Hello and welcome to Running Inside Out Podcast, where we talk about the races we ran in, the races we're not in, and getting outside to see what's going on inside the Rochester running scene. In this episode, Jen Malek chats about roads, snakes, roads, sticks that look like snakes, more roads, more snakes, some rocks, some roots. No, and, well, anyways, you see where I'm going. But seriously, Jen is a fastie, serious fastie, who has, she's won some road marathons, like one before and one a year after having a baby. And she plays pretty high in some long trail races, even though she runs and trains primarily on the roads. And she considers herself to be a novice on the trails.
Listen in as we talk about running and racing and roads, and as she nearly convinces me to run down the probably not imaginary yellow brick road with her. But before we get into that with Jen, we have a few short messages, including a shout out and a shout inside out. Is it a shout inside out? I think that's what we're doing. That's what we're going with. So this shout out is for Sheila Egan, and it's from Eric Egan. And he says, you think you can heckle me? You don't heckle a heckler. Also, I'm about to sign you up for a race, so get ready. Wow, that sounds ominous.
But Sheila is a pretty good heckler, though. I've been on the receiving end of Sheila's heckles a few times, so this should be an interesting race season with the Eagans heckling the hecklers. Anyways, do you want to give props to a friend who had a great run or a race? Do you want to rep your crew or tell anyone about a cool race or event? Or if you just want to tell the world your general thoughts about anything, try one of these Shout Inside Outs. It's a way that you, the listener, can get your message on the podcast and out to the world without being a guest or a full-fledged sponsor. And an extra bonus, you help support the podcast. So if you'd like to send a message to someone, perhaps thoughtful and not so ominous or threatening, you can head out to runninginsideoutpodcast.com slash shoutinsideout or find the link in the show notes. Next, one of my favorite sponsors is back, Mr. Josh Stratton, LMT.
Josh is a licensed massage therapist. I haven't said that in a while. See, Josh? Josh is a licensed massage therapist who knows the treatments that active athletes need. He's a runner himself, or he used to be a runner. He's still a runner. He just says he's not. He's retired. I don't know. At such a young age. I don't know. It's a shame to see such a promising young career just be retired. His office is located in Inside Sports PT in Winton Place. He now has new training packages, too, which are pretty cool. They are four 30-minute sessions or three 60-minute sessions, and you can get a discount for buying the packages.
You all know I'm picking things up again, and this year I'm turning 40. So you know why. You'll probably see me on your way into Josh's office or on the way out, whichever. Whichever where the agendas go. You better believe that I'll be making some stops over to Josh before I get those familiar ace and pains, because that's what smart old guys do. Smart old guys go before things hurt, not after. Anyway, head out to his website at joshstrattonlmt.com. You can find that link in the show notes as well to learn more and to book an appointment.
Tell him you heard about here on this podcast because he wants to know that. Thanks to Josh for continuing to sponsor the show. If you're wondering where those show notes are, they're at runninginsideoutpodcast.com slash 060. And with that, let's get into the trails, training, food, friends, and yes, even feelings of runners just like you. So your first race was a marathon. That's where you decided, I want to start running.
Um, so my friend asked if I wanted to do a marathon with her. It was like her bucket list. Neither of us were runners. So I said, sure, I'll do a marathon with you. Um, and then that's how I started. And we did wine glass and she never ran again. And here I am doing a hundred milers. Um, so what was, what was your, what was your motivation when you decided to do that? Like to support her, to just be a good friend? Yeah. I mean, just to have fun. Like, um, we were training for it together. I did a lot of long runs with my dad and I just wanted to finish it and have this huge accomplishment, like of running a marathon. So it was just really getting to the finish line. Yeah. Some people it's like their life's goal. I'm going to.
I'm going to work forever to run a marathon. Did you do like a training plan? Did you read a book? No, we had no idea what we were doing. Awesome. Those are the best. Yeah, I mean, I didn't have a watch. I didn't even know how long my long runs were. We just kind of jumped into it. There was a couple points there were slugs on the road, and she would stop and pick up the slugs so they wouldn't get run over by cars, and I would wait for her. So it was really, I don't know, it was just an adventure. It was just something fun to do. And you had never run like a 5K or a 10K? No. That is pretty cool. And so you said you were doing training runs with your dad. Is he a big runner?
He is. He started running at 50. He did his first marathon at 50. And he just at 66 years old started doing ultras. So he did many on the Jenny this past year and got into trail running. So he's like my running hero. And he's the happiest runner out there. He's always just out there to have a good time and just to have fun. Wow. So he's got 16 years of running, right? That's pretty big. And then so were you going to his races or did he just run and not really race? Yeah, he was more of a runner than a racer. But he's gotten into racing. And we kind of...
I don't know, like we started training for after I did my first marathon wine class with my friend. Then we trained the second year for Rochester and we did that one together. And then we did it again the following year. And it kind of just took off from there. But he definitely got me into it. So your first marathon was like five hours, I think you said? Yeah, it was over five hours. All right. And then she was done. She crossed off her list.
And where did you go from there? You started running marathons and you have a new PR. It's not five hours anymore, right? Right. So I started, I ran again the following year, like didn't really run for a couple months. And then I did Rochester the following year and knocked an hour off my time. And I'm like, hmm, that's kind of getting closer to Boston. Maybe I can have a goal of trying to get a Boston qualifier. And then I ran it again the following year and I got my BQ by like seconds. Seconds. Seconds. I ran Boston and it kind of just snowballed, like just setting all these little goals along the way.
And then I started the, you know, the coveted quest for the sub three marathon and never really, I got close. I got a 304, but I was really unlucky with weather some years. And it's hard with a marathon because you train for months and then it's just kind of a crapshoot what I get to get that day. Right. Like, so do you chase after the fast and flat marathons like Presque Isle or Mohawk? That probably would have been smarter. No, I was shooting for Boston and then I just, it's.
That was silly because you train in the winter and then you get a warm day. So I was really hoping for it in 2012. And at the starting line, it's 80-something degrees. And I'm sweating before I even took my first step. So, yeah, just kind of unlucky. But still just enjoyed the ride. So you were trying for your sub three at Boston. At Boston. Yeah, probably not the best. Well, hey, you're going to be on stage, right? You might as well show off. Yeah, I guess. And so you run Rochester how many times? Three, four? Yeah, maybe four or five times. And you had at least one finish that was pretty good, one of them.
Right? Yeah. I mean, it was all of those times where I was shooting for close to three. So even if they were good, I wasn't happy with them. Yeah. What I was getting at was, wasn't there a race where you were the first woman to cross the finish line? Oh, so Delaware. Delaware. I went down with my friend. And it was more like his aunt had a cottage on the lake and I wanted to stay with him. So we went down together into Delaware and I ended up winning that one. Just ended up winning a marathon. Yeah, it was pretty cool. And then I did Mississauga after my daughter turned one. And that one, same thing.
Wait, you had a baby, and then a year later, you went out and won a marathon. Yeah, I think that was my proudest running moment because I had this new role of being a mom. Right. So that was a proud moment. So were you running during pregnancy? I ran until, yes. Until she came out? Yes, she was late, and I was doing hill repeats to try and get her out. So I probably looked pretty ridiculous out there. I don't think so at all. I'm thinking people are like, wow, that girl's doing some. So, okay, you went from, we didn't know what we were doing. At what point did you, so you knocked an hour off your time. Is that when you realized, I'm pretty good at this?
I think when I got my BQ. I felt pretty cool getting that Boston qualifier. So then I joined GBH, and then I started hooked up with a coach and started training really, really hard, doing those 100-mile weeks, doing training hard. So you were serious into this stuff. Serious. So you don't just win a marathon by running heel repeats when you're pregnant. There's other work that goes into it. Yeah, so I trained really hard for the sub-3s, but then when I had Ellie, I was training, but not as hard as I was, and I kind of saw that I didn't have to do those 100-mile weeks. I didn't have to beat myself up the way that I was.
Yeah, Phil Nesbitt does 20-mile weeks. I know. I know. I bust on him all the time. You're working five times as hard as you. I am, yep. Wow. So that's pretty cool, though, where you have, like, it seems like you have these markers where, you know, you saw sort of turning points, right? And you never got that three, but you got the 304. You got a couple marathon wins. You're a new mom, and you go out and win a marathon. That's pretty sweet. That was awesome. So then, like, marathon's not enough.
I think life happened. I had a lot of just hard life challenges, and I remember racing through it because I'm still addicted to running. And I remember racing, and this woman passed me with a mile to go, and I didn't care. And that's when I realized that I didn't really want to just race on the roads anymore. I wanted to do something different and push myself to do something that I hadn't done before. So that's when I got into ultras. Right. And what was your first ultra?
uh how you got well i did rim to rim to rim and that kind of got me hooked on that was just last year right that was 2014 or 15 yeah yeah phil phil threatened to talk about it and then he so you went out and did rim to rim to rim with phil and mitch and a couple other people yeah mitch fall um so we're gonna get like phil and mitch i think together To talk about Rindarindarum, because that's the only way it's going to happen. Mitch almost talked about it at the Medved panel. And then Phil said, oh, we'll talk about it. It's top secret. I mean, it's really top secret. We don't talk about it. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it. I know. It's like a thing that nobody did. No, no. Yeah. So that was your first real kind of long adventure. Yeah. That was my taste at it. Yeah. First little taste. All right. And I think you said before we talked that you don't like trails.
Yeah, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. I think it's fine. It's fine. I like running a long time, and roads kind of beat you up for 100 miles on the road. But it's not that I'm anti-nature or don't like the trails are there, but I'm scared of everything. I'm scared of snakes and frogs and bugs, and I don't like mud. So, yeah, trails are not really for me, and I don't know how to run them. I tiptoe down the downhills, and people fly down by me all the time.
prance over rocks and puddles. But you're still pretty good at it, right? I feel good at it. Right. I mean, I guess there's a difference. So do you even go off for like short little trail runs with friends or anything? No. All my training is on roads. So all your training is on roads. And then...
you go and race on the trails. Yeah. What's that like? It's terrible. It's bad. I have some wipeouts. It's probably not the smartest, but just my fear of running in the woods by myself scares me enough to keep me off the trails. But yeah, so racing, it's probably why I'm not very good at it is practice. Let's start small. I mean, you've run WTF a couple times, right? That was thanks to Phil, yeah. Yeah, and you won WTF, right? The 15 miler. Right. And that's snowy some years.
Yeah, the first year I was really lucky. It wasn't snowy at all. And then the second year was pretty snowy. Yeah, that was snowy and icy. And it's got two big giant hills and it's all rolly and it's roots and rocks and you've run it. Yeah. And you've won it. Yeah. So that's pretty good. Yeah. Did you have fun while you were doing it or did it feel like a struggle the whole time and you couldn't relax? No, I did have fun. I was running with friends. Yeah. I mean, the first year I ran it because Phil asked me to do it and I did it. But I was running with a friend, James, and I was still in race mode, so I was racing him.
which made it fun. And then this last year I was running with Greg Michaels until he fell and got hurt. But yeah, I always try and stay with people. I don't like being out there by myself. Just in case you fall, right? Right, or see a snake or a frog. Or a snake that looks like a snake. Right, exactly. So do you feel like, and I guess, do you feel like that is, every time you go into the race, that's your challenge? Like, I'm going to enter this trail race. I've trained on roads. I got this mom thing going on. I'm going to go jump into this course, which you've obviously never seen because you don't run on trails for fun. Is that a challenge?
No, the challenge is more the distance. I guess I kind of don't, yeah, I don't really, I never really thought about like that I train on roads and run on trails. But yeah, it's the distance. It's, you know, pushing myself to run as far as I can and get to the finish line. Are you one of those runners that doesn't understand how people in ultras can walk? Are you like a not walker? No, I walk. And that's one of the things that I love about training is that I can walk up the hills and eat a sandwich walking up there. Yeah, that's what's great. Try to eat a sandwich during a 304 marathon. Exactly. My marathon PR is a 341, and I could barely breathe during that. And I'm like, I don't even know the work that would go into it. I was aiming for a 330, and it was Rochester, thunderstorms, and heat. And it's like, I don't even know the work that would have to go into it.
me to get to a 330. And it's a lot less sandwiches on the trails, you know, like to train for the roads. And I might, I might go back and do it just because I do feel like it's a goal that's sort of within reach. But to me, that is that is hard. work like so even going from ultras you could go back to a marathon racing well yeah i think so i mean i i do i got into ultras because i liked the time on the trail it took i found when i was doing marathon training that after about two hours in that long run when you're doing that 18 to 20 miler after about two to two and a half hours that's when my shoulders started to relax that's when my brain like stopped thinking and i like jaw loosened up and i was like oh just running here you know getting into it at two hours so i started to realize oh okay but then again that's not you know maximum output but for me it was ah Yeah. So four hours and five hours started, you know, and when I did the first, I did the first half of the twisted branch, I was like, yeah, this is totally, this is totally it for me. You know, 50 K in seven hours. I'll do that all day long. You know, was it the distance or the trail? I think it's the time. It's the time in the woods, you know, and with friends and just eventually you run out of thoughts to think, you know, and, um, that's, that's why I started getting into ultras, but I don't think, I don't want to be one of those runners that, um,
I just keep doing ultras even though I don't have the fitness for it. My schedule has been so whacked that I could go out and do, with cutoff times at some of these races, I could go do 100K. But I would like to be, I enjoy running through the woods, not just walking through the woods eating sandwiches. That's a bonus, but that's not exclusively what I want to do. So yeah, I mean, I think I would eventually do it. But I guess for you, if you're always training on the roads, then you're staying fast.
and then you go out to ultras and you give yourself a try. You think you're still chasing after a 304? No, definitely not. And I don't really do speed work, or I kind of just run, and I run how I feel. And if I feel like doing a tempo run that day, then I do that. And if I don't, then I don't. So my training, yeah, I would not be a good one to coach. Do what I want to do. Well, how does Coach Re feel about that? Oh, yeah, we don't. We don't talk anymore? Yeah, no longer. I think I crossed the crazy line for him when I went over to ultras. Okay, yeah. And that's, I mean, especially, I guess, with the schedule. I mean, GBH has.
They work, right? They work. They work hard. So you crossed in, you did Cayuga, and you've done Many on the Jenny, right? I'm going to do that this year. Okay, you didn't do it last year. Right. But you've done Twisted Branch, right? And you were third place at Twisted Branch? I was, yeah.
Okay. Twisted Branch, there's about four to five miles of road in that race. Yes, and I was so thankful for that. You are the only person I've ever met that said, I'm so thankful for the road in Twisted Branch. Yeah, I was happy to see that road. Yeah, I was able to stretch out my legs. Same thing with Oil Creek. There's a road on Oil Creek going down to the aid stations. And same thing, I was able to stretch out my legs, move a little bit, like actually run. Over the bridge, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so, okay, Twisted Branch.
What got you to sign up for a very hard 100K, which is almost all woods, up and over really steep climbs, down steep pitches? There's some pretty steep downhills there. What was the motivation? What got you to that point? The ultimate goal was the 100, so Oil Creek 100. And I thought the timing of Twisted was good. It would be a good training run. And also being in the summer and I have the summers off, it made it easier for my schedule too.
And that was it? You're just like, yeah. Okay, why not? Wow, man. And to long for the four miles of road that are on the course. Were you able to enjoy it at all?
Yeah, I did. To run in third place, I mean, as much as you're maybe feeling like you're going slow, still to run in third place, you're running. Yeah, I was running. I definitely learned that I'm a social runner, especially in the trails. Like, I didn't like being by myself. So at the first aid station, I ran with my friend, but then he stopped using the bathroom, and it was still dark out, so I just couldn't find him again. And then we hit a road after the first aid station, and I found this other guy that I'd never met before, Joe.
And we were both doing Oil Creek. So I'm like, this is great. Like, he's going to be my new best friend. So we ran together for a bunch. But I kept running ahead of him. And then I would stop and wait for him. And at one point, I was stopped and waiting for a while for him. And then I eventually ran back to get him. And he saw me coming back. And he's like, what are you doing? I said, oh, I'm just coming back for you. Like, I was lonely.
So we get to the aid station, and he's like, I really like running with you, but you need to just go. You need to leave me. It's like a lost puppy trailing behind him. So, yeah, I left him. So I was alone for a little bit, and then I did have a pacer come in and run a couple legs with me. Yeah, you can get pretty stretched out on that trail. Yeah. As much as there's, you know, 100 people running and you've got all the pacers, and aid stations are only, you know, six to eight miles apart, it can get pretty stretched out there. Yeah, and I was afraid of getting lost and, you know, afraid of all the animals in the woods and all that, of course. But, yeah, so I think I have some work to do. I just have to kind of learn to.
Maybe run by myself and that it's okay and that it's safe. It might be. That might be a thing. Or you might enjoy running with people and you just have to get slower. Yeah, just find someone all the time. Either getting slower or faster. And so Oil Creek has more people on the course. Lots more. And you're doing loops and everything. Did you enjoy that a bit more because there were people and a little bit more roads? Yeah. So actually Joe from Twitzer Branch, we ran the first 100K together, actually. But then he dropped out.
He just dropped out. He just wasn't feeling it. And I kept going. But then I picked up my pacer. So I had my pacer. Thank goodness. So the secret to success is friends named Joe. Just friends. People. For me, anyway. Cool. Yeah. So I was at both of those races. I was working Twisted Branch. And one of the cool things about that is I get to go up and down the whole course. And I did Twisted Branch the first two years. But I really enjoyed this year being able to go from the front to the back and see just how everybody's doing and what the race actually looks like as far as the people up front.
working hard and looking exhausted and the people in back working hard and looking exhausted. And, you know, it was a really cool experience. And I was saying that the picture of your daughter at the finish line, I think I have a picture of that too, because I was taking pictures of people as they were finishing. So I was like, I think I was like, did I take that picture? Did you say, did you tell me that she beat me? So that I was like fourth girl or something? Yeah, exactly. Because she crossed the line first. She did. I know. Yeah. I'll take fourth over her. It's fine. Yeah. So does she come to a lot of your races and hang out?
She comes to the local one, so she did Twisted. She didn't come down to Oil Creek. But I think that's the thing I miss about the roads. I would just love for her to be at a finish line. I think that would be cool. Yeah, my wife brought the kids to my Rochester finish, and that was really neat. So they were right outside of the stadium. And I probably could have got 341.
20, but I spent a good minute with them. But it doesn't matter. No, it didn't matter at all. I could have just hung out there for a while, but then I was like, wait, I can't bend over anymore. I got to get up. These hamstrings aren't going to work in a second. So then I had to scoot over. But yeah, it's really cool to have them at races. I like that a lot. And then for them, it's motivation to get you to the line even more to be able to see them. Yeah, they were at their first Twisted Branch too, and they were wired all day. They did not go to sleep the whole time. Like they went to the aid stations? Yeah, my wife took them to every... She met at Bud Valley, and then she took them to all the aid stations and expected them to take a nap at some point, and they never did.
And then... I finally get to the finish line and my daughter's wide awake, wired, and my son's laying on a cot sleeping. So he was finally done. But that was cool. It was definitely, it's definitely motivation. And I don't know, I get that whole emotional thing when you're running. And at some point you just go, oh yeah, my family's here. I don't know where that comes from, but it's pretty great. Yeah, I know. Running is really raw. Like it brings out, it just heightens everything, heightens your emotions. Yeah. So did you used to run when you were little? Like just, do you remember running around and playing or recreation or chasing your dad at his races or anything? Or did you really get started when your friend said, let's go run a marathon? Yeah.
I mean, I did field hockey in high school, but I hated the running portion. So I really started, you know, just as a bucket list thing to do. So you got fresh legs. Yeah, I think so. Maybe that's what's working for me. That's pretty neat. But you do other things then. If running came so late in life, then you have other outdoor things or things that you do? Yeah, the winter I really traded my running shoes for skis. And now that my daughter's four, like she's a really good skier. So we can actually like go to different mountains and ski together, which is really cool. She's not spending all her time in ski school. Wow. Yeah.
cool it's fun yeah and you know there's that no fear when you're that young right right and she's i mean she's like two feet off the ground so if she falls it's not a big deal for her and she yeah she's really good that's neat so so that's that's your winter time is skiing lift tickets and hot cocos exactly those are our weekends yeah i mean i still get in a lot of running but yeah you know it's family first and and skiing's fun so so do you you just run though you don't you run by feel and what you feel like doing you're not training specifically per se right i'm not training at all and i probably should have a better like today i ran 18 miles, but not even on purpose, just because different people asked me to run at different times. So I ran 10 in the morning with some friends and 8 after work with other friends. The social thing, again, just not turning down a run. But I probably should be a little bit more, maybe you shouldn't do that. If it's working, I don't see why not. I mean, if it's working. I really got through First Twisted Branch by running and training with friends. There's no way that I would have been able to do that all myself. And running, as much as it is an individual sport and as much as it is you've got to get there on your own feet, there's still so much with friends and everything like that.
One, they can kick you in your butt when you're feeling a little lazy. But two, just logistically, you're going to do a point-to-point run or something like that. You're not going to do it yourself most of the time. There are people that will park a bike and run to their bike, and I've never been that person. Yeah, no, it's definitely more fun with friends. So adventures then. What about adventures? You mentioned Rim to Rim to Rim. Yeah, the top secret, yeah. Yeah, okay, never mind. No, it was really fun, and I wish I could go back. I would love to go back just because it was my first long, long run like that.
And I was so nervous about just being able to do it. And once you're down there, you're down there. There's no help. There's no turning around. So I was so focused on just being able to do it that I don't think I took in as much of the scenery and as much of the experience as I would if I were to do it again, knowing that I can do the distance. Yes, I would love to go back and do it again. What made you think that you could do it?
I had no idea I could do it. Because it's what, 54 miles? Yeah. So you had no idea. So you flew out there. You're going with Mitch and Phil, who are not exactly slow. So you're like, yeah, whatever. I got this. Yeah.
Well, I mean, I've run with Phil before and he's a very, I mean, he's not going to leave you. He's going to stick by you. I mean, he literally on that run gave me his shirt off his back. Yeah, he was looking for a reason to get that shirt off his back. It was like his favorite, you know, the Hunter Green Under Armour shirt. That's his shirt he gave me off his back. Yeah, but it was a cool experience. I would go back there in a second. Was it a family thing or just a bunch of friends went out? It was just a bunch of, I think there were six of us all together. It was just a bunch of us. Cool. Just doing this really cool adventure. And from there you got to 100 miles at Oil Creek. Yeah. In two years. Right.
So 100 miles, is it just that's the distance? That's just the motivator is that people run 100 miles and so why not give it a try? Exactly. And I think, you know, like once I was on, I had a lot of doubt and hesitation going into it. And I think I did kind of think about like, oh my gosh, I haven't even run on the trails. And now here I am doing 100 miles on the trails. So there's a lot of doubt going into it. But once I was on that starting line, I knew that I was going to finish. There was no...
I kind of had mentally prepared, like, okay, is the blister going to stop me? Or is, I know I'm going to go crazy with all the lack of sleep. Like, is the mental game, is that going to stop me? And I, like, there was nothing that was going to stop me. I was prepared for blisters. I was prepared for, you know, losing my mind a little bit at the nighttime. So, yeah, I knew that I was going to make it to that finish line no matter what. And I did have a little...
like probably 70 miles or so. There was an aid station and I just, I didn't have my coat with me. My headlamp was not providing any light at all. I could not see the ground with my headlamp. And I kind of just sat in a chair and put my head down. My teeth were chattering. I couldn't stop shaking. And I grabbed a veggie burger because I like veggie burgers, but I couldn't get it in my stomach. And my pacer, Holly, just handed me, she took my veggie burger, handed me some soup, didn't say a word. And eventually, you know, I got back up and did it. But I would say that sitting in that chair, shaking with my teeth chattering in the middle of the night, having run.
who knows how many hours and miles. I think that was probably the lowest, the lowest point. And I knew, but then I knew that once I had overcome that, I was good. I was going to be fine. I was going to make it to the finish line. So you had never gotten that far. Twisted Branch was your furthest before that. Yeah. And you're sitting there and are you, are you, are you going through like a checklist of things I can fix or are you just sitting there waiting for it to pass? I was kind of thinking like, how am I going to do it?
not well yeah how how like what do i need to do to get to the finish line and i thought like okay it's a mile uphill because all those eight stations are in the valleys it's a mile uphill i can just walk the uphill i'll generate body heat i'll get warmer um and that's what kind of got me out of the chair just kind of planning for the next just a mile just a mile just a mile get moving again yeah just move There you go. So that resolve is there in the middle of the night on trails. On trails. In the dark. So is the dark in the trails any different than the daytime in the trails, or are they both just trails? Yeah, no, it was pretty awful. Especially, I don't know why I couldn't see, but, well, I think because the headlamp had been working for, you know, 12 hours. And it's foggy out there, too. And so even if it's the beam of shooting, it still might not get all the way to the ground. Right, it was not getting to the ground. And that was tough. But I think, so it's that three loops that you do. The first loop was six hours. The second loop was eight hours. And my last loop was 12 hours. And it's all the same.
effing loop. So to double my time between the first and third loop, yeah, that hurt. And I think then that 7.7 mile loop to finish the going home loop. And that took me about three hours for seven miles. Yeah, that loop was... I heard that loop has an effect on people. Did you stop on the bridge? I pretty much walked, if you could even call it walking. It was more of a hobble. My feet had bubbled up on the bottoms. They were just hundreds of blisters, just bubbles on the bottom. So every step felt like walking on pins and needles.
It was painful. And I had this nasty blister in my heel that actually ended up getting really infected, and I had to go on antibiotics for it and everything. So it was a rough last, like, 10, 20-ish miles just dealing with all the physical pain of it all. Right. But the mental pain, you had that taken care of in the bag. Yeah, and I just kept telling myself, it's blisters. Like, it's blisters, and blisters are not going to stop me. They're not going to kill me. They're just blisters. But it was still, I mean, it's still painful. They're not going to kill you right away, apparently. Yeah, the infection may have. So first question, did you wear the buckle?
Did you put it on a buckle? Oh, do you wear it? What do you do with it? Why not? I don't know. It's your belt buckle. You wear it like it's a belt? Yeah. Oh. It's not a shelf buckle. It's a belt buckle. No, I didn't do anything with it. That'd be pretty sweet. Put it outside a pair of snow pants. Yes, we're skiing. Yeah, get a nice, it's a shiny buckle. I mean, yeah. Yeah. That would be a pretty cool look. Okay, now I will wear the buckle. That would be sweet. And, you know, Phil doesn't have a buckle.
Oh, no, he doesn't. No, no. And I still have my can 50 time on him. Nice. Yeah, hopefully he won't do that again. So then the next question is, what hundred miler are you signing up for this year? None. Done. One and done with the hundreds. But I will. I did like the course.
And it was very runnable. Like it was a runnable trail. There weren't a lot of rocks and roots compared to Twisted Branch. So I do want to go back for the 100K. I want to see what I can do with like actually running it. And you could probably finish that in the daytime. Yes. Yeah. Done by dinner is my new rule for races. I'm not done by dinner. I'm not signing up. Very good. So I ran about half of that loop out there. I went out with Davin one time and ran about half of it. I ran from...
I forget what it is, by the graveyard up to Petroleum Center and sort of around on that side. So we did like a little 15-mile. The graveyard is near where I had the lowest point. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So I loved it out there. I mean, it's a really nice trail. It is. It's a lot of fun. And I've been out there two years now supporting friends, and I absolutely love that bridge by Petroleum Center. So let's do it together. Let's do it. You can be my best friend on the road.
I won't leave you. I'll come back for you. Yeah, you'll have to keep coming back and getting me. Exactly. As long as you don't send me on my way, I'm good. I have a really big bright headlamp too, but we won't need it, right? No, because we'll be done by dinner. That's it. All right. I'm looking for something to do in the fall. So, you know, it is. I know. I know. I feel like you're trying to pin me into a corner, right? You're doing it. You're doing a pretty good film. You pretty much sound like you're going to do it. So I'll just see you there. Yeah. You know, it's weird to have gone there two years and stayed at the caboose one year, stayed at the hotel the other year. Actually, I've gone there three years.
Do you get a belt buckle for the 100K? I think so. Yeah. I think you do. You have two belt buckles. And you will have also a 100K. You know, if you win the 100 miler, you get invited back for life for free forever. I wasn't ever even close to winning that. That's because that was your first one. Yeah. Just saying, you know, free race for life. That's pretty sweet. And you can pick any distance. You don't have to just pick the 100 miler. You just have to win the 100 miler.
Still not enjoying it at all. But me and you, we're going to do that in a day. You're much more convincing. I think it would be fun. I really like the course. It's beautiful. And the race director, Tom Jennings, puts on a really great race, well-organized. The aid stations are so cool. Did you see the first one at all? Not the first. No, because that's on the side of the course that I had. Right. It's not where people can go. So I know the school. Right. And then I know Petroleum Center. But the other two, we can't.
I can't go to. It's amazing. So that is reason enough to do the 100K. This year they had set it up like the Wizard of Oz. Oh, yeah. And there were like lights everywhere leading up to it and like big lollipops in the road and the bridge that you cross is all lit up and everyone there is in character. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Don't you want to go? I have not heard. I think I can't believe that anybody that's run the race has never told me that. It was my favorite part. It was like five people that I know that were in that race and didn't mention a word. Are you sure? Maybe it was my imagination. It was the 100 miles suspecting me. Yeah. Was it there the whole time or just there on that last loop? Just that last loop. It was like Wizard of Oz. No, the whole time. It was awesome. Wow. All lit up.
big party. No, for real. I can't tell if you're putting me on or not. No, I'm really serious. It was a Wizard of Oz. I think Holly, my patient, might have taken pictures. Wow. So I can send you pictures. It really happened. This is so suspicious. It's just, it's odd that nobody has ever mentioned that. Maybe, did you get something in the mail that said you weren't supposed to talk about it? I mean. No, maybe they just didn't enjoy it as much as they did. I mean, there were like signs even leading up to the Wizard of Oz station about like, you know, Munchkin land and what you would see there. Don't be alarmed. Yeah, it was really, it was my favorite part, I think. I had, in my first.
twisted branch i had that low moment at there used to be an aid station called pub 54 and it was right at the end where the bristol hills branch ended at 54 mile 54 so you come off the trail and you hit the sort of gully and that's where it switches from orange markers to white markers yeah and um that's where i had that moment where i sat down And going leading up to there, they had put some signs about like, you know, Ireland or something. And my friend goes like, oh, we're going to Ireland. And I was like, dude, I don't even know what you're talking about right now or something like that, you know. And we get there and I just sit down and I put my head in my hands and they're like, would you like some Guinness? Would you like that? And they had lights and they had it set up like a pub. You know, it was very cool. And I was not in a place to appreciate it at all. And I was sitting there and I just I didn't know what was going on. And I had a shutter sort of start at my toes and run all the way up my body. And my whole body just was like rattle, rattle, rattle.
I was like, if I don't get up now, that's it. That's the one. So I just got up and started walking because I knew the door was closing quickly. But yeah, that low, low, low, low. And I never had a thought like, oh, I'm going to drop. It was just my body was like, are we still going to do this right now? Right. If so, you better get going. Yeah. So that was that was a pretty intense, intense moment. Like, you know, I don't know. Was it 30 seconds? Was it 30 minutes? I have no, no, no concept. Yeah. But it's funny. There was a. Oh, who was it? Oh, darn.
The woman who won Run Rabbit Run, and I just lost her name. I think it was it. Oh, boy. This would be the part that we edit out of the podcast right here. I forget her name because I know it. But she said that she laid down on the trail and went to sleep for one minute. And she said it was like the most restful one minute of her home. Let her pacer. Let her sleep for one minute. And she felt like she slept for 30 minutes. And she was up and she was awake and she was rejuvenated and ready to go. Wow. But she just, you know, laid down in the dirt for one minute. Wow. And up and gone. That's amazing. I don't know that.
That would work for me. I'd probably still be laying there. I was going to say, I don't know that you would think laying in the dirt was relaxing. No. No. No, I'd be too worried about, you know, snakes or something crawling on me when I sleep. Yeah, well, if you only sleep for a minute. Right. But maybe if you're that, you weren't that soul-searchingly tired, apparently, at Oil Creek. No, I didn't feel that tired. But as soon as we went back to that little caboose hotel, my husband got in the shower because he had run the last 7.7, or not run, he had moved the last 7.7 with me. And I laid on the bed and fell right to sleep. Like, within seconds, I was out.
Yeah. I was sorry, but I didn't feel it. And that's a sleep that you're not fighting. Right. You're not staying up, checking your phone. You're not like watching a little bit of TV. You're just lights out, right? Right. I know. I think it took me 29 hours to move 100 miles. And yeah, I was just out, done. That's still pretty good. I think it's pretty close to the cutoff. So what? Well, yeah. I mean, you're used to finishing first. So being near the cutoff is probably an issue. I mean, is that a part of it for you? Do you feel like you're...
not achieving because you're not winning no i was actually really happy with the 29 hours i was happy with whatever place i came in but what i didn't like was the last 7.7 i got passed by i mean it felt like hundreds of people i got i mean everyone i got passed by everyone because i was walking on those pins and needle feet and i just there was nothing i could do and i was just so envious of them for being able to still run at that level and that distance and yeah that kind of that hurt that caused a couple tears that caused a lot of tears just being passed i wasn't really used to being passed like that yeah that's not your game yeah no well if it makes you feel any better they probably weren't running at that pace they were flying they flew by me yeah like like monkeys out of the wicked witch's tower right it was real it really was there i'm sure if it was real to you no you ask those five friends about the well i mean yeah it's weird i don't But anyways, so that that idea of being passed at the end, that's usually when you're when you're putting it away. Right. And that's when you're sort of strongest is at the end. And even trying like, yeah, trying to. I mean, I feel like I'm putting it away. It might not really be. But yeah, like even Twisted Branch, I was not in there to race it. Like I was obviously I was running back for people so I wouldn't be lonely. But then my pay I had a pay serve for the last that last.
what is it, four or five miles? It's 15, 20 miles up Mount Washington. Yeah, from Urbana. Yeah, from Urbana. Yeah, that's probably 15 miles. I don't know. So I had a pacer for that stretch, and he had just gotten a phone call from my friend, and he was checking the times as I was coming, and he said, there's a runner right behind you. There's another female runner right behind you that's closing that gap. And that just...
That was my motivation. Even though I didn't race for 60 miles, all of a sudden, I was in race mode. Everybody's racing at the end of the race. That's the place you don't, like you said, you don't want to be passed. You work this hard to get up there. Even if it's for 31st place, you still don't want to be passed, you know? And that was, that was me at, uh, Sega Honda. The one year is, um, I probably my, that was my best race, but not like I was going to win or anything like that. But as I'm running, I'm like, you know what? I think I'm pretty high up there, you know? Like, and I was, uh, I got to the carriage road or the last 5k where, and, uh, a friend was there and Laura said, well, I think you're in 10th place. And I was like,
I'm like, I'm in 10th place. And she goes, well, it's either you or that person in front of you. So there you go. We're dropping eights at the end of the second marathon on that carriage road. And I finished 12th. The person in front of me was the 10th male. And there was one girl.
ahead of him but it turns the next sega honda i was i was crewing for some other friends and just talking and somebody was like man i remember this part last year there was some dude chasing me and i was like some dude was chasing you huh he's like yeah and i knew i was in 10th place and he was and i was like you so we had a nice talk about that i'm like i couldn't catch up a step he's like he's like i was i was dead he's like i had nothing left in the tank and but enough to fight you well what happened but he was so far ahead that there's um when you make this one turn and you climb up a driveway and when you climb up the driveway you make a 180 real quick and go to the finish line And he's like, I knew if I could just get up that driveway and you couldn't see me anymore and I could just make that turn. Yeah. So I found him though. I finally caught him. It took a year, but I caught him. I made an impression on him. He bettered his time too. Yeah, apparently. But yeah, nobody, I mean, we weren't, we weren't winning, you know what I mean? But nobody likes to get past at the end, you know?
At least if you're out there trying. But now if you got a bubble wrap for feet, that might be a little bit challenging. Yeah, that was tough. I mean, there was nothing I could do. I wanted to go faster. I wanted to be done. But there was no moving any faster. You got done. Yeah. I remember this one guy said to me at the end as he passed me, like, pain is 90% mental or something. I think he was trying to be positive. And I said, these blisters are 100% real. I am mentally strong, but these blisters are killing me. Right.
Yeah, and when you're in that spot, maybe it was true. Maybe if you could have just ignored the paint and run on them so they all popped and it was all over the place. I was trying. I really wanted them to pop. Yeah, I've popped. Anytime I get big ones, I'll just put the needle in them and deal with it later. Yeah, and I was wearing, I mean, I would have done a thousand things differently to go back there, but I was wearing those compression socks. And I knew that if I took those compression socks off in an aid station, I'd be done. There was no putting anything back on my feet. Plus, I didn't really want to see what they looked like because I was afraid if I saw them, I would have freaked out.
So what was it like getting those compression socks off at the end? So I needed a little help. Small team. Yep. And I think that's why they give you, you know, like safety pins to hold your biddle up to pop all those blisters at the end. It was painful. I mean, it took my feet weeks to just recover. I mean, they're still peeling and all at the sides and stuff. It was, I've never, I didn't know you could get so many blisters. And the thing is, if you do all your training on roads, you know, and just your feet aren't used to it, like your feet can't build up.
The calluses and the rough skin and the places that it's going to need it. But even that still, some people just get it. That's just what happens. And I had worn all the same gear for Twisted and I had no issues at all. It was about, what, 13 hours longer? Right. 30 something miles longer. Yeah. So where from here? What's going to happen now? You're going to run many on the Jenny in June? Yeah, I'm going to do many on the Jenny and not Twisted. Although it's a beautiful course. It's well done. The race director is awesome. So I don't want to knock it, but it just wasn't for me. Because it only has four miles of road in it.
Right. Well, it has like roots and rocks and I didn't do well on those. Weekly, Dam Ultra. Okay. And I'm doing that just with friends. You know, Wakely is like one way in and one way out, right? I'm a little nervous about that. And you have to like filter your own water too. Yeah, I mean, but it's only, it's not long, right? So you just got to get out of the dam, but you can't go up the sides. You can only like. So there's no road, you're saying? Straight ahead. There's no miles of road in there. Nope, straight ahead. Yeah, that's just, it's a group run. Like we're going to go camping the night before and stay overnight. So that's just an adventure. And then, you know, you and I are going to do a little frequent 100K and see the Wizard of Oz aid station. Oh my goodness.
That's so exciting. I think I got to run at least 30 hours to see the Wizard of Oz 8 station, right? No. I mean, it's set up. Well, no, because you hit it the first time and it's nighttime too. It's still dark when you hit it the first time. So you'll see it all lit up. I swear it's there. I swear. October. October. You know, there's another. There's a girl named Sheila who's looking for a race to run in the fall.
We could talk to her and see what she's doing, too. She probably won't do the 100K, but, you know. 50K. Oh, yeah, because it's a loop. Yeah. 50K loop, too. Yep. It's a beautiful loop. Bring your friends. Bring whoever you want. We'll see what Mrs. Egan is up to. We'll see. She probably won't do it. She doesn't cop to peer pressure like I do. Does she like the Wizard of Oz, though? I don't know.
I don't know. She'll ask people, was there Wizard of Oz? Unlike me, who I'll just fall for it. I wouldn't lie. I wouldn't make up a story about the Wizard of Oz. I'll send you pictures. I believe it. I truly believe you. I'm a bit flabbergasted, is all. All right, so you've got more ultras in your future. I do. What about road races? No? Yes? No? Yeah, I mean, Phil's trying to talk me into Rochester this year. And I do like the convenience, and I think the only reason I would do it is to see Ellie at the finish line. It's one that she could come to. But I just don't have the speed in me, and I don't have the motivation.
So, no? I don't know. We'll see. Well, if you do that, I don't know if that will make you faster or slower for Oil Creek, being like it's two weeks before. So if it slows you down, you should do it. Then we can run together. If it's going to make you faster and better trained, then you should do it so you could go race the 100K. I mean, yeah, it's not going to make you faster and better trained. Well, I mean, right, a 26-miler before 100K, you know.
It just depends on how close they are. Yeah. And then that would give me an excuse to run Rochester at a leisurely pace and stop and eat sandwiches. Because you train on roads. Right. And it's got a little tiny trail section now, I hear. Oh, does it? I hear. I don't know. I think it does. It's an interesting new course. Like Trolleybad Canal Trail? Somewhere in the park, in Turning Point Park, I guess, there's a little bit of trail-y area. It's not the Rochester Marathon that you've run. Right. Yeah, I knew that it changed and it went down like...
Yeah, yeah. So, I know, it'll be different for you. I'm sure Phil wants to see you back to your speedy days, right? Well, we'll see if he even does it, but yeah. He's passed no matter what he runs on. He said he's getting his mileage up to about 15 a week, so you know he's serious. He's serious then. Yeah, you know he's serious. I think he's going to, he said he wants to run Twisted Branch this year. He did. So maybe you could pace him the last 25. Yeah, I don't think I could keep up with him. He's trying to convince Mitch to do it. The last 25, you could keep up with him.
After he's tired. Yeah, if he runs. And he does. He goes out really fast at races. He does. He could be tired by then. And you could get some of the best parts of the course. You'd probably get another shirt from Phil. I know. But I'm telling you, I really don't run well on Roots and Rocks. Practice. Practice. I did. I had a training session with Mitch Ball. I really actually wanted to learn how to run downhill. So we went to Ellison Park, and he taught me how to teach me all his tricks on how to run downhill. And I just...
I couldn't do it. I thought his trick was reckless abandon. It is. Right. That's not me. Oh, yeah. He flies down. I'm like, he took me down this one section. I said, Mitch, I would never run down this. If I saw this, I would never, ever run down this. Is it like the coyote climb, the big steep brown one? It's the one. It had lots of roots. Like it was really steep down and it just had all these roots going down. And a bridge right at the bottom, like a little tiny walking bridge. Yeah.
And yeah, so he's like, just follow me. So he comes down and then I'm following him. And as soon as he turns around, he's like, no, no, not that. No. I was like on my hands and knees shuffling down on my butt. No problem. Yes, exactly. I've tried. I've tried. Yeah. But yeah. Does Ellie run at all? Yes. Yeah. So I love that she.
Like I did New Hampshire. We did the presidential traverse. And as soon as I came home from that, she said, Mommy, when I get big, I'm going to run out mountains. So I know it's just cool that she thinks that's normal. First of all, just run out mountains. And she's telling her teachers at school that her mommy's running 100 miles over the weekend. And yeah, just that that's her normal. But yeah, she'll ask me, she's like, Mommy, can we go out for a run? It's my long run day.
We'll go around the block. Awesome. Yeah, so she's up to a mile. That's cool. Yeah, it's really fun. Yeah, my daughter was really surprised to find out that Anna Frost was a real person. So we got this book for her, Fearless Frosty, and it's like a cartoon book about Anna Frost. And then after we read the book and everything, and I told her, I was like, do you want to watch a video of Anna Frost running? And she's like, what? She's real? And I showed her, she's like, whoa, it's true. You know, like, I could do it.
So yeah, she, she, and she loves running downhill. When we go camping in the Adirondack, she'll just run downhill. My son likes to just put his head down and climb. And my daughter likes to just run downhill. So together they would be like dream team. They could do like some sort of team, team, team twisted, you know, up to the top and weights and runs down. Yeah. There's not a lot of flat and twisted. It's cool that you did that. If you did that, I mean, there's so many more cool races that you could actually run. Okay.
No, I don't know the trail scene at all. Right. Yeah, there are trail races where, you know, it's all running instead of, like, instead of, you know, 3,000 feet up, then 3,000 feet down. Yeah, and I think actually Oil Creek has the same elevation, like, over the 100 miles as Twisted Branch does. In the 100, yeah. You mean there's got flat. Yeah, there is. Really? Yeah, there's water gap. Water gap's a 50K that's in Delaware. Okay. And it's super fast, super flat, and it's got some, you know, rolling stuff, but it's along the Delaware Gap. But then do you—
When do you walk? I mean, I like the walking part, too. Well, that one's for fasties like you. There's not a lot of walking in that one. Yeah, I don't know, then, because I do like to walk. Stretch it out and run. That may be a little tough. Yeah. All right, well, got anything else you wanted to chat about? No, this was fun. Yeah, there you go. That's how easy it is. Okay, well, not nervous anymore.
Courtney DeWalter. Her name is Courtney DeWalter. That's the runner I was trying to remember. Yeah, so don't at me, bro. Yeah, she ran the last 12 miles at Run Rabbit Run without vision. So that's like something. Yeah, you can check the show notes if you want to read her.
harrowing encounter. But anyways, yeah, 12 miles, and she still won the race. Bad mamma jamma right there. So now that I've saved a little face, I only had to do just a slight bit of research, Jen's description of her feet at Oil Creek honestly had me thinking about bubble wrap. Just walking on bubble wrap, you know, pop, pop, pop, pop. But I get the feeling that it was not nearly that pleasant. Still, 100 miles with over 10,000 feet of up and down, only training on roads. Imagine if she could get over the sticks and snakes thing. Like, she'd be a super fastie on those trails, too. Double threat, roads and trails.
We'll see if I end up wandering down the yellow brick road with her. I'm going to go. I don't know. We'll see. So be sure to check out the show notes again for some of the things that we talked about. They are at runninginsideoutpodcast.com slash 060. You can find an article on the aforementioned Courtney DeWalter, many on the Jenny, and the Weekly Dam, as well as information on our sponsor, Josh Stratton, LMT, and a way that you can get a shout out on the webpage on the podcast. How about that? You can also find links to...
the Rio Strava Run Group. We're up like 150 members on our Strava Run Group right now, which is pretty awesome. And the Patreon page. So thank you to all of this month's Patreon supporters, including the newest supporter, Mr. Jeff Darling. If you haven't checked out the Darling Tree Farm in Clifton Springs, you totally should. Super friendly, family-owned tree farm, and I think that atmosphere makes the trees just that much prettier. If you look forward to this podcast each week and it inspires, educates, or entertains you regularly, consider becoming a supporter. Check out the homepage or the show notes and click the Patreon banner. Please know that any amount of support is really appreciated. Thank you.
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