PODCAST · business
The Serving Second Podcast
by Toussaint Williams, PhD
The Serving Second Podcast with Dr. Toussaint Williams celebrates the unsung heroes of leadership—the associates, assistants, vice presidents, and right-hand leaders who make vision possible from the second chair. Not everyone wears the top title, but every leader carries weight. Through biblical insight, leadership lessons, and practical takeaways, discover how to win—even when you come in second. Subscribe and be equipped to lead with confidence, clarity, and courage.
Episodes
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Be Where Your Feet Are - E41
Be Where Your Feet Are Toussaint explores a simple but challenging idea: stop mentally living in the next season and fully engage the one you are in now. He argues that ambition is healthy, but absence is dangerous, because the current assignment is often where leadership, skill, and character…
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You're Not Starting Over - E40
Have you ever taken a break, lost your rhythm, or looked around and felt like everyone else was moving forward while you were standing still? After being away from the Serving Second Podcast for two weeks, I felt that pressure myself. I needed to catch up. I had lost momentum. Maybe I was falling...
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Journal Your Journey - E39
This solo episode to speaks directly to anyone serving in a season they did not choose. It names the tension of being faithful and frustrated at the same time, then reframes journaling as a tool for tracking God’s work, spotting patterns, and keeping perspective. Key topics You have permission to...
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Surrounded! - What do I do now? E-38
What Do I Do Now? You went to bed thinking everything was fine. You woke up surrounded. In this solo episode, Dr. Toussaint Williams walks through 2 Kings 6, the story of Elisha's unnamed servant, to answer the question every second-chair leader eventually asks out loud: what am I supposed to do...
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He Left Work at 5 PM Every Day for 34 Years and Still Got Promoted - E37
Your boss walks the floor at 5:15 checking who's still at their desk. Kevin Wayne Johnson made sure his chair was already empty, every single day, for over three decades in federal government leadership. He still made director. Here's how leading from the second chair taught him that presence at...
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Stop Waiting for Your Turn: The Real Meaning of Serving Second - E36
What if the seat you are waiting to leave is the very place where your leadership is being developed? In this special solo episode, Toussaint resets and reintroduces the heart of Serving Second. After months of conversations with high-performing leaders, he recognized that the movement had been...
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He Built Companies, Then Realized He Was the Problem - E35
Servant leadership is not soft leadership. It may be the most strategic way to get real results. In this episode Toussaint sits down with Kurt Uhlir for a direct conversation about leadership, humility, business outcomes, and the hard personal work required to become the kind of leader people can...
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The Science of Yes! - E34
The Science of Ethical Persuasion Second-chair leaders don't always have the final say — but the most effective ones know how to influence without authority. In this episode, Dr. Toussaint Williams sits down with ethical persuasion expert and keynote speaker Patrick van der Burght (Melbourne,...
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Vision is Easy - Execution Needs a #2! - E33
What does it really mean to serve second with excellence? Toussaint sits down with Derek Fredrickson, founder of The COO Solution, to talk about the power of operators, COOs, chiefs of staff, and second-in-command leaders who help turn big vision into real execution. Derek shares how he left Wall...
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Building Generational Wealth - E32
What if your money problem is not just about money? In this episode, Toussaint sits down with Albert Butler, CPA, to talk about financial literacy, family legacy, entrepreneurship, purpose, and the responsibility of building something that lasts beyond you. Albert brings nearly 30 years of...
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Leadership in the AI Age - E31
Most leaders think pressure reveals weak people. But what if pressure actually reveals weak team systems? In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams talks with Daria Rudnik about how second-chair leaders can build teams that click under pressure, navigate disruption…
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Stop Promoting Without Preparing - E30
What happens when a great employee gets promoted into leadership, but no one has prepared them to lead? In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams sits down with Rich Ashton, author of Growing Your Own: Common Sense Advice for Developing Leaders Within a Small Business,...
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What's the Platinum Rule??? - E29
What if high performance did not have to come at the cost of people? In this episode Toussaint sits down with Kathy Eastwood, CEO and creator of the E3 Leadership Code, to talk about what it really takes to lead from the second chair. Kathy brings years of experience as a Chief of Staff, Chief...
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Authenticity Matters - E28
Author Patty Hampton shares her journey of serving from the second seat, the importance of authenticity, influence, and listening in leadership, and how to thrive as a second chair leader. Discover practical insights on building trust, asking powerful questions, and leading with impact from a…
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The Power of Appreciation - E27
In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Paul White shares his extensive experience in leadership and the importance of appreciation in the workplace. He discusses the five languages of appreciation, how they differ from traditional employee recognition, and the misconceptions…
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Your Story is Your Cheat Code! - E26
Your story is your CHEATCODE!!! Toussaint sits down with Kirk Nugent for a powerful conversation on content, calling, service, and stewardship. Kirk is a digital strategist, media leader, missionary, coach, and content creator who helps people use their voice with clarity and purpose. They go...
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Leading Without the Title - E25
In this episode, Toussaint interviews Ron Reich, a seasoned leadership development expert. They discuss Ron's journey into leadership, the importance of making a difference in second chair roles, and the challenges faced in leadership development. Ron emphasizes the significance of…
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Leading after the Crisis - E24
Summary In this inspiring interview, Savio P. Clemente shares his profound journey through cancer, leadership, and resilience. Discover practical strategies for leading with authenticity, managing disruptions, and cultivating adaptive resilience to thrive beyond adversity. Keywords leadership,...
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The Enforcer! - E23
Ever wondered what it really takes to pull a seamless church service together? Spoiler alert — it’s way more than just creating a runsheet! In this episode, I sit down with the worship manager, Danita Jones, to reveal the behind-the-scenes magic that keeps the spiritual flow smooth, timely, and...
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From HR to ESPN? - E:22
Ever feel like you're stuck in the shadows or just playing a supporting role in life's grand play? Well, buckle up, because today’s episode is all about embracing that second seat — and turning it into a throne of influence, purpose, and potential! Kirk, aka The Seed Sower Coach, spills the…
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The Path to Clarity- E21
Clarity Starts With ME! In this episode, Dr. Toussaint Williams reflects on leadership from the second chair, emphasizing clarity, purpose, and practical strategies for leaders who serve without the final say. He shares insights from conversations with leadership expert Seth Yelorda and offers...
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Mastering Influence as a 2nd Chair Leader - E20
In this crossover episode, Toussaint and Adrienne explore the unique challenges and opportunities of second chair leadership, emphasizing influence, character, and strategic support to lead with impact from any position. They also discuss the significance of embracing unique gifts and fostering a...
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Embracing the Backbone Leadership Mindset - E19
In this episode, we explore the powerful concept of backbone leadership — serving in the second seat with confidence, clarity, and strategic communication. L. David Harris shares his journey, principles, and practical strategies for second chair leaders who want to make a first-place impact…
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Why Do Smart Leaders Stay Silent In Big Moments? - E18
Being quiet too long can cost you! Summary: Toussaint sits down with leadership guru Pierre Quinn for a powerful conversation on influence, confidence, and the courage to speak up when you are not the person at the top. Pierre breaks down how second-chair leaders often get stuck by over-focusing…
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Stop Leaving Potential on the Table - E:17
We all can benefit from more K.A.S.H.!!! Welcome Seth Yelorda, a leadership coach and renowned keynote speaker! We talked about the importance of vision clarity and leadership in the second chair role. Seth shares insights on personal and organizational clarity, the role of coaching, and the...
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How Karl Phillips Became ET's Backbone - Part 2
KARL IS IN THE BUILDING!!! This is part two of Toussaint's interview with Karl Phillips, known as the Bayesian sensation. They discuss Karl's journey from being an introverted support role to becoming a leader in his own right. Karl shares his experiences working with Eric Thomas, the importance…
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How Karl Phillips Became ET's Backbone - Part 1
WELCOME Karl Phillips - the Bayesian sensation to the Serving Second podcast! In this episode they discuss Karl's journey from Barbados to working with motivational speaker Eric Thomas, emphasizing the importance of support roles in achieving success. Karl shares his personal growth, the…
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The New Year Reset - 2026
In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Toussaint explores the concept of serving second as a leadership mindset. He discusses the challenges faced by those in supportive roles, the importance of emotional maturity, and the lessons learned from past experiences. The conversation emphasizes...
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How Kymone Became Everybody's Scottie
Toussaint interviews Kymone Hinds, a coach and mentor who specializes in helping others monetize their ministry. Kymone shares his journey from youth ministry to business coaching, emphasizing the importance of recognizing and nurturing the abilities of others. He discusses the joy of supporting...
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Your Vibe Attracts Your Tribe - Chanda Nunes-Henry
In this episode of the Serving Second podcast, host Toussaint Williams interviews Chanda Nunes-Henry, a vice president and executive secretary of a multimillion-dollar nonprofit. They discuss Chanda's journey in leadership, her experiences as a minority in a male-dominated field, and the…
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They Called YOU For A Reason! - Dr. Vandeon Griffin
Dr. Vandeon Griffin shares his journey as an associate youth director for the North American Division of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. He discusses the transition from a first chair leadership role to a second chair position, emphasizing the importance of teamwork, clear communication, and...
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Faith that Fights
Time to put up or shut up!!! Faith requires action! Summary In this conversation, Dr. Toussaint Williams explores the theme of faith in leadership, particularly focusing on the biblical figure Jonathan from 1 Samuel. He emphasizes that true faith requires action, often in the face of uncertainty...
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Unsung Heroes: Ava Willis-Barksdale
Serving Second at an HBCU - the Joys and Challenges! Mrs. Ava Willis-Barksdale shares her insights on the unique challenges and rewards of serving in a second chair leadership role. She discusses the duality of being a second, the importance of humility, and the joy found in supporting others.…
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Warriors Serve in Silence
Toussaint explores the challenges and rewards of serving in a secondary role. He emphasizes the importance of character, discipline, and the unseen work that builds strong leaders. Drawing lessons from historical figures like Admiral McRaven and Harriet Tubman, he highlights that true strength…
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What Myron Learned Leaving the Spotlight
Summary In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams engages in a heartfelt conversation with Dr. Myron P. Edmonds about the journey of second chair leaders and the importance of serving others. Myron shares his transition from pastoral ministry to focusing on men's...
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How to Stay Aligned When Everything Shifts
HAVE THE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS... Multiple times!!! In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams emphasizes the importance of clarity and alignment in leadership, particularly for those in second chair roles. He draws lessons from the biblical relationship between...
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Singing When the Song Isn't About You
How do you sing with the song is about someone else??? Summary In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint explores the theme of leadership from the second chair, emphasizing the importance of celebrating others' successes and the role of gratitude in leadership. Through the…
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Power Shared is Power Multiplied
If you can't share, you shouldn't lead! In this episode of Serving Second, Dr. Toussaint Williams explores the concept of leadership through the lens of Jonathan and David's relationship. He emphasizes the importance of giving away power, sharing resources, and the vulnerability that comes with...
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You Never Lose When You Serve
This episode explores the themes of leadership, service, and privilege through the story of Jonathan, the heir to Saul. He shares personal insights from his life as a middle child, emphasizing the importance of choosing service over competition. Keywords leadership, service, privilege, Jonathan,...
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You did not get the title. Now what?
How do you serve when you don't get the position? Is service based on position or purpose? In this the very first episode of Serving Second, Dr. Toussaint Williams explores the journey of individuals in second chair roles, emphasizing that being overlooked does not diminish one's value or…
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ABOUT THIS SHOW
The Serving Second Podcast with Dr. Toussaint Williams celebrates the unsung heroes of leadership—the associates, assistants, vice presidents, and right-hand leaders who make vision possible from the second chair. Not everyone wears the top title, but every leader carries weight. Through biblical insight, leadership lessons, and practical takeaways, discover how to win—even when you come in second. Subscribe and be equipped to lead with confidence, clarity, and courage.
HOSTED BY
Toussaint Williams, PhD
CATEGORIES
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Frequently Asked Questions
How many episodes does The Serving Second Podcast have?
The Serving Second Podcast currently has 40 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.
What is The Serving Second Podcast about?
The Serving Second Podcast with Dr. Toussaint Williams celebrates the unsung heroes of leadership—the associates, assistants, vice presidents, and right-hand leaders who make vision possible from the second chair. Not everyone wears the top title, but every leader carries weight. Through biblical...
How often does The Serving Second Podcast release new episodes?
The Serving Second Podcast has 40 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.
Where can I listen to The Serving Second Podcast?
You can listen to The Serving Second Podcast on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.
Who hosts The Serving Second Podcast?
The Serving Second Podcast is created and hosted by Toussaint Williams, PhD.
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