Talking Tokens

On this edition of Strata Research, Jacquelyn sits down with our Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to dig into the OUSD announcement that resulted in Circle's stock dropping and had the crypto world convinced a new stablecoin competitor had arrived.After looking into the details, Alex argues this is just Stripe's stablecoin wrapped in a consortium for competitive cover, then he walks through why the 140 company list is largely a marketing move before getting into which of the two paths to success for OUSD he actually thinks will play out. TIMESTAMPS:00:00 Introduction to OUSD and Its Impact02:46 The Role of Stripe in OUSD05:33 The Consortium of 140 Companies08:00 Market Dynamics and Competition10:15 Investor Reactions and Market Implications13:20 Paths to Success for OUSDYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with CZ, founder and former CEO of Binance, on the exchange's ninth anniversary to talk about what he got right, what he missed, and why he thinks AI handling payments in crypto is coming within months, not years. CZ breaks down why he once thought stablecoins were a temporary patch job, how he sees blockchain technology as one of three foundational technologies alongside the internet and AI, and why crypto wealth penetration is still well under 1%. TIMESTAMPS:00:00 AI, Crypto, and the Future of Payments00:33 Building Binance in 2017 and Moving Faster03:44 How Binance Reached the Top05:48 Building a Community-Driven Platform08:27 Creating Products People Return To10:31 Crypto as Foundational Technology11:33 Where AI and Crypto Intersect14:26 Using AI as a Productivity Tool18:37 The Next Opportunities in Crypto21:21 Building at the Intersection of Skills and Value21:53 The Future of Traditional and On-Chain FinanceYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Roger Bayston, Head of Digital Assets at Franklin Templeton, to discuss his 35-year journey at the firm and how tokenization became the focal point to his career there today.Roger breaks down how he sees blockchain less as a new financial system and more as a long overdue infrastructure replacement, why BENJI’s ability to transfer and accrue interest in real time is a bigger deal than it sounds, and why investors should stop sleeping on a specific asset class with $25 to $30 trillion in activity. TIMESTAMPS:00:00 Introduction to Tokenization and Franklin Templeton03:02 Roger Bayston's Journey in Finance05:45 The Vision for Tokenization in Asset Management09:11 State of Tokenization Today11:46 The Evolution of BENJI and Its Impact15:01 Future Outlook for Tokenization17:57 The Integration of Traditional Finance and Blockchain21:05 The Future of Investment Products21:59 Resurrecting SPVs and Trust in Finance25:07 Building Trust in Digital Assets28:21 Institutional Interest in Blockchain30:46 Investing in Networks and Blockchain Opportunities33:45 Tokenization and New Asset Classes39:31 The Future of Banking and TokenizationYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Theo Golden, Head of Digital Assets at Baillie Gifford, to talk about BAGEY — the firm's newly launched tokenized bond fund on Solana and Ethereum that yields around 7% and settles in USDC. Theo breaks down why he sees tokenization as an operating system upgrade rather than a reinvention of finance, how pension funds and private banks are already showing real interest in its new tokenized fund, and why he thinks AI democratizing insight and tokenization democratizing access are two themes that will collide into something nobody has fully figured out yet.DISCLAIMER: Although our guest this week works at Baillie Gifford, nothing in this podcast should be considered an offer of its investment advisory services or should otherwise be confused for investment, tax, legal or other financial advice.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com TIMESTAMPS:00:00 His Journey to Digital Assets03:33 From Journalism to Investment Theses06:05 Learning from Successes and Failures10:15 The Role of Independence in Baillie Gifford’s Innovation15:19 Gradual Growth in Tokenization20:57 Tokenization as an Operating System Upgrade23:57 Convincing Clients of Tokenization's Value24:50 Operational Leverage and Risk Management27:12 The Origin of Baillie Gifford’s BAGEY Tokenized Fund32:18 Initial Response and Market Interest34:43 Choosing Solana and Ethereum for the Fund Launch38:33 Solana and The Future of Internet Capital Markets43:09 Trust and Adoption Among Institutional Investors46:07 The Role of Traditional Institutions in Tokenization47:59 AI and Tokenization: A Future IntersectionYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Zaheer Ebtikar, Chief Strategy Officer at Plasma, to talk about why the recent wave of DeFi exploits is forcing a necessary reset and Plasma’s decision behind building a stablecoin-optimized chain around USDT. Zaheer also dives into the recent OpenUSD launch and how it can fit into an institutional stablecoin infrastructure world,, and why he thinks the biggest unlock still ahead is making it invisible enough that billions of people just use it without knowing it's there.TIMESTAMPS:0:36 - Thoughts on DeFi Exploits & Reconsolidation 3:59 - Plasma's Stablecoin Strategy 5:48 - Investor Pushback & Conviction 9:07 - Lessons Since Launch 12:46 - USDT & OpenUSD 17:29 - The Stablecoin Landscape 21:31 - What Makes a Durable Team 24:55 - DeFi's Future 30:49 - Advice for Founders 40:57 - Plasma's Big Bets & Token Strategy 45:53 - Long-Term Vision for DeFiYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On this edition of Strata Research, Jacquelyn sits down with institutional research analyst Alex Beaudry to dig into crypto cards, which many assumed were built for consumers but are actually seeing most traction from institutions. Alex breaks down why the developed market consumer card is basically a feature in search of a need, what Visa is building that could change the equation, and why onchain credit could be the piece of this stack that makes or breaks the whole argument. Check out the associated Strata Research report for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/the-real-story-behind-crypto-cardsTIMESTAMPS:01:21 - What a crypto card actually is and how it works under the hood 03:04 - Why the developed market consumer card hasn't taken off — and may never07:22 - Where the real value actually is: B2B and institutional usage 08:39 - The acquisition wave and why infrastructure is the real prize11:46 - Onchain credit: what works and what's still broken 14:01 - What to watch over the next 6–24 monthsYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Asheesh Birla, CEO of Evernorth, the Ripple-backed digital asset treasury firm holding roughly 473 million XRP tokens, to talk about why he thinks we've finally hit the inflection point that blockchain has been building toward for over a decade. Asheesh breaks down why most digital assets sit idle the same way cash sits in a bank account, how Evernorth is building a real-time agentic risk engine to change that, and why he believes the winners in this space will be the ones who develop the three pillars of tech, commercialization and liquidity.TIMESTAMPS:02:00 - The best use case for blockchains04:16 - The pace of blockchain adoption vs expectations08:15 - How Evernorth is creating liquidity for XRP and digital assets10:00 - Industry misconceptions: tech vs adoption focus11:33 - The Evernorth report findings for RLUSD and XRP 14:11 - The significance of stablecoins for institutional markets21:01 - The importance of asset optimization and real-time capital management25:28 - How stablecoins strengthen crypto ecosystems rather than compete30:33 - Idle capital as an overlooked signal and how to put assets to work33:00 - Building trust and institutional confidence in blockchain37:46 - The maturation of DeFi vaults and institutional-grade protocols40:11 - Preparing Evernorth for listing and success metrics46:42 - Long-term vision and advice for blockchain enthusiastsYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, we're sharing Jacquelyn’s Proof of Talk chat with Stani Kulechov, founder and CEO of Aave Labs, to break down why Aave V4 moved away from a single monolithic protocol toward a hub and spoke model that works more like a central bank. Stani gets into why a lot of centralized lenders didn't hold up through both the FTX collapse and last October's market unwind.Then Stani explains why he thinks the next real growth phase for DeFi comes from financing things like AI infrastructure, tokenized equity, and credit for businesses that have never had access to capital this efficient before.TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to Aave and Stani Kulechov03:09 Evolution from Aave V3 to Aave V406:03 Risk Management in DeFi08:45 Building Network Resilience11:58 Aave V4 and Corporate Treasury Management14:48 Tokenized Assets and Aave Horizon18:11 Institutional Interest in Tokenization20:52 Mainstream Adoption of DeFi24:02 Future Vision for AaveYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with MoneyGram CEO Anthony Soohoo to talk about MGUSD, the company's new dollar-backed stablecoin built on Stellar with help from Bridge, Fireblocks, and M0.Anthony explores why launching MoneyGram decided to have its own stablecoin and breaks down how its 60 million active customers and nearly 500,000 retail locations across 200 countries play a role in it. Jacquelyn and Anthony also discuss why the real winners in this space might be the ones who make stablecoins disappear into the background entirely and how the asset can have a dual role in finance.TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to MGUSD and MoneyGram's Vision03:04 The Complexity of Cross-Border Payments06:31 Leveraging Existing Infrastructure for Adoption10:15 The Role of Cash in a Digital Future12:35 Stablecoins as a Preferred Payment Method14:09 Self-Custody and User Education18:22 The Future of Stablecoins and Consumer Adoption21:33 Navigating Regional Differences in Adoption24:07 Stablecoins vs. Traditional Banking25:52 Choosing the Right Partners for MGUSD28:40 The Dual Role of Stablecoins in Finance31:21 Lessons from the Crypto Industry34:51 Advice for Success in the Financial SpaceYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn sits down with Kean Gilbert, Head of Institutional Relations at the Lido Ecosystem Foundation, to talk about how liquid staking is finally breaking into traditional finance. From the WisdomTree staked ETH ETP in Europe to VanEck's recently filed S-1 for a Lido staked ETF in the US, Kean breaks down why institutions are asking sharper questions than ever before, how depth of liquidity is the single biggest driver behind Lido winning institutional mandates, and why he sees there's no good reason to hold unstaked ETH when you can get the same exposure with 3%.TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to Lido03:00 Growth of Ethereum Staking and Institutional Interest05:59 Understanding DAO Structures and Institutional Education09:05 Tokenization and Its Impact on the Industry11:58 The Role of Custodians in Institutional Crypto14:58 Risk Management in Staking and Smart Contracts17:56 The Role of Staking in Current Markets19:04 Integration of Staking with Traditional Finance20:04 Regional Perspectives on Staking Adoption21:55 Timeline for Global Adoption of Staking22:22 Market Outlook and Building in Bear Cycles24:43 ETF Interest and Market Dynamics25:54 The Importance of Retail in Staking27:17 Unlocking the Next Wave of Adoption28:56 Impact of Tokenization on Business Operations30:41 The Evolution of Institutional Conversations33:40 Long-Term Thinking in CryptoYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Gordon Liao, Chief Economist and Head of Research at Circle, to talk about why traditional financial plumbing is still the biggest bottleneck in money movement globally. We discuss Arc, Circle's new institutional blockchain, which is being built from the ground up to handle everything from agentic nano payments to quantum-resistant encryption. Gordon believes that Arc being quantum-ready from day one isn't just a nice-to-have but a decision that could define whether the network and its users survives the next decade of security threats. Gordon also breaks down the three things he thinks the market is underestimating right now and how 99.5% of x402 payment protocol volume is already running through Circle’s USDC.TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to Gordon and His Background02:45 The Future of Onchain Finance05:56 USDC and Its Market Position08:54 Agentic Commerce and AI Integration11:57 The Launch of Arc and Its Vision15:00 Challenges in Blockchain Adoption17:55 Privacy and Security in Blockchain20:57 Quantum Computing and Its Implications24:10 Market Perspectives and Economic Insights30:02 Final Thoughts and AdviceYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Dakota Campbell, Head of Marketing at Collector Crypt, the platform that generated $165 million in volume in April alone by putting trading cards and physical collectibles onchain with Solana. Dakota explains the resurgence of physical collecting is what's actually pulling people toward digital ownership, and why Solana's low fees were the thing that finally made tokenizing a five-dollar card make sense after years of the idea being cost-prohibitive on Ethereum.He also dives into how he thinks about marketing to everyday collectors vs crypto audiences, what it took to scale the business over the past few years and expansion beyond trading card games.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com TIMESTAMPS00:00 The Evolution of Collectibles02:55 Digital Collectibles and Nostalgia06:12 Collector Crypt's Success and Market Dynamics09:02 The Role of Solana in Collector Crypt12:02 User Experience: Crypto Native vs. Mainstream Collectors15:14 Marketplace Dynamics and Price Discoverability17:45 Attracting Non-Crypto Collectors21:01 Marketing Strategies for Diverse Audiences25:21 Understanding Audience Engagement28:41 Navigating Marketing in the Crypto Space33:34 Expanding Beyond Trading Card Games37:18 Rapid Fire Insights on CollectiblesYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

On this episode of Strata Research, presented by Talking Tokens & Token Relations, Jacquelyn sits down with Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to dig into crypto neobanks. Apps are rebuilding what Chime and Revolut did a decade ago, but on stablecoin rails and Alex explains how founders can set themselves up for success. Alex’s insights cover why the float and yield model is both the most lucrative and the hardest to sustain through a bear market, and where the real opportunity sits for anyone watching this space over the next 12 to 24 months.Check out the associated newsletter for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/the-neobank-playbook TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to Crypto Neobanks02:59 Revenue Models and Market Dynamics06:02 Challenges and Risks in Crypto Neobanking08:04 Future Trends and ConsiderationsYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Morgan Krupetsky, VP of Onchain Finance at Ava Labs, to break down where institutional adoption of blockchain actually stands right now. They discuss why Morgan thinks the industry has officially crossed the chasm from experimental pilots to in-production deployments. Morgan deep dives into the embedded finance stack she's seeing resonate across global markets, why private credit and asset-backed finance are better suited for blockchain rails than equities, and why the deals being announced today were quietly in the works 12 to 18 months ago.TIMESTAMPS00:00 The Shift in Institutional Crypto Adoption10:08 Understanding Institutional Strategies20:22 Tokenization and Its Impact on Financial Markets30:07 Stablecoins: The Gateway to onchain Finance40:54 Future Innovations in onchain FinanceYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn sits down with Brett Redfearn, President of Securitize and former SEC Director of Trading and Markets, to trace how tokenization has evolved from floor-based trading rooms to onchain capital markets. Brett explains why he thinks we're entering the most transformative market structure shift in 20 years, why tokenized stocks might be the next major frontier, what the SEC's expected innovation exemption could unlock, and why there are conversations happening right now with bulge bracket banks about bringing tokenized IPOs to onchain investors within the next year or two.TIMESTAMPS00:00 Understanding Tokenization02:44 The Evolution of Capital Markets05:09 Regulatory Landscape and Innovation09:11 Institutional Adoption of Tokenization13:22 Brett's Transition to Leadership at Securitize16:15 Growth Opportunities for Securitize20:12 Advice for Traditional Firms Entering Digital Assets21:56 The Importance of Networking in Crypto Events24:26 The Shift of Tokenization from Disruption to Integration27:09 Bridging Traditional Finance and Blockchain30:07 Understanding the Landscape of Tokenization32:33 The Future of Tokenized Assets39:42 Regulatory Perspectives on Tokenization42:47 Envisioning the Future of TokenizationYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guest may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Torab Torabi, CEO of Move Industries, to discuss Movement’s strategic reorientation toward becoming a stablecoin settlement and yield layer for emerging markets. Torab shares what he learned from sitting down with the Ethiopian president and Ministry of Finance, why governments in these markets don’t want an unchecked flight to dollars, and why he thinks most teams chasing emerging markets with tokenized stocks or T-bill yields are headed straight for a brick wall.Torab also discusses the Movement Network Foundation repurchasing approximately 19% of MOVE tokens previously allocated to investors and what it means for the tokenholders going forward.TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction to Move Industries and Torab Torabi02:07 Evolution of Move Industries and Market Dynamics05:07 Why the Foundation Bought Tokens Back08:12 Focus on Emerging Markets and Government Engagement12:12 Security Concerns in DeFi and User Fund Protection15:19 Differentiating Markets: Developed vs. Emerging19:04 Stablecoins and Gold in Emerging Markets23:09 Sharia Compliance and Financial Products for Emerging Markets24:30 Tokenization and Emerging Markets26:24 Understanding Compliance in Financial Products28:34 The Role of Government in Financial Scalability31:48 Challenges in Currency Exchange and Adoption34:09 Key Metrics for Success in Emerging Markets36:10 Institutional Adoption vs. Emerging Market Focus40:58 Strategic Reorientation and Future PlansYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Bart Smith and Laine Litman, CEO and COO of AVAT, the Avalanche Treasury Company, two traditional finance veterans who both spent years watching institutions talk about crypto before finally deciding to go all in themselves. Bart and Laine get into what makes AVAT different from the pile of treasury companies trying to copy the MicroStrategy model, and why their bet is on giving investors exposure to the whole Avalanche ecosystem rather than just stacking the token. Institutional conversations almost always start as investment discussions and quickly turn into implementation discussions, but the Clarity Act might be the unlock most people aren't paying close enough attention to. TIMESTAMPS 02:49 From ETFs to Crypto05:48 Laine's Path from Voice Trading to Blockchain09:00 Why AVAT Is Not Another MicroStrategy13:40 The Private Market Problem14:57 What Institutional Conversations Look Like Right Now28:43 The Role of Debt Structure in a Bear Market35:39 AI, Agentic Payments, and What to Watch in 2026You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On our first episode of Strata Research presented by Talking Tokens & Token Relations, Jacquelyn sits down with Institutional Research Analyst Alex Beaudry to breakdown agentic payments. Alex walks through why it isn't one market but three distinct payment flows, each with completely different infrastructure requirements, and why the machine-to-machine category is where stablecoins have a real structural edge over traditional rails. They also get into the four things that actually need to happen before this market scales, and why the narrative is still running well ahead of the transaction volumes to back it up.Check out the associated newsletter for more details: https://www.token-relations.com/p/agentic-payments-where-we-are-and-where-we-re-going TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction Strata Research01:24 Understanding Agentic Payments04:54 The Flows of Agentic Payments07:24 Challenges and Frameworks for Scaling11:39 Recent Developments and Future OutlookYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content. 

On today's Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn sits down with Lorenzo Romagnoli, co-founder of USDT0, a stablecoin protocol that has moved over $90 billion in USDT across 25+ blockchains since launching in January 2025. Lorenzo makes the case that stablecoins were not just built for Americans or Europeans but for people in emerging markets across Africa, Latin America, and Asia who needed a way out of crushing inflation, and explains why that's the core reason Tether's dominance is so hard to compete with. They also get into what it will actually take for AI agents to transact onchain at scale, and why Lorenzo believes the teams still building with true decentralization in mind are the ones worth watching.TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction to USDT Zero and Its Founders02:31 The Evolution of USDT and Decentralized Finance05:36 Understanding the Mechanics of USDT Zero08:33 User Behavior and Volume Trends11:34 Tether's Role in the Global Financial Ecosystem15:38 Targeting Emerging Markets with Stablecoins18:45 The Competitive Landscape of Stablecoins21:12 The Future of Stablecoins24:05 Global Adoption and Use Cases27:32 The Rise of USDT and Market Dynamics30:11 Innovation and Staying Ahead34:23 The Role of Decentralization in Finance39:45 Advice for Future InnovatorsYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TalkingTokens Follow us on X Jacquelyn:   / jacqmelinek   Talking Tokens:   / _talkingtokens   Follow us on Instagram   / _talkingtokens  Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Erik Reppel, head of engineering at Coinbase Developer Platform and creator of x402., They discuss why the internet struggled without a native payment protocol and why AI agents finally made the problem urgent enough to solve. Erik explains how x402 lets computers send money as easily as they send data, and why Visa, Mastercard, and others are all founding members of its x402 Foundation.He walks through why the 402 HTTP status code was reserved for "payment required" but left empty for decades, how publishers can now charge AI agents with micropayments instead of losing traffic to scraping, and why agents with wallets are fundamentally more useful than agents without them. The conversation covers why stablecoins are uniquely suited for low-dollar transactions, how Coinbase uses AI internally to make every engineer 3x more productive, and why the best infrastructure eventually becomes invisible. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:25) Why AI becoming an economic actor made the internet's missing payment layer urgent(03:21) What x402 actually is(05:14) How x402 works like HTTP but for money and with any client, server, or payment(06:26) What Erik wants people to build with x402: new business models beyond ads and subscriptions(08:31) Who is already using x402: CoinGecko, Messari, a16z, and agent native publishers(09:56) Why the 402 status code sat empty for decades(11:15) Where x402 stands today: 15+ chains, stablecoins first, credit cards next(12:50) Why Visa and Mastercard joined the x402 Foundation(15:41) Biggest use cases right now(17:16) Are AI agents good traders? Why wallets for payments matter more than wallets for trading(19:17) What needs to happen for AI agents to participate more meaningfully onchain(21:44) Do AI agents understand value? Economic reasoning and budget awareness(23:22) Long-term vision for x402(26:40) Final advice: play positive sum games with positive peopleESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Jason Barraza, head of institutional business development at RedStone, about why blockchain oracles are evolving from simple price feeds into the institutional intelligence layer that tokenized finance still needs. Jason, who previously served as COO at Security Token Market where he helped track over 800 tokenized real world assets, explains how RedStone powers NAV feeds for BlackRock, Apollo, and Franklin Templeton, and why the firm's acquisition of Credora for onchain risk ratings is part of building a full-stack intelligence platform.He walks through why RWAs as DeFi collateral is the next big unlock and why the buy-build-or-lease question is splitting institutions into fundamentally different infrastructure strategies. The conversation covers why private credit is gaining so much attention, how Securitize’s Computershare partnership lowers barriers for corporates wanting to tokenize, and why standardization around compliance and portable identity is the key to scaling institutional adoption. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:36) What feels materially different from the last cycle(02:08) What RedStone does: oracles, risk ratings, and the institutional intelligence layer(03:13) Where oracle demand is highest right now: NAV feeds and RWAs as collateral(04:21) How Credora's risk ratings help institutions compare vaults yielding the same returns(05:16) DeFi exploits and how RWAs with transfer agents offer a safety net(07:27) Balancing speed and safety: co-creating solutions with institutions(08:49) What's coming in the next 6-18 months(10:12) Why vaults are gaining traction as streamlined fund infrastructure(12:12) Where institutional capital is being deployed today: money markets, stablecoins, and private credit(14:14) Tracking 800+ tokenized asset and what surprised him(16:01) Crypto native vs traditional institutions: the split in tokenization adoption(17:11) Buy, build, or lease: how institutions are choosing their tokenization infrastructure(20:31) What real institutional adoption looks like: full lifecycle onchain(22:10) Why collateral is the new conversation, not just tokenization for its own sake(24:40) Final advice to get educated and get on boardESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ben Reynolds, SVP and head of Big Business Banking at SoFi, about why the company launched its SoFi USD stablecoin on Solana and what it means for the firm’s broader vision to become a stablecoin liquidity hub. Ben, who joined Silvergate in 2016 and helped build the Silvergate Exchange Network before the bank shut down in 2023, explains how commercial banks are finally building in the space now that the regulatory environment has changed under the current administration.He walks through why SoFiUSD reserves are held in a Fed master account with zero credit, liquidity, or duration risk and why stablecoin infrastructure is still far less mature than people think. He also explains how the next catalyst for onchain payments could come top down from banks with built-in network effects rather than bottoms up from crypto companies. The conversation covers why non-dollar stablecoins at scale would transform cross-border payments, how SoFi's 15 million users and card processing business create unique synergies, and why building stablecoin-agnostic infrastructure is the smartest strategy right now.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders' journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.com TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:04) Ben's journey from: Silvergate in 2016 to joining SoFi six months ago(02:33) How commercial banks think about digital assets today vs 10 years ago(03:29) Launching SoFiUSD on Solana: cost, settlement speed, and throughput(04:30) Catalysts for onchain payments: non-dollar stablecoins, DeFi friction, and regulatory clarity(07:07) Stablecoin liquidity is overestimated: the emerging market conversion problem(08:07) Advice for big banks: build stablecoin-agnostic and understand the risk differences(09:26) Why SoFi USD reserves sit in a Fed master account(10:06) How Operation Choke Point 2.0 chilled bank building and why the environment is different now(10:44) Biggest realization at SoFi: how early stablecoins still are and how fast SoFi ships(12:18) The big vision: SoFi as the stablecoin liquidity hub for big business bankingESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Mike Silagadze, founder and CEO of EtherFi, and Joseph Chalom, CEO of SharpLink, following SharpLink’s deployment ofed $200 million of its $2 billion ether treasury into EtherFi in January and what the due diligence process actually looked like from both sides. Mike explains why EtherFi is building a ‘DeFi bank,’ an end-to-end self-custody alternative to traditional banking with hundreds of thousands of users and over $5 billion in deposits.Joseph, who spent two decades at BlackRock before joining SharpLink, walks through how his team hired people from Bridgewater and FalconX specifically to underwrite DeFi risk, why tail risk is still risk, and how its permanent capital gives SharpLink an advantage most crypto allocators don't have. The conversation covers why the recent wave of DeFi exploits could have been stopped with basic intervention tools, why stablecoin rails will be the main way crypto reaches the real economy, and tokenization growing as NYSE and Nasdaq opens for 24/7 trading. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:30) The relationship between EtherFi and SharpLink and why they work together(01:46) What EtherFi is building: the DeFi bank with $5-6 billion in deposits(02:24) SharpLink's $2 billion Ethereum treasury and why they deployed $200 million into EtherFi(03:38) Balancing speed and safety: why the DeFi risk playbook hasn't been written yet(05:28) Why institutions move slow deploying, but go fast when monitoring problems(07:25) How EtherFi approaches security: in-office teams, formal verification, and constant audits(08:26) Decentralization theater: why performative decentralization makes protocols less safe(09:17) Why EtherFi is building an emergency “red button” intervention system without compromising self-custody(10:53) How SharpLink's team underwrites DeFi risk(13:28) Why institutions are still in the first inning of DeFi adoption(17:28) How tokenized securities will unlock DeFi at a scale far beyond bitcoin and ether(22:11) Qualified custody with Anchorage and why ops alpha matters for institutional DeFi(23:09) What's next for EtherFi: global licensing and becoming a viable alternative to banks(25:56) Stablecoin rails as the main way crypto reaches the real economy(28:31) Tokenization about to expand as NYSE, Nasdaq, and DTCC opening up 24/7(29:44) Final advice: stay safe, don't chase yield, and invest in young buildersESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this special episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek sits down with eight crypto leaders at an event in Miami hosted by StrataMedia alongside GSR and Alpaca for a rapid-fire mini interview series. Each guest is asked a similar set of questions: what their company is working on, how they describe the state of the crypto market, whether bearish sentiment is overhyped, what they would tokenize if they could tokenize anything, and what else they're paying attention to that listeners should be watching too.Guests include Asheesh Birla (CEO, Evernorth), Phil Fogel (CEO and co-founder, Cork Protocol), Neil Chopra (head of strategy and BD, Fireblocks), Scott Dykstra (co-founder and CTO, Space and Time), David Reising (founder and CEO, Lotus Protocol), Yoshi Yokokawa (co-founder and CEO, Alpaca), Tom Murphy (head of communications, Securitize), and Jakob Palmstierna (president, GSR). Answers range from wanting to tokenize chickens and avocados to entire balance sheets, and the through line is clear: institutions are here, the infrastructure is maturing, and the people still building through a tough market are the ones who will define what comes next. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(00:32) Asheesh Birla, CEO of Evernorth, on active XRP treasury management and tokenizing compute(05:48) Phil Fogel, CEO and co-founder of Cork Protocol, on risk infrastructure DeFi is still missing(12:08) Neil Chopra, head of strategy and BD at Fireblocks, on convergence of crypto native and traditional markets(18:10) Scott Dykstra, co-founder and CTO of Space and Time, on its new institutional Virtual Vvaults and decentralization after exploits(21:56) David Reising, founder and CEO of Lotus Protocol, on tranched lending and DeFi insurance(24:36) Yoshi Yokokawa, co-founder and CEO of Alpaca, on tokenization infrastructure and the paradigm shift ahead(28:11) Tom Murphy, head of communications at Securitize, on its new Jump and Jupiter partnership, Computershare announcement, and tokenized stocks(34:38) Jakob Palmstierna, president of GSR, on market structure evolution and tokenized equities trading 24/7ESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek does an exclusive interview with Kevin Beardsley, the new head of institutional growth at Jito Foundation, in his first interview since announcing the role. Kevin, who previously held senior positions at Kraken and Ctrl Wallet, explains why institutions want Solana exposure but still struggle to actually use the technology, and how the 18-month education process behind every big institutional deal is invisible from the outside.He walks through the process of liquid staking tokens solving the trade-off between earning yield and maintaining capital efficiency, why crypto-native companies are increasingly taking territory from traditional banks rather than the other way around, and what Jito's institutional integrations with Anchorage, FalconX, and others actually look like in practice. The conversation also covers why meme coins created real perception damage for institutional adoption, the branding problem crypto still hasn't fixed, and why AI-enabled wallets are the next thing worth watching.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(00:33) How Xin defines tokenization(02:46) GSR's origin story as a market maker for Ripple's XRP in 2013(06:00) How options evolved from a backwater to a core crypto market(09:12) The crypto gap GSR is trying to fill: building a full-service investment bank(14:29) Acquisitions of Architech and Autonomous and his bear market M&A thesis(17:27) Why the infrastructure bridge between traditional finance and onchain markets still needs work(21:24) Who tokenization actually serves: the underbanked, 24/7 traders, and AI agents(24:28) Will tokenized assets steal market share from bitcoin over time?(27:57) Stablecoin proliferation post-Genius Act and the yield pass-through debate(30:13) How GSR's role evolves as more real world assets get tokenized(33:49) Tokenized equities: wrapped vs issuer-led approaches and what's winning(41:17) Standard Chartered Ventures investment and what banking rails unlock for crypto(49:46) What Xin is watching: AI and blockchain intersection(52:07) Final advice: grit, patience, and keep building through the lowsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Xin Song, CEO of GSR, about how the firm is evolving from a crypto market maker into a full-service digital asset investment bank. Xin, who started his career at BlackRock before later running his own crypto derivatives hedge fund and joining GSR in 2019, explains why tokenization will eat the capital markets world and why the firm acquired Architech and Autonomous to build end-to-end advisory, origination, and distribution capabilities.He walks through how GSR got its start as a market maker for Ripple, how options and prediction markets are converging to unlock new liquidity, and why the real tokenization opportunity is distributing fund products to crypto-native foundations rather than trying to bring traditional institutions onchain. The conversation covers the Standard Chartered Ventures investment and what banking rails unlock for crypto, why the wrapped equity model is winning over issuer-led approaches, and how he sees the current altcoin drawdown as worse than post-FTX - by some measures. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro(00:33) How Xin defines tokenization(02:46) GSR's origin story as a market maker for Ripple's XRP in 2013(06:00) How options evolved from a backwater to a core crypto market(09:12) The crypto gap GSR is trying to fill: building a full-service investment bank(14:29) Acquisitions of Architech and Autonomous and his bear market M&A thesis(17:27) Why the infrastructure bridge between traditional finance and onchain markets still needs work(21:24) Who tokenization actually serves: the underbanked, 24/7 traders, and AI agents(24:28) Will tokenized assets steal market share from bitcoin over time?(27:57) Stablecoin proliferation post-Genius Act and the yield pass-through debate(30:13) How GSR's role evolves as more real world assets get tokenized(33:49) Tokenized equities: wrapped vs issuer-led approaches and what's winning(41:17) Standard Chartered Ventures investment and what banking rails unlock for crypto(49:46) What Xin is watching: AI and blockchain intersection(52:07) Final advice: grit, patience, and keep building through the lowsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Max Stein, a director on the digital assets team at BlackRock, about how the firm translates crypto and tokenization ideas into actual products, and why tokenized cash still has a long way to run. Max, who previously spent four years at ConsenSys and invested at Sino Global Capital before joining BlackRock, explains how the firm's tokenization work actually accelerated after the FTX collapse, and why its BUIDL fund was designed to prove that tokenization could be commercial rather than just a proof of concept.He walks through how BlackRock chose Securitize over other tokenization platforms, why stablecoins and tokenized money market funds are complementary as the payment and savings assets of crypto, and why the real growth driver for stablecoins will be non-crypto use cases. The conversation covers why DeFi exploits shook $15 billion out of lending markets and what that means for tokenized asset design, how AI agents may prefer onchain rails over traditional ones, and why privacy solutions will eventually be necessary for institutional scale. This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:18) How Max defines tokenization and his role at BlackRock(01:40) How BlackRock goes from idea to product in digital assets(03:16) Regulatory environment and how it affects the pace of product development(05:21) Stablecoins at BlackRock: reserve management and internal use(06:17) Why BlackRock chose Securitize and how BUIDL was designed(07:54) How the FTX collapse actually accelerated BlackRock's tokenization work(08:54) Why tokenized cash is still the biggest opportunity(14:09) The shift from private chains to public networks and the hybrid model(22:17) Stablecoins as utility: programmable money, flash loans, and same-rail settlement(27:36) His thoughts on DeFi exploits, contagion, and what it means for tokenized asset design(33:13) How AI agents may prefer onchain rails and accelerate crypto adoption(38:50) Final advice: small decisions shape whether a product scales or sits on a shelfESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with May Zabaneh, SVP and GM of Crypto at PayPal, about why today’s payment systems still suffer from hidden inefficiencies and how stablecoins are emerging as the next layer of financial infrastructure.May explains that while payments today work, they remain slow, costly, and fragmented especially across borders. She breaks down how stablecoins enable faster, cheaper, and more flexible global transactions, and why their real impact may come not from user-facing products, but backend rails powering money movement.The conversation explores what “programmable money” actually means, how agent-driven commerce could automate transactions, and why simplicity and trust are the biggest barriers to adoption. Maye also shares where stablecoins are already working at scale, from peer-to-peer payments to global payouts and how businesses benefit from faster settlement and improved capital efficiency.They also discuss generational shifts in crypto adoption, the role of stablecoins in emerging markets, and why access to stable currency is becoming increasingly important globally. The episode closes with how PayPal is approaching the space differently: focusing on PYUSD distribution, real-world usage, and integrating stablecoins into everyday financial systems.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Introduction(02:13) PayPal’s Hidden Advantage in Crypto(04:38) Payments Are “Easy”… But Still Messy(07:34) The Real Stablecoin Unlock: Cross-Border Efficiency(10:49) Paypal’s outlook on Stablecoins(13:21) Forgd Ad(13:46) The Inflection Point With: Programmable Money(15:54) The First Real Use Case of Agents + Payments(20:57) The Trust Barrier (And How It Breaks)(24:59) The Business Case For: Margins, Speed, and Survival(26:49) The Endgame: Invisible Financial Infrastructure(28:02) PayPal vs The Broader Stablecoin MarketESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Shane Molidor, founder and CEO of Forgd, about why token launches keep failing and what it would actually take to fix them. Shane, who previously led trading desks at Gemini, AscendEX, and FBG Capital before founding Forgd, explains why the structural gaps that bull markets used to hide are now fully exposed, and why founders, VCs, and public sale participants are all down bad as a result. He breaks down how IPOs are engineered with book building and underwriters while crypto launches rely on hope, retail speculation, and market makers that overpromise and underdeliver.He walks through how Forgd's free-to-use benchmarking tool tracks over 600 market maker engagements across 35+ desks, why data-driven RFQs are replacing voice brokerage, and how the exchange listing decision between Binance and OKEx can meaningfully change the shape of a token's chart. The conversation covers why institutional demand for new launches is near zero, why active market making is a glorified pump and dump, and what a fundamental shift to fundraising and book building would actually look like. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:06) State of token launches four months after crypto’s all-time highs(02:03) Structural gaps bull markets hide: who is getting hurt and how(05:23) Why IPOs are engineered and crypto launches are improvised(06:56) Should crypto adopt IPO-style book building and will it happen(08:41) Is now a good time to launch a token? The double-edged sword argument(10:27) Tools Forgd is seeing increased demand for right now(12:30) How Forgd’s benchmarking tool works: 600 engagements, 35+ market makers(15:43) How reputation plays into market maker selection and what changes it(17:46) Why data-driven RFQs are replacing legacy voice brokerage(21:39) Why Shane built Forgd after running a trading desk and seeing the gap firsthand(26:51) Top performing market makers on the leaderboard right now(29:35) How founders say the historical data has changed their decision making(30:43) Forgd’s 2026 roadmap: exchange listing tools, tokenomics simulations, and AI(33:40) Exchange listing strategy: what the data says about Binance vs OKEx vs Coinbase(39:30) How institutional demand for new launches has collapsed and what teams are doing instead(42:22) What the actual solution looks like: rethinking fundraising and book building(44:57) Final advice: use data, not gut instinct, when selecting market makersEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more.For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations.Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Ayyan Rahman, co-founder and chief growth officer at OnRe, about why most real-world asset (RWA) projects in crypto are fundamentally misaligned with how DeFi actually works.Ayyan explains that tokenization alone isn’t enough and that many RWAs today function more like repackaged traditional finance than truly composable on-chain assets. He breaks down why this creates a risk of “Wall Street exit liquidity,” and what it actually takes to build an asset that integrates properly into DeFi systems.The conversation explores why reinsurance offers a unique source of uncorrelated yield, how tokenization can unlock more efficient capital scaling, and why liquidity, redemption mechanics, and risk modeling need to be rethought for on-chain markets.They also discuss the impact of Drift Protocol’s exploit on market confidence, what stress reveals about DeFi systems, why the idea of “risk-free yield” is flawed, and how institutional capital is evaluating onchain opportunities. The episode closes with a broader look at where crypto is heading from speculative markets toward more structured, resilient financial systems built around real assets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on https://www.token-relations.com/investor-updates/all?network=Solana TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction00:32 The Tokenization Illusion01:59 Tokenization vs Reality03:15 Why Reinsurance Actually Matters06:22 The Real Unlock: Scaling Capital09:05 Building a DeFi-Compatible Asset12:14 What Breaks DeFi Under Stress17:13 The Question That Actually Matters22:07 Redefining Risk in DeFi23:49 The Yield Trap29:06 Best Gameplan for Growth36:37 Where Adoption Actually Comes FromEpisodes air every Tuesday and Thursday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, X and more.For more updates, subscribe to the Talking Tokens newsletter here: https://talkingtokens.beehiiv.com/ And follow us on X: Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Token Relations: https://twitter.com/Token_Relations This podcast is built by Token Relations.Please note that this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views shared by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have a direct or indirect financial interest in content mentioned in this episode.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Tom Warner, head of BD at DoubleZero, about why crypto is fundamentally limited by the public internet and how a new high-performance network layer could change everything.Tom explains how blockchains like Solana are hitting a performance ceiling not because of the chains themselves, but because of the infrastructure they run on. He breaks down how traditional finance firms rely on private, ultra-fast networks, why crypto has never had access to that level of connectivity, and how DoubleZero is building a decentralized alternative using subsea cables and high-performance routing.The conversation covers the launch of DoubleZero Edge, a real-time market data distribution platform designed to level the playing field for traders, why predictable latency matters more than raw speed, and how crypto still lags behind Wall Street in execution reliability. Tom also explains Solana “shreds” through a simple analogy, how multicast technology changes data distribution, and why inconsistent transaction timing is one of the biggest barriers to institutional capital.They also explore the future of 24/7 markets, the convergence of DeFi and traditional finance, the growing tension between banks and stablecoins, and what still needs to happen before crypto becomes the dominant financial system.00:00 Introduction00:33 What is Double Zero?01:18 The Internet Is Slowing Crypto Down02:47 The Hidden Network War You Never See04:56 Solana’s Bottleneck Isn’t What You Think06:35 What DoubleZero Edge Changes10:22 This Analogy Explains Everything19:16 Crypto Still Can’t Compete With Wall Street23:32 What Happens When Markets Never Close26:14 What’s Still Holding Crypto Back31:52 Banks vs Stablecoins Is Just Getting Started33:31 Where the Real Opportunities AreYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Matt Luongo, co-founder of Mezo, and Arthur Hayes, CIO of Maelstrom and co-founder of BitMEX, about why they see bitcoin as the best collateral ever created and what it means to build a financial system on top of it. Matt explains how Mezo is rebuilding banking on bitcoin by letting holders borrow against their BTC rather than spend it, and why the lending market that blew up last cycle is now being rebuilt onchain with better infrastructure. Arthur shares why he treats bitcoin purely as a liquidity barometer, why governments will always choose to print rather than accept consequences, and why that makes bitcoin the only rational long-term savings asset.The two walk through what sustainable bitcoin yield actually looks like versus the token-printing schemes that failed in the last cycle and how institutions holding bitcoin on their balance sheet are deploying it. The conversation also covers Arthur's personal philosophy on leverage, Matt's experience financing his house with bitcoin, and why both guests believe people shouldn’t sell your BTC, just borrow against it. Arthur Hayes:Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/cryptohayes/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hayes-b493b42/Substack - https://cryptohayes.substack.com/Web: https://www.cryptohayes.comX - https://x.com/cryptohayesMaelstrom Fund:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/maelstromfundWeb - https://www.maelstrom.fundX - https://x.com/maelstromfundTIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:37) Why Matt built Mezo and what drew Arthur in with his big picture thesis(02:23) Arthur on Maelstrom, his family office, and why bitcoin needs to be useful(03:16) The state of bitcoin in 2026(05:57) Bitcoin as a liquidity alarm: why it rises and falls with global money printing(08:47) Governments choosing bailouts over consequences, and how bitcoin can win(15:04) How to think about risk before going max long bitcoin(20:39) What macro patterns Arthur and Matt actually track(23:41) What sustainable bitcoin yield looks like versus token-printing schemes(25:24) Why a lot of bitcoin holders have never had access to standard DeFi(32:36) How institutions with BTC on their balance sheet are thinking about yield today(34:26) Why every DeFi exploit sets institutional adoption back and what changes that(37:03) Bitcoin as collateral: what it actually unlocks for holders(38:25) How Matt and Arthur each got into crypto(44:41) Is it too late to buy bitcoin? The conversations people are actually having now(45:55) Market outlook and price predictionsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Rune Christensen, founder of Sky (formerly MakerDAO), about how the protocol is connecting hundreds of billions in idle stablecoins to institutional-grade yield through its Sky Agent Network. Rune explains why Sky evolved from MakerDAO, how USDS offers a native 3.75% savings rate with no lock-ups or fees, and why the protocol generated $338 million in annualized revenue with $158 million in net profit during recent market volatility.He walks through the Sky Agent Network enabling decentralized capital allocation across players like Spark, BlackRock, and Janus Henderson, why Sky deployed $1 billion into the first tokenized CLO, and how the protocol's seven-year track record makes it the only project institutions trust at scale. The conversation covers Sky's 74% USDS supply growth, why DeFi and TradFi will merge into one system, and how AI agents will drive the next phase of financial automation through blockchain-native stablecoins.TIMESTAMPS 00:00 – Intro02:08 – Why Sky evolved from MakerDAO: rethinking DeFi for real-world scale04:00 – Sky as infrastructure for global capital markets and capital formation05:34 – How Sky Savings Rate works with 3.75% yield07:06 – Sky Agent Network: decentralized businesses competing for best risk-adjusted returns08:16 – Why Sky is different from Ethena and other yield-bearing stablecoins11:49 – Spark protocol reaching $3 billion TVL as it grows in the lending market14:03 – How real cash-flowing assets are coming onchain for the first time18:32 – Why institutions like BlackRock and Janus Henderson work with Sky 27:18 – Sky’s Grove deploying $1 billion into first tokenized CLO by Janus Henderson and Centrifuge30:10 – When DeFi and TradFi merge: stablecoins can act as super capital34:13 – AI agents driving blockchain-native financial automation37:35 – Sky's revenue: $338M annualized with $158M net profit during market volatility39:05 – Growing stablecoin supply as the main opportunity ahead50:18 – Rune's endgame: fully automating Sky through AI to finally step awayESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Vik Arun, co-founder of Superform, about why DeFi was always heading toward automation and why AI agents not humans are the natural managers of onchain portfolios. Vik, who previously co-led a $100M DeFi and yield fund at BlockTower Capital before launching Superform in 2022, explains how the protocol evolved from a yield marketplace into a user-owned neobank, and why he believes the goal is to replace banks entirely rather than work alongside them.He walks through Superform's UP token launch, why 85% of airdrop recipients sold immediately, and what teams getting ready to TGE should learn from that experience. The conversation covers the two paths left for software companies in the age of AI, and why the only thing that can stop crypto's future is believers burning themselves out. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:15) How Vik is using AI across Superform and what it means for team structure(03:18) Two paths for software companies: fully embrace AI or settle for margins(07:45) Superform's evolution from yield marketplace to user-owned neobank(09:12) Why DeFi was always heading toward automation, not human management(10:51) How AI agents will manage vault strategies and what guardrails are needed(11:00) Where banks can't compete and what user-owned finance actually means(14:20) Self-custody: why some people genuinely don't want it and what that costs them(15:02) The Clarity Act and why banning stablecoin yields through banks could be great for DeFi(18:00) Will banks acquire DeFi protocols or will DeFi replace them?(19:08) Superform's end goal: replace the banks(23:27) Why Superform launched its UP token in a tough market(24:34) Core governance capabilities and the first three improvement proposals(26:09) Token launch lessons: after 85% of recipients sold immediately, distribution is everything(29:03) B2C vs B2B: mobile app for consumers, super vaults for institutions(30:52) Why this cycle may be the first where institutions lead retail into DeFi(31:38) 2026 roadmap: Android launch, credit card, and agentic vault managers(39:12) Final advice: the believers who stay will build what mattersESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Samantha Bohbot, partner and chief growth officer at RockawayX, about why DeFi vaults have evolved from simple yield products into the foundation for actively managed, institutional-grade credit strategies. Samantha, who spent nearly four years as VP of growth at DCG before joining RockawayX, explains how the firm allocates over $2 billion across venture, liquid tokens, and onchain credit, and why it launched its own vaults on Morpho and Camino after spending years as one of the largest depositors into these products itself.She walks through what separates a serious vault from a commoditized one, why credit underwriting and risk infrastructure matter more than yield numbers, and how AI agents could reshape how capital flows into DeFi. The conversation also covers the Resolve exploit, why prediction markets are overhyped relative to actual usage, how to spot confirmation bias in crypto venture, and why building real financial infrastructure takes longer than a hackathon. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:14) Samantha's background at DCG and path to RockawayX(01:49) What RockawayX is: venture, liquid tokens, credit fund, and infrastructure(03:11) Why vaults are the next stage of the DeFi promise(05:24) How RockawayX differentiates its vault strategy from the crowd(07:22) Why credit underwriting and risk infrastructure are what separate real vaults(08:21) Why RockawayX decided to build vaults itself rather than wait(09:03) How the first RWA mixed pool works(13:37) Generative finance and how AI agents change vault UX and product fit(16:19) Embedding vaults into fintech products to reach non-crypto users(19:45) The Resolv exploit: how the attack worked and what curators got right(22:30) RockawayX's 2026 priorities and where to allocate time and resources(26:02) Why prediction markets are getting too much attention(27:14) Running a market-neutral strategy on Polymarket and its liquidity limits(33:16) Confirmation bias in crypto venture: pitching decks instead of businesses(40:09) OCC charters and the future of crypto banking regulation(42:37) Final advice: trust your gut on people and ideasYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Michael Tannenbaum, CEO of Figure, about how the company processes over $1 billion in mortgages monthly and why it went public in 2025. Michael, who was first employee at Brex and chief revenue officer at SoFi before joining Figure in 2024, explains why the company tokenized its own stock first to prove the model works before approaching other issuers.He walks through Figure's 100% year-over-year growth with 50% margins by using blockchain tech to cut mortgage origination costs, why tokenization is now part of the buying criteria for capital markets, and the difference between creating liquidity versus just tokenizing assets. The conversation covers the Provenance blockchain, OPEN launch and demand, its DeFi marketplace, and why private credit needs institutional owners for long-term assets rather than retail investors.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:17) Career path: SoFi chief revenue officer, first employee at Brex, now Figure CEO(03:21) Why Michael bet on Brex(05:09) Reconnecting with Mike Cagney on Figure(08:41) His framework for building through crypto and fintech cycles(10:34) Figure's IPO timing and being publicly traded while building onchain markets(15:56) Why Figure tokenized its own stock first before approaching other companies(18:35) Liquidity in tokenization: just because you tokenize doesn't mean it's liquid(22:00) Launching with Figure’s own inventory to avoid guinea pig problem(23:26) What it means to have “hair on fire” problems(25:37) When to emphasize blockchain benefits versus meeting skeptics where they are(27:26) Breaking the rule of 40: 100% growth with 50% margins using blockchain technology(28:27) Revenue growth: 100% year-over-year across mortgages, stablecoins, and DeFi marketplace(33:11) Capital markets highway thesis: blockchain infrastructure not SaaS as next fintech model(46:26) Watching private credit nervousness around retail investor redemptionsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Parker Edwards, partner at Framework Ventures, about deploying a $2.5 billion mandate to bring institutional-grade yield onchain through Obex, a Sky-focused incubator. Parker announces the first cohort where it’s deploying $1 billion across eight companies including Maple, Centrifuge, Securitize, River, and Better Home & Finance, spanning areas like structured credit, mortgages, energy, and AI infrastructure.He explains why real-world assets are finally reaching institutional scale, with players like Apollo and BlackRock actively participating. The conversation covers why established companies with deep domain expertise are better positioned to scale with Obex than early-stage startups, how Sky grew to $11.5 billion in USDS stablecoin supply, and the plan to hit $20 billion by 2026.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro with Parker Edwards, partner at Framework Ventures(00:25) What is Obex and its $2.5 billion mandate to deploy capital into Sky ecosystem(01:09) Sky's growth to $11.5 billion in stablecoin supply as third largest stablecoin(02:06) Why Framework Ventures is administering the Obex incubator(02:52) First cohort: Maple, USD.ai, Centrifuge, Securitize, River, Better, and others deploying $1 billion(04:12) Why it chose more established players over early-stage startups for day-one scale(06:06) State of RWAs: institutional-grade founders with deep domain expertise entering the space(08:03) Asset manager mandates: structured credit, private credit, energy, and AI infrastructure(10:05) Why Better Home & Finance chose to build on Sky for mortgage tokenization(13:33) Real cash-flowing assets onchain without artificial yield incentives(15:15) How DeFi is competing with banks and credit funds on quality assets(17:13) Apollo and BlackRock participating onchain(20:16) Sky's recent $435 million revenue and $20 billion stablecoin target by end of 2026(22:20) Why USDS won't replace USDC or USDT but serves different institutional roles(27:26) Final adviceESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Dan Mottice, head of stablecoins at Modern Treasury and founder of Beam, a stablecoin payment platform it acquired in October 2025. Dan, who previously led Visa's crypto products before building Beam, explains how payment infrastructure is evolving to treat stablecoins as a default rail alongside traditional fiat systems.He walks through why moving money remains hard, how 24/7 liquidity will transform cross-border and domestic payments, and why the layer between fiat and crypto is the real bottleneck. The conversation covers stablecoin clearinghouses as an emerging opportunity, why stablecoin neobanks need to match incumbent features and where value will accrue in the payment stack. Dan also shares lessons from building consumer versus B2B products and his advice for staying focused on the builders who stick around during bear markets.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.comTIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro(01:40) Dan's background at Visa and building Beam(03:36) Modern Treasury acquiring Beam in October 2025 and the vision for stablecoins as a rail(04:16) How Visa and stablecoin platforms will become symbiotic, not competitors(06:13) Current payment systems: pretty well solved domestically, room for improvement cross-border(08:12) Why 24/7 liquidity will dramatically improve both domestic and cross-border payments(09:54) Where value accrues: infrastructure layer vs customer relationship ownership(13:04) If starting over today: building a global liquidity protocol or stablecoin clearinghouse(17:24) Biggest misconceptions about payments and how hard it is to get money in and out of blockchains(20:01) Why stablecoin neobanks need FDIC insurance and customer support to beat incumbents(31:26) What Dan wants to see builders create with new onchain money movement primitives(32:14) Final advice: focus on the people who stick around during bear marketsYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Muneeb Ali, founder of Stacks, about navigating his fourth bear market and why this one feels different as AI could potentially offer higher growth than crypto for the first time. Muneeb explains why quantum computing poses a real threat to Bitcoin even before quantum computers exist, and why some Bitcoin hardliners refuse to acknowledge the problem.He walks through the evolution of Bitcoin DeFi from peak excitement in 2024 to maturation in 2025, why BTC yield has product-market fit, and how Stacks is launching self-custodial Bitcoin staking with 3-7% yields. The conversation covers its $400M+ in BTC rewards already paid out, why institutions want Bitcoin-denominated returns and why Bitcoin maturing with yield capabilities will help traditional banks offer it to clients even if hardliners don't like BlackRock's involvement.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:24) How his 4th bear market feels different with AI competing with crypto(04:47) Quantum computing threat to Bitcoin and why hardliners won't acknowledge it(07:04) Bitcoin's path to quantum resistance(12:26) What happens to Satoshi's Bitcoin and lost coins in quantum future(14:44) Bitcoin to $1M by 2030: conviction despite slower appreciation rates(17:27) Bitcoin DeFi evolution from 2024 to 2025(21:06) Bitcoin collateral: yield and lending product-market fit(28:55) Why institutions want BTC-denominated yields(31:10) What changed culturally to make Bitcoin staking acceptable to holders(34:55) Self-custodial Bitcoin staking: earn 3-7% with BTC in your hardware walletESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Jonathan Han, CEO of Euler Finance, about building the credit layer of the internet and making DeFi lending accessible to retail and institutional users alike. Jonathan, who previously worked at Bridgewater Associates explains how Euler's lending framework is evolving from a permissionless protocol to one serving both crypto natives and traditional finance partners.The conversation covers why traditional mortgage applications can take months when crypto lending can happen in seconds, how tokenized funds like Apollo provide diversification against bitcoin volatility in DeFi lending markets, and why Euler integrated Securitize’s digital securities (DS) protocol, which allows for DS tokens to be used as collateral in “curated, risk isolated lending markets.”. Jonathan also discusses the institutional pivot happening across DeFi, why fixed-rate lending and compliance features are key for enterprise partners, common misconceptions about institutional adoption timelines, and how AI agents are beginning to execute trades and deploy portfolios across lending markets. He also shares insights from building Euler to over $4 billion in deposits within a year after the protocol's recovery from a 2023 hack.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:19) From Bridgewater Associates to crypto(04:04) Becoming Euler CEO after leading partnerships and institutional growth(04:47) Building the credit layer of the internet: democratizing access to credit(07:26) Why crypto lending unlocks liquidity in seconds vs months for mortgages(08:12) Euler's evolution from permissionless DeFi to serving institutions and fintech(10:06) Making financial tools accessible without requiring a finance degree(14:57) RWAs as diversification: Apollo funds performing independently of bitcoin volatility(20:06) How tokenized treasuries and private credit reduce liquidation risk in DeFi(22:45) Euler launching tokenized stock lending following Nasdaq, Kraken partnership(24:00) What institutional partners actually ask: fixed-rate products and compliance(26:41) Biggest misconceptions: crypto moving too fast vs traditional cycles(29:45) Measuring success by: plugging Euler into stablecoin issuers and fintech platforms(35:20) Retail investors accessing exotic financial tools through education and AI(37:20) How Jonathan uses AI agents for portfolio deployment and market summariesESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Hart Lambur, co-founder of Across Protocol and UMA, in two segments: breaking news about Across's token-to-equity proposal and a conversation from ETH Denver. Hart first unveils the Bridge Across proposal, a first-of-its-kind "token buyout" where, if approved, ACX holders can exchange tokens for equity in a new C Corp at 1:1 ratio or redeem for USDC. He explains why the DAO structure has become a bottleneck as institutional demand grows, why long tail tokens are undervalued, how enterprise partners need enforceable contracts DAOs can't provide, and addresses concerns around US security law restrictions before the two-week community discussion period.The ETH Denver segment covers why competition from Stripe's Tempo and Circle's Arc will push Ethereum into "war mode" and drive innovation, the evolution of the Open Intents framework and two-second bridging experiences, how the L2 thesis didn't stick while EVM architecture remains strong, whether stablecoins will be consumer-facing or backend infrastructure for fintechs, the power law distribution of stablecoins as a key competition metric, and why AI agent-to-agent payments are a natural fit for crypto rails.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:54) The Bridge Across proposal for token-to-equity exchange or USDC buyout options(02:40) Why DAOs can't sign enterprise contracts and long tail tokens are undervalued(08:52) Across Protocol maintaining decentralized governance and non-custodial protections(10:46) What happens next: two-week discussion period before snapshot vote(14:13) Intro to ETH Denver conversation(15:27) Energy in bear markets: focus on building over hype and token prices(16:05) Ethereum going into "war mode" with competition from Tempo and Arc(17:22) How blockchain fragmentation benefits Across while challenging user experience(18:23) Open Intents framework's evolution since launch(20:18) L2 thesis not sticking as expected, but EVM architecture remains strong(24:33) Future of blockchain interoperability and solving fragmentation for users(29:12) Stablecoins as consumer products versus backend fintech infrastructure(34:48) How Robinhood and Stripe are approaching stablecoin adoption differently(38:23) Power law distribution of stablecoins as key metric for competition(42:28) AI agents and agent-to-agent payments as natural crypto use case(43:32) Final advice: stay the course through bear marketsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Scott Dykstra, co-founder and CTO of Space and Time, about how the crypto market has evolved from the 2021 NFT craze to the 2026 institutional era. Scott explains why almost every bank is now writing smart contracts, how Space and Time helps financial institutions connect offchain data to onchain markets, and why blockchains are fundamentally better transactional databases than traditional systems like Oracle.He walks through the shift from early crypto startups to mature DeFi protocols to enterprise clients, how banks are building pilots for stablecoins and tokenizing real-world assets, and why the Wells Fargo data manipulation case proves the need for verifiable compute. The conversation covers Space and Time's Proof of SQL technology, how the company enables stablecoin yields institutions' need for offchain data, and why AI agents buying their own services with stablecoins may be the next frontier for crypto adoption.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:31) How WisdomTree defines tokenization as recordkeeping technology(04:16) Growth from $30M to $770M in tokenized assets within one year(06:13) Three use cases: stablecoin reserves, treasury management, and DeFi collateral(08:01) Talking to Aave and Morpho about integrating tokenized funds as collateral(09:17) Why its tokenized money market fund could become WisdomTree's largest fund overall(10:17) SEC approval for 24/7 trading and instant settlement: the big unlock(13:11) Why 24/7 trading only works with tokenized funds, not traditional infrastructure(16:02) DeFi and TradFi convergence: partnership not competition(18:28) Customer journey: wallet-first users, not brokerage account holders(27:42) Why liquid assets benefit more from tokenization than illiquid real estateESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Will Peck, head of digital assets at WisdomTree, about the firm's explosive growth in tokenized real-world assets from $30 million to $770 million and its recent SEC approval for 24/7 trading and instant settlement. Will explains how WisdomTree's tokenized money market fund serves three key use cases:, stablecoin reserve management, crypto-native treasury management, and DeFi collateral and why the company believes this fund could become their largest across the entire business.He walks through the SEC exemptive order that unlocks nonstop trading, how tokenization brings instant settlement that traditional recordkeeping cannot replicate, and why WisdomTree focuses on liquid assets like treasuries rather than illiquid real estate. The conversation covers WisdomTree Prime's retail app and WisdomTree Connect's institutional platform, potential partnerships with DeFi protocols, why Europe presents unique regulatory complexity and strong opportunity, and the two critical unlocks needed for tokenization to scale.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:31) How WisdomTree defines tokenization as recordkeeping technology(04:16) Growth from $30M to $770M in tokenized assets within one year(06:13) Three use cases: stablecoin reserves, treasury management, and DeFi collateral(08:01) Talking to Aave and Morpho about integrating tokenized funds as collateral(09:17) Why its tokenized money market fund could become WisdomTree's largest fund overall(10:17) SEC approval for 24/7 trading and instant settlement: the big unlock(13:11) Why 24/7 trading only works with tokenized funds, not traditional infrastructure(16:02) DeFi and TradFi convergence: partnership not competition(18:28) Customer journey: wallet-first users, not brokerage account holders(27:42) Why liquid assets benefit more from tokenization than illiquid real estateESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Diogo Mónica, general partner at Haun Ventures, executive chairman and co-founder of Anchorage Digital, and board member of Erebor. Diogo explains how stablecoins, tokenized equities, and generative finance are evolving and why Haun Ventures invested in Palmer Luckey's Erebor Bank, which received the first national bank charter under the second Trump administration.He walks through why Erebor raised $635 million in committed capital to serve AI, crypto, and defense, how OCC-chartered banks differ from fintech apps that operate through partner banks, and why getting a proper federal charter matters for building trust. The conversation covers the founding team's expertise spanning Oculus, Anduril, Circle, and compliance backgrounds, how Erebor secured its charter in under eight months, and why this marks a shift toward more crypto-friendly banking regulation.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:44) Why institutions are here but crypto tokens aren't going up(03:23) Generative finance: turning language directly into financial products with AI(05:31) Why Haun Ventures invested in Erebor, Palmer Luckey's new bank(09:10) How Erebor secured its OCC charter in under eight months(12:22) What an OCC charter means and why it matters for crypto banking(14:08) How Erebor differs from fintechs like Mercury that aren't actual banks(17:43) The future of banking: will new rails beat old incumbents(19:24) Building trust in crypto banking after historical de-banking experiences(21:07) The challenge of opening bank accounts with "crypto" in company names(22:07) Behind Erebor's founding teamESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Mason Nystrom, partner at Pantera Capital who hosts the Stateful podcast, and Daniel Marin, CEO of Nexus, about the state of crypto venture capital, the consolidation phase happening across markets, and what it takes to launch a blockchain in 2026. Mason explains why 2025 saw record venture dollars deployed into fewer deals, signaling maturation and companies finding product-market fit, while Daniel shares insights from building Nexus from a team of 10 to launching a specialized L1 blockchain focused on verifiable finance.They discuss how cycles of consolidation lead to expansion, why specialization beats general-purpose blockchains, the return to fundamentals with revenue-generating protocols, and how stablecoins and perpetual exchanges are driving the shift toward verifiable finance. The conversation covers Nexus' partnership with M0 for its native stablecoin, the future intersection of permissionless systems and walled gardens, what characterizes a winner in crypto, and final advice to think independently and build conviction during uncertain markets.TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:27) Why 2025 was an era of consolidation with record VC dollars into fewer deals(03:20) Cycles of consolidation and expansion across crypto and AI markets(04:05) Pantera as investor in Nexus' Series A(04:39) What's changed for Nexus since raising: from 10 people to launching mainnet(05:47) Announcing Nexus Exchange and USDX stablecoin partnership with M0(06:59) Return to fundamentals and revenue-generating protocols driving the market(09:16) Why specialization beats general-purpose blockchains(13:53) Verifiable finance and building purpose-built L1s for financial applications(21:39) How permissionless systems and walled gardens will coexist(28:13) What characterizes a winner in crypto: urgency and relentless building(32:15) Final advice: think independently and build conviction during uncertaintyYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Nick van Eck, co-founder and CEO of Agora, about how the stablecoin infrastructure platform is building the financial fabric for enterprises to operate entirely onchain. Nick explains why Agora launched as a neutral horizontal player to serve enterprises beyond the USDT and USDC duopoly, and how the company's white-label model allows partners to launch branded stablecoins on top of AUSD - while sharing revenue and network effects.He walks through the waves of stablecoin adoption from crypto governance tokens to DeFi to emerging markets and why their adoption is already here due to stablecoins being 100 times better than local alternatives, and how Agora is solving payment workflows. The conversation covers how the Genius Act and Bridge acquisition accelerated Fortune 500 interest, why stablecoins export U.S. capital markets and stability to regions with high inflation and poor financial services. TIMESTAMPS (00:00) Intro(01:23) Why Nick started Agora to serve enterprises beyond the Tether-Circle duopoly(02:13) Competing in waves of adoption rather than directly challenging existing players(03:37) Focusing on net new markets: institutional assets, DeFi, and emerging markets(04:54) Solving entire payment workflows from treasury to cross-border disbursements(06:09) What keeps companies onchain?(08:42) Agora's white-label business model and revenue sharing with partners(12:46) Custody solutions for the next trillion dollars in stablecoins(18:26) Traditional businesses adopting stablecoins faster outside the US(19:44) Stablecoins as means for exporting U.S. capital markets to emerging markets(22:36) Fortune 500 focus and preparing for Genius Act implementation(23:16) Final advice: operate with integrity and play the long gameESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Sid Powell, co-founder and CEO of Maple Finance, about how its onchain asset management platform grew from $500 million to over $4 billion in AUM through disciplined risk management and institutional-grade lending infrastructure. Sid explains how Maple evolved from its original 2019 vision of tokenized bonds to becoming a direct lender serving prime brokers, asset managers, and trading firms, and why the platform pivoted multiple times to find product-market fit.He walks through the growth of syrupUSDC and syrupUSDT as yield-bearing stablecoins, why bitcoin remains the dominant collateral for institutional lending, and how Maple is bridging crypto-native institutions with traditional finance players. The conversation covers the future of tokenized securitization, native onchain issuance vs wrapped assets, why onchain lending could scale to hundreds of billions of dollars, and Sid's advice during down markets.TIMESTAMPS 00:00 – Intro01:25 – Why Sid launched Maple in 2019 and his banking background02:44 – How Maple evolved from tokenized bonds to direct institutional lending03:53 – Pivoting to institutional market makers during DeFi summer05:28 – Launch of syrupUSDC and syrupUSDT as DeFi products for retail06:41 – Traditional asset managers and banks engaging with crypto, despite long sales cycles08:00 – How Maple manages risk and maintains 99%+ repayment rate through overcollateralization10:08 – Why bitcoin dominates as collateral due to ETF adoption and deep derivatives markets14:37 – Institutional demand driving Maple's growth from $500M to $4B in AUM18:44 – Active asset management approach and institutional-grade compliance frameworks22:18 – Future of tokenized securitization and CLO structures on blockchains25:01 – Native onchain issuance vs wrapped tokenization and his cinema analogy26:40 – Competing with Blackstone, and Apollo by riding the stablecoin technology wave28:00 – Final advice: persist and build during down markets when others are leavingESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/ Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Saeed Badreg, CEO of Wormhole Labs, about how the incubated Sunrise project helps asset issuers gain distribution and reach users across blockchains, with a particular focus on the Solana ecosystem. Saeed explains why the team built Sunrise as a turnkey solution for projects struggling to penetrate closed blockchain ecosystems, and how Wormhole's Native Token Transfer (NTT) framework enables assets to move across chains without wrapped tokens or fragmented liquidity.He walks through the difference between wrapped and native tokens, why provenance and trust matter more than marketing terminology, and how Sunrise launched with Monad's MON token, among others, to provide day-one liquidity on Solana. The conversation covers why global institutions are accelerating crypto adoption faster than expected, how countries are modeling regulatory frameworks after the US Genius Act and pending Clarity Act, when price discovery for major assets will move onchain, and Saeed's three-part framework for evaluating teams.This episode is a part of the Solana Sessions campaign that Token Relations and the Talking Tokens podcast are doing, diving into founders’ journeys and startups building on Solana. Check out the accompanying newsletter on www.token-relations.comTIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro(01:49) What Sunrise is and how it helps asset issuers with distribution(02:40) Pain points preventing non-native tokens from creating great trading markets on other chains(03:00) What distribution means for asset issuers across blockchain ecosystems(04:08) Why Solana is hard to penetrate, despite being the second biggest blockchain(04:46) How Sunrise provides turnkey solutions for reaching Solana's user base and enabling free flow of capital(06:01) Why Wormhole cares about economic activity in crypto in aggregate(06:23) Wrapped versus native tokens and why provenance matters more than marketing speak(07:11) Who controls assets on different blockchains and trust in intermediaries(08:14) How Wormhole's Native Token Transfer framework works(09:38) Why liquidity fragmentation is the challenge for tokens bridging across chains(11:06) Sunrise solving distribution, go-to-market, and technical challenges(12:34) Monad's MON token as Sunrise's first major launch(14:21) Why centralized exchanges still dominate price discovery today(16:02) When liquidity onchain will compete with centralized venues(17:35) How Wormhole measures success and adoption(19:43) Regulatory environment improving and institutional adoption accelerating globally(21:58) Countries modeling crypto regulation after the US Genius Act(24:06) Building for volatility and focusing on 1-2 year product roadmaps(26:37) Wormhole's technology solving real problems for customers(28:44) Vision for assets, liquidity, and markets to move freely across ecosystems(30:52) Expansion plans for Sunrise beyond crypto to commodities, stocks, and RWAs(33:00) How Saeed's vision evolved since becoming CEO in 2023(34:35) Surprising pace of global institutional adoption over the past year(36:20) What Saeed is focused on in 2026(36:41) Timeline for price discovery moving onchain: within three years(38:15) Three-part framework for evaluating teams: technical soundness, go-to-market acumen, and understanding financial marketsESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141 Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinek Talking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokens Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokenization, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Thomas Cowan, head of tokenization at Galaxy, about how blockchain technology is upgrading decades-old financial infrastructure and why institutional commitment to tokenization remains strong, despite crypto market volatility. Thomas explains how tokenization connects information and value the way physical cash does, why the convergence of regulatory clarity, technical maturity, and institutional presence is creating unprecedented momentum, and how Galaxy's partnership with State Street demonstrates traditional finance's long-term commitment to onchain capital markets.He explains why understanding the "singleness of money" matters as stablecoins proliferate, how tokenization will upgrade the existing financial system, and why price action no longer dictates institutional tokenization strategies heading into 2026.This episode is sponsored by Securitize, the proven leader in tokenized funds, equities, and private markets. Discover more at securitize.io. TIMESTAMPS (0:00) – Intro(1:21) – Defining tokenization(1:40) – Connecting information and value like physical cash(1:59) – Instant settlement vs credit card transactions(2:23) – Thomas's background at Paxos, Ripple, and Boston Fed(2:44) – Backend financial networks are 50-60 years old(3:07) – Tokenization upgrades rather than upends the system(3:26) – Understanding the singleness of money concept(4:03) – Why all dollars aren't equal on the backend(4:40) – Stablecoin explosion in 2026 and dollar fungibility(4:59) – Comparing stablecoin reserves to bank deposits(5:47) – Why CBDCs, real-time payments, and stablecoins will coexist(6:05) – What tokenization unlocks beyond instant settlement(6:38) – Tech disruption: improving processes then new use cases(6:48) – Three pillars: regulatory clarity, tech maturity, institutions(9:03) – Why this cycle feels different(10:22) – Balancing short-term narratives with long-term conviction(10:56) – Advice for crypto builders navigating uncertainty(11:47) – Galaxy's infrastructure and onchain capital markets(14:03) – Building capital markets within a bank(15:15) – Why blockchains are more than database upgrades(16:39) – Smart money deploying capital onchain(18:38) – 24/7 global markets and reducing settlement risk(20:25) – Building institutional-grade infrastructure(21:58) – Stablecoins and tokenized funds leading product-market fit(23:42) – Industry maturation beyond crypto-native use cases(25:04) – Bridging traditional finance with crypto-first tech(26:48) – How different institutions approach tokenization(29:01) – Standardization enabling innovation(30:44) – Traditional finance bringing new ideas to Galaxy(31:57) – Regulatory tailwinds and institutional curiosity(32:49) – What success looks like for Galaxy in 2026(33:54) – State Street partnership and tokenized money market fund(34:51) – Traditional finance bringing unexpected use cases(35:42) – Institutional long-term planning vs crypto short-termism(36:22) – Price action no longer shifts institutional sentiment(37:06) – Industry reaching maturation(37:44) – Go deep on Twitter and Discord to understand the techESSENTIALS You can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on X Jacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinekTalking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.

In this episode of Talking Tokens, Jacquelyn Melinek speaks with Sun Raghupathi, CEO of Veda, about how DeFi evolved from speculation to a robust financial backend for users, fintechs and asset managers. Sun explains why degens were essential beta testers for early DeFi systems, how vault infrastructure bridges the gap between onchain complexity and traditional finance, and why idle balances should automatically generate yield for users instead of enriching banks.He walks through Veda's growth from serving DeFi projects like Ether.fi to powering yield products for centralized exchanges like Kraken and Coinbase. He also explains why stablecoin yield is the killer use case driving fintech adoption, and how vault infrastructure works across multiple chains. The conversation covers the net interest margin disruption facing traditional banks, enterprise L2 announcements going quiet, and Sun's advice to DeFi founders on meeting reality where it's at during this critical window for execution.TIMESTAMPS(0:00) – Intro(1:06) – What most people misunderstand about DeFi today(1:22) – Getting into DeFi at the 2021 peak and the Wild West era(2:32) – Degens as beta testers for early DeFi systems(2:54) – DeFi transitioning from speculative to robust financial backend for the real world(3:49) – Two kinds of DeFi builders: changing the system vs getting rich(4:33) – Night and day difference between DeFi and traditional finance transparency(4:59) – Veda as a DeFi engine for asset managers, fintechs and financial apps(5:38) – Idle balances should generate yield automatically and vault infrastructure explained(6:59) – Starting Veda in mid-2024 with Ether.fi partnership(7:44) – Exchanges and fintechs entering DeFi unexpectedly(8:24) – Kraken DeFi Earn and Coinbase onchain yield vault products(11:35) – Stablecoin yield as the killer use case driving fintech adoption(14:00) – Veda's TVL growth, yield generation and operating across multiple chains(17:39) – Regulatory environment improving and asset manager interest in onchain products(20:30) – Vaults as the primitive for DeFi adoption at scale(22:03) – Technical architecture, security and risk management in vault design(25:10) – Smart contract audits and safety measures(26:49) – Vaults vs other DeFi yield products(28:43) – Recognizing legitimate vs sketchy vaults through track record and scale(29:44) – Groups Veda wants to tap into and traditional banks engaging with DeFi(30:46) – Hardest trade-offs for banks moving onchain and net interest margin disruption(31:45) – Will DeFi disrupt finance or will finance become DeFi?(32:34) – Watching enterprises building L2s and the quiet period on new chain announcements(33:19) – Advice to DeFi founders: small window to stay relevant and execute(34:00) – Meeting reality where it's at and ensuring the transition happens responsiblyESSENTIALSYou can subscribe to the podcast on Spotify, Apple or YouTube.If you enjoy the show, please leave a review — it really helps.Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0LOgWxIQ0NnNUD5eXsSuoZApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-tokens/id1743669141Follow us on XJacquelyn: https://twitter.com/jacqmelinekTalking Tokens: https://twitter.com/_TalkingTokensFollow us on Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/_talkingtokens/Note: This podcast is for informational purposes only. Views shared are opinions, not financial advice. The host or guests may have financial interests in discussed content.