The Obliterated Place with Kaye Steinsapir

This is one of my favorite episodes because Jennifer Lee Snowden (Bossi) is one of my favorite people. We met as young women in the fight of our lives against breast cancer. We're members of a club everyone wants to avoid at all costs, but our sisterhood is one of life's greatest gifts. Bossi remarks that breast cancer is both the worst and best thing that ever happened to her. You have an idea of the insanely difficult marathon required to survive cancer - listen to Bossi's poignant explanation of how battling this shit (twice!) shaped her into a fearless creative force and feminist icon. There are very few people who come into your life - especially as an adult - whose soul sings, even in the most desolate, obliterated place. In a world that feels increasingly dark, my friend, Jen, is pure light. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Check out Bossi's album, "Tell All The Other Girls," her "Finishing School," Substack, live performance schedule and more on her website. Connect with Jennifer Lee Snowden aka Bossi:Website: https://www.iambossi.com/Bossi - “Stars”: https://youtu.be/bXndcdOXahs?is=6jvX9c_cDg_ZNkAe Connect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

In this episode, I connect with a fellow writer whose work I deeply admire, Jason MacKenzie. Jason and I first crossed paths on Substack, where we both write about our beautiful, young daughters who left this world far too soon. Jason joins us from Canada to share his raw, unfiltered journey through an obliterated place that began long ago. For over five grueling years, Jason’s first wife, Cindy — a dedicated police officer — was plagued by severe mental health struggles and trauma until she tragically ended her life. Suddenly a single dad of two small daughters, Jason thought he could simply "love them to healing." Jason coped by “drinking himself silly,” not understanding the connection to his grief until after becoming sober.In 2023, Jason’s nineteen-year-old daughter, Chloe, passed away after her own agonizing battle with mental health. Jason opens up about his consecutive, profound losses and how his grief since losing Chloe is different from his experience after her mother’s death. On his Substack, “Man Down, “ Jason shares the exact things he learned after losing his wife and daughter, and from coaching thousands of men. Every week, he breaks down what really happens when you get knocked on your ass and how to grow through it without losing your self-respect. I highly recommend checking it out.Connect with Jason MacKenzie:Substack: Man DownConnect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

In this episode, I was joined by another member of our extended Pacific Palisades family, Michael Geller. Like any family, we don’t share all the same political views. Mike and I vote differently. But it doesn’t matter. When we sat down, our superficial differences melted away. We became so immersed in conversation about life and loss that we never discussed the LA mayoral race (which we’d been debating online).Mike is an OG Palisades dude. He was born and raised in the town that our family joined in 2011. He grew up surfing, riding motorcycles and idolizing his older brother and best friend, Damon. Our audience will remember Episode 5 with Damon’s wife, Lili Geller. Mike took us back to the night when he was surfing with Damon under a full moon and suddenly couldn’t find him. When he paddled in, Damon was face down on his board, not breathing. Despite doing everything humanly possible to save his big brother, Mike said goodbye to Damon on the beach, where they’d surfed together throughout their lives. It was the first time Mike had been face-to-face with death.Two weeks later, Mike and his wife, Jaimie, held her father’s hands as he died from a rare form of leukemia. Jaimie and Mike have been together since they were teenagers. Her father was an extremely important person in Mike’s life. Mike found himself in an obliterated place because of these profound losses, which was further complicated by the ensuing Covid-19 pandemic.When light finally started to emerge through the darkness, Mike, Jaimie, and their three sons built their dream home. They’d recently moved in when the Palisades fire burned it to the ground. The Gellers also lost their business, Jaimie Geller Jewelry, in the location where Mike’s family had been in business since 1982.Mike takes us inside the fire's immediate aftermath, sharing the surreal story of recovering his business safe — full of melted gold and jewels — just days after the destruction. We talk frankly about the exhausting, ongoing battles with insurance adjusters, the false myth that our community is "just fine" and doesn't need help, and the incredible grassroots support that is allowing Jaimie Geller Jewelry to reopen this July.Last December, Mike’s mother passed away following a two-year battle with pancreatic cancer. After a grueling medical trial, she utilized the California End of Life Option Act to choose her final day. Mike once again finds himself in an obliterated place, asking, “How much more can I take?”We’re all carrying more pain than most people realize. The human experience is to suffer. It’s infinitely more bearable when we lock arms and lift each other up during the long journey home.Connect with Michael Geller:Website: www.jaimiegellerjewelry.com Connect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

In this episode, I am honored to sit down with my friend Libby Boyce, whose only son, actor and philanthropist Cameron Boyce, passed away suddenly in 2019 at the age of twenty from a nocturnal seizure. To my children, Cameron was a bright, joyous presence on their favorite shows like Jessie and Descendants. To Libby, he was a deeply loyal, affectionate, and philanthropic soul who loved his village fiercely.Libby and I map out the uncharted terrain of the "obliterated place" that mothers inhabit after the unthinkable happens. We talk candidly about the survival instinct that leads you to find other grieving parents who want to thrive, rather than just shrivel up. Libby shares the massive adjustments couples face in a marriage when both partners are circling the drain, emphasizing the vital importance of giving each other grace and respecting vastly different timelines and methods of processing pain.We also pull back the curtain on the medical realities of epilepsy. Libby shares the hard-won wisdom that drove her to spearhead The Cameron Boyce Foundation, discussing the hidden risks of nocturnal seizures, the hormonal vulnerabilities of the teenage years, and the crucial distinction of seeking care from an epileptologist. This is a deeply raw, life-affirming conversation about transmuting the ultimate tragedy into a legacy of medical advocacy and profound, enduring love.Connect with Libby Boyce & The Cameron Boyce Foundation:Website: thecameronboycefoundation.orgInstagram: @thecameronboycefoundation / @libboyceConnect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

Children can serve as our greatest teachers if we let them. My guest in this special episode is my ten-year-old son, Eli William Steinsapir. A boy with the sweetest smile and a glint of playful mischievousness in his eye, Eli brings sunshine everywhere he goes. If you met him, you’d never guess what he’s been through. Eli lived the first years of his life in the dark shadow of my battle against breast cancer. Just as our lives were beginning to stabilize, the Covid-19 pandemic hit. After months of sheltering in place and attending Zoom preschool, Eli’s favorite person in the world, his older sister, Molly, went on a bike ride with her best friend one morning and never came home. Molly died in the hospital two weeks later. Four years later, our town of Pacific Palisades burned down, including Eli’s elementary school.Despite these immense losses, Eli views the world with positivity. He sees what’s there instead of what’s missing. Eli has a gentle spirit, always kind and quick to apologize when he makes a mistake. During our conversation, we spoke about his memories of the Palisades fire, the terrible stress of watching our town burn, and what it was like to go back afterwards. Eli also shared some of his dreams of Molly where they visit inside of old memories, and the secret comfort of reading her books at night when the lights are supposed to be out.Our conversation was also lighthearted and funny. Eli offered his strong opinion that we all should have a four-day school and work week and life advice on thoroughly enjoying each Saturday, the best day of the week. Eli is currently writing and illustrating his first book, which he’s calling “A Kid’s Life.” Expect to see it on your bookstore shelves in the future!Connect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

In this episode, I am honored to sit down with my Rabbi and dear friend, Daniel Sher, from Kehillat Israel (KI) in the Pacific Palisades. Rabbi Sher has been a steadfast anchor for our congregation, even as he navigates his own "obliterated place" — having personally lost his family home and all their belongings in the devastating Palisades fire. We sit down to discuss the profound psychological genius embedded within Jewish mourning rituals, from the complete surrender of Shiva to the gradual re-entry of Shloshim. Rabbi Sher shares a beautiful framing of grief as a series of heavy items we carry forever in our pockets; we do not hold them out for the world to see at all times, but their weight permanently alters how we carry ourselves. We also talk about his perspective on rebuilding a community after a disaster with deep intentionality, choosing never to "waste our tragedies." Our conversation also turns to the complex, painful realities facing the Jewish people in the wake of October 7th. We explore the profound alienation of feeling iced out by former allies in social activist circles, the historical burden of being a "universally welcoming tradition forced to choose between safety and welcome," and the true definition of "chosenness"—not as a gold star of privilege, but as a sacred obligation to carry the weight of historical burden while fiercely choosing to see the light anyway.Connect with Rabbi Daniel Scherr: Kehillat Israel Podcasts Connect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

After the tragic loss of his teenage children, Ruby and Hart, in a drunk driving accident, Colin Campbell found most books on grief unhelpful. I had a similar experience, with the exception of the one that Colin wrote shortly after Ruby and Hart died, when his grief was raw and often felt unbearable. Finding the Words: Working Through Profound Loss with Hope and Purpose resonated deeply. It made me feel less alone at a time when nothing made sense. Colin offers practical advice. His practice of always saying "yes" to invitations, like joining someone on a walk, even when he felt like staying under the covers, encouraged me to avoid isolation. When I wanted to succumb to despair, I remembered Colin's approach of active grieving. For example, Colin and his wife, Gail, gave friends their "grief spiel" whenever they came to visit. They told them exactly what they needed at that point in their grief. It sounds obvious, but nobody does it! Including my husband and me, until I read "Finding The Words." It helped us and our friends.Like my husband, Colin found solace in the Jewish rituals around death and mourning. Although I converted to Judaism over a decade earlier, I hadn't experienced the death of anyone Jewish before we lost Molly. Colin helped me to better understand and appreciate them. Doing a prescribed ritual at a time when you can't think is helpful. Being held by your community is essential.Most of all, I loved talking with Colin about our kids, Ruby, Hart and Molly. It was an honor to spend an hour with him. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.Connect with Colin Campbell: Instagram: @colincampbellwriterWebsite: https://colincampbellauthor.com/colin/ Connect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

Lyle Green and I have lived across the street from each other for fifteen years, but there were parts of his story I never knew until we sat down for this conversation. We are "COVID family"—neighbors who became extended family during the pandemic and the aftermath of the accident that took Molly’s life.In this episode, Lyle shares the vivid memories of losing his father at just four years old and the unique anxiety of approaching age 46—the same age his father was when he suffered a fatal heart attack. We discuss the "obliterated place" his mother navigated as a young widow and the perspective Lyle gained after losing his home and all his belongings in the Pacific Palisades fire.Lyle also opens up about the heart health journey that led to his own recent blockage discovery, the profound grief of losing his three beloved cats, and why he chooses to wear a bracelet with Molly's name every single day. This is a raw conversation about the "tender heart" behind a tough exterior and what it means for men to finally speak the language of loss.Connect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

Grief often feels like a thousand paper cuts; your person’s favorite food in the grocery store that you pick up and put back, a song on the radio that suddenly transports you back to happier times, when they were still here, seeing their peers achieve new milestones while they’re forever the age they were when they died.In this episode, I sit down with my friend Carla Liber, who lost her 16-year-old daughter Sami on August 8, 2024 — shortly before her junior year. We met through the particular heartbreak of losing young daughters, girls right on the edge of becoming who they were meant to be. Just four months after Sami’s passing, Carla and her family created the SAMI Foundation (Supporting Art, Music, and Imagination) — a way to honor their grief and keep Sami’s spirit alive through creativity. This conversation is about what it means to keep showing up, for your surviving children, your marriage, and yourself, when everyday moments become reminders of who isn’t here. To learn more about the SAMI Foundation and see Sami’s artwork, visit thesamifoundation.orgConnect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial Substack: Transforming Pain Into PurposeThe Molly Steinsapir Foundation

I’ve always thought of myself as an alchemist, transmuting what remains after destruction into something new. But after losing my daughter, Molly, that idea was no longer abstract. It became survival.In this episode, I’m joined by my dear friend Nikki Mark, the first person I met who had also lost a child, and the person who showed me it was possible to keep going.After her 12-year-old son, Tommy, passed away suddenly in his sleep, Nikki made a decision: she would not stay stuck in her grief. Instead, she approached her healing the same way she built companies — as something to study, test, and rebuild from the ground up.This conversation is about what happens after everything you knew is gone, and how you begin to choose what comes next.Connect with Nikki Mark:Instagram: @healingwithnikkiWebsite: www.nikkimark.comTM23 Foundation:www.tm23foundation.orgConnect with Kaye Steinsapir: Subscribe on YouTubeInstagram: @teammollyofficial The Molly Steinsapir Foundation

Ricky Saxena was a 22 year-old senior in the optical engineering program at the University of Arizona when he suddenly collapsed during labs, just weeks away from graduation. Ricky was rushed to the hospital, where doctors discovered his oxygen levels were dangerously low and his heart was enlarged by six times the normal size. Testing eventually revealed that Ricky suffers from pulmonary hypertension.The disease is rare, with only 500-1000 new cases diagnosed annually in the US. It's 3 times more frequent in women, and most prevalent in those aged 75-79. Ricky was a fit, young man preparing to take on the world after graduation. It was like a scene from Grey's Anatomy when a team of doctors gravely informed Ricky and his family that he suffers from an incurable disease that is destroying his ability to breathe.Ricky knows that he's not a statistic and doesn't live his life based on dire stories and statistics on the internet. Still, they are dire. Ricky was horrified when he first Googled pulmonary hypertension. While Ricky has a deeper appreciation for life and his amazing family, friends and partner, he battles grief (his own and sorrow over theirs), and feelings of helplessness amidst intense physical pain.Ricky and I met because were seated next to each other on a plane. With 8.3 billion people on the planet, I believe that our paths were meant to cross. Ricky's voice should be widely heard. Ricky explained that there is just so much he wants to say. He wants to show people that he's more than a terminal diagnosis, and inspire people to face their own challenges with a strong mindset. Follow Ricky on Instagram and TikTok at @rsaxdaily. Ricky reminds us of the miracle of breath, and the gift of a functioning body.As you'll see, Ricky lives a full life, working in his chosen field, cherishing each moment with his loved ones, never taking a single one for granted. I'm grateful for our friendship and the opportunity to share his story.

You may know me because we're friends. Or former colleagues. You may have stumbled upon my social media feed after we lost our 12-year-old daughter, Molly, in a tragic accident in 2021. Perhaps you just discovered this new podcast. No matter how we're connected or our level of familiarity, aspects of my story will surprise you. I feel like I've lived several lifetimes in my 48 years. In the immortal words of the Grateful Dead, what a long, strange trip it's been.I live in the present moment because the past is too painful and the future too uncertain. I've developed a sense of adventure as I ride the waves of life. I've stopped taking it all so seriously and resisting what's outside of my control.Please note that this episode contains descriptions of violence and abuse. It's important to remind the audience that these are my personal recollections. Others who were present for the events that I describe will undoubtedly remember them differently. Memories fade. What remains lodged in a person's mind is as unique as a fingerprint.I don't soften the hard edges of the truth, even when it hurts. My goal is transparency. Terrible things have happened to me, along with beautiful, awe-inspiring moments. It's all part of being alive. Thank you for witnessing my humanity, unfiltered.

At age 11, Nafiz Cekirge's daughter, Eliza, began displaying sudden and alarming symptoms of anorexia and OCD. The Cekirges went from being a typical upper-middle class family to navigating a medical crisis that is not well understood. Eliza spent most of her teenage years at numerous in-patient treatment facilities throughout the country. Despite receiving the highest level of care, the support of her family and her own desire to live a "normal" life at home, finally free from the grip of the disease, Eliza is still fighting. It's often one step forward, two steps back.Nafiz candidly shares what life's been like for his family in the past 7 years since Eliza's diagnosis. Despite their enormous challenges, the Cekirges increase awareness of the severity of eating disorders and raise critically needed funds through the Eliza J. M. Cekirge Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit. Please consider making a tax-deductible donation.Hi, I’m supporting this fundraiser on GoFundMe. If you can, please consider supporting by donating or sharing the link. Every bit of support makes a huge difference: https://gofund.me/abdd5ff01A heartfelt thank you to Nafiz, Eliza and their family for helping others to better understand eating disorders and making treatment more accessible. Eliza, you have a lot people whom you haven't met rooting for you. We send you and your family so much love.

Lili Geller's husband, Damon, died unexpectedly at age 48.Damon was the most alive person that many of us ever knew. He was passionate. In his love for Lili and their kids, Delilah and Jonah, and his extended family and friends. In his athleticism. Damon physically challenged himself - skateboarding, surfing, basketball, jiu jitsu, table tennis - you name it, Damon rocked it! In the way he moved through the world. Damon understood how to LIVE, not merely exist.Damon was hilarious. I loved being around him because he never failed to crack me up. He was a fixture in our town of Pacific Palisades, where he grew up. Everyone knew and liked Damon. He could frequently be found in the village, having animated conversations over lunch, sharing the latest thing he was into. Damon was an avid learner. Lili shared that he sometimes stayed up all night reading. When he found something that excited him or worked well, he wanted to share it with everyone. I'll never forget when I first met Damon, he fervently explained that I needed to purify our drinking water with black mica, even showing up at our door that evening with a bag of the mineral powder and showing me how to use it. He was so convincing that I naturally followed his advice! Damon loved sunsets, date nights with Lili at his favorite sushi restaurant, and especially being a hands-on dad to his kids. Damon died while surfing under a full moon with his brother, Mike, on December 20, 2018. Reflecting on the night that obliterated her world, Lili recalls a number of unusual things happened that day. The Universe seemed to whisper that time was fleeting. Read more about Damon here - https://palisadesnews.com/death-of-pali-surfer-wake-up-call/.Lili said that it was like a switch flipped. Damon was there and suddenly gone. In an instant, Lili became a widow, solely responsible for Delilah and Jonah. The shock and grief was physical. The sudden absence of Damon's enormous energy left a gaping void in their home and throughout our entire community. The difficulties were compounded by the isolation of the subsequent pandemic.Lili hadn't been working outside the home when Damon died. Through sheer grit and love of her kids, Lili managed to keep them in their family home. She returned to work as a real estate agent. Lili built a successful business and is helping many buy and sell properties in the wake of the Palisades fire. She’s the best! We wouldn't be in our current home without her connections, expertise and patience negotiating our lease in a competitive market. If you live in LA, Lili is the woman for all your real estate needs. Lili’s information can be found here - https://www.compass.com/agents/lili-geller/.Delilah and Jonah are thriving, with Delilah preparing to attend her dream university this fall. As Lili said in our conversation, over the past 7 years, she's gone from being a "shaking leaf" after Damon died to embracing life again and growing her business. Lili is one of my favorite people - she always looks flawless, can whip up an amazing meal for a crowd and make it look effortless, and is a gift to everyone in her orbit. Lili will drop whatever she's doing when her family, friends or dogs need her. The life that Lili has created in her obliterated place is beautiful. Damon, always her biggest cheerleader, is somewhere not far off, pumping his arm, urging her to keep going. Lili writes, "The one thing I do know from my grief journey (and everyone’s is different) is that I was loved by Damon and he was loved by us. All the negatives that can build up in a lifetime don’t necessarily get forgotten but they just no longer carry any value and all that’s left is love. And love never dies. Never."

Elizabeth Kopple began writing creative nonfiction after her 18-year-old son Henry was killed on his first day of college in 2022. Elizabeth wrote in an essay published in the Huffington Post, "in an instant, every expectation for our family and our future was obliterated."I met Elizabeth at her family's home shortly after Henry's funeral. In our conversation on the podcast, Elizabeth explained that she felt an urgent need to meet another grieving parent because she couldn't figure out how she was supposed to get up in the morning, and needed another person who understood to tell her. Her brain was overwhelmed with shock and pain.Grief is as unique as our losses. But it's essential to meet others who've experienced a version of our unfamiliar new reality; to see them on their feet, a bit further down the path. While there's no singular way forward, other grieving parents showed me paths that they took. They gave me hope. Part of my healing involves paying it forward for newly bereaved parents. I'm gratified by ripple effects, the ways in which someone whom I've helped eventually reaches back and takes the hand of a parent whose world has just been shattered. I know it makes our kids proud. In the three and half years since I first met Elizabeth, she's discovered her own way forward. Elizabeth shares her experiences on Substack and has written a memoir about Henry's loss. She helps to moderate a group for grieving parents. Elizabeth fosters our community. I'm proud to be part of her circle. I highly recommend Elizabeth's Substack, Channeling Grief - https://channelinggrief.substack.com/. Her viral Huffington Post essay can be found here - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/son-college-death-freak-accident-grief_n_690505f2e4b0060501ac2dadYou can also learn more about college campus safety at https://coreysafetyact.org/ and https://collegesafetycoalition.net/.

Jill Lipsky is a lifelong Palisadian, a teacher, and one of my favorite people. She lost her brother, Darren, to fentanyl poisoning while their father was undergoing open heart surgery. Darren had been battling addiction. Jill was the person in her family who took care of everyone and tried to save him. Their parents died within the next year, during the pandemic, leaving Jill as the sole keeper of their memories.Jill was unable to find a support group for sibling loss. Because her parents died during the pandemic, it wasn't possible to have a service for them. We spoke about the need for grief to be witnessed. Read Jill's beautiful obituary for her dad, Bud Ennis, on my Substack, Transforming Pain Into Purpose - https://kayesteinsapir.substack.com/.Grief and love are intertwined. We grieve their losses deeply because we love them infinitely. It was wonderful to hear Jill's happy memories of Darren and her parents. We want to talk about our loved ones who've passed. Jill also spoke about the undeniable signs she receives from Darren in spirit and how their relationship continues and evolves.The Palisades fire compounded Jill's losses. Her family home burned down, along with her rental property, a source of income. Jill is nevertheless preparing to return home to the Palisades. Her family will be one of the first to return to their neighborhood, which is where she grew up.While living with grief, Jill approaches life with an open heart, generosity of spirit and fun-loving nature. Her Obliterated Place becomes more beautiful with each passing day, a testament to her resilience and love of her family.

Kaye and her "breastie," Suzanne, reflect on the ups and downs of their breast cancer journeys as young moms. Suzanne describes her family history of cancer, tragic losses of loved ones, facing her own cancer battle at age 31 with a 16-month-old baby, and how she heals by helping others who are battling the disease. Thirteen years post-diagnosis, Suzanne continues to create a beautiful life in her obliterated place. Join us for a heartfelt, funny, and hopefully inspiring chat! Suzanne Baruch Asherson is ambassador for Sharsheret. For more information about Sharsheret and the work they do please visit their website here: https://www.sharsheret.org

Kaye Steinsapir has faced enormous challenges with resilience and grace. Her heart has been broken in innumerable ways - by neglect and abuse as a child, struggling her entire life with family members consumed by addiction, battling breast cancer as a young mom of 3, the tragic death of her 12-year-old daughter, Molly, followed by the destruction of her town in the Palisades Fire. Kaye refuses to succumb to despair. Instead, she shares her life with authenticity and vulnerability, inviting others to share their grief alongside her. In the inaugural episode of the Obliterated Place, Kaye explains the meaning of the show's title, shares her intentions and creates space for all the brokenhearted.