Episode #49 - Tyler Zarzeka

This is Justin, aka Demonic Sweaters, and this is the Demonic Sweaters Podcast, episode number 49. And today is August, Friday, actually, August 2nd, 2019, and 2.19pm. How about that? Looking at my clock here at the same time, I was saying that. Interesting. Anyway, I have a great guest today.

And he is a professional drummer, and his name is Tyler Zarzeka, and he plays with some pretty huge artists. He plays with Charlie Puth, Kiara, Noah Cyrus, who's Miley Cyrus' sister, if you didn't know, and Taylor Gray. So he's currently on tour with Taylor Gray. And he was gracious enough to come on the podcast and answer some of my questions. And that was really cool. So I'm going to go ahead and get to that here in a second. But first, I just wanted to mention, if you haven't already, check out anthillrecordings.bandcamp.com. And I have a sale going on there right now for Manasota, the 2016 180-gram vinyl LP that I released. If you purchase any Anthill Recordings digital release for $10 or more, you can get a copy of Manasota for free. So check that out if you want. And let's go ahead and get to this interview because we chatted for quite a...

you know about an hour or something and it was really good so i just want to get right to it so here we go so you're on tour right now right i am yeah i'm uh in jacksonville florida currently oh nice how's the weather down there rainy and gross yeah you know i've never i used to live in florida but i've never really spent any time in jacksonville I've only driven through it. I don't think I've driven through it either, yeah. I'm looking around at the skyline, and none of this looks familiar, but who knows, I'm sure I've been here before. Have you ever watched Ash vs. Evil Dead? I have not. Oh, yeah, okay. Well, there's a really funny scene in that having to do with Jacksonville, but if you've never seen it, then, okay. But are you familiar with Evil Dead and all that stuff? I am, yeah. Yeah, so it's the continuation of all the Evil Dead stuff, and he's like, you know, his idea of paradise is Jacksonville. He's like, one of these days, I'm going to get to Jacksonville, Florida. The only thing I know about here is it's the home of Limp Bizkit.

Oh, really? I didn't know. I knew he was from Florida. I didn't know, or they, is it he or they? Yeah, I think they even speak about it in their songs. Yeah, that's, I don't know if they love it or hate it. I think they hate it. Yeah, that's cool. Well, I think that, oh no, Tom Petty was from Gainesville. That's right. So yeah, I put together a couple of questions here. Some of them are probably pretty typical, and then I try to throw some oddball ones in there for you as well. I'll take it all. Okay, so I'm going to start with one of the oddball ones. So, which is, why do you play drums? Like, why? I'm sure a lot of people say how to get started and blah, blah, blah, but I want to know why. Great question.

I always loved music. I grew up singing in the car with my mom. I did choir up until, you know, puberty and my voice changed. But music was just like, it was always there. None of my family, like my parents, grandparents, nobody was a musician. My brother and sister, they didn't become musicians. But I think it was just the right time and age where I was graduating high school. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I just discovered, you know, true rock and roll and pop punk and metal. And it just like it.

It seemed just like a time and a place kind of thing. You know how they always say you meet your soulmate and it's the right timing? I think it was the right timing for a career to fall upon me mentally because traditional school just didn't seem to make sense to me. I struggled a lot in high school, and college just seemed like high school part two. Why would I want to put myself through that again? I had a terrible time in high school. I liked learning, but the concept of test-taking and stuff really just didn't get to me. When I saw my first concert, my first true concert, which was Blink, when I saw that, I saw this giant arena of people worshipping these three dudes who were having

a fun time on stage, I was like, that's a job? Like, you could do that? That's a thing? And, you know, I didn't necessarily want to be in a band, but I knew that I wanted to just play an instrument on stage. And at first, I thought it was guitar, because I loved him so long. I thought he was, you know, the funniest dude on the planet, and he was a terrible guitar player, so I was like, if he can do it, I can do it. But that lasted for maybe a week, and then I was like, I'm tapping on everything constantly, and I think that's drums. And, you know, this was me at 14, 15 years old, and it wasn't until 17 I got my first drum set. Wow, so you're kind of a late starter.

Dude, so late. It's unfortunate, but I used it to my advantage as much as possible, and I just, I knew I had to play catch-up to everyone that was around me. That was fantastic and just amazing at drums already. Well, you've done great. I mean, your drumming sounds awesome, man. It's like, I watched a lot of your clips before, you know, preparing for this interview and stuff, and like, your feel is excellent. Like, it's really, really good. It took many, many, many, many, many hundreds of hours. Yeah. Literally just playing the slowest, simplest beats as possible and trying to make it feel good. That's all my teacher's pride on me was just, you know, groove. Don't worry about fills. Don't worry about anything else. That's what it is.

I always tell my students that too. A lot of them, they try to get ahead of themselves. They want to play something crazy before they can play something easy. I'm always telling them, get this, play this for hours and hours and hours and hours. If you have to play four on the floor for 10 hours straight, do it. That's what you do. If you don't have a good feel and a good tempo, it's pretty worthless. That's cool, man.

So you were always kind of like going, you weren't really, like you said, you were like not really necessarily looking into a band, but you just sort of always wanted to be a, you know, like a musician. Like not necessarily like form a band. Because like when I started it, it was a little different, you know, because I was really young and it was just me and my friends and we started playing music together, you know, and that's kind of how I got started. So it was a little bit different and I always had this band. In the early days, this band approach. It wasn't until later where I was like, well, you know, maybe I can do my own thing and don't necessarily have to be a band, you know.

And don't get me wrong, I did do the band thing at first because that's all I had. I had friends around me that were musicians and... Joining a band was you know just playing with the people that were closest to me and thankfully they needed a drummer and so it was a band thing at first I just Somehow I knew it wasn't going to yield a successful career and I know you know You're not supposed to get in the music industry to make money, but I want to get the music industry to survive I wanted to make this a career and a business and even this is before YouTube and you know know the knowledge of my drumming or like the history of drumming was very unaware to me and but I knew there was such a thing as a session drummer and a session where people get hired to play for people and I was like that's that's exactly what I want to do you know because Being in a band, I'm just going to be in debt my whole life. And it's going to ruin my friendships, which inevitably it did with a few people. So yeah, I had to quit that band dream real quick. So how did you make that transition to get into being a session drummer? And what were your first steps to start making the contacts and getting all those networks in place to get you started in a career?

Well, the first biggest step was just deciding to go to a music school. And I went to Musicians Institute in Los Angeles. And that was half in part my dad and half in part me. My dad was the one that wanted me to go to a traditional college. And when we decided that that wasn't going to happen, he still was like, you have to go to some sort of school. You're not a good drummer. And I was well aware of this. All I could do was hit hard and play double kick. And that was it. And I knew that I was bad, but I wanted to be better. And that seemed great. And it was the first time where I was like, I'm going to move out on my own.

I was 19 years old. Let's go to a big city and figure this out. And the school was really the kick in my ass to become a session musician because that's what that school takes pride in. It's just it teaches you how to play a bunch of different genres, how to get gigs, how to audition, and how to hold yourself as an independent contractor. And you got a lot of connections, I assume, through just being in school too, right? Sort of. Or they led to connections. One person leads to another, that type of thing. Yeah, suddenly it did. I kind of regret my first...

year and a half i i was still so shy you know part of me was still in like my high school phase and um i wasn't i didn't drink alcohol i didn't i didn't do anything like drug related well that's probably for the best everyone usually before the 21 times to drink but i was i was still kind of like in this you know bubble and i was adamant to learn and focus and i thought if i were to make friends that it would slow me down so i had like people i would say hi to in the hallways but they were all drummers too and you know making connections with drummers will lead you to you know a sub gig but not necessarily a true gig and in hindsight i probably should have made friends with all the guitar players and singers and bass players yeah But towards my last level three was when I was like, shit, I need to make friends. No one knows who I am. I'm this skinny kid that wears white t-shirts every day. And I talked to no one. I was sitting in my lab my entire time just practicing and practicing and practicing. So I finally made some friends, which ended up a few connections that kind of changed my life in a weird way that kind of wasn't expected, actually. How so? I mean, if you want to go in that direction. Of course. It was my buddy Mike May. He was a drummer there as well. And he worked at a music production backline company called Center Staging.

and whoever's listening doesn't know what Backline or Backline company is or what Center Staging is. It's basically just a giant rehearsal facility that provides gear for local TV shows, bands that are on tour, stuff like that. And he ended up wanting to leave his position and wanted me to take a spot. And at that time, I was working at Best Buy and nothing was going my way and I couldn't really get the gigs that I wanted. And I was like, sure, I'll give it a chance. I know nothing about drums besides playing them. When I graduated school, they didn't really teach you maintenance, tuning.

anything of that sort they do now they've added that curriculum after the past 10 years but when I graduated it was like I know nothing about tuning and they kind of taught me that I ended up getting that job and that opened my eyes to a completely different half in the music industry that I had no idea existed I thought it was all just performance you know and obviously there is such a thing and people have careers based around music production and touring as crew and text yeah I have a friend that's a drum tech and they've been doing it for years and years and years It's a fun position and and you know for those who know me like that's I did that for a good six years when I really couldn't find the drum work I was looking for I turned to teching because that paid so well and I still have to travel I still have to work around musicians and it still made me happy But it didn't make me as happy as playing live. Yeah Yeah, well, when you play live, you get obviously the rush from the crowd and all that, which you don't really get if you're just setting them up. Yeah, you're there and people are cheering, but you know they're not cheering. Yeah, exactly. So, okay, so I assume then having that job, you probably met all kinds of people with that job.

I did, but again, as crazy as it is, that built up my crew status. I had two resumes. I have one being a drum tech and a full band backline tech for guitars and keyboards and everything. And then I have a separate resume that's based purely around being a drummer. Those paths did not cross. Meeting those musicians, everyone saw you as a tech. Sure, he keeps time at soundcheck or linecheck, but no one knew that that's what I really wanted to do. They thought I was living my dream as a drum tech.

As many people that I did meet, nothing really helped me get any drum gigs. What ended up happening was I would then see these people on tour and they're like, weren't you a drum tech? And now you're drumming. And I'm like, yeah, that's, this was the goal all along. I just kind of, I lost my way for a few years, but I think I'm finally back. So how did you, what I'm still, you know, like, I'm going to keep trying to get some answers out of you. How did you like, you know, how did, how did you start getting those gigs? Like, how did you, what was your first way to like, you know, were you like just approaching people or, you know, going to jam sessions or parties or how was that? How would you find these connections?

I was actually really content and happy with being a drum tech. I was only 20, probably I was 28, 29 at the time, and I couldn't think anything negative about it. I was making fantastic rates, weekly rates, salary on these gigs, working for huge artists, and I knew that I would never make that as a drummer. And to this day, I still make more money being a tech than being a drummer. But it was a really good friend of mine, Max Bernstein, who pulled me aside one day and was like, You got to stop being a tech. Me and him met in an audition probably almost 10 years prior to that. And we kept in touch, and he became very successful as a guitar player. And I kind of went the opposite direction. But he had a gig with a female pop country artist named Tiffany Houghton who needed a drummer. But the only way he was going to give me that gig is if I quit being a tech. Oh, wow. So he pulled you out of it, basically. He really did. He called me out. If you think about it, he's like, you're getting older. You're still in your 20s, but 30s close to approaching. And I'm throwing you a bone. Do you want it? And I was so comfortable that I took a big pay cut.

And I was like, that's fine. Let's try it. Let's see what this feels like. And it was a super small tour. We were opening for this band, MKTO, and playing theaters and House of Blues gigs. But I loved it. I was like, this is what I was missing. It was eye-opening again. I was just like, that's what it was. I wasn't depressed or upset by any means, but I wasn't fulfilling that part of my heart and soul that I really, really wanted. So thankfully for him doing that, I'm back to being a drummer. And that led to another gig and more auditions and more auditions. And I still kind of had a name. People knew that I was a drummer at first. And I'd done some tours prior to being a drum tech.

It was really just that one gig that led to everything else. And, you know, just doing a good job on each gig will yield more gigs. That's awesome. What do you think about, I'm kind of skipping around my list here, but that made me think of something like, you know, what do you think about, like, there's like kind of this genre of drummers now that are basically, you know, they're like YouTube drummers. Like they, like one that comes to mind, amazing drummer is like Annika Niles. You know, she really doesn't, as far as I know, she's not really touring with any bands. I could be wrong there or artists, but she's kind of just a career YouTube drummer.

Am I correct in assuming and thinking that? Do you know who I'm talking about? Of course, yeah, I know. I think her playing is fantastic. It's amazing, yeah. I don't know if she would consider herself that. I feel like she's more of a clinician session drummer now. She may have started there, but I know she took lessons at, I'm drawing the blank on the school, but it's a prestigious school out of Germany. And I know she does clinics all the time, but I have not seen her on tour either. But then again, that's not really some people's thing. Yeah, but I just think it's interesting that now that's also an option.

YouTube and clinics, you know, where you don't even really have to play in bands. Well, yeah. And it could lead to a gig, too. I mean, people always ask me that. Lots of up-and-coming drummers are like, should I start a YouTube page? Should I do covers? Do you think that'll help me get gigs? And I was just like, well, the chances are there. It has happened. Matt McGuire, he was a YouTube drummer, and he made a cover of a Chainsmokers video. Chainsmokers saw it, flew him to America, and he's now music director and one-third of the band of Chainsmokers. And he only got that because he made that YouTube video. Interesting. And he was already a fantastic drummer, and millions and millions of views for this kid. Just insane, the way he plays.

Um, it, it can happen. It definitely doesn't happen for me. You know, I have very like a small footprint on YouTube. I tend to post just certain things on certain tours, usually GoPro footage and stuff like that. I don't have a professional like hardcore studio at home, like with all the microphones and the expensive cameras. I leave that to, to the YouTube drummers. Um, but mine's kind of usually just a throw and go version of that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess like there's just so many different ways now, you know, there's like, there's no, I mean, I guess there was always, it was always like that where there's not just one particular path, but it's interesting how.

one person can do it one way, another person can do it a different way. And just, there's all these different routes, but at the same time, it's not easy. You know, like even though there's a lot of different routes to become, you know, successful in playing music, it's still going to be really, really hard. Yeah. I mean, you have to like, and you know, that's like another thing too. I mean, how do you, how do you stay, you know, how do you keep a positive mindset? You know, when you're, when you're, I mean, now you're, you're doing really well, but I'm sure there were times where you're struggling and you didn't know how you were going to pay your, you know, electric bill or whatever, you know, how did you, how do you get past that, that kind of, those kinds of things?

There's just a certain level of positive mental awareness that I think you kind of have to force upon yourself. I've had those struggles before, and not to say that I don't still encounter a few of those, because I'm never nearly as busy as I would like to be. I am with these fantastic artists, but those last 30 days, and then they're gone. And then it's my hands up in the air like, what's next? And it can be frustrating. I kind of use my downtime just to obviously become a better drummer, and I'm always learning and taking lessons and just practicing my ass off.

I think it's just, if it's right, if this is the right career for you, you just have to know that the universe is out there looking for you, looking out for you, I should say. But it can be frustrating. I've had a slow, I'd say a good slow six months. Most of my artists that I'm mainly working for are not really doing much. And it's obviously not up to me if I want them to tour. It has to be on their call. So it's more just a waiting game. Can I survive this long and wait for that next great big tour to come along?

do I give up not knowing that in one week I'll get a call for this huge gig? And had I taken something else or a full-time job in LA, I couldn't have said yes to those kinds of jobs. I know that exact, I mean, I've had that exact experience where I have taken the job and then like a week later gotten the call. Yeah, it's happened to me. Like that's what, I mean, now it's like I'm past that point and I'm, you know, I just do other things, you know, but like, um, you know, I took a job one time and it was literally like, well, this happened twice within a couple of years. One job I took one and it was like a month after I started it. Um, I got a call from

Frankie Rose and was asked to go on tour. It was like, you know, I'd just taken the job. So it's like, and I turned it down at the time, you know, cause I'm kind of, you know, I don't honestly, you know, just about me is I'm not really. into a lot of pop music you know so like i didn't even know who she was when she emailed me and like i was like uh you know i don't think so you know and i just passed and then like and then like so and then another one was uh a couple of like i was doing this uh it was a pretty decent job you know but and i was pretty passionate about it at the time and it was for the transcendental meditation uh center in new york and i just got in the job and i was working there and about i don't know not even a week after that started it was like to do this netflix it was like a series on netflix like and play a drummer in this thing and i was like they wanted me to be you know they wanted me to be there like basically to go in and just be available whenever they wanted me you know which i just couldn't do you know there's just no way to do it so i was like of course that would happen now but i never had the kind of work that you had though so it was kind of like where like i just had to like you know those things for me were so seldom

The only reason why I got that was because of a good friend here in New York. He was moving, and he was a pro drummer here, and he had a lot of gigs and stuff like that. And then he hooked me up with that, but I was like, I just couldn't take it. But yeah. So I know that feeling. I definitely know that feeling. I think the struggle becomes lesser and lesser as long as we get older. It just seems far and between now, but the more you do good work on each tour, you're just going to get calls for more tours. It's inevitable. That's what you want to do. Do you like touring? Well, you must like touring. I love it. The traveling bug is not out of me. I love tour buses. Airplanes are great. I'm a fan of airports. There's really nothing wrong with traveling, in my opinion, yet. I know there's a time where I will be burnt out. I don't know when that will happen, but we'll wait to see.

Yeah, I mean, it's really, when I was, you know, a kid, and I toured when I was 16, and I had a great, I mean, I was just a kid, you know, and I loved it. I was, like, in heaven. You know, every day you're somewhere new, and it's great for the person who gets bored easily, you know, because, like, it's always different. Yeah, that's true. You know, one thing, it can be a little tough, you know, but I think for you, or, you know, I could be wrong, but when you're in more of a professional situation like you're doing, it's not like you're in, because, like, I was always in a band, you know, and, like, the band relationships can get a little bit stressful, you know, because everybody has, like, their own.

inputs and it's not like it's a little different when you're just hired you know and you're part it's almost like you're part of a team rather than you're this I don't know, there's not this struggle for creativity going on as much. So I think that probably relieves a lot of the pressure when you have those two different types of situations. Everyone on tour seems to know their place. And we all kind of understand that we're employees for a greater cause, that being the singer of the project that you're doing. And everyone's usually respectful of that. We know our place. And if we show up and do a good job and we're on time and we enjoy what we do, we'll get that paycheck at the end of the week. But I understand that if I want to take a drum solo tonight, I can't.

That's not going to happen. If I did, I'm probably going to get yelled at or looked at and sent home. That's not inevitable. It's a printed out show and it has to be precise. It's just my job to make it feel good. That's really it. I'm totally fine with sucking in the creativity side of being a drummer and save that for being at home and practicing. Hearing you play, your creativity comes across.

Even if you're just playing in the pocket, there's still some tasteful stuff going on in there, and it really comes across. That's good to hear. I'm glad that translates a little bit. Yeah, absolutely does. I mean, that's an art form in itself, you know, like being able to play in the pocket and, you know, to the song, but be able to still put a personality across. That's definitely an art form, in my opinion. I mean, look at Ringo. He was like, everybody says, you know, you can just listen to how perfect his stuff worked in those songs, you know, and like how every fill, every fill is almost like a, it's like a hook in its own, you know, and it's really, really, really great stuff, you know.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about, too, is I was checking out your drums, cue drums, and these look really nice. I've never really, I don't know anything about them, but they remind me of, you know, like the lugs and the badge kind of remind me of like old Radio Kings or something. Can you tell me something about them? Yeah, Q is a company owned by a guy named Jeremy, and he used to be a builder at Orange County Drums and Percussion. Oh, okay. And I'm not too familiar with the story, but what I believe happened was when Guitar Center bought the rights to Orange County, there was this leftover warehouse of machinery and tools. And it was...

It was Jeremy who decided to make another company that invoked the vision of Orange County, but also specializing in metal drums, which was super intriguing. When I first heard about them years ago, I was like, a metal drum set? That can't sound good. There's no way. The ones that you play are metal? The metal shells? The ones I play currently, my kit is a mahogany kit, but my snare is metal. I've toured with a galvanized steel kit when I did Charlie Puth, and my next kit that I'm going to be buying is going to be a metal kit as well.

But the thing about their kits is they still put a wood re-ring where the head touches the shell. So it's like true contact metal to drum head. It's still like a wood-bearing edge meets the drum head. So they're very warm, very loud, and just beefy drums. They love vintage Gresh. They love vintage Ludwig. They try to invoke that in their inlays, on their bass drum hoops, and with using the lugs that they use. They're really smart. They make gorgeous drums, and the drums sound fantastic.

And I've been with him for a few years. Yeah, they look beautiful. I mean, they look really nice. And Jeremy's a genius. He's currently on the road with Muse, drum teching for Dominic. And Dominic now has a Q kit, I believe, as well, which is a beautiful, beautiful kit. Nice. I know Tama, they released a steel kit recently, too.

It's coming back, yeah. I feel like DW just did a wrapped version of a stainless steel. I'm not sure if it was a wrap or if it was a real steel kit. But it's a thing again, yeah. The Atomic kit looked cool. I did see that. It looks like a giant Black Beauty. Yeah, yeah, totally. And they're not even that expensive either. They're fairly affordable. Yeah, Q is the same way. The metal kits are fairly priced. My mahogany kit was actually more expensive because they had to source out the wood from another company. Yeah, I guess, yeah. I mean, it probably wood is going to be more, especially if you're getting into, like, some of the woods can be pretty expensive and rare and, you know, whatever, where steel is just made, you know.

Yeah, and I just decided with the mahogany kit to fit the artist that I'm usually with. I thought a metal kit might have been too aggressive or something like that. And I wanted something kind of like dark wrapped, so that navy blue really was perfect for me. Do you really think, I mean, I've been playing drums a long time, and I've had a lot of sets. Do you really think wood, like the type of wood, really makes that big a difference?

I do, 100%. You do? And the funniest thing is I was doing a tour two years ago with Kiara, and I was playing my mahogany kit, super stoked, changing heads all the time, trying new heads out, experimenting with sounds and whatnot. And then we went to do Coachella, and it was a fly-in gig, so we couldn't use my gear, so we rented a Q kit. Same size, same everything, but this was a maple kit versus my mahogany. And when I played that kit, it was like...

it might as well have been just two different species of wood. It was so insanely different. I hit up Jeremy. I was like, I should have got maple. Like maple was the one I was really looking for. And when I got mahogany, I was like, I love mahogany because it's like this dark looking wood. It probably has warmer tones, which it does. But I didn't realize that maple was like that tuning range that I really, really preferred. And I was just going away. I was like, wow, I really, that's the first time I've heard the actual difference. You know, drum kits themselves can sound different, but like the same company using the same wood source, but just two different types of woods. And you know, it's the same edges and everything too.

But the thickness and all that can have something to do with it. Heads, too, and everything. That's why I'm always a little... Yeah, I think... Okay, I'm going to trust you. I've always been a little skeptical just because I've had so many different drums and I've had two different drum sets that were maple where they sounded totally different by two different manufacturers. Some poplar sets sound amazing. Some of them don't. I don't know. Tuning is a big thing for me. I'm such a big believer in tuning drums and making them sound the best they can. I've had somebody bring in a Walmart kit. Those little $150 sets that are normal size, 20-inch bass drums.

10 is rack tom, 12 is 4 tom. And I made that sound fantastic. And it's really just, like, the knowledge of tuning, you know, how you range your bottom head to your top head and all that stuff. So I think any kit can be whatever you want it to be. So, you know, people who don't have the nicest gear out there shouldn't be worried that their kit is, you know, under $1,000. It can still be what you want it to be. Oh, totally. It can sound good, too. I've heard great players play crappy drum sets and just been like, wow, that sounds better than a $10,000 DW, you know? Oh, yeah. And, like, some people, just the way they hit creates the sound. Like, there was a...

I saw an interview with the tech for Alex Van Halen, you know, and he has that really signature snare sound. And he was like, he was like, one of the biggest questions I always get is how to get the Alex Van Halen snare sound. He's like, well, to get the Alex Van Halen snare sound, you're Alex Van Halen. That's how you get it. Like it's how he plays and hits. That's what makes it, you know. I think it's his stick too. Have you ever held Alex Van Halen's drumstick? No.

I think it's 17 to 18 inches long. Oh, wow. That's crazy. It is long, and it's impossible to play. The thing I used was bent. It was so warped and bent because they're just so long. The wood naturally is going to go that way. It was uncomfortable. I have one still. That's like a joke. It's just like a golf club. Just try playing with a golf club. What kind of tips are on them? Are they rock knockers or something, or do they have tips? This was years ago. They seemed like normal tips. The length was just insane. I'm not sure if he chokes up.

to make it even, but, like, there was no fulcrum point on that stick. It was pure just length. And he plays that huge ride, too. It's, like, a 24-inch ride or something. Yeah. But that's pretty common these days, though, gigantic rides. They're coming back, yeah. I know Anika with Minol tends to use, like, what is it, a 28? Yeah. It's super dry, so it fits the sound and what she's going for. To me, I don't have anywhere to put anything like that. Like, for me, I can't play anything bigger than a 20 because I need that space, you know?

I don't know how you could walk that through the airport. You'd have to have its own case. Oh, absolutely. Or that symbol alone. I can't imagine. I mean, 26 is huge. That's huge. Yeah. So, like, do you have any crazy tour stories? Like, destroyed hotel rooms, anything like that? The stories I have, I'm not at liberty to say. And the thing about touring now is it's not 1985 anymore. Yeah, I know, I know. I just watched that Motley Crue mockumentary on Netflix.

I believe some of that stuff was true. I've heard some of that stuff was true. And if anybody were to do 1% of those things on tour, you would have a flight with your name on it that night. There's no room for shenanigans anymore. You have to be so respectful. If I trashed my room, I'd have to pay for it. And no one would ever want to work with me again. That would ruin my name. So everyone, at least in the last 15 years that I've been doing this, has just been very kosher. People can drink too much sometimes, but as long as the show happens, they're fine. And as long as they don't.

ruin the tour bus. Throw a TV out into the swimming pool. That sounds fantastic and fun, and it would have been amazing to be a part of that in those decades. But now it's a business. We all show up on time, and we all dress the same, and we have a smile on our face, and then we get to do it again the next night. I mean, it's crazy. It was just chaos in those days. It seemed like people were just nuts. They were way more crazy. I think it was the prime of music on the road, for sure.

But not all of that ended well. I mean, look at Randy Rhodes, you know, because that was a tour. They were being crazy, and then he died, you know, just from screwing around, basically. From looking at Mick Jagger, I mean. Yeah, it's a miracle they're still around. And they did all that, too, and they're still kicking it. Yeah, Keith Richards, I have no idea how he's still walking.

that's gonna be a sad day if he ever dies if yeah he's the only person you'd say if because nobody nobody knows at this point like he could just be like undead you know but yeah there's a there's a great video on on youtube of him and hunter s thompson like messing around like like for the first probably 10 minutes of it they're talking and like there's nothing that actually gets said or nothing comprehensible like you're just you're like you're like what are these guys like i think keith or hunter one of them has a megaphone and he's yelling at the other one and they're talking about some contract or something but nobody knows what they're talking about it's like the whole thing is just a big insane like drug uh i don't know it's just it's just really funny it's definitely worth checking out oh good old history yeah yeah yeah when i was like i think what we did you know when i was because like i said when i was really young we were touring and we were i was in like hardcore bands and we were all like pretty much straight edge at that point but We did some kind of crazy stuff, but nothing like that. But I remember we had a hacky sack and we used to play hacky sack pretty much everywhere we went. And like sometimes it would be, we would try to see like what kind of weird place we could start playing hacky sack. And like one of them was like in a McDonald's at like three in the morning and a truck stop, you know, and like, and then another one was in the Capitol. It was like the Capitol building of Madison, Wisconsin, like right in the center of the Capitol building. And there's like politicians.

business people walking by they're all staring at us all weird and like another one was at like the rehearsal for the st louis symphony orchestra like we were playing hacky sack in their like rehearsal space and like i don't even know how we ended up there like but yeah so that was pretty much what we did but it was it was funny to us at the time yeah that phase i remember like you know stealing um the takeout trays from in and out and going tray surfing behind your car like that was that was the thing to do in sacramento back in the day is you tie a rope to your tailgate that sounds pretty dangerous actually it was but we were 16 who cared you know it was you know we had our whole lives ahead of us nobody was thinking about the present But yeah, no, it's, as far as nowadays, yeah, everyone's, everyone's chill. Everyone's very pro. At the same time, it's kind of boring though. No, it's the days off that, that can get, uh, that can get fun. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Show up to bus call. You can do whatever you want on your day off. Yeah. So what do you, what do you listen to these days? What, what's, uh, what are you into? It's, that's a tough one. Um, I really try to, to follow what is mainstream and popular, especially in pop. Uh, but.

I don't know if I like most of it. The thing that I tend to always go back to is movie scores, symphony, composers, anything that has no singer in it and no drums in it. It's kind of like a relief from the pop world. I've been listening to a lot of Hans Zimmer. Oh yeah, Hans is great. And I love movies just as much as I love music and they go hand in hand so well.

That kind of music excites me just as much as like Meshuggah does. But I do listen to a lot of stuff. I just started getting into the country world as far as playing and listening. I've been nonstop listening to this band called Dan and Shay, which is this pop country duo. And they used the session drummer named Nir Z out of Nashville. And his drumming on this record is perfect. I cannot get enough of it. I literally show people these fills. I'm like, you have to listen to this fill. Just real quick.

And it's not the craziest things you've ever heard of, but the way he orchestrates and how it translates in the song and his phrasings just blows my mind. It's everything that like, if I had the ability to do that, that's what I would have played. It's almost like I know where his brain is at. And that's like, you know, I strive so much to be somebody like him one day. So definitely listen to a lot of that. And just, you know, I finally added country radio station to my dial in my car. And because it's nice, you know, when you listen to the normal radio stations, like traditional pop, it's the same songs all the time. And I know it's the same for country, but since I've never listened to country, all those songs are new.

I hear a Keith Urban song, I'm like, oh, that's that. Download that whole album, figure out who the drummer was, and just start absorbing that stuff. So get into a lot of that. And then today is a great day because Tool just released all their downloads available online for all their albums, which they hadn't done before. They always strayed away from digital media, and today was the first day they caved. So I finally have them all in my iTunes for the first time, which is kind of cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I do listen to a lot of stuff. I try to always just keep a broad mind when it comes to music. And I really showed me that back in the day.

Yeah, I listen to a lot of drumless music as well, actually. I'm a huge ambient fan. Steve Roach is probably one of my favorites, if not my favorite ambient musician. And Robert Rich is another one that I like a lot. And they do this thing. Actually, I think it's in LA as well as New York. I'm in New York, but I think you're based out of LA, right? There's this thing called Ambient Church. And this organization, you can become a member. It's very cheap to become a member. It's like a monthly thing, I think. And I think it's like pay whatever you want. Or if it's not that, it's very cheap. But anyway, what they do is they get these really big, you know, like,

kind of legendary ambient performances and set them up in these either old abandoned churches or current churches that will allow it like big cathedral type places you know and it's really cool like i saw i got to see robert rich in this gigantic church in brooklyn and it was like just i don't know i've never experienced anything like that because the sound just you know in these big churches just lends itself so well to this type of music you know having like the light show and all that stuff it was really cool like really really cool and everybody's laying down and like you know just kind of immersing into the music it was really neat yeah and i know they're doing steve roach is doing one Out there and here, I think it's two shows, one in L.A., one in New York, and that's coming, I think, in the beginning of next year or the end of this year or something like that. So, yeah, it's pretty cool. And film score as well. I definitely love a lot of...

And I love Angelo Baddellamente, who worked with, like, in a lot of the David Lynch stuff. His music, I've always loved his music. Like, it's just really, really atmospheric and just really good. And Hans Zimmer, too, is another one who's amazing. And, yeah, like, The Last Blade Runner. Oh, fantastic. That was, oh, man, it was so, the sound, not even just the score, it was also the whole sound design of that film. The low end, yeah. I don't know if you saw that in theaters. I did. It blew me away. Yeah, same. I know some people fell asleep because they said it was too long and boring, but I was just, like, I was enthralled with just the audio. So was I.

I have to see movies in theaters. That's what it's made for. If I had a home theater at home, I would never leave. But, like, I don't have that kind of sound system that I can call. So, yeah, I have to see those in theaters. Yeah, I hate it when you get to the theater and it starts and it's, like, not loud. And you're like, oh, man, what is going on? You know, like. I want to find these special. I have my two theaters that I know are really good. And we have Arc Lights in Hollywood, which they take pride in actually having somebody there to make sure at the start of the film that everything is perfect, it's loud enough, and that it's in focus. Yeah. It's the easiest thing. I love that theater so much. I think, though, sometimes they give, like.

higher grossing movies they'll give louder I swear this happens like in like big movie theaters where like if you go see a smaller movie sometimes it doesn't sound like the sound is pumped up quite as loud as you know something like a Marvel flick or something like that Yeah, I don't know. Could be a conspiracy theory. But yeah, no, the Blade Runner film, like there was like, they had these sounds too. There was one that sounded like, you know, like when a motorcycle like revs up really fast and takes off. Like they had this sound that was something like that. And it sounded like it was like in the background with all this reverb on it and like just crazy sounds going on in the background. You know, like I'd never really experienced a film that had that kind of like sound design to it. I thought it was really, really good. I agree. I got to watch it again now. I think I only saw it in theaters at one time. Same with me. Same with me. Yeah.

All right, well, let's see what else I have here. I went through pretty much all my questions. Well, I was going to ask you, I don't know if this might be too personal. Well, because you're a touring musician, and one thing about relationships, if you're a touring musician, I know that can be a hard thing to keep going, or just to deal with the constant traveling, and if you're in a relationship and your significant other is at home, and you're on the road for months at a time, this can be a difficult thing for a lot of people, I know. So I don't know if you had any comments or anything on that or if we could just cut that out if you want me to completely. I think it's very important. It definitely kind of weeds out people who don't, you know, or think that touring is going to be great and then they get out here and they're like, you know, I miss my so-and-so. Or if they have a kid at home, it's too difficult for them to do that, which is understandable. But, you know, I am single, don't have any children, which is something I do want someday. And I've met a lot of people on the road who have, you know, big families. And I ask them, like, you know, what do you do? How do you, you know, make them not?

miss you or make them you know remember that you're still a part of this family and i think now with technology it's never been easier to keep you know a relationship going um i actually just it was funny i went and saw chris johnson do a clinic about a week and a half ago right before this tour and a question got asked him about relationships as well and he gave a story of back in you know in the late 90s when cell phones weren't a thing and you had to use a pay phone and you had a time limit on your phone prepaid card that you had five minutes to talk to somebody that you loved and And then you couldn't speak to them for at least another 24 to 48 hours because of traveling or whatever circumstances. And he's like, now it's just a part of your day. You have to put in effort. And I think it's effort on all people's part. But I'm usually never gone that long. I feel like people in the military are gone significantly longer than musicians are. I'm usually doing a 30-day stint, and then I'm home. And since I live in LA, a tour always goes through LA. So even if the tour is 30 days long, I'm back within two weeks max. If I had somebody at home waiting, it's...

I'm sure they'd miss me if that was a thing. But no, it can be tough. I feel like I don't have as much success in that realm as other people do. But I'm just kind of waiting to find that person that understands my life and has their own life when I'm gone. And we can kind of connect whenever I see them again. But there's so many other – I feel like people that would have probably much better advice than that. No, I think that was a fine answer. Yeah. Cell phone. Just use them. I mean we have them. Everyone has a cell phone now. But you can't use – I mean your day, as busy as it can be, it's really not that hectic.

Every tour is different. You know, some tours you have to wake up at 8 a.m. and you work until 2 a.m. And some tours like the one I'm on now, I don't have to get to work until 3 p.m. So I have, you know, countless hours in the morning to do whatever I need. If I had to FaceTime with children at home and a wife, then I could. Yeah. Well, that actually brings me to another question then. If you have this time, I mean, that leaves you some time to, you know, exercise and things like that. Whereas, you know.

I'm older now. If I don't exercise, I gain 5,000 pounds in a week. I have to do it. Drumming isn't enough exercise for you? Absolutely not. No, it's not. Drumming is no exercise for me. I think once you drum for past a certain amount of time, it cancels itself out or something. Your body becomes so used to it.

that it's just no exercise yeah i don't know i mean i mean it's almost becoming like that with my bike now too because i ride my bike so much like where like it almost feels like that doesn't do anything for me like it's like you build these tolerances i think the only way to really you know, for exercise, you have to, like, push yourself, you know, to, like, pass that point where you're, like, you feel like it's too much, you know, and then, like, push yourself to where you're, like, tired again, you know. I don't know. I've never been a fan of working out. I've tried. I've tried so many times. How old are you now? Do you mind me asking? I'm 33. Well, you're not quite there yet. Give it another seven years, and then you're going to have to. I know it will be a thing that I will have to do every single day, but I tend to drum every day, and I do at-home workouts. I do very, like, small. I do, like...

push-ups, crunches. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I mean, you're working out then. But nothing to the extent where I'm like, you know, when I really sweat, it's from drumming. It would never be from working out. And I hate running. I think it's just the most boring exercise on the planet. Yeah, I don't like running. Or whether it's outdoors, I'm just like, when is it over? I feel like I'm back in high school doing laps at the gym. I'm just like, this is not what I signed up for. I don't know. Just running is not my thing. Running is very bad for your joints, too. It's actually very bad for your knees and ankles. Yeah, I don't know. But no, small stuff at home. And I'm just starting to get into yoga. And I think stretching is more...

what I need right now. I have really tight hamstrings. And so I'm trying to focus on that more than anything really right now. Well, yoga is even it's stretching. It's still an exercise. Like you, it's physical, like it's strenuous when you're doing it. Definitely. It's core too, right? I think there's some core involved in there. Absolutely. I haven't done it in a long time, but I used to work for a company that had it and we used to do it every day there and it beat me up. I mean, I would feel like I did like a full body workout after I did yoga for sure. Don't get me wrong. There's some positions where I start laughing because I'm like, there's no way my body is doing that right now.

But I would like to get there. It's definitely a new thing. We're talking weeks of just starting to get into this. And I've actually never been to a yoga studio. So it's just all YouTube videos and just seeing what I'm comfortable with at home before I reach out to that new step in my life that I want to take. Well, my boyfriend, Victor, has been using this app. It's by...

what's his name the guy plays thor chris hensworth yeah um he has an app called center and it's uh i mean i don't use it but victor uses it and it has really i mean i've seen the results like it's like definitely working he is like it's crazy like the amount of progress he's made with just using this app and just exercising in front of the tv it's really pretty amazing actually okay i'm gonna check that out yeah yeah it's pretty cool but i mean if you're doing push-ups and crunches and stuff like that i mean that you say you're not exercising but that's exercising you definitely I'm definitely not building. I'm just keeping a static, skinny level. That's my goal. As long as I can be skinny. How is it with your diet on tour? How do you maintain a good diet? Or what is your diet? Do you think about it? It's pretty nice. I'm so thankful that I get to work for...

these uh this caliber of artists um and i get to i tend to play for a lot of female pop singers i don't know why i don't use that it just kind of falls in my my lap that way but um and everyone if you're a singer or a front person their main focus is body image and what they're eating so there's no fried foods around um it's vegetables and fruits and hummus and carrots uh there's always something healthy to eat. Um, and obviously with tour catering, there's sodas and there can be French fries and stuff like that. It's really just up to you to decide on what, on, you know, how you want to feel that day. But I just, I do notice like a change in my mood when I'm eating healthier. Um, but it's been quite a few years. I think I made the shift when I was probably 26 to really cut out, um, fast food and soda, uh, in my life. Um, and I think that's helped with weight as well. My parents, um, are not heavy by any means, but they're not skinny. So, and I just didn't want to go down that route of, you know, letting myself go. Um, it's, it's important for me to just, you know.

I want to like the image that I see in the mirror. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you have some great healthy options while you're on tour. So that's good. But yeah, sugar is, I mean, sugar is the worst. It really is. Yeah. It's really like, and it's hidden in so many things. Like that's the crazy thing. Like it's like they put sugar in things that just don't need sugar all the time. Yeah.

like salad dressing will be filled with sugar you know like it just and then it just kills the whole purpose of that's why i don't even eat salad i make my salad dressing because there's just so much sugar in salad dressing i make my own that's what i do yeah balsamic and oil hell yeah it's good yeah it's crazy i mean did you see that there's uh like a i mean i kind of i didn't think it was amazing but it was pretty good it brought up the point of you know sugar being hidden everything that documentary called fed up yeah yeah i mean it really shows like in how like they don't have to show like a like a daily percentage value for sugar like on that you know the nutrition facts on the back of you know everything like for some reason sugar got out of habit like if they showed it it'd be like two thousand percent on like everything you know like yeah like it's crazy yeah i heard it's a leading cause of cancer it's it's it's really what's causing everyone's problems in life you know i believe it diabetes and all that all that stuff Yeah, it's definitely something to stay away from. Yeah. I mean, while you're – see, when I was, like, in my 20s and 30s, I always felt good pretty much no matter what I ate. But as soon as I turned 40, it's weird, man. It's like you have this, like, time bomb in your body or something. It's like as soon as you turn 40, it's like all of a sudden stuff just doesn't – it just doesn't work the same way. It's weird, at least for me. It was, like, literally like a switch flipped. And it was like then I just – I seriously had to start paying attention. Like, if I eat bad for, like, more than one meal in a row, like, I'm paying for it, you know?

i can do one like i can you know i can i can have one like cheeseburger and fries once a week something you have to you drive yourself crazy if you didn't get to eat what you really wanted to eat yeah yeah yeah but yeah if i do it more than once in a row it's like yeah i'm paying for it headaches and body aches and yeah it's real great this whole aging thing yeah it seems that i think will ease that pain when i hit 40. yeah yeah yeah for sure if i you know if i'd been healthy well i don't know i get i guess i'm really lucky because like i really didn't take care of myself you know and like i i somehow got through that and still look pretty decent you know so yeah lucky though genes genetics and luck that's i think a lot has to do with it well all right so yeah it was great chatting with you i think that we've been how long we've been on here a couple hours it seems like or an hour at least and now what's your gig tonight where are you tonight Jacksonville. That's right, Jacksonville. We're playing at Amphitheater tonight and then going to North Carolina tomorrow, I believe. Let's see, I have your list right here. Jacksonville, no, yeah, Raleigh tomorrow. Baltimore the day after that. Yeah, you're...

Agent sent me your tour list here. Yeah, so if anybody listening is in the area, actually, I'll try to get this posted up tonight so that way this is current, and if not, then if it's up by tomorrow, Tyler's going to be in Raleigh on August 3rd, and right now you're out with Tyler Gray. Tyler Gray. Sorry about that. You're Tyler. Hey, how are you? Baltimore on August 5th, Albany, New York on August 6th, and on the 8th you'll be in Guilford, New Hampshire.

Sweet. Yeah. So, cool. Good luck on the rest of the tour. Yeah. Thanks, Justin. And it was really good chatting with you, man. It was a good conversation. I enjoyed it. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. That was fun. Yeah, no problem. And I hope you come back sometime. That'd be great. Yeah. Thank you. All right. I'll talk to you later. All right. Sounds good. All right. Bye. Bye.