Do Human Work

When Claude Mythos dropped, the question wasn't whether AI could find vulnerabilities, it was whether defenders would move faster than the attackers who were already racing toward the same capability. The gap between those two timelines is shrinking faster than most organizations want to admit, and the teams still betting on the old playbook are about to find out what that costs. Nate and Lior sat down with Mark-David McLaughlin, Head of Security Architecture and Engineering at InterSystems, whose software quietly powers hospitals, health systems, and critical infrastructure worldwide. Mark-David came up through software engineering at Cisco, a decade in PSIRT handling incidents when things went badly wrong, and now leads product security for one of the most sensitive industries on the planet.  His take on what AI actually changes is grounded in 20+ years of hard lessons, and at least one story that will make you rethink how much you trust your SOC. Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 03:00 – Mark-David’s origin story: high school pranks, real consequences 07:00 – How incident response is changing where AI is being introduced 08:00 – We're losing the architecture review to AI 13:10 – The bad guys will have this new technology in months, act now 17:00 – The SOC model won't carry us to the future 19:50 – Ransomware, nation-states, and kinetic-cyber fusion 25:30 – If anyone goes onto a web interface in 5 years, we’ve done our jobs wrong 31:00 – How AI almost framed an innocent developer 34:30 – How your team will change as a software architecture company with AI  41:30 – Why healthcare is uniquely hard to secure 47:30 – Rapid fire questions with Mark-David Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

Breakout time has collapsed from 285 minutes to 17 seconds. Attackers are running orchestration agents around the clock while defenders are still scheduling a meeting about it.  Brian Fricke, CISO at AutoNation, has done something rare. He's built security programs from the ground up four times across the military, government, and heavily regulated financial institutions. He joins Nate and Lior, live from RSAC, to break down the governance mistake almost every organization is making with AI agents right now, and what a risk-tiered framework actually looks like in practice. Impactful Moments:  00:00 – Introduction 01:00 – Brian's background: four programs built from scratch 05:10 – Why bad guys don't have a human-in-the-loop problem 08:00 – How to structure an information security program: the full framework 11:50 – Not everything needs AI: the case for deterministic automation 15:00 – The four agent types and why risk tiering matters for governance 19:00 – Why vendors should start agents in read-only mode and earn trust 20:50 – People on the loop, not in the loop 30:00 – Attackers are running at machine speed, defenders are running at meeting speed 33:00 – The inflection point: finding attacks no other tool caught 38:40 – Unpopular opinion: CISOs would make the best CIOs 41:00 – What security teams look like in the future: upscaling with the next agents   Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

The cybersecurity industry has spent decades throwing bodies at the same three problems: too much noise, not enough context, and not enough budget. AI didn't create those problems, but it's about to make ignoring them dangerous. Recorded at RSAC Conference 2026, Nate and Lior sat down with Anthony LaForte, Director of Cyber Operations at an HR and benefits tech company protecting the financial and health data of millions. Anthony came up through forensics, malware reverse engineering, and SOC leadership at McKesson, where a mentor told him on day one that a wrong move here means someone dies. That reality never left him, and it shapes everything about how he thinks about security, risk, and what it means to lead in a world where attackers are automating faster than defenders can adapt. Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 03:22 – Attacker mindset shapes every decision 05:00 – AI lowers attacker barriers, raises ours 10:18 – "If you screw up, people die" 11:45 – 200,000 alerts tuned down manually 15:10 – 800 alerts, one real threat hidden inside 17:00 – Vulnerability management is broken everywhere 22:10 – Security was a point-in-time decision 27:45 – Strategy and judgment belong to humans 34:20 – 25% back? He'd mentor his team 42:05 – "I don't think there'll be a SOC in five years" Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

302 days ago we launched from stealth with a belief that sounded almost reckless: that AI agents could do the repetitive security work that burns out defenders and buries teams in false positives. Today we're announcing that 7AI has raised a $130 million Series A led by Index Ventures, with Blackstone joining as a new investor alongside Greylock, CRV, and Spark. To mark this milestone, we recorded a special episode of the DO HUMAN WORK podcast with Lior Div (CEO & Co-Founder) and Yonatan Striem Amit (CTO & Co-Founder). In this episode, they share what this announcement truly means, not just for 7AI, but for customers and for security teams everywhere. Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 01:00 – 7AI secures $130 million Series A 02:30 – The impact of investor belief 03:00 – Industry-first: AI's reliability in cybersecurity 05:00 – Trusting AI for consistent outcomes 07:00 – What is the Plaid Model? 09:30 – Fighting AI threats with AI solutions 11:00 – Advancing security from human work to AI-driven operations 14:00 – Future-proofing with federated data 16:00 – Elevating security teams with AI-driven investigations Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]  

Most cybersecurity conversations obsess over tools, threats, and tech. But what if the real evolution is happening in the human layer, a shift most in the industry aren’t used to seeing? In this episode, BISO and industry voice Olivia Phillips join Nate and Lior to redefine what effective security leadership looks like in the age of AI. Olivia shares insights from behavioral science, organizational psychology, and decades of cyber experience, revealing why influence without authority, real transparency, and emotional intelligence are now core cybersecurity capabilities. She also discusses the future impact of quantum, the shift toward value-driven security investments, and why trust is earned, not given. Impactful Moments: 00:00 — Introduction 01:00 — What is a BISO 03:00 — AI, quantum, and the next era 05:30 — Building influence without authority 09:00 — Security ROI: “Show me the value” 11:00 — Ego, communication, and human dynamics 14:00 — Trust: hard to earn, easy to lose 17:00 — How real AI adoption happens 22:00 — If Olivia got 25% of her time back 29:00 — Transparency, feedback, and leadership growth 34:00 — Chaos, creativity, and the “cyber misfit” mindset Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

How is AI reshaping the cybersecurity landscape, and what does this mean for the future of cyber professionals? In this episode, Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Ron Eddings, a gen AI security researcher and co-founder and CEO of Hacker Valley Media, to explore these pressing questions. Ron discusses his journey from a traditional cybersecurity role to becoming a thought leader and content creator focused on the confluence of humanity and technology. The conversation delves into Ron’s belief that AI will one day replace many cybersecurity roles, but not without creating opportunities for new, more strategic positions. They also explore the notion of AI agents, multi-agents, and the potential magic of a model context protocol. Throughout the episode, Ron offers insights into how AI can eliminate repetitive, non-human tasks, freeing up time for creativity and strategic thinking. He elaborates on his contrarian belief in the capacity of AI to eventually overhaul cybersecurity jobs, for the better. Together, the hosts and Ron reflect on how the integration of AI in cybersecurity will redefine the way we talk, train, and work in this field. Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 01:00 – Ron’s mission in cybersecurity content 02:00 – From mental athlete to thought leader 03:00 – Creating a platform, not just a podcast 07:00 – AI’s impact on Tier One analysts 10:00 – AI agents explained through a personal story 12:00 – The evolution to multi-agent systems 15:00 – Real-time data challenges in AI development 24:00 – Providing exceptional value in the experience age 25:00 – Contemplating the future: AI to replace cybersecurity jobs Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

In this episode of Do Human Work, Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Dirce Hernandez, Sr. Cybersecurity GRC Manager and adjunct professor, to demystify AI governance beyond the buzzwords. From defining governance in plain language to setting practical guardrails like policies, steering groups, and human-in-the-loop reviews, Dirce shares how organizations can innovate without risking shadow AI, data leakage, or checkbox compliance. He also digs into higher ed’s adoption curve, how explainability is becoming non-negotiable with regulators, and why leadership buy-in beats tool sprawl. Plus: actionable career advice for students and pros alike, evolving certifications (CCSK and beyond), and how AI can supercharge upskilling paths without replacing human judgment. Impactful Moments 00:00 – Defining real AI governance 02:15 – Why tech alone can’t solve it 05:30 – Guardrails begin with clear policy 07:05 – The role of human-in-the-loop 09:40 – Explainability meets regulation 12:50 – Leadership buy-in before implementation 15:10 – Building trust beyond checkbox compliance 18:00 – Mentoring to close the talent gap 19:20 – AI accelerating upskilling in cybersecurity 26:10 – Certifications and GRC evolve for the AI era Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]  

In this episode of Do Human Work, Nate Burke and Lior Div welcome Wayman Cummings, the Chief Information Security Officer at Ochsner Health Systems, to discuss the revolutionary role of AI in cybersecurity. From pioneering the use of robots at the Super Bowl to insights on mentoring diverse teams, Wayman shares his vision for AI as an enabler of human potential. The episode explores how he integrates AI into cybersecurity practices to empower defenders and why he believes in choosing partners over vendors for collaborative success. Wayman also provides a unique perspective on hiring practices that could transform cybersecurity teams, focusing on unconventional backgrounds and innate problem-solving abilities rather than traditional experience. As AI continues to reshape industries, Wayman envisions a future where technology works hand-in-hand with human ingenuity, creating powerful synergies and new opportunities for growth.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 01:20 – Augmented intelligence at the Super Bowl 02:45 – AI in cybersecurity threats and defense 05:55 – Partnership over vendors in tech 08:10 – Unconventional hiring practices 10:30 – Applying unique analyst skills 12:45 – AI's role in understanding threats 18:05 – Predictive analysis using AI 22:30 – Unreasonable hospitality in healthcare 25:00 – The future of AI and human collaboration 27:20 – Humility and communication for aspiring CISOs   Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]  

What insights from past IT revolutions should today's CISOs understand, and how can AI transform cybersecurity in healthcare? Bill Brown, Chief Information Security Officer and Chief Information Officer at Abacus Insights, joins hosts Nate Burke and guest host, Yonatan Striem-Amit, for an engaging discussion on AI's role in securing sensitive healthcare data. Brown shares his journey from IT in the early days to leading security at Abacus Insights, emphasizing the balance between innovation and risk. Discover how AI is reshaping cybersecurity and hear unique insights into transforming traditional roles. Impactful Moments:  00:00 - Introduction 01:00 - Guest introduction: Bill Brown 02:30 - Lessons from past IT revolutions 03:40 - Bill Brown's career journey 05:20 - Challenges in protecting healthcare data 07:00 - AI's role in healthcare insights 10:30 - Impact of AI on compliance and efficiency 15:00 - Balancing security with innovation 20:20 - Importance of balancing human work with AI   Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What happens when a law firm becomes an early adopter of AI? Hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Jason Thomas, CIO of Cole, Scott & Kissane, Florida’s largest civil defense law firm, to explore how AI is changing up the legal and cybersecurity landscape. From pioneering AI in finance operations nearly a decade ago to empowering teams with cutting-edge automation, Jason shares how his firm challenges the stereotype of law firms as technology laggards. Recorded live at Black Hat 2025, this conversation covers cultural shifts needed to embrace AI, the importance of reallocating talent rather than replacing it, and why the modern SOC may already be on the path to legacy status. Discover how forward-looking leaders like Jason are redefining human work, keeping teams engaged, and preparing for the AI-driven future of cybersecurity. Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – Law firms embracing cutting-edge AI 03:15 – Reallocating people to meaningful work 04:45 – AI as augmentation, not replacement 06:00 – First impressions of 7AI’s potential 07:45 – Building a culture of curiosity and trust 10:00 – Marketing hype vs. AI reality 12:00 – Trust and reputation in cybersecurity 13:15 – Why law firms are prime cyber targets 15:00 – The “magic wand” time question 16:00 – The SOC of today is legacy 18:00 – The pace of AI evolution 20:00 – From single agents to swarms 22:00 – Reinventing help desk and user support 24:00 – Correlating alerts like human intuition 25:00 – The future is already here Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What happens when cybersecurity leaders stop just managing risk and start driving innovation? Hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div sit down with Kyle Kurdziolek, VP of Security at BigID, to introduce the bold idea of the Chief Innovation Security Officer. In an era where AI is reshaping both defense strategies and attacker playbooks, Kyle reveals how forward-thinking leaders can harness AI to scale their teams, cut through alert fatigue, and stay ahead of adversaries. Recorded live at Black Hat, this episode of Do Human Work challenges listeners to rethink the role of AI in security, not as a threat, but as an accelerator. Discover how embracing AI to offload repetitive tasks empowers humans to do what only they can: think critically, solve complex problems, and drive the future of cybersecurity.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 00:45 – The birth of the Chief Innovation Security Officer concept 03:00 – Differences between traditional CISOs and AI-driven roles 06:15 – The Netflix analogy: evolving security with AI 10:37 – Realizing AI's potential in cybersecurity 15:30 – Human work vs. machine work: Finding the balance 18:25 – Integrating AI to elevate security teams   Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

How do you secure a company with over 130,000 employees against evolving cyber threats using AI? Michael Baker, Vice President and Global CISO at DXC Technology, joins hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore the future of cybersecurity, emphasizing the importance of staying ahead in the AI era. In this episode, they cover Michael’s journey into cybersecurity leadership, the evolving role of CISOs, and how AI is reshaping cybersecurity landscapes, driving not only risk management but opportunity in the realm of cyber defense. Michael shares his insights from decades in cybersecurity, highlighting the critical need to adapt to rapidly changing threats. He emphasizes the importance of being proactive with AI technologies to empower cybersecurity teams and manage risks effectively. Explore how AI can free up valuable time, enabling teams to focus on strategic priorities while addressing the challenges of adversarial AI and keeping pace with advancing threats.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 - Introduction 03:16 - From EY to CISO: Michael's cybersecurity journey 05:02 - Reinventing oneself: The CISO's constant challenge 09:14 - The fast-approaching adversarial AI threat 12:00 - Urgency in evolving cybersecurity practices 18:25 - Replacing toil with opportunity: AI's promise 19:30 - Upskill and elevate: AI’s transformative role in SOC 36:00 - Transforming traditional SOC with Agentic Revolution 39:00 - DXC's partnership and AI's real-world application Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

Most CISOs are stuck in a cycle of reaction, chasing threats, plugging holes, and hoping to keep up. Mignona Coté is done with that. In this episode, Nate and Lior travel to Dallas, TX to sit down with Mignona, SVP CISO at Infor. Together, they talk about how AI is shifting the cybersecurity landscape from constant triage to strategic advantage. Mignona shares how she’s seen security evolve across industries like healthcare, finance, and cloud, and why now is the time to lead with creativity, not just compliance. From automating defenses to mentoring the next wave of defenders, she offers a direct view into where cyber goes from here.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 02:21 – Balancing offense and defense with AI 04:07 – Not just revenue: using AI to protect customers 06:30 – “Now we have thinking time” 08:00 – Dreaming beyond reactive security 10:30 – What happens when security becomes invisible 12:00 – Rethinking real-world problems: whales, turtles, sandcastles 14:00 – Her unexpected path to the CSO Hall of Fame 24:00 – The truth about breaking into cybersecurity 27:15 – Why AI might be the best L1 trainer yet   Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What if AI could eliminate burnout instead of just speeding things up? Gavin Grisamore, CISO at Lead Bank, joins Nate Burke and Lior Div to reimagine the future of cybersecurity, one where AI agents reduce toil, reshape SOC structures, and elevate human creativity. In this episode, Gavin shares what it really means to manage risk in an AI-driven environment. From rethinking alert fatigue and L1/L2 roles to challenging sunk cost fallacies and shifting defensive strategies, the trio explores how AI is not just another tool, but a transformation. Whether you’re leading a team or navigating boardroom AI pressure, this conversation will challenge your assumptions about what’s next.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 00:53 – The value of leisure in cybersecurity 03:25 – AI’s role in risk management 05:15 – Rethinking security with AI agents 09:00 – Evolution of alerting structures in SOCs 11:14 – The fast and furious future of attacks 15:30 – Sunk cost fallacy in technology 20:31 – Future team dynamics in cybersecurity 23:30 – Transformation of threat intelligence 26:55 – Balancing human creativity with AI capabilities Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

Title:  From Sleep to Strategy: Cyber’s Human Future featuring John Koester Summary:  In this episode, Nate and Lior travel to Atlanta to sit down with John Koester, CISO of Graphic Packaging International, to explore what AI means for the human side of cybersecurity. From reimagining compliance and detection workflows to prioritizing creativity and employee development, John offers a grounded vision for how AI can return time to the people doing the work—and why that matters more than ever. He discusses the pressing need for relationship-building inside large organizations, the risks of fast-moving attackers using AI, and how cyber leaders must prepare their teams to become true business partners. This conversation touches on architectural evolution, risk quantification, and the enduring importance of human engagement.   Impactful Moments 00:00 – Introduction 02:17 – AI gives time back for human focus 04:09 – AI can boost response effectiveness 06:00 – Attackers use AI to scale threats 08:03 – “Fire against fire” in cyber defense 09:00 – Building trust through employee outreach 10:29 – Innovation comes from unexpected voices 13:02 – AI and the future of compliance 14:00 – Toward quantifying real dollar risk 16:13 – Rethinking architecture in the AI era 18:38 – “The current model is kind of broken”   Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What happens when a Marine-turned-CISO stops accepting the status quo in cybersecurity?  Benjamin Delieu, Chief Security Officer at Duck Creek Technologies, joins Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore how AI agents—not centralized systems—are reshaping the future of security operations. From overburdened SOC teams to the hidden costs of legacy infrastructure, Benjamin shares his perspectives from the frontline of transformation. He reveals his DIY AI trainer, an “aha” moment in Italy, and how he’s empowering his team to think creatively and build faster. This episode isn't just about tech—it’s about leadership, mindset shifts, and letting go of the old to build what's next.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – From Marines to AI-driven security leadership 03:40 – How a DIY AI trainer changed everything 05:00 – Kids, travel, and AI integration in daily life 07:00 – “Free the people” from 24/7 SOC toil 10:30 – The CISO bucket list and wasted creativity 14:45 – Flex the AI muscle like a bicep 18:00 – The RFP automation story that saved six figures 20:30 – AI-native vs. AI-retrofitted companies 25:30 – Destroy the old; build what’s next 27:00 – Inside Benjamin’s viral AI Innovation Series 30:00 – Don’t lead with ROI—start with small wins 36:30 – Magic wand moment: “Making memories, breaking systems” 38:45 – Three takeaways for modern security leaders Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]

What would you do with 25% more time?  Travis Farral, VP and CISO at Archaea Energy, joins hosts Nate Burke and Lior Div to explore how AI can reclaim our time from cybersecurity’s tedious tasks—and what we’d do with that time instead. From data sifting and incident response to managing swarms of AI agents, the conversation dives into how the nature of human work is evolving and what defenders should expect next. This episode kicks off "Do Human Work" with real talk about reclaiming creativity, the inevitability of AI-human collaboration, and why the arms race between attackers and defenders just leveled up.   Impactful Moments: 00:00 – Introduction 02:31 – "More time means more human connection" 04:04 – Human work vs. machine work 06:13 – The cybersecurity tasks we want AI to take 07:58 – Managing AI agents like team members 10:22 – AI organizing your personal life 13:00 – Travis’s cybersecurity bucket list 15:30 – The cat-and-mouse game never ends 18:30 – What AI will change in five years 22:14 – Swarms of AI agents talking to each other 26:39 – AI is already part of everyday life Interested in being a guest or want to recommend someone? Reach out to us at [email protected]