The Monocle Banking Podcast

Can finance help solve South Africa's housing crisis? Michael Avery was joined by Alessandro Scalco, Sustainable Finance Transactor at RMB, to explore how innovative funding models are unlocking affordable rental housing while expanding access to finance for underserved property entrepreneurs. The conversation unpacked RMB's partnership with property fintech Indlu, the power of blended finance and data-driven lending, and why sustainable finance is creating new opportunities for both investors and communities.

Johannesburg is at a crossroads - and its future could shape South Africa's economic outlook. Michael Avery was joined by Roy Havemann, who heads the Impumelelo Economic Growth Lab at the Bureau for Economic Research at Stellenbosch University, and Nomvuyo Guma, author of the Lab's latest urban-risk briefing on Johannesburg, to unpack the city's growing challenges. The conversation explored the impact of deteriorating infrastructure, financial pressure and political instability, why Johannesburg remains too important to fail, and what it will take to restore confidence and drive long-term growth.

To examine one of South Africa's most contentious economic policy debates - the effectiveness of Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment (B-BBEE) - Michael Avery is joined by Dr. Daan Steenkamp, CEO of Codera Analytics, and Donald Mackay, Director at XA Global Trade Advisors. Drawing on new research into the costs and outcomes of B-BBEE compliance, the discussion explores whether the policy is achieving its intended objectives of transformation or creating unintended consequences for investment, employment and economic growth. They unpack the distinction between transformation as a national imperative and B-BBEE as a policy tool, while considering what the data reveals about South Africa's current approach and the need for evidence-based policy reform.

To explore the journey of building one of South Africa's leading university-focused investment platforms Michael Avery was joined by Wayne Stocks, Managing Partner at Stocks & Strauss. Their conversation unpacked the challenges and opportunities of commercialising academic research, the structural barriers facing South Africa's venture capital ecosystem, and what it takes to turn breakthrough innovation into globally scalable businesses. 

What does it take for a business to reinvent itself after facing repeated setbacks? Michael Avery sat down with Jorge Mendes, the CEO of Cell C, to unpack the company's remarkable transformation and its vision for a new era of telecommunications in South Africa. The conversation explored how Cell C has reimagined its operating model, embraced strategic partnerships and built a leaner, more agile business designed for long-term sustainability. They also discussed the importance of disciplined execution and the evolving role of collaboration in the telecoms sector.

Artificial intelligence is reshaping industries, markets, and societies - but what does it reveal about us? Michael Avery sat down with Nic Andrew, Managing Director at Nedgroup Investments, to explore the intersection of AI, human behaviour, and decision-making. Their conversation unpacked how AI is influencing investment strategies, transforming the future of work, and reshaping traditional approaches to learning and career development. They also examined the growing importance of trust, governance, and critical thinking as AI becomes increasingly embedded in everyday life.

What does it take to build a world-class agricultural export industry from the heart of the Karoo? This week Michael Avery was joined by David Muller, CEO of Prieska Pistachio Company, to explore how a once-abandoned pistachio farming venture is being transformed into a premium South African success story. Their conversation unpacked the persistence required to overcome complex farming challenges, and why South African farmers continue to compete on the global stage through innovation and resilience. David also shared insights into the growing global demand for pistachios, South Africa's unique competitive advantages in the sector, and what it takes to attract the patient capital needed to build a world-class agricultural venture.

For a thought-provoking conversation unpacking South Africa’s 2026 Tax Freedom Day, Michael Avery was joined by Dr Richard Grant, Professor of Finance & Economics at Cumberland University and Senior Consultant for the Free Market Foundation. The discussion explored the relationship between taxation, government spending, and economic growth in South Africa, while examining how policy choices, public investment, and trust in institutions shape the country’s long-term fiscal and economic future. The conversation also considered what conditions are needed to support productivity, expand opportunity, and create sustainable growth.

As AI rapidly reshapes the financial sector, the question is no longer whether regulators should respond - but whether they can keep pace. Michael Avery was joined by Fundi Tshazibana, Deputy Governor of the South African Reserve Bank and CEO of the Prudential Authority, for a timely conversation examining how the industry is navigating the accelerating rise of generative AI. The discussion explored the growing complexity AI introduces to financial supervision, the risks posed by increasingly powerful frontier models, and the vulnerabilities they could expose across banking systems and critical infrastructure. It also offered a clear look at how South Africa is approaching oversight, innovation, and risk in an AI-driven future.

As the agricultural sector gathers at NAMPO this week, Michael Avery was joined by Eric Enslin, CEO of FNB Private Bank, for a conversation exploring the growing complexity of modern agriculture. They unpacked the financial, structural, and generational challenges facing South African farming families today. The discussion also highlighted the increasingly important role of integrated banking and advisory support in helping farming businesses navigate uncertainty, protect legacy, and build sustainable futures for generations to come.

As stablecoins move from crypto curiosity to financial infrastructure, South Africa is being forced to answer a much bigger question: who will control the future of digital money? Michael Avery was joined by Ashlin Perumall, Partner in M&A & Head of IPTech at Baker McKenzie SA, to unpack South Africa’s evolving regulatory approach to stablecoins and what it could mean for banks, fintechs, investors, and the broader financial ecosystem. Their conversation explored the shift toward a bespoke regulatory framework, the growing role of stablecoins in payments and financial infrastructure, and how regulatory certainty could reshape competition, partnerships, and M&A activity in the digital assets space.

Capital is still moving, but far more selectively. Michael Avery was joined by Theo Sibiya (Partner at Kearney) and Terence Toland (Principal, Global Business Policy Council at Kearney) to unpack insights from Kearney 2026 FDI Confidence Index, exploring how geopolitics, industrial policy, and innovation are reshaping global investment flows. They discussed why capital is increasingly favouring technology and infrastructure plays over traditional growth drivers, and what this means for South Africa’s positioning. The conversation highlighted South Africa’s mix of progress and pressure, with improving stability offset by structural challenges.

If you think fintech is all about slick apps and digital wallets, this conversation might change your perspective… Michael Avery was joined by Jonathan Smit, co-founder of PayFast, to unpack his entrepreneurial journey and the evolution of payments in South Africa. From identifying payments as a critical gap in the early internet economy to exploring how fintech has shifted from standalone products to embedded features within broader financial ecosystems. The discussion also touched on Smith’s move toward infrastructure through his acquisition of iVeri, and why the real scarcity in the ecosystem isn’t capital - but founders with the grit and ability to execute.

Restructuring is often seen as a last resort - but what if that thinking is costing companies their survival? Michael Avery was joined by CEO of RTgroup, Michael Dorn, to unpack the critical evolution of business restructuring, highlighting how companies typically engage restructuring officers far too late to preserve value. From identifying early warning signs like deteriorating cash flow and C-suite denial, to reframing turnaround strategies as compelling investment cases, the conversation offered practical insights for leaders navigating uncertainty - while challenging the stigma around restructuring as a proactive tool for resilience rather than a last resort.

Sustainable finance has evolved from intent to accountability - and in South Africa, that shift is becoming tangible. In a country where water scarcity is a growing constraint, natural capital is being redefined as critical infrastructure, with capital markets beginning to price in real environmental outcomes. Michael Avery was joined by Martin Potgieter (Director of Natural Capital at RMB), Kalina Miller (Regional Manager, IFC), and Louise Stafford (Country Director, The Nature Conservancy) to unpack South Africa’s first water performance-based bond - an innovative structure where investor returns are directly linked to verified ecological results.

Insurance in Africa is changing fast. AI can now flag fraud in seconds, mobile platforms are reshaping access, and customer expectations are higher than ever. This week, Michael Avery spoke with Pravin Kalpage, CEO of Hollard International, about what these shifts really mean for the industry. Kalpage shared how insurance is moving beyond transactions toward ongoing engagement - and why partnership-led growth is proving powerful across Africa.

South Africa’s banks are delivering strong financial results - but the real story lies in what sits beneath the numbers. Michael Avery was joined by PwC Africa’s Financial Services Leader, Costa Natsas, as they unpacked the sector’s latest results and explored what’s driving performance in a shifting economic and competitive landscape. Beyond the headline growth, the conversation examined the structural changes reshaping banking - from the uncertain returns on AI investments to the race for personalisation, SME growth, and pan-African expansion - and what it will take for incumbents to stay competitive in an increasingly tech-driven world.

After unpacking payments modernisation over the past two episodes - from infrastructure to fintech innovation - this conversation turns to the real test: adoption. How do these changes translate into everyday economic activity for millions of South Africans? Hema Morar, Executive Head of FNB eWallet, shares how the platform is evolving to meet the realities of informal income, using AI, alternative data, and accessible channels like WhatsApp to drive meaningful financial inclusion.

Following last week’s conversation on the infrastructure behind South Africa’s payments modernisation, this episode shifts to the merchant frontlines as Michael Avery sat down with Rachel Cowan, Interim CEO of Ozow. The discussion unpacked the growing shift toward real-time account-to-account payments and the importance of interoperability across the ecosystem. Rachel shared how evolving payment rails, including PayShap, are reshaping the checkout experience for South African businesses - and how these changes can improve cash flow, support financial inclusion, and unlock new opportunities in digital commerce.

Through the Payments Ecosystem Modernisation Programme (PEM), South Africa is moving away from legacy infrastructure toward faster, more open payment rails. Michael Avery spoke with Marin Cundall, Managing Executive: Identity, Customer, and Payments GoTyme Bank, to unpack what this shift means for banks, fintechs, and the broader economy. From instant payments and interoperability to the role of digital identity and regulatory reform, the conversation explored how modernising the “arteries” of the financial system could reshape how money moves in SA.

Banking regulation today extends far beyond capital adequacy - fundamentally changing how shareholders, boards, and acquirers must approach transactions. Michael Avery met with Deborah Carmichael, Executive in ENS’s Banking and Finance practice, to unpack cross-border control of South African banks: why deals succeed, why they stall, and how to get them over the line, in light of the recent collapse of the proposed Bidvest Bank / Access Bank transaction. From prudential scrutiny to governance, risk, and supervisory expectations, banking deals demand patience, precision and, above all, regulatory credibility.

This week, Michael Avery set out to understand why electricity reform is becoming far more than an energy story - and what it means for investment, market structure, and economic growth. He spoke with Peter Attard Montalto, Managing Director at Krutham and one of South Africa’s most incisive political-economy analysts, whose team authored a report on behalf of the South African Electricity Traders Association, alongside Cathy Oxby, Co-Founder and Chief Commercial Officer at Africa GreenCo. Tune in to understand how South Africa’s energy transformation could reshape the broader economy.

Recorded during the African Mining Indaba in Cape Town, Michael Avery spoke with Thobela Bixa, Senior Research Analyst at Nedbank CIB, about copper’s evolving role in the global economy. The conversation explored Africa’s geological advantages alongside the infrastructure and energy constraints shaping future supply. As copper transitions from industrial commodity to strategic economic infrastructure, the speakers reflected on the implications for pricing, investment, and Africa’s role in the global energy transition.

To understand why regulation should be seen as an enabler rather than a barrier to innovation, Michael Avery met with Lerato Lamola, Partner at Webber Wentzel. They unpacked why thinking outside the box and adopting a consumer-first mindset is critical, and how this applies to South Africa’s shifting retail banking and fintech landscape, particularly in light of the Conduct of Financial Institution's (COFI) mandate. Lerato also shared her expertise on payments infrastructure, crypto regulation, exchange controls, and new opportunities for non-bank payment providers.

To explore how embedded insurance is reshaping the industry across South Africa and Africa, Michael Avery was joined by Deloitte Africa’s Insurance Sector Advisory Lead, Andrew Warren. They unpacked how banks, telcos, and fintechs are using technology to simplify underwriting, automate claims, and bring insurance directly into everyday platforms - raising important questions about how traditional insurers can maintain visibility and customer connection.

Bringing it full circle from the very first episode, Michael Avery met with Monocle CEO David Buckham. David unpacked the moments that shaped Monocle: surviving the global financial crisis, prioritising integrity and culture, and expanding into risk and technology as both were being radically redefined. From Basel II to AI, from cloud migration to geopolitical fault lines, the conversation cut across two decades of banking evolution and asked what comes next. One hundred episodes in, the Monocle Banking Podcast remains a space for in-depth, forward-thinking conversation in the banking sector.

Gold prices are hitting record highs - not just because of market cycles, but because global trust is shifting. Michael Avery sat down with Craig Brewer, Managing Director and Co-Head of Origination at Absa Corporate and Investment Banking, to examine what this means for mining and global capital. They unpacked why mega-mergers are reshaping the industry, why copper is becoming the backbone of AI and electrification, and how governance and policy certainty - especially in Africa - will determine where capital flows next.

This week, Michael Avery was joined by Niall Kramer, the newly appointed national spokesperson for the Offshore Petroleum Association of South Africa (OPASA), to unpack the country’s high-stakes push for offshore oil and gas exploration - a move hailed by some as a pathway to jobs and energy security, and criticised by others as a step backwards for climate action. They explored what’s driving the renewed interest in offshore drilling, the potential economic upside, and the environmental and legal challenges that sit at the heart of the debate.

In this episode, Professor David Bach of IMD Business School sat down with Michael Avery to take a compelling look at the leadership capabilities CEOs need to navigate today’s new era of complexity. From geopolitical fragmentation and the rapid advance of AI to shifting trade dynamics and climate pressures, they unpacked how these forces are rewriting strategic priorities for CEOs worldwide. The conversation also examined Africa’s rising strategic importance and what these changes mean for markets like South Africa.

To unpack the fast-shifting world of retail banking in South Africa, Michael Avery sat down with Mutsa Chironga, Managing Executive, Personal Banking at Nedbank. Mutsa shared how customer behaviour, data, and AI are reshaping the industry and offered insights into how convergence across retail, telco, and mobility could redefine banking by 2026.

Following the release of The Spell, David Buckham joined Michael Avery to unpack the book’s key themes. Drawing on examples like Saudi Arabia’s Project NEOM and the global AI race, David explained how powerful narratives reveal the dangers of unchecked power, complicit institutions, and belief systems masquerading as progress.

In this episode, Michael Avery spoke with Jeff Gable, Chief Economist at Absa, and Precious Dube, Macroeconomist for Broader Africa at RMB, about the ninth annual Absa Africa Financial Markets Index, which measures financial market maturity across 29 African nations. They discussed Africa’s growing financial resilience, progress in market reforms, and the continent’s shift from aid dependency to investment-led growth. Through examples across key economies, the conversation highlighted how reform, innovation, and regional collaboration are shaping Africa’s economic future.

To understand what it really takes to make data a strategic asset, Michael Avery was joined by Prashant Rijhumal, Chief Data & Analytics Officer at RMB. They unpacked the changing relationship between data, human judgment, and AI - exploring how automation, predictive insights, and ethical governance are redefining decision-making in investment banking. Prashant also shared practical lessons and a forward-looking view on how data leaders can bridge the gap between information and impact.

In this episode, Michael Avery is joined by Nunu Ngoasheng, Lead of South Africa’s Just Energy Transition (JET) Funding Platform, to discuss how her team is making sure climate finance reaches the communities that need it most. Nunu explains how the platform connects funders with grassroots projects and tackles barriers facing local enterprises. She also shares plans for a pooled funding model that unites investors and philanthropies to better support community-driven climate solutions — a step toward making South Africa’s energy transition truly “just”.

Africa is warming faster than the rest of the world, making climate risk not only a major financial challenge but also a growing opportunity for the continent’s banking sector. Michael Avery speaks with Yaseen Lockhat, Senior Specialist in Sustainable Finance at the Banking Association of South Africa (BASA), about how this reality is pushing banks to adjust traditional risk models, data systems, and lending practices. The discussion highlights how African banks are evolving their approach to sustainability - turning climate challenges into opportunities for growth, resilience, and long-term impact.

In this week’s episode, Michael Avery sat down with Lino Ferreira, who reflects on the lessons learned after selling their family business, The Fruitspot, to Massmart - and navigating the complex realities of M&A. Starting over in a 30m² kitchen, Lino and his son built Ferreira Fresh into a powerhouse moving over 250 tons of produce daily. After weathering the impact of COVID and forming a strategic 40% partnership with Vuna Partners, they’re now targeting R2 billion in revenue.

Since its launch in 2019, PayJustNow has processed over R11 billion in transactions, opening access to credit for millions of previously unbanked consumers. Michael Avery sat down with the platform’s Chief Data and Analytics Officer, Mark McChlery, to discuss how South Africa’s Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) sector is reshaping financial inclusion. Mark shared how PayJustNow is building financial identity through transaction data, as well as how they’re addressing global competition, risk management, and the future of regulation in this rapidly evolving space.

Despite the fintech hype, cash still accounts for 56% of transactions in South Africa. Michael Avery sat down with Ontiretse Modise, Standard Bank CIB’s newly appointed Head of Payments, about what’s really driving Africa’s evolving payment landscape. From trust and education to merchant acceptance, they explored the barriers to broader adoption, the shift among younger generations, and how collaboration with fintechs, telcos, and regulators is shaping the future of payments across the continent.

To unpack what’s really happening behind the numbers in South Africa’s private equity industry, Michael Avery sat down with Graham Stokoe, EY Africa’s Private Capital Leader. Despite weak fundraising in 2024, deal-making hit record levels, driven by infrastructure, energy and IT. They explore the rise of private credit, the growing influence of allocators, and the challenge of turning infrastructure needs into viable projects - while asking whether the industry can deliver both strong returns and lasting economic impact. 

One year after Sanlam’s landmark acquisition of Assupol, the group is entering a decisive phase of integration with big implications for South Africa’s insurance and financial services landscape.  In this episode, Michael Avery sat down with Bongani Madikiza, CEO of Sanlam Retail Mass, to unpack how this consolidation is reshaping the economics of mass-market insurance and what it means for consumer value and financial inclusion.

Can South Africa move beyond entrenched party politics to build institutions capable of real transformation? To unpack this, Michael Avery was joined by political analyst, Moeletsi Mbeki. They explored the ANC’s admission of policy shortcomings, the potential and pitfalls of a national dialogue, and the urgent need for electoral reform to strengthen accountability. The conversation tackled the future of BEE, the rise of coalition politics, and the role of business leaders in shaping a production-driven economy.

With the rising pressures of emerging risk, systemic risk and climate risk, Michael Avery was joined by Jane March, CEO of Guy Carpenter South Africa. They unpacked how extreme weather and fragile infrastructure are reshaping insurance markets. Jane shared her insights on a variety of key topics, from the use of facultative reinsurance in high-risk sectors and the potential of AI and parametric cover, to the social consequences of risk transfer and the need for a potential sovereign disaster fund in South Africa.

South Africa’s reform agenda is full of promises - but is it moving fast enough? Michael Avery sat down with Business Leadership SA CEO, Busisiwe Mavuso, about the new BLSA Reform Tracker, which measures nearly 240 deliverables across the economy, governance, and criminal justice. From progress on exiting the FATF greylist to stalled reforms at Eskom and Transnet, the Tracker highlights wins, bottlenecks, and the politics behind them.

To unpack how Weaver Fintech’s PayJustNow and PayStretch are scaling faster than peers while keeping default rates below global norms, Michael Avery was joined by CEO Sean Wibberley. They discussed how Weaver is monetising beyond the checkout, why merchant analytics and in-app ad products are strategic, and how the company is leveraging AI-driven dynamic coding to enhance developer efficiency.

Is Africa leapfrogging banks entirely? Are stablecoins the new reserve currency? And can banks innovate fast enough to avoid becoming irrelevant? To unpack the Africa Blockchain Report 2024, Michael Avery was joined by Rob Downes, Head of Digital Assets at Absa CIB, and Brenton Naicker, Principal and Head of Growth at CV VC Africa. They delved into why blockchain funding is booming while the rest of Africa’s VC market contracts, how stablecoins are quietly encroaching on the banks, and whether the continent’s financial infrastructure is on the verge of a radical reset.

Will traditional banks remain dominant, or will they become the back-end infrastructure for a fintech-driven future? Michael Avery was joined by Byron Jackson-Miller from Foord Asset Management to unpack why the era of blanket investment in SA banks is over. They explore how innovations like PayShap and low-cost SME payment devices are reshaping revenue models, the rise of super-apps and non-lending ecosystems as growth engines, and the crucial role of leadership and culture in bank adaptability. 

As the need for robust model risk management (MRM) grows alongside the increasing integration of AI in financial services, Michael Avery was joined by Jos Gheerardyn, CEO of Yields - one of Monocle UK's strategic partnerships. Jos offered candid insights into the intersection of innovation, regulation, and risk, and explained why continuous monitoring and cross-functional collaboration are critical to building safe, effective AI systems.

To unpack the true state of South Africa’s venture capital and startup ecosystem, Michael Avery sat down with Stephan J. Lamprecht, founder of VS Nova and lead researcher of the SAVCA 2025 VC Industry Survey. They looked beyond the R13.35 billion figure to explore the challenges behind record-low startup exits, the impact of exchange controls on foreign investment, and whether government policy is enabling or hindering growth.

In this episode of The Monocle Banking Podcast, Michael Avery welcomed Advocate Thandi Orleyn as she reflects on 14 years of leadership at BP South Africa. She delved into the critical balance between energy transition and socio-economic realities, exploring the future of oil and gas, the governance hurdles in state-owned entities, and the power of ethical leadership to spark true transformation.

Following the release of Verto’s new white paper on the state of imports and exports in South Africa, Michael Avery sat down with Cornelius Coetzee, Country Director for Verto. Cornelius shared insights on how mid-sized firms can navigate regulatory hurdles and tap into global growth, the role Verto plays in streamlining cross-border payments, and why collaboration between banks and fintechs is key to positioning the country as a resilient, forward-looking leader in smart trade.