Episodes
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How Healthy Is Utah's Backcountry Culture?
What happens to a community when the mountains get more crowded but the snowpack gets thinner? Ski guide and avalanche educator Jenna Malone and IFMGA mountain guide Chris Brown join guest host Brooke Mauschund to dig into the state of Wasatch backcountry culture, how it's changed through the...
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Finding the Goldilocks Zone for Uncertainty in the Avalanche Forecast
The avalanche forecast is shot through with uncertainty. The variables of terrain, snow, and weather, dispersed across vast areas, are simply too numerous to fully account for. If that's the case, if there's just a lot we don't know, then how much should uncertainty be foregrounded in the…
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AI, Machine Learning, and the Value of Expert Intuition at the Utah Avalanche Center
In late winter, 2025, a new AI tool developed by the Utah Avalanche Center flagged a layer in the snowpack as posing a potential risk. Then, just days later, nearly two-dozen avalanches failed on that same layer. It was a powerful demonstration of the potential benefits of the Utah...
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Bill Glude Wants You to Ride Hard and Die Old
Bill Glude is something of a trans-Pacific snow monk, with a deep knowledge of the winter mountains in both Alaska and Japan. He's spent more than 40 years skiing some of the most scenic terrain in the world. In that time, he's helped compose a sermon on the virtues and sins of various snow...
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An Oral History of the Friends Who Keep the UAC Humming
The Utah Avalanche Center is more than just a corps of extraordinary forecasters. Since 1990, a group of dedicated, visionary, and hard-working people has helped the UAC expand its range and helped push it to the forefront of the industry. This episode, we're joined by all five men and women who...
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Brett Kobernick Knows It in His Bones: Nobody is Immune from Getting Killed in an Avalanche
Brett Kobernick's nickname may be "Kowboy," but he's actually something of a Leonardo da Vinci of the snow. A garage tinkerer who builds the tools he needs to better understand winter conditions, he's also an early adopter of the snow bike, and he helped invent the split-board. True story. Kowboy...
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Dave Garcia on Having and Having Not Loads of Info
If you were looking to move somewhere because you love to ski, Moab, Utah likely wouldn't be anywhere near the top of that list. Dave Garcia loves to ski. It's why he came to Utah in 2002. He spent 12 seasons skiing the Wasatch, then he moved to Moab, and not for the snow. But the thing is…
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Dave Kelly on the Nuances of Public Forecasting
Dave Kelly's career on snow has included stints forecasting for a remote narrow-gauge, trans-national railroad on behalf of the Alaska DOT. He's also put in time at Turoa, one of the largest ski areas in New Zealand. And for 16 years, he worked as a ski patroller at Alta. He joined the Utah...
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Craig Gordon and the Zen of Solo Touring
More often than not, UAC forecaster Craig Gordon heads into the backcountry alone. He loves it. the solitude. Moving at his own pace. Spending as much time as he wants, as much time as it takes to understand the snowpack. He also understands the risks involved in touring alone. Craig joins us to...
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Toby Weed on Sharing the Joys of Powder Snow
If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's snow. In his 20-plus years as a UAC forecaster for the Logan region, Toby Weed has seen snow's uniting effects. The Logan mountains boast an abundance of terrain, and for years, motorized and non-motorized users battled for the best slopes. But, Weed...
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Paige Pagnucco on Effective Messaging in Culturally Complex Terrain
There isn't any hard data on this, but it seems safe to say that Paige Pagnucco is one of very few people who are both full-time avalanche forecasters and MBAs. In fact, she may well be a group of one. Pagnucco, who forecasts for the Logan region, says that, while it may not seem like it at…
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Eric Trenbeath on the Communal Impact of a Tragic Avalanche
The La Sal Mountains of southeastern Utah erupt out of the surrounding red rock desert. They sport steep slopes and big alpine lines that just beg to be skied. But this is expert terrain, says UAC forecaster Eric Trenbeath. It's highly avalanche prone, especially in the heart of winter, when the...
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Greg Gagne on Developing a Conservative Mindset and Cultivating Community
Greg Gagne is a self-described conservative backcountry skier. His greatest satisfaction comes from putting in the work before entering avalanche terrain. He wants to know, as well as he possibly can, that the snow he's traveling on and around is stable. Greg joins us to explore how we grow our...
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Nikki Champion on Forecast Accuracy and Finding Your Way
UAC forecaster Nikki Champion knows first-hand the challenge of charting a career path in snow and avalanche science. She joins us to talk about how having role models and mentors that looked like her helped her find her way. We also talk about her recent ISSW paper evaluating the accuracy of the...
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Drew Hardesty on Stories, Storytelling and Safety Communication
This season, something a little different on the podcast. We want you to get to know the UAC forecasters, so, Drew is handing over the host's mic to producer Benjamin Bombard, and he'll be the one interviewing the crew. Drew's first at bat. He joins us to talk about how relaying valuable...
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Laura McGladrey on the Keys to a Long and Healthy Career in the Mountains
Laura McGladrey, the founder of the groundbreaking non-profit Responders Alliance, works with front-line teams who witness and experience traumatic events—law enforcement, fire, EMS, Search and Rescue. She crafts language and creates tools to help them foster mental well being and resiliency. As...
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Snow Monk Jerry Roberts on a Lifetime in the Mountains
Unlike a lot of snow and avalanche professionals, Jerry Roberts spent a fair amount of time hanging out around San Francisco, soaking up the Buddhist-infused literary scene of the '60s. He developed a deep affection for some very old school snow enthusiasts: Basho, Issa, Buson, and other...
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Chris Lundy on the Four-Letter Word of Decision Making
At the end of nearly every episode of the podcast, Drew asks his guests, "To what do you attribute your longevity?" The answer he hears more than any other: Luck. When he got the question as a guest on the show last season, it got Chris Lundy thinking. He ended up making a presentation at the…
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Laura Maguire on the Nuances of Navigating Complex Environments
Where and when does a situation go bad? It's easy to think that an accident is the result of a single bad decision. But as Laura Maguire tells it, to understand an accident, which can be read as a failure of decision making, you really need to examine the systemic influences and the progression…
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Brad Meiklejohn: Setting the Early Uptrack for the Utah Avalanche Center
A lifetime ago, back in 1981, Brad Meiklejohn was ski-bumming and working at Alta when he witnessed a full-depth avalanche on High Rustler. It was mesmerizing, and it changed his path in life. He went on to study snow and avalanches on the East Coast, moved back out West and joined what was then...
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How Do The Youngs Guns Manage Risk?
After five years of hosting the podcast, Drew Hardesty was curious about the mindset of the young guns just now cutting their teeth and testing themselves in very real, very consequential ski mountaineering terrain. Is the old guard wasting their time wagging their tongues and fingers about the...
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Grant Statham on How We Think About And Communicate Avalanche Risk
In the winter of 2002-03, 14 people were killed in a pair of large avalanches in British Columbia. Those horrific tragedies spurred Canada's national parks agency to find ways to better insure public safety in the winter mountains. That's where Grant Statham comes in. An accomplished mountain…
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Does Culture Eat Training for Breakfast?
It's been said that culture eats training for breakfast. In other words, you can take all the classes, read all the books, develop a fool-proof checklist and a dialed-in system, but when the snow falls, and when a social animal enters a high-risk environment, all that education and preparation…
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A Financial Adviser and a Heli-Ski Guide Walk Into a Bar
At first glance, financial advising and heli-skiing might not seem to have much if anything in common. But, think about it like this: Both take on clients who put a lot of money on the line, they put a lot of trust in their guides, and there are some heavy costs to getting it wrong. This time...
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Veteran Forecaster Don Bachman on the San Juan Avalanche Project
In the spring of 1971, Don Bachman walked into the mining town of Silverton, Colorado, with a mission, not quite from God, but from the federal government: Study avalanches in the San Juan Mountains. The Bureau of Reclamation had recently established a cloud-seeding program in the region, and it...
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Processing the Wilson Glade Accident
On the morning of February 6, two different groups totaing eight people went to ski in the Wilson Glade area of Alexander Basin in Millcreek Canyon. Both groups were ascending when the avalanche happened. Six people were caught and fully buried. Two of them survived. Four did not. In this…
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How Valuable Are Avalanche Airbags Really? - A Conversation with Dr. Scott McIntosh and Black Diamond's Andy Merriman
In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Scott McIntosh and Black Diamond's Andy Merriman to talk about, well first, good decision making, but then, in the event you get caught in an avalanche, how and why an airbag can potentially help you avoid the worst consequences. In particular, we're taking...
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Developing a Culture of Safety: A Conversation with Jeff Hambelton
Jeff Hambleton works with avalanche professionals from around the world and across disciplines to build avalanche education tools and train the next generation. In this episode: connecting to your audience; culture-shift after the Valentine's Day slide of '99 at Mt Baker and the Danny Woods...
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Drew's Blogcast: The Anthropology of Risk
Could our evolutionary history help explain why we enjoy putting our lives at risk?
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Managing Avalanche Risk, Managing Pandemic Risk: A Conversation with Dr. Angela Dunn.
Dr. Angela Dunn is the State Epidemiologist for the Utah Department of Health. In this episode: messaging the problem as you're learning about it; public safety and risk guidelines; cascading risks; marketing problems; the risk/reward balancing act; the single overriding communications objective;...
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Drew's Blogcast: No Exit, or Tragedy of the Commons
We're all in this together.
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AAI's Sarah Carpenter on the Gift of Avalanche Education
Sarah Carpenter is a co-owner of the American Avalanche Institute and a ski guide in the Tetons. In this episode: Giving backcountry users the keys to the castle; the evolution of avalanche education; snow science as equal parts science and voodoo magic; education vs air bag; checklists and…
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How Not to Be a Backcountry Mr/s. Magoo - A Conversation with Blase Reardon
Blase Reardon has been a backcountry avalanche forecaster in Ketchum, Aspen, Glacier National Park, and is now the lead forecaster for the Flathead Avalanche Center in northern Montana. On tap this episode: forecasting in data-sparse regions; the mysteries of wet snow; Mr. Magoo's close calls,...
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Drew's Blogcast: Drift into Failure
How is that we learn good lessons that we mind for a while before drifting into failure once again? Hint: It has to do with heuristics.
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The Art of Storytelling Through Film - A Conversation withTrent Meisenheimer
In the avalanche world, UAC forecaster Trent Meisenheimer is at the forefront of storytelling and communication through the use of video. Trent uses high-def cameras, drones, and cutting-edge video software to communicate the visceral realities of a field day in avalanche terrain or a recent...
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An Avalanche Forecaster, a Meteorologist, and an Economist Walk Into a Bar...
Here's a question: What's the goal of forecasting? Economist Peter Donner and meteorologist Larry Dunn are both retired from their respective careers predicting the future, and they join Drew to share what they know about the intricacies of forecasting. It may sound dry, but the economic concepts...
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Risk, Reward, and The Big Lie - A Conversation with Doug Workman
In this podcast, we sit down with Doug Workman. An alpine guide, Doug is the real deal when it comes international ski guiding. He's been taking risks on the snow since he was a toddler learning to ski at Powder Ridge in Connecticut. Since then, he has found many other places to experiment with...
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Drew's Blogcast - "Roping the Wind (Slab)"
What does a Eastern Utah rancher have in common with the risks of backcountry touring?
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Why Forecasting is Poker and Not Chess - A Conversation with Jenna Malone
During the day, Jenna Malone is a physicians assistant, but she moonlights as a ski patroller at Alta, a Powderbird guide, and an instructor with AAI. At this fall's Utah Snow and Avalanche Workshop, she gave a compelling presentation on why avalanche decision making is more like poker than…
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Drew's Blogcast - "The Devil and Daniel Webster"
What I want to know is this: Do we make a deal with Death when we play games with risk?
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Early Season Essentials - A Conversation with Bo Torrey
It's key to head into the early avalanche season with the proper mindset. In this podcast, we talk with UAC program director Bo Torrey. Bo talks about particular risks unique to the early season, tips and tricks for knocking the rust off your early season rescue skills, and charts out the path...
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Drew's Blogcast - "Low Danger"
On Saturday, January 5, the danger rating in the Salt Lake area went Low. As you'd expect, people got out after it. By the end of the day there were eight skier-triggered avalanches, with four people caught and carried in separate events, and one visit to the ER. In this episode, we put one of...
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Bringing People and Ideas Together - A Conversation with Lynne Wolfe
In this episode, we sit down with Lynne Wolfe. Lynne is a longtime mountain guide for both Exum and Jackson Hole Mountain Guides. She has taught innumerable avalanche courses for AAI, NOLS, and Yostmark and since 2005 she's been the editor of The Avalanche Review. Discussed in this episode:...
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Drew's Blogcast: "Stacking the Deck"
There's no telling when calamity or injury may strike, so what can you do to make sure you're prepared to act when they do?
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Wise Ones - Talking about Mentors with Eeva Latosuo & Aleph Johnston-Bloom
All the way from Alaska, Eeva Latosuo and Aleph Johnston-Bloom join Drew to talk about their research on the mentoring network that undergirds so much of the avalanche and snow science community. Discussed in this episode: what a mentorship is; how to find a mentor; who's mentoring who; why...
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Drew's Blogcast: "Shame and the Social Contract"
The importance of being open about avalanche involvements and near misses, and how we can cultivate a culture of learning, absolute transparency and non-judgment, regardless of individual risk tolerances. Put yourself in other people's shoes. Practice humility. Destroy shame!
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The Smartest Guy in the Room - A Conversation with Ian McCammon
In this podcast, we sit down with none other than Ian McCammon. Ian holds a PhD in mechanical engineering with an emphasis on robotics and sensory development and his avalanche research has focused on safety education, fracture mechanics, and the human factor. Discussed in this episode: The...
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Drew's Blogcast: I AM Dangerous
We can all agree that traveling in the backcountry is dangerous. Out in the mountains, we take risks and we push the odds. So, if the mountains are dangerous and risky, what does that make you?
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The Message and the Messengers - A Conversation with Alex Hamlin
Alex Hamlin is a partner at the marketing firm 7D8, and the former creative director at Black Diamond. Alex says that he works to create meaning, not content. He joins Drew to discuss: the power of stories; the critical importance of messaging; influencing behavior; honesty; the messenger's...
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Drew's Blogcast: "The Wisdom of Crowds"
Experts aren't always right. Oftentimes, groups are smarter than even the smartest people in them. We all have a role to play in the backcountry and observations to share.