The Immortal Life of Agencies

Today’s guest is James Greenfield, Co-Founder and CEO of Koto, the globally recognised branding agency working with companies like Netflix, Spotify and Google.James explains how listening closely to client needs has shaped the agency’s evolution, remaining anchored in brand, but also delivering high quality campaigns and digital products.The conversation also explores how Koto’s buyer landscape is changing, with CEOs now far more involved in decisions traditionally owned by marketing teams. James unpacks the growing importance of consistency across fragmented customer journeys, and why brand increasingly plays a central organising role.Alongside this, he reflects on leadership, creativity and the discipline required to move from practitioner to CEO, offering a clear and optimistic vision for how agencies evolve.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:04] How client-centricity drives growth[07:02] Changes in how clients buy[11:04] Why brand drives survival[14:37] Internal versus external reality[16:39] The cobbler’s children problem[19:28] Three pillars of Koto[21:54] Closing the execution gap[27:12] Qualifying the right clients[30:20] How AI supports not replaces[38:51] Life as a CEO[40:50] Creativity over quarterly numbersMORE ABOUT JAMES:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-greenfieldWebsite: koto.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Marcel Petitpas, CEO of Parakeeto – the agency profitability specialists. He brings a clear and often counterintuitive perspective on how agencies actually make money.Marcel challenges one of the industry’s most deeply held assumptions, arguing that most agencies don’t have a revenue problem, they have an operational one. Through the lens of what he calls “indigestion, not starvation”, he explains why growth alone rarely fixes profitability, and how flawed frameworks around utilisation, margin and pricing continue to hold agencies back.The conversation explores the shift away from time-based billing, unpacking how abstraction, risk and value shape modern pricing models. Marcel also demystifies value-based pricing, highlighting why Finance shouldn’t be leading and what it really takes to command a premium with sophisticated buyers.Grounded, practical and refreshingly direct, this episode offers a sharper way to think about sustainable profitability.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:53] The cycle of insolvency[07:12] Solving the profitability puzzle[13:38] Pricing starts with margin[19:47] Forecast before measurement[23:32] Shifting the client dynamic[26:40] Deliverables versus real value[30:21] Risk adjusted decisions[36:00] Outcomes over everything[40:29] What drives pricing powerMORE ABOUT MARCEL:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpasWebsite: parakeeto.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Enda King, Head of Innovation for Communications, Media and Technology at Accenture. Having also worked in media, advertising and brand, he offers a rare perspective on the convergence of agencies and consultancies.Enda describes how innovation has shifted from long-term strategy decks to faster, more adaptive thinking based on experimentation, collaboration and real-world testing. He explains why clients no longer look for fixed answers but for the capability to continuously sense, adapt and respond in an uncertain environment.Drawing on his journey from Carat and TBWA, to Ogilvy and Redscout, he also explores the growing importance of human judgement, curiosity and asking better questions.This is an optimistic yet grounded conversation about embracing ambiguity, building resilience, and redefining how value is created in a rapidly changing world.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:39] Endless possibilities[04:16] Leveraging creative thinking[07:18] Confidence in uncertainty[08:58] Media roots and curiosity[09:48] Brands shaped by culture[16:31] Failure as valuable learning[19:43] Innovation as team sport[30:44] Think like an antagonist[32:14] Delivering speed and certainty[36:44] An opportunity for better ideasMORE ABOUT ENDA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kingendaWebsite: accenture.com/us-enHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jonathan Emmins, Founder and Global CEO of Amplify, the creative agency known for redefining brand experience for the likes of Google, Netflix, and PlayStation.Jonathan shares how Amplify evolved from experiential onto a broader creative canvas, helping brands become “match fit for 3-D world”. He explains why worldbuilding sits at the heart of their approach, creating ideas that live across channels rather than being dictated by them.The conversation explores the power of culture as a strategic tool, not just a marketing layer, and why brands must earn their place within it. Jonathan also reflects on how Amplify has stayed relevant over nearly two decades – from building teams around curiosity, to balancing scale with boutique thinking.With candid insights on growth, creative integrity and joining Common Interest, this is a thoughtful look at how agencies can evolve without losing what made them distinctive in the first place.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:00] Amplify’s origin story[03:57] A broader creative approach[08:35] Being the ‘safe wildcard’[09:50] The art of worldbuilding[14:42] Culture as a connector[22:56] Curiosity drives relevance[26:30] Being defined by what you refuse[31:01] Joining Common Interest[38:04] A scrapbook mindsetMORE ABOUT JONATHAN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathanemminsWebsite: weareamplify.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Greg Caplan, Co-Founder of Dovetail, the IT managed service provider trusted by leading agencies including Uncommon, Quiet Storm and Isobel.Greg brings a rare perspective on how technology is quietly reshaping the agency business model from the inside out. With a background in post-production and years spent supporting creative companies, he explains why IT is no longer a back-office function but a strategic driver of growth, resilience and client trust.The conversation explores how agencies are navigating an increasingly complex landscape of cyber security, compliance requirements and distributed freelance teams. Greg also unpacks the rising importance of technology in new-business, where issues such as data governance and information security are now central to winning major pitches.AI inevitably also features. Greg shares a pragmatic view of how agencies should approach it, from identifying ‘shadow AI’ inside organisations to building leadership-level understanding of the tools reshaping client relationships.HIGHLIGHTS:[04:29] The technology behind agencies[06:19] AI strategy[09:10] Automation powering freelancers[12:28] Smart cyber strategy planning[15:47] Confidentiality, integrity and accessibility[20:04] Rooting out ‘shadow AI’[25:01] Readiness for leaders[27:19] The rise of specialised AI[29:35] Liberating creativityMORE ABOUT GREG:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/greg-caplanWebsite: Dovetail.londonHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jenny Biggam, Owner of the7stars – and one of the most respected voices in independent media. With 20 years at the helm of the UK’s largest independent media agency, she offers a clear and compelling view of what it really means to stay independent in a market obsessed with scale.She explains how only a purely fee-based model creates true neutrality, why transparency isn’t a slogan but a structural choice, and how partnership sits at the heart of everything the agency does. From working collaboratively with platforms and consultancies, to building creative capability inside a media agency, Jenny shares how the7stars has evolved while staying true to its beliefs. The conversation also explores AI, career acceleration, client in-housing and the risks of agencies describing themselves as ‘platforms’. It’s an optimistic, grounded look at where media agencies are heading and why talent, culture and commercial clarity still matter most.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:33] What partnership really means[08:03] The reality of proprietary media [10:32] Platforms as partners[14:00] Pitching against the giants[19:22] Feedback over flip flopping[25:16] A melting pot of skills[27:20] AI in creative development[29:51] The inverted pyramid shift[33:45] Agencies as platforms explained[36:45] Clients in-housing[39:15] Talent drives renewalMORE ABOUT JENNY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jenny-biggamWebsite: the7stars.co.ukHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Justin Billingsley, Co-Founder of Symbioniq and former CMO of Publicis Groupe. With his prior client-side career with the likes of Unilever, Coca-Cola and Nokia, Justin brings a rare – and often forthright – perspective on our industry.He reflects on Publicis’ transformation and the criticism their ‘Power of One’ strategy received at the time, despite it now arguably inspiring their HoldCo. competitors. Justin describes navigating that change and why many of the decisions made back then are now proving decisive.We also explore the growing divide between specialist agencies and one-stop shops. Justin explains why the real threat to agencies isn’t their competitors, but platforms, consultancies and clients increasingly building their own capabilities.And of course, AI informs the whole conversation – not least how this new industrial revolution is disrupting certain areas of marketing over others, including market research, where Justin’s AI venture, Simbioniq, is rewriting the playbook.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:56] Lessons from Publicis[07:58] Mystery creates margin[11:38] End to end partners[14:41] The observability problem[18:43] Balancing specialisation[21:16] Ideology as positioning[25:26] The art of choosing[26:08] AI and the iron triangle[31:25] Doctor heal thyself[39:15] Simulating people not dataMORE ABOUT JUSTIN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/justinbillingsleyWebsite: simbioniq.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Ben Rudman, Executive Director at MSQ, one of the fastest growing, private equity backed marketing services groups, positioning itself between the traditional holding companies and independent agencies.Ben shares why the agency model is at a pivotal moment, as AI accelerates the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, products and packaged services. He explains how MSQ has scaled to nearly 2,000 people while maintaining their entrepreneurial agility, and why client-centricity must be behavioural, not rhetorical.The conversation explores the so-called Goldilocks zone between scale and flexibility, the realities of working with procurement, and why agencies must align commercial models to client goals from the outset, rather than retrofit them later.With refreshing honesty, Ben reflects on what hasn’t yet been cracked, the talent challenges AI presents, and why creativity and ideas remain the industry’s enduring advantage.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:25] Scaling MSQ[05:11] Revenue beyond headcount[10:07] Uncertainty driving change[13:33] Aligning to outcomes[18:04] Commercial momentum model[22:50] Client centricity by design[25:51] Creating a Market of One[31:33] Building the AI backbone[33:57] Behaviour shapes culture[39:00] Charging for ideasMORE ABOUT BEN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/benrudmanWebsite: msqpartners.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zaid Al-Qassab, Global CEO of M+C Saatchi Group. Fascinatingly, having been client-side CMO with the likes of P&G, BT and Channel 4, this is his first agency role. So his rare perspective is gold dust.Zaid explains why agencies must stop talking to themselves and start truly understanding the complexity faced by modern CMOs – not least how the old brief-led model is being replaced by the need for orchestration.He shares how M+C Saatchi has repositioned itself around ‘Cultural Power’ and why that can – and should – be measurable. The conversation also explores AI, productisation and why agency leaders must make a stronger case for embracing a changing market.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:00] Agency navel gazing[06:28] Treating agencies as partners[07:47] Searching for a new model[11:14] Flexible orchestration[14:08] A former CMO’s advantage[17:32] The Goldilocks zone[22:22] Cultural Power as a proposition[30:35] AI as a democratizer[36:01] AI and the future of work[38:06] Three things that matterMORE ABOUT ZAID:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zaid-al-qassabHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today's guest is Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, sharing his passion for why technology and creativity must go hand in hand.In his view, clients have been carrying the burden of fragmentation for far too long. That’s why his role blends engineering, strategy and craft to help clients navigate modern complexity.The discussion also explores Stagwell’s orchestration platform, The Machine, and how it’s reshaping integration across the marketing lifecycle. And perhaps most provocatively, Craig challenges our industry’s obsession with scale. If bigger isn’t always better, then agility and systems thinking matter far more.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:29] Inseparable disciplines[04:28] Thinking like architects[07:35] Creativity as change[17:25] AI as creative accelerator[22:59] Platformisation of holdcos[26:14] Evolving business models[30:13] Agentic operating systems[36:05] Knowing what to automate[42:31] Mediocrity scales exponentiallyMORE ABOUT CRAIG:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craigelimeliahWebsite: codeandtheory.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s episode features Sean McDonald, Global CSO and Partner at Rethink, exploring the power of belief.Sean’s built a reputation for candour, competitive ambition and an unwavering belief in setting the standard. But he hasn’t always led that way. He reflects on how letting go of the need to ‘win’ every meeting transformed his leadership and why discovering the answer matters more than having it.Following his journey from politics and public affairs into advertising, Sean unpacks the myth of the ‘all-knowing’ strategist, explains why strong opinions must be loosely held and shares how envy can raise standards.The conversation also looks ahead, exploring growth, independence and why agencies must commit to what they optimise for.HIGHLIGHTS[02:10] Bluntness with manners[06:22] Discovering over knowing[12:08] Cult of the hero[15:38] Competition and respect[20:32] Setting global standard[24:51] Have an opinion[29:00] The goal isn't growth[31:18] Making bets[33:21] Growth versus ‘good’[38:00] Embracing the futureMORE ABOUT SEAN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/seanamcdonaldHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Christine Olivas – Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing at Toptal, the world's largest, fully remote workforce.Christine describes how on-demand talent has evolved from a stop-gap to a strategic growth lever for modern agencies, enabling them to build flexible teams that respond faster, protect margins and deliver stronger work.Drawing on her experience scaling on-demand teams globally, she unpacks how moving beyond rigid resourcing helps agencies handle new-business surges, access specialist expertise and reduce pressure on core teams.With an optimistic view of the future, Christine reflects on evolving workforce values, new career paths, and building agencies that are more human, resilient and fit for what comes next.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:33] A shifting workforce[05:03] Dynamic demand for talent[09:12] Moving beyond the stopgap[13:10] CMOs want chemistry[15:58] Support without spotlight[20:03] New business influx[24:29] Flexible pricing[29:01] Freelance is evolving[32:51] Portfolios open doors[36:54] Great ideas come anywhereMORE ABOUT CHRISTINE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/colivasForbes CMO researchHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jared Belsky, Co-Founder and CEO of Acadia – the hugely successful digital marketing and analytics agency. This is a masterclass in optimism, principled leadership and long-term thinking.Jared shares why bravery and belief sit at the heart of great leadership, from taking outspoken ethical stances, to building an agency designed to nurture future CEOs.We explore how Acadia has deliberately moved away from the boom-and-bust model that afflicts so many agencies, instead embracing more sustainable economics and intelligent specialization that doesn’t rely on a single vertical sector.Jared also offers a refreshingly positive view of the next generation, arguing they’re the most empowered yet, particularly when genuinely supported with thoughtful use of AI and automation.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:09] Where Acadia came from[04:41] Integrity in media buying[08:51] Stay profitable while doing good[11:50] Agencies as teaching platforms[17:29] Embracing economic diversity[21:12] The mid-market thesis[23:01] Saying "No" to P&G[27:37] Living the values[30:31] Empowering the team with technology[33:23] Three trends reshaping mediaMORE ABOUT JARED:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredbelskyHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Beth Ann Kaminkow is CEO of Dentsu North America. She brings a rare candour about why so many agency groups struggle to articulate their strengths, and why Dentsu is choosing to double down on strong, clearly positioned brands rather than chasing endless consolidation.She shares her perspective on where independents are winning, why speed and specialisation matter more than ever, and how global networks leverage their scale advantage.Thoughtful, optimistic and grounded in real leadership experience, Beth Ann also cuts through the hype on AI, from its impact on creativity and craft, to increasing appetite from clients for new pricing models.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:06] How technology amplifies longevity[03:56] Restoring growth[08:18] The ‘One Dentsu’ model[12:24] Client-led media strategy[19:08] AI as media channel[22:22] Pricing unique IP[24:06] The needs that indies meet[28:24] Staying focused amidst gossip[31:55] How cynicism hurts the industry[35:44] The next wave of creativityMORE ABOUT BETH:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/beth-ann-kaminkowMentioned in the episode:Robin’s book – Market of One: amazon.com/Market-One-rewrite-competitive-advantageHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zoe Scaman, founder of Bodacious – and one of our industry's most original and outspoken thinkers. She’s built her career by following her curiosity, from her early days at Naked Communications to optimising her own business around freedom and variety.Zoe shares her take on why the traditional agency model has reached breaking point, how creativity is being squeezed by efficiency, and what a new era of talent could look like. She also speaks about building her personal brand, using writing as a thinking tool, and the importance of openness, vulnerability and speaking out.If you’re questioning what’s next for agencies – or yourself – Zoe offers both a reality check and a dose of inspiration.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:03] Freedom to be 'Bodacious'[04:24] The magic of misfits[08:35] Death by a thousand cuts[13:11] Data versus creativity[15:07] Freedom versus growth[21:44] The grey soup crisis[25:30] Breaking silence with courage[27:56] Thinking out loud in public[33:59] Learning through disagreement[37:54] Branding by machinesMORE ABOUT ZOE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zoescamanWebsite: bodacious.beHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guests are PJ Pereira and Andrew O’Dell, co-founders of renowned creative agency Pereira O’Dell as well as their AI venture SILVERSIDE– fresh from delivering Coca-Cola’s fully AI-generated 2026 Holidays Are Coming campaign.Alongside the controversy and lessons learned, PJ and Andrew explain why SILVERSIDE was spun-out as a separate business, how speed and experimentation are reshaping creative processes, and why culture is everything when navigating change.They also explore how AI is accelerating pressure on traditional agency business models – from production workflows to how value is priced and rewarded. This is an honest, optimistic conversation about fear, reinvention and leadership in a moment of rapid transformation.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:13] Reinventing an icon[07:57] From creative indie to AI Lab[15:48] Resilience in the echo chamber[17:18] Finding the hand raisers[23:45] Rethinking creative value[26:00] Exposing broken models[30:31] Learning by doing[33:14] People-first mentality[36:01] The gap between indies and network agenciesMORE ABOUT PJ PEREIRA AND ANDREW O'DELL:LinkedIn (PJ): linkedin.com/in/pjpereiraLinkedIn (Andrew): linkedin.com/in/andrew-o-dellSILVERSIDE AI: Silverside.aiHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guests are Brian Wieser and Olivia Morley – not only the co-hosts of the fantastic ‘Agency Business’ podcast, but Brian is also a seasoned analyst across advertising, tech and finance, and Olivia is an editorial and communications specialist, formerly of Adweek and Forrester. Together, they bring an unusually rigorous focus to the choices agency leaders make. We explore why the sector is not, despite the prevailing narrative, in crisis – and why metrics such as capital efficiency and long-term value creation are often overlooked. Olivia offers a critical perspective on organisational structure, culture, and operational reality, while Brian unpacks how agencies should think about investment, scale and survival. We also dig into whether independents are truly ‘having a moment, the divergence between media and creative businesses, and why holding companies are describing themselves as platforms.HIGHLIGHTS:[01:58] Inside agency journalism[03:58] The business of agencies[07:12] Curiosity behind decisions[12:54] Investing wisely [16:52] Facts over feelings[21:22] Pseudo independence[24:38] Media scale versus creativity[26:53] Agencies as platforms[31:04] Technology drives consolidation[37:54] Specialisation as strategyMORE ABOUT OLIVIA AND BRIAN:LinkedIn (Olivia): linkedin.com/in/oliviamorleyFusion Front Media: linkedin.com/company/fusionfront-mediaLinkedIn (Brian): linkedin.com/in/brianwieserMadison & Wall: madisonandwall.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Luke McKelvey, Co-Founder and CEO of MIRIMAR – the creative company helping brands achieve cultural significance in a world where traditional advertising isn’t enough. And as of last week, ADWEEK’s newly minted small agency of the year for 2025.Luke reflects on MIRIMAR’s early challenges, from launching ‘too soon’ in 2019 to navigating the pandemic. He also shares how conviction, focus, and a clear filtering system helped them find their footing with the right clients.The conversation breaks down MIRIMAR’s ‘foundation and fame’ model – aligning brand and business, with smart talent partnerships that create impact without relying solely on paid media. Packed with sharp thinking, honest lessons, and a healthy dose of optimism, this is a masterclass in building an agency you truly believe in. HIGHLIGHTS:[02:02] Navigating early challenges[06:58] Ambition over status quo[09:26] The power of clarity[15:51] Foundation and fame[17:58] Positioning as an entertainment agency[26:17] New era of partnerships[29:18] Aligning intent and incentives[35:12] Doubling down on insight[38:47] Why north stars matter[41:21] Making work worth itMORE ABOUT LUKE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/luke-mckelveyWebsite: mirimarus.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaireIs your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Richard Huntington – former Chief Strategy Officer and Chairman of Saatchi & Saatchi. He brings a rare blend of honesty, affection and sharp-edged provocation to this conversation about the agency business. Richard describes an industry that’s been commodified – caused by the “creative” agency label that stripped out the commerciality, as well as a pitching culture that trains agencies to give away their most valuable thinking for free.But far from being downbeat, this is a rallying cry for the brilliance inside agencies, and a clear-eyed look at why talent deserves to be paid fairly for the value it creates. From productisation and pricing, to shifting C-suite perceptions, Richard shares his vision for a healthier, more sustainable industry built on confidence, credibility and genuine differentiation.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:20] Advertising’s not dead yet[07:50] Commodified by clients[09:02] Creative as an adjective[17:15] Reclaiming agency swagger[19:41] Collective industry reform[21:56] Rewriting the rules of pitching[24:58] The remuneration shift[28:36] Power of proprietary thinking[34:12] Golden era of startupsMORE ABOUT RICHARD:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/richard-huntington-59a3761b9HOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Market of One If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Christy Hiler, owner of Cornett – the Lexington-based creative agency – and one of our industry’s leading voices for women-owned agencies. A huge advocate of empowering talent, Christy candidly shares her own unusual journey from being Cornett’s president to its owner, including the convictions that guided her forward – and the doubts that held her back. She talks about the importance of the ‘beautiful but deadly’ venus flytrap in describing what makes Cornett different, as well as her commitment to constant evolution. Christy also describes how the striking stat that only 1% of US agencies are women-owned sparked the creation of ‘Own It’ – a vibrant community, podcast and summit supporting women who run agencies.This is an inspiring story and taking charge and making a real difference to the wider industry. HIGHLIGHTS:[05:27] The underdog spirit[09:38] The venus flytrap idea[13:15] Building long-term relationships[17:33] Women leading differently[21:33] The 'Own It' initiative[28:07] How equity fuels creativity[32:07] Unlocking potential[37:13] Doing things differentlyMORE ABOUT CHRISTY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christyhilerWebsite: teamcornett.comOwnItHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest is Tyler Turnbull, Global CEO of Interpublic’s FCB – remarkably, the winner of Cannes Lions’ North American Network of the Year for seven years running. Tyler shares the mindset that’s driven this sustained creative and commercial performance. He unpacks where resilience comes from, and how curiosity, experimentation and a willingness to challenge legacy thinking underpins FCB’s momentum. Tyler also offers a refreshingly honest view of client relationships – including the crucial roles of empathy and deep commercial impact. Regardless of whether you’re running a small team or a global network, this is a compelling recipe for ongoing success. HIGHLIGHTS:[02:15] The power of consistency[07:27] Resilience through people[10:10] Reinvention never stops[14:31] Walking in your client's shoes[22:28] Challenging old habits[30:46] Why small steps matter[31:40] Culture built on trying[34:28] Being premium by choice[42:16] Commercial experimentationMORE ABOUT TYLER:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tylerturnbullWebsite: fcb.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Market of One If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zihla Salinas, CEO of a 40-year-old indie that rebranded as ‘Yes&’. She shares the story behind the name, including how the improv-inspired mindset of ‘accept and build’ has become a blueprint for the business. This philosophy shapes everything from their M&A strategy and client partnerships, to leadership development and creative delivery. You’ll hear why figure-it-out-ability, curiosity and positivity are Yes&’s measurable values, not just words on a wall.Zihla also unpacks how Yes& cracked the code for working with complex clients, and how great account service – not just great ideas – is often what makes the difference. HIGHLIGHTS:[02:25] The power of positivity[07:00] The story behind Yes&[11:04] What makes Yes& different[16:10] Figure-Out-Ability[19:30] Communication as a superpower[21:33] Redefining client service[23:12] Spotting positive mindsets[28:42] Cultural alignment in clients[34:46] Learning from success[36:47] Smart cross-selling[40:21] Building strong partnershipsMORE ABOUT ZIHLA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zihlaWebsite: yesandagency.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Market of One If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jarrod Moses, Founder and Global CEO of United Entertainment Group (UEG) – part of Edelman.Jarrod unpacks how brands, creators, sports stars and celebrities meet in the fast-evolving world of culture and entertainment marketing. He reveals how UEG structures partnerships that go beyond timesheets and deliverables to also reward performance and behaviours. Jarrod also discusses the shifting power balance between creators, agencies and clients, the pitfalls of inauthentic partnerships, and the discipline it takes to stay entrepreneurial while leading a global agency network.From UEG’s early work with Rihanna to long-term lessons in leadership, this conversation offers an inspiring look at the mechanics of one of the world’s pre-eminent marketing disciplines. HIGHLIGHTS:[02:01] The role of emotion[04:35] Enhancing culture[07:46] Taming the celebrity–brand beast[09:35] Three truths of partnership[12:34] Game plans for every client[17:43] Believable spontaneity[22:20] What kills authenticity[27:57] Discovering Rihanna with Jay-Z[33:51] UEG’s commercial formula[35:58] Engaging the C-suiteMORE ABOUT JARROD:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jarrod-mosesWebsite: uegworldwide.com/HOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Website: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Market of One If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Loren Grossman, Global Chief Strategy Officer of the ‘Solutions Group’ within Publicis Groupe – so he’s right at the centre of how the agency world is evolving.Loren describes a ‘golden age’ of impact, explaining how Publicis has built a future-facing model that goes far beyond marketing communications. From bold acquisitions like Epsilon and Sapient, to their ‘Power of One’ approach that brings every capability together, he shares how the group has worked hard to make integration really work – and how that’s fuelled their relentless new-business success with the likes of Coke and Mars. Packed with insights on leadership, culture and the real opportunities in AI and data, this conversation paints a truly optimistic picture of where agencies are headed and how to stay relevant in a rapidly changing market. HIGHLIGHTS:[02:31] Loren’s role[07:44] Reinventing HoldCo.s[09:26] How structure enables strategy[13:19] Making bold acquisitions[15:01] Integration made practical[22:53] The ‘Power of One’ in action[28:10] Partnership as a differentiator[33:05] Avoiding the AI trap[35:22] Building on CRM’s legacy[39:18] The golden era of impactMORE ABOUT LOREN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/loren-grossmanWebsite: publicisgroupe.com/frHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest – for our 50th episode! – is Haley Hunter, Co-Founder of Party Land – proudly known as comedy’s greatest ad agency. In this lively conversation, Haley unpacks how humour has become a strategic superpower, not just a punchline.She shares how Party Land went from convincing clients that comedy belonged in advertising to being the go-to agency for those wanting to master it – not least Liquid Death. Haley also dives into the neuroscience behind laughter, explaining how it primes audiences for connection and recall.Beyond the creative side, she reveals how empathy, autonomy and trust fuel Party Land’s remote office set-up – and why comedy is as much about mindset as it is about craft.It’s an inspiring lesson in leading with conviction, creating a new category and finding joy in the serious business of marketing. HIGHLIGHTS:[01:57] Funny as a superpower[04:05] Making the case for comedy[11:08] Owning creative outcomes[13:17] The art of pushing just enough[16:23] Authenticity at work[17:46] Freedom and liberation[25:11] Finding the right people [29:51] Behind the laughter[33:29] The biggest risk in advertising [38:23] Leading with joy and convictionMORE ABOUT HALEY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/hihaleyhunterWebsite: partyland.coHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Market of One If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

In a first for the show, today we have not one but two guests – Jaime Robinson and Lisa Clunie, co-founders of the creative agency JOAN, born in NYC and now smashing it in London and Berlin too. Jaime and Lisa reveal how they’re blending the rigour of classic brand building with the pace and energy of modern culture. They share why they believe now is a golden age of creativity, how disruption is reshaping the talent model and what it means to modernise brands.You’ll hear their take on what makes a great client–agency fit, why conviction matters more than buzzwords, and how AI and reverse mentorship could define the next generation of creative leaders. It’s an authentic, optimistic conversation that captures the spirit of JOAN: bold, human and unapologetically modern.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:04] Joan's legendary beginnings[06:56] Building timeless brands[09:27] Firing clients that don’t fit[13:59] Audience-first creativity in action[16:17] Into a golden age[19:21] An alchemy of strengths[24:33] Wisdom meets the machine[26:03] The power of shared mentorship[30:36] Pitches as creative playgrounds[34:18] A new industrial revolutionMORE ABOUT JAIME & LISA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/hellojaimerobinsonLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lisaclunieWebsite: joancreative.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of OneMentioned in this episode:Market of One If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Andrew Swinand, CEO of Inspired Thinking Group, a PE-backed and AI-enabled content business that is scaling faster than most in our industry. With two decades at Publicis, including running Leo Burnett and leading creative in the US, Andrew brings a rare dual perspective on both the creative and operational sides of the business.He shares why the HoldCo.s are trapped in the classic Innovator’s Dilemma and how AI is reshaping the economics of content production. But far from AI replacing creativity, Andrew explains why operational AI is actually paving the way for a new creative renaissance.From automating tens of thousands of assets, to rethinking how talent and technology combine, Andrew cuts through the noise to offer a clear view of the pressures and possibilities facing agencies today.HIGHLIGHTS[01:54] Taking the entrepreneurial path[04:32] Why AI won’t replace creativity[07:53] Blockers to agency innovation[13:37] Delivering scale and speed[17:53] Fear, uncertainty and hype[23:46] Generative AI's real limits[25:18] A new creative renaissance[30:48] Leading with honesty[32:37] Embracing humanityMORE ABOUT ANDREW:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/andrewswinandWebsite: inspiredthinking.groupHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest is John Harris, President & CEO of Worldwide Partners Inc. With nearly a decade leading the world’s most collaborative network of independent agencies – and a prior career inside holding companies – he brings a rare balance to one of the industry’s most polarised debates.John explains indies’ undoubted ‘moment’, but also recognises the unique strengths of the holding company model. From global media buying muscle to the power of local market fluency, John unpacks where each approach adds value to clients.Along the way, he shares how CMOs are regaining influence in the boardroom, why collaboration can’t be mandated and how AI is reshaping agency models. Optimistic, practical and refreshingly honest, John offers genuine insight for agencies of all sizes.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:17] Why ‘indies vs. HoldCo.s’ isn’t helpful[06:29] The impact of local knowledge [10:46] Combining access, flexibility and partnership[17:31] Proof points over promises[19:27] From a moment to a movement[22:32] Collaboration over scale[27:47] Don't mess with culture[30:00] Disrupting production and pricing[33:49] Rise of the CMO[36:30] What clients rarely admitMORE ABOUT JOHN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/netharrisWebsite: worldwidepartners.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest is the incomparable Karen Martin, CEO of BBH London and Dublin, and President of the IPA. Known for her infectious optimism, Karen brings a fresh perspective to how agencies can thrive in uncertain times.For her, positivity is more than just a nice-to-have – it’s a business imperative that lifts entire industries. Karen also argues that the sector is in better shape than many fear, and urges agency leaders to celebrate each other’s success more often.Karen also dives into the importance of attracting diverse new talent, why AI should be embraced rather than feared, and how BBH’s famous ‘Barn’ programme is helping the next generation of creatives cut their teeth. Along the way, she explains why she believes creativity will always be the industry’s most powerful commercial tool, and how BBH has maintained its stellar reputation for so long. HIGHLIGHTS[02:10] How energy fuels creativity[06:36] Fresh talent finds a way[10:22] Diversity unearths sharper insights[13:09] People vs AI[14:55] Earning a premium for critical thinking[17:56] Driving business impact[25:01] Partnerships formed through crisis[31:24] Creating timeless platforms[35:55] The value of competition[39:49] Breaking the rules MORE ABOUT KAREN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/karen-martinWebsite: bartleboglehegarty.comBBH Barn: bartleboglehegarty.com/barn2025HOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest is Guy Wieynk, Global CEO of AnalogFolk Group. This conversation is a masterclass in the business of creativity. With 17 years at AKQA, followed by a European CEO at Publicis, Guy knows how to blend scale with agility.He unpacks the shift from big ideas to ‘open ideas’, and why connecting brands to culture isn’t optional but essential. From productising services to evolving pricing models, Guy shows how agencies can deliver speed and value at scale – without sacrificing creativity.He also shares how he balances his role as Group CEO with the vision of AnalogFolk’s founders, who still play an active role in the business. If you’re curious about taking your clients on a journey towards new ways of working, this episode is full of real world insights. HIGHLIGHTS:[03:04] Inside AnalogFolk’s strategy[04:34] Lessons from AKQA and Publicis[09:15] From hamster wheel to blank canvas[14:19] The explosion of personalised content[19:54] Defining a brand’s place in culture[21:12] From campaigns to ecosystems[26:43] Balancing hours, sprints and licensing models[27:51] Taking conservative clients on a journey[28:23] Model clients actually want[35:45] How agility defines the futureMORE ABOUT GUY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/guywieynkWebsite: analogfolk.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest is Dimi Albers, CEO of Dept – one of the new breed of fast-growth PE-backed agency groups. And if you think rapid scaling comes at the cost of culture, this conversation will prove you wrong.Dimi shares how Dept has grown from 120 people in the Netherlands to more than 4,000 across 20+ countries – all while maintaining a unique ownership model with nearly 200 equity partners. He explains why having skin in the game creates deeper client relationships and a stronger sense of entrepreneurship across the business.We explore the realities of working with private equity, from ideal investor relationships, to why due diligence matters goes well beyond spreadsheets. Dimi also reflects on talent – what younger generations really want, how to create belonging in a hybrid world, and why 20% churn is actually healthy.Finally, he offers supreme optimism on AI – far from a job-killer, it’s the next big growth driver for agencies bold enough to embrace it.HIGHLIGHTS:[06:21] Dept’s unusual ownership model[08:16] Retention as a cultural strength[10:16] Shifting generational expectations[18:05] Nuance in DEI[25:04] Doing due diligence on your investors[30:32] The realities of competing for clients[34:11] Battling in crowded markets[40:44] AI as an engine of prosperityMORE ABOUT DIMI:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dimialbersWebsite: deptagency.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:Site: codefinery.comBook: Market of One

Today’s guest is Mark Figliulo, Founder and Creative Chairman at FIG – and if you’re worried about AI’s impact on creativity, then you’ll enjoy his proactive optimism.From working with legends like Lee Clow to launching one of New York’s most respected indies, Mark’s on a mission to keep creativity relevant – not least by cutting through our industry's obsession with this brand versus performance. He explains how his team built StoryData – an AI-powered tool that measures and maps the emotional and visual DNA of campaigns. It proves their work is distinctive, emotional and on-brand, as well as reuniting creative and media, protecting the craft and making sure the brand story stays consistent from start to finish. At a time of huge disruption, Mark offers a refreshing and practical take on making technology work for creativity – not against it.HIGHLIGHTS[02:14] Being a reluctant optimist[04:05] How brands thrive in digital[09:12] Being storytellers for the information age[13:21] Data vs creatives[18:09] Automating creative analysis[26:39] How silos weaken brands [30:35] Data as creative stimulus[35:28] The future of AI and creativityMORE ABOUT MARK:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mark-figliuloWebsite: figagency.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMarket of One

Today's guest is an atypical champion of agency independence – Rania Robinson, CEO of Quiet Storm.Rania takes us behind the scenes of Quiet Storm’s 30-year journey – from selling to a larger group, buying the agency back through a Management Buyout, and then transitioning to an Employee Owned Trust.She shares what those decisions meant for their culture, clients and commercial performance, and why intentional ownership has been their secret to staying resilient.Rania also unpacks the common traps that can derail agencies – from complacency when things are going well, to losing control of your destiny in the wrong ownership model. And she offers practical advice for protecting your values, building succession and maintaining momentum through change.HIGHLIGHTS:[01:54] Quiet Storm's unusual model[05:34] Hard truths from selling up[07:56] Structuring deals to stay in control[10:00] When hopes don’t meet reality [12:08] Returning to self-ownership[15:36] Building momentum again[21:19] Culture shift when agencies scale[28:45] Effective succession planningMORE ABOUT RANIA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/rania-robinsonWebsite: quietstorm.co.ukHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMarket of One

Today's guest is Luke Smith, the founder and global CEO of Croud – the digital media agency with a pioneering crowdsourcing model. Luke shares how he left Google in 2011 with the intention of just undercutting the market. But now Croud operates in 120 markets, with 600 people and nearly 3,000 freelance ‘Croudies’, having scaled with private equity investment. He unpacks why investing in technology early on has been critical, why they chose to acquire Born Social to expand their capabilities, and whether the house-of-brands vs branded house model is right for them. Luke also describes how Croud has kept its entrepreneurial spirit alive, carefully bringing in the right leaders at the right time. As he puts it, staying nimble is the only way to keep delivering more value for clients without losing your soul.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:00] Limitations of traditional agency models[04:27] Tapping into the crowd[05:54] Evolving Croud’s business[08:56] Differentiation through technology[10:45] Maintaining conviction to invest[15:28] Avoiding the corporate nonsense[18:24] The impact of fresh leadership[19:49] Bridging creative and media[25:23] Opportunity in disruptionMORE ABOUT LUKE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lukesmithcroudWebsite: croud.com/en-gbHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMarket of One

Today’s guest is Richard Morris, CEO for UK & EMEA at IPG Mediabrands. He’s seen the industry evolve from the high-reach, low-cost media buys of the 90s to today’s data-led, tech-powered landscape. But as he explains, the real competitive advantage for your agency isn’t just about speed or efficiency – it’s about blending technology with the human creativity that clients can’t get anywhere else.Richard shares why liberating creativity across every part of your business – from data and strategy, to operations and talent – is critical if you want to deliver unique value. You’ll also hear how to protect that ‘alchemy’ as clients push for lower costs and faster delivery.From making smarter use of AI without becoming commoditised, to building cultures that attract and keep brilliant talent, Richard’s perspective will help you future-proof your agency and deepen your client relationships.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:37] The shifting value of media[05:16] Principles that remain essential [08:23] Protecting creativity in an AI-driven world[15:47] How values drive creativity[19:54] A new take on measurement [21:38] The shifting role of ‘curation’[25:25] How diversity fuels progress[29:32] Leveling the playing field[33:53] Where success comes fromMORE ABOUT RICHARD:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/richard-morrisWebsite: ipgmediabrands.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMarket of One

Today’s guest is Tesa Aragones, AKQA’s CEO for the Americas – one of few agency CEOs who have also succeeded at the highest level on the client-side. With her background at Nike and Volkswagen, Tesa brings a uniquely empathetic view on what it takes to build stronger, more human relationships between agencies and clients – especially in today’s fast-moving, tech-fuelled landscape.She shares why the best partnerships aren’t driven by selling or posturing, but by purposeful communication, curiosity, and the courage to say ‘I don’t know’. From using AI to solve real business problems, to creating inclusive teams where everyone feels seen and heard, Tesa shows how leadership and client service can be reimagined through empathy and intent.She also reflects on how her personal story – as a woman, a person of colour and the daughter of immigrants – shapes her values and fuels her mission to represent, empower and inspire the next generation.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:11] Loving the work – on both sides[03:58] How openness beats hard sell[08:22] Where trust really starts [13:56] Arriving at AKQA[17:24] The right tech for the right brief[20:20] Leading through lived experience[25:26] Creativity thrives on courage[29:02] Optimism lives in creative handsMORE ABOUT TESA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tesaaragonesWebsite: akqa.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMentioned in this episode:Market of One - How Your Agency Can Rewrite the Rules and Create a Lasting Competitive Advantage - A book by Robin Bonn If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Valerie Beauchamp, VP Global Head of Agency Development and Marketer Education at LinkedIn. And if you’ve ever written off B2B as a less exciting part of the industry, then this episode will change your mind.Valerie spent two decades agency-side before heading to Amazon and now LinkedIn – so she knows the landscape better than most. She shares why B2B is full of creative, strategic and commercial gold – and why you don’t need to be a specialist agency to unlock it.She breaks down the legacy myths that have held B2B back and offers a refreshing take on the needs of so-called ‘boring’ brands – from complex buyer psychology and high-stakes storytelling, to brand building for the 95% of people not yet ready to buy.Valerie also offers practical advice on where you can start, which skills to leverage and how to reframe your B2C experience as a launchpad into B2B.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:20] Valerie’s full-circle journey[07:35] Owning the label of ‘marketer’[09:52] Why B2B gets misunderstood[10:52] Applying psychology[15:32] Finding your ‘why’ in B2B[22:16] Hidden opportunity in B2B[26:01] Reaching who’s *not* buying[30:13] How agencies springboard into B2B[34:00] The knowledge networkMORE ABOUT VALERIE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/valeriebeauchampHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMentioned in this episode:Market of One - How Your Agency Can Rewrite the Rules and Create a Lasting Competitive Advantage - A book by Robin Bonn If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Mojo Supermarket’s President, Armando Turco – talking about reinventing his passion for agency life. After a standout career at BBH, a transformative spell at Vox Media, and a client-side role in the disruptive world of Oatly, Armando swore he’d never go back to agency life. But as you’ll hear, never say ‘never’. He shares how working client-side changed his entire perspective on what agencies get wrong – and what they can get right. From embracing experimentation to staying close to the work, he explains why you don’t have to trade creativity for control.He also unpacks the power of optimism and how leaders can ignite your passion, no matter how experienced you are. HIGHLIGHTS:[01:48] Leaving the agency world[06:20] Imposter syndrome as a growth driver [09:50] Finding freedom at Oatly[15:45] The lure of optimism[20:30] Staying close to the work[23:56] A game-changer for pitching [28:55] What creates credibility[34:20] Embracing your client's business[35:20] The impact of knowing your roleMORE ABOUT ARMANDO:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/armandoturcoInstagram: instagram.com/mojosupermarketHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.comMentioned in this episode:Market of One - How Your Agency Can Rewrite the Rules and Create a Lasting Competitive Advantage - A book by Robin Bonn If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential. Visit codefinery.com/dq

To celebrate the launch of Robin’s book, Market of One, this special episode features a Freaky Friday-style role reversal, with IPA Director of Effectiveness Laurence Green in the interviewer’s chair and Robin answering the questions. Unpacking the exhausting ‘Big Grind’ that many leaders feel, Robin unpacks how agencies can break out of so-called ‘oversupply’ and build a more profitable and fulfilling model. He and Laurence also explore how AI is dramatically accelerating the need for agencies to raise the bar on what ‘differentiation’ means. There’s also time for Robin to provide real-time feedback on Laurence’s own agencies, prior to his role with the IPA. No pressure. HIGHLIGHTS:[03:06] Why ‘Market of One’ and why now[11:38] Why ‘oversupply’ is a lie[21:26] Where lasting competitive advantage comes from[24:59] Happy leader, happy agency[31:36] What agencies get wrong about ‘specialization’ [39:24] From strapline superficiality to lasting change[42:42] How differentiated was Laurence’s own agency?MORE ABOUT LAURENCE:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/laurence-greenWebsite: ipa.co.ukMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Robin’s book: Market of OneHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Maureen Falvey. Formerly a senior exec at Grey, Saatchis and McGarryBowen, she’s now a professional coach and trainer. Maureen explores how a coaching mindset isn’t just a personal development tool – it’s a cultural and commercial unlock for modern agencies.She dives into why coaching is all about asking, not telling, and how that shift helps agency leaders unlearn old habits, show up with greater confidence and create healthier relationships – with both teams and clients.Maureen also shares practical advice for agency leaders struggling with client boundaries, pitching pressures and over-servicing. From improving how you sell, to reshaping team culture, she offers plenty of insights to help you rise above the chaos and lead with purpose. HIGHLIGHTS:[02:39] From adland to coaching[05:31] Staying curiosity[09:19] Guiding not giving[13:22] When to coach vs when to mentor[15:44] Owning your flaws[18:09] Creativity thrives when perfection dies[21:04] How coaching makes for better selling[26:59] Building real partnerships[31:50] Owning your choicesMORE ABOUT MAUREEN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/maureen-falveyWebsite: mfalveycoaching.comMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Project Spring: wfanet.org/leadership/project-springHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.commarketofone.agency

Today's guest is the renowned author, branding expert and industry commentator Allen Adamson - co-founder of Metaforce, adjunct professor at NYU Stern School of Business, and former leader at Ogilvy and Landor.Reflecting his brand strategy lens, Allen explores a crucial yet often overlooked question: if every agency claims to be different, why do so many feel exactly the same?Referencing powerful lessons from his storied agency career, he unpacks the importance of tangible points of difference in how clients experience agencies, including the value of the right behaviors and culture.We also cover why doing fewer things well beats doing everything adequately, how to avoid the trap of constant firefighting and what it really takes to scale excellence.HIGHLIGHTS:[03:14] Everyone’s a brand expert now[05:13] What ‘brand’ really means[06:07] Selling services isn’t brand building[10:31] Customer Experience as a competitive advantage [13:58] Mapping the moments that matter[17:57] Desperation kills innovation[24:07] Anticipate what clients don’t ask for[27:30] Scale means nothing without cultureMORE ABOUT ALLEN:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/allenadamsonWebsite: metaforce.comAllen’s books: Amazon author pageHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Michael Olaye, EVP at Huge - one of the world’s most respected digital agencies - and newly independent after their exit from Interpublic. Michael shares how the recent alignment of Huge and Hero Digital was built on shared values - not just capability - and why that matters more than any press release.His big idea is how agencies can move beyond just ‘making things’ to creating what he calls ‘anticipatory experiences’ that actually unlock value for clients. You’ll also hear his refreshingly clear take on agencies being ‘consultative’. This isn’t just ‘consultancy’ as a service line, but more a way of thinking and behaving that meets clients where they are. If you’re figuring out how to lead through complexity, evolve your offer or just work smarter with your clients, Michael offers a playbook that’s both inspiring and practical.HIGHLIGHTS: [02:00] The merging Huge and Hero Digital[04:03] Putting clients at the centre of change[06:31] Taking your story to the right places[09:00] Creating intelligent experiences[14:49] Where next for digital[17:25] When tech catches up with imagination[21:10] How pricing should reflect value[24:00] Why being consultative matters more than ever[28:14] The hidden competitive advantageMORE ABOUT MICHAELLinkedin: linkedin.com/in/michaelolayeWebsite: hugeinc.comHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Matt McNeany, President of WPP Open. Drawing on two decades of experience helping the world’s biggest brands and agencies navigate digital transformation, Matt offers some much needed big picture context around AI.His ‘streamline, expand, disrupt’ model extends the established benefits of greater productivity and unpacks why differentiated agencies will be more essential than ever as the brand, marketing and customer experience rule books are rewritten.  Matt also offers an unfashionable take on the prospects of the holding companies vs challengers like Brandtech, Stagwell and Accenture Song. Finally he reflects on the human side of transformation, offering valuable advice to all of us knowledge workers to ensure we remain essential. HIGHLIGHTS:[05:59] Why optimism beats uncertainty[07:46] How AI changes businesses [12:34] Efficiency is just the beginning[16:39] How HoldCo.s vs indies will play out[22:10] Pricing in an AI-driven world[27:59] The increasing risk of agency commoditization [29:39] Embracing the reinvented customer journey[32:43] Disruption to white-collar jobs[36:36] The promise of greater fulfillment[37:37] Taking responsibility in the AI revolutionMORE ABOUT MATT:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mattmcneanyHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Lisa Colantuono, President of search consultancy, AAR Partners. With decades of experience and zero time for fluff, Lisa lays bare what agency searches should really be about - forging proper partnerships, not playing matchmaker. Building on themes of trust and transparency, Lisa shares horror stories as well as best practice - including how new-business is never a numbers game, what great pitches look like, and why IRL counsel and feedback is so essential. She also unpacks what the smartest agencies do differently - from demonstrating their expertise, to how they show up with real authenticity. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:17] What search consultants really do[08:49] Protecting both agencies and clients[11:05] The critical elements of a pitch[14:23] How to kill off spec work[18:25] Saying no more than yes[23:55] Fear makes agencies play small[29:40] Beware the industry of rookies[36:56] Better consultants mean better matchesMORE ABOUT LISA:Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/lisa-colantuono-aarWebsite: aarpartners.comMENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:AAR IRL: linkedin.com/posts/lisa-colantuono-aar_aarirlHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Eric Zuncic, Global Managing Director and Chief Product Officer at Stagwell’s creative collective, Forsman & Bodenfors. And he’s passionate about the work. Eric describes why our industry’s obsession with outputs is hampering impact. So if your agency is still taking briefs at face value and churning out content, then you’re missing a trick. He unpacks how Forsman breaks the rules, ditch the hierarchy and prioritise ‘uncomfortable collaborations’ that actually change things. This is about earning permission to ask better questions – and being bold enough to walk away when a brief is just plain wrong.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:04] Redefining the creative ‘product’[06:00] Prioritising 'uncomfortable collaboration'[10:01] Leaping from ‘ask to task’[16:46] The artificiality of pitches[19:39] Being truly different[24:02] Clearing the barriers[26:02] Win the client, not the pitch[28:01] From one small project to lasting change[31:16] Media makes the money, creativity gets the scraps[36:36] Being accountable for changeMORE ABOUT ERIC:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eric-zuncic-3536bb1aWebsite: forsman.comHOST SOCIALS:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is the highly experienced Holly Maguire, Global Chief Growth Officer at Design Bridge and Partners. She shares her unique perspective on how agencies can evolve with empathy, not ego.As her career has progressed from advertising to brand design, and as a former agency CEO, Holly describes the power she’s seen in humility, collaboration and enduring craft skills. We also explore the growing need for greater emotional intelligence - across industry language, client relationships and agency leadership. As Holly puts it, less talking, more listening - and never be too presidential or too detached from the shop floor. With heartfelt insight and optimism, Holly urges agencies to know their worth, lead with empathy, and build on what's already great. HIGHLIGHTS:[01:53] Leadership powered by people[04:20] Creativity needs EQ as much as IQ[08:38] The role of Narrative in agency positioning[09:52] Why creds decks don’t build trust[15:42] Stop talking, start connecting[19:58] Don’t get too presidential[22:07] Leadership lessons from legends[31:58] Unity builds resilience in client relationships[35:22] Use AI to accelerate what’s greatMORE ABOUT HOLLY:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/holly-maguireWebsite: designbridge.comHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is Michael Lebowitz, Founder and Executive Chairman of SPCSHP – an agency that’s defied trends and labels for 25 years, and been a Harvard Business School case study not once, but twice. Using the metaphor of a living, breathing organism, Michael describes SPCSHP as a creative canvas, where culture and imagination are more important than rigid labels or passing trends. We also unpack why values aren’t just something to stick in a creds deck, but a powerful filter for the right clients and talent. And he explains how rituals (even playful ones) reveal more about team health than KPIs ever could.From resisting the lure of being a ‘hot shop’, to navigating a people-first acquisition by MSQ, this is a masterclass in leading with personal conviction – and playing the long game.HIGHLIGHTS[02:05] Before digital was a thing[04:26] The agency as an organism[08:27] Leading with values[11:07] Becoming a solo founder[15:43] Cultural health is success[20:01] How values keep you grounded[24:52] Breadth of creative perspective[28:11] Being featured by Harvard Business School[33:29] Why MSQ felt like homeMORE ABOUT MICHAEL:Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/mikespcshpWebsite: spcshp.comHARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL CASE STUDIES:Big Spaceship: Ready to Go Big?Big Spaceship: The Evolving AgencyHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is a true agency advocate – Marla Kaplowitz, Chief Executive Officer of the 4A’s.As her 8-year tenure draws to a close, Marla speaks up for the pressures that agencies are under and the opportunities she sees in an industry transformed since the pandemic. The conversation explores the value of creativity, why speed should command a premium and how AI can drive premiumisation rather than a race to the bottom. We also cover what does – and doesn’t – work when it comes to differentiation in a saturated market, from the fear of standing out to why criticizing your competition is never a good look. Marla also reflects on leadership and learning from challenges. With an optimistic eye on the future, she celebrates the creativity, resilience and people who continue to shape the future of advertising.HIGHLIGHTS[03:24] How Covid reshaped the market[05:12] The real cost of pitching[09:08] Speed deserves a premium[13:47] The problem with short term thinking[17:54] Smarter ways to win with procurement[20:36] What’s killing agency differentiation[29:15] Being fearless experts[32:02] Regrets as fuel for improvement[35:09] Why agencies are cockroaches not dinosaursMORE ABOUT MARLA:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marla-kaplowitzWebsite: aaaa.orgMentioned on the show: 4As Cost of the Pitch researchHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

Today’s guest is James Townsend — CEO EMEA at Stagwell and also CEO of their Brand Performance Network. Stagwell is now a multi-billion dollar challenger to the established agency HoldCo.s, so how are they approaching growth differently to their competitors? In a word: adaptation — by embracing the evolving needs of modern clients. James describes how Stagwell’s digital-first structure aims to be the ‘Goldilocks’ of holding companies — that ‘just right’ size between up-scale indies and the more established HoldCo.s. He talks about combining creatives, strategists and over 1,500 engineers to focus on solving real-world client problems. And he’s got strong views on why some agencies get stuck in the past and how to avoid it.James also shares how Stagwell approached performance-based pricing, what he’s learnt from rivals like Publicis and Accenture, as well as how they cultivate their entrepreneurial spirit while scaling globally.HIGHLIGHTS [01:55] Building a ‘just-right’ sized agency[06:30] Choosing your clients [08:06] Listening to the market [11:21] Learning from mistakes [16:49] Changing how agencies get paid[21:44] Client-centricity in practice[22:37] The importance of traditional account handling[24:11] Learning from the big players[26:23] Focusing on business outcomes [30:48] Reasons to be optimisticMORE ABOUT JAMES:LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-townsend-7329076/Website: stagwellglobal.comMENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE: Project Spring: wfanet.org/leadership/project-springHOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonnTwitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com

This episode features Nils Leonard, Co-Founder of Uncommon Creative Studio – one of the world’s most influential creative forces right now.It’s a searingly honest conversation about what it means to matter - as an individual, a creative, an agency, and as a citizen of the world.Nils unpacks why many agencies have a broken relationship with success - and why even for a high-profile creative, it’s really not about the work. From an industry perspective, he argues that there’s an even bigger prize to focus on.We also explore Nils’ perspective on the role of conviction and guiding beliefs, not least how they improve the likelihood that your agency will be a success. As he puts it, every moment is a chance to do something different, to believe in yourself and to achieve great things.If you want your agency to really stand for something, this one’s for you.HIGHLIGHTS:[02:12] Launching an agency with nothing but belief[04:40] Becoming a reference point[09:00] Don’t let the work do all the talking[12:55] Winning briefs that actually matter[18:16] Your work evidences your beliefs[24:30] Why AI is a gift for creativity[27:41] How creatives are building their own brands[29:39] Choosing to make things that matter[35:13] Every moment is a chanceMORE ABOUT NILS:Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/nils-leonardWebsite: uncommon.studio/HOST SOCIALS:Linkedin:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn  Twitter: twitter.com/robonnMORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:codefinery.com