PODCAST · business
The Overthinkers
by Lynette Wong & Shann Biglione
From big strategy questions to everyday marketing life realities, The Overthinkers is a weekly conversation between two strategists: Lynette Wong (Brand consultant and ex-Head of Strategy at Ogilvy NY) and Shann Biglione (co-founder and product lead + ex CSO at Publicis). It is for those who like to (over)think about business, marketing and strategic planning, with delightful guests occasionally joining. PS: you might have followed us of heard of us when the podcast was co-hosted by Rachel Mercer! She will keep joining us occasionally, as we continue overthinking with Lynette and Shann. Available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Episodes
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What Does It Take To Win As A Challenger?
Winning as a challenger means accepting that the odds are poor and going anyway. This episode works through what separates the ones who pull it off: the delusional belief needed to hold a team through the years nobody agrees with them, the honesty of naming a category taboo everyone privately...
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What Makes Reframes So Powerful For Brands?
The oldest trick in strategy is telling you that it's not X, it's Y — worn enough by now that AI produces it on autopilot, and still one of the most useful things anyone in a brief can do. This episode is about what separates a reframe that lands from one that smells like nonsense: how far the…
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What Is The Worth Of Superfans?
Super fans are where every conversation about belonging eventually lands, and where marketers most reliably fool themselves. This episode weighs what that small, loud fraction of a customer base is really worth: the co-creation and feedback loops that make them genuinely valuable, the…
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How Do Brands Foster Belonging?
Belonging is one of the oldest drivers there is: the tribal brain sorts us from them in under a tenth of a second, and will do it on the strength of a coin toss. Brands keep asking how to build some. This episode works through what that means in practice — why belonging sits between people rather...
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Why Can't AI Create A Brand’s Voice? With Vikki Ross
Vikki Ross spent most of last year believing the headlines that said AI was coming for copywriters, pondering whether what she loved doing most could be automated. She started a podcast specifically to ask industry leaders how they were replacing creatives with AI, and got the same answer from...
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What Universal Human Truths Can Marketers Tap Into?
David Rock's SCARF model says five drivers shape behavior from childhood onward — status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, fairness — and Lynette maps each one onto the brands that built themselves on it. Shann thinks the framework is useful, and pushes for something more primal: our…
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Is AI Showing Us We're Optimizing The Wrong Things? With Jennifer Fuqua
Jennifer Fuqua has spent twenty years inside innovation — at frog, at Fjord, at Ogilvy Consulting, and now as Senior Director of Innovation at M+C Saatchi Consulting — and she's noticed the brief never really changed: faster, cheaper, more certain. This episode asks whether that was ever the…
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What Should Marketers Learn From History? With Mark Rukman
Mark Rukman joins Shann and Lynette to argue that marketing keeps overlooking its most useful lens: history. Drawing on cultural topography, pace layers, and a habit of thinking in thousand-year windows, Mark makes the case that the shift toward creator culture is less a fad than a rewiring on…
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Why Are We Still Debating Distinctiveness Vs Differentiation?
Why is the marketing industry still arguing about differentiation versus distinctiveness, a decade after Sharp and Ritson first drew the lines? Lynette makes the case for a simple split: differentiate the product, make the brand distinctive. Shann mostly agrees, right up until they get to a can…
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How Do You Get Better At Changing Behavior? With Heather Watson
Heather Watson has spent her career walking backwards through the behavioral funnel: attention and consideration at Ogilvy, the use phase at Dell, and now habit formation and AI adoption at Newmark Consulting Group. She makes the case that most companies treat behavioral science as a spice rack…
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What's Worth Changing, And What Changes Us? With Tom Goodwin
Tom Goodwin joins the show, and for someone who's built a career as a "futurist," he spends most of the hour arguing for the things that refuse to change. We get into why marketing has quietly split into two industries that no longer speak the same language, why the obsession with measuring...
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What Does a Pastor Know About Desire That Marketers Don't? With Michael Rudzena
This week we sit down with a very atypical guest: Michael Rudzena, founding pastor of The Good Shepherd in Gramercy Park. The conversation was fascinating. It started with the exploration of desire — where it comes from, who gets to have it, and what happens when an entire industry is built on...
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Should Strategists Be Generalists?
Shann has a strong take on this one: strategists should never specialize by channel, and why a "TikTok strategist" makes him wince. Lynette pushes the conversation into David Epstein's Range, the split between wicked and kind environments, and why the deep-generalist path is its own kind of...
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Should Marketers Cultivate Their Personal Brand?
Jonathan Mildenhall, former CMO of Airbnb, recently argued that your personal brand is your proof of concept — if you can't market yourself, you have no business marketing anyone else. Lynette and Shann don't fully agree, and they spend this episode working out why. They get into the real reasons...
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Should Marketing Lean More Into Reality To Sell Nowadays?
Most marketing is still selling the SUV driver racing across open terrain, while the actual buyer is dodging potholes in Brooklyn. In this episode, Shann and Lynette dig into one of advertising's oldest questions: when does the fantasy work, and when does it backfire? They trace the line from...
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Does The Ad Industry Have A White Savior Problem? With Marvin Miranda
Marvin Miranda — Global Head of Brand and Creative Strategy at Accenture Song — joins Shann and Lynette to ask a question the industry doesn't love sitting with: is there a bit of a white savior syndrome in our industry? They trace how Western agencies spread across Asia, what the knowledge...
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Why Should Marketers Favor Storytelling Over Statistics? With Dali Adekunle
Dali Adekunle — SVP Creative Director at Saatchi & Saatchi Health, Stella Adler conservatory graduate, and former director of patient relations at NYU Langone — joins Shann and Lynette to argue the case for storytelling over statistics. The conversation covers the griot tradition in sub-Saharan...
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What Weird Skills Can Help You Be A Better Marketer?
Acting, screenwriting, gaming, dance, gardening, running a volunteer website nobody got paid for. Shann and Lynette swap notes on the side-of-desk obsessions and unlikely hobbies that turned out to matter more in their marketing careers than a lot of formal training ever did. The conversation...
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Startup vs Big Brand: What Did Katya Kotlyar Learn Switching Sides?
Katya Kotlyar has moved through this industry in ways most people don't from small to big agency, some freelance, co-founding a cross-border donation startup with her sister (raising $2 million), and eventually winding it down before coming back to brand and startup strategy—often both at once.…
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Maxing: Danger Or Trend?
Is maxing just self-improvement with a rebrand — or something more sinister? Shann and Lynette unpack where the trend came from (hint: the manosphere), why the algorithm is partly to blame, and what it all means for brands trying to figure out which side to stand on. From jaw maxing to nona…
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Can You Be A Marketer And Be "Anti-Capitalist"?
Can you work in marketing — a job literally built around driving demand — and honestly call yourself anti-capitalist? Shann and Lynette try to find out. They start with definitions: what capitalism actually is, where anti-capitalism begins, and what gets lost when people conflate the two. From...
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What Makes People (And Us) Feel Significant?
We all want to matter. But in a world where the average person has 700 followers and every brand claims to be meaningful, what does significance actually look like — and can it scale? Shann and Lynette get personal about where they've genuinely felt it, some pushback on the idea that brands…
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Is AI Going To Kill Your Marketing Job?
Anthropic's latest report says 65% of marketing tasks are headed for AI replacement — making us the fifth most disrupted profession out of 800. Lynette came in hot with a confession: she literally built her own AI replacement in her last role at Ogilvy. Shann came in skeptical of the "AI won't...
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How To Transition Out Of An Advertising Career? With Rachel and Lynette
Nearly 200 episodes in, The Overthinkers is turning a page. This is Rachel Mercer's final episode as co-host — and the debut of Lynette, a former global strategy lead at Ogilvy, ethnographic researcher, insect farm co-founder, and current Vermont transplant who consults for small businesses at…
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When Do You Say "Enough"? With Rob Campbell
This wonderful episode was recorded over a year ago with the legendary Rob Campbell, CSO at Colenso in Auckland. Rachel and Shann were planning to publish this as part of a last series of guests, but for a variety of reasons couldn't get to it. Together with Rob, they explore what satiety can…
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Can 1st Party Data Save Digital Advertising?
With the demise of the cookie monster and the supreme reign of a few internet giants, a lot of brands placed their bets on building first party data. Is that really the way of the future, and can brands sustainably grow without a strong 1st party data strategy anymore?
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Are CMOs A Dying Breed?
“You’re Dead In 18 Months Or Less” - Scott Galloway's ominous predictions for CMOs last week brought about a slight disturbance in the force. In this episode, we discuss the argument made against CMOs as we know them, as well as arguments for their possible redemption.
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Can We Stop The Industry From Advertising Fossil Fuel Companies? With Joe Cole
As global consciousness of the world's climate challenges rises, the role of advertising is being increasingly scrutinized. With large fossil fuel companies still using our services to project a greener image, the reality is that decades of deception have made them questionable clients to…
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Can Social Media Platforms Outlive The Generation That Defined Them?
Social Media platforms are often put on the map by (young) generations, but ageing with them seems to prove a difficult exercise. Does that generational gap make it harder, and what might allow them more trans-generational success?
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Is Strategy A Creative Or Rational Process?
Strategic planning inevitably requires the ability to rationalize information, but does great strategy require the ability to think creatively about it?
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How Would You Launch A New Agency Today?
If you had to launch an agency from scratch today, how would you do it? What strategy or approach would you use? How would you stand out from competitors? Would you try to stay small and niche, or try to create the next WPP? This week's question is courtesy of listener Ian Barnard.
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Is Rebranding Ever A Good Idea? With Jessica Lehmann Ash
On the heels of Twitter's catastrophic rebranding, we are joined by Co:Collective's Snr Strategy Director, Jessica Lehmann Ash, to discuss not only what went wrong there, but how and when to potentially get it right. Rebranding (or even renaming) should never be taken lightly, often costing...
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Can Marketers Be Good At All Forms Of Advertising?
Brand, performance, social, programmatic, CRM, influencer, sponsoring, media, creative... There is a myriad of specialties in the world of advertising, and marketers are increasingly expected to be able to navigate any of them. Is it possible for them to be good at both the long and the short of it?
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Threads Is Out... So What? With Grace Freeman
Threads has taken the world of social media by storm last week, growing in ways we'd never seen before. To discuss the platform's launch, its impact on marketers (and on Meta's product teams!), we're joined by Grace Freeman, Strategy Director and social media expert at Barbarian. The chance to...
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Is Barbie Revolutionizing Movie Marketing? With Moshe Isaacian
Barbie has been taking the film industry by storm - and the marketing community has noticed! This week we're joined by Moshe Isaacian, Brand Strategist, to talk about what's great about this campaign, and how it may rekindle a flame that has been somewhat lost in entertainment marketing.
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Does Advertising Even Work At All?
A couple of years ago, Freakonomics discussed research that show zero to negative correlation between advertising and market effects. Apparently, marketers have been wasting all this money for nothing. During this episode, Rachel and Shann discuss the merits of the findings, and whether it...
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How Can Young Marketers Find Their Voice Alongside Veterans? With John Lyons
Between the loud voices of our industry and the stress of being judged for what you say, finding your voice on public forums can be intimidating for younger marketers. We're joined by John Lyons, Business Director at Gasp! to discuss how new voices can emerge, whether it be on their own or the...
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Who put client services in charge?! With Marina Biglione
We often talk about strategy and creative, yet client services are often the ones running the show and taking the top leadership position. To discuss what it takes to be an account leader, and whether it's right for them to take those business leadership roles, we are joined by Marina Biglione,...
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Can Ad Agencies Still Build Differentiated Cultures?
As talent ebbs and flows in incestuous fashion between agencies that are increasingly large in size and geographic footprint, establishing an agency culture seems like a rare oddity. How are agency cultures established, and how can they be built in this day and age?
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Have The Rules Of Loyalty Changed?
The debate over acquisition vs loyalty has rocked the marketing industry over the past 10 years. While loyalty is everywhere, how it is managed has raised a lot of question. But as we see the rise of digital ecosystems, are the rules changing?
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Ad-Supported Or Subscription Model, Which Will Win?
For a while, subscription models were all the rage. Now, ad-supported is making a comeback. Is one better than the other, and what considerations should businesses take before going for one or the other (or, both)?
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How Is Generative AI Impacting Advertising?
Generative AI is this year's buzzword. But unlike those who preceded it, the applications are wide and many, capturing a lot of people's imagination. This week, we discuss how the technology might change the way we work and do business in the world of advertising.
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Is Parenting Compatible With A Career In Advertising?
Advertising is increasingly a young person's game. Are the hardships of parenting one of the reasons why? And could advertising agencies approach this differently? Rachel and Shann share their thoughts as two new parents facing the reality of mother and fatherhood.
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Will Calls To Boycott Hurt Bud Light?
Bud Light experienced pretty severe backlash after putting the face of influencer Dylan Mulvaney on its cans (and on TikTok). As the brand tried to explore its new identity away from what it called "fratty humor", did they make a strategic mistake or were they just not prepared enough for what...
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Are Marketers More Prone To Grifters?
Snake oil salesmen, grifters, poseurs... There doesn't seem to be a shortage of people abusing our aspiration for what's shiny and new and our disdain for what's established ("everything has changed! Listen to my miracle solution!"). Is that really an issue in marketing, and are we, as a...
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What Went Wrong With Twitter Blue?
Twitter Blue has not been the success Elon Musk needed to defend the value of the social media giant - at least not yet. What has been plaguing it, and does it have a path forward?
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If Change Is A Constant, Why Do Most Transformations Fail?
We know how important business transformation is in consulting circles - it's on everyone's lips and every 10K filling. Considering how much change happens around us, it seems it would be a natural state of being, and yet, most times it's just a failure. Why is it so hard to transform when change...
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Should A Client Pitch When It Has A Successful Agency Relationship?
Every now and then, we see agencies having years of success with a client. And yet, inevitably, one day the client calls a competitive pitch. Is that a fair practice? And even if it is, is it a situation where the client has more to lose than to gain?
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Can You Be Good At Things You Don't Personally Enjoy?
Whether it's working on a category you don't consume nor like, or doing tasks that aren't your cup of tea, is it still possible to be good at what you do? And is it even advisable?
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Is AI Coming For Marketing Jobs?
If ChatGPT can write better than a copywriter, are people going to lose their jobs? Or is AI going to be the new standard for mediocrity, bringing a golden age where we strive for more? This week we wonder how much AI will impact our jobs, in the short and long term.
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
From big strategy questions to everyday marketing life realities, The Overthinkers is a weekly conversation between two strategists: Lynette Wong (Brand consultant and ex-Head of Strategy at Ogilvy NY) and Shann Biglione (co-founder and product lead + ex CSO at Publicis).
It is for those who like to (over)think about business, marketing and strategic planning, with delightful guests occasionally joining.
PS: you might have followed us of heard of us when the podcast was co-hosted by Rachel Mercer! She will keep joining us occasionally, as we continue overthinking with Lynette and Shann.
Available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
HOSTED BY
Lynette Wong & Shann Biglione
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does The Overthinkers have?
The Overthinkers currently has 193 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is The Overthinkers about?
From big strategy questions to everyday marketing life realities, The Overthinkers is a weekly conversation between two strategists: Lynette Wong (Brand consultant and ex-Head of Strategy at Ogilvy NY) and Shann Biglione (co-founder and product lead + ex CSO at Publicis). It is for those who like...
How often does The Overthinkers release new episodes?
The Overthinkers publishes regularly with 193 episodes available. Check the episode list for the typical release schedule.
Where can I listen to The Overthinkers?
You can listen to The Overthinkers on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts The Overthinkers?
The Overthinkers is created and hosted by Lynette Wong & Shann Biglione.
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