D.B. Cooper

We're 12 minutes in, baby. Oh, baby. All right. Use my saying Kristen Stewart is a bad actress as the intro. Okay. Thanks. Or just that part. Or just that part. No way. Oh, my God. No way. Welcome, everybody, to episode 110 of 1 million of the Serial Chillers podcast. I ask, as I do every time, how goes it? Hello, Greg. It's phenomenal, man. New camera. Hello, Greg over there. Yeah, I got all the angles now. Greg's not even here anymore. This is a different place. He's on Mars. Back to the bunker.

Well, good to hear, Greg. We're also here with Mama Shy and Clayton. We'll get into some full introductions with them in a moment. But first, you guys as guests know how the show works. Everybody listening knows. If you don't, let me tell you how. Each week I sit down with old friends, new friends, good friends, and bad friends to tell a story of an infamous serial killer, something true crime, dark, creepy, unsolved, or otherwise mysterious. If something isn't clear, be sure to chime in because if you have questions about questions, be sure to ask questions because I can't answer questions about questions if you never ask questions. Are there any questions? Not as a guest.

No. Well, then welcome to and let's play the Serial Chillers podcast. You guys are in for a treat because for the first time ever, I will be hosting a non-serial killer episode. What? Yes. So if you notice in the intro, I said that I will be doing things that are serial killer, true crime, dark, creepy, and otherwise mysterious. So today, for the first time ever, again, you guys will be here. We're doing more of an event. This is an unsolved crime.

Oh, snap. If nobody did research based on what you guys saw last week and cheated. I can't remember the name. Good, good, good. I mean, you'll feel great about that, I'm sure. But question number one. Oh, shit. Wait, you haven't yet. That's right. That's true. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Tell me, have you guys heard of Dan Cooper? Dan Cooper? I have not. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. If I'm thinking of the right Dan Cooper. Clayton's eyes lit up, and he may have seen a movie based on this. He's not the guy that jumped from the plane with the money, is he? Question number one. In what year did this event take place?

Oh, do I just say it? No, no, no. Everything will write it down. So in what year did this event take place? You can hide these answers from each other. That's awesome that you guys might be a little bit familiar with this. Mama Shai came in and said, is that? Yeah, it is. You're right. You've got an idea. For some reason, the name Cooper, and I swear to God, I didn't look at it. Okay. Very good. All right. Shai, what'd you say? 1978. Clayton says. 1971. Give Clayton a thousand points because it was indeed 1971. He just hit the year I was born. Wow. I think if I'm not mistaken.

For sure on years, that's the first time someone's nailed it this season. I think that might be the first time someone's stabbed and got 1,000 points. Maybe Eddie and Slewis had one. This is their job to figure out, too. See, if I had the Excel sheet, I'd know. Just kidding, guys. Thanks for your work. Where's their points? Top. Clay Shy. Okay. So Clay's getting 1,000. Yeah. Congratulations, Clayton, on the big start. And here's our full guest intro. So, guys, Clayton with 1,000 points. Well, I'll let Greg do his thing first here. They're on there. Okay. Oh, nice. Clayton, welcome. Hey, man. Yeah, hey. It's been a long time. It's been a while. I think you were on early episodes, and we deleted our first 15.

So there might be some that you're even on that don't exist anymore. So we're bringing you back. We're getting you in the loop. The archived episodes. Yeah. Plus, you were like a child the last time. Yeah, kind of, I guess. Early 20s as a child. Damn it, I'm old. And the person who gave birth to me. Welcome, Mama Shy. Both of these boys. I would say arguably the most popular guest we have. I don't even think it's like arguable. Well, I know there was a fight between me and Paul. There was a lot of Bigfoot and Bobby mixed in, too, I will say. But they were definitely a 1A situation. I'll take it. We've got four very strong guests. Clayton intends to jump into the fold today.

Welcome, guys, to the first non-serial killers episode. I'm going to go through some stuff that's going to be boring to you guys, but it's good to have you here. Give me a minute. The references and citations for this show are going to be, there is actually a new D.B. Cooper episode. D.B. is the name we're all familiar with. Yes, it gets mistaken, and I'll tell you why. But there's a newer D.B. Cooper documentary on Netflix called D.B. Cooper, Where Are You? It's actually from early 2022. When I went to go do this. Yeah, when I went to go do this. Did they drive around in the mystery machine for him? D.B., D.B., D.B., Where Are You?

Um, but it is, it is really cool. It's only like four or six parts, like 40 minute episodes. And it shows a lot of the like FBI investigation. It shows a lot of like the citizen sleuths. Cause I mean, I'm sure you guys might know there's like this case to a lot of people is very important. So, um, also dbcooper.com. Totally a real thing. Totally amazing sources there. Uh, the FBI web archive because, uh, I hope DB Cooper is the one who funded dbcooper.com. Wait until next week. I can't wait to share with you next week's subject website. It's batshit insane. I'll share it with you guys after the show, but.

Jesus. This is a trailer for all of you listening now because it's fucked up. But anyway. Excited. Exactly. And then the good old Wikipedia. So FBI Web Archive has it's an FBI case. It is by far one of the biggest ones, the longest running cases. We know it happened in 1971. So the case is over 50 years old at this point. And it has only recently been considered. It's not closed. I forget the term they use because they still have.

one agent assigned to it. But until five or six years ago, it still had a task force of FBI agents still assigned to the case. I think it was 2016. And we'll get there. I believe they call those chili cases because they're not quite cold cases. I don't know if you're serious or not, but I like it. I'm not. Okay, cool. But hey, FBI, hit up Greg for that. Pat and pinning on that term. Yeah, you're already a joke. Why not hire me? So you guys can find us for social media resources, Instamediagram. Instamediagram. Jesus Christ. Thanks, Grandpa. God damn it.

Fucking boomer. Find us on Instagram and TikTok. We are also on YouTube. So if you're not seeing me right now, you can see me if you go to YouTube. Just don't even edit any of it out. I'm not. That's going to stay. Instamediagram is what I'm calling it from now on. You can get any of our soft goods, t-shirts, hoodies, tank tops, all that good stuff at the Threadless store. There's a new sticker store page that is on our website. You can find links to all of this stuff. Just go to SerialChillersPod.com. You can still call or text the show. That's 805-666-2513.

Patreon.com slash SerialChillersPodcast, but also on SerialChillersPod. So, I mean, if you go to SerialChillersPod, it has a link for everything, but you can donate as little as a dollar a month to the Patreon. You get a shout-out on the show. You're extra cool by us. And if you do five bucks a month, you get all of the episodes one day early. So that's kind of nice, too. And additionally, if you want to ship us stuff so we don't have to give you our personal address, we have to pay for it. P.O. Box 1229 Clovis, California 93613. And again, SerialChillersPod.com. Okay, so this case. Guys, Clayton already got 1,000 points, so we know what happened. It was the day before Thanksgiving, 1971. Very busy day as far as airline travel goes to this day.

The day for Thanksgiving in Portland, Oregon, a man in a suit and a black suitcase approached a ticket counter of Northwest Orient Airlines. He purchased a ticket from Portland to Seattle, which is approximately a 35-minute trip. When asked for a name to be put on the ticket, the man identified himself as Dan Cooper. A lot of us probably have no idea what this would be like because for most of our lives, airports have been like a lockdown, maximum security prison. In the documentary, this author named Brian Burrow discusses airport security at the time and refers to going to the airport in 1971, quote, like walking into the supermarket.

I flew some as a child, like went to Georgia and stuff with my parents and a visited family. And I do remember flying pre 9-11 was so much different. Like I remember having a backpack and just walking through and nobody questioned a child in a backpack. But I've flown post 9-11. Like when we first started the podcast, I had the Yeti microphone in my backpack and I was flying out of San Luis Obispo going to Texas. And they were like, the TSA agent pulled me aside. And he's like, we saw this on the x-ray. Go ahead and open your backpack. And I went, no. And he's like.

Open the backpack. And I went, you open it. He made me open it, and he's like, what is that? And I said, it's a microphone. What does it look like? A micropomp. I go, it's a microphone. What does it look like? And he was like, well, on the x-ray, we thought it was a coffee press. And I'm like, so that's why you had me open it? A coffee press. Did you want to know the brand? What if it had liquid in it? Yeah, so the TSA is a joke, but it was a lot. It was more of a joke back then because you literally could just walk. Except for all of our TSA agents who are listening now. We love you, and you are the serious ones. So, yeah, I don't think I ever flew pre-9-11.

You did when you were a baby. But I remember pre-9-11, Clay used to love airplanes, and I used to go to the Fresno Airport while y'all were at school, and we would just sit there and watch planes take off and land. Can't do that anymore. Oh, God, no. You gotta park out on the...

Yeah. Yeah. So definitely, I don't remember it, but as a kid, do you remember? Did you do any flying like? No, you were a baby. No, I meant you. Oh, no, no. I think the first time I flew is when I flew from Fresno to Vegas with you. Oh, okay. When I was pregnant with Matt, yeah. But I mean, still, how about then? Like, was it? Oh, yeah. That's a pretty equivalent flight, too, because that's only like 47 minutes. Yeah. No, there was nothing. You walked into the airport, you walked to your gate, there was nothing. You can't even pay cash like that anymore, huh? No, you used to be able to walk to the gate. I think you could still walk up and buy a ticket, but it's got to be, you have to have an ID. So, yeah, again, it's a fun documentary. If you guys are, after this, more interested in the case, like, it's, you get

two or three hours it's a good fall asleep while you're watching it's produced really well and some of the kookiest motherfuckers are in it and it's yeah a story like this brings the nuts out of the world I can't wait to make fun of some of them um okay so and of course Greg when I sent him and said hey y'all I'm gonna do DB Cooper he goes oh sick how many without a paddle references can I make oh 84 because I got 84 and that makes a nice even 168 let's go uh so if we reference it a lot it's because it's a uh like at this point a cult classic to anybody right about our age probably I would say it is the the film that launched Dax Shepard's career. Wait, what? Without that, Kristen Bell never would have married him. I would say that it is the movie that introduced a lot of people our age to this case, to D.B. Cooper. I don't think that I was familiar with the case prior to that movie. I knew about it, and I remember thinking that was cool. Because that movie had me, what, 06, 05? Yeah, see, I remember hearing about it when I was a kid. Your dad was in law enforcement. I could see that being... Yeah, but I've always been into weird shit happening. But also...

I didn't know how to, like, research it. Sure, sure. As a kid, so there was no, like, I didn't. You had to get the Britannica. Yeah, I mean, we didn't have encyclopedias, and if we did, I couldn't read, so. You're like, I didn't knock down the guy who was coming around to sell them to us and steal one with the pictures in it. I just grabbed people in suits. Are you TV Cooper? Do you know where he is? So, Cooper is going to board the plane with his briefcase and a brown paper bag. A big, like, grocery size, not, like, lunch size. Is that a pint of liquor? Nah, this is a fowdy, shouty. So he would confidently board the airplane wearing what witnesses describe as either a black or brown suit, a raincoat, white shirt, thin black tie, and brown shoes. So, like.

He was physically described as a male in his mid-40s with dark hair and brown eyes. Am I wrong? No, you're right. Looking dapper, he would board flight 305 on a Boeing 727 and take his seat. Question number two. Potential to take a 2,000-point lead here, Clayton. In what row did Mystery Dan sit? I'm going to refer to him as Mystery Dan a lot. MD. MD, yeah. Old MD. Dirty DD Cooper? How many rows are on the plane? Who knows?

Boeing 727, about how many you think? Give me, what row did he sit in? Think about it, that's a couple of generations before the 757 that we see now. All right, Clayton, you got the row? Maybe, 28? Clayton says 28, Shai says 13. We're gonna give Shai 250 points for being the closest because DB sat in the far back, which at this time would have been row 18 in CE. You're lying, that was gonna be my first guess. Hey, trust your instincts, man. Go with your guts, man. That's right, you still got a 750 point lead. That's true. This is gonna come back later, too. This is gonna tie into my story later, but trust your instincts. Go with your gut. That's right, Greg got some surprises for you guys.

So, upon arriving at his seat in seat 18E, Mystery Dan ordered a bourbon and 7-Up at 2.50 p.m. That's appropriate for an airplane. Right. Sure. So, this day, the flight is scheduled to go from PDX, headed to SeaTac Airport with a flight crew of six. Three in the flight crew and three flight attendants. 37 passengers, including Mystery Dan. Only moments into the flight, the man, known as Dan, looked behind him and saw a flight attendant named Florence Schaffner. Schaffner had been hit on her fair share of time being a flight attendant in the late 60s and early 70s. So, back then, they're called stewardess. That's when you could still smoke on the plane, too. Correct. You could still smoke on the plane. And this...

The D.B. Cooper documentary discusses it, and I never knew about this, apparently. wacky waving inflated alarm flaring too man that's your problem there was a there was a a naked airline like it became like very like so stewardess became sexualized almost instantly when commercial airline travel became um you know popular across the united states stewardess you know we're a country of prudes who sexualize everything uh stewardess became increasingly sexualized and within 10 years of like commercial airline travel popular yeah exactly there was a there was literally a naked airline where like the stewardess would start with her clothes on and as the flight progressed so it was like this big thing that like there was a news channel like that too yeah i think that still exists um But now we're going to call flight attendants because I think it's like calling a master of the custodial arts, a janitor. Well, I think stewardess is the female version. The steward is the male version. But I think they all prefer to be called flight attendants. Yes, a flight attendant is what I haven't written down. If we're wrong, please let us know. We want to get the nomenclature right. I'm 100% down with that. Stewardess sounds more official to me, though. I agree. I believe that it's – I think flight attendant just became like, oh, there's one name. We're all flight attendants. I don't know. It's the gender neutral term. Again, serialchillerspodcast at gmail.com, 805-666-2513, serialchillerspod.com. But if you're going to send us a message through serialchillerspod.com, there is a box you have to check that agrees we are cool.

So if you don't select that box, you cannot send us a message. So, um, yes. Flight crew three, three flight attendants, 37 passengers, including mystery. Dan only moments into the flight sees flight attendant, Florida Schaffner. She's so used to being hit on that he hands her a note and she's like, Oh, thanks. Walks to the back, drops in her bag. Doesn't even open it. She figured it was a phone number. She'll throw it away when she lands. Um, so like, you know, obviously she's, she's dealt with it a lot. Assuming this is the phone number. She throws it into her purse on red. A few moments later, the man signals her over patiently and gracefully. Florence approaches to the surely lonely man. Once again, the man has her lean in close and tells her quote, miss.

You'd better look at that note. I have a bomb. Florence Schaffner opened the piece of paper given to her by Mystery Dan, and the note said, quote, Miss, I have a bomb in my briefcase. I want you to sit by me. Which I don't get why he wasn't just like, hey, listen, I've got a bomb. Sit by me. He's like, hey, go get the note and make sure you read the note. It's a lot of rigmarole. Yeah, I think it's so they don't draw attention. Like, they don't want people to hear that, hey, I have a bomb, because then somebody's going to get a hero complex or something like that. Sure. I think it's more to be like, hey. Well, and you will give credit to this flight crew later.

for how under wraps they were able to keep this. First of all, don't tell me who I'm going to give credit to. Yeah, shut up. I'm your boss. Remember, Eddie said you were. Or Eddie said I was. So since Eddie said it, we've got a fan who told me I was Greg's boss. Pretty much ever since then, I've had a complex about it. So Florence Schaffner opened the piece of paper and read the note about having a bomb. Not sure what to do, she returned the note to Dan and sat down beside him. She's like, fuck it, I'm just going to keep it cool here, you know, like this guy's crazy as shit and I'm in it. Her first request was to see the bomb.

which makes her a braver soul than myself, because if some motherfucker was like, I've got a bomb, my first reaction would be like, can I see it? Yeah, I'd be like, all right, you've got a bomb, cool, man. That's not real. And was Florence Schaffner like a bomb expert? She's going to detonate it? You think that grounding is going to work inside a bomb? Red or blue? Did you make sure to compensate for the change in pressure? Ooh, didn't think about that, did you, Mystery Dan? Nevertheless, Mystery Dan opened the case to show Florence what she described as six red cylinders she believed to be dynamite, which were attached by wires to a large cylindrical battery. Also, would you have been able to handle...

I wouldn't have been able to put together a description like that if someone was like, yeah, it's a bomb and then showed me. I would have been able to describe maybe like what the shit I had shat into my pants felt like maybe, not what this bomb looked like in great detail. No. You seem like you had something you want to say about her description, Greg. Oh, it just made me think of The Simpsons when Skinner and Krabappel were hiding their love from everybody and they were out in front of the school and he was like, I have a bomb. And he opens his jacket and Wiggums with the binoculars and he goes...

Those are hot dogs. Armor hot dogs. And Chalmers goes, what kind of man wears armor hot dogs? Yeah, so I did think that was funny. First of all, she wanted to see it. And then second of all, I had this. Wouldn't you, though? I mean, if you're in a situation where like 38 other people's lives depend on you. I think eventually, yes. I don't know that I would say. Because what's the next move? Like, oh, you don't have one? I mean, if he doesn't have one, then you're just like, you're a drunk idiot. But there's no Sky Marshall at that time. So there are. There are. There have been Sky Marshalls since like the beginning of.

That has always been a thing because I did look into that. But it was not very common at all. It's not even very common now. But that was exactly it. It was spot checking. Spot checking and a lot of international flights. Not a 34-minute trip to Seattle. From Portland to Seattle. Yes, correct. Also, if I'm incorrect about that, someone can let me know. But from what I looked at, they've been around since pretty much commercial travel. Got popular. By plane days. They're the ones who run on the wings.

Now understanding the severity of the situation, Florence began to listen to demands that were put forth by Dan Cooper. She made a note of them, and Dan looked over them. Pleased with it, he politely asked her to calmly take the note to the cockpit and give it to the captain. That's one thing about this entire situation. DB, fucking cool as a cucumber the whole time. Like, the flight attendants describe him, the other passengers near him describe him, the pilots describe him, the FBI agents, everybody describes him as just like, yeah, cool, let's get this done. There's one moment where you'll see a little bit of panic come out in him, but even then it's like...

Man, for what you're doing, this is not very much drama involved. So she... Upon arriving to the cockpit with the requests and corroborating its validity with Captain Scott, she's ordered Florence Schaffner. He ordered Florence Schaffner to now stay in the cockpit and be a recorder of everything that took place from that point forward. So he's not like, oh, cool. Now you go back out there and tell him this. He's like, all right, well, you stay in here now. But that left two more flight attendants still on the floor. They didn't know what was going on? They were getting aware of it. Yeah, for sure. They're all kind of getting that. But that means that Florence Schaffner is up front. He wants the...

Captain Scott essentially says, hey, I want you to record everything from here on out because they need that. It's going to be evidence. He already knows. Like, somebody is hijacking this plane. We need to have every single piece of it that we can. So from then on, the go-between between the captain and D.B. Cooper would be the flight attendant named Tina Mucklau. Question number three. So this one, look it, I try to write the questions evenly to where points, there's the same number, but this one is a third. If you stab, you get it for 1,000. But it is a, you know, it's quite a big thing. So question number three, how much money did Mystery Dan request? Oh, my God.

So he requests a certain exact dollar amount because he wrote it down. Did he request an odd number? I don't know. Did he? Oh, no. How much money did Mystery Dan request? I need it to the penny. You have to be correct. One million dollars. Really? That's it? That's too much? Yeah. You got three seconds. Two. One. All right, what'd you put down?

$500 million. $500 million? I told you that was too much. Man, it's even Dr. Evil didn't. Clayton said $77,000. Clayton's going to get 250 points. $500 million, how did you expect to get anything? I wrote it, and then after I wrote it, I was like, no way, $500 million back in 71? Okay, okay.

It was $200,000, which in today's money is about $1.5 million. You've got to think, you have to jump off a plane with it. You've seen a million dollars at the casino stacked in the glass case. Yes, okay. I feel like an idiot now. $500 million! Also an elephant to carry it. And we're going straight into question number four on this. Besides money...

Let Greg finish, sorry. Besides money, what other specific item did Mystery Dan request in his list of demands? This one, since you guys know the case, is almost going to be a giveaway. But A, his own plane to take him to Cuba. B, parachutes. C, a helicopter to take him to Reno. Or D, immunity.

All right. I know which one I want it to be. Right? Yeah, B. All right. B, he requested parachutes. 250 points to each. Greg, just don't put... Well, no, because we're recording high scores now. Yeah. He's going to say just even them out and don't put any, but yeah, I better add them up. Okay, so the requested amount was $200,000 or about $1.5 million in 2022 monies, which seems low. It does. But he's got to jump out of a plane. Yeah. So I'm not sure if you were like, hey, I'm going to have you hijack a plane. You'll get parachutes. Everything's good. And you're going to get $1.5 million at the end. I'd probably be like...

Could you just give me a job making like 18 bucks an hour or something? Yeah, it's a lot. So I don't know if I could do a skyjacking for that. But Captain William Scott would contact the air traffic control and let them know the skyjacker and the demands. The $200,000 are to be placed in a knapsack. He was very specific about this, you know, like over the top, weatherproof, like army style backpack. And four parachutes. One for me and three for the money. Two front parachutes and two back main parachutes. So part of...

what people think the genius is, is that he asked for four parachutes because it seemed like he was going to take himself and like three hostages. So that's like, Hey, we can't give him dead shoots because you don't know which one he's going to wear. Right. So that was like, they said, like it was one of the genius of the plans is that he asked for a backup shoot. So he asked for two back shoots and two of those, you know, wear them on the belly backup shoots. Yeah. That's, that's smart though. That's that, that's good foresight on his part.

Which brings me to a point that I want to make later. I just want to see if it ties in before I make the point. I don't want to ask my question if it's something you're going to answer. Write it down so you don't forget. I've got it. But also...

That's smart on the part of whoever's doing this, whoever's running the operation to be like, hey, maybe don't screw with stuff because we don't know what this guy is. We don't know enough to start screwing with things. And that's good foresight on their part. So the request for the money was also very specific as well. He asked that the $200,000 be delivered in, quote, negotiable American currency. $200,000 in pesos. I don't want quarters. After the air traffic control confirmed that Mystery Dan's demands were being met, he made a few more for good measure. One was that a refueling truck should meet the plane on the tarmac and fill the 727 up.

In addition to the fuel, Dan asked that all passengers be taken off the flight and only the crew remain. So, I mean, you're already, I think, even if you knew nothing about this case, you're going to get some anti-hero vibes here, right? Like, you see why people are enamored with this case. This is a guy who, like, didn't want to hurt anybody. Didn't pull a gun and scream. Didn't put a box cutter to a flight attendant's neck. Asked for a negligible amount of money. I mean, $1.5 million is probably not negligible. In the grand scheme of things, when you have 40 lives. Insurance is going to pay that off, right? So, this is why people are so in love with this case, is because there is so much...

He doesn't seem like a bad guy. And it takes, like, a lot of times for a crime, like, I don't think it takes a lot of bravery to stick a gun in someone's face and demand an amount of money, right? Like, it takes, like, maybe bravery to be like, oh, shit. Well, you know what I mean, though, right? Like, it doesn't take, like, you could weigh 92 pounds and be 4'1 and put a gun in somebody's face. And, like, it doesn't take an amount of bravery or, like, it's just like, here, here's a gun. You know what this does. Like, the gun is your bravery. In this case, he first of all knew he was going to commit air piracy.

Is that what it's called? Is that the official term for it? Yes. That's fucking badass. Air piracy. I didn't know that. Where was that on career day? And they also, instead of referring to it as an airplane hijacking, it's a skyjacking. See, I had a different thought about what skyjacking was. That doesn't count as the Mile High Club, though. Sorry, buddy. That was going to be my follow-up. So, yes, his demands are being met. It is not a great amount of money. But think about it, too. To collect $1.5 million in cash is different than being like, oh, yeah, we'll wire it to this Jamaican bank account.

At one point, and like I was saying to Shai, like, you ever seen a million dollars in cash? They always do it at casinos. They'll put it in, like, a big, thick glass case. Like, here's a million dollars in $100 bills. That shit is huge. Huge. That's a lot of fucking money. It's 100,000 hundreds. Yeah, exactly. Like, that's, it's a stack that's three and a half feet tall by three and a half. We've seen Breaking Bad. So, I mean, you've seen that scene. Come on, where they're laying on the money. So anyway, in addition to the fuel, Dan asks that the passengers be taken off. We're getting the anti-hero vibes already. He's not hurting anybody. He wants the fucking passengers off. All he needs is the crew.

It was at this time that Dan asked the crew to have all the passengers also move to the front of the plane. So he's operating in a very like, hey, I want them away from me. I don't want anything to do with that. The captain then made an announcement to the crew that their landing would be delayed due to a minor mechanical issue. No one on the plane thought too much of it as the captain had assured them that it wasn't anything dangerous, just something time consuming. That's good heads up awareness by the pilot. Everybody in this case is cool as fuck. It seems like everybody's operating at the highest level. Flight crew.

tits. Passengers, bitching. Dan Cooper, anti-hero? I mean, honestly, I really, everything that I knew about this coming into it, unless you present me with all kinds of weird new information that I don't know, I'm on his side. Because damn the man. Take the empire down. I don't think you'll find very many people that are against him. There are a lot of people that really want to know who he is and want justice to be brought. I don't even want justice. I just want to know who he is. Exactly. I want to shake his hand because good for him. I mean, if he was in his late 40s, 50 years ago, I don't think you're going to get to shake his hand. Okay, so the captain, and then again, Dan pushes him forward, captain goes, oh yeah, we've got a mechanical issue, we're going to go after him.

Fly around. Don't worry about anything. We're going to hit the ground. 72 degrees in Seattle. Local time. 3.04 p.m. So, you know, it's...

So the passenger said there is no ruckus. Everybody's like, oh, shit, all right, move up to the front. It'll be easier to get off when we get off. Nice of the captain's let us do that. Yeah, exactly. So no one on the plane thought too much of it. Again, this captain is sure it was okay. This is confirmed by a man named Bill Mitchell, who was kind of a hero to everybody, the D.B. Cooperites, because Bill Mitchell, a fabled character, for no other reason than he was there and saw Mystery Dan and sat very near him on the flight. So this guy's literally like a legend to people because he was on this flight. And he goes to the D.B. Cooper events. He's like, hey, I'm Bill Mitchell. And everybody's like, we know sick that we fucking met you, Bill Mitchell. But that's what Bill Mitchell said. It's like, oh, yeah.

We thought we were getting moved up to the front. They got a little minor issue and they were taking care of it. So Bill was one of the passengers who landed and was interviewed by a news station only to explain that he and all the other passengers were not aware that they were part of a skyjacking. So the news crew on the ground were like, holy shit, how was it to be up there on a skyjacking? The people coming off the plane were like, free first class, big way, skyjacking. Exactly. They were coming off the plane and learning that the plane they had just come off of. That'd be crazy to come off of me. And they were like, and everybody on the ground knew. Everybody on the ground, the news crews were like, oh my gosh, there's air piracy being committed on this.

On this flight, the 727 coming in right now is going to be landing. It's going to be letting off passengers. I feel like that was a missed opportunity on behalf of the airline to be like, here, please fill out this comment card before you boarding the plane. How was your experience? Good? You were happy about the free first class. Thank you. Thank you for five stars across the board. We really appreciate that. And what happened, too, is that DB made them land on the farthest possible...

So they were like, oh, mechanical issues. So they get off the plane normally. They get on a bus and get driven up. So right up, they get off the bus. It's like a mile away. Airports are fucking huge. So it's like a mile away. They get driven up and the news reporters all come, you know, running up being fucking shitheads and just shoving microphones in their faces, asking them how their skyjacking was. And, you know, again, Bill's like a college freshman at the time. So he's pretty young. That's why we get a lot of Bill Mitchell now. So I think it's interesting because you're like part of history and you didn't even know until it was over.

That's the way it usually goes, though, isn't it? I mean, there are some things that you're probably there for. Like, you were there when JFK got shot, and you're like, this is history. Like, even the guy that accidentally assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand, do you think he was like, this is going to start World War I? Or do you think he was like, this is just going to piss some people off? Who knows, man? Who knows? It's too deep. Illuminati.

John Titor. Just start saying terms and people. Okay, so I just thought that was very interesting that no one on there had any idea. The crew just told them to move to the front for comfort and continue to provide service to the other 36 passengers. It was when they landed they discovered they were on a plane that had been skyjacked. So for two hours, the plane circled the Puget Sound while the police and FBI collected money and parachutes. After Florence Schaffner left his side, Mystery Dan would tell Tina Mucklau, as we mentioned before, that she was now the lucky one to get to sit with him for the remainder of the flight. She would later say that it seemed as if Dan were very familiar with the local terrain as he was identifying spots from the air. Question number five.

To what city does DB point in order to show his expertise of the train? So they're in the air and he's like, oh, that's this city. Is it A, Tacoma, B, Portland, C, Beaverton, or D, Kennewick? Tacoma, Portland, Beaverton, or Kennewick? How long have they been? Like this is right after they took off again? No, this is before they've landed. So DB's in the air sitting with Tina McLeod and he's pointing out things as they're flying. Tacoma, Portland, Beaverton, Kennewick. Beaverton. Tacoma.

Give Clayton another 250 points. Beaverton is a Portland suburb. Okay, I'm not geographically perfect like you. Because, correctly pointing out the city of Tacoma and explaining its proximity to McCord Air Force Base, McLeod is yet another witness to say that Dan was not mean or unkind, but, quote, rather nice and not cruel or nasty. During some conversations they had while circling Seattle, Dan tells Tina that he is...

doing this because he has a grudge. He doesn't say against who or what, just that he's doing this because he has a grudge. He seemed that they attempted to exchange pleasantries until Dan became upset over a question that Tina had asked. They then shared a cigarette and didn't speak for a while. She said, what's your fucking problem, man? Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know what the question is. As far as Tina just said, I had a question that upset him. Maybe she doesn't remember either because it scared the fuck out of her. Doing this on account of your little wiener? So they shared a cigarette together and they didn't speak for a while, so they just chilled out like they just finished having sex. There's another moment where two eyewitness stories...

Differ slightly, but this is a 51-year-old case, and eyewitness testimony is very unreliable. It's unreliable. It happened five minutes ago. I was going to say, when it's 51 seconds ago, people don't know what the fuck happened. There was a man in a cowboy hat that was either upset with the flight attendant for not being forthcoming about the mechanical issue, or he was looking for something to read due to boredom. Those are the two, like, splits. So, like, he came to the back of the plane from the front. So, the guy with the cowboy hat comes in the back of the plane. He's in, like, DB zone now, you know? So, in one telling of the story, the man was told to go sit down.

by Mystery Dan before finally sitting after another passenger convinced him because the cowboy hat guy stood up to DB like, fuck, you don't even tell me this. Who the fuck are you? And another passenger's like, oh, chill the fuck out. Come on, let's go sit back down. The other story just says the cowboy... I mean, my flight crew's just shitting their pants. They're like, please just do what he says. Do what he says because there's a mechanical issue. The other reason the plane had to... The other story says that the cowboy man received his magazine and went back to sit after this alleged interaction. Mystery Dan tells Tina McCloud that if that there is an air marshal, she had better just cut it out. So he's like... The second story, he says the man in the cowboy hat comes down and Dan's like...

What the fuck? And the guy's like, you know, let me get a magazine to read, ma'am. She's like, here's your magazine, sir. And he goes back to the front and Dan's like, yo, who the fuck is that? Is that a fucking air marshal? I see that cowboy hat he's fucking wearing. What the fuck's the problem with that? And so I think this is the first point where he's getting paranoid and all it takes is a cowboy hat. So if you're on a plane. Don't wear a cowboy hat. No, if there's problems, then wear a cowboy hat. I think you might put a little fear of God in someone. I don't look good in cowboy hats. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Or just carry a gun then, Greg. I do. What's that? I said just carry a gun then. Yeah, on the plane. It's okay. I'm an air marshal. I'm an air marshal. Bang, bang. So one reason the plane had to circle

They would eventually get Mystery Dan $200 in $20 bills. $200,000? Yeah, sorry, $200K in $20 bills. Just to give you a little reference, there's a calculator online to see how much money it would weigh, broken down into different denominations, and $200,000 in $20 bills weighs just north of 22 pounds. That's not bad. 10 kilos for our lovers of non-freedom units.

22 pounds of money. I mean, think about picking up a 25 pound plate though. That's just money. I'm not saying it's crazy. That'd be awesome. I would love to pick up 22 pounds of money. I literally had no idea that existed. I was like, money, weight, calculator. I was like, holy shit, I can put them in by bill? When I worked at the bank, I had somebody from one of the big local businesses come in and hand me a check to deposit into their account for payroll, to cover payroll. And it was like 1.4 million dollars. And it was just a little tiny personal check.

That'll be it in the next hour, right? And they handed it to me, and I was like, I feel like it should weigh more. Like, this is just a piece of paper. It means nothing. It should be one of those big super... Yeah, it should have been like a big publisher's clearinghouse check or, you know, anything. Yeah, like Happy Go More. I'll take one of the big ones. Yeah, that's fine.

So this is I mean if you think about it to like 22-pound backpack, that's pretty heavy back Think about it in terms of backpack weight if you're not like going on like a four-day trip But also like I would I would wear 22 pounds of money on my back I'm not saying that you wouldn't I'm just saying that there's that's like all your books in high school Yeah, like stacks just all of them. Yes, it is a big backpack That's why the kid had the rolling back back. We made fun of them, but god damn it They had the right idea. They're the ones that don't have backs Yeah, they don't sit up straight shit right meanwhile I'm hunched over here Yeah, until we all became cool guys and just started carrying a binder and saying fuck books You know what I'm saying teach not bringing it you guys showed up I didn't want to go. There's also a mix up in some of the details as the two main parachutes offered initially were of a military style and would deploy as soon as Dan jumped from the plane. So, you know, we're thinking like, I can't think of the name. They have a pilot chute. Yeah, so like when they jump, it rips the cord in their foot. Well, yeah, they have a, they're like the base jumping style parachutes where they have that little pilot chute. So you jump and that pilot chute catches wind and inflates and that pulls the rest of the parachute. Which is like right when you go out. And I think Dan wanted some controlled free fall. So he didn't want it to halo. Yeah, he wants these high altitude, low opening. Yep.

So instead of that, he demanded to get four civilian parachutes. He says, don't bring me anything military. Two front, two back. These were the plane from a local stunt pilot and a skydiving school. He said, I've seen military quality stuff. Upon confirmation that everything had arrived at the airport, Captain Scott informed Mystery Dan that they were ready to make a landing. About 20 minutes later, the plane would land at SeaTac at the farthest runway possible, approximately a full mile from the terminal. Mystery Dan demands that only one person approach the plane upon landing.

Once landed, the ground crew attaches the stairs, and Tina Mucklau meets the representative and collects four parachutes and $200,000 in cash. And one for Tina. He was very specific and strict about how the transaction would go down, mainly that everything would take place through the front door only. Tina walks back in with the cash. So she made, I think, three trips. One for the cash.

One for two parachutes, one for two parachutes. Tina walks back in with the cash end and the chutes walks past the waiting passengers. It is at this time that some of them realize that something is off. Seeing that their end had been upheld, Mystery Dan is going to allow every single passenger to get off the plane but ask that each crew member remains. As the passengers begin to get off, Dan counts the money and offers some as a tip to the flight attendants and all of them refuse, stating that they weren't allowed to accept tips.

Like, man, is that really the time to, I will be, yes, sir, I will take a full fucking ban. That's why I said and when Virginia, because she probably brought that back and she's like, yo, look, there's only $199,900 in there. What the hell is this? And he's like, no, here, take some money for a tip. No, I'm good. I'm good. We can't accept tips. And she's got.

$400 sock away. Exactly. Under her little paper hat. She just made a new hat out of the dollar. How did this happen? It's origami. During this time, there was some error with the fuel trucks, and they had to call in a backup truck twice. During this delay, Dan became incredibly impatient and began trying to rush the process, saying that it shouldn't be taking this long. So like I said, he's being very cool, very calm. He's probably thinking something shady is going to start. Exactly. Now he's like, what the fuck is happening? Why is the third truck coming in? Why did the first one or the second one put fuel in the goddamn plane? He's been sitting still for entirely too long. Yes, exactly that. So he thinks that something bad is about it. We're sitting ducks here, man. We've got to go.

So it is at this point that one of the flight attendants that we haven't mentioned yet named Alice Hancock asked if she could get off the plane as well. Cooper said something along the lines of whatever you girls want. At that time, Hancock and Florence Schaffner would get off the plane without any... He's good. He's going to let them go. So now there's one flight attendant and then all three for the flight crew. So the only one that's still remaining is Tina Mucklau, the one who's having to sit with him, and I don't think she was really welcome to leave. Tina Mucklau made multiple trips for parachutes, and on her last one, she gave written instructions on how to use them and was told by Dan himself that he would not need them.

So he got like a satchel, like a... A bank bag? Yeah, like a cloth bank bag. And he was like, fuck, I need to drive a goddamn plane with this. Why ask for a knapsack? Yes. So he then improvised and cut up one of the parachutes and wrapped the money inside that in order to protect the cash. This is when Mystery Dan is really going to show some knowledge of air travel. He then tells the flight crew that he should head towards Mexico City at the lowest possible airspeed without stalling. Question number six. What is the minimum airspeed this aircraft can reach without stalling, according to Mystery Dan? Is it A, 205 miles an hour?

B, 145. C, 115. Or D, 85 miles an hour. Don't they measure it in knots, though? They do. But I mean, who the fuck would know knots? So I will give you the measurement in knots once it's done. I was going to ask what the measurement is in knots. I thought that was just a boat thing. It is anything that's not touching the ground. What was A? 205, 145, 115, or 85. This is a 727 in 1971. How slow can it go without stalling out?

All right, Sean, what'd you say? B. B, 145. That's what I said, too. Also, 145. Dan instructs the crew to fly at 100 knots, which is about 115 miles an hour, or 185 kilometers per hour. No points for anybody. That's pretty fucking slow, I feel like, for an airplane. That's what I was thinking. I was thinking, like, cop. So, Dan instructs the crew to fly at 100 knots. Again, we said it's about 115 miles an hour, 185 K.

He also told the crew to remain at below 10,000 feet at all times, which is also incredibly low for a commercial airliner. Because that keeps the cabin from pressurizing. That's exactly it. Lastly, they were to keep the landing gear deployed and take off with the rear air stairs deployed, and the wing flaps were to be lowered to 15 degrees along with the cabin remaining unpressurized. You know, at 10,000 feet, an unpressurized cabin is not unbearable, but...

We'll get into this a little more, but this is a dude who clearly knows a little bit about an airplane. Yes, exactly. I'm going to need you to tip the wing flaps. I mean, again, we talk about Greg even in the late 90s, early 90s, talking about how do you research it? You had to go to the library. You had to find a book about it. We're just barely old enough to have experienced not being able to be like D.D. Cooper. Airplane slowest speed you can go.

Yeah, exactly. And so we didn't witness the birth of the internet or research, but we witnessed the ability to do it at home easily. The growth of it. Yes, exactly. And I'm not saying that you couldn't go. And there are many people who have learned lots of things by just going and spending two years in the library and studying. And maybe Dan Cooper did that. But it certainly seemed to the captains and to the people who worked in a flight crew that this was a dude who knew a lot about flying in airplanes. So one of the theories that I have is that this was an experiment, like a government experiment. Like this was...

It wasn't an act of terror or anything like that, but more like in the 50s. Always blaming the government. I mean, in the 50s and 60s, though, they used to drive around and had a false exhaust system on a T-bird that would spew out bacteria, and then they'd go back a few days later and check to see where it reached. Is that real? Yeah. They did that in San Francisco and in New York and stuff. They would go into New York, they would take light bulbs full of mold spores and throw them in front of subways so that it would burst, and then they would check the subway train a day or so later, and they could find the mold spores, search so many cars into the subway thing so they knew how far it went. And they did all this without telling people.

And beyond that, there was a thing in the 60s called Operation Northwoods where they tried to hijack a civilian airliner and crash it into Florida and blame it on the Cubans so that we would go to war with them. And Kennedy told them no. Ah, yes. Cuban B. Ah, yes. So stuff like that having already happened by this time makes me feel like this was just a test to see like, hey, what can we do? How far can we go? We want $200,000. That's not a lot of money. Insurance will cover that. Obviously, they can't be told that that's who it was. They let everyone off. Nondescript guy in a suit. Let everybody go.

got the money, disappeared forever. It feels like it was a test to see if that was a viable way to take over an airplane and then escape, which is why they were like, okay, it has to be this, this, and that, because if they were gonna do it, they're gonna have their own pilots in there who can do this, this, and that. I appreciate you sharing your theories before we get into some of these, because you share a lot of opinions, besides, honestly, the government conspiracy thing. Right, but you share a lot of... That's always my go-to, but it feels like it's a training exercise that they did using live ammunition, essentially.

Yeah, I can see that. You never know. You just never know. So just to run it back again, they were told to keep the landing gear deployed after takeoff. So keep it down. It slows the airplane down. If you play GTA, you know this. Your plane goes faster with the... All the drag. Yeah, exactly. The rear stairs deployed. I think they're called...

ATAC stairs? I put it in here somewhere. But we're talking, you know, think about the back stairs going down. Air flaps at 15 degrees, under 10,000 feet, unpressurized, and 115 knots, or 100 knots. Air traffic control agreed to every turn except for the stairs being down. Dan would settle, saying that he would open them while in flight, but told Tina McLeod that she now has to stay behind and assist him with deploying the stairs. So that's why he didn't let Tina McLeod go, because air traffic control was like, we cannot take the fucking plane off with those down. You guys will all crash and die, because you'll be doing 110 miles an hour at takeoff. You can't do it. Sorry. That's another thing that makes me feel like it was a government thing, because...

They're real good at the details, but they miss a lot of the big picture stuff. Like, hey, you can't take off with a plane with the stairs hanging out the ass in because you won't get the proper, it'll crash and kill everybody. They need somebody who works for a plane company to be like, hey, you can't do that. They just don't know that stuff. I don't know. Change my mind. I mean, let's see. Let's see if any of this does. So, first officer, William, okay, I'm just going to say Ratishak. Greg, if you want to pull up the outline, you can look. But it's RATCZ.

ACK. Ratishak? Ratishak? Krzyzewski. Yeah, I know. Okay, I'm just going to go Ratishak. So, First Officer William Ratishak let Dan know that his pattern of flight would not allow them to get all the way to Mexico City, so they agree on Reno as a refueling stop. And it is now 7.40 p.m. So, everything we've talked about, everything that's happened, top to bottom, to this very point they're about to take off to a new destination, five hours. That's it. That's not bad. Shit, that's a part-time day at work. That's what I mean. It feels like we could have been talking about three days worth of events that have taken place. And this is from 2.50 p.m. to 7.40 p.m.

So from ordering his first drink to now being in full control of the situation, five hours. The plane takes off from SeaTac with the four remaining crew, Captain Scott, First Officer Radishak, Flight Engineer Harold Anderson, and Flight Attendant Tina McLeod. So now we know everybody. That's everybody who's there. Unbeknownst to Dan, the low and slow plane was being followed by three separate military aircraft, two F-16 and one Lockheed T-33, told specifically to fly in a way that would not get them seen by anyone on board Flight 305. So that's a... I never knew that. That is a full fact that there were three military aircraft miles behind.

But two of the, so the, from what I understand, the Lockheed never got them on radar, never got visual. They were in the area, but they never knew right where the plane was. But the two F-16s had them on radar the entire time. They were, whatever, 12 miles behind or whatever the fuck it is. They were far enough behind where even in the open sky at 10,000 feet, you couldn't see them. But the F-16s had... Well, I'm saying they were probably much higher than... That's true, too. Yeah, I didn't think of that altitude. They were probably way up higher. I honestly didn't think of that. Yeah, so yes, exactly. These F-16s have got them. I guess the Lockheed also was coming from a much further distance and a different angle. Well, and that's the F-16s thing. That's standard procedure for any time a plane's hijacked. They scramble fighter jets in the area to...

to follow it and pace it without being seen, without alerting or anything? Well, that's like that cool map you see. I mean, it's cool about 9-11, but it shows commercial aircraft, military aircraft, green and red. There's like two military aircraft in the sky. 9-11 happens. Every commercial one drops, and it's just all, boom, red. Operation Vigilant Guardian. Is that what that is? So yeah, Reno is now the location. He's got the four. Again, they are Captain Scott, First Officer Radishak, Flight Engineer Harold Anderson, and his assistant, now Tina McLeod. Military planes are following him. After they get in the air and to moving at the speed and altitude requested, Cooper asks McLeod to lower the AFT stairs.

Why was Mucklau apprehensive to open the stairs? I think it's pronounced aft. Is it just aft stairs? Yeah, that's the back of the plane. Okay, okay, so the aft stairs. Yeah, before and the aft. Okay, thank you, Greg. Look at that. I learn something new every day. Not generally from Greg, I'm going to be honest. Look at that. The stuff you learned from me is questionable, but that I think is true.

Okay, wait a second. Okay, so the aft stairs. Question number seven, why was Michael apprehensive? Was she afraid she was going to suck her out? She was afraid DB would explode the bomb anyway. She had Stockholm Syndrome and was scared for him. Or D, she was afraid opening them during flight would cause the plane to crash. Afraid of being sucked out? Afraid he was going to blow up the bomb anyway? Stockholm Syndrome. Or afraid opening the stairs was going to cause the plane to crash? Explosive decompression. What was B? B is afraid that he's going to jump and blow up the bomb anyway. Leave it behind. Hey, Tina, catch. Bye. Yeah. Marshawn lays out of the plane.

Tina Muckler, hold my briefcase. All right, Shai, what do you think? D. Says D. She's afraid of opening it during flight would cause the plane to crash. Clayton says. I was going to say D, too, but since she also said it. I wrote it down. That's what you got to do. All right, D. All right, D. She was afraid of opening them during flight would cause the plane to crash, which is a very fair guess, but it is incorrect. Is it sucking out? Muckler was terrified that as soon as she opened it, she was going to be sucked out and pleaded with DB to allow her to go to the cockpit and make some sort of safety rope for herself. Mystery Dan said.

Nah. Well, he was, give you a rope. I'm in control of the situation. He seems to know that that's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. He's going to fucking open these stairs for me because I can't do it and also jump safely. Is there really not a thing that happens? Well, it would at 35,000 feet. And a pressurized cabin. But he's flying at 10,000 and unpressurized. So it would be like rolling the windows down in a 100 mile an hour car. Yeah, like it's going to buff it and go, whoa, fuck. But you're not going to go, and be sucked out like you're in the vacuum. It's not going to be like a cartoon where you're hanging on and flapping out the door.

Which would be cool, too. I mean, arguably painful, but hilarious. Correct, correct. So, again, Muglough terrified. Dan says, no, you're not going to go up to the fucking cockpit. That's what you want to go. All the way up, tie a rope, bring it all the way through the plane. You got that much rope on a 737? I mean, maybe. And some type of, like, safety kit. I have no idea. But Muglough continued to express her concern of being sucked out of the stairs after they opened and were deployed. Asked Cooper if she could make her safety line out of one of the extra parachute cords and just tie it right there. It seemed that now Mystery Dan is well over it. And he's, like, she was literally so annoying that Dan is like, hey.

just fucking go up to the cockpit and just don't come back. I'll do it myself. Yep. Send me somebody else. Send me somebody helpful. Didn't even ask for that. He's just like, all right, listen, you are fucking me up right now. This is already stressful for me. You're putting me over the top. I don't know if you knew this or not, but this is a stressful situation. I'm the one that's about to jump off here. So I'm pretty sure one of these parachutes is fake. I hope it's the one I cut up. So, um, yeah, he sends her to the cockpit.

And the last, he says, go close the curtain on the way. Don't look at me. I don't want to fucking see you. Don't look at me. Yeah. So as she headed to the cockpit, she turned around one last time to close the partition and saw him tying the homemade satchel made from parachute around his waist. So he's tying his waterproof money satchel around his waist. She closes it. So we're going to go back down to the ground right now where the news is going wild. Obviously there's a.

open skyjacking. They're in the air right now. They're interviewing the passengers who are getting off the airplane who didn't realize they'd been hijacked. And while this is happening, many are tracing back the origin of the skyjacker based on ticket sales and flight manifests. It doesn't take long before the passengers and skyjackers identify the man as Dan Cooper, which is the name that he was given at the ticket counter in Portland. At some point during the discovery, a reporter mishears something that one of the FBI agents are saying, which is clearing a man named Dan Cooper, who goes by DB, which he now reports the skyjacker's name as DB Cooper. So this is again taken...

He prints it, and then another paper, like very AP style, takes the whole thing, reprints it. From there, it gets reprinted. From there, it gets reprinted. All of a sudden, this guy's D.B. Cooper. Because the first guy they clear is a man named Dan Cooper, who goes by D.B. and was completely cleared of the crime. He was 20 minutes in. Misunderstood. Yeah, exactly. You got a reporter going, huh? Huh? Huh? Oh, D.B. Cooper was a man. Blah, blah, blah. Put the news on menu station. Sounds cooler anyways. Yeah. It definitely does add a...

So suddenly from then on out, he is known, as we know him today, as D.B. Cooper. Around 8 p.m. from within the cockpit, the flight crew could see that the aft stairs had been activated. So, you know, they've got something. A little light goes off. Yeah, exactly. Do-do, do-do, do-do. Captain Scott gets on the intercom and offers assistance to D.B. one last time. And he was like, he says later, like, I was being sincere. I would have gone and I would have opened the stairs for him. Like, at this point, we just needed everybody to be safe. Yeah, we just wanted to be done with it. Yeah, exactly. So Captain Scott offers assistance to D.B. one more time. The last word heard by anybody from D.B. Cooper would simply be the response, no.

Just after the reply, the crew would report that their ears popped and due to the sudden drop in cabin pressure. So even if you unpressurize, there's still pressure. And the alarm they're getting is him unlocking the stairs. There's a button to unlock and there's a button to open. So they got the first one. Hey, you need any help? Nope.

And everybody in the cabin goes, oh, fuck. And their ears pop from the deep pressure. I was going to say, going up like 1,000 feet from sea level makes your ears pop. Or think about swimming down to 8 feet. It's the same idea. Yeah, atmospheric pressure. But getting up to 10,000 feet. I couldn't imagine driving to Colorado without your ears popping. And then driving twice up to Colorado, to Denver, without your ears popping. And then all of a sudden, it popping at once. It would probably feel like your head exploding. Oh, God, ow. So the tail end of the aircraft pitched up and had to be corrected immediately by the pilots. The reason that they had to correct it, because due to the speed and altitude.

Autopilot won't fly at 10,000 feet at 100 knots. It knows it's not supposed to. Exactly. So this whole time, Captain Scott's in there fucking flying a 727 at 10,000 feet at 100 knots. And when the upstairs open, it goes boom.

and puts it into a partial nosedive. Well, and it does that because when the stairs drop like that, you have all the air pressure moving underneath the plane, and it catches the stairs, and so it pitches it up like that to smooth it out. I was watching... It's like a reverse spoiler. Instead of putting down force and putting the wheels on the ground, it... Yeah, I was watching Archer, and they stole a plane and were flying it into an airstrip, and were trying to lighten it up because there was only enough fuel in the plane with the pilot and the shipment to get to the airstrip. Well, they've got two extra people on board, so that burned more fuel, which means they weren't going to land in time, so Archer opened the door to start throwing stuff out while opening the door, blew the trim all the hell, so it started...

wobbly and stuff like that. Instead of pulling the door shut, they shot the door off. So they now screwed up the air pressure. Some of the stuff I learned from cartoons. Yeah, there you go. Why do you play pitch and stuff like that? Most of the stuff I learned. Yeah, most everything I know I got from the cartoons. Like not to eat Wyeth. It's not the game.

So, co-pilot Radishak said that when this happened, they would have been over the suburbs of Portland. They believed that Cooper had jumped, and they used the intercom system to try and communicate with him, as they did prior when they asked for help, but no answer was ever given from Cooper. They continued to call to DB for several minutes as they approached Reno, letting him know that they would have to land in order to refuel. When they landed, with the upstairs down, the plane was surrounded by police, state troopers, and FBI agents. Fearing the worst, the plane was not immediately approached. Mucklau had asked DB to please take the bomb with him prior to separating from him, but he assured her that he would take it or defuse it prior to his jump. She believed that even though authorities...

we're not approaching the plane. Sorry. She believed that he would do as he said, but even the, even the authorities were not approaching the plane yet. Captain Scott took it upon himself to spend approximately 30 minutes clearing the entire cabin. So this, that kind of reminds me of that, like a, like a school shooting where like the cops wouldn't go in. The mom's like, I'm going to get my kids. Like there's all these people with guns outside. And Captain Scott's like, Oh, I'm not fucking waiting anymore. All right. I'm going to clear this motherfucker out. I'm done with this shit. And it's just like,

Captain Scott seems like kind of a fucking badass. Yeah, this is my plane, you know? Yeah, yeah, like, exactly. Look at me. I have always been the captain. So, yeah, Captain Scott clears it out.

The bomb seems to be gone. DB is definitely gone. The upstairs were down when they landed. During the search of the plane, the FBI found 66 unidentified fingerprints, any of which could have belonged to Cooper. They also found a black skinny clip-on tie with a mother-of-pearl tie clip attached to it. So clip-on. Also, hey, don't fucking grab me by the tie. Also may have been a smart move. I was talking to my mom about that recently because we were talking about my dad and how he never wore ties. And I said, except when he wore his police uniform. And she was like...

Yeah, he did wear a tie with that, huh? Because like the old school uniforms they had a tie. I said, yeah, but it was a clip-on. And she's like, was it? And I said, yeah, that way if you ever got in a fight, nobody could grab it. It would just come off in their hands. And she's like, huh. And I'm like, yeah. That's smart. Yeah, exactly. That's genius. I think if you're a hijacker who fears a possible physical altercation, you might also wear it. He's like, you don't even know, man. I had breakaway lapels on my suit. The whole thing split like stripper pants. Or basketball player. Nope, nope, nope.

The FBI then began to interview anyone and everyone who may have interacted with D.B. Cooper that day, and they developed a composite image, one that anybody with any familiarity of the case would be immediately recognized. Greg, if you throw it up on the screen there real quick. That's the one we all know. That's the composite image of D.B. Cooper that everybody's seen. You might have seen it with sunglasses. They have the classic image with sunglasses. That's the one I remember with sunglasses. That is that image without sunglasses. He looks like...

We'll get into who he looks like, buddy. Oh, really? Kind of, yeah. It's nobody you know, but I've got a list of suspects. I can't remember the actor's name, but it was in Looney Tunes, and they would make fun of him all the time. He was in, like, he's the one who would talk like this. Remember, and he had, like, the big bug eyes, and I can't remember his name. The one from, like, Bride of Frankenstein? No, no, no, no, not him.

Yeah, you look it up. I'll keep going here. So they're interviewing everybody. Due to so many variables, it was impossible to tell where DB could have landed or many different ways that they tried to test this. At one point, the Air Force offered the use of an SR-71 Blackbird to J. Edgar Hoover for the surveillance of the flight path. I thought Greg would love that. I'm sorry, one more time. The Air Force offered the use of an SR-71 Blackbird to J. Edgar Hoover for surveillance of the flight path. So they were like, yo, J. Edgar, we'll give you the dopest airplane that's ever existed. Yeah, we've got a top-secret airplane that we're using to spy on the Russians. Take it and try to find DB, yeah. So the idea for the Blackbird would have been to go over and photograph incredibly high-definition pictures for the time over the whole path to see if they could tell anything.

that was anomalous to show where the D.B. Cooper man landed. The Blackbird took five flights with this purpose and on each of the occasions returned with not a single usable photograph. So I just love that. They're like, hey, here, take an SR-71 Blackbird, please. Yeah, this is a top secret plane that there exists two of and you use one to find D.B. Cooper. Oh, take it up five times. Take it up five times. They're like, oh, we got nothing with it. J. Edgar Hoover was like, I'm sorry, I'm stuck in my pantyhose right now. I can't get this dress off to get to the phone. Oh, J. Edna. So question number eight. What was a method that they used to try to narrow down D.B.'s location? Did they A, throw a dummy with a parachute out of the plane?

Push a sled off the plane. C. Use a rudimentary computer simulation or use famous psychic Uri Geller. Dummy with a parachute, sled off a plane, rudimentary computer simulation or famous psychic Uri Geller. I feel like in 1971, all those were an option. Yeah, definitely. Does it have to be just one? One of these is a very specific. They did this test many times. And I'm going to say it is A. A. Throwing a dummy with a parachute. Yeah, same thing. A. Another test used many times was to throw a 200 pound sled off the back of the plane in a similar fashion.

Cooper would have jumped. So the problem that they found before they even tested with dummies is that, like, they don't have dummies that weigh. They didn't have a dummy that weighed. Right. So they used just, like, a... Make a dummy. Think of, like, a football sled with a couple plates on the back, weighed about 200 pounds. And they wanted to know where he would... They essentially wanted to know his trajectory without a shoot. So the 200-pound sled didn't have a shoot. So they were, like, clearing out... We gave him a fake one. Let's see where he landed. Yeah, but they don't know exactly where he jumped either. Well, that's... I mean, the pilots... One pilot, Radishak, said he believed they were over the suburbs of Portland. So they're using... I think now, if we had... You know, if the technology was of 2022, they'd have been like, oh, it was right.

here, you know? They would have shot that shit out of the air with a satellite. But then it was like, oh, the pilot... Well, in a post-9-11 world, he would have been shot. That plane would have been shot down before it even took off a second time. Well, and the thing is, from the time it opened to the time he jumped, it could have been 10 minutes. They could have been on the intercom being like, DB, and he's just like, yeah, exactly. He might not have jumped off until right before they landed. I was going to say, he didn't jump off. He just waited until they landed and ran down the stairs. I think he's on there. He changed clothes real fast, put on a jumpsuit that he had in his briefcase, came running up. He's like, you guys cool? You need help refilling?

So the sled test, in the sled test, they were able to replicate not only where they believed DB would fall, but the pitching of the tail and the popping of the ears. So it was at that time they believed they had found the area DB Cooper potentially landed. So, I mean, it seems to add up, right? Like, yo, because 200 pounds coming off the back of a plane too, even though it doesn't seem like it, like Greg was talking about, the sensitivity of like just airflow hitting a thing that's pitching down, 200 pounds being on stairs and then being off would also help. throw off an airplane. It's like they always talked about we watch a lot of NASCAR when we grew up. They talked about, you know, like you see a NASCAR, they don't even really touch. They just like disrupt airflow next to each other. And those are touching the ground. When they fill airplanes, they have to balance the load. Otherwise, because if you have everybody sitting on the left side of the plane, it'll fly. Yeah.

So they believe they found it. This location was Ariel, Washington. They now have where they believe D.B. Cooper landed. And in Ariel, Washington, they have D.B. Cooper Day each year. This year, the celebration is taking place November 24th. So if you're listening to this episode, I think you should have gone yesterday. Go back in time and go. We'll tell everybody on social media how to find it. But yeah, if you live near Ariel, Washington, go check out D.B. Cooper Day. It's a local brewery puts it on. And the brewery, all their beers all year round are all D.B. Cooper themed. So it's like, you know, parachute pale ale. Let me get a pint of a black suit with thin clip on tie. They're all themed D.B. Cooper. And then there's an escape room in Ariel, Washington.

like a DB Cooper, like escape the plane, like themed escape room. That's cool. Yeah. So that sounds like fun. I mean, they really embraced.

I mean, for being like, hey, we think D.B. Cooper landed here. They're like, well, this is D.B. Cooper. He's a folk hero. Take it on. So this year, again, celebration of November 24th. I'll definitely try to put something on social media to tell people that's coming up before we get the episode out. So this is either the day before or the day after. They have D.B. Cooper themed bar, D.B. Cooper escape room. It seems very fun. Several more air searches are going to take place in this area, as well as a massive ground search. Once the spring thaw came, there was even a bigger ground search that would take place that included Army, Air Force personnel, National Guardsmen, and civilian volunteers. So this is huge. I mean, we're...

It's one thing to be like, oh, yeah, so we had some army guys come out, some soldiers came and did this. Oh, we also had the Air Force. We also had the National Guard. We also had this huge... And civilian volunteers was the biggest of the four groups, from what I understand, because if you look around... Oh, yeah, I want to be a part of that. You want to be a part of that. You want to be the guy that found D.B. Cooper in his $75,000. I found his way. I was just going to say. It's so funny. I found his $50,000. It's right here. Where'd you find it? Well, the $20,000 is over there. Are you sure it's all tucked in and clumped? No, this was my parachute I brought from home. I just wanted to make sure that when I found one, it would look the same. So, yeah, this turned up nothing.

As the search area was so vast, there were so many variables, they would eventually give up that route. Prior to the money being handed over to DB, it was scanned so that all of the serial numbers could be accounted for and they would do a rudimentary job of tracking the bills if need be. So this is common practice since bank robberies were a thing. If they're going to give you some money and they've got a second, they're just going to scan every bill. It might even just be a photograph.

Now we have every serial number of all of the bills we gave you. So a month after the skyjacking, the FBI started to get a list of all of those serial numbers. Somewhere they released this. Hey, here's the serial numbers. If you've got any of these bills, let us know. Somewhere they figured that someone might have exchanged a large amount of cash. They start looking in like racetracks and pawn shops. Cash-heavy businesses. Yes, exactly. At some point, they offer a reward for anybody who brings even one bill with a serial number on it. At some point, the money's numbers were made.

public to help the process and a few men counterfeited 20s and used them to con a news reporter into paying them $30,000 for an interview with a man who they told him was D.B. Cooper. So they're like, yo, look, we have some of the money. We know D.B. Cooper. You pay us $30,000. We bring you to D.B. Cooper. Hell yeah, dude. And I said, they sound less like con men and more like business men. Congrats on the cash. Yeah, good for them. I love this story, man. There is really not a single bad guy in this whole story. And by the time we're done, the only people that die are of pretty much natural causes. This is a feel-good story. It's a fucking farce. The whole thing is a farce.

It's a ruse. In 1973, two newspapers re-ran the serial numbers and offered a reward of $1,000 to $5,000 respectively, bringing just one authentic bill. The reward was available for nine months and had hundreds of submissions, but no authentic bill with a serial number range was found. So that's kind of telling. Right? That's like our first big sign. Like, yeah. Did any of this money make it out anywhere? We're offering anybody who has one of these bills five grand. Bring us to this $120 bill. We give you five grand. He just died in Oregon somewhere, got eaten by a wolf, and there's a wolf out there sitting. Well, I mean, we haven't made any without a paddle references, but if, right, didn't they find him at, like, the bottom of a well? Like, he fell into a, right? Like, he's just, he's tangled up in a tree. Well, see, that's the thing is that is one of the most well-searched parts of the entire thing is, like, if he were tangled in a tree, I truly believe.

They would have found him. Parachute's super bright, too. Well, right, even then. There are people who spend... Well, I guess he didn't take the military once. Well, there are people that spend their weekends and own money flying helicopters in quadrants and clearing them out. This kind of shit. People that hike the areas. I'm not saying they've seen every tree. Right, and I don't know how heavily forested it is, but I know in the jungle, in Vietnam, when they had guys parachuting in, they would break through the top canopy of trees and get caught up before breaking through the bottom canopy of trees. So you can't see them from the ground. You can't see them from the sky. Because they're stuck in the middle. Right, they're caught in the middle of the canopy. So essentially between that time...

We just need to get out there and deforest Oregon. Yeah, let's do it. So this is 1973 when that was being offered. So this is two years. So we're two years in and people are still like, ah, give us the money. DB fever. Yeah, so we're pretty much, it's dying out. There's nothing really going to come. Any new of the case. People are still interested, but we got nothing. But on February 10th, 1980, an eight-year-old boy named Brian Ingram found $5,800 in cash that had clearly been out and exposed to the elements. Brian was raking the beach on the Columbia River and found in an area approximately 20 miles downstream from Ariel, Washington and about nine miles from Vancouver.

The money was still bundled and when investigated by the FBI was confirmed to be some of the bills given to Cooper and still in their original order. Wow. So this kid is like raking sand on the beach for a campfire. I think it's like this is where we're going to camp. He's just raking up. Rakes up like weathered. I saw pictures of the money. It's like oval shaped now because it's just gotten torn up. Still bundled. He just sat outside under the sand for nine years. They think it was like a water wash. It eroded like because they're thinking they're in stacks. So it eroded how rocks would. Like it got the edges first. Yeah. So they're like.

Yeah, they're like oval-shaped bills at this point. Not so much super smooth, but just the shape that they took is very like, this is a rock in the water kind of thing. But yes, $5,800 in cash, all serial numbers matched. And in fact, it was still in the same order. And it was in the same order, still banded. That's fucking cool. See, go look around there. Later, they're also going to find that their landing zone may have been wildly inaccurate because, again, this is 20 miles downstream. Could it afloat? Yeah, for sure. But now they're starting to really re-guess. Like, shit, it might have been a lot closer to Vancouver than to Ariel because they're only like nine miles outside Vancouver. That's twice the distance upstream to Ariel.

Captain Scott who was flying a plane manually again to DB's demands says that he thinks that they were much farther east than they initially thought so he's saying Radishak might not have been correct I think we're much farther away from the Portland area which is wild because you have two guys sitting three feet apart with better but but again being not an autopilot having like direct but I mean these guys are these guys are professional pilots and they're sitting like I said three feet apart and they're like but wildly off in their distances I think I just think that's interesting that that they can have such difference of opinion of where they were. I think don't forget that they're in an incredibly high stress situation. While they're trained to be pilots, they're not trained. I'm not mad at them for having this difference of opinion. I just think it's strange that one of them can look out and be like, yo, I see a lot more ocean than you see. And the other guy's like, really? Because all I see is mountains and forests, bud. And all they're doing is looking out opposite sides of the plane and getting completely false impressions of where they are. I just think that's interesting. So some analysis would later show that they may have been off on their adjustments as far as 80 degrees on the trajectory. Holy shit. Wow.

So we know at 90 degrees. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, so that is a whole lot of, I mean, think about when you're traveling hundreds of miles and you're off 10 degrees. How much farther off the track you would end up being X amount down the line. 80 degrees is a lot. Yeah, that's insane. That's like the plane going this way to the plane going...

Yeah. So, yeah. There are additional theories that he may have landed in Washougal River Valley, but the physical evidence could have been wiped out by the 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens. Like, hey, he landed here, but there's no way we'll ever find anything because a fucking volcano erupted. Yes. Question number nine. What ended up happening to that recovered $5,800? A, the boy was allowed to keep it.

B, it was all given to the insurer, Royal Globe Insurance. They're the ones who paid for the original, you know, hey, we got to give this guy $200,000. C, the FBI kept it as it was all evidence, or D, it was split between the three parties. The boy was allowed to keep it, given back to the insurer, the FBI kept it, or it was split between the three parties. I know what I want it to be, and then I know what I think it is. I'm thinking the same exact thing. I want it to, like... Clay, what'd you say? B.

B, that it was given to the insurer, Royal Globe Insurance. That's what you think it is, right? No, I think that the FBI kept it as evidence because they're the fucking FBI and they get their grubby little paws on whatever they can. Don't change your answer. What'd you say? C, that the FBI kept it all as evidence. Yeah. Great guesses. In 1986, after protracted negotiations, the recovered bills were divided equally between Ingram and Northwest Orient's insurer, Royal Globe Insurance, and the FBI retained 14 examples as evidence. The FBI actually got the least amount of the bills. I just didn't think they were going to let that kid keep any. Yeah, no. I didn't either. They should give him the equivalent value. Yeah. So they gave him... Well, he didn't keep... They did. They didn't give him the eroded bills. The circle bills.

Yeah, from what I understand, it was like destroyed. Here's $5,800. FBI had 14 of them as evidence. I'm sure the whatever, you take destroyed money to the bank and they exchange it for you. It was kind of that situation. But that was six years after he found it. So in 1986, he found it in 1980. So six years later, he got to split the money with the insurer and 14 bills were kept to the FBI.

Let's see. There was a good story about this. I forgot to get Ingram later sold 15 of the bills. Oh no, he did get to keep the original bills. I'm sorry. He did. So he got to keep it. He got to keep the bills. That's cool. So he sold these bills at auction in 2008 for about, sold 15 of them for $37,000. Yeah, man. See, like everybody. That's $100 in $20 bills that he got. Literally everybody's making money in this story. I am just so happy. This guy, D.B. Cooper is great for the economy.

Where was D.B. Cooper in 2008? Yeah, yeah. You know what's funny is that's when Ingram sold his bills. In 2008? Yeah. D.B. Cooper's great for the economy. The Columbia River ransom money remains the only confirmed physical evidence from the hijacking found outside. Did you say physical or physical? Physical. Okay. It's the only physical evidence found from the hijacking. And I guess physical too. Yeah, it is physical as well. So outside the aircraft. Obviously, the tie, the fingerprints, all that stuff was found. And the upper decker he left in the lavatory. In your face. In 2007, the FBI announced that some partial DNA profiles had been discovered on the tie that was left behind by Cooper. They were said to be difficult to draw conclusions from because of their size and age.

Later, some metals would be identified on the ties that were very rare for the early 1970s. And one place you could get this metal, which was a titanium blend, was question number 10. What company used this pure titanium in a blend that they used almost exclusively at the time? Was it A, Lockheed Martin, B, Boeing, C, Cadillac, or D, Mack Trucks? Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Cadillac, or Mack Trucks? What's the question? A titanium blend was found on the tie. It's a very specific titanium blend. And one company uses it almost exclusively at this time. What company is that? Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Cadillac, or Mack Trucks?

All right, we got Clay. Boeing. Boeing, Shai says. Boeing. The metal blend could have possibly come from the manufacturing process that Boeing did. This is a research. But they say that this is a reach at best. But yes, that is correct. Both of you guys get 250 points. I think that's my last question. So if we give us an update on the score. Yeah, let me get this in here. But I have a little more to go through. I think it's just once Greg takes over, he's got questions. I have like actually a lot of information for you. This is kind of what I consider even more fun than what we've done so far. So cool. Update on the score. We've got Clay at 2000. Mama Shai at 750. Oh, man.

All right. Well, you beat me, I think, every time that we've been on here. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, yes. The Metal Wind, Boeing. We got... I mean, hey, look. What do we say? You know? Plenty of time.

Plenty of time. You got plenty of time. There are many reaches by many people throughout 50 years of this investigation. In the four-part doc, the Netflix I was talking about, there's a guy named Tom Colbert. Did you say Stephen Colbert? No, Tom. And the journalist he chose to head the investigation, James Jude Forbes, or Jim Forbes. The only reason any of us would know him is he was the narrator for VH1's Behind the Music. Dope dude. Anyway, he's not a dope dude, though. No. I mean, from what I saw, no. Anyway, these guys may not have necessarily reached, but they definitely stepped over some lines. This is what we'll talk about.

We're going to get into suspects a little bit here. Not a lot because there are literally like... Thousands. There were thousands to start. Yes, exactly. But I'm just going to bring you my favorite suspects. These aren't maybe the ones that are best for the crime or the ones that the FBI most believed. These are my personal favorite suspects in the investigation. We want to pretend to bring you anything new because as a new motto we've been putting out here is if you're using this show for research, don't. Stop. Yeah, this is not the place. We're here for entertainment. That's what we're here for. So I just want to tell you about some of the more interesting...

Suspects. The first man is a man named Robert Rackstraw who had done skydiving work in Vietnam as well as has been in and around planes nearly his entire life. Cool name. After his service, Rackstraw lived with his stepfather on some property and it was reported that the two did not get along. After some time with his father not showing up around town, the property was searched and a body was found with a bullet in the back of his skull. Robert was not charged with his stepfather's murder. So Robert Rackstraw is the guy that like in this... So I guess there wasn't... I forgot about this one. There was a death. I'm sorry! Yeah, but this is speculative that he's involved. Right, correct, correct, correct. It's a reach of best.

Lost my train of thought. There was a death. There was a death, yeah. But, oh, Raxra is... Tom Colbert obsessed that Robert Raxra is the guy. Like, when I said they crossed lines, this poor dude. Like, and I'm not saying that he wasn't DB, but at this point, who the fuck cares? Why are you... When did this guy die? Who's that?

Robert Rackstrah? He's alive? He's one of the main suspects. He killed his stepfather. That's who we're saying. His stepfather's body was found on the property they share with a bullet in its head, but he was never charged for the crime. He didn't do it. He wasn't charged for it. That's the way the justice system works. Yeah, exactly. So Robert is not charged with his stepfather's murder. But...

He had paratrooper and explosives experience in the military. But this poor old-timer gets absolutely harassed by Tim Colbert and Jim Forbes. At one point, there's this cringy part of the dock where Forbes is at a fence yelling to Robert Rackstraw, Are you D.B. Cooper? Why are you avoiding the question? Literally, Rackstraw owns a business at a marina, so he's in a gated area that they can't get in. Have you seen that video? Yeah, we're going to ambush interview him today. Just some gotcha journalism. It's so cringy, dude. It's so fucking bad.

But it was awful. There are many people that believe it was Rackstraw. However, he pretty vehemently denied this his entire life. And the poor dude would die in 2017, feeling like he was being constantly harassed by Tom Colbert. Like every time someone else would reach out and be like, hey, you know, this guy Tom Colbert is like, oh, my God, that guy is a fucking pain. He's a menace. Yeah, pretty much.

Another one of my favorite suspects is Barbara Dayton. Barbara Dayton was born Robert Dayton in 1926. Progressive young. And reportedly the first person to ever receive gender reassignment surgery in the state of Washington in 1969. Although Barbara had tried many times, she was never able to receive a commercial pilot's license. She said that it would have... If she had been a man, it would have... She would have gone. Yeah, yeah. She said that she...

Sorry, she said that she had gone up on the flight posing as a man and completed the hijacking as a way to get back at the aviation industry for spurning her before She would later take back the entire story when she was told that she was not beyond the statute of limitations and could still be charged for the skyjacking. Just kidding. I'll see you in five years She was famous for claiming to be DB But the FBI never commented on her official suspect status which it means essentially they never believed that she was One of the suspects for a time was serial killer John List, who killed his entire family only 15 days prior to the D.B. Cooper skyjacking. And after his arrest, he would deny any involvement with the D.B. Cooper case as there was no physical evidence tied to him. He was eliminated as a suspect and died in prison in 2008. But again, I mean, there's like people in this area who kill people and they're pulling when we say thousands of suspects.

thousands of suspects yeah um there are so many good suspects and if you like puzzles rabbit holes infighting the db cooper community is your place because infighting is their favorite thing to do because they sound as bad as the one person's the robert rackstraw guy and one person's like barbara did it and one person's like it's a cia government conspiracy and there are so many different opinions so they have um full DB Cooper events and you know venues get sold out and it's not just Ariel Washington this is yes all you DB Cooper nuts out there yeah so I think it's a government conspiracy so come at me exactly so nowhere besides Star Wars prequel versus sequels arguments will you see this much infighting period the FBI speculates that it is not likely that anyone could have survived the jump due to the equipment needed versus equipment supplied so that's their official stance as of now it's like nobody would have survived even 10,000 feet because also they were flying through freezing rain you did not jump out on a dry night it was It's the P&W. I was going to say, it is the Pacific Northwest. Those clouds are just chilling there. They live there. Yeah, exactly. So the inclement weather, including wind speed, rain, an extremely wooded and pitch black landing, the man who packed the chutes for DB, Earl Cossey, claimed that it would only take half a dozen practice jumps to make the jump in reality. So you got Earl Cossey being like, dude, you can do this. This wouldn't be that big a deal, especially if you knew the area. And we say that DB's like, oh, this is there, this is that, this is that. And if he's experienced enough to know how to unpack a parachute, cut it up, and put it in a military, or you turn it into a military-style knapsack and stuff, that tends to give me like a...

a little bit of training vibes, you know, like, um, he's been taught how to survive. He's been taught survival skills and stuff. So landing outside on a pitch black treacherous night in the woods may not be the worst thing ever, especially if he's been trained to jump. If he's been trained to like by the military to do halo jumps at night in the dark, like into uncharted territory, it doesn't seem like it's that much of a stretch. That's what oral coffee thinks. But Greg, let me, let me get some gears for you. Okay. Because.

Earl Cossey was found dead in 2013 in his Washington home, and the death was ruled a homicide by blunt force. Many people ask whether or not this death had anything to do with his involvement in the Cooper case, because the death was, again, a murder. So it's 2013, and we're talking 42 years. But he has always been one that disagreed with, oh, he died in the jump. So it's just another thing that D.B. Cooperites are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Earl Cossey died? He got murdered? You know I love conspiracies. You know I'll be like, yes, this ties together. But even for me, that doesn't quite fit, because...

What would D.B. Cooper have to gain by coming forward and murdering him? Yeah. 42 years after. D.B. Cooper got away. Yeah. He's done. He's hiding. Especially at 88 or whatever. Yeah. The statute of limitations is gone. He's done. He's got people, man. Or if he was the government. But still. I'm kidding. Yeah. What I'm saying is he got away. There's no need to come back and be like, hey, this guy keeps saying I survived. I'm going to kill him. And again, even if Earl Kosky was 21 when he packed those chutes, he's 63 now. That's an easy fight. Yeah. So regardless of all that, it's clearly quite certain that we'll never fully know what happened in this case completely. It has a level of lore that is damn near untouchable. But in July of 2016, the FBI announced that its active investigation was suspended. The state.

They stated that they needed to focus on cases of a higher priority. All local FBI field offices would continue to take on evidence for anybody that had it that seemed to connect anything, especially that of money or a backpack. As one little last aside, a connection was made by a group in 2009 that the name Dan Cooper is actually a slightly obscure but not unobtainable French-Canadian comic book about a flying ace. named Dan Cooper. The Cooper research team, led by Tom Kaye, working in cooperation with Seattle-based FBI agent Larry Carr, speculated that the hijacker may have chosen an alias based on the fictional character. Kaye and colleagues suggest that the hijacker may have been exposed to the comics while on a tour of duty in Europe, or that he may have been a French-Canadian origin. Some of the comic's storylines seemingly match aspects of that of the D.B. Cooper case, including jumping out of a plane with a parachute as well as a ransom being delivered in a knapsack.

So that's a quote from the FBI. See, that makes me want to go find those comics now. So they're only in French. They're never printed in English and they were only very popular during the late 60s and early to mid 70s. I'm sure that you can still get them. I'm sure it's not crazy. But Dan Cooper was like... But you gotta know French. I mean, think about it. How American this story must be because it took until 2009 for someone to be like, yo, there's a French comic book hero named Dan Cooper. So I just thought that was an interesting... Well, yeah, but also that's what I was saying earlier. Folk hero. He's an American folk hero where people outside the United States are probably like...

So what? Yeah, exactly. Who? He didn't hurt anyone. Yeah. So, yes, D.B. Cooper's case would remain open and preserved for historical purposes at FBI headquarters in D.C. and on the FBI website and is available to the public. So every piece of evidence, you can go to their website. You can look at it. You can see it. Essentially, they're saying, hey, we have one guy in Seattle who's on this suspended case who's willing to take research, but it's up to you guys now. We're not hunting for evidence anymore. Exactly. Here's the evidence. If you guys want to try to do it, go for it. I will say I would appreciate that level of transparency from the FBI on all cases. We'll have a...

Yeah, I'd like that, yeah. If they don't got anything, let us help. Yeah, or be like, hey, look, this is what we do have. As I head into a break here, I will tell you that this remains the only case of unsolved air piracy in commercial aviation history. Really? I mean, every hijacker who's ever hijacked a plane, we know who it is. Even if it's been, I don't know all the stories, but from all the information that I can find, this remains the only unsolved airjacking commercial. Until 9-11.

Well, they say they know who those people are. They found their passports at the base. Yeah, but nothing else. We weren't going to talk about 9-11. All right, so we're going to take a break right now. And believe it or not, guys, we've said it a million times. Well, we've said it like four times. But we're not doing Hella Greg stories on these. But I knew DB was going to come up a little short. Great story. That is all for DB. We have more questions from Greg, so there's time. I'm going to try to catch up. We'll take a break here. And when we come back, Hella Greg will be sitting in this seat. And he's going to finish the episode up. So come back or we'll kill you. Okay. Breaking back with Hella Greg story. Welcome back to the Serial Chillers podcast. We don't have to kill you.

So, you know, celebrate that. You're good to go. You are good to go. So since D.B. Cooper ran a little short, I brought some more astral projection stuff because I know people seem to be digging on that a little bit while we were doing it. Excuse me. I think D.B. Cooper was like 5'11". Perfectly average height. Thank you. Yeah, no, that's fine. I mean, by comparison, still a little short. That's okay.

But I know people did seem to dig on the astral projection stuff, so I brought some stuff about some of the people who participated in the astral projection experiments. And, you know, a few questions so we can even out the score here. And then at the end, we'll test your guys' psychic abilities. Oh, shit. Yeah, we're going to put it to the test. It'll be fun. I'm three for four, by the way, in Greg's asking. That is true. That is true. So some of the people we talk about, actually pretty much everybody we talk about, had a percentage over 80% as far as getting it right, which the odds of that are super, super low. Like pure chance is like 10%. That's why I'm retiring at 75, and I'm not ever guessing. Okay. I'm going to do it today, too.

Yeah, pure chance is 10% on these guesses and stuff. You know, having an inclination or whatever obviously raises it. People with psychic ability. Like, there were some people who guessed 100% accurate through all their tests. Or not guessed, but answered 100% accurate through all their tests. Some of the people, like this guy, did not do so well, but his name's Edgar Mitchell. But before I get into all this, there was a documentary on Amazon Prime called Third Eye Spies. And if you ever get a chance, watch it. It's really good, and it goes into in-depth on some of these people here. It's very cool, and they talk about using astral projection and remote viewing and stuff during wartimes, during the Cold War and Vietnam and stuff.

trying to use that to gain an advantage over Russia. Amazon, send us free stuff. Yeah, come on, Jeff Bezos. More like Jeff Bezos, huh? Am I right? And according to the CIA, there absolutely exists a sixth sense that people can tap into. They've done the research and been putting money into funding this research since the early to mid-70s. And what does that sense? It's an extra sense that people can tap into, like sensitive people. Not everybody can tap into it. Okay, so we all don't have it. But you can learn it.

You have the ability to have it. That's pretty much the opening line to the book Phenomena by this lady named Annie Jacobson. Phenomena. She does a great job with her book. She talks to people who have top security clearances and she goes in depth about their lives and the things that they've done. It's very cool. Unfortunately, a lot of the stuff like the PK research, which is psychokinetic research.

falls under the MKUltra umbrella, which is super unfortunate because MKUltra was just this really fucked up batch of experiments where they were trying to make like a Manchurian candidate, where they were trying to mind control people. Oh. And they did it. Like many people died. Yeah, they did it. Unabomber was one of them. Oh, really? Yeah, Ted Kaczynski. They did that to gain an advantage on the Russians because they thought the Russians were doing all this stuff too. So they were like, we think they're doing this. We got to get ahead of it. And that's what led to the psychokinetic research is that they heard that Russia was doing this and they were like, we can't fall behind. So not only do we have to catch up, we have to take the lead. And...

Some of the more notable people who were involved in the experiments are like this guy. He's an astronaut. His name is Edgar Mitchell. He was born September 17, 1930. He was also an aviator before he was an astronaut. Like a lot of these guys are test pilots and fire pilots and stuff. He completed his officer candidate school in Rhode Island in 1953 at the age of 23. And his flight training in 1954 in Kansas. In 1957, he stopped flying land patrols and he began flying from carriers. So he would take off and land on aircraft carriers and stuff. 1964 to 65, he was the chief of project management division of the Navy field office on the manned orbiting laboratory.

And in 1965 to 66, he attended U.S. Air Force Aerospace Research Pilot School. So he flew experimental aircraft. But yeah, so this guy, he's got to be smart. You know what I mean? You don't get to be a dummy and get to do all this stuff. Did he fly an SR-71 Blackbird? Didn't say, but I would also guess. That's some cool connections here. Well, I do think it's, there was some stuff that ties into what you were talking about, and I think that's pretty neat. Cool.

But he was also a mathematics and navigation instructor for the astronaut candidates at this time. So people who wanted to be astronauts from 1965 to 66, he was teaching them how to read maps in space and chart things, which is funny for reasons I'll tell you later. But he's fucking smart. He's just a smart dude, well-educated. He's got giant balls. He flies experimental aircraft and not afraid to go where people don't often go. You should have said the line. No, he went to space. Why would I say the line? That's too on the nose. Because he wanted to go.

No. You do it. No. It's your script. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you. So he also holds a PhD in aeronautics and astronautics from MIT and is the founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. All right. Save some for the rest of us. Jesus. So question number 11. What Apollo mission was Edgar Mitchell on? Was it A, Apollo 13? B, Apollo 14? C, it wasn't an Apollo mission. It was Challenger. Or D, Apollo 11, the first one that landed on the moon? Three seconds, Clay. Oh, sorry. No.

You guys got your answers? I do. Okay, what do you got? I do. B. B? B. It is B. He was on Apollo 14, so that's 250 points to the both of you. Ayo. Yeah. Is it really only three seconds? I just don't want you to have time to think. So here's what he had to say about why he experimented in space, because he did some psychokinetic research experiments while he was in space. He said no one had ever done them at those distances, and the question was whether the effect fell off with distance. Like, you know, sitting across the table from one another, you might have a really strong psychokinetic connection.

But when you're 250,000 miles away orbiting the moon, is it just as strong? Is it just as instant? Because a lot of the research they wanted to do for this wasn't for spying. I mean, some of it obviously was. A lot of it had to do with communication, just instead of radio signals, because radios can be listened to. And then they use code talkers like the Navajo Native Americans that they used during World War II to...

speak a dead language that nobody could translate. So a lot of the stuff that they were doing during the Cold War was secrecy and they wanted to be able to communicate without actually having to get on a radio and go, hey, make sure you come into the office because we got to check up on some stuff. You know, they didn't want, they don't want somebody to hear that. So they were, you know, if we can do it by brain power, that saves us a lot. So what he did while he was in space was he had Zener cards and those are those cards I was showing you earlier. And

There was somebody on Earth that was doing it, and they had set times. At this time, this time, this time, and this time. We're going to do this. And it took him about seven minutes to do the experiments. Basically, he built a system. He couldn't carry a deck of Xaner cards like this because he's in zero gravity, so they're floating around. So what he did was he made a chart.

that had all of the zinner card numbers or like all the different, because there's five different shapes. So he had them down. He numbered each shape accordingly. Each number got its own corresponding shape. And he would do that off of like a little piece of paper that he had. So he didn't have to have a deck of zinner cards. But that's how he did it. And he would do it at a set time before bed every night because they had to be in their bunk by a certain time. He would do it while he was in his bunk before anybody. So nobody knew. Nobody knew what he was doing. They had done experiments with submarines and stuff where they were trying to see if the water around the nuclear submarine

or the nuclear submarine itself, the hull of the submarine, would affect your brainwaves getting to somebody else. And unfortunately, they did this really fucked up experiment where they took a mother rabbit who had just had a bunch of babies, and they left the mother in the lab and took the babies on the submarine, and then were recording the mother rabbit's brainwaves as they killed the baby rabbits. And each time they killed the baby rabbit, a difference registered on the mother rabbit's brainwaves. No way. So it wasn't so much that it was showing distress or fear or anger or anything. It just registered that something in the brain reacted each time they killed one of the baby rabbits.

So they know that there is some sort of telepathic communication that can be reached by living things. His experiments, Edgar Mitchell's experiments in space, didn't go over so well because he said there was a time delay. He said, I'm doing it at 645. They're doing it at 648. So it's not coming in at the same time. So his experiments in space weren't great. The results weren't great. They were less than what the acceptable rate was for all the other people doing these experiments at the time. Like I said, 80% was...

Where everybody else was was the bottom end of everybody else who got to participate in these if you were below 80% You weren't asked to participate because you're probably just a lucky guesser He said, my experiment involved four transmission sessions during rest periods programmed into the flight. The well-known experiment in the laboratory was to use the cards with the five Xander symbols, but the actual cards aren't important. It was easier for me to use random number tables than carry the physical cards. Instead, all I did was generate four tables of 25 random numbers, just using the numbers one to five, and then randomly assigned a Xander symbol to each number. For each transmission, I would check a particular table of random numbers and think about the corresponding symbol for 15 seconds. Each transmission took about six minutes. I did this when I was ready to go to sleep at night. We had sleeping bag hammocks that we would put underneath the couches. Two of us would go to sleep in a hammock while the other one would watch, and I would do the experiment before going into my sleeping bag.

he kept it a secret from everybody except the people who were involved in the experiment. Nobody on the crew knew what he was doing. Nobody back at Mission Control knew what he was doing. They just pretty much kept it under wraps. Because there's still a lot of stigma around psychokinetic research, especially when it's government-funded. And at this point in time, not a lot of people know about the government-funded PK research that's happening in the world. So after word got out about his experiments, there was actually minimal public backlash. Nobody really seemed to care. Most of the people at NASA were pretty pumped about it.

They thought it was really cool. Even that rotten fucking Nazi old, who's it? Werner Von Braun. He was pumped about it because he asked to speak to Edgar Mitchell because Von Braun's the head of NASA at this point. He asked to speak to Edgar Mitchell. They sat down and he talked about it and he was like, hey, listen, this is what I did. This is why I did it. Here's the science that backs it up that made me want to do that. And Von Braun was like, cool. Yeah, right on. Which is strange to me because at the beginning of the Nazis' rise to popularity,

they took all the people who did palmistry and horoscopes and any sort of fortune telling and any sort of divination and they were sent to concentration camps. So for Von Braun to be like, hey, there's actually some science here to this. That's big. That shows that he's open to new ideas, which is good. Yeah, I still don't like him. And the fact that he still has a show on Disney Plus. Yeah, he did a thing for Disney in the 60s about space. And he walks through a museum and talks about all the different planets and stuff like that. And if you go on Disney Plus, it's still there. It's still Werner Von Braun with his thick German accent talking about space. And I'm like, have we learned nothing? What do you want us to learn, huh? So yeah, not really a whole lot more to his story other than I think it's pretty cool that NASA was cool about him doing his own experiments as long as it didn't interfere with anything. And it actually might have helped because when it did come out, a lot of people were like, yo.

Anybody can do these experiments? Like, let's test it. Let's check it out. Yeah, and, you know, any sort of publicity that PK Research got made people, they would always see a spike in it afterwards because people would be like, oh shit, I wonder if I can do that. And some people would discover that they could.

So I thought that was pretty cool. Some of the doctors, I just have this kind of thrown in here, but some of the doctors in the labs and the investors involved in this, there was Dr. Russell Targ, Hal Puthoff, Andrea Puharik. Sidney Gottlieb was the guy who helped do the LSD experiments for the CIA for MKUltra. He was involved in this. They called him Uncle Sid. Sounds creepy. Yeah, and seriously, when they were like, yeah, we're trying to see if we can do...

telekinesis and communicate telepathically. He's like, oh, you guys want some LSD to help? And they were like, yeah, sure, we'll try it. And they tried it and they were like, this did not go well. And he's like, maybe give him more LSD. And they were like, we're going to give less LSD. We're going to give none, none LSD. And he's like, all right, well, I got a barrel of it if you want.

You guys ever think about like, I don't know, like poisoning a water supply? I have dreams. I'm an ideas guy. I'm an ideas guy. Like a hat. And then there was Dr. Kit Green and then Ken Kress. So those guys were kind of like the major players in this scene at that time. And there was also a lot of like really rich investors like the DuPont family. Oh, wow. They got involved because one of the ladies, her last name was DuPont. They don't have any controversy surrounding them, right? No. None. She lived in San Francisco and they would host what they called spoon bending parties.

And they would literally have people who they thought were psychic show up and try and bend a spoon. And then one of these guys, I can't remember which one, I want to say how put off, would host spoon bending parties also. And he would invite 20 people who said that they were psychic. And he's like, okay, here's how you do it. Just hold it out in front of you. Focus, focus right here on the spoon. All your energy. And then shout, bend. And people would be sitting there holding spoons out in front of them, folks screaming, bend. Just imagine like a really nice, like long table down the middle of like a Mr. Burns style dining room.

With like 20 people sitting around screening Ben at spoons. And some of them Ben. Really? Oh, shit. More often than not, people would leave those parties believing that they had some sort of psychokinesis or telekinesis because of something that they saw there. Or if they didn't believe that they had it, they at least believed in it because they saw it. Okay. So it was pretty cool. There was a guy who got involved in stuff like that. His name was Ingo Swan, which I think is a pretty cool name. Very cool. He was born September 14th, 1933. He was a self-proclaimed, backed by science, psychic. He would do experiments, but he demanded that they be done a certain way so that they couldn't be proved later to be wrong. Oh. He would like...

He would say, I want this done. Like, don't be in the same room. Like, I'm going to take one of these dinner cards and I'm going to put it in an envelope. I'm going to put that envelope in a locked box. I'm going to put that locked box in a safe. And he's like, great. Put that safe in another room because I don't want somebody to say that I can see through the safe.

I don't want any excuses. I want this to be as airtight as possible. And so he demanded that the experiments be done like that. And he still performed well over 80%. Wow. Yeah. He was an artist and he worked for SRI, Stanford Research Institute. He was in New York and he saw that SRI was doing quantum biology research. He saw something about it and he was like, this is something I got to get involved in. So he went out and checked it out. It says he'd already done some psychical research for a college at NYC and was keen on helping Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ. These guys are working together. He's like, I want to be a part of this.

He was vetted and revetted by the CIA, NSA, and anyone else who was funding. So anybody who was investing any money into this got to pull him aside and sit down and question him with whatever line of questioning they wanted. And if they weren't satisfied, he didn't get to be a part of this. So he comes in making these claims. I can do this. I can read minds. I can do that. I can manipulate this and that. And they're like...

We need to see it. And he's like, okay, let me be a part of this. And so he got involved. Hal put off, snuck Ingo Swann into the secret lab. They had this secret lab at the Stanford Research Institute. And it had a machine in the room. They made Ingo Swann move the needle on the machine with his mind, which shouldn't have been possible. Question 12. What was the machine? Was it A, a lie detector? B, a magnumometer used to detect or measure nuclear blasts? C, a seismograph used to detect earthquakes? Or D, a thermostat?

Better not be the thermostat or my dad is going to be pissed. Trying to air condition the whole outdoors? 68. All right, you guys got them? What do you got? C. C, the seismograph. Yeah, C2. Seismograph? No. You're both wrong. It is the magnumometer to measure nuclear blasts. They brought him into this room and it was basically an empty room with a machine that had like a graph paper that printed out and a needle on it. Yeah. And it would go like this. And if it moved at all.

Something manipulate something is manipulating it something with a strong electromagnetic force like a nuclear blast manipulated that needle He said they were like, okay. Hey, we want you to manipulate the needle on this machine He's like, okay, cool Can I see the machine and they said you can't see the machine He said I I need to see the machine so I can focus on it And they're like it's buried in concrete five feet below you and he was like, oh, well, okay Can you tell me how it's built and they said nope And he was like, okay, can I have a piece of paper and a pen? So they tore off some of the graph paper and gave it to him. And he sat there and he really focused on it and he started sketching. And he was like, is this it? And he had almost a dead-on blueprint of it. And they were like, yeah, that's, I mean, this is super top secret classified, so give us that. But yeah, that's it. He's like, cool. And he's focused on it and moved the needle on the machine. And they were like, get the fuck out, do it again. And he was like, okay. And he focused on it again and did it again. And they were like, holy shit. This guy is magic. And they were all pumped on him. They wouldn't let him see the machine. He was in a sealed concrete room with a heavy vault door.

Again, five feet below him, under concrete. They said nothing from the outside world can make it register. So, except a nuclear blast. He said, you know, they had him sketch it out and everything. And it really blew their minds that he was able to do that. He manipulated the needle twice. And then the CIA was like, hey, we want to talk to him. And we need to be involved in Ingo Swann. Not because he can move the needle. We don't give a shit about that. How is he able to see the machine? That's what we want to know.

And so that was when Ingo Swann and the CIA started getting together. But he did say, and I thought it was pretty cool, he said, I am not this body in terms of consciousness, and consciousness can go places the body can't. So he's like, he basically says he just leaves his body and goes where he has to. So he went underground five foot to that machine? Through the concrete, saw the machine, manipulated the needle on it. Yeah, pretty cool. He remote viewed Jupiter one time, nine months before the Voyager got there. And he described rings. He said Jupiter had rings, and astronomers were like, no it doesn't. Saturn has rings. And he's like, yeah, so does Jupiter. They're just a lot thinner.

And people were like, and then as Voyager went by, Voyager saw the rings around Jupiter and they were like, yo, don't tell him, but Jupiter has rings. Damn you, Ingo! Yeah, come on, Ingo. And that just threw him off. It was just a very cool thing that he was that good with it. There was another guy named Pat Price, and I will say this about Pat Price. Pat Price is my hero and a certified stud. He was this old dude. He was in his 50s when he met these guys. And he was working at a roadside Christmas tree farm type situation. And these two doctors pulled up from Stanford Research Institute. They pulled up looking for directions or something. And he's like, you guys work for Stanford Research Institute, huh? And they're like, yeah. And he goes, you guys are doing telekinetic research, aren't you? And they're like, yeah, how'd you know? And he's like, I fucking know. And they were like...

Come with us. And so they brought him in. They did all the same kind of things. They had him vetted by all these people and they had him do an experiment. And one of the experiments, he was, this guy was top notch. Like I have it right here. He's a certified stud and I really don't want people to think I'm overselling this. He is a badass. They gave him all the tests that they gave to everybody else. He passed them all with like 100% accuracy. And then he was more accurate than anybody else that they've worked with to this point, including Ingo Swann and Yuri Geller and all these guys. And this was huge for them because they were really trying to get some credibility. There was a lot of people inside the military industrial complex who were like,

We're wasting money on these guys who are meditating and taking naps. Yeah, doing yoga and stuff? Yeah. So they asked Dr. Kit Green. He worked at the Stanford Research Institute. He's down the hall. He wasn't talking with Pat Price, but they were like, hey, give us coordinates on a map. It could be anything.

Don't tell us what it is. Just give us the coordinates on the map. Any map. Pick a map. Give us the coordinates. And he's like, okay. He returned to the end of the day with coordinates and assured them that nobody else would know them or recognize them. They were presented to Pat Price and he began remote viewing. He looked a little confused after a short while and said, this seems to be a strange place. Somewhat like the lawns that one would find around a military base. But I get the impression that there are some old bunkers around here. He saw radio antennas, buildings, flagpoles, and people. Went inside a locked, secure building behind another set of guarded doors and found file cabinets and files inside. He was even able to read the names on the files and could see paperwork on the desk and the numbers on the paper.

And he reported back all this. He's sitting there in this room at Stanford Research Institute, and he's saying all this with his eyes closed, talking about all this stuff that he sees. This is the Christmas tree farm? Yeah, this is Pat Price. And he's saying all this to Kit Green. And he's saying all this to the doctor, and then I think it was Hal Put-Off. And Put-Off shows it to Kit Green the next day. He's like, okay, so here's what we got. Are we on? And Kit Green was like, what? No, this is nothing. He's like, I gave you.

The coordinates to a log cabin I just built in fucking West Virginia. Oh. Like, I don't know where you got this military base shit, but you are so far off, it's not even funny. Well, that night, Pat Price had gone home and remote viewed again himself, by himself, which is a big problem for them because anything that was done like this should have been done in the lab under controlled settings. And him doing it at home on his own was really... Taboo. Yeah, it really ruffled a lot of feathers. So the next day, they were like, you know, hey, Pat, you were fucking off. And he's like, no, I wasn't. I went back there last night on my own. He said, I got some more information for you. These are the names that were on the file. I saw...

He said, I saw Operation Pool Q. I saw the code name Q-ball, 8-ball, 9-ball, and 14-ball. And, you know, so it was this whole big deal. He said, I saw the cabin. Basically, they said, it's a cabin. This is the thing. And he was like, no, I saw the cabin. He said, you guys are the CIA. You really think you want me to go look at a cabin? He says, just over the ridge, there's a military base. And this is all the stuff that's there. And they're like, no, this doesn't exist. We're the CIA. We would know.

So word of what he saw, remote viewing this military base and everything, made its way up the chain in pretty short order. It was a very real place that it turns out he was viewing. The information he got back was also very real and very, very classified. Question number 13. What's the name of the base that Pat Price remote viewed? Is it A, Sanders Air Force Base? B, Sugar Grove? C, Forkins Institute for Nuclear Research? Or D, it didn't actually have a name. It was a black site.

You guys got your answers? I do. All right, we got D. Blacksite? B. Sugar Grove. Sugar Grove is the correct answer. The base was called Sugar Grove, and it was an NSA communications research and development base, so that's where they were working on. Yeah, NSA. In the 70s. Yeah, wow. Yeah, they've been around, man. They've been around for a long time. They got all that funding after 9-11, but they've been around for a long time. Do you know what those operations were? Well, so, no, because they were super classified, and they weren't going to tell, but that was the name.

So it was a real base and the details were exact. The filing cabinet on the north wall, Operation Pool Q, Q-Ball, 8-Ball, all the code names and everything. And it had code name and then it had the agent's name. So it was full information. And as a result, the NSA, the CIA, local law enforcement, everybody showed up to talk to Pat Price because it made its way up the chain of command and all of a sudden this shit is out in public knowledge and he can just walk in and look at it anytime he wants. And that really terrified a lot of people. Pat Price had a target on his back after this. Basically, Uri Gellar, Ingo Swann and others didn't like him because of the abilities that he had. These guys were doing it, but he was doing it better.

and doing it so casually that it irritated them. Like, have you seen the movie Men Who Stare Goats? You seen that? Yeah. Okay. So you remember the scene where they were in the warehouse and it had the shelf with all the boxes on it? And they were in like Kevin Spacey and George Clooney and who was the other guy? John Malkovich. Yeah, yeah. They were sitting there in a row and they were asking what was in the boxes and like Kevin Spacey would do that weird voice. He'd be like, I see. I see. And he'd be like sort of close. Yeah. That was like Ingo Swann. That'd be them. And then like Ingo Swann would go like this and then he would shake and he'd put his fist to his temples and be like, I see.

Water and then they open the box and open the envelope and it would be like a page from a magazine that had a picture of a waterfall Yeah, it's like a big so it would be close not exactly and then they would talk to like Yuri Geller who'd be he would do the temples the fingers on the temples and rub them and he'd be like I see this and he would and then they'd be like Okay, Pat price. What do you see? He'd be like that box has a watch in it. It's broken. It's set to this time It needs a battery replaced It's not really broken and they pull it out and be like holy shit and replace the batteries and oh my god So Pat price was that guy he had that dog in him and they did not like that Thanks, Pat. The jeweler wanted to charge me 45 bucks. Seriously. And even the president at the time, I think it was Jimmy Carter at the time, said, this is dangerous. He said, what do you do if Superman is a double agent? He said he could walk into the Oval Office apparently at any time he wants and read the nuclear codes and there's nothing we can do about it. And if Russia has their own, we're double screwed. So he really had a lot of people on edge. Pat Price was warned of an underwater sabotage mission training that was taking place and that drew a lot more attention.

And I'm sorry, he warned of an underwater sabotage mission that was taking place. And that drew a lot more attention. He was like, hey, some stuff's happening. You guys are doing this. Maybe don't. And they were like, don't tell us how to live. The CIA wasn't thrilled with the fact that he could do any of this. And they couldn't control him because they'd be like, hey, don't remote view. And he'd be like, I knew you were going to say that. Yeah, I'm not saying they killed him. They probably killed him. But a few days after relaying some very classified information that he had, he died of a heart attack. And that same year, it was almost as if he knew it was coming because he called some of his friends and he said, hey, meet me in Vegas. And they did.

and he called some other friends and family to say goodbye, and then he purchased a $1 million life insurance policy and gave it to his wife at the airport before he left for Vegas. Just in case. Yeah, just in case anything goes wrong in Vegas, here's a million bucks. And then he died of a heart attack while in Las Vegas. That same year, the CIA went on trial and revealed the use of what they call a heart attack gun, and it's basically an air pistol. It shoots subsonic darts that dissolve, and it won't leave a mark. It doesn't leave a puncture wound or anything like that, and if it does, it just looks like an enlarged pore. They're that small, but it can induce a heart attack in under two minutes. And they're on trial in front of Congress holding the gun saying, it induces heart attacks.

And he died of a heart attack. Might as well have died of six self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the back of the head. So yeah, I mean, obviously, could be a coincidence, but I've always subscribed to the belief that too many coincidences is, in fact, not a coincidence. When discussing this with Russell Targ, Yuri Geller said the CIA is not in the business of killing people, which... Lies. I mean, so maybe they... This tells me a couple of things. First, Yuri Geller's been working with the CIA for entirely too long, if he believes that. And second, he either believes that because the CIA hires out rather than employ actual killers.

Or he's spewing propaganda because they damn sure kill. I mean Castro, Stalin, Che Guevara. Like, really? But the look on Russell Targ's face, when Yuri Geller said that, Russell Targ goes... And he's just so dumbfounded by it, and it's beautiful, and I love it. Then Russell Targ says, well, they're in the business of making some really complicated killing machines.

And then just for funsies, there was a, we've talked about remote viewers before on the show, and there was a guy that we've read some of his transcripts, remote viewer 001, and his name is Joe McMoneagle. And he was able to find a Russian sub inside a building hundreds of yards from the water, from the United States. Really? They asked him to remote view this site, and he's like, they're building something, and it's big, and it's bigger than anything. He says, I want to say that it's a submarine, but it doesn't look like a traditional submarine. Traditional submarines to this point were long, narrow tubes, and this thing was like two tubes.

And he's like, I can't, I don't know. It's too, but I don't know what it is. I want to say it's a submarine, but it's too big. Turns out, basically he said they had 120 days before whatever this thing was, was operational and in the water. 114 days later, satellite photos revealed what they called the TK-089 Typhoon class submarine, which was two large nuclear submarines welded together to make one super large nuclear submarine. Ah, so it is cool. Yeah, it is. It's fucking cool. He said 114 days later, they checked and they were clearly making moves to launch with the experimental sub. And the response was, lucky guess.

Lucky guess. They told him it was a lucky guess. Uh-uh. Down to the window. Down to the two tubes. Yeah. And upon his retirement, Joe was given the Legion of Merit, and they said while with his command, he used his talents and expertise in the execution of more than 200 missions addressing over 150 essential elements of information for such agencies as the National Security Agency, the CIA, or the Central Intelligence Agency, the Defense Intelligence Agency, Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Drug Enforcement Agency, and the Secret Service, producing crucial intelligence not available from any other source. Wow. So that's on his official military record, that he was able to produce intelligence not available from any other source.

But they still say things like, lucky guess, when you got it right. But he's the one who remote viewed his way back to Mars a million years ago and said everything was green like okra. And, yeah, so, I mean, he's done some really, really cool stuff. And these experiments are obviously, I think, are super cool. But for the last question we have here, we're going to do some zinner card experiments. Oh, sweet. So, there are...

Five different shapes. Oops. I will say really quickly that Clayton has won. Cool. There is no wafer. Not if this one's worth 2,000 points. It's not. We can't make exceptions. I'm sorry. Mama loves you. That's my prize. So we can do this a couple of different ways. I can set out all the cards, shuffle them and set them out, and then let you pick and then call your card before you turn it over. Or I can shuffle them, leave those out there so you can see what's there, shuffle what I've got in my hand, and then let you tell me which card I've got. Do that one. Pull the one and let us all guess the one shape that you've got. Okay. Okay. So...

I'm in on this too. Yeah, you want to be a part of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mosey does too. All right. I got my cat to do it. Yeah. She got it right too. Nice. Yeah, I was impressed. I don't doubt that. I couldn't get her to do it again, but everybody that I've done this with. I tried to give up after one too, remember? Everybody that I've done this with has gotten the first one right and not again, except Jessie, who's gotten three. Really? That's weird. Yeah. Oh, is it weird, Clay? Well, I'm on a losing streak today, so. Okay, so you got a card on top. Do you guys each want to guess at the card or do you each want your own card?

Okay. You do however you want to do. You're in charge. We can each guess for it. Okay. So I've got the card in my hand. Draw your shape. Everybody's got the paper. These are the available options. Are we all doing the one card? Yeah, just one card. I'll hold it up over here so you guys can focus on it. Read through the card if you have to. I got mine. You got yours? I got mine. You got yours? Everybody good? All right, let's see what you got.

Waves, waves, waves. Everybody picked waves? Shut the front door. Holy smokes. I mean, none of you guys are right. But it's weird that you all picked waves. That is strange. What that tells me, though, is that somebody's got some real strong... Because I was honestly thinking about nothing.

I was petting the dog, so I wasn't putting anything out there, but somebody was putting waves out there. Who was done first? I think I was. You were done first? You were real strong on those waves. He's got something. What about that? So, I mean, nobody got any points for it unless you want to run it back real quick. I mean, we can run it back for fun because it's not going to change the outcome of anything. Yeah, let's do one more. All right, here, I'll let you. We'll do this. We'll do one at a time. Okay. Okay. Okay. So here's yours. Okay. There's yours. And there's yours. You got yours? Are we good? All right, what do you got? Square. Plus.

Hey circle waves. Oh, yeah, so all right And you the more you do this via I got them off Amazon like five bucks. Yeah, cool Jeff Bezos in his money But yeah, the more you do it, it's like any other muscle. The more you exercise it, the stronger it's going to get. But going with intuition is generally the way to go because you'll feel it, and then you'll start thinking about it. And when you start thinking about it, that's when you start to stumble over everything and start second-guessing yourself. So what they would do, like when Joe McMoneagle went to Mars, they basically had him lay down and give impressions of what he saw. So they were like, don't worry if it's not making sense. Draw it when you're done. But give us the impressions. We're going to write down everything you say. So that's why he said everything's green, like the color of okra. And I see...

big circles or maybe spheres and they look kind of like antenna and you know what I mean? Like they give these really rough impressions and then the more they focus on it, it's like when you focus in on a camera, how it will come into picture. That's how it works. A few of them have said that's how it works in their brain is that they'll see it and then it just kind of gets into focus the more they focus on it. Well, I didn't see shit. I'm going to start working out like that then. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I think it's a fun... What are they called? Zener cards. Z-E-N-E-R. All right, cool. Yeah. So that's it for today. That's all I've got. Is there more?

That's the end of our freaking show. That's the end of our freaking report. Cool, man. Congratulations, Clay. Yeah, congrats, Clay. Anything you'd like to say, buddy? No, I'm happy that I won. You kicked my ass. You didn't just win. Yeah, I suppose so. You came in with a mission and you seemed to accomplish it. I think I did. I think I succeeded. And I think I might have found out that I might be gifted as well. Yeah, big day all around. Yeah, it really was. I'm shy. Anything you want to share with your fans out there? You can look into that camera right there. Give them some love. Have a fan-freaking-tastic day. Yeah. I know you asked me next. I got nothing.

Yeah, you're closing it, though. Oh, yeah. How about you? You got anything? Your job today. I have nothing. Thank you for helping me lengthen the episode today. No problem, man. Great co-host. Yeah, I do what I can. Yeah. I do what I can. Put you down now and again. Good time central. Occasionally pull my weight. If you guys are interested, you can find us on Instagram at Serial Chillers Podcast. On TikTok at Serial Chillers Podcast. On YouTube, Serial Chillers Podcast. Threadless store. Threadless.com slash Serial Chillers Podcast. There's a new sticker store on there. Don't forget about it. Patreon. Go do that. Get episodes early. See fun stuff.

Call us, 805-666-2513. Leave a voicemail. Make it creepy. Make it weird. You can mail us stuff, P.O. Box 1229, Clovis, California, 93613. Serialchillerspod.com. There's stores there. There's all kinds of dope stuff. I can see it. Is that what's going on right there? Nice. You're making a great producer. You are. You're killing it. The production quality is going to go up the second part of the show, and then it's going to tank again when I get back over there in that seat. That's what's going to happen. Outside of all that stuff, does anybody else have anything they want to add?

No. No. Okay. All right. Well, in that case, thank you for having us. Thank you for being here. Yeah. Good times. And don't talk to strangers. Don't talk to strangers.