ties it to Fourth Amendment protections. His core test is not whether you can do something on a device, but whether you should. Are our phones really listening to and recording us all day? Terrio argues that phones, watches, cars, and smart-home devices function as surveillance tracking devices that monitor users constantly. He spent his career in Silicon Valley and the data center industry, where he saw how the back end of this infrastructure actually works. Is a VPN a must-have privacy tool, or is it overhyped? Terrio cautions against reaching for advanced tools like a VPN before you understand the basics. He argues most people should start by learning fundamentals rather than jumping to tools they do not yet grasp. What is GrapheneOS, and how is it different from a standard iPhone or Android phone? GrapheneOS is an open-source operating system built on Android that runs on the de-Googled phones and laptops mark37.com sells. Unlike a standard iPhone or Android phone, these devices are carrier agnostic and run apps through sandboxed Google Play Services to keep data under the user's control. Can you still use everyday apps on a de-Googled device? Yes. The devices run the apps people rely on through sandboxed Google Play Services, so users can keep using the software they need while limiting how much data leaves the device. Will these privacy phones work on any carrier, and can you keep your existing number? The phones are carrier agnostic, so they work across carriers. You keep your existing number by moving the SIM and telling Apple or Google to stop routing your calls and texts. How much do mark37.com's phones and laptops cost? Phones start around $400 and laptops start in the high $500s. mark37.com also offers free 15 to 30 minute privacy consultations, and listeners get 5 percent off at mark37.com/goa, with a percentage of every sale going back to Gun Owners of America. Are steps like a Faraday bag or turning your phone off at night enough, or just a band-aid? Terrio treats these as partial measures rather than a full fix. His larger point is that real change comes from understanding how devices track you and taking back control of your data, not from one-off workarounds. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Sean Patrick Terrio 00:18 — Rapid fire questions 02:59 — Sponsor: Langdon Tactical 03:38 — Terrio's Silicon Valley and data center background 05:10 — The firearm-with-a-tracker analogy 08:11 — What privacy means and the surveillance state 11:22 — Devices are addictive by design 14:03 — Where the name Mark 37 comes from 15:44 — Cars as mobile surveillance devices 22:50 — What makes mark37's devices different: GrapheneOS 31:14 — Sponsor: Patriot Mobile 32:35 — Faraday bags and limits: band-aid or fix? 36:42 — Is the AI revolution a net benefit or negative? 41:32 — Practical questions: carriers, apps, what to replace first 48:17 — Pricing, the GOA discount, and free consultations 49:18 — Wrap-up and GOALS 2026 About the guest Sean Patrick Terrio is a tech executive, digital privacy advocate, and co-founder of mark37.com. He spent the vast majority of his career in Silicon Valley as an entrepreneur and worked across several software companies before moving into the data center industry, where he gained hands-on experience with how digital infrastructure operates on the back end. He wrote a book on that industry called the Data Center Colocation Industry Playbook. He left the industry after concluding it was opposed to his values and faith, and now builds de-Googled phones and laptops running GrapheneOS through mark37.com, which has hundreds of users. He is 45 and has three kids. He also does training and education on AI. Key quotes "Most people don't fully grasp that their devices are being listened to all day, every day." — Sean Patrick Terrio "It's a tool and a weapon because it's been weaponized against you." — Sean Patrick Terrio "We literally live in a surveillance state right now." — Sean Patrick Terrio "The question, as I've been hammering, is not can I use it? It's should I use it?" — Sean Patrick Terrio "So our cars are now mobile surveillance tracking devices." — Sean Patrick Terrio "You can still live in society, but now have control of your data because that's key." — Sean Patrick Terrio

Matt from Magic Prepper joins John and Kaylee to make the case that preparedness starts long before a firearm, and that one of the most valuable tools you can own costs about twenty dollars. Asked for the best prepping tool under $20, Matt names a water filter, pointing to the Sawyer Mini, which he says can filter up to 100,000 gallons and attaches to a smart water bottle, a bladder, or runs on its own. He explains why water sits near the top of the survival list, second only to air, and why having clean water for $20 or less is hard to beat. Matt shares the story behind the channel. After being held at gunpoint and beaten while living in California, he chose to take responsibility for his own defense rather than wait on institutions. He bought his first gun, a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 590, learned the hard way how restrictive California's laws were, and eventually earned a CCW in El Dorado County. A move to North Dakota gave him land, freedom, and the isolation that made being prepared matter even more. He walks through his five-step framework: identify your limitations, plan for the basics of food, water, communications, and first aid, then add self-defense, financial readiness, and finally reinforce and expand what you have. The conversation turns sharp in the Soapbox segment. Matt's hot take is that the firearms industry needs more transparency, especially honest conversations about why a budget product skips certain steps. That sets off a long exchange about new shooters: guns shipping with a single magazine, salespeople who push what's cool over what a buyer actually needs, and the missing on-ramp for first-time owners. John, drawing on his manufacturing and marketing background, and Kaylee, focused on accessibility and education, both argue the responsibility runs across manufacturers, gun stores, and ranges. Matt closes by introducing the Task Force 70 Foundation (tf70.org), a nonprofit working to ground law enforcement training in constitutional principle, and his new product, the MP field tool. Questions this episode answers What is the best prepping tool you can buy for under $20? Matt names a water filter as the best preparedness tool under $20, pointing to the Sawyer Mini. He says it can filter up to 100,000 gallons and attaches to a smart water bottle, a bladder, or runs on its own. Why does Matt rank water filtration so high on the preparedness list? Matt puts water near the top of the survival list, second only to air, because the body needs it more than almost anything else. Having clean water for $20 or less is hard to beat on value. What experience pushed Matt toward self-reliance and starting Magic Prepper? While living in California, Matt was held at gunpoint and beaten, which pushed him to take responsibility for his own defense instead of waiting on institutions. He bought his first gun and started the Magic Prepper channel in 2019 after moving to North Dakota. How restrictive was buying and carrying a firearm in California? Matt's first firearm was a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 590, and he learned the hard way how restrictive California's laws were. He eventually earned a concealed-carry permit in El Dorado County before moving to North Dakota for more land and freedom. What is Matt's five-step plan for becoming more prepared? Matt's framework is to identify your limitations, plan for the basics of food, water, communications, and first aid, then add self-defense, build financial readiness, and finally reinforce and expand what you already have. Why does Matt think the firearms industry needs more transparency? Matt's hot take is that the industry should have honest conversations about why a budget product skips certain steps, so buyers understand the tradeoffs. He ties it to better serving new shooters rather than overselling them. Why is shipping a gun with only one magazine a problem for new owners? Matt, John, and Kaylee argue that guns shipping with a single magazine, plus salespeople pushing what is cool over what a buyer needs, leaves first-time owners without a real on-ramp. They say the responsibility for education runs across manufacturers, gun stores, and ranges. What is the Task Force 70 Foundation and what is it trying to change about policing? The Task Force 70 Foundation (tf70.org) is a nonprofit Matt introduces that works to ground law enforcement training in constitutional principle. He shares it alongside his new product, the MP field tool. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Matt from Magic Prepper 00:31 — How Matt got from California to North Dakota 01:35 — Rapid fire: the best prepping tool under $20 05:53 — The attack that woke him up to self-reliance 09:37 — Buying a firearm under California's restrictions 15:22 — From enthusiast to a passion for the cause 17:54 — Why he started a YouTube channel 20:53 — Walking the line between guns and prepping 23:10 — EDC options when you can't carry a firearm 26:06 — The five-step plan to get prepared 33:19 — Soapbox: the case for industry transparency 36:14 — One magazine, education, and the new-owner on-ramp 54:44 — Task Force 70 Foundation and constitutional policing 58:31 — Where to find Matt and wrap-up About the guest Matt is the creator behind Magic Prepper, a preparedness and firearms YouTube channel he started in 2019 after moving from California to North Dakota. He launched the channel after being held at gunpoint and beaten in California, an experience he says woke him up to the need for self-reliance. His first firearm was a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 590, and he obtained a CCW in El Dorado County, California. He grew up in Florida dealing with hurricane season and was involved in Boy Scouts of America, and he previously worked in the hospitality industry. Before the channel, he co-founded an everyday carry company, Everyday Carry Specialties (EDC Specialties), with business partner Rob Defeo in Gold River, California. He recently got involved with the Task Force 70 Foundation, a police training nonprofit, and launched his first product, the MP field tool. He teaches hundreds of thousands of people online. Key quotes "we need water more than just about anything else besides air" — Matt (Magic Prepper) "if firearms legislation doesn't affect you directly, it's easy to kind of ignore it" — Matt (Magic Prepper) "if you do need a firearm, you really, really need a firearm" — Matt (Magic Prepper) "Waiting for it's not really beneficial because things can happen at any moment" — Matt (Magic Prepper) "we also have to remember we all start somewhere and we have to have a plan for that education" — Kaylee "the person behind the counter is still a salesperson and they want the sale" — John

John and Kaylee sit down with Tim, the founder of 2A Bourbon, for a conversation about how a retirement plan turned into a Second Amendment bourbon brand built to give money away. Tim is a lawyer and lifelong serial entrepreneur who has owned a nightclub, a bottled water company, and a digital label company he ran for 16 years. He says he will turn 75 next month, and he explains that the idea came from a single moment on a golf course over Memorial Day weekend of 2022. He sliced a ball on the 18th hole and it landed on the name of his son-in-law's twin brother, a fallen North Carolina soldier killed in Iraq, written in chalk down the fairway as part of a Folds of Honor tribute. From there he decided to build a charity, heard on a podcast that a charity needs a following, and landed on guns and bourbon. Tim walks through the build. He locked the name, the .com, and the trademark in about 15 minutes, then got his label approved by the government in three days when most people told him a Second Amendment label would never get cleared. He took three people to Kentucky to taste bourbons because he wanted real Kentucky bourbon rather than going to the well-known Indiana distillery, and he found a bottler known as the Bourbon Rabbi. The brand pairs gun-company toppers with each run, capped at 20,000 cases to stay collectible, and the current edition carries Smith & Wesson, who licensed their name and logo for free because they did not want to be in the revenue stream. Tim says he has not taken a penny from the company and has raised over a quarter of a million dollars in two years for groups including Folds of Honor, Stop Soldier Suicide, and a ruck walk in Clearwater, Florida. His reasons run personal: a brother who died by suicide at 18 and a son-in-law's family touched by war. The back half moves into advocacy. Tim, a lawyer, argues that Congress is for sale and that enough money could push gun rights out of reach, which is why he supports GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation, the groups he says are in court keeping the rights. The hosts and Tim trade thoughts on D.C. v. Heller, grassroots versus elite funding of gun groups, and Senator Tim Kaine's claim that rights come from government. Tim's soapbox is a plea to get along across the aisle, framed by his mother's line that the Second Amendment is like a bird that needs a right wing and a left wing to fly. The episode closes on voting with your dollar, the GOA 50th anniversary in Iowa, and a half-serious plan to do a GOA barrel pick. Questions this episode answers What is 2A Bourbon and why did Tim start it? 2A Bourbon is a Second Amendment bourbon brand built to give its proceeds away to veteran and gun-rights causes. Tim, a lawyer and serial entrepreneur, started it to turn a retirement plan into a charity, choosing guns and bourbon as the following a charity needs. How did a moment on a golf course lead to the founding of 2A Bourbon? Over Memorial Day weekend of 2022, Tim sliced a ball on the 18th hole and it landed on the name of his son-in-law's twin brother, a fallen North Carolina soldier killed in Iraq, written in chalk as part of a Folds of Honor tribute. That moment pushed him to build the brand. How did Tim get a Second Amendment bourbon label approved by the government? Tim locked the name, the .com, and the trademark in about 15 minutes, then got the label cleared by the government in three days, even though he was told a Second Amendment label would never get approved. His prior experience with high-end liquor labels gave him an edge. Why does the bottle carry the Smith & Wesson name and logo, and what did it cost? Each run pairs a gun-company topper with the bourbon, and the current edition carries Smith & Wesson. Smith & Wesson licensed its name and logo for free because it did not want to be in the revenue stream, only to help the cause. How much money has 2A Bourbon raised, and which charities does it support? In about two years, 2A Bourbon has raised over a quarter of a million dollars, and Tim says he has not taken a penny for himself. The money supports Folds of Honor, Stop Soldier Suicide, and a ruck walk in Clearwater, Florida. Why does Tim, a lawyer, believe gun rights are at risk and why does he support Gun Owners of America? Tim argues that Congress is for sale and that enough money could push gun rights out of reach. He supports Gun Owners of America (GOA) and the Second Amendment Foundation because those are the groups he says are in court keeping the rights. What is Tim's argument for keeping the Second Amendment a nonpartisan issue? Tim makes a plea to get along across the aisle, framed by his mother's line that the Second Amendment is like a bird that needs both a right wing and a left wing to fly. He ties this to voting with your dollar and a cultural shift on gun rights. Why did Tim choose real Kentucky bourbon and who bottles 2A Bourbon? Tim took three people to Kentucky to taste bourbons because he wanted real Kentucky bourbon rather than the well-known Indiana distillery. He found a bottler known as the Bourbon Rabbi, and runs are capped at 20,000 cases to stay collectible. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tim from 2A Bourbon 00:20 — Rapid fire: age, proof, and tasting notes 03:39 — The golf course moment that started it all 05:49 — Naming it, trademarking it, and label approval 06:44 — Choosing real Kentucky bourbon and a bottler 07:37 — The charities: Folds of Honor and Stop Soldier Suicide 09:26 — Gun-company toppers and the Smith & Wesson deal 11:45 — Why Kentucky over the big Indiana distiller 16:13 — Where to buy it and shipping to 44 states 18:35 — Why the Second Amendment drives the business 24:53 — Rights, Heller, and grassroots vs elite funding 35:39 — Soapbox: get along, left wing and right wing 43:40 — Voting with your dollar and the cultural shift 53:50 — GOA 50th in Iowa, a barrel pick, and where to find 2A Bourbon About the guest Tim is the founder of 2A Bourbon, a Second Amendment bourbon brand that donates its proceeds to veteran and gun-rights causes. He is a lawyer and a self-described serial entrepreneur who has owned a nightclub, a bottled water company, and a digital label company he ran for 16 years, which gave him experience with high-end liquor labels. He says he will turn 75 the month after recording and is based in North Carolina. He started the company after a moment on a golf course over Memorial Day weekend of 2022, where his ball landed on the name of his son-in-law's twin brother, a fallen North Carolina soldier killed in Iraq. The brand is nearly two years old and has raised over a quarter of a million dollars for causes including Folds of Honor and Stop Soldier Suicide. The cause is personal for Tim, who says his brother died by suicide at 18. Key quotes "And guess where my ball ended. On top of my son in law's twin brother's name." — Tim "I've not taken a penny from 2a. I'm giving it all back." — Tim "Smith and Wesson says we don't want to be in the revenue stream. We want to help you to help the Second Amendment." — Tim "The Second Amendment is like a bird. It takes a right wing and a left wing to fly." — Tim "The only thing that politicians fear is losing power." — Kaylee "The very next amendment is the freedom to protect that speech and protect everything in between." — John

Gun Owners of America hosts Kailey and John sit down with Nathan Mitchell, owner of Mitchell Defense, for a deep look at what actually makes an AR reliable. Nathan comes from a military background as a Recon corpsman and an oil field background, where he ran a pipe inspection business and learned how corrosive, high friction environments get engineered around with coating technology, spring technology, and manufacturing processes that reduce friction. He brings that same whole-body, problem-first thinking to rifles. His point is direct: a lot of the firearm industry solves problems it invented, while ignoring the real pain points inside the upper receiver, the bolt carrier group, and the springs. The technical core of the episode is friction, springs, and ejection patterns. Nathan explains why a direct impingement system gums up, how a carbon cutter and sand cutter mechanically clear dirt and debris, and why thermal fitting the barrel keeps accuracy stable as the barrel heats up. He breaks down the difference between round wire and flat wire springs: round wire only lasts about 8,000 cycles before it loses its springiness and is weakest exactly when it strips rounds from the magazine, while Mitchell Defense's flat wire buffer system runs far longer, gives more even forward pressure, and cuts felt recoil. He argues mil-spec should not be the baseline, walks through what mil-spec actually means on bolts and accuracy, and shares an independent endurance test that ran 17,554 rounds without cleaning or lube before the first failure, plus a carbon cutter sent to a machine gun range in Vegas that passed over 20,000 rounds in Colt M4s. The back half turns to policy and people. Kailey and John lay out where the NFA stands after the tax dropped to zero, what that could mean for SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, and AOWs, and why machine guns stay regulated under the 1986 Hughes Amendment. Nathan describes the real business pain of a slow industry waiting on January. The conversation closes on two things every gun owner can act on now: support local brick and mortar dealers, who should be subject matter experts who match the right gun to the right person instead of pushing incentive products, and go train with a quality trainer, because training exposes the small details, like a failed gun or a forgotten sight, that no theory prepares you for. Questions this episode answers What actually makes one AR more reliable than another? Reliability comes from reducing friction inside the upper receiver, bolt carrier group, and springs, using coatings, better spring technology, and manufacturing that solves the rifle's real pain points. Nathan Mitchell argues much of the industry instead solves problems it invented while ignoring those failure points. Should mil-spec be treated as the baseline standard for a rifle? Nathan Mitchell says mil-spec should not be the baseline. He walks through what mil-spec actually means for bolts and accuracy and treats it as a floor a serious build should exceed, not a target to hit. Why do round wire springs cause reliability problems, and how do flat wire springs fix them? Round wire springs last only about 8,000 cycles before losing their springiness, and they are weakest exactly when stripping rounds from the magazine. Mitchell Defense's flat wire buffer system runs far longer, delivers more even forward pressure, and cuts felt recoil. How many rounds can a well-built AR run without cleaning or lube before it fails? In Mitchell Defense's independent endurance test, a rifle ran 17,554 rounds without cleaning or lube before the first failure. Separately, a carbon cutter sent to a machine gun range in Vegas passed over 20,000 rounds in Colt M4s. Why does thermal fitting a barrel matter for accuracy? Thermal fitting the barrel keeps accuracy stable as the barrel heats up during sustained fire. It is one of the friction- and tolerance-control methods Nathan Mitchell uses to keep a rifle consistent under real use. What happens to the NFA now that the tax stamp has dropped to zero, and will machine guns be affected? With the National Firearms Act (NFA) tax dropped to zero, hosts Kailey and John discuss what that could mean for SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, and AOWs. Machine guns stay regulated under the 1986 Hughes Amendment and are not opened up by the change. How should a gun store match the right firearm to a new or first-time buyer? Local brick and mortar dealers should act as subject matter experts who match the right gun to the right person, rather than pushing incentive products. Supporting those dealers is something the episode frames as tied to protecting the Second Amendment, or 2A. Why is training with a quality trainer so important, even for experienced shooters? Nathan Mitchell calls training the most important thing in the industry because it exposes small details theory never prepares you for, like a failed gun or a forgotten sight. Training builds the fundamentals that actually keep a shooter reliable under pressure. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Nathan Mitchell 01:18 — Rapid fire questions 06:25 — Nathan's military and oil field background 08:33 — Solving real problems inside the rifle 10:53 — Is mil-spec the bare minimum? 14:24 — What makes a Mitchell Defense rifle stand out 16:46 — Springs, friction, and felt recoil 17:41 — The 17,554 round endurance test 19:13 — Building a system: gas ports and ejection patterns 21:48 — From the soapbox: a slow industry 25:59 — The NFA tax to zero and what it means 34:55 — Support your local brick and mortar 44:44 — Why training is the most important thing 52:35 — Where to find Mitchell Defense and goodbye About the guest Nathan Mitchell is the owner of Mitchell Defense. He says he comes from a military background, having served as a Recon corpsman, and an oil field background, where he ran a pipe inspection business and earned his master's degree. After selling that company he moved to Philadelphia and got into the firearm space, starting with custom rifles before building Mitchell Defense around three pillars: accuracy, reliability, and durability. His target market is law enforcement and military end users. He also does a lot of work with Riker USA. Key quotes "We don't solve problems that we create." — Nathan Mitchell "I don't think that mil spec should be the baseline." — Nathan Mitchell "our last independent endurance Test, we ran 17,554 rounds without cleaning or lube before we had the first failure." — Nathan Mitchell "Training is the most important thing I think in this industry." — Nathan Mitchell "support your local brick and mortar, because without them, we lose a huge part of the Second Amendment." — John "Because the fundamentals are the most important thing." — Nathan Mitchell

State of the Second welcomes back Adam from Canik USA, the company's VP of Business Development and Marketing, for his second appearance on the show. Hosts John and Kaylee open with a round of rapid-fire questions before moving into where handgun design is heading. Adam walks through the arc from bulky high-capacity pistols to the micro compact wave that Springfield Armory and Sig's 365 helped start, and then to the more practical, fuller guns the market wants now. He uses the Canik Prime and the MC9 sitting on the table as examples, pointing to features like a compensator, optics-ready slides, night sights, co-witnessing, and an included G-Code holster as proof that companies are now putting real value straight in the box instead of leaving it to the aftermarket. A big thread is Canik's investment in U.S. manufacturing. Adam explains that the Prime is built in a 162,000 square foot West Palm Beach facility with more than 100 employees, a step the company took partly because importation of firearms could be restricted by an executive order. He describes the Turkish and American workers as one team and frames domestic production as protection for the company's mission. The conversation then turns to the GOA Canik MC9 collaboration, the company's California launch, and the 187 billboards Canik put up across the state. The city of Oakland forced the billboards down under a permit rule that singled out guns, and Adam recounts how Gun Owners of California and GOA stepped in to fight it. The episode also becomes a tribute to Sam, the GOA figure who recently passed away, with Adam and the hosts reflecting on his character and his approachable style of debate. They also talk about Rob Young, who took over at Gun Owners of California. From the soapbox segment, Adam delivers a pointed take on the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's assassination, the danger of clips taken out of context, and the responsibility to do your own research and have real conversations. The hosts and Adam also dig into tariffs and thin firearm margins, the future of surplus and Century Arms imports including the AP5 line, and close with a lighthearted run through everyone's dream guns. Questions this episode answers Where is handgun design heading after the micro compact wave? After the micro compact wave that Springfield Armory and Sig's 365 helped start, Adam sees the market moving toward more practical, fuller-size guns. He argues the consumer, not the manufacturer, should now drive what features a pistol carries. Why is Canik building the Prime in the United States instead of importing it? Canik USA built the Prime in a 162,000 square foot West Palm Beach facility partly because firearm importation could be restricted by an executive order. Adam frames domestic production as protection for the company's mission and a strong U.S. presence. What features come standard on the Canik Prime and MC9? Adam points to a compensator, optics-ready slides, night sights, co-witnessing, and an included G-Code holster. His argument is that Canik puts real value straight in the box rather than leaving it to the aftermarket. What happened with Canik's billboard campaign in Oakland, California? Canik put up 187 billboards across California for its launch, but the city of Oakland forced them down under a permit rule that singled out guns. Gun Owners of California and Gun Owners of America stepped in to fight it. How did the GOA Canik MC9 collaboration come together? The episode covers the Gun Owners of America (GOA) Canik MC9 collaboration alongside Canik's California launch and the fight over the Oakland billboards. Adam discusses how GOA and Gun Owners of California backed the effort. How are tariffs affecting firearm pricing and company margins? Adam talks through tariffs and the already thin margins on firearms, explaining the pressure they put on pricing. The discussion ties this to the broader economics of importing and building guns. Is military surplus from Century Arms drying up? Adam discusses the future of surplus and Century Arms imports, including the AP5 line. Canik paired with Century Arms in 2012, giving him a direct view into where surplus is headed. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome back, Adam from Canik 01:16 — Rapid fire questions 06:58 — Adam's role and Canik's growth 07:55 — The Prime and the micro compact shift 13:54 — Putting value in the box 16:11 — Bringing manufacturing to the USA 20:17 — The GOA Canik MC9 collaboration 22:54 — California launch and the Oakland billboards 25:50 — Remembering Sam and meeting Rob Young 34:23 — Soapbox: out of context and doing your research 47:52 — Speech, intent, and where the line is 59:48 — Tariffs and thin firearm margins 1:03:16 — Surplus, Century Arms, and the AP5 line 1:05:24 — Dream guns and the Liberator About the guest Adam is the Vice President of Business Development and Marketing for Canik USA, based in West Palm Beach, Florida. He says Canik is originally out of Turkey, paired with Century Arms in 2012, and has grown into one of the largest striker-fire pistol companies in the United States. He describes Canik's 162,000 square foot West Palm Beach facility, which has over 100 employees building the Canik Prime. This was his second appearance on the podcast, having previously been on episode two. Last name spelling unconfirmed [VERIFY]. Key quotes "Now it should be the consumer telling the gun manufacturer what they want. And that's in every business. That's not just guns." — Adam (Canik USA) "we knew we needed to have a strong presence in the United States in order to be able to continue with what our mission and our goal is." — Adam (Canik USA) "if you allow that to make you angry, you lose sight of what's important." — Adam (Canik USA) "Do your research. Do your research on everything on both sides of the agenda." — Adam (Canik USA) "while we're all competitors, we're in this together." — Adam (Canik USA) "we can't let comments like that go unanswered. We have to insist on the Education being correct." — Kaylee (host)

Isaac Botkin of T. Rex Arms joins Gun Owners of America hosts Kaylee and John to talk about why a holster company spends so much of its time on Second Amendment advocacy. The company is owned by four brothers plus a brother-in-law and operates out of Centerville, Tennessee, about an hour west of Nashville. Eleven years in, T. Rex Arms sells holsters as its flagship product but has grown into nylon goods, plate carriers, chest rigs, weapon lights, magazines, red dots, optics, thermal and night vision, and medical gear. Isaac describes the business as a curated full-service operation rather than the Amazon of the tactical space, and he frames the brand name as a joke: they specialize in small arms. Much of the conversation centers on mission over sales. Isaac explains that T. Rex spent the last few weeks pushing to legalize suppressors even though the company does not sell them, and he describes a holster as a starting point that helps move people from buying a gun and putting it in a closet to actually carrying and accepting the responsibilities that come with it. He calls T. Rex a second amendment and sixth commandment company, ties carrying to the duty to stop a murderer, and lays out their goal of building a broad, decentralized citizen defense industry rather than becoming a single giant source. He encourages new advocates to meet people where they are: you do not need 10,000 hours of range time to teach the four rules of gun safety and take someone to the range. The back half gets into politics and innovation. Isaac names Thomas Massie as his ideal pro-gun candidate, an engineer who understands automation and economics, and points to Senator Bill Haggerty's focus on manufacturing and reindustrializing the country. His biggest pet peeve with politicians is cowardice on issues voters actually want them to touch, like the 90-year-old short-barreled weapon ban. He argues that artificial limits, from the NFA tax stamp to rules blocking domestic rare earth magnets and lithium battery production, stifle the innovation firearms have historically driven, citing Eli Whitney and interchangeable parts. He warns that the idea that government can declare a shape of matter illegal poisons the freedom to think and build well beyond firearms. He closes by pointing listeners to the T. Rex Arms YouTube channel and their podcast, T Rex Talk. Questions this episode answers What is T. Rex Arms and what does the company actually sell? T. Rex Arms is a family-owned tactical company in Centerville, Tennessee, owned by four brothers plus a brother-in-law and eleven years in business. Holsters are its flagship, but it has grown into plate carriers, chest rigs, weapon lights, magazines, optics, thermal and night vision, and medical gear. Why does a holster company spend so much time on Second Amendment advocacy? Isaac Botkin frames advocacy as the mission behind the products, putting cause over sales. He sees a holster as a starting point that moves people from buying a gun and leaving it in a closet to actually carrying it and accepting the responsibilities that come with it. What does Isaac Botkin mean by calling T. Rex a second amendment and sixth commandment company? Botkin ties the right to carry to a moral duty to stop a murderer, pairing Second Amendment freedom with the sixth commandment against killing. For T. Rex, carrying a firearm is about accepting the responsibility to protect innocent life, not just exercising a right. How can someone new to firearms become an advocate without years of training? Botkin says you do not need 10,000 hours of range time to make a difference. Meet people where they are: you can teach the four rules of gun safety and take someone to the range, helping grow a broad, decentralized citizen defense industry rather than relying on a few experts. Why did T. Rex push to legalize suppressors when they do not sell them? T. Rex spent recent weeks pushing to legalize suppressors despite not selling them, because the company puts the mission ahead of its own sales. The goal is a broad citizen defense industry where many companies advance gun rights, not a single giant source. What does Isaac see as the biggest artificial limits holding back firearms innovation? Botkin points to limits like the National Firearms Act tax stamp, the roughly 90-year-old short-barreled weapon ban, and rules blocking domestic rare earth magnet and lithium battery production, arguing they stifle the innovation firearms have historically driven. Who does Isaac Botkin name as his ideal pro-gun candidate, and why? Botkin names Thomas Massie as his ideal pro-gun candidate, an engineer who understands automation and economics. He also points to Senator Bill Haggerty's focus on manufacturing and reindustrializing the country. Why is the company named T. Rex Arms? The name is a joke. With its short arms, the T. rex specializes in small arms, which is exactly what the company makes. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Isaac Botkin 00:45 — Rapid Fire questions 03:00 — What T. Rex Arms is and what it sells 04:49 — Working in a family-owned business 06:26 — Why T. Rex advocates on state-level gun policy 11:09 — From gun owner to concealed carrier 13:57 — Advice for new firearms advocates 15:45 — The ideal pro-gun candidate and Thomas Massie 18:09 — Suppressors and putting mission first 20:04 — Building a broad citizen defense industry 21:55 — Why holsters and what makes the design different 24:39 — The story behind the T. Rex Arms name 25:31 — Soapbox: cowardice and artificial limits on innovation 31:23 — History, ideas have consequences, and closing About the guest Isaac Botkin is from T. Rex Arms, a holster and tactical gear company based in Centerville, Tennessee, about an hour west of Nashville. The company is owned by four brothers plus a brother-in-law and is 11 years in business. His father was a video producer in the 80s and 90s and taught the brothers both video production and political and firearm activism, and Isaac worked on Gun Owners of America videos his dad made when he was about 10 or 11 years old. His youngest brother Noah runs their web development company, and he references brothers David and Lucas in the episode. Isaac is slated to appear on a firearms innovation and technology panel at GOALS. Key quotes "My brother David has a saying like a holster is like a business card for freedom." — Isaac Botkin "Our goal is to build a citizen defense industry that is broad. And our goal is to see a number of companies kind of do what we're doing." — Isaac Botkin "We take our products very seriously. We take our customers very seriously. We don't take ourselves that seriously." — Isaac Botkin "If you don't have 10,000 hours of range time, don't worry about that." — Isaac Botkin "We spent a lot of time over the last few weeks talking about suppressors, getting people to legalize suppressors. We still don't sell suppressors." — Isaac Botkin "It's like a lot of voters want you to touch it. Sir, please do not be afraid of something we don't even know what you're afraid of." — Isaac Botkin "Small arms are our specialty." — Isaac Botkin

Special Operations Wounded Warriors (SOWW) started the way a lot of good things do: a few guys around a campfire with a problem to solve. Joel Pellici, one of the charity's five founders, tells hosts Kaylee and John how a feral hog problem at a hunting club near Fort Bragg turned into a wild pig hunt for wounded special operators, then grew into a charity that has touched lives in the hundreds. The core idea has stayed simple from day one. Get like-minded guys who carry similar traumas out into nature, and trust that if you sit around a campfire long enough, you can fix just about anything. Over the years SOWW built out three main programs. The original immersion in nature through hunting, fishing, sporting clays, and golf came first. After losing the man Joel calls their early poster child to suicide, the founders realized they needed to do more, so they started a canine program in his honor and added the Operator Reset, a week-long treatment for individuals dealing with PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. Joel shares the stories that stick with him, including a wounded warrior who outran everyone on a prosthetic leg and never complained, and a man on roughly 17 medications who slept without them after just three hours in the program. He also walks through how a service dog gave one veteran his purpose and protection back, opening doors as ordinary as taking his kids to Disney World. The conversation turns to policy in the back half. Joel makes a direct argument that the government should be taking responsibility for the people it sends to war, and that nonprofits like his shouldn't have to exist to care for those who sacrificed so much. He explains the real costs behind a single service animal, between 25 and 50 thousand dollars depending on training, and how SOWW keeps 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose because the board takes no money by its own bylaws. He closes with the three best ways to help: donate any amount, help find people who need the program, and volunteer. The episode wraps with a gift for Joel from AAC Ammo and Palmetto State Armory. Questions this episode answers What does SOWW stand for and who does the charity serve? SOWW stands for Special Operations Wounded Warriors. The charity focuses primarily on special operations personnel from all branches of US service, immersing veterans who carry similar traumas in nature and treatment programs. How did Special Operations Wounded Warriors get started? It began when a feral hog problem at a hunting club near Fort Bragg turned into a wild pig hunt for wounded special operators. That hunt grew into a charity, founded by five men around the simple idea that like-minded guys around a campfire can fix just about anything. What are SOWW's three main programs? SOWW runs immersion in nature through hunting, fishing, sporting clays, and golf; a canine service-dog program; and the Operator Reset, a week-long treatment for PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. How much does it cost to provide a veteran with a service dog? Founder Joel Pellici says a single service animal costs between 25 and 50 thousand dollars, depending on the level of training the dog receives. What percentage of donations goes directly to SOWW's mission? SOWW keeps 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose. Its board is unpaid and the bylaws prohibit founders from taking any money. Why does SOWW argue the government should do more for wounded warriors? Joel Pellici argues the government should take responsibility for the people it sends to war, and that nonprofits like SOWW shouldn't have to exist to care for those who sacrificed so much. How can someone get help from SOWW or nominate a veteran? Veterans can self-nominate for the program, and supporters can help by finding people who need it. Joel notes that someone may be worse off than you, but that doesn't mean you don't need help too. What are the best ways to support SOWW? Joel Pellici names three: donate any amount, help find veterans who need the program, and volunteer your time. Because the board takes no pay, the bulk of every contribution reaches the mission. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Joel from SOWW 00:13 — Rapid Fire questions 01:01 — What SOWW is and who it serves 01:29 — The three programs: nature, canine, Operator Reset 03:34 — How veterans get help and self-nominate 04:04 — The campfire origin story and the first pig hunt 05:17 — How many lives the program has touched 05:56 — The stories Joel hangs his hat on 08:42 — The real cost of a service animal 10:40 — The policy side: federal gaps for wounded warriors 12:22 — What the government should fix 13:45 — Impact on the whole family unit 16:15 — Advice and the best ways to help 18:07 — Where to find SOWW and a gift from AAC and PSA About the guest Joel Pellici is one of the five founders of Special Operations Wounded Warriors (SOWW), a charity that focuses primarily on special operations personnel from all branches of US service. The organization runs three main programs: immersion in nature through hunting and fishing, a canine service-dog program, and a week-long Operator Reset treatment for individuals struggling with PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. SOWW's board is unpaid and its bylaws prohibit founders from taking money, with 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose. The charity has helped people in the hundreds since its founding. Key quotes "if you sit around a campfire long enough, you can fix just about anything" — Joel Pellici "You would think that it wouldn't be necessary for nonprofits to be there to take care of people that sacrifice so greatly for a country." — Joel Pellici "I watched him buckle to the ground in tears and thanks when he was introduced to a service dog." — Joel Pellici "we typically average 91 to 95% of our contributions go directly to the purpose they're supposed to" — Joel Pellici "somebody might be worse than you, but it doesn't mean you don't need help too" — Joel Pellici

Clay from Bullet Vault joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to walk through the idea behind his company: an alternative currency and payment system built on bullets, recorded on the blockchain. Clay's argument is that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. In his words it is a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold. Through Bullet Vault, a customer buys a real physical bullet, takes title to it, and the company stores it in secure warehouses that already carry the FFL and SOT requirements from its gun businesses. The owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity. Clay says the model solves the liquidity problem that has always limited ammo as a store of value. The conversation traces why Clay built it. He and his partners own Lone Wolf and Primary Weapon Systems, and roughly a week after closing on Lone Wolf they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. That experience, which he ties to Operation Choke Point, convinced him the payments chokehold is the real threat to the industry. He built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that made the squeeze possible, and he built it compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering. Around the product talk, Clay and the hosts dig into policy and culture. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp, and he is frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA while Republicans hold the White House and both chambers. Kaylee details GOA's two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus the push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. They also discuss Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID, GOA's 2A Defenders college program and its Chambered for Success career segment, and the shared problem of being blocked on social platforms. Clay tells his own story, from Stanford swimmer to Navy service to tech to running for governor of Georgia, and ends by pointing listeners to bulletvault.com. Questions this episode answers What is Bullet Vault and how does buying a bullet through it actually work? Bullet Vault is an alternative currency and payment system built on real physical bullets and recorded on the blockchain. A customer buys an actual bullet and takes title to it, the company stores it in secure FFL- and SOT-licensed warehouses, and the owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity. Why does Clay argue that a 9mm bullet meets the economic definition of money? Clay argues that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. He frames it as a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold. Why did Clay build Bullet Vault on the blockchain instead of relying on transaction processors? Clay built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that make the payments squeeze on the firearms industry possible. He sees that processor chokehold, not the guns themselves, as the real threat. What happened with Lone Wolf's credit card processing, and how does it connect to Operation Choke Point? About a week after Clay and his partners closed on Lone Wolf, they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. Clay ties that experience directly to Operation Choke Point and the broader payments chokehold on the industry. How did Clay build Bullet Vault to stay compliant with know your customer laws and avoid being shut down? Clay built Bullet Vault to be compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction, specifically so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering. What is Gun Owners of America doing through 2A Defenders and Chambered for Success to bring younger people into the movement? Gun Owners of America (GOA) runs a 2A Defenders college program and a Chambered for Success career segment, both aimed at bringing younger people into the Second Amendment movement. The hosts tie this to Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID and to the idea that culture is upstream of politics. What is GOA pushing for on suppressors and the NFA, and what is Clay's view on the tax stamp? GOA organized two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus a push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp and frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA. Who is Clay of Bullet Vault and what is his background? Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault and an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in a faith and firearms household in Georgia, swam at Stanford, served in the Navy, spent most of his career in technology, and ran for governor of Georgia. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and meet Clay from Bullet Vault 00:17 — Rapid fire: calibers Clay is watching 01:23 — His EDC and favorite calibers 04:49 — Q3/Q4 outlook: suppressors and the tax stamp 09:14 — Building an on-ramp and culture upstream of politics 11:46 — GOA's industry and influencer letters 16:41 — 2020, Gen Z, and a libertarian generation 21:34 — 2A Defenders and Chambered for Success 27:54 — Reagan's diary and Trump parallels 31:35 — Clay's story: Stanford, Navy, tech, governor run 41:52 — Losing credit card processing and Operation Choke Point 44:30 — The bullet token idea and bullets as money 50:40 — Legality, KYC compliance, and the social media block 54:45 — Where to find Bullet Vault and sign-off About the guest Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault. He is also an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in Georgia in a faith and firearms household, went to college at Stanford, where he swam, and served in the Navy. He worked in technology for most of his career, ran for governor of Georgia, and runs his own consulting business. He is 52 and married with two children. His brother-in-law built the Bergara rifle brand. Key quotes "I want a small carry weapon. I feel like I can shoot well." — Clay "If we get 200 goes down to zero, it's a massive win for our movement." — Clay "the great law of the universe, as so many people have said, is culture is upstream of politics." — Kaylee "in the same way people buy gold, bullets are a precious metal as well." — Clay "they're not just buying a crypto, they're actually buying a physical bullet that they own. They take title." — Clay "we built this thing from the very first transaction from the ground up to be compliant with the know your customer laws." — Clay "I understand the ammo market and the commodity price and how it undulates better than I do most equity stocks." — Clay

Tre'Von Barber joins State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John to make the case that firearms training is an investment in your life, not an optional extra. Barber walks through his own path: born and raised in Rock Hill, South Carolina, he grew up wrestling and in Boy Scouts, wrestled through college at USC Upstate, and got into guns at 21. After a back injury ended his wrestling, he went straight into competition, found a competition coach on YouTube, and started teaching concealed weapon permit and basic handgun classes about two years into gun ownership before moving up to higher-level marksmanship for competitors and law enforcement. The conversation centers on new gun owners and how to start right. Barber explains where to find local competitions (practiscore.com), how a squad will walk a first-timer through the rules, and why reliability matters more than chasing the cheapest option. His line for cheap-gun shoppers is blunt: how cheap is your life? He pushes education over impulse buys, says there is no such thing as a girl gun, only a gun that fits your hand, and stresses that South Carolina's constitutional carry removes the permit requirement but not the responsibility to know the laws and operate safely. Kaylee ties this to GOA's view of personal responsibility, framing training, ammo, the optic, and the holster as an investment in your own value and safety. Barber covers self-defense insurance through Right to Bear, where he now manages social media, influencers, affiliates, and content. He explains it covers both civil and criminal defense, includes a member portal and attorney access within 24 to 48 hours, and costs about $17 a month. He shares his three most-skipped drills (the five by five, the bill drill, and strong-hand/weak-hand shooting), recommends trainers and facilities like AR Tactics in Charlotte and Buck Doyle in Utah, and lays out his gear gripes as an instructor: no SERPA holsters, no cloth holsters, and always bring a belt. The episode closes on the firearms community itself, the people who lend a battery or a belt when something breaks, and Barber plugging his own business, Barber Training Solutions. Questions this episode answers Where should someone interested in competition shooting actually start, and how do they find local matches? Tre'Von Barber points new shooters to practiscore.com to find local competitions. At a first match, the squad walks the newcomer through the rules, so you can show up and learn the format on the spot. How much should a first-time buyer spend on a reliable handgun, and is a cheap gun worth the savings? Barber says reliability matters more than chasing the cheapest option, and challenges cheap-gun shoppers with the question of how cheap your life is. He frames the gun, ammo, optic, and holster as an investment in your own safety rather than a place to cut corners. What is the biggest mistake new firearm owners make when buying their first gun? Barber says new owners make impulse buys instead of educating themselves first. He stresses that there is no such thing as a girl gun, only a gun that fits your hand and recoils in a way you can control. Does constitutional carry mean you no longer need any training or education? No. Barber explains that South Carolina's constitutional carry removes the permit requirement but not the responsibility to know the laws and operate safely. It is your right to defend yourself, but you still need to educate yourself. What does Right to Bear's self-defense insurance cover, and how much does it cost? Right to Bear's self-defense coverage handles both civil and criminal defense, includes a member portal and attorney access within 24 to 48 hours, and costs about $17 a month. Barber now manages social media, influencers, affiliates, and content for the company. What are the top three drills most people leave out of their training? Barber's three most-skipped drills are the five by five, the bill drill, and strong-hand/weak-hand shooting. He points to these as the work people tend to avoid but shouldn't. Which trainers and facilities does Tre'Von Barber recommend for situational and long-range training? Barber recommends AR Tactics in Charlotte and Buck Doyle in Utah. He runs his own instruction through Barber Training Solutions, based out of Rock Hill, South Carolina. What gear do instructors not want to see in a class, and why? As an instructor, Barber's gear gripes are no SERPA holsters, no cloth holsters, and always bring a belt. These are the details that get in the way of running a safe, smooth class. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire 01:54 — Tre'Von's background and path into guns 05:18 — Getting started in competition shooting 07:21 — Two-gun matches and PRS goals 08:33 — Writing PSA's training curriculums 09:38 — From first firearm to first class 10:53 — Budget, reliability, and the value of your life 14:00 — Biggest mistakes new buyers make 15:39 — Personal responsibility and knowing the laws 18:35 — Why self-defense insurance matters 22:56 — From the Soapbox: top three drills 29:19 — Recommended trainers and facilities 33:46 — Instructor gripes: holsters, guns, and belts 37:39 — The community and wrap-up About the guest Tre'Von Barber was born and raised in Rock Hill, South Carolina, and grew up wrestling and in Boy Scouts. He wrestled through college at the University of South Carolina Upstate. He got into guns at 21 and moved into competition shooting after a back injury ended his wrestling. About two years into gun ownership he began teaching concealed weapon permit and basic handgun classes, and about two years after that he started teaching higher-level marksmanship to competitors and law enforcement. After meeting Frank Cannon, a president and one of the owners of Right to Bear, he came on to run the training program at Palmetto State Armory (Right to Bear's sister company), writing new curriculums and hiring staff, then moved into a full-time Right to Bear role managing social media, influencers, affiliates, and content. He owns and runs Barber Training Solutions, based out of Rock Hill, South Carolina. He has a five-year-old child. Key quotes "There's no such thing as a girl gun. There's a gun that fits your hand, there's a gun that recoils in a way that you can control it." — Tre'Von Barber "how cheap is your life? Is your life 300 bucks or is your life 500 bucks?" — Tre'Von Barber "when you're investing into your carry gun, you are investing into your value as a person as well and protecting that value." — Kaylee "It's your right to defend yourself. However, you need to educate yourself." — Tre'Von Barber "someone who takes personal responsibility not only in the use of their firearms, but in the defense of their right to own them." — Kaylee

Joe from Desk Pop joins hosts Kaylee and John on Gun Owners of America's State of the Second to talk about how he built a firearms YouTube channel, why he sees gun content shifting from grim duty to genuine fun, and the phone call from the ATF that nearly ended both his channel and his freedom. Joe describes growing up on creators like FPS Russia, working as a gunsmith building custom rifles, and noticing a hole in the space once everything online turned into serious military-vet content. He wanted firearms to feel approachable again, and he wasn't the only one. He frames the cultural change as a younger generation rejecting the idea that you need a service record or a bolt-action rifle to belong, and instead building a welcoming community around training, competition, and the right to own what you want. The heart of the episode is the ATF story. Joe sold two handguns in two months, both at a loss, to help fund his videos. An ATF agent he believes was named Michael called the gun shop where Joe worked, took his personal information, and told Joe he was operating as an FFL without a license by way of making firearms content online. When Joe explained he lost money on the sales, the agent said he didn't believe him, then called back an hour later threatening to send a car to pick him up unless Joe filed for an FFL. Joe and his team got their FFL SOT, an eight-month ordeal that required a member who owned a home, just to keep receiving guns for reviews. The hosts call it an attack on two constitutional rights at once, the Second Amendment and the First. Joe also lays out life in a restrictive state. Washington's rules push him to public land to shoot, Rainier Arms has moved most of its operations to Kansas, Aero Precision nearly left before the governor offered tax exemptions to keep it, and some manufacturers refuse to ship even to a licensed dealer. He points to groups like Discovery Daddies and ASI matches as on-ramps for new shooters, urges companies to fund local range events, and argues the real long game is teaching the next generation before they reach voting age. His closing message: if you live in a free state, don't take it for granted, and vote. Questions this episode answers How did Joe get started making firearms content, and what gap was he trying to fill? Joe came up watching creators like FPS Russia and worked as a gunsmith building custom rifles. He started Desk Pop because online gun content had turned almost entirely into serious military-vet material, and he wanted firearms to feel approachable and fun again. Why has gun culture shifted from a serious, duty-first tone to a more fun and welcoming one? Joe credits a younger generation that rejects the idea you need a service record or a bolt-action rifle to belong. They are building a community around training, competition, and the right to own what you want, which makes guns feel approachable again. What exactly happened when the ATF called Joe about his YouTube channel? An ATF agent Joe believes was named Michael called his gun shop, took his personal information, and claimed he was operating as an FFL without a license by making firearms content. When Joe said he lost money on his two gun sales, the agent didn't believe him and later threatened to send a car unless Joe filed for an FFL. Why did Joe and his team go through the eight-month process of getting an FFL SOT? After the ATF pressured Joe to license, he and his team pursued an FFL SOT so they could keep legally receiving firearms for reviews. The eight-month process required a team member who owned a home to qualify. Why do some firearms companies refuse to ship to Washington even when the buyer holds a valid FFL? Joe describes Washington as a restrictive state where some manufacturers won't ship even to a licensed dealer. The climate has pushed Rainier Arms to move most operations to Kansas and nearly drove Aero Precision out before the governor offered tax exemptions to keep it. What can people in restrictive or banned states do to stay in the fight? Joe urges companies to fund local range events and stresses teaching the next generation before they reach voting age. His closing message is that if you live in a free state, don't take it for granted, and vote. How can someone find range days and competition events to get plugged into the firearms community? Joe points to groups like Discovery Daddies and ASI matches as on-ramps for new shooters. He also calls on companies to fund local range events so more people have a place to start. Chapters 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions 03:03 — Who is Joe and the origin of Desk Pop 04:51 — Why gun content stopped being fun, then got fun again 06:19 — The cultural shift in gun shops and the younger generation 09:01 — Crossing over to the political side 12:25 — Constitutional carry and a more welcoming community 14:31 — Staying in the fight from a restrictive state 17:17 — Washington restrictions and companies that won't ship 19:51 — Finding range days, Discovery Daddies and ASI matches 22:57 — Aero Precision, Rainier Arms and companies leaving the state 26:26 — From the Soapbox: the ATF came after the YouTube channel 29:25 — On a list, the registry, and First Amendment concerns 34:45 — Zero tolerance policy and holding the ATF accountable 37:55 — Why small creators are most at risk 39:08 — Closing words, socials, and a call to vote About the guest Joe is one of three faces of the firearms YouTube channel Desk Pop. He has been into firearms his whole life and came up through media, marketing, video, and photo work, citing FPS Russia as an early influence. He worked as a gunsmith at a gun shop building custom rifles. He started a media company at age 20 that did just over half a million dollars in revenue its first year before his business partner pushed him out. He lives in Washington and was filming in Texas at the time of recording. He and his team hold an FFL SOT, obtained last year. The channel had 80,000 subscribers at the time of the ATF call. [VERIFY current channel size] Key quotes "I mean, guns are fun at the end of the day, like, I don't care how serious you are about your content, you really enjoy firearms." — Joe "he called me and he said that I was operating an FFL without a license because I was selling firearms for revenue. And I said, no, I'm not selling firearms for revenue. I actually lost money on both of those sales." — Joe "If you make gun content online and you are seen with a bunch of firearms, you're on a list." — Joe "You fought an eight month battle to get your FFL so that you can continue to fuel the community." — Kaylee "don't take your freedom for granted. For sure, if you live in a free state, lock it down while you can." — Joe