Thoughts on Change: How to herd humans without losing your mind

What actually makes change stick?Is it:the tool? the process? the storyboard? the training? Or is it something much deeper?In this episode of Thoughts on Change, I sit down with Mark Rosenthal and Laurel Martin to unpack one of the biggest challenges in Continuous Improvement:Why organizations can implement Lean tools… and still struggle to create lasting behavior change.And honestly? This conversation gets to the heart of what real change leadership actually looks like. What We ExploreWe dig into:why psychological safety matters in Continuous Improvement how leaders unintentionally reinforce the wrong behaviors why curiosity is more powerful than blame the difference between compliance and genuine engagement how Kata and TWI are often misunderstood as “tools” instead of leadership development systems what it really means to “integrate, not implement” why unresolved disagreement at the leadership level quietly kills transformation efforts and how sustainable culture change happens through repeated responses—not presentations  One of My Favorite MomentsOne of the strongest themes in this conversation is this shift:Instead of asking:“How do we get people to comply?”What if we asked:“What kind of response are we reinforcing?”Because every leadership reaction teaches people something.When leaders respond with:blame defensiveness pressure control People learn to:hide problems avoid risk stay quiet protect themselves But when leaders respond with:curiosity experimentation safety learning People begin to think differently.And that’s where culture shifts. The Power of the First ReactionWe also talk about how important those first few seconds are when something goes wrong.That moment when:a standard isn’t followed an experiment fails someone raises a concern resistance appears Your first reaction matters more than you think.Because leaders are constantly teaching people:·       what is safe·       what gets punished·       what gets rewarded·       and what kinds of thinking are welcome Compliance vs CommitmentOne of the biggest takeaways from this episode:Compliance is not the same thing as commitment.If your change effort depends entirely on:convincing harder presenting more data pushing people toward agreement You may get short-term compliance……but not real ownership.Real teamwork requires:trust safety involvement and genuine alignment  A Powerful ReframeOne line from the conversation that really stuck with me:“Integrate, don’t implement.”Because sustainable change doesn’t happen when we drop a Lean tool into an organization and hope people use it.It happens when:people understand it it fits their context it solves a meaningful problem and leaders reinforce the behaviors needed to sustain it  What This Means for CI LeadersIf you work in:Continuous Improvement Operational Excellence Lean leadership manufacturing leadership culture transformation organizational change This episode is a reminder that your real job isn’t installing tools.It’s shaping:systems responses behaviors and learning environments  Reflection QuestionsAs you listen, think about:What behaviors are being reinforced in my organization right now? How do leaders respond when problems surface? Are we building compliance… or capability? What reactions are unintentionally creating fear or defensiveness? Are we integrating improvement into culture—or just implementing tools?  The Big TakeawaySustainable change is not about:·       installing a storyboard·       running a workshop·       forcing agreementIt’s about intentionally shaping how people think, respond, learn, and engage over time.That’s the real work. Connect with the GuestsThis episode features insights from:Mark Rosenthal Laurel Martin Both bring deep experience in Lean thinking, leadership development, Kata, and organizational learning. Enjoying the Podcast?If you’re trying to move culture instead of just install tools, hit subscribe and share this with another CI warrior who’s navigating the messy human side of change.Video

If you work in CI, helping probably feels like second nature. In fact, it’s probably one of the reasons you got into this work in the first place. But here’s the uncomfortable question we’re digging into today: Is your helping actually helping?There’s a fine line between helping people grow and accidentally creating dependence. And if you cross that line, your help can quietly become harmful—for them and for you.The Hidden Trap for CI LeadersMany of us in CI become the scheduler, organizer, reminder system, problem solver, answer machine. At first, that support may be necessary. But over time? You can unintentionally train teams to rely on you instead of building their own capability. That’s when frustration grows, burnout starts creeping in, resistance increases, and you become the bottleneck in the very change you’re trying to create.What You’ll LearnIn this episode, we continue the C.H.A.N.G.E. Shaper™ series by unpacking the second characteristic:Help with IntentionYou’ll learn:the difference between helpful help and hurtful helphow overhelping creates dependency in teamshow to recognize when you’ve crossed the “helpful line”practical ways to step back without abandoning peoplehow boundaries can actually increase your credibility and respectThe Vicious Cycle of OverhelpingOverhelping creates a pattern that looks like this:You step in to help: → people depend on you → you become overwhelmed → frustration builds → resistance increases → burnout follows.Helping with Intention Looks DifferentHelping with intention does not mean abandoning people, withholding support, or saying “figure it out yourself”. It means being intentional about what support they actually need, what capability they need to build next, and how you can help them grow without becoming dependent on you.Powerful Questions to Ask Instead of Giving AnswersOne of the biggest shifts? Moving from answering to asking. Some favorite coaching questions from the episode:“What problem are you trying to solve?”“What do you already know about that?”“How could you find that out?”“Who else might know more about this?”“How could you test your understanding?”Sometimes giving the answer quickly is just another form of doing the work for them. And as uncomfortable as it can feel, stepping back may actually be the most supportive thing you can do.Reflection QuestionsThink about a current project or team you’re supporting. Ask yourself:Where am I stepping in too quickly?Who am I unintentionally training to depend on me?Am I helping because it’s best for them… or because it feels safer for me?What question could I ask instead of giving the answer?The ShiftHelping with intention shifts you: from hero to leader. That’s where sustainable change starts to happen.What’s NextNext up in the C.H.A.N.G.E. Shaper™ series: Advocating for What Is Really ImportantIn noisy organizations, helping people improve isn’t enough—you also need to know how to connect change to what truly matters.Want More Support?Most of the women I work with aren’t struggling because they lack knowledge or skill.They’re struggling because their approach isn’t landing the way they think it is. They’re overhelping and overexplaining. And exhausting themselves trying to create change.That’s exactly what we work through inside Credible. Heard. Used.You’ll find more information hereVideo

If you’re struggling to get engagement with your change efforts, there’s a good chance the problem isn’t their resistance……it’s your lack of connection.I know—this one can sting a little.In Continuous Improvement, we’re trained to focus on tools, systems, and results. But the truth is, none of those things work without people. And when we stop seeing people as people—and start seeing them as the means to get our change implemented—we unintentionally invite the very resistance we’re trying to avoid.In this episode, we kick off the C.H.A.N.G.E. Shaper™ series with the foundation of everything: Connecting with curiosity and compassion.And no—this is not “soft stuff.”This is skilled work.This is influence.This is what makes change actually stick.What You’ll LearnWhy pushing harder often creates more resistance What it really means to “connect” (without oversharing or crossing boundaries) The 3 simple steps to connect with people in real time:  1: Read the room, 2: Meet people where they are, 3: Ask permission before diving into change How curiosity helps you avoid assumptions and actually understand what’s going on Why compassion doesn’t mean agreeing—it means understanding How resistance is often rooted in fear and uncertainty (not defiance) The ShiftWhen you lead change without connection, people feel:managed pushed overlooked When you lead with curiosity and compassion, people feel:seen respected willing to engage And that shift?That’s where credibility starts to build.Try ThisThink about a change you’re working on right now.Now think about one person you need on board.Ask yourself:Did I actually connect with them as a person? Did I read the room before jumping in? Did I ask for permission—or just push forward? Did I come in curious… or already convinced I knew the answer? Did I make them feel understood—or dismissed? No judgment here. Just awareness.Because awareness is where better choices start.Key ReminderConnection is not soft work. It’s skilled work.And it’s where real influence—and real change—begins.What’s NextIn the next episode, we’ll build on this foundation and talk about the second characteristic of a C.H.A.N.G.E. Shaper™:Helping with intention — and why the way you help might actually be slowing people down.Want More Support?If this episode had you thinking, “Wow… I’ve definitely been there,” you’re not alone.I’m opening up a small group experience for women in Continuous Improvement:Credible. Heard. Used.This is for you if:Your ideas aren’t landing the way you intend You’re feeling resistance and not sure why You want to influence without pushing harder Check out the link below. 00:00 Engagement Isn’t the Problem00:57 Meet the CHANGE Shaper01:54 Why Connection Matters04:08 Three Steps to Connect06:57 Example Conversation With Kim08:56 Curiosity Builds Clarity12:12 Compassion Isn’t Caving14:45 Reflect and Apply Today16:31 Wrap Up and What’s Next16:57 Program Invite and Closing Links:https://www.kellymallery.com/changeshaperhttps://www.kellymallery.com/credibleheardusedVideo:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v

In this episode of “Thoughts on Change,” Kelly proposes a shift from pushing change to “shaping what’s possible” through credibility and influence. She defines a “change shaper” as someone who shows up effectively when resistance appears, regardless of title, and outlines six characteristics: connect with curiosity and compassion to create safety; help with intention to build others’ capability without rescuing; advocate for what truly matters by linking change to purpose, values, and priorities; navigate the business environment by understanding pressures, informal networks, and organizational politics while translating between leaders and frontline teams; get the right people involved rather than convincing everyone; and energize positive momentum by celebrating small wins and highlighting progress. She emphasizes practice over perfection and previews deeper future episodes.00:00 Why Change Pushes Back00:33 Meet Thoughts on Change01:02 Becoming a Change Shaper02:20 Connect with Curiosity03:21 Help with Intention04:03 Advocate What Matters04:43 Navigate Business Politics05:38 Get the Right People06:19 Energize Momentum06:56 Practice Over Perfection07:20 Wrap Up and Next Steps Links:https://youtu.be/yjrXy_0Z2Xchttps://www.kellymallery.com/changeshaper

Kelly introduces Thoughts On Change as a podcast about the human side of leading change and explains the recent progression from “Resistobots” (internal reactions to discomfort) to the Transform framework and now a focus on credibility. She shares feedback, especially from women in continuous improvement roles, who are doing the work but want to be trusted to lead real change. Kelly argues credibility isn’t an add-on or ego-driven goal but an outcome that emerges from how leaders respond under pressure, handle pushback, balance empathy with direction, and move change forward without steamrolling people. By noticing Resistobots and shifting from automatic reactions to observing, revealing root causes, and making alliances, leaders reduce feelings of being managed and build momentum without burnout. She names this way of being “the change shaper,” previews upcoming practical applications (“being fluent in change”), and invites listeners to the next episode. 00:00 Welcome to the Show00:36 Series Shift Explained01:19 Why Credibility Matters02:05 Credibility Emerges03:11 Becoming a Change Shaper04:34 You Are Right on Time05:01 Fluent in Change Preview06:05 Next Episode Teaser06:21 Closing and Sendoff Links:https://www.kellymallery.com/thoughtsonchange Video:https://youtu.be/-RlhNi37Duo

Kelly Mallery introduces the first CI Warrior interview on Thoughts On Change with Abby Kovarik, a continuous improvement specialist at Raymond Corp (a Toyota Material Handling brand), who focuses on strengthening people, clarifying work, and building problem-solving confidence. Abby shares how an internship during college led her into lean, including a mindset shift about inventory as waste, and defines muda through the TIMWOODS wastes, emphasizing unused skills as especially important. She discusses early challenges as a young woman in a male-dominated environment, learning to manage emotions, communicate passion professionally, and recognize the human side of change. Abby describes 12 weeks of coaching with Kelly that helped her slow down, notice control patterns, and become more intentional. She now prioritizes culture change by enabling teams and engaging leadership so lean becomes “how we do business,” advising others that they don’t need to fix things to be valuable. 00:00 Welcome to Thoughts On Change00:34 Meet Abby Kovarik02:36 Abby’s CI Origin Story04:25 Lean Mindset Shift06:22 Muda and TIMWOODS10:49 Choosing a CI Career12:40 Challenges as a Woman17:26 Bringing the Human Element20:37 Coaching Takeaways23:12 From Doer to Culture Builder26:12 Advice for CI Warriors28:35 Connect and Wrap Up Connect with Abby Kovarik:https://www.linkedin.com/in/abby-kovarik-b81519202/Video:https://youtu.be/jrBTr9PXM0s

Kelly explains that even with integrity, clear intent, relationships, and gemba time, credibility won’t stick without delivering results—solving not only the requested problem but also the hidden, unspoken one. She describes three layers behind common CI requests like “we need 5S”: the surface tool request, the performance gap (missed output, delays, excess inventory), and the deeper systems-and-behaviors layer where cultural friction determines whether change sustains. Implementing only what’s asked can actually hurt credibility because leaders expect the real problem to be solved. Kelly emphasizes two skills to reach deeper layers: insatiable curiosity through strong questions and judgment-free observation. In a 5S example, she uncovered output issues and leadership behaviors, coached both the team lead and leader, solved all three layers, and became a trusted cultural partner. She closes with actionable questions, a share/subscribe request, workshop offer, and a teaser for a first CI Warrior interview episode.00:00 Credibility Needs Results01:57 Why Tools Alone Fail03:43 Three Layers of Problems06:03 Skills to Go Deeper06:25 5S Story in Practice10:57 Action Steps and Questions12:24 Share Subscribe Next Episode13:22 Final Wrap and Mantra Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl7E_s4YF7k Links:https://www.kellymallery.com/workshops

In this episode of 'Thoughts on Change,' Kelly explores the critical role of intent in building credibility during change initiatives. Understanding that people judge us based on our behavior while we judge ourselves by our intent is crucial. Kelly discusses how to bridge this gap by clearly stating our intentions and ensuring our actions align with them. She offers practical steps for examining and declaring your motives and stresses the importance of assuming positive intent to maintain trust. Tune in for actionable insights on how to influence change effectively without losing your credibility. 00:00 Introduction to Intent and Credibility01:15 Understanding Intent: Motives and Perceptions03:11 Real-Life Example: The Hour-by-Hour Tracking System04:10 Lessons on Declaring and Aligning Intent07:20 Practical Tips for Building Credibility08:38 Conclusion and Next Steps Video:https://youtu.be/ZmGb5bRjFtU Links:https://www.kellymallery.com/coaching

In this episode of 'Thoughts on Change,' host Kelly delves into the discrepancy CI (Continuous Improvement) professionals often feel between their potential contributions and the tasks leaders assign to them. Emphasizing the politics, emotions, and human aspects of leading change, Kelly explores why CI practitioners struggle with credibility and influence. The discussion focuses on integrity as a cornerstone of credibility, highlighting its practical and visible nature in leadership roles. Through personal anecdotes and actionable advice, listeners learn how to align their actions with their words and values, thereby enhancing their credibility and fostering culture change. The episode sets the stage for future discussions on influence and credibility, inviting listeners to follow on social media for more insights.00:00 Introduction: The CI Role Dilemma00:23 Welcome to Thoughts on Change00:53 The Credibility Challenge02:16 Understanding Integrity in CI02:54 Practical Examples of Integrity04:23 Dealing with Integrity Gaps05:24 Building Credibility Through Integrity06:25 Conclusion and Next Steps06:59 Closing Remarks Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DidskX0jgDMLinks:https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-mallery-coaching/https://www.instagram.com/kellymallerycoaching/

In this episode of Thoughts On Change, Kelly discusses how change leaders often create the resistance they face and introduces various archetypes, dubbed 'Resistobots,' which embody different counterproductive behaviors. These include Commandax (the controller), Factron (the rational), Softstep (the accommodator), Shellout (the avoider), Quickshift (the fixer), and Doctrina (the preacher). Kelly shares a personal story about encountering resistance at an aerospace manufacturer and explains how identifying and addressing the root causes of resistance, rather than fighting it, leads to more effective change management. Listeners are encouraged to transform their approach by facing their resist bots, observing the scene, revealing roots of resistance, and making alliances with empathy and curiosity.00:00 Introduction to Thoughts On Change00:49 Understanding Resistance in Change01:51 Types of Resistance Fighters02:43 Real-Life Example: Overcoming Resistance04:49 Meet the Resist Bots07:06 Defeating Your Resist Bots09:16 Conclusion and ResourcesPodcast Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYi9x8aLdrQhttps://www.kellymallery.com/workshopshttps://www.kellymallery.com/findyourresistobothttps://www.kellymallery.com/transform

In this episode of Thoughts on Change, host Kelly explores why people resist change—even when they deal with it constantly. The answer isn't about change itself, but about the future people imagine. Kelly unpacks the psychology behind change resistance, introducing the concept of change as a "two-sided coin" where people either see gain or loss. Learn how to identify the fear of loss driving resistance and discover practical approaches from the Transform framework to help people see the positive side of change.Timestamped Show Notes0:00 - Introduction Kelly introduces the podcast and sets up the central question: why does change make us "kick and scream" when we experience it so frequently?2:31 - Understanding Change Reactions Exploring what really happens when people experience change and why it's so difficult to shepherd people through workplace changes.2:31 - The Two-Sided Coin of Change Kelly introduces the metaphor of change as a two-sided coin, using the example of bringing home a newborn to illustrate how the same change can be viewed as magical or nightmarish depending on perspective.5:49 - The Fear of Loss Understanding why people picture negative stories where they lose something, especially with changes they didn't choose—like most workplace changes.7:04 - Revealing the Root Kelly shares the third step of her Transform framework: revealing the root of resistance by identifying what people fear they will lose (autonomy, control, authority, purpose).8:25 - Wrap Up Kelly teases the next episode and encourages listeners to subscribe and share with fellow change leaders.Podcast Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJhLq4ce4os

Welcome to the very first episode of Thoughts on Change! This podcast is for practical change makers—CI practitioners, culture leaders, and anyone trying to drive meaningful change without losing their minds.In this episode, host Kelly introduces the show and shares why it exists: to help you navigate the messy, emotional, and deeply human side of leading change. Too often, change leaders are treated like doers instead of thinkers, asked to implement tools rather than transform culture. This podcast bridges that gap.You'll learn what to expect from future episodes, including insights into credibility, intent, and integrity; real stories from the trenches; and practical takeaways you can use immediately. Kelly also shares her background in manufacturing and continuous improvement, and why she's passionate about helping you lead change with confidence and influence.Key Takeaway: Progress beats perfection. Curiosity beats control. And culture beats everything.Timestamped Show Notes00:00 - Introduction Welcome to Thoughts on Change—the podcast about the messy, human side of leading change00:57 - The Problem: Doers vs Thinkers Why change leaders are often treated as implementers rather than strategic thinkers02:36 - What This Podcast Offers Three things every episode will deliver: insights, stories, and practical takeaways02:37 - What's Coming A preview of upcoming topics: credibility, intent, integrity, resistance, and the Transform framework03:56 - About Kelly Kelly's decade-plus experience in manufacturing, CI, and leading culture change04:50 - Call to Action How to subscribe, follow, and start noticing the small moments where credibility matters most Podcast Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhY8l8CHbCY