Verse Talks

Jon Wubbushi is one of the most unconventional thinkers we've spoken to.After building companies, he became known for his AI-generated artworks before unexpectedly turning his attention to theoretical physics. Today he leads a research team working on what he believes is a new framework for understanding reality itself.In this conversation we discuss creativity, AI, quantum mechanics, consciousness, religion, death, morality, and why Jon believes the next decade could fundamentally change humanity.Whether you agree with his conclusions or not, it's a fascinating conversation about some of the biggest questions we can ask.Timestamps00:00 Introduction01:20 Why Jon keeps changing careers03:30 Becoming addicted to flow05:00 From entrepreneur to AI artist06:30 The trilogy of Jon's early AI artworks09:20 The question that led him into theoretical physics10:50 Quantum mechanics and the double slit experiment explained13:15 "We may have discovered how reality works"15:00 Information, consciousness and the foundations of reality18:10 Souls, consciousness and reincarnation22:20 Entering the world of science after becoming an artist26:40 Could this discovery change humanity?29:30 Spirituality, religion and why society feels more divided34:00 AI as a reflection of humanity35:40 Does the universe have an objective morality?38:15 What happens after death?41:40 Is God real?43:20 Are all religions describing the same thing?45:30 Why Jon stopped calling himself a Christian48:20 Aliens, consciousness and advanced civilizations50:15 Is Elon Musk human?51:15 Time travel, meditation and the Monroe Institute54:30 Are we living in a simulation?55:15 Jon's biggest lesson about life58:30 Why suffering gives life meaning1:00:30 The inspiration behind Jon's newest body of workEdit This EpisodeEpisode is Not LivePublish:Aug. 04, 2026 @ 5PMEditAdd a TranscriptAdd Chapter MarkersCreate a Visual SoundbiteMid-Roll PlacementsShare Link to EpisodeEpisode Share URLCopyView in websiteDirect Link to AudioCopyDownload MP3Embed Audio PlayerWhat's NewPlatform StatsRefer a FriendAbout

In this episode, Mat Dryhurst joins us to discuss how digital art has evolved over the past decade and where it's heading next.We talk about blockchain, NFTs, AI, and the idea of protocol art - works that are defined less by a single image or object than by the rules, systems, and networks that produce them. Along the way, we discuss collecting, curation, online communities, software as an artistic medium, and why some of the most important developments in contemporary art are happening outside traditional institutions.Timestamps00:00 – Introduction01:35 – Growing up in Kuwait & finding his way into art03:09 – Collaborating with Holly Herndon for two decades05:26 – Music, software and creative beginnings09:29 – Discovering Ethereum before it launched11:07 – DAOs, crypto and building new institutions14:00 – Why ambitious artworks take years to make17:50 – Building a practice outside the traditional art world20:06 – Making artworks that exist as real software25:54 – Artist vs Creator31:04 – Is autonomous art a productive lie?35:04 – Why we value art we don't always understand41:14 – Inside *The Call* and designing participatory artworks44:45 – Why they never create work for the market48:28 – AI, backlash and losing friends53:46 – The biggest misconceptions about AI58:18 – Oxford, AI policy and the future of regulation01:01:44 – Matt Dryhurst on NFTs01:07:25 – What NFTs got right01:12:30 – Crypto art, digital ownership and why it still matters01:18:05 – Building culture on the blockchain01:23:10 – Final thoughtsConnect with Matt Dryhurst:Twitterinstagram 

00:00 – Introduction00:45 – Dropping out of art school02:20 – Family, comics & collecting05:20 – Discovering NFTs06:00 – The birth of Drifella08:45 – Ethereum, Solana & finding a community12:20 – Why the Solana art scene exploded16:30 – Building the Drifella universe20:20 – Why Drifella 3 became a breakout moment24:00 – Why trading cards?27:00 – How Card NFT is made31:00 – Burning NFTs for physical artworks33:00 – Curating 100,000+ images37:30 – AI, intuition & making images42:00 – NFTs, galleries & the future of art45:40 – Collaborating with Parker Ito49:00 – Building a community online52:00 – What's next for Evil Biscuit?55:10 – Multiple artistic identities57:00 – Closing thoughts

Artist Ed Fornieles joins Verse Talk to discuss Borrowed Lives: Anon 2026, a  body of work exploring how the internet shapes identity.The conversation ranges from Tumblr and 4chan to memes, online belonging, gamer culture, masculinity, AI, and what it means to grow up in a world where images never stop arriving.Along the way, Ed discusses his wider practice, why online communities matter, and how visual culture quietly changes the way we think about ourselves.00:00 Introduction03:45 Introducing Ed Fornieles & Borrowed Lives: Anon05:45 How Tumblr inspired the project08:35 4chan, anonymity and internet culture12:00 Cell: recreating online communities in real life20:25 "The memes meme you"22:55 Why Borrowed Lives isn't a traditional narrative25:10 Growing up through images29:45 Building Anon: research, internet rabbit holes & image collecting34:40 Inside the artworks: grids, chapters and visual storytelling37:20 Why it's called Borrowed Lives39:45 Are online communities inherently dangerous?44:35 Masculinity, belonging and growing up online49:45 How the artworks are actually made53:00 Pepe, Wojak and the evolution of internet identity56:10 Future characters, AI and where the project goes next58:50 Raising teenagers in the internet age1:02:15 Final thoughts

00:18 - Welcome Trevor Paglen01:17 - Co-curating Zero 10 Basel03:34 - Beyond labels and distinctions05:36 - Blending traditional and digital audiences08:45 - A blockchain agnostic view11:44 - NFTs, legitimacy and cultural perception 15:08 - How the art world has shifted 18:00 - The collapse of the mid-tier gallery 20:45 - NFTs as an alternative path for artists  22:58 - Selecting artists for Zero 10 27:00 - Why digital galleries do fairs 31:00 - Presenting digitally first work in a physical context 32:29 - Verse as a cultural archive for the internet 35:00 - Art, collecting and cultural stigma36:55 - What success looks like at Zero 10 Basel40:04 - Programme highlightshttps://x.com/trevorpaglen 

00:24 - Welcome Jalil 03:29 - From art to coding 07:04 - Finding Web3 and NFTs 08:05 - Finding Visualize Value and community  14:01 - The Permissionless Apprentice and connecting with Jack 18:47 - Embracing Ethereum and learning Solidity 22:10 - Scapes  24:24 - Experiencing the NFT boom  29:46 - From rock bottom to Checks  35:08 - Building the Checks contracts  39:39 - How Checks works 41:53 - Rarity, MEV risk and gaming the system 43:26 - From Checks to Opepen and an ongoing collaboration  44:24 - Creative roles, collaboration and ego 45:58 - The impact of AI on Jalil's practice 50:38 - Obsession as a path to exceptionalism  53:58 - Exploring an individual art practice again     56:43 - CryptoPunks V1 and V2 01:00:50 - Fixing V1 trading on-chain and the issue with wrappers 01:04:22 - V1 drama and shifting views on IP 01:09:33 - The birth of Networked 01:14:32 - Building for wider understanding with EVM Now  01:18:40 - A new auction house for Punks 01:21:01 - New launches and ideas at Verse  Scapes: https://scapes.xyz/ https://jack.art/checks-originals https://opepen.art/ https://x.com/jalilwahdat

00:14 - Welcome Nuclear Samurai02:51 - Expectations going into the mint 06:13 - Why choose Verse for BRAINROT 08:59 - Early explorations in digital art  11:59 - Fine art to fashion photography  16:04 - Rediscovering NFTs in 202217:30 - Finding community on X20:27 - New technologies and artistic freedom 24:21 - Cultivating a broad audience 28:03 - The Artist as a Founder   29:14 - The importance of a considered rollout  33:28 - Timing the drop, attention, and outreach 36:50 - How trends shape culture 38:28 - Scaling the work 41:06 - The power of a custom contract 42:51 - The next steps for BRAINROT 46:34 - Community and Discord plans47:55 - Why BRAINROT resonated so widely  53:29 - Zeitgeists and references Nuclear Samurai: https://x.com/nuclearsamuraiBRAINROT: https://verse.works/series/brainrot-by-nuclear-samurai

00:18 - Welcome Brian Droitcour and sssluke02:50 - Burnout and returning online04:50 - Brian and the origins of Outland07:54 - A mismatch in value systems and the importance of critique 10:03 - Outland's relaunch as a nonprofit12:41 - How important are NFTs to digital art 15:46 - Why try to bridge different art worlds 21:11 - New Bad Image22:27 - Evil Biscuit and the avant scene 25:51 - Trait Maxing, Mythmaking and the birth of new movements29:10 - The meaning of New Bad Image31:39 - Brian on schizocollage  35:37 - Rejecting the good image39:04 - Curating a group show42:00 - Emergent online culture46:54 - Why subculture matters 50:27 - Where credibility comes from today54:30 - Art as collectibles 56:29 - After the Art World and Drifella III58:41 - The goal of New Bad Image 01:01:45 - Following a curatorial path 01:03:14 - Collaborating with Andreas Gysin 01:05:30 - The state of the spacesssluke: https://x.com/sssluke1Brian Droitcour: https://x.com/briandroitcourAfter the Art World: https://outlandart.substack.com/p/after-the-art-world-part-1 Brian's thread on schizocollage: https://x.com/briandroitcour/status/1932829548720369949

00:30 - Welcome Simon Hudson and Justin Gilanyi 05:32 - Building cultural architecture  06:46 - How Justin and Simon met  10:33 - Art Basel Hong Kong group dynamics  11:55 - A collaborative mindset  12:47 - Comparing the energy in Miami and Hong Kong 14:58 - Botto installation lessons 18:54 - Pre-sales and fair prep  20:55 - New gallery models working with fairs   24:00 - Exposure costs and thinking long-term    29:26 - Focusing on patronage and support 31:20 - Adapting to the Art Basel environment 35:49 - New collectors, immersive work and tiered entry points 37:31 - The art world's multiple centres 39:25 - Jack Butcher's Work, Luck, Play 42:43 - Balancing online and physical worlds 44:44 - Fair economics and infrastructure 46:50 - Botto, CNN, and moving beyond the crypto space 51:30 - The Botto token and novel patronage models  53:25 - Strategy for future fairs  Justin Gilanyi: https://x.com/justingilanyi Simon Hudson: https://x.com/hudsonsims

00:23 - Welcome Harvey Rayner and Tabor Robak01:40 - Human Resources launch and mint-out04:44 - Tabor's thoughts post-mint07:00 - Organic growth, communication and momentum building09:00 - First reactions: risk, confusion and conceptual clarity11:00 - Roleplay, identity and embodying PFPs13:00 - Timing, AI and why the project works now15:00 - The state of PFP culture and shifting expectations17:00 - Market dynamics and collecting behaviour19:00 - Collecting as belief in the artist, not just the asset21:00 - Risk, politics and performing identity online23:00 - Narrative construction and PFPs as creative tools 28:00 - Clowns, anti-status and rejecting “cool” aesthetics33:00 - Mr Happy and corporate ideology34:30 - What's next for Human Resources?35:00 - Tabcorp as an art company and long-term vision37:00 - Expansion, tools and the limits of the ecosystem39:00 - Gender, identity and ethical boundaries42:00 - Harvey on ChatFUKR, PFP fatigue and lessons learned45:00 - Community management, responsibility and burnout47:00 - New collectors and shifting audience dynamics49:00 - Phase two and sustaining long-term value51:00 - Glitches, clones and technical refinement53:00 - Subjective rarity, provenance and long-term meaning56:00 - Maintaining momentum58:00 - Balancing engagement with artistic practice01:00:00 - Institutional context and gallery reception01:01:50 - Harvey on Art Basel Hong Kong and physical work 01:04:30 - Translating digital practice into physical space01:07:00 - Presentation, scale and audience perception01:09:30 - Series mechanics and live minting 01:10:55 - Focusing on accessible art for a more traditional collector base 01:15:40 - The power of the modern print process 01:19:15 - Finding positivity amid market swings 01:22:55 - Social media and the politics of art  https://x.com/harvey_rayner https://x.com/taborrobak https://www.taborrobak.com https://rayner.art

00:20 - Welcome Abigail Miller and Micol01:07 - Micol’s journey into digital art and NFTs02:20 - From corporate to crypto art04:12 - Expectations and burnout05:26 - Abigail’s background06:26 - The Fulbright program, Russia and cultural diplomacy 09:32 - Crypto roots and art school11:07 - Space struggles and growth14:25 - Echo chamber and reset18:46 - Financialization vs. experimentation21:28 - Changes in identity, fame and cultural experience23:54 - Art Basel Miami and Zero10 27:11 - The missing middle ground for artists30:53 - Avant Arte operations36:01 - Artists, curators and different value propositions40:41 - Industry challenges behind the scenes 41:33 - Vertical’s hard lessons45:10 - Building in public45:36 - Feeling on the periphery of the community47:46 - Women going quiet49:18 - Social media burnout56:09 - Beyond Twitter, IRLs and mailing lists 58:09 - Why female artists tend to be under represented  01:06:05 - Bro culture and access01:10:24 - Sustainability and long-term thinking 01:12:37 - Women supporting women01:22:03 - Checks, balances and ensuring growth https://x.com/micolmicolmicol https://x.com/proofofgailhttps://x.com/avant_arte

00:24 - Verse Talks returns02:55 - The state of affairs in digital art04:40 - Launching new work, market cycles and algorithm whiplash07:56 - Focusing on the internet as a canvas 09:15 - The difficulty in bridging crypto and wider internet culture 16:15 - Where are all the new artists post Art Basel's success? 17:55 - Crypto liquidity and its impact on the digital art market  20:34 - Building a diversified practice 22:35 - Has there been a shift in Jack's audience post Art Basel Miami?28:40 - Over-indexing on institutions, the same names and public fatigue31:27 - What actually changed after Art Basel Miami?35:57 - Moving beyond Crypto Twitter 37:20 - Parallels between institutions interacting with crypto art and BTC's adoption by TradFi 42:09 - The benefit of releasing work into a quiet market 45:45 - Is 2020–21 Ethereum culture dying?49:53 - The SILK model: global events, Eastern markets and physical-first collabs52:48 - Jack Butcher at Art Basel Hong Kong01:00:28 - Batsoupyum, cabals and treating money as meaning01:03:55 - An argument for looking outside the echo chamber  01:06:41 - NFT aesthetics and the BAYC era01:07:21 - Crypto art vs. art on the blockchain01:08:13 - Node’s opening01:10:42 - SuperRare's new exhibition, "We Have Digital Art At Home"01:12:01 - Why Art Basel is so hard: costs and risks01:13:33 - Bridging to the traditional art world and expanding beyond our bubble01:17:24 - Martín Bruce's GEOCITIES auction01:20:23 - Fresh blood, new energy and what’s next https://x.com/pocobellihttps://x.com/jackbutcher https://x.com/DnoTAO https://silkarthouse.com/

00:26 - Welcome (back) Tabor Robak01:40 - Broken Printer and Tabcorp Labs03:25 - The Tabcorp universe05:25 - Human Resources and exploring PFP as a genre 11:10 - A critique of corporate culture12:45 - The process behind Human Resources 16:05 - Traits and rarity  19:00 - Are we the PFPs?   19:57  - Community and the future of Tabcorp 21:50 - Between the traditional and web3 art worlds 25:50 - Determining the number of traits 29:07 - The relationship between Human Resources and Tabcorp 31:05 - Building the network 36:09 - Addressing diversity and conceptual challenges41:36 - Exploring release mechanics and mint allocations 47:31 - How NFTs have fed into Tabor's broader practice51:49 - What drew Tabor to NFTs as a medium  55:25 - Challenges and perceptions in the art world 58:20 - Online fatigue and a move back towards IRL59:49 - Indexing Human Resources 01:03:34 - The simulation as a medium 01:06:20 - Tabcorp Labs artwork updates 01:08:25 - Keeping pace with technological change 01:10:22 - Art as a brand and the studio as a factory  01:13:47 - The social dimension of an artwork https://www.taborrobak.com https://x.com/taborrobakHuman Resources: https://verse.works/series/human-resources 

01:18 - Welcome Rhea Myers01:26 - Rhea's journey into art and technology02:08 - Art school experiences and early career07:56 - An anthropological approach to the tech industry10:59 - An artistic approach to programming17:43 - Blockchain and cultural observations24:39 - Early days of blockchain and crypto art37:47 - TORCHED H34R7S42:05 - Challenges in works that depend on audience participation44:29 - Cryptocurrency and cultural misunderstandings46:19 - Blockchain's artistic and conceptual impact52:17 - Early days of Ethereum and smart contracts01:01:27 - Art and blockchain: a symbiotic relationship01:09:51 - The evolution of crypto art and NFTs01:12:08 - The Fractionalized Phallus and gender identity01:19:57 - Navigating the art and crypto worlds01:22:31 - Reflections on the artistic origins of NFTs01:24:03 - Gallery collaborations and curatorial insights 01:31:20 - Emotional depth, authorship, and personal resonance 01:34:44 - Introducing Koala Noosphere01:40:02 - The concept of ownership in NFTs01:52:41 - Future projects and final thoughts

00:26 - Welcome Phil Mohun01:44 - The vision behind Node Foundation03:23 - Why Palo Alto?04:05 - The importance of Silicon Valley06:14 - The role of Node in the art community15:09 - Node's programming and seasonal approach19:02 - Focus on presentation, education, and preservation25:18 - CryptoPunks and ERC standards26:36 - Yuga's contribution and collection bids28:06 - Creating cultural impact and a distinct brand31:20 - Node's vision and nonprofit model34:39 - Sustaining Node and community support43:34 - The importance of physical and digital spaceshttps://x.com/philmohun https://x.com/nodefnd?s=21&t=Y0qIYiBAAsy4ea-t-FfRQw https://nodefoundation.com/

01:44 - Welcome Terence Broad02:41 - Terry's early artistic journey 07:16 - Transition to creative computing 14:03 - Exploring AI and generative art 15:45 - DeepDream and AI visual understanding 19:42 - Blade Runner—Autoencoded25:56 - From Whitney to worldwide 34:12 - Balancing an art and tech career 34:43 - Pursuing a PhD and creative AI 36:09 - Developing (un)stable equilibrium 36:59 - Challenges and breakthroughs 42:36 - Recognition and impact of (un)stable equilibrium 44:08 - PhD experience and artistic practice 50:27 - AI art and data ethics 52:15 - NFTs and connecting with collectors 55:27 - Future directions and inspirations 01:03:38 - Network bending, Teratome and other works 01:09:32 - How AI has shifted perceptions around creativity https://terencebroad.com  Terence Broad on X https://verse.works/exhibitions/unstable-equilibrium

00:22 - Welcome Matt Medved 04:34 The Evolution of Media and Culture06:36 The Birth of NFT Now and Its Mission08:52 The Gateway: Bridging Traditional and Digital Art10:42 The Shift to Now Media15:32 Art Basel and the Digital Art Council21:51 Meeting the market where it is and growing understanding 24:33 Reflections on Art Basel and Digital Art26:46 The Future of Digital Art in Traditional Spaces29:34 Interactive and Immersive Digital Art33:00 - Highlights and Reflections from the fair41:02 - Live on the ground inside zero 10https://nowmedia.co Matt Medved: https://x.com/mattmedved Now Media: https://x.com/nowmedia 

01:42 - Welcome Laurie Simmons 04:17 - Early inspiration, New York and formative travel 07:25 - Artistic beginnings and creative identity 12:00 - Politics, rebellion and activism    14:57 - Navigating gender norms and early works  21:45 - AI and artistic evolution 27:55 - Photography and artistic identity 30:26 - Connections and collaborations 32:32 - Meeting kindred spirits in the art world 33:08 - Defining movements and appropriation 35:05 - Rejecting the previous generation’s approach37:14 - Navigating the art world and personal identity 40:26 - Embracing NFTs and digital art  43:39 - Thinking about the space as a separate art world 47:53 - What causes the stigma around NFTs and AI among legacy artists  50:24 - The changing landscape of the art world 54:40 - Looking forward towards the future Laurie Simmons: https://x.com/simmonslaurie Black & White: https://www.alminerech.com/exhibitions/11587-laurie-simmons-black-white 

01:15 - Welcome Refik Anadol02:07 - Blade Runner, media architecture and early inspirations    03:34 - Defining data painting04:45 - The concept of data as pigment07:44 - Fusing art and architecture 10:24 - Viral success and public art13:49 - Collaborations and technological innovation 16:30 - Defining a medium through a holistic approach 21:27- Building the datasets and creating positive impact 25:10 - Galleries, collectors and shifting understandings 29:10 - Avoiding the hype and staying focused 31:19 - Collaborating with Messi        38:03 - Public perception and criticism 45:08 - Early blockchain exploration47:25 - Unsupervised at MoMA 48:34 - Balancing physical and digital art49:41 - Challenges and opportunities in web354:27 - The vision behind Dataland 01:00:02 - Thinking in "living systems"01:03:09 - The role of technology in art 01:07:18 - Art as a celebration of humanity  01:11:59 - Collaborating with Demis Hassabis and Jensen Huang  01:20:44 - Future plans and collaborations Refik Anadol: https://x.com/refikanadol https://dataland.art/Dataland Residency Program: https://dataland.art/blog/introducing-the-dataland-ai-artist-residency

00:50 - Early days and the Art Blocks boom03:48 - A mixed-media approach to a generative practice 05:02 - From Noise 08:50 - Exploring gestural mark-making through an algorithmic practice 10:39 - The power of messy ideas and an unrestricted output space 15:01 - Where the art lies 16:30 - The curation process behind From Noise 18:21 - Thinking about how the work exists physically 22:55 - Unpacking an artist's need to create and experiment 24:24 - Sketching with code and the genesis of From Noise 27:22 - The pressure in a series-based format 28:59 - Avoiding trends and examining the impact of new technologies 30:50 - Edward Hopper and a lesson in authenticity 33:30 - Detaching from social media 35:20 - What represents personal success 36:30 - Agnes Martin and going all in on the work 37:42 - On Marfa, community and the future of digital art 39:28 - Tyler's personal collection and its impact on his work 41:09 - Rejecting the idea of persona as a brand 42:30 - Exploring the different stereotypes around digital and physical artists  46:15 - The cultural influence of the computer  https://www.tylerxhobbs.com Tyler Hobbs Studio: https://x.com/tylerxhobbsTyler Hobbs on Messy Ideas: https://www.tylerxhobbs.com/words/direction-reaction-and-messy-ideas                                       

00:28 - Welcome (back!) Eli01:10 – Preparing for Miami Beach01:40 – Marfa and Las Vegas: Yuga Labs, collectors and community on the road5:50 – The digital council: advising on the digital art ecosystem7:08 – Leaning into digital art in a post-hype moment7:50 – 1,000 m² space at Art Basel Miami Beach + global initiative9:50 – Cultivating a new audience vs “just more sales”18:20 – How Zero 10 sits outside the usual Art Basel sector selection process24:00 – Eli’s curatorial brief26:56 – Why Beeple Studios and Visualize Value are showing as “exhibitors”35:50 – Stigma, mainstream recognition and why Eli doesn’t want to sanitise crypto culture44:50 – Onboarding flows, interactive installations, and how to make it “stick”49:00 – Market conditions and thin liquidity49:50 – Pricing, supply, and finding the right stewards vs chasing all-time-highs01:10:53 – SOLOS without a permanent space01:15:52 – Node’s role in expanding the collector base01:18:30 – Eli: From operator to patron and making this his life’s work01:21:00 – Collective spirit vs competition

00:30 - Welcome OSF 01:40 - Coping with volatility and market panic 03:16 - The origins of RektGuy 06:15 - Managing impostor syndrome 09:15 - A community born in the bear market 10:55 - Pushing against societal definitions of an artist 12:56 - From PFP collection to drinks company 14:19 - The importance of branching out from NFTs 16:50 - Creating brand identity out of the art 19:20 - The pros and cons of launching a token 22:55 - An additive rather than extractive approach 25:21 - The evolution of brand 27:05 - From web3 to the traditional market 30:17 - Riding the wave of crypto adoption 36:08 - The power of organic growth 39:35 - Building a token around identity rather than utility 43:40 - Collecting and a.c.k. 44:37 - The inevitability of digital art 47:13 - Verse rundown OSF: https://x.com/osf_rektRekt Drinks: https://x.com/rektdrinks a.c.k: https://x.com/lphacentaurikid artie galerie: https://x.com/artiegalerieBangarang: https://verse.works/exhibitions/bangarang-week1Petra Cortright: https://x.com/petcortrightBurnt Umber Broken Silver American Spirit: https://verse.works/series/burnt-umber-broken-silver-american-spirit-by-petra-cortrighttinysoul: https://x.com/tinysoulgame Level 1 https://verse.works/series/level-1-by-tiny-soul 

01:08 - Leaving art school and early success  03:15 - Staying true to your artistic voice 06:00 - Whitehawk and Nottingham Forest 07:13 - Frieze Magazine, Transmission Gallery and Err 10:46 - Tapping one's internal monologue 12:04 - The importance of comedy in art 14:15 - Shrig Shop, merchandise and exploring context 19:01 - Chocolate's Not The Problem, You Are The Problem 23:10 - Sales mechanics and managing supply   27:50 - Problem Guitars 28:42 - Exploring NFTs in the context of David's practice 34:50 - How the art world has changed since the 90s 36:18 - Sidmouth School of Art 40:30 - Community art as a political act 44:28 - Where the art world is heading https://davidshrigley.com https://shrigshop.com https://www.instagram.com/davidshrigley 

00:25 - Welcome Motzko 03:22 - Marfa recap  07:50 - Connecting and consolidating relationships 11:28 - Marfa highlights 13:50 - Fallout from the Raoul clip 19:16 - Navigating the social media landscape 26:00 - Motzko's collecting thesis31:41 - Creating an aesthetic experience while scrolling 34:50 - Outside perspectives and judgments 36:37 - Silicon Valley's silence around NFTs 38:58 - Collecting as a means of self-expression 40:25 - Motzko's artist picks: Rafaël and Lorna 44:55 - New Three.js work and the browser as a medium 50:16 - A question of context and framing 51:30 - Exploring Quine by Larva Labs 57:16 - $PNKSTR 01:03:24 - fxhash opens back up 01:05:22 - Is VVV's continued hype sustainable 01:08:15 - The strength of the Avant Gay community 01:10:55 - The difference in culture across chains 01:15:22 - The issue with aesthetic over saturation 01:16:17 - Tezos and artist collaboration 01:18:18 - William Mapan and Superpositions 01:26:30 - Ivan and Sam's departure from Verse 01:33:44 - Verse rundown https://motzko.net motzko: https://x.com/motzkoLorna Mills: https://x.com/lm_netwebs Rafaël Rozendaal: https://x.com/newrafaelSamsy: https://x.com/samsyyyy William Mapan: https://x.com/williamapan Larva Labs: https://x.com/larvalabs 

00:35 - Welcome Redbeard 02:58 - Discovering digital art 05:03 - Too many sellers, not enough buyers 09:13 - Debunking the cabal 15:13 - Power laws, high prices and rising tides 18:42 - Building relationships and community 22:30 - Uplifting voices and building on history 23:17 - The importance of open-minded participation 25:55 - Being part of a movement and making an impact 29:08 - Zoom out and refine your focus 31:28 - Collaborate more, compete less 32:44 - Inside the Whitney selection committee 35:05 - Performance art belongs on-chain 36:03 - Institutions help, community leads 40:35 - Expanding the community beyond X 42:38 - Showcasing the human side of the artists 46:20 - Looking past the tweets and connecting in person 50:15 - The value of innovation   Redbeard: https://x.com/redbeardnft

00:40 - Welcome Hilde Lynn Helphenstein07:20 - Conservatism in the art world 10:02 - Early exposure to different cultures 11:54 - Conceptual Art, new genres and developing a practice 14:01 - The art world as a performance 16:54 - From Hooters to Art Basel 18:09 - The birth of Jerry Gogosian 22:24 - Problems built into the business model 24:43 - AI and the potential valuelessness of art 30:03 - How social media has changed the art world 34:15 - The myth of inclusivity 39:20 - The pandemic, cultural shifts and NFTs 44:36 - The power of physicality in art 48:45 -  We are all memes 50:40 - The power of the network and connection 56:00 - Normalised extremes and impostor syndrome 01:02:10 - The cost of opening up to an audience 01:14:50 - Moving forward and thinking about the future 01:25:10 - Gozo and the importance of texture in digital art 01:30:37 - A missing historical context in NFTs 01:38:30 - What art will look like in the future 01:43:05 - Technophobia and protectionism in the traditional art world 01:49:20 - Cancel culture, polarisation and satire 01:55:52 - A future NFT true believer Jerry Gogosian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jerrygogosian Jerry Gogosian X: https://x.com/jerrygogosianGozo - an improbable thread: https://verse.works/series/an-improbable-thread-by-gozo Gozo: https://x.com/uncertaingaze

00:42 - Welcome Sasha Stiles 04:55 - The foundations for an endless curiosity 09:50 - Connecting with Kalmyk art forms 13:40 - From academia to the arts 16:20 - New York, cultural absorption and parallel careers 19:05 - Living through pivotal technological shifts 21:52 - An ongoing cultural relationship with technology 23:20 - Nick Bostrom, Superintelligence and Attention Is All You Need 26:39 - The role of the writer and language in the wake of AI 28:29 - Talk to Transformer, early tooling and digital exploration 32:58 - Working with an AI co-author 33:40 - A constantly evolving data set 35:30 - Defining the art and shaping the system 38:26 - Loss of nuance online and the impact of live performance 41:40 - Identifying as an artist and blockchain as a multi-media printing press 48:20 - 2020 and people connecting online 52:00 - The importance of community and social media 54:38 - The role of a gallery in an artist's career 58:45 - The stresses of a financialized practice 01:00:45 - theVERSEverse and the growth of an experimental collective 01:06:56 - A Living Poem at MoMa 01:11:23 - Situating AI-powered verse in the tradition of text-based art 01:16:19 - Upcoming writing, work and special events at MoMa Sasha Stiles: https://x.com/sashastilesA Living Poem: https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/5839 https://theverseverse.com    

00:25 – Intro: Raoul Pal01:05 – Real Vision: why it started after the GFC/Euro crisis02:06 – Democratising finance content; early crypto coverage03:41 – Bootstrapping video: “we knew f*** all” era (2013–14)04:45 – Word of mouth growth; mistakes + learning media/tech06:40 – Art + NFTs: desire to be part of a cultural movement09:05 – Crypto Twitter as daily culture; priceless long-term record10:33 – What is “consensus”? Attention as the driver13:00 – Influencers vs. durable consensus (fleeting vs. lasting)14:32 – Do we need museum/gallery validation? Two worlds emerge16:36 – Museums, value, and attention 17:19 – Counterpoint from museum practice; cultural significance18:37 – Once museums act, value follows; UK institutions lag on digital20:56 – Egalitarian internet: anyone can show, few will sell22:19 – Raoul’s barbell thesis: ultra-culture ↔ frontier tech24:10 – Living with digital art; display that works vs. doesn’t25:33 – XCOPY supply dynamics; Beeple’s opposite path28:05 – Die With The Most Likes: world-building & collector bonds29:57 – Explaining it to the “old world”; youth curators & A&R analogy30:52 – People will write the art history; institutions must adapt32:27 – Contemporary art attention collapse; digital shows done poorly33:48 – Onboarding wealthy collectors: friction + sticker shock35:48 – Curation, custody, and NFT funds as bridges37:22 – Can outsiders “feel it” without the chats? Not yet38:52 – Is recommending digital art scary? On risk & Lindy effects40:19 – The collector’s journey: pain → pride → taste41:57 – Where are we in the NFT art cycle? Re-ratings ahead43:45 – Token incentives = attention fuel, but fleeting44:48 – Toward automated, attention-driven art funds (later)46:11 – Shiny objects vs. signal; what the experiments teach48:00 – AI upends moats; community as the moat49:39 – One-to-one media future; end of “one-to-many”51:00 – Human connection, shared experiences become scarce51:40 – Art as cultural capsule in an AI world53:06 – Marfa event as a “marker stone”54:13 – Small world energy; one degree of separation55:18 – Thanks + closing…55:37 – One last Q: why Raoul goes against the grain56:05 – Rebellion roots; living in the future57:38 – Do it differently; travel > prestige paths59:50 – Be yourself in the age of AI; find your voice01:00:26 – Comfort zone ≠ where the magic happenshttps://x.com/RaoulGMIhttps://x.com/XCOPYARThttps://x.com/kimasendorfhttps://x.com/toadswiback

00:33 - Welcome Adrian Pocobelli 01:39 - Discovering the counterculture 07:10 - The desire to collect 13:05 - The Stone Roses, The Smiths, and J. G. Ballard 19:00 - Neoplatonism and psychedelics 24:30 - Learning the craft of graphic design 26:50 - Becoming a broadcaster 29:05 - Finding crypto, Objkt and Tezos 31:35 - The difference between crypto art and art on the blockchain 34:52 - The evolution of the NFT space 39:45 - The complexities of running a marketplace 44:05 - Chain-specific culture 45:51 - The Pocobelli Collection on Verse 46:45 - What does it mean to be a digital gallery 51:07 - The difference between a traditional and digital understanding 54:42 - The thinking behind Artist Journal 01:02:10 - Speaking on inspiration vs. plagiarism 01:08:50 - Derivative culture in the space 01:12:40 - Placing the focus on the art rather than the market 01:14:50 - The Kurt Hustle Collective and WeB'97 01:21:41 - An Italian sensibility and open-minded approach 01:26:20 - The future of digital art01:31:15 - Creating a welcoming environment for new collectors 01:35:30 - Educating new entrants to the space Adrian Pocobelli: https://x.com/pocobelli Kurt Hustle Collective: https://x.com/kurthustle97 Terry Visual: https://x.com/terryvisual JNK: https://x.com/jnk101 haydiroket: https://x.com/haydiroket 

00:45 - Welcome Sebastian Sanchez 08:55 - A journey into digital art 11:05 - Christie's 3.0 and joining the team 17:44 - Developing a commercial mindset 20:40 - Finding the right market fit 22:30 - Nurturing artist and collector relationships 25:05 - Highlights across the last three years 26:58 - Curatorial vs commercial perspectives 30:18 - The effect of an open market on institutional Web3 adoption 32:12 - The closure of Christie's digital art department 35:05 - The implications of digital work in the evening sale  38:42 - Winning collections and building the narrative 43:40 - Dynamics between primary and secondary markets 45:55 - Institutional vs. market credibility 48:00 - The reality of a nascent space 52:04 - A changing collector base 54:26 - A moment of future historical importance 56:19 - Sebastian's artist highlights 57:40 - The emergence of a merged market 01:00:28 - Verse roundtable 01:02:00 - V001: In Real Time recap 01:08:27 - The power of relational dynamics and mixed lots 01:14:26 - Marketing, strategies and themed lots 01:25:25 - Upcoming in-person events and gallery shows 01:27:45 - $PNKSTR 01:30:47 - Traditional art market decline 01:36:30 - Jack Butcher's Gas Wars 01:38:48 - Eric De Giuli and Zero (Broken Symmetry) 01:47:00 - Artist highlights Sebastian Sanchez: https://x.com/sebastianss527 Lowbie: https://x.com/archivepilled Thelonious Stokes: https://www.instagram.com/thelonious_art Sachcoo The Arty: https://x.com/sachcoo_thearty James Bloom: https://x.com/crashblossom1 Maya Man: https://x.com/mayaonthenet Joe Pease: https://x.com/joepease William Mapan: https://x.com/williamapan

00:45 - Yeche Lange and Avant Gay recap 05:40 - Series size and collector focus 10:00 - Artist trajectories and release mechanics 13:10 - Art and the Diderot effect 20:10 - Collecting strategies and high-net-worth individuals 24:45 - What if every work was soulbound 28:30 - Cultural stickiness in the face of diluted attention 33:00 - Collecting as self narrative reinforcement 35:28 - Christie's digital art department closure 42:03 - V001: In Real Time 45:20 - Selecting lots and coordinating the auction 52:15 - The risk of exposing markets 56:30 - Rebalancing collections and investing in emerging artists 59:20 - Dream lots 01:02:15 - An art-forward approach 01:07:59 - ACK's piano at Carnegie Hall 01:11:35 -  Sasha Stiles at MoMa 01:12:53 - The emergence of different cultural spheres within the space 01:15:40 - An artist-based curatorial program 01:24:45 - Narrative, sales and market realities 01:28:40 - Parker Ito, Hyper-Gamble and community energy 01:30:29 - Artist highlights 01:36:06 - Verse rundown Elfilter: https://x.com/elfilter_a Mike Balzer: https://x.com/pxlshrd Alkan Avcioğlu: https://x.com/evergreendazed Edward Burtynsky: https://x.com/edwardburtynsky evil biscuit: https://x.com/bis__cut Pipilotti Rist: https://www.instagram.com/pipilotti_rist_studio V001: In Real Time: https://verse.works/exhibitions/v001-in-real-time                 

00:45 - Welcome Eric De Giuli 02:18 - Connecting art and theoretical physics 05:35 - Early explorations into generative art 08:29 - Balancing artistic and academic practices 10:35 - Discovering NFTs, 2021, and Art Blocks 13:05 - Navigating multiple audiences 16:25 - Creating order from nothing 18:55 - Avoiding noise as a structural element 23:50 - Amplifying and controlling unpredictability 26:56 - Emergent complexity from simple building blocks 33:00 - The work as an unfolding performance 34:57 - Floating-point errors as a source of structural randomness 37:56 - Colour as an aesthetic choice 41:15 - Finding room for creative expression in physics 44:07 - AI and exploring complex systems 48:05 - Simulation theory and the burden of proof 51:45 - Community and artistic connection  54:35 - Complementary careers and entwined practices 58:12 - Exploring Calian and Atlas 01:00:12 - Zero (Broken Symmetry) Eric De Giuli: https://x.com/eeedg__                    

00:35 - Welcome Rafaël Rozendaal 02:55 - The advantage of a conversational archive 06:21 - The influence of travel and cultural heritage 08:25 - Neen, LA and digital art in the late '90s 12:06 - Growing up in an artistic household 14:32 - Grants, funding and commercial pressure 16:35 - The potential of the early internet 21:00 - Art school and early connections 27:30 - Berlin and Post-Internet 31:30 - The impact of New York on a working practice 35:36 - A window to the creative process 38:15 - The importance of painting 40:21 - The power of a minimal approach 42:15 - Discovering blockchain and NFTs 45:01 - A new audience and a new perspective 49:55 - Papertoilet.com and unintended virality 56:40 - Quantifying effort, success and quality 59:50 - MoMa and allowing the space to curate the work 01:01:45 - Twist 01:03:20 - Thinking with your brush 01:05:15 - The origin of Rooms 01:07:40 - Colour, saturation, contrast and iteration 01:10:53 - The advantage of working with a gallery 01:16:26 - What's next Rafaël Rozendaal: https://x.com/newrafael Fellowship: https://x.com/fellowshiptrust https://fellowship.xyz/exhibition/rafael-rozendaal-rooms                  

00:46 - Welcome Jared Madere 03:19 - The genesis of Yeche Lange 09:20 - Market consolidation and post-2021 11:00 - Exploring the role of the gallery in the Web3 space 16:18 - What caused the scene to develop on Solana 18:03 - The growth of community 21:59 -  Earl16o1, trader fiction and chart paintings 25:35 - Compatibility with the traditional sphere 31:40 - A new mode of operating for a changing art world 40:20 - Market transparency vs. market opacity 46:33 - Embracing risk and volatility 50:35 - Looking to the future of Yeche and VVV 58:15 - The reuse of assets and creation of derivatives 01:03:55 - The development of art coins 01:06:30 - Series sizing and artistic output 01:09:40 - VAJ and Vajunnie 01:15:20 - The growth of the scene and new collectors 01:23:53 - The origin of the term Gay NFT 01:26:40 - How people outside the space can orientate themselves 01:31:45 - The importance of physicality and living with art  VVV: https://x.com/vvvdotsoGalerie Yeche Lange: https://x.com/yeche_lange wretched worm: https://x.com/wretched_wormspiky dj: https://x.com/spiky_dj_Bosh: https://x.com/supermetalx kid xanthrax: https://x.com/id_xanthraxParker Ito: https://x.com/creamydreamyearl16o1: https://x.com/earl16o1Tojiba Brand Manager: https://x.com/m_m_____m____mmmifella: https://x.com/mmifellaevil biscuit: https://x.com/bis__cutfairybaby420: https://x.com/fairybaby420lowbie: https://x.com/archivepilledGremlins: https://x.com/gremlins2movieAlex Mackin Dolan: https://www.alexmackindolan.comVajunnie: https://x.com/vaj_mindpalace      

00:47 - Welcome Paul Pfeiffer 03:07 - The spectacle of sport 07:06 - Exploring the implications of new technology 10:05 - Working with digital media in the early 1990s 14:50 - The blurring of the digital and the human 20:08 - How media consumption has shifted across the last thirty years 23:50 - The stadium as mediatised architecture 30:57 - New work and developing projects     Paul Pfeiffer: https://www.instagram.com/pmp2021  

00:48 - Diving into the Solana trenches 07:40 - PFP culture and Drilady 08:50 - Chain-specific culture and why Solana makes sense 14:26 - Parker Ito and the impact of Horses?2 17:00 - A different community of artists and collectors 19:00 - Jay's mid-curve meme 20:34 - Raoul Pal and consensus vs non-consensus 27:40 - Should we all be bullposting? 29:40 - AB[500] and does shuttering encourage long-term value accrual 32:55 - Verse rundown 35:08 - Debriefing on Quantizer 40:37 - Feral File and Net Evil 42:30 - Solo vs group shows 45:20 - Artist highlights MCHX: https://x.com/mchx17 supermetalx: https://x.com/supermetalx serezha galkin: https://x.com/graphicapng Terence Broad: https://x.com/terrybroad Mike Balzer: https://x.com/pxlshrd          

00:38 - Welcome Parker Ito 05:25 - Tumblr, Post-Internet scene and finding community 12:20 - The effect of early success 20:30 - Disillusionment with the art world 24:25 - What caused the market to boom 26:28 - Deep lore, Basel 2015 and Leonardo DiCaprio 30:01 - The compromises needed to work as an artist 33:03 - Through-lines and stylistic tropes 35:10 - A non-hierarchical approach 38:17 - Discovering NFTs 39:50 - Balancing the traditional art world and the NFT space  42:27 - Cultural friction and the benefit to the stigma around NFTs 46:00 - Finding the Solana scene 48:17 - Horses, Drifella 2, Drilady and Parkerito.net52:55 - The Pilgrim’s Living Room Crucifixion; Mona Lisa Hyper-Gamble 58:10 - Traitmaxxing, repetition and composition 01:01:55 - The working process of the Living Room Crucifixion 01:10:50 - Ambiguity within the art work 01:13:17 - The work as a metaphor for a psychological space 01:16:15 - Objects, layers and series traits 01:19:01 - Beyond Living Room Crucifixion 01:21:20 - The artist residency at the Bellagio Parker Ito: https://x.com/creamydreamy https://verse.works/series/the-pilgrims-living-room-crucifixion-mona-lisa-hyper-gamble-by-parker-ito

00:48 - Welcome Adam Levine 01:15 - What sets the Toledo Museum of Art apart 05:22 - Ensuring the community has access to culture 07:20 - The benefit of private funding 10:10 - TMA's digital program 13:25 - The history and founding principles of the museum 21:20 - An emphasis on craft, skill and aesthetic quality 27:10 - Artist studios, manufacturing and industrial process 31:20 - Infinite Images: The Art of Algorithms 33:40 - The Digital Artist-in-Residence Program and community onboarding 43:23 - A focus on innovation and strategy 46:10 - Adam's path to NFTs 49:45 - Repeat visitation as a key performance metric 54:40 - "Integrating art into people's lives" 56:25 - Expanding the audience for digital art 01:03:16 - Verse roundtable 01:07:10 - Cultural accessibility, funding and profitability 01:16:55 - Why Artie is exiting the space 01:24:25 - Release cadence 01:30:57 - The difficulty of finding sustainability as a platform 01:37:20 - A maturation of the space 01:41:30 - The potential for a reshaping of consensus around the blue chips 01:44:55 - Harm van den Dorpel 01:49:23 - Verse rundown 01:50:25 - Artist highlights 01:51:50 - Debriefing on Terence Broad Toledo Museum of Art: https://x.com/toledomuseumnoper: https://x.com/bagdelete Kevin McCoy: https://x.com/mccoyspace Jennifer McCoy: https://x.com/jennmccoyspace                

00:40 - Welcome Harm van den Dorpel 01:35 - Working with plotters 05:06 - Creative beginnings 08:45 - A grounding in early AI 11:20 - From tech to art school 13:50 - The shifting context around digital presentation16:10 - The development of post-internet art 18:00 - Separating sales and practice 22:40 - Markov's Window 25:00 - Establishing Left gallery and discovering blockchain 30:33 - The stress of managing a gallery 32:01 - The importance of true digital ownership 35:29 - Mutant Garden Seeder 38:15 - Exploring Quantizer 40:40 - Algorithmic archeology 42:45 - Dithering and Quantizer's traits 46:42 - Two seeds and a double system 50:20 - The reason for artist curation 52:02 - Mandalas, Buddhism and the influence on Quantizer 56:00 - Transience and permanence 58:20 - Surprise born from a system 01:04:10 - Meditation machines 01:08:12 - The relationship between an artists practice and the market 01:09:55 - Defining the digital and physical worlds 01:12:40 - Preserving a digital work 01:15:43 - The thinking behind the series size 01:19:45 - What's next? Harm van den Dorpel: https://x.com/harmvddorpel  Quantizer: https://verse.works/series/quantizer-by-harm-van-den-dorpel?itemId=2f5761c0-0e42-4457-a844-6bd9f854adf5

00:44 - Welcome Harm van den Dorpel and Regina Harsanyi 03:05 - Nasty Nets, Club Internet and the early surf clubs 09:05 - Creating context and community through curation 12:40 - Ongoing scepticism around blockchain and NFTs 18:00 - Left Gallery, early blockchain based ownership and speculation 20:10 - The speed of secondary in the digital world 22:00 - On creating Quantizer 27:10 - A true reflection of the blockchain and networked broadcast 33:40 - The ideal way to display and experience the work 41:30 - The expressive power of the blockchain Harm van den Dorpel: https://x.com/harmvddorpelRegina Harsanyi: https://x.com/reginaharsanyi           

00:35 - Welcome Steve McKeon 02:25 - Navigating the dot-com boom and bust 08:19 - A winding path to tenure 13:20 - Discovering crypto 15:50 - Writing Traditional Asset Tokenisation 19:30 - The birth of Collab+Currency 24:50 - A shift to consumer focus and NFTs 28:30 - Equity vs tokens 33:45 - The Art Blocks [500] 36:15 - Collectibility and end caps 38:05 - Traditional art, sculpture and Jim Dine 45:20 - Donald Judd and Marfa 49:30 - The birth of Glitch 53:45 - An investment thesis based on passion 55:33 - Collecting personally vs fund investment 01:01:20 - The future of the space and growth of digital culture 01:06:21 - Infrastructure companies, user lock-in and network effects 01:11:11 - Verse round table 01:12:25 - SOLOS points 01:27:39 - Terence Broad and (un)stable equilibrium 01:33:13 - Curatorial practice and thoughts on artist guidance 01:42:44 - What is an NFT artist 01:45:25 - Reclaiming the term NFT 01:47:00 - Artist highlights pt 101:48:44 - Catching up on fxhash 01:54:00 - Artist highlights pt 2 01:55:35 - Verse rundown Steve McKeon: https://x.com/sbmckeonAL: https://x.com/alekustn Mark Horowitz: https://www.instagram.com/marchorowitz Terence Broad: https://x.com/terrybroad Harm van den Dorpel: https://x.com/harmvddorpel Jonathan Chomko: https://x.com/jtchomko benedict: https://x.com/ibenedictfuc12 canek zapata: https://x.com/canekzapata Rocio Mio: https://x.com/rociomiobosque  

03:00 - Luba Elliott on Terence Broad 04:15 - Autoencoding Blade Runner 09:25 - Machine learning in 2016 12:31 - Arriving at the crossroads of technology and art 15:35 - Why Blade Runner? 19:05 - Luba and Terrence's collaboration through Feral File 22:06 - (un)stable equilibrium 25:00 - The conceptual journey behind the work 29:50 - Imperfect copies and more constraints 31:35 - The construction of the final video pieces 34:55 - A renewed mainstream interest in the work 40:01 - Looping in latent space 41:49 - Future explorations around (un)stable equilibrium 44:53 - The possibilities NFTs open up for a digital practice  https://x.com/terrybroad https://x.com/elluba https://verse.works/series/un-stable-equilibrium-by-terence-broad?itemId=07c502f4-8cec-47bf-9eac-8a9c0d2a0bc0           

00:50 - Welcome Roger Dickerman 02:48 - The importance of a physical space 06:02 - Roger's journey into digital art 07:45 - A deliberate imbalance 11:02 - Controlling the bookends 14:15 - The birth of Artifex and 24 Hours of Art 20:25 - Sustainability and longevity 22:35 - Putting the work in and riding out the bear 24:45 - A process of iteration and evolution 28:35 - "One foot in the market, one foot firmly in the love of the art" 30:05 - The objectivity of price action35:31 - How to define excellence and quality in art 39:25 - The impact of exposure to work 42:00 - Feeling vs technical precision 46:07 - A new energy in the space 48:30 - Testing convictions and responding to crisis 52:18 - Community, Sam Spratt and the power of participation 58:58 - Acting with focus and intention 01:01:45 - Ingredients for success 01:05:30 - Assessing the market and thinking about trajectory 01:10:30 - Verse roundtable 01:11:05 - The Art Blocks 500 01:16:15 - Eternalising a time period and creating canon 01:23:10 - Institutional interest and supporting collectors 01:24:45 - Takashi Murakami's 108 Flowers Revised 01:37:28 - Traditional artists' impact on the perception of space 01:43:02 - Speculation and gambling 01:47:15 - Taking personal responsibility for purchases and decisions 01:51:07 - Murakami's tweet and lack of awareness 01:52:50 - The complexity of collecting work on the blockchain 01:57:45 - Collecting to be part of a community vs collecting with an awareness of price potential 02:03:49 - Dalos Dov's Do Machines Dream of Human Bodies 02:06:30 - Valent's Athanasia 02:11:30 - The importance of authentic community engagement 02:21:46 - Verse rundown Roger Dickerman: https://x.com/rogerdickerman 24 Hours of Art: https://x.com/24_hours_artPaul Pfeiffer: https://www.instagram.com/pmp2021 itsgalo: https://x.com/galoandstuff  brawlers world: https://x.com/brawlersworldValent: https://x.com/0xvalent Dalos Dov: https://x.com/dalos 

This week we sat down with seasoned advisor Eli Scheinman to discuss his new role at Art Basel, what’s driving the market’s fresh momentum, how today’s collectors are maturing and how to frame emerging work for a more traditional crowd.00:50 - Welcome Eli Scheinman 02:39 - Why the market's moving 04:30 - The trickle-down effect of big sales 07:07 - New entrants into the space 09:48 - The flow from collectibles and PFPs into art 14:37 - Eli's role with Art Basel 21:30 - Evolving in the face of a challenging market 23:00 - How to create excitement and understanding among new audiences 24:30 - Context is key 28:49 - World-building, narrative and sponsorship 33:04 - Collections as an identity layer and a discovery tool 34:50 - Friction points when onboarding from the traditional space 40:20 - How things have changed across cycles 46:00 - Lower barriers to participation in the digital space and their effects49:00 - The maturation of the core collector base 51:10 - Kim Asendorf's PXL DEX, private sales and new points of discovery 56:45 - Artist highlights 01:02:40 - Social media's impact on an artists career Eli Scheinman: https://x.com/eli_scheinKaryn Nakamura: https://www.instagram.com/frog_spit_simulation Canek Zapata: https://x.com/canekzapata Agoston Nagy: https://x.com/_stc Li Yi-Fan: https://www.instagram.com/liyifanyifanli                         

This week Leyla sits down with artist and filmmaker Nikita Diakur to explore his journey in the art and film worlds, spotlighting his acclaimed short film 'Ugly'. They dive into the film's themes and the creative process behind it, as well as his artistic identity, experiences with NFTs, and his upcoming exhibition on Verse with SOLOS. 00:40 - Welcome Nikita Diakur 02:20 - Identity and a multi faceted creative path03:15 - Finding inspiration06:04 - Exploring the themes in Ugly 10:40 - Unpacking the creative process and the role of simulation17:08 - The expansion of the Ugly world 18:40 - Opening the treasure box, unfinished works and future exhibitions 21:05 - The role of lived experience in Nikita's work 23:50 - Art, politics and the message behind Ugly 26:02 - Finding NFTs and the web3 space 29:49 - Working with Colección Solo 32:28 - A glimpse into Nikita's upcoming SOLOS show on Verse38:02 - Balancing parallel creative practices       

This week we sat down with former General Manager of CryptoPunks and founder of StoneWork Natalie Stone, and artist, gallerist and broker Shane Lavalette. We unpack Stone's journey into NFTs, Node’s Punks acquisition, and the enduring passion of the community as well as the evolution of curation and collector identity, Shane's thought process when looking at an artist's body of work and the value of transparency and provenance.00:30 - Welcoming Natalie Stone and Shane Lavalette 02:44 - Stone's path into NFTs and her work with CryptoPunks 06:40 - The significance of Node's Punks acquisition 09:50 - The future of CryptoPunks under Node 12:40 - The resilience and passion of the Punks community 16:30 - Will there be another project as significant for the space18:13 - First order of business for Node 20:05 - How time has shaped community dynamics 21:38 - The maturation of the space and collector curation 24:00 - Curating as an expression of identity 29:00 - Developing taste, the role of education and exposure 32:40 - Notable collections and collectors 34:55 - Shane's background in the arts and introduction to NFTs  37:32 - The importance of brokering and advisory services 43:24 - Creating space for emerging voices 44:44 - Diving deep and collecting against the trend 51:10 - Dream collecting, "if money were no object" 52:28 - Shane's list in GrailersDAO 55:05 - Balancing transparency with a simplified marketplace experience 59:28 - The importance of provenance  01:01:48 - Artist highlights 01:07:37 - Verse Rundown Shane Lavalette: https://x.com/shanelavalette Stone: https://x.com/naughtaliestone bhare: https://x.com/bhareboy0009: https://x.com/0009ineKlea McKenna: https://x.com/klea_mckennaNoah Kalina: https://noahkalina.com/chickencameraMolly Soda: https://mollysoda.exposedRalph Lemon: https://www.momaps1.org/en/programs/377-ceremonies-out-of-the-air-ralph-lemon                      

We sat down this week with long-form generative pioneer Tyler Hobbs to explore Day Gardens, his new body of work released with La Collection at Art Basel this week. They dive into the balance between personal life and artistic career, and the future of generative art in a rapidly changing landscape, as well as the effect of audience expectations and market dynamics on a creative practice.00:50 - Welcome Tyler Hobbs 04:50 - The evolution of Tyler's artistic journey 10:20 - Consistency and integrity and putting the work first 13:22 - Art Blocks and the shift to digitally focused distribution 15:50 - Navigating between the digital and physical artworlds 21:20 - The importance of saying no, learning when to say yes 25:49 - Thinking about release cadence and managing time 27:30 - Exploring Day Gardens 33:20 - Dealing with the noise and finding balance 39:25 - The increasing speed of culture 41:45 - Thinking about audience expectations and the effect of a legacy 47:00 - QQL and exploring new formats 50:15 - Cultivating community and stepping back 56:00 - What made Fidenza resonate 56:27 - The evolution of generative art and future directions59:10 - Different ways of creating and engaging with the space 01:01:20 - Diewiththemostlikes and a new wave of superstar artists 01:02:50 - Prioritising fun over a traditional approach 01:06:50 - Social commentary and online performance 01:08:30 - Changing perspectives and open mindedness 01:11:55 - Artist highlights 01:61:21 - Verse Rundown Tyler Hobbs - https://x.com/tylerxhobbs Jack Butcher - https://x.com/jackbutcher Shl0ms - https://x.com/shl0ms diewiththemostlikes - https://x.com/toadswiback Sarah Zucker - https://x.com/thesarahshow                      

Jamie and Leyla sit down with artist Erik Swahn in advance of his upcoming series Soma. They discuss his artistic evolution, the impact of attention on creativity, and the relationship between colour and music. The conversation delves into the title and concept of Soma, as well as Erik's thoughts on the future of his artistic practice. 01:10 - Welcome Erik Swahn 02:40 - The effect of attention on the creative process 04:30 - From architecture to art 06:39 - Discovering NFTs 08:31 - The impact of fxhash and community 10:30 - Exploring the success of Farbteiler  12:00 - The relationship between colour and music 14:19 - Fields, abstraction and the sublime 16:50 - An evolving practice and the influence of the Baroque 18:43 - How time frames work differently 23:40 - The weight of expectation 25:50 - A flattening of art history 27:25 - The emergence of Soma 29:38 - An ongoing preoccupation with colour 31:25 - The significance of a smaller series and a finite frame 35:30 - A brave new world and finding inspiration in the abstract39:41 - Shared attention and the power of art Erik Swahn: https://x.com/erikswahn        

Jamie and Leyla sit down with Sofia Garcia to explore her journey through digital art, from the early days of ARTXCODE and building lasting relationships, to navigating the 2021 hype and envisioning the future of art in the age of the internet.1:00 - Welcome Sofia Garcia 05:25 - The birth of ARTXCODE 10:50 - Selling works at CADAF and the first mint 17:10 - Finding an organic aesthetic in the digital 18:42 - The state of the community circa 2019 23:37 - The pandemic and a move to digital curation 26:55 - The early perception and growth of NFTs 31:55 - 2021 and navigating the hype 37:40 - Taking ARTXCODE full time 40:17 - Thoughts on collecting, curation and the current digital art zeitgeist 42:55 - A fluid definition of a practice 45:14 - Artist representation 49:58 - Honest feedback and understanding collector expectations 52:00 - Building a roster and working relationships 54:25 - A support system based on shared values 01:01:02 - Thoughts on gatekeeping 01:08:01 - What does the future of art look like 01:12:20 - A holistic approach to the digital art space 01:16:30 - Sales and the realities of curating blockchain-based art 01:20:42 - What's next for ARTXCODE 01:27:09 - Sophia's dream artist to sign 01:29:09 - Artist highlights 01:37:06 - Verse rundown Sofia Garcia: https://x.com/sofiagarcia_ioMika Ben Amar: https://x.com/100o111 enigmatriz: https://x.com/enigmatriz Frank Manzano: https://x.com/loved_orleer Kevin Esherick: https://x.com/kev_esh Mr Richi: https://x.com/richi0118 Mr Richi - It's Just JPEGs: https://x.com/richi0118/status/1931643514003111974?s=46&t=Y0qIYiBAAsy4ea-t-FfRQw                  

Jay, Jamie, Ivan and Leyla sit down together and examine the markets growing optimism, gallery models, transparency and creating value and confidence for both artists and collectors.     01:00 - Jay's summer break 05:53 - Twitter toxicity and curating your social feeds 09:30 - The market's heating up 15:40 - Speculation vs desire  18:30 - The confidence speculation can inspire in a collector base 19:50 The benefits and difficulties of playing in an emergent space 22:10 - Jay and Jamies' collecting thesis 27:37 - Financial realities and looking for a return 29:20 - Advice for new entrants to the space 33:00 - Balancing business, artist and collector interests 40:45 - Making the market 44:03 - What creates confidence and value around an artist 47:00 - Building market confidence and adopting a Gagosian model 53:16 - Artifice, transparency and creating real demand 56:33 - The issues with pursuing a traditional gallery model in the web3 space 01:02:50 - How important is a program and justifying time spent 01:08:38 - A difference in approaches between the traditional and web3 spaces 01:11:33 - The importance of a diversified program 01:12:45 - Artist Highlights 01:15:03 - Evolving collector tastes 01:17:45 - "The subject matter doesn't make the piece" 01:20:03 - Has the space's aesthetic been calcified? Skygolpe: https://x.com/skygolpe  Jack: https://x.com/franskeej  Frank Manzano: https://x.com/loved_orleer  Itsgalo: https://x.com/galoandstuff  ex_mortal_: https://x.com/ex_mortal_  canek zapata: https://x.com/canekzapata  Robinson St. George: https://x.com/rbnsnstgrg  skomra: https://x.com/skomra  neuraldivine: https://x.com/neural_divine  MCHX: https://x.com/mchx17  DJKero: https://x.com/djkero  Greg Nikshumika: https://x.com/gregnikshumika  Kyle Flemmer: https://x.com/wildmissingnos  Nicolas Sassoon: https://x.com/nicolas_sassoon  Jeres: https://x.com/heyjeres  Erik Swahn: https://x.com/erikswahn  Godmin Lilan Yang: https://www.instagram.com/lilanyang.studio