John Wayne Gacy

This might be loud, so check yourself. Welcome, everybody, to episode 107 of One Million of the Serial Chillers Podcast. Again.

We're back, baby. We are back. Hey, Greg, how's it going, dude? Good man, how are you? I am well. Special guest in the studio today. Have you heard? That was a question for you. Have you heard? Question number one. Have you heard? Oh, me. Yeah. Yeah, no, I heard. You're the guy I was speaking to at the moment. Ah, classic me. Very good. Very good. Guys, special guest today. If you hang out in the Discord or the Twitch stream, you'll probably know him. If you don't get to know him, today's a fucking day. Welcome all the way from SoCal, bruh.

Right? Is that what you guys do down there or whatever? No. I've never been, but I've heard. Welcome to the studio, Eddie and Slewis. Thanks for having us, man. Dude, absolutely. It's been a long time coming, and it's a pleasure to have you guys. Well, how was the drive, guys?

It was lame. You got to Tulare and you're like, oh, it smells bad here. Suck it Tulare. That's not Bakersfield. Really? Yeah, I started getting the cow smell. Suck it Bakersfield, too. Classic. It still hasn't recovered from the COVID times? No, never. Really? Just never? He's just never been able to smell. He's like Dewey Cox. It works out for me. Perfect. I can be as smelly as I want. I love garlic and he doesn't care. Fantastic. Well, welcome, guys. Thank you for being here. I know it's not a short drive, so I appreciate the effort. You've already won because of the journey. It's not about the destination. It's about the journey.

All right, you guys know how the show works. Let me explain it for anybody that doesn't. Each week, I sit down with old friends, new friends, good friends, and bad friends to tell them the story of an infamous serial killer, something true crime, dark, creepy, unsolved, or otherwise mysterious. If you have questions, be sure to chime in because if you have questions about questions, make sure to ask questions because I cannot answer questions about questions if you never ask questions. Guys, this is where it gets fucking real. You're going to get some news you're going to love. Trust me. And until then, do you have any questions? Calm down. Can I get a bird? Yeah. For me? Yeah.

That's got to be a new sound. We'll work on that. You got that Lysol still, right? I'm going to put a Barney one in there and just say it was me. The purple dinosaur, not from this. Well, with all questions answered, then welcome to and let's play the Serial Chillers podcast. It's real, you guys. Did you hear it? I love it. I love it. Okay. I told you guys before we started recording, the first 15 episodes had some heavy hitters. And if you're listening to this now, those don't exist anymore. Between audio quality and research quality, they didn't meet the standards that we'd like to continue forward with.

That was a brand. We like to hold ourselves to a higher stage. I mean, we don't. We also know that a lot of you are going to start on episode one and judge us from that. So we're going to at least start you out somewhere where we sounded like remotely like we do now, I feel like. So you guys today got one of those first 15. It is a serial killer. I don't have to ask you, have you heard? Because you have. I also had to change a lot of the questions because I got some experts coming in. Are you guys excited? I'm suspicious. You're suspicious? Today's killer for episode 107 in the longest outline that has ever been written in serial killer's history. It's not a joke.

John Wayne Gacy. I'll guess. All right. Did you guys notice it? We put a hint in here. I was wondering. I was wondering where I was up. Eddie's going down. Yeah, because we have a thing that we usually put up on the screen, and I switched it for a button so that if you guys walked in, you wouldn't see it. And Greg was like, put that hint up there, though. Put it on the shelf, see if they notice it. Eddie's racking his brain for details. He's like, oh, there's a clown.

I also didn't want to put a picture of him as a clown up there because, you know, I think he liked that. And I think he liked to be known as that. And I say, fuck his stupid face. Yeah, fuck that guy. Yes, exactly. Fuck that guy. Also, I don't like clowns, so I would probably run out the door. So you should have done it. So this entire shelf of Pennywise the Dancing Clowns. Yeah, that's why she's sitting there and I'm over here. All right, so references and citations for this episode. We use a big list from famousbio.net. Just the Gacy biography is titled. Infamous.com had a 26 twisted fact about John Wayne Gacy. How many of them were actually really twisted? Like... Seven. Three-ish. Three. Three or so. Conversations with the Killer.

Conversations with the Killer, the John Wayne Gacy tape, which is on Netflix. I recommend it. It's three parts. It's only an hour each. I was going to watch that, too. Shut up. Were you? Now you won't have to. No way. What's cool, though, is that I kind of, I don't love to pull information from documentaries because documentary filmmakers are such assholes about giving you real information. It's much more about getting people to watch it. So I usually just watch them for reference. Like the guy who did the Bob Lazar documentary, Jeremy Corbyn. Anybody. Documentaries are very, you've got to take them with a grain of salt. So most of the information was built. Then I watched the doc. I was like, oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. That's true. I don't think so. And then, you know, kind of that way. And then go old Wikipedia, guys. Ah, yes. The Wikipedia. The Wikipedia.

Question number one, guys. I just want to say I would like to hear a high note here. Oh, I deliver. Trust me. Question number one. In what year? I'm just kidding. I got you fuckers. In what year was John Wayne Gacy born? You guys can stab at it if you'd like. I do have some multiple choice options if you decide that you want those. Because there is a way to score points, and that's by getting it right this time. This isn't a closest deal. Stab for 1,000. These are the pin selections. Don't use baby blue like Paul. I can't see it. Are you colorblind?

It's such a light blue. And it's like a needle fine pen. And he would intentionally hold it back. I literally put enough cards so you guys could write an answer on three each time and there'd be enough. Blood red. I already got red. It doesn't matter. You guys are going to mix them up. You just need to hold it up. Now shuffle. Okay, so are you going to stab at the birth year? It's got to be exact to get the thousand points. But you also got to get one of these four right to get the 250. Since when? I thought it was close enough. I'm mixing things up, guys. This is bullshit. You mean you weren't prepared. We moved the goalposts. You know why? We're allowed to. This is our show.

And so I know the answer. I can tell you. Okay, here's the multiple choice options. Is it A, 1937, B, 1942, C, 1946, or D, 1950? 37, 42, 46, or 50. So Lewis went, fuck, those are all plausible. I was hoping you'd give us a wide array. No process of elimination here. I knew you guys were going to be tough to stump, whether you studied or not. That's the faith I had in you.

Eddie's a cheater. Well, he already wrote his answer down. All right, what do you got, Eddie? D. Eddie says D, 1950. B. B, 1942. John Wayne Gacy was born in Chicago, Illinois, March 17th, 1942. That's 250 points to Slewis, an early lead. Don't worry, Eddie. Plenty of time. Plenty of time. For you to lose. Loving it. Well, we told you, like, if I lose, I'm moving out of the house. You're going to have to take the Greyhound home. Oh, so this is the first time Serial Chillers has actually had steaks. Well.

John Wayne Gacy is born again, Chicago, Illinois, March 17th, 1942. He was the middle of three sisters, or middle of three children. He had two sisters. That's pretty much the last we're going to talk about those siblings, I swear. They're so non-sequential in any of this, it's like, all right, cool. And good. In like 16 pages, I'll mention one of them again, but that's it for now. Don't worry about it. Like 16 pages. Okay, thanks, Captain Foreshadow. Hey, I read a lot of Stephen King. That's how he gets it done, man. So his parents were John Stanley Gacy Sr. and Marianne Elaine Robinson. Dad was an auto repair machinist and World War I vet. Mom was a homemaker.

It's the 40s, damn it. She got a business card with that shit on there. John's father was, as you might have guessed, an abusive alcoholic, and throughout John's life, they never really saw eye to eye. Gacy would have a tumultuous relationship with his father for most of his life until one fateful moment. 14 pages, guys. We'll get there. I'm Captain Foreshadow. Yeah. I got new nicknames. Next week, it's not going to say Chromium and Jesse down here. I always do that. I suck at that. I fucking never can remember which side of me. It's down here! John Sr., relentless to his son, as in most episodes. These poor little babies, they just never have a chance. Poor little baby clown.

He's an alcoholic. He does lots of abusing. Just lots of it. Physical and mental, of course, because why just beat him when you could just really beat them down on the inside to really make those children submissive? I've heard it's the way to get it done. I might start doing it to my own children. Just remember not to cry. I do it to other people's children.

We don't. We've heard. We've seen the newspaper clippings. Yeah. Again, I don't read it. That's why I said you've seen them. John Jr. claims that the first memory he has is of his father beating him with a belt, and that the second memory he has is of his dad breaking a broomstick over his head. What a lovely poor memory. I was just going to say, I don't remember what my first memories are.

Is that the reason? I mean, maybe I got a broomstick over my head. Maybe. That was my second thought was, of all things to remember, having a broomstick broken over your head seems like that one might have gotten beaten at you a little bit, but good for him for holding on to that. Yeah. What kind of broom? You know, was it wooden, metal, aluminum? The metal one would probably be the best possible because those just bend and it's over. A wood one. Well, no, you can keep going. Those things hold up. I mean, we're talking back in the day when wood was stronger. It was built different.

What? The trees, they were stronger then, remember? Wonderful John Sr., John Jr. memories. Why name your son after you if you're just going to fucking hate him?

So that's what I don't get. Maybe that's why he hated him, though. You ain't me! Well, maybe he named him after him with like, You aren't me. Get in the car. We're getting out of here. He was like, Oh, man, I'm really excited to see how my child turns out. And he's going to be just like me. And it's going to be great. And he was nothing like him. He was like, Man, I wasted this name on you. But his first memories of getting the shit beat out of him. He didn't really give him a lot. I think he pulled the cake out of the oven a little early. You know what I'm saying? Give him a chance, man. I'm just saying. Maybe he could tell from an early age. He was like, This kid likes clowns. That's weird. He doesn't like hot sauce. What baby doesn't like hot sauce? He's a father who has to be kicking the shit. That's actually contractually obligated in the

Have a rough day. Take it out on the misses. Have you ever seen Mad Men, damn it? So John Jr. is never going to be able to escape the house to go out and play and compete in sports due to a heart condition.

It's never diagnosed officially, but a doctor tells his parents and himself, like, you need to avoid sports at all costs. You have a heart condition. His dad said, get out in the yard and run laps. So this is, a lot of reports say this is actually, like, one of the reasons John Sr. was, like, super against his sons. He's like, what? I got some son. He's a pussy that can't play sports. Like, what the fuck is this shit? Give me a broomstick. And so, I'll beat the heart condition out of this. And, like, again, this isn't like a, oh, well, you know, it might be better if you don't, but, you know, you could try and see. Like, the doctor's like, hey, avoid them. And so his mom takes it seriously, tells John he can't. John Sr.'s like, what the fuck did you say?

John grows up non-athletic, a little portly, and his father believes him to be too effeminate. John would also suffer many seizures during his high school years, as well as a burst appendix in 1957. It's like, a lot of times I think about when I hear stuff, I'm like, what a fucking hypochondriac. But a lot of these are like, I guess you could fake a seizure. You don't fake a burst appendix. There's not a whole lot of ways. Like, no, I can feel it in here. It is for sure. Also, somebody who almost had a burst appendix a couple years ago.

That's some real shit. That is the most excruciating pain I've ever been in my life. I like to think there's somebody out there listening right now. I'm trying to see if they can get their appendix to inflame. Ow, I feel something. Just pinch it a bunch. That's called a hernia. You push too hard. Just push it back in, right? Yeah. So John, like in this stretch of time, in and out of the hospital constantly, all in all, his dad just kind of hated him for being who he was. And John was never really sure. John Sr. was never really sure, besides the first appendix, if John was actually sick, we're faking the rest of it. So again, he knew the first appendix. He's like, yeah, all right. This little pansy and the rest of his behavior.

And there's no son of mine, even though he's named my name. Want me to get the broom? We don't even put brooms on the end anymore. I just keep a closet full of sticks for breaking over my son's head. I was going to say, what's the likelihood that that appendix was just from being beat?

I mean, I don't know. I think the appendix is a pointless organ. Swinging the broom. Don't talk shit about appendixes. Just because you don't have one doesn't mean you don't need one. I was just going to say, what is this all this anti-appendix propaganda? Big appendixes in on it. Yeah, you guys can have mine. I can just picture his dad swinging the broom and hitting him and he goes, ow, my appendix. It's the one thing I can prove. Are you sure? 100%. It doesn't matter. You don't need it. Just pop that out of there. Not only is John beat by his dad, the neighborhood kids fucking hate him.

And there's not a lot of bullying that takes place in school because over four years of high school, John went to, like, about a total of one year of high school because he was in and out of hospital so often. And it's the 40s. Yeah, so he would have, like, these weird seizures. He'd go in the hospital for a couple months, and, you know, a doctor would come up and, like, knock on his head, like, yep, still sounds like a coconut. I probably got the brain damage. It makes me think of Krieger from Archer when they were doing, they had to be shrunk down to go inside the doctor. I don't remember it. And he wanted, Krieger had the, what's the thing where they put the calipers on your head?

Phrenology? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, well, any good phrenologist knows that this man's a serial killer. And they're like, he's a genius scientist. And he's like, what? You won't bleed him. You won't put leeches on him. You won't stick him. You won't freeze him. You people are quacks. And I feel like that's not that far off. That's what's going on with John. John's like, I'm sick. And the doctor's like, yeah, definitely awesome. Sit right here in this bed and we'll take care of you for at least six months. Wait, wait, wait. He's got ghosts in his blood. Do some cocaine about it. We will do some cocaine about it. Yeah, for all you long-time listeners, there it is. Part of the greatest hits. I was waiting. Does not go to high school for very long. Doesn't actually even technically graduate.

As the 40s fade out and move into the 50s, John Jr. and Sr. are just pretty much trying to stay out of each other's way at this point. But John Sr. seems to hate his son so much and is constantly doubting the validity of any of his illnesses or anything that he does. John was not able to graduate high school. He did try to do some of the work from the hospital rooms, but quickly fell behind. When he was 18, he found a group he felt accepted him and one he could call his own. The Democrats.

He worked as a Democratic candidate or for a Democratic candidate in his area and finally felt acceptance from his peers and an older man and a politician who was very nice to him and a good stand-in for a father. I mean, he's 18. It's all coming back. Why is it the way you said the Democrats felt like Grandpa Simpson? The Democrats! As was the fashion at the time.

So he worked for the Democratic candidate, and he found that man to be kind of a father figure. Believe it or not, John Sr. did not like John Jr.'s involved in politics, assuming that he was there to take the fall for something. So it wasn't so much that he hated him that he was a Democrat. He was like, you're not smart enough to be there. You're going to be a patsy sometimes. They're setting something up, and you are there to take the fall for it. That's why you were allowed to get involved in politics. So he's finally feeling accepted. Oh, I've got a father figure in this man. You know, my dad's kind of a piece of shit, but maybe this will make him proud of me. He's like, yeah, right. You're just there to be the failure, idiot. Democrats, anyway.

One day you're going to hear about this guy named Reagan, and let me tell you something. I know he's an actor now, but listen. He's going to smash. Just give that guy some Skittles and watch him go. Despite his seeming disappointment in his son, he still wanted to set him up for some type of success, so John Sr. buys John Jr. a car with some caveats. It would remain in his father's name until it was paid off, and John Sr. would constantly hold it over John Jr.'s head and use it as a means to get his son to do what he wanted. He would keep the keys, and if John Jr. didn't listen, he would just take them away. And remember, John's like 18 at this point. He's done with high school. He didn't graduate, but he's out of high school. I don't know. I just can't imagine. I'm a grown man, Dad. Oh, yeah? You think you're leaving, are you? I have the keys, and you're just being like, okay, Dad. I don't know. It just seems so fucking strange to me. Isn't he big enough to like...

beat his ass back. But also, like, yeah, he'll get the broom. He knows that that closet-filled broomstick exists, you know? What are you gonna do, give me my appendix? I think of it a lot like, like, you know, there's people who, like, had a Chihuahua, right? And then they get a Great Dane, and the Great Dane puppy gets punked so hard by the little Chihuahua, because Chihuahuas are just dicks, doesn't matter. And then this Great Dane grows to be a 140-pound dog, and the Chihuahua is six pounds, and the Great Dane is, for their entire life, afraid of the Chihuahua, because they got punked in their little... I kind of feel like there's that dynamic going on. He's like, my father is an all-powerful man. You ever seen Hot Rod?

Yeah. And then he goes and beat up his stepdad. Was that on DVD? I bet you could probably find it on VHS. 2008, Eddie. You might still be able to find it on VHS. No, your kid was never on VHS! So, since his father would take the keys, John secretly got a second set. This would last like three days. Senior finds out about it, and he's like, oh, okay, I'll just take off the distributor cap. So, Greg is our resident mechanic. He can tell you what that is if you want, but I'll tell you a vehicle. It doesn't work without it, so. Greg, do you want to give a more technical explanation as to why stealing the distributor cap might be important?

No. That's where the gasoline goes. Okay. No, it's the spark comes from there. Yeah, exactly. It goes on the coil a little bit. The ability for the sparks to... It rotates around and makes sparks that go into all the spark plugs. I was going to say, you better start saying some real shit before people call you dumb. I was going to say, people are going to be like, oh, you're dumb. Guess what? You're fucking right. Honestly, I just learned a lot. At one point in 1962, Junior asked Senior to put the cap on so that he could go to work. John Junior finally had enough with all this bullshit and drove away and moved to be away from his parents. Question number two. Where did John move?

Was it A, Los Angeles, B, Las Vegas, C, New York, or D, Green Bay, Wisconsin? Los Angeles, Las Vegas. I like to call it Las Vegas. I was going to say it. Well, you got the follow-up line. Nice. New York. You don't get that watch Frisky Dingo, you Philistine. Got your answer ready? I don't want her to copy.

It's fair. I mean, the stakes aren't close enough really for her to be doing that. The stakes are fucking huge. D. So it says D. Green Bay. Eddie says C. Did you say C? I did say C. All right. Don't try to change your answer. Eddie says C. New York. New York. New York. It's a hell of a town. No, neither of you are right. He went to Las Vegas, Nevada from his home in Illinois. New York makes sense. Green Bay also makes sense. He's like, oh, that's not very far drive. He's kind of in Las Vegas. You know, they're close, right? Yep. Nope. Las Vegas. All the way to Las Wages. We got another quick question coming up quick. Keep those pins in your hands. He would find work almost instantly when he gets to Las Vegas.

Question number three. What job would John find? Was he A, a janitor in a mortuary? B, a manager at a KFC? C, he started a contracting company? Or D, a janitor in a high school? Well, I was going to stab, but the answer's not on there, so. I want him to be a KFC. Janitor at a mortuary, managing a KFC, starting a contracting company, or janitor at a high school? Yeah, hey, Pop, I just want to let you know I made it to Las Vegas and I'm doing all right. I'm dancing. It's this place called Chicklets. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God. That could be better. It's this place called Walnuts. That's where we met. Lewis says, janitor in high school, Eddie says, janitor in a mortuary. So you guys are pretty sure that's the job he's got. Regardless of where it is, you guys know where he stands in life. I'm just kidding, janitors. Janitors, you do great work out there. I believe they're all called custodians at this point, right? I remember I called in elementary school the custodian, a janitor. Was it James? Whoa, I'm a custodian. He was not stoked. I was like, oh. I think they're called something different. See, the one at my school is a locker room attendant. Oh. I just go with the half mate and call the master of the custodial arts. Was it James? It was James. I was going to say Singh wouldn't do that. Yeah, Singh would not have done that. Okay, guys. He was a janitor in a mortuary. Fuck. Cool.

So, give Eddie 250. I don't keep track anymore, but I believe that ties it up. It does tie it up. It's on the screen now, so if I fuck it up, it's Greg's fault, first of all. Yes, it is. Second of all, it's on the screen. You guys can just catch it and fix it, all right? Not too long after this, sorry, not too long after Gacy's arrival, he would begin work as a janitor at the Palm Mortuary. While John was just the janitor, he was still around and had access to corpses. He would also occasionally stop his work to watch a mortician work a body. I suppose this was not a red flag to any of them, because like...

Generally, if you get into the mortuary business, that's how it starts. Like, oh, you've got to be the janitor. You've got to know somebody. Yeah, you work your way up. And so it was not strange for the janitor to stop and watch them do an autopsy. Because people there are all kind of learning the trade. You don't be a janitor at a mortuary because you're like, oh, I just really love cleaning. I've got a passion for disinfecting. And it just seemed like the dirtiest place I could go. Some of us have OCD, okay? Well, I don't know if that's how you want to be, then. I like the thought of somebody just being like, yeah, I know somebody. Like, this is my friend Tim. He died. I'm hoping to mortuary him. Yeah, exactly. He actually moves around when you play Calypso music. It's pretty cool. Man, I saw that movie. Documentary.

So again, it's not a red flag that he's going like, okay, so why'd you do that then? Yeah, it is. I don't know why'd you do that. If it's like that, it is. It's just a different time. So despite him hoping like Dean Pelton that this would not awaken anything in him, there are mixed reports. Some say that John merely looked at the bodies of young dead men for extended periods of time, possibly while pleasuring himself. Other reports would say that John touched some of the corpses in inappropriate ways. The main and most often reported story, and this one was even commented by John himself, is that he committed necrophilia with the bodies of at least two young men while an employee of the Palm Mortuary.

So it's not long after this that he fucking freaked himself out. Like, he fucked a couple dead people. And he, like, goes home. That was fine, but. And he's, like, sick with himself. So it's like, you're. Good. You guys will see when you hear episode 106, we did this a whole bunch, where it goes up and down a lot. You're like, oh, he's going to do good. Oh, you didn't, though. Darn it. Imagine having to be his supervisor, though. You're like, John, hey, good morning. Come in here. A couple things I want to talk to you about. Been hearing some strange reports. So we have cameras. Anything you want to tell me before we get started? Have you been inappropriate with any of the bodies around here?

No? Okay. I'm going to just tell you now. Just assume I know everything, okay? If I'm asking you a specific question, it's because I know the answer. You filled these orifices pretty sufficiently, John. Oh, God! Because you've got to think, too, it's like early 60s. Like, they didn't have security cameras in there. There's no...

I feel like if there's a bunch of dead bodies around, there should always be security cameras. Just in case. But there's a security guard. I'm not even talking about... I think at a mortuary like that, you're like, oh, we got a janitor. We don't need a security guard. Yeah, but I'm not talking they need security cameras to watch the janitor. I just think in case a body sits up... Well, that's why they're in those locked refrigerators. Ow!

But don't you think, like, man, that guy's been in that room for a long time. As soon as he's doing it in there, he comes out. And that's where it's like, I don't know the details. Like, was he a custodian? His coveralls are down in his face. What the fuck? Why do you have him tied off? It's hot in there. It's just like, he's just soaked right in the refrigerator room. He's just soaked under the pits, and for some reason, the whole crotch is just dark wet. Like, what fluid is it? It was not long after this that, again, he freaked himself out. He calls his mom, because he's not going to call his fucking dad. He's like, Mommy, I fucked a dead dick. Can I come home?

So by John's own admission, he returned home because he was shocked by what he had done. He also said that he was very confused by it. He said, I need to go to my room. Did you like my Dean Pelton joke? Because he was truly like that. It's funny because Dean Pelton does have a bunch of stuff awakened in him from that. Yeah, I remember the Dalmatian costume later. It freaks me out. So John returns to Chicago from Las Vegas, astonished by his own behavior. He would not admit to these things until after his arrest, but he did admit to them. John talked about how he talked himself into these acts by telling himself that the bodies were, quote, just dead things that wouldn't tell anybody.

Ain't nobody using it. Okay. You know, if you're looking at a story and you're like, oh, I'd like to see when the red flags start to pop up. I kind of wonder when they are. Before, it was like, oh, he's a sickly kid. Always. He didn't cut apart cats. You know, he's like, yeah, you know, maybe a little... That seems like a low bar. Maybe a little Munchausen. They didn't get caught. Yeah, that's also true. That's also true. Or confess to it. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. So, Gacy gets home, planning to take his dark new secret to the grave. In an attempt at a more normal life, he enrolls himself in the Northwestern Business College. Strange enrollment, because he never technically graduated high school, but fuck it. It's...

1960. We'll do it live. Yeah, exactly. Of course I graduated high school. Look at me. They're like, damn it, you're right. Welcome to Northwestern. Go Wildcats. I'm a white male. I have education. And is a 60, so you were definitely never lying. Of course you did. So he's immediately offered a management trainee position at the Nunn Bush Shoe Company right out of college. What a name. Dude, you know what's crazy? I realized yesterday that dress shoes... Oh, I have them there in my room because I wore them yesterday in an interview.

The dress shoes I wear are non-bush. So the shoes that I have are... Really? There you go. That's where John Wayne Gacy started his career. Wearing the Gacy Ones. Tell him he's got some fucking murder about you!

No, those are going too high for resale right now. I can't afford them. The Gacy ones? Yeah, he's got the Gacy 12s. They're in the fucking off-white. Better be off-white. I got the Pogo 3s. They have polka dots on them. Yeah, they're limited. They're not polka dots. It's like little splurts of blood. Yeah, exactly. It dries brown. So this is also like a sign of the 60s. Like you finished college and you're like, great, let's fast track you to management, son. Now it's like, hey, do you want to apply for jobs for nine months to be told you don't have enough experience even though you have all the experience you'd fucking possibly get? Oh, cool. Well, that's just how it is now. Welcome to the future. Yeah, exactly.

No, I can't. I can't. He becomes quite a natural. He's actually quite charming. Again, he worked in politics. He was like, essentially the politician needed something set up. He needed an event. He needed someone to rent out a hall. He needed someone to get them a caravan of vehicles. John was like the coordinator for that. He's the guy that everybody knows. I know a guy. It is. He truly is that guy. And he becomes that guy for Nunn Bush. So he's offered a true management role pretty quickly. He's no longer in training. And it's not long before he's fully running that department.

Despite his later admitted homosexuality at this time, Gacy is wanting to live a normal life. You know, it's early 60s. You're not allowed to be gay. You're just not. No, he just went to, you know, a retreat. Yes. With the church. Yes, exactly. So in an attempt to live a normal life, he begins to court a woman and he wants to start a family. So not long after becoming a manager, he would get engaged and then married to a coworker named Marilyn Myers. While attempting to win over Myers, Gacy joined the Jaycees. Gacy Jaycees.

The JCs are the United States Junior Chamber, also known as the JCs or JCI USA, which is a leadership training and civic organization for people between the ages of 18 and 40. So, you know, nerds. I think it's like, you know, to me, it seems like, like, you know, you age out of Boy Scouts, like, I still need like an organization to be a part of this is like, you can be involved. It's like community service, right? It's like community service, but they like the.

It's networking. It's being, you know, you're in the Jaycees and you're in the Illinois Jaycees. And there's the... You can put it on your college application. Right. There's Wisconsin Jaycees. And yeah, exactly. It helps you professionally because if you move, you just get in with the Jaycees there. You're networking. A network job because, hey, I'm a Jaycee. I was the Jaycee president in Illinois. So yeah, it's kind of something like that. Get out of town. You know Dan. Yeah. So look at it. I mean, that's what it is. It's a civic organization for people between the ages of 18 and 40 that provide leadership training. The areas of emphasis are business development, management skills, individual training, community service, and international connections. The U.S. Chamber is a non-profit corporation organization.

Who occasionally, occasionally, it's not never, but it's not always, make serial killers. And boink each other. Boink. They do. Great foreshower. Who's the foreshower now? So we will see going forward that John thrives when there is order in his life. During his time with the Jaycees, he would, like, this is...

This is the organization he needed. And if only he didn't murder people, he might have been a pretty fucking decent dude. Early on in his tenure, he would be named Key Man in April of 1964 of the Jaycees. It is during this year that Gacy talks about his next homosexual experience with fellow Jaycee who got him drunk and performed oral sex on him. So there's some conflicting stories. I put next because I edited and I took out the first one because John claims way later down the line to have been molested early in his life. There's no evidence. I mean, he's not a victim.

But at the same time, he's claiming to have been a victim. And it's hard for me to be like, no, it didn't. It doesn't seem like it was a claim that he made. It seems like he made it later to get a little attention. He was trying to get maybe some sympathy points. It could have happened. It might have. So if it did, this is his next. If it didn't, this is his first homosexual experience. He had it with a fellow JC. They got faded. And we've all seen that episode of South Park where they're in the hot tub. And they just got weird, had a conversation, decided that blowing each other would totally not be awkward. And would, you know. Just friends. Yeah, come on. This is how you leadership. So I don't know what Greg just edited out of all that. But enjoy what just happened. So this is John's.

We'll call it his first homosexual experience. He's well into dating Marilyn at this point, but he's super conflicted because his normal feeling is like, I want to be with men. But his brain is like, you've got to be with a chick. You're not allowed. It's fucking 1964. Men are trash. Yeah, 1964. They are. Fuck them. 1964. This is why we have a female voice, guys. This is why we do it. They are married. So he's like, you know what? I like the gay stuff, but I need to be normal.

By 1965, he is now the VP of the Springfield Jaycees and the third most outstanding Jaycee in all of Illinois. I like how they rank them. They're like, oh, you're number three. It's podium. So good job, John. I guess that time the hot tub was ruined. I'm number 17. Shut up. You're not the top 10. You're not allowed to talk and you know the rules, Mark. Quiet, 17. I wonder if that other guy was 69. Oh, sure. Nice. So.

After the marriage, John, VP of Springfield Jaycees, third most outstanding Jaycee in all of Illinois, marrying Marilyn did prove slightly beneficial for John besides the whole being able to fit in thing. He was offered a cushy job by his father-in-law. It was a trick question earlier because his father-in-law owned three KFCs in Waterloo, Iowa, and Jaycee was offered a salary of $15,000 and a share of the profit from the three stores. Dude, $15,000 then is approximately $135,000 now. What the hell? So can you imagine getting married? It's like you don't even need me anymore. And so his father's like, here's some KFCs, $135,000, and a share of the profits. I just need you to manage them.

It would never happen. Yeah. No, it doesn't normally happen. I don't have a father. Imagine being a gay guy who needs to hide being gay. So you're like, well, I've got to marry a woman. All you've got to do is lure them in with the bucket. That's it. You make $165K and...

Do your fucking thing, man. He's also never going to turn out to be a good guy, so he's going to make some money and figure it all out. No way. Wait, you mean this isn't the Good Guys podcast? Oh, I accidentally researched the real John Wayne. Even he wasn't a good guy. No, he wasn't. He did play Genghis Khan once, so talk about fake Asian accents. Which we were earlier, because a lot of that probably got edited out. We don't know. Henry, if you heard that, call me. He did respond to an AMA question of mine one time, so we're pretty much best friends. So he knows I'm alive. That's true. I'm on the board.

So, in my opinion, he's already sort of showing some signs of escalation because he becomes a manager. He, like, takes his course, becomes a manager. He's running it. And, like, obviously, like, KFC generally, especially, like, in the early 60s, this is, like... Was dope as hell. Well, that. And it's just, like, a starter job. So, it's full of, like, high school kids, very young adults. KFC in the 60s was a little more of a formal restaurant. Like, they brought your food out to the table after you ordered at the counter.

So John opens up a club in the basement of his home so his employees could come over, have some drinks, play some pool, and relax where they didn't have to worry about being bothered. Get assaulted. Except by John. I wonder where that could go wrong. Yes. So at his KFC, John has a very good even mix of both males and females in his employ. However, at the basement club, it's fairly exclusively the young men who gather to hang out. It's a boys club.

I mean, it wasn't said as much, but they're really the only ones that get the invite. Legally, he can't call it that. Yeah, that's true. It was the 60s. Fuck yeah. I was going to say it back then. No, women allowed. Get out of here. Also, we don't like your kind around here. That's the kind of club that John puts on you. You know what I'm trying to say. It's 1964. I'm allowed to. Shut up. Some of these young men would later tell stories of John approaching them in some very sexual way. But then when they turn him down, John would be like, I was fucking joking. Gross. What are you, gay? It was a test and you passed. Exactly. Or if he knew they were some of the more like... He would be an assistant manager now.

Some of them, you know, would be the more like religious ones that he knew. So he'd be like, good, good, my son. This was a morality test. And by not blowing me super fucking hard, you are. Which would be super dope. Which, yeah, exactly. You're not going to do it. So morality says, you are not moral, my son. You know, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, all that or whatever. But think about it.

Because, I mean, you got to play pool and drink here, right? And, like, my dick is right here. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Moral, though, right? The couch is still there. Yeah, exactly. So now for a real tearjerker moment. John has two children over the next two years, in 1966 and 1967. He's incredibly satisfied with his life at this point, going as far to refer to this two-year period as perfect. So he looks back on it, even though he's, like, truly a homosexual man, trying to hide it. So he gets married. He has kids. He truly loved his life at this point. He would actually, at this point, finally gain the acceptance of his father.

who he so desperately seeked the attention of as a boy and younger man. At one point, he's got the two kids. His father and mother come to visit John in Maryland. John Sr. approaches his son with tears in his eyes, looks him directly in the face, shakes his hand, and says, Son, I was wrong about you, and apologize for all the abuse that he has put his family through. Imagine that shit. Joke's on you. Too late, motherfucker! Rewer has he gave him the keys back to the car at that point. John Jr. John, you know what? Here's the distributor cap and the keys. I'm proud of you, boy.

But I mean, truly. This car's 30 years old. What a moment in your life, though, if you're struggling, if you had that father figure who was always fucked up, and you still seek the approval. You know, like you, you said, you know, like, I got a problem. I trim the fat. I don't need that shit no more. John was like, Daddy, I love you! All the time still. So when his dad was like, hey, I was wrong. You made a man out of yourself, and I'm proud of you. John, like, he broke into tears. He's like, man, holy shit, I made something of myself. My life is... You said I've peaked. Yeah. Now, downhill.

Right. So he's managing KFC, has the approval of John Sr. He's married, two kids, says it's perfect, but he still feels like he's missing something. So he joins the Waterloo Jaycees. He often provides the food. Once a Jaycee, always a Jaycee. Exactly. That's what I say. Not my chair, not my problem. Jaycee often provided the food for the Jaycee events. Believe it or not, fried chicken.

Get out. Yep. This fun little tradition causes... Only the chicken? What about the taters, man? No, it's all about the biscuits. Join the JC's. It's catered by KFC's. You take the biscuit, you break it in half, you put taters on both sides, you rip the chicken apart. And mac and cheese. Fucking just put it all on there. Just put it all on there. I feel like... You guys want to go to KFC after this? I feel like you missed the opportunity to call it Gacy's KFC JC's. Yeah. Oh, man. Missed opportunities all around. Greg's our marketing guy, by the way. Abby. So this fun little tradition caused Gacy to begin to ask to be called Colonel. No. Yeah, yeah. They didn't just bring it out like, ah, look at the Colonel brought chicken again. He's like, hey, guys, they bring chicken. So like, what do you think about calling me, uh...

You know, Colonel. Did you just ask for your own nickname? No, no, no. Like the guy in the commercials. I think that'd be great. I'm a little fatter. I get it. I get it. It'd be crazy if you called me Colonel. That'd be hilarious. Like, whoa, did somebody say that was a good idea? I think Tom said it. Tom, was that you? Did you guys just start calling me Colonel? Honestly, up to this point, I think I was, you know, he was okay, but fuck that guy. When he asked to be called Colonel. This was over, all right, guys? Fuck that guy. So, yeah, look, he's fucking making his own nicknames. You all have a reason to hate him now. And if you're out there making your own nicknames. Stop. Yeah, don't. Don't. It's not going to stick. Don't.

Unless it's Cromwell and Jesse. That's an amazing one. And thank you, Jesse, for giving me that. So it has become a well-known fact that he's involved with the Waterloo Jaysies. While he's doing it, the Gaysies, they are a little more wild than the Chicago ones. These ones, they have stag parties. They are involved in wife swapping. Some prostitution. And illicit drug use. So marijuana and cocaine. And this is early. Maybe it wasn't cocaine. It said uppers. So I'm assuming these are probably pills at this point. Like speed. Yeah, because 67 is a little early for cocaine. But they are...

The Waterloo Gacy's did it down, y'all. He was taking mad money. He could afford it. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. He made amazing money. He lives a very good life. He's got a good neighborhood. He's managing a couple stores. So if you've ever worked in a place where you've got a manager who manages many stores, you're like, you know this motherfucker takes a two-hour break in between going to each store. This son of a bitch is easy. I think Gacy was very much one of those. Gacy continues to ramp up in August of 1967, commits sexual assault on a 15-year-old boy named Donald when he got drunk. Stop right here and say that. Another thing I'm trying to do is...

One, I'm not going to name victims if I don't really have to. Two, I'm not really using victims' last names at all anymore. So we're going victims' first names. I'm not sure if I mentioned that in the last episode or not, Greg. I think you did, but I don't remember. So just going forward, you guys will know that. You guys will know that. Greg now knows that he served twice. I'm going to try to leave him out of it. They didn't choose to be involved. Gacy did. He's a fuckface. It says it right up there. Fuckface Pogo. I couldn't do fuckface Gacy because I already used the only two C's I had in fucking face. That escalated quickly. Hey, give me five Q's and two U's. And now he's committing oral sex on 15-year-olds. That's his thing, too.

He's like hanging out with 15-year-olds and being like, you like wine or? Have seven glasses. And then he's like, they're like purple teeth and shit. He's like, hey. You ever had your wiener in a 35-year-old man's mouth? Hey, baby, ever had your asshole licked by a fat man in an overcoat? Yeah, I mean, he's just like, and you think that, oh, he's charming. I'm not going to let him blow me because I'm all drunk on wine. But he pulled this off many times where he convinced young drunk boys to either blow him or allow them to be blowed by him. Yeah, purple-teeth blowjob, of course. He loves a purple-teeth one-eyed blowjob on John Wayne Gacy. A Thursday night. Yes, exactly. So it is said that around this time, Gacy's trying to find new excuses. It's the forward approach isn't just being like, hey.

You want a beach? It's not working anymore. So he's getting to a point now where he's like, okay, he's still sexually assaulting boys, but some of them he's like paying $50 and telling them that it's scientific experimentation. So the fact that they're under 18, period, it just makes it sexual assault. It doesn't matter if they were like, yes, sir, I would love to do that. It's already sexual assault, so we can't be like, why are they agreeing to this? They're also children. At 15, I might have been like, if it's for science, and you're going to blow me, and I get 50 bucks? I guess, whatever. And a bottle of wine? But, I mean, what a... I don't know.

The whole situation is sketchy. He's in the Gacy's and he's a KFC manager. What scientific experimentation is he doing that these kids are like, yeah, you know what? I got you. I got you, John. 50 bucks sounds great. Also, 50 bucks then. Exactly. You come home and your parents aren't like, where the fuck should you get that money from? 50 bucks is like, it's like 400 bucks. Right. Yeah. They were like, hmm. You hide it. You hide it real good because you got a beach for it. That's what, mom. So after seven months, there is one specific young man who is going to tell his father the assault. He's immediately taken to police and Gacy is arrested and denies all the accusations vehemently.

Yeah, duh. Well, yes, I did sexually assault him all. He owns all those KFCs. He's obviously trustworthy. Where am I going to get my biscuits next time? I want my biscuits buttered. Fairly small town, too, so you don't want the KFC to shut down, right? No. So he's like denying it so hard. He's like, give me a polygraph test. Come on, come on. This is the time where people might believe in these. Yeah, polygraphs are not.

he's a psychopath, so he's like, oh, I could beat this. The tests actually come back inconclusive. The polygraph would indicate that Gacy was nervous, but that they could not say for certain that he was lying. Gacy then turned his blame to a political rivalry, as the boy who he abused, Father, had been opposed to Gacy's nomination for president of the local Jaycees. So in case we didn't catch that, his political opponent, who also wanted to be president, had a son. John blew that son. And then after being like, I didn't do it, being like, okay, now they're blaming me because I want to be president. His dad wants to be president. I didn't blow his son, I swear. Classic honeypot. So while he waited trial, he knew that life was about to get rough for him. If Donald was to...

you know, go to court and tell everything, he's going to be in a lot of shit and he's got a lot to lose. So he's out on bail and wants to avoid more trouble, so he enlists the help of an 18-year-old man named Russell to send a message to Donald. In August, before the trial begins, Russell lures Donald into a field before pepper spraying him and beating him pretty severely. Donald immediately tells the police and is able to identify Russell with no problem. Russell would initially deny any involvement in the beating at all, but would later spill that Gacy had paid him to physically force Donald to stop testifying. Cool. This is the kind of like, this is the level of intelligence we're dealing with. He's like, all right, I'm out on bail. Go kick the shit out of that fucking asshole and tell him not to testify. And if he tells the police,

I'll send guys after him. And that's like a threat that I can't do it. That Gacy is going to use like constantly. Like he's like, you guys remember, fuck, what was his name? It's Richard something. Petty. What's that? Petty. Nope. Nope. Famous aerobics instructor. He was a serial killer. Ramirez.

Keep going. Very, like, mob-like. Like, I got guys who will be around if you're fucking with me. Gacy would use that all the time. Like, hey, if you don't do this, I'll make one phone call and guys will be on your fucking doorstep tomorrow. Some people were like, shut the fuck up, John. And some people were like, oh, shit, really? I think if somebody said that to me, I'd be shook. I'd be a little shook. I mean, especially if there's somebody who you believe has pulled like that. Like, if someone puts on the internet, I have your IP address and someone's on their way right now. I'm like, shut the fuck up, nerd. See, I'm more scared of that than I am of somebody going, like, I'm going to show up to your house. Cool, show up to my house, dude. I got guns. Alexa, intruder alert.

The lights turn red, starts playing fucking Fortunate Son. The sprinklers kick on. Why does this smell like gasoline? The house starts self-destructing. Yeah. So Gacy is arrested again, and another charge is added for witness intimidation. During this time, he would have his first psychological examination, and it would reveal that he had a personality disorder and was likely a true psychopath. Someone who is diagnosed as such cannot be treated by medication. I did not actually know that. There is no, like, treatment for true psychopathy. I thought, you know, I'm sure they do treat it. But, you know, if you have, let's say, multiple personality disorders, they have a certain set of medications that are like...

You know, we try to treat it this way, and then we might mix these two. We might do this and do this and do this. For psychopathy, it's like, you're a psychopath. Like, that's... No, man. Yeah, that's what... You're telling me all the cocaine didn't help? Listen, still pretty early for the cocaine. All the ghosts... I'm assuming that's what psychopathy is, just ghosts in your blood. Ghosts in the brain, ghosts in the blood. They should have just asked the serial chillers. We would have told. Get some leeches. I'm basically a doctor. Greg is, for sure. Finally, on November 7th, 1968, Gacy is finally going to plead guilty to one count of sodomy in relation to the assault on Donald, and the count of witness intimidation would be dropped. Question number four.

For how long would John be sentenced for this crime? This one is 250 points to the closest, 500 if you can nail it. 500 because it's a crime. Obviously, we know he didn't get sentenced to 10,000 years or anything. So for how long is he going to be sentenced to this crime? You guys guess at it. 250 points for the closest, so one person's going to get points on this. 500 if you nail it. Four life sentences. And you guys remember the rule, too. If you're both the same distance apart, but on opposite sides, it becomes Price is the Right Rules. For how long will he be sentenced? Slewis says, question first. Oh, my God. Do we need to specify half years?

You can give it to me however you want. Months, years, however you want to do it. If you think that half a year is going to be the difference, then use it. Eddie, you got an answer right now? Two and a half years. Two and a half years. Louis said 18 months. Eddie's going to get 250 points because John Wayne Casey was sentenced to 10 years in Anamosa State Penitentiary. Damn. I know. So wait, hold on. Who got the points? Eddie, 250. I was way under. Copy that. That's all the support from Watcher helping me right now. Oh, yeah, yeah. But you're not that far off because he was sentenced to 10 years.

On the same day he's sentenced, his wife is going to ask for and be rewarded a divorce. Also, she has rewarded the house, the children, and alimony. Smart lady. Yes. So, you know, good for her. She's got a house, got her kids. John, after this day, would literally never see Marilyn or his children ever again as long as he lived. Like, for me as a dad, that's fucking crazy to even think about. Like, just one day you've got a wife, you've got kids, you decide to risk it all to blow a 15-year-old, and now you've just been sentenced to 10 years in prison, and you're never going to see your family again. You want to ask my dad about it? Eh, he kind of sounds like an asshole. I don't want to ask my dad.

So remember how I said Gacy does very well when he's given order? Prison is pretty ordered. Gacy fucking thrives. I thought about getting the clip. I think some of us have seen it, but there's a new segment at prison while Gacy's in for this crime of sodomy, and Gacy so quickly becomes a model prisoner. He becomes the head cook at the prison, takes the job so fucking seriously, and that's what this new segment comes in, and it shows. How do you guys want your powdered eggs? Scrambled? Say scrambled. It's gotta be scrambled. I hope nobody likes spices, because there's no spices. But he takes the job. Well, if you pinch and twist, there might be spices. Exactly. He's like, well, I'll give you spices.

I don't want to play anymore. I need an adult. So prison is like a dream for him. He gets his like a great job. He's got a little bit of power because of it. He's a model prisoner. He uses his job to influence the prison in some negative and positive ways. One thing he did was join. Apparently there's inmate chapters of Jaycees. So if there's an inmate who's a Jaycee, they can start an inmate chapter.

It's kind of like, you know, like some inmates go and they're like, well, I just want to get my high school diploma or I'm going to go to college in prison. It's kind of like that. It's like, oh, you know, you're not going to be here forever. I like to imagine all the gang leaders. What's that? All the prison gang leaders. They're like, we need leadership skills. Join the prison JCs. Exactly. Exactly. They are good leaders. That's what I'm saying. That's where they learn. Prison JCs. They're good in the hood. But what I was going to say about being the cook is they did a new segment, like locally, wherever Animal State Prison is somewhere in Illinois.

John was very prevalent in this because he's the head cook and he's talking about how he does because he was like breakfast and lunch cook and then someone else did it and he got to pick his team and run it and everybody's like oh yeah John's a real good guy blah blah blah but he would also like if you fucked with him or did something he didn't like you wouldn't get food that day at breakfast and lunch like you'd have to he got a little bit of power and he ran with it yes exactly I'm glad the guards were paying attention yeah exactly come on somebody's just like hey that's a dumb mustache and then like two weeks later they're like I haven't eaten well and this is like no one was calling him colonel anymore yeah this is like there are over a thousand prisoners I demand respect I own the KFC Realize like spam or not, you motherfuckers. Because it's not going in your eggs. So question number five. John takes the inmate Jaycees very seriously. There are 50 members when he starts. He uses that Gacy charm to grow the Gacy Jaycees. Question number five. Approximately how many more members of the inmate Jaycees was John able to add in his time as inmate president? This is another guess. Only one person's going to score. 250 points for the closest. 1,000 if you can nail it. There are 50 when he starts. I want to know how many more he added to the Gacy Jaycees. The inmate Gacy Jaycees. One more time. Gacy Jaycees. Gacy Jaycees.

Starting to lose meaning. Road. 50 current members. How many is he going to add? Eddie, give me your answer first. You've been hiding it over there. What do you say? 69. Oh, nice. Eddie said they had 69 new members. 266, says Lewis. The points are going to Lewis. Because during his time as president of the Gacy Jaysies and Inmates, John grew the Inmate Gacy Jaysies approximately 600 members to a total of 650 Inmate Gacy Jaysies. He was 16 short. Yeah. Almost there. You would have been real fucking close.

To add to his list of accomplishments while he was in prison, John also got the prison kitchen workers wage increase and a miniature golf course built in the penitentiary's red yard. This also got news coverage. That's a nice miniature golf course, I will say. If I were in prison, I'd be impressed with those facilities. Was the wage increased to 69 cents? Let's just say that it was, yes. They made 33 cents and they got a 36 cent raise. Nice. I am starting to see a pattern. A pool table. What was it? Mini golf course? Wage increase. Balls and holes. That's all I'm seeing. Dog in the bathtub, I believe they call that. I was going to say he seems to be into dope shit except for like the whole...

sexual assault thing. Yeah, there's, oh man, so much more is coming. So John would, both literally and figuratively, John would have his first chance at parole in June of 1969. Now, if you remember, he was sentenced in 68. So this is like one year after he goes in. Totally reformed. I thought the question before was how long? Oh, John would have his chance in parole at June of 69. For those of you keeping count at home, that's six months into his 10-year sentence. He is denied. Think Satan. His next hearing will be May of 1970. So he's got about another year to prepare and look good, be even more ready to be freed into society once more.

During this time, John completes 16 high school classes to get his diploma. Even though he already has a college degree, he now has a high school diploma. So he graduates high school in prison, November of 1969. Got him. The following month, on Christmas Day, his father would die from cirrhosis of the liver. John said he collapsed onto the floor and bawled uncontrollably. He would request a supervised compassionate leave to attend his father's funeral.

And for whatever reason, despite being a model prisoner and only being charged with sexual assault, it wasn't like at this time he's like some huge mass murderer. Oh, yes. But the prison still, well, you know what I mean, though? No, I know. His dad died. It seems like, ah, fuck, that sucks. You know, yeah, he's a criminal, but we'll take him to the... I was almost going to feel bad for him, and then I remembered who he was. Yeah, yeah. Well, and it's the supervised. Like, I feel like that was shot down by whoever was supposed to go supervise him. Like, what, we got to fucking send a guy out there with him? Yeah, whoever was supposed to supervise him was like, nah, man, I don't want to go. Like, you just got to go stand out there in the cemetery, and this guy sucks. Yeah. He keeps taking away my eggs, man. Keeps saying, hey, how much powder do you want? The regular amount

He gave me a secret sauce the other day. Why is it white? His next parole hearing was pushed back one month to June 18th, 1970. He has now been incarcerated for 18 months or 15% of his total sentence. And his parole this time would be granted. So 18 months was... So I was right. Well, he was sentenced to 10 years. He only served 18 months. He was quoted as saying to another inmate that he would make sure he never returned to prison no matter what he had to do. You'll never take me a lot of copies. Yeah, because that's exactly what I think when he says it.

So he moves to Chicago and becomes a short order cook. He lived with his mother at times and struggled with his schedule because he had court-appointed 10 p.m. curfew that he had to observe because of his P.O. rolled up once and he wasn't home at 10 p.m. He's fucked. So it would only take him about nine months of being on the outside before Gacy is arrested for sexually assaulting a teenage boy at a Greyhound station. Like, the urges are strong with Gacy. Strong. I mean, in most killers, you'll see, like, years in between shit as they're ramping up. Gacy's like, I've been out nine months and I need to suck a boy dick. Oh, my God. And it's, I mean, we're not going to suck pretty much from here on out.

Gacy goes. Can I tell you how glad I am that you said that like straight into the microphone and I got that unclear audio? That is my new ringtone. Yeah, I thought about it literally as I was saying it. It's my new ringtone. So in between these charges. I'm glad that it's, you know, on video too. Yeah, yeah. That's why I did the whole like, I cupped and everything. Gripped the mic and everything. Loving it. Cool. Your teeth okay? Yeah, the record.

In between these charges, John starts his new company with the permission of his parole officer and will begin doing small projects at first, but eventually wrapping up to larger, more complex contractor projects. June 22nd of 1971, Gacy is again arrested. This time he will be charged with aggravated sexual battery and reckless conduct. Nothing came of the first one because the boy didn't show up. It's fine. But remember, he's on parole in Illinois and he's in Iowa now.

Sorry, other way around. He's in Illinois now. He's on parole in Iowa. He got permission to move, started a new company. But the first one, he was still there, right? Well, no, because he was with his wife. The one he gets arrested for and goes to prison for, he's in Waterloo, Iowa at the time. So he moves back to Chicago after getting out of prison.

Okay, June 22nd, he is again arrested, will be charged with aggravated sexual battery and reckless conduct. But the boy who made the claim against Gacy said that Gacy... Oh, sorry. The way that he lured him in was to use a fake sheriff's badge. He got him into his car before forcing him to perform oral sex on him at knife point. These charges were also eventually dropped because the victim attempted to blackmail Gacy over the event.

Oh, okay. No, reverse card on him. Yes, exactly. My, my, my. How the turntables. Judge, this guy's trying to blackmail me, and the judge is like, well, I'm throwing this whole case out. Well, then that makes me so dramatic. You're both ridiculous. Yep, yep. That's a pretty good move, though. That's a nice power move. Oh, yeah? You sucked my dick. I'm not going to tell everybody about it unless you give me $5,000. Neither of these events would ever be reported back to Iowa, so John's parole would eventually lapse, and his past criminal atrocities are sealed.

So, record sealed, baby. Once again, John would attempt to get his life on the right track. With the financial assistance of his mother, would purchase a home. His final home. It was located in Norwich, an unincorporated area of Cook County, Illinois, which is part of Metro Chicago. Gacy was known for being incredibly helpful around the neighborhood right after moving in. Like your classic good neighbor, like moves in. Hey, you need help with the lawn, Tom? Jim, I'll help you trim those hedges up. This is my final home. He's the classic guy. By August of 1971, only two months after his last arrest, he becomes engaged to a woman named Carol Hoff, who was a flame from high school. She and John hit it off quickly again after all these years and would eventually become married. In January of 1972, John's first murder would occur. He is newly engaged, but as they are old-fashioned, Carol isn't moved in yet.

So John's still swinging the bachelor pad. And according to Gacy. There's a large family party, and afterwards, he was bored, so decided to drive to see a display of ice sculptures downtown when he lured a 16-year-old boy from a Greyhound station with the promise of a place to stay and a ride back the next morning. So he gets to talking to this kid, and the kid's like, yeah, I'm just going to stay at the Greyhound station. My bus leaves tomorrow, and John's like, nonsense. I'll show you around Chicago. Want to see some ice sculptures? Yeah, like, essentially, like, I'll give you the tour. You'll see all of Chicago. You know, I'll bring you back. You stay at my house. I'll have to sleep at a Greyhound station. I'll bring you back for your bus tomorrow. Like, the kid's like, stop letting him go to Greyhound station. Exactly. You want a sandwich? This all sounds pretty good, in fact. And so...

We can get a sandwich. Gacy takes him back to his house after giving him a tour around Chicago, showing him all the sights, you know, that giant reflective bean or whatever, Wrigley Field, Soldier Field, you know, a bunch of places where a whole bunch of sports teams don't really win stuff. The boy's name was Timothy, and John's confession, he doesn't say that he slept with the boy, but does claim to have awoken to the boy in the doorway holding a knife. So he wakes up the next morning, the kid is... in John's bedroom doorway holding a knife. And John's like, what the fuck? John immediately goes under the defensive and a scuffle breaks out between them. And like, as he rushes him, the knife cuts John on the forearm. So it freaks him out even more. He gets the upper hand, gets the knife, repeatedly stabs Timothy in the chest.

Timothy's on the floor gurgling, clearly dying. John goes into the bathroom, washes the knife off, walks out to the kitchen to get things to clean it up. And there is bacon's been fried. The eggs are out. Eggs are started. And Timothy likely was just absentmindedly standing there letting John know that he had cooked breakfast for him. And John's first murder was thinking that he was going to get murdered by Timothy. That is like...

The abuse, two and four. That is, like, literally number four on my irrational fears list. Yeah? Yeah. No, but a similar situation. Like, the zombie apocalypse breaks out, and I'm, like, trapped in an alley, and I gotta murder this zombie with a trash can lid or whatever. And when I'm done, a bunch of people come up, and they're like, yo, that wasn't a zombie. That guy's just on drugs. Why'd you beat up that homeless guy? Don't go to Florida, then. Yeah. Right. America's Wang. Flo Rida for the locals. Yeah, exactly. Flo Rida. So, eventually, John gets the upper hand, stabs him to death.

He suspects Timothy is dying at his feet when he hears the phone ring and takes a phone call with a gurgling Timothy on the floor. You'll have to speak up. I'm wearing a towel. John said that while he stabbed Timothy and listened to him gurgle for breath in his last attempts for life, the sounds made him experience, quote, mind-numbing orgasms, and quote, that's when I realized that death was the ultimate thrill. Seek help. If that sounds hot to you, seek help. So just after or while he lay there dying, John would walk out to the kitchen and see the breakfast.

Carol and John would eventually marry in July, and at that same time, she and her two daughters from another marriage would move into Gacy's home at 8213 West Somerdale Avenue. Around this time, John's business, PDM, has grown enough that he can leave his job as a cook and focus on his full-time work. So he obviously lost his KFC jobs. His father-in-law didn't want him to do it anymore, so he's a short-order cook out of prison. That's not his father-in-law anymore, either. What did he do with PDM? What did PDM do? PDM stands for, I believe, I think I have it here, is for painting, designing, and maintenance. Okay. I mean, it's general contracting. Like, if you do a remodel, he'll do it. Originally, it says that he starts, like, with a much smaller role. He was doing, like, contracting. Yes. And so by the end, he's going to be...

I wanted to make a joke, but I wanted to make a smart joke, and the joke wouldn't have worked, so I'm glad I called an audible. I just asked a question instead. So around this time, John's business is blowing up. In 1973, he takes one of his employees to America's Wang to... That's funny that we say that, because I actually wrote that in here. In 1973, he takes one of his employees to America's Wang to see a property that he... America's Wang went to Johnny to see John Gacy's Wang. So yeah, John bought a property in America's Wang. He takes one of his employees there to check it out. John fully takes advantage of him while he is alone in the hotel room and rapes his employee.

The employee later would take revenge and go to John's home and beat him relentlessly in his own front lawn. And John explained it to his wife by saying that he had refused to pay the young man because of the work he had done with Shadi. So, really, he rapes the shit out of a kid. The kid comes and beats the shit out of him. He's brutalized. Yeah, I didn't pay him because he worked bad. And his wife's like, oh, bullshit. How terrible. Let me fix your wounds for you. Definitely wasn't because I sexually assaulted him yesterday. So, another thing about John Wayne Gacy's hiring practices at PDM is that he would hire most exclusively young men and high school students with blonde to light brown hair that were also smaller of stature. Not smaller because they were juniors in high school. Like, four juniors in high school, they're smaller guys. I hate that he has a type. He has a type, and it's like a predator. Like, he's like, oh, I need the smaller and the weaker ones. That's what I need.

And I also really like light hair. I hate it. John claims his second murder takes place around this time, and the victim is yet identified and unfortunately unlikely to be. So in the end, we'll find out that John has several victims that they find the body of that we may never know who they were. John said that after killing this boy, he hid him in a closet from his wife and stepchildren, and he leaked fluids from his nose and mouth. This is when John's killing teaches him something. He starts to do stuff.

all of the holes of the bodies with tissues or cloths or whatever you can find so they don't leak in the future. Remember his mortuary days. Yeah, what's funny is he didn't learn until now that they leaked. The shop rack budget is through the roof. And so between 1974 and 1978, he's going to be known to host giant barbecues and themed parties in the neighborhood. Some of the parties were attended by as many as 400 people, including people from their adjoining neighborhoods, local politicians and celebrities and family members. That's crazy. I don't know 400 people. Well, I mean, neither did he, but you say, hey, invite everybody, have your co-workers come, blah, blah, blah. It's like a giant block party. And Gacy's like...

the guy who does these. By 1975, John was told, John told Carol that he is bisexual. Although taken aback by it, she's like, it's swinging 70s, baby. Let's fucking do this. She's got a boyfriend on the side. Yeah, yeah, why not? Around this time. Love is love, man. True, true, true. Exactly. John, around this time, John would also join the Jolly Joker Clown Club, a group of individuals who dress as clowns and do fundraising, events, and hospital visits. More like fundraising. Ha ha! Question number six. We all know John Wayne Gacy's famous clown alter ego, Pogo the Clown.

But he had another alter ego that he did almost equally. I don't know why Pogo became the famous one. Because of the picture. Because it's creepy. Question number six.

What was the other clown persona John adopted? Is it A, Hoppy the Happy Clown, B, Pants, C, Patches, or D, Mr. Jingles? I'm not going to lie. The name Pants is just amazing. Hoppy the Happy Clown, Pants, Patches, or Mr. Jingles? What did you say over there, Pants? I hope he... No, I don't want a nickname. Nope, too bad. You don't get to give it to yourself. Come on. Come on. Oh, man. You are going to pay for this. You want to come to my barbecue, dude? Are you going to... Never mind. All right. Lewis, what do you think?

It says C. Patches. D. Mr. Jingles put 250 points on Slewis' total because, indeed, he was known as Patches. You are not my supervisor. We'll talk a little bit more about why he's Patches, but we're going to take a little stretch break for us here, for you guys there. Who knows what you guys will get. Maybe some music or something. I don't know. Greg does the editing. You're not even going to know we took a break. Because I'm going to say, come back or we'll kill you. I'm just going to put that in there somewhere.

You're feeling fucking weird in your tummies and your balls. All right. So we were talking about John becoming a clown, Patches. I didn't really go into it too much. It's not really a significant portion of his life. It was just like something that people really glommed onto. Because clowns are creepy and you kill people. Right, right, right. And yes, I don't disagree with that. I just like, after, you know, doing a week's worth of research, diving really deep into John Wayne Gacy, I was like, man, this is like such a small portion of who he was. But nevertheless, he is Pogo the Clown to a lot of you. How deep did you go into him? Say that again? How deep did you go into him? Oh, I mean, he's dead, so it was really easy to get real far, but I mean.

I'm just a janitor now. Bought a bunch of rags. I learned about leaking. Don't say it like that. Leaking. So on Mother's Day of this year, so John has also said to his wife, I'm bisexual. She's like, I guess it's all right. And he's like, oh, all right, cool. So on Mother's Day, he would have sex with Carol. And then afterwards tell her, that is the last time I'm ever going to have sex with you. I hope you enjoyed it. Because I did not. Not immediately trying to leave John. She would, you know.

Like, okay, maybe this is a phase. She felt like the relationship could still work. Maybe she felt like she didn't have anywhere else to go. For whatever reason, she's still there. John stayed true to his word and did not sleep with her, but she did notice him bringing home lots of young men and taking them into the garage with him. John would also spend most nights away from the home with the excuse that he was working late.

John's political career has not yet wavered either. It's about this time where he is named the director of Chicago's annual Polish Constitution Day Parade, and he will do this until 1978. This director role is the reason we have that famous photo of John Wayne Gacy with former First Lady Rosalind Carter. Oh, he took a picture with the president and the wife and shit. Like, how? He got a sodomy charge. Well, because he was into politics and was the...

Coordinator for the Polish Constitution Day Parade. You hear that, kids? If you have a felony, it's all right. Just get into politics. Bing, bing, boom. The director role is the reason, yep, yep, yep, yep. Gacy was aware of an injury. I skipped too far there. In 1975, Gacy's going to hire a man named, a 15-year-old boy named Anthony. It's not a man. It's hard. Sometimes I'll be like, a man. And I'm like, oh, yeah, he was 15 years old. That's not a man. Oh, yeah, I don't want you to know. What if he'd been mitzvahed? Still not a man. Still not a man.

In the eyes of the laws, you know, at least he's not a man. So Gacy was aware of an injury to Anthony that he had gotten a few months into his employ. So this kid gets hired. He gets hurt off the job. And Gacy's like, we talk about like a predator. He's like, oh, he's hurt. Heads over to his house with a bottle of wine. Yeah, he's just fucking got a raging clue right now. So John goes to Anthony's home, gets him drunk on wine, and then puts a pair of cuffs on him. He says, let's make your teeth purple. Anthony's isolated quickly. Yep. Well, because I think he's realizing now that like cuffs make it easier for him, you know. But Anthony's able to slip his hand free from one of the cuffs while John leaves the room for him.

When John returned, Anthony, a high school wrestler, even with a hurt foot, attacks, pinning John, got the key from John and put the cuffs on him. At this point, John is panicking and tries to escape. When he realizes he can't, he tries to strike a deal and asks Anthony if he can just leave and they can forget about all of this. Anthony actually... agrees to this release and on the way out told John told Anthony that he was truly impressed by the fact because not only was he the first person to get out of the cuffs but he is definitely the first person to get one of them on Gacy himself. So he's like telling him like you're not the first person I've done this to but you're the first person to do that. Yeah like gives him a whole new like oh now I need you to get out. So this has like he gives off Leonard Lake vibes where like he feels like he wants to feel like a badass and so when like when something like that happens he's like oh the student has become the teacher like.

I was trying to train you. Turns out you know what you're doing. You're welcome, Charlene. You know what I mean? That's what John Wayne Gacy feels like. I feel like he's just sticky all the time, too. If you were to touch John Wayne Gacy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dewey's good. I like that. I'm like Reese from the KFC. It just comes out of my pores. It happens when you sign up. Carol is still very much in love with him, but she wants to know how she can...

get him back so she does a little snooping around and try to find like a way to connect with her husband and it's at this time she starts to find a whole bunch of things that just don't make sense to her men's wallets stacks of gay pornography articles of clothing that are clearly not john's underwear that like would never fit him in a million years because look at his fat fucking face on that photo he's not a small man but he did say that he was bisexual she did say fine whatever go off so this shouldn't be that surprising for her i don't think it's that shocking i think she was out there like you know just looking for a way to connect and didn't realize she would stumble upon, you know, like direct evidence, I guess. Yeah, to be fair. Yeah, to be fair. He did say bisexual. He didn't say I'm gay. Yeah, that is true as well. But he also did tell her, hey, look, I'm not fucking here anymore, so. Yeah. Listen, Carol, you needed to be blonde. You needed to be a thin young man. Why weren't you those things, Carol? You stupid bitch. You had your chance. So there's a time when John finds that Carol has incorrectly balanced their personal checkbook.

and a rather large fight breaks out. The greatest sin. Yes. After this falling out, Carol would ask John for a divorce, and he would accept this term. However, for some time, Carol and her daughters would remain living with John until they could get things figured out. John was fine with this, but did not alter his new behavior for the sake of them, and in July of 1975, a PDM employee named, also named John, disappeared, and his car was found with his wallet and keys still in the ignition.

According to the witnesses, John had challenged Gacy. That was hard. Little John challenged Big John about some backed pay. Little John would even tell his father about this. When the boy had been missing a few days, the father calls Gacy and explains that he is very sorry.

Sorry. Father calls Gacy. Like, hey, my son's missing. I think the last time I heard about it, he was going over to you. Gacy's like, oh, man, I'm really sorry about that. I'll help you look for him, but I don't know. Where could he be, you know? Definitely not in my soft drawer. That's wild. I'll keep an eye out. Yeah, exactly. I'll come over there and help you look right now. You want to help? I'll help you right now. Later, John would tell a story that he says he came across. Little John, who was waving him down after a conversation with Pace. So Little John was like on the side of the road, saw Big John, was like, hey, pulls him over.

Big John's like, hey, why don't you just come on back to my house? We'll talk about it. You know, let's just let bygones be bygones. I got some wine. We'll just hang out. So they do it, and a younger John is like, hey, you know, like, maybe this guy's not that bad. Like, he'll pay me. You know, he's obviously, like, hospitality's here. And Gacy says, like, hey, I want to show you a magic trick. You like magic tricks? And nobody has seen The Dark Knight yet, so nobody knows it like that line. You should always say no to it. So Gacy said the trick required the young John to be handcuffed, and the young John agreed. While his band...

While his hands were behind his back, Gacy says that he sat on the kid's chest for a while before making him perform acts of sex, then eventually killing him and burying him under the garage. So that was one of the two main ways Gacy would kill. I don't describe all of them because, first of all, it's too fucking many. Second of all, they're all almost exactly the same in some way. One is that he's going to restrain them some way. It's usually this way. Hey, you guys want to see a magic trick? He hasn't really, like, come off as nefarious to any of them at this point. It's like, oh, fuck, yeah, sure, I'll do a magic trick. You know, like, if you semi-trust something like your boss, like, oh, you want to see a cool magic trick? Like, maybe. As soon as this comes out. You might let him throw some cuffs on you. As soon as this comes out.

Street magicians are going to be hard up, man. They're going to be like, hey, can I show you a magic trick? Get the fuck away from me! Yeah, you're just trying to murder me. No, man, I got a TikTok channel and everything. So, Gacy's main ways are going to be, literally, he would just sit on their chest until they suffocate and die. The other way, he would use a...

a rope or string and a hammer and you put it around their neck put the hammer through you create a grot with it and then twist until it got tight enough and then you could just it takes minimal effort you've probably heard Edmund Kemper be like oh it's really hard to strangle somebody with your hands seven minutes or something like that you just twist it tight enough and hold it there and they're restrained too by the way so Gacy had perfected his form at this point. Pretty much a master of the craft. Gacy had planned to bury John in the crawlspace, but the reason he did it in the garage is his wife and stepkids came home early. So he hid the boy in his garage and later decided to bury him under the concrete floor where he had already dug out a trench for digging a drain. So he had this drain that they were going to put in the garage. He's like, fuck, where do I put this? Oh.

That's probably what he said every time he had a boner, right? Yeah. Okay, so the plans for the drain had to be scrapped, but Casey was in the clear once again. The divorce is finally final, and Carol and her children are going to move out. This will begin what John will refer to as the cruising years. During these years, John has the house to himself. Just even if he wasn't a serial killer, that is the creepiest shit. The wife and kids are going, I'm going to cruise. If one of my friends started referring to a chunk of his life as the cruising years, I would stop being friends with him. Well, Jesse, now you know how to get rid of hell, Greg. Oh, I've known this whole time. Just wait for the right time to drop it.

Yeah. I actually owe him a bunch of money, so I can't leave. I was going to say, he's under my employ. It's indentured servitude. I'm not sure if it's legal, but we don't really talk about it. So, again, you murder somebody and your family comes home early, but you just so haven't had a trench already dug body size. So it's like serial killers are some of the luckiest motherfuckers, too. Like, if they just bought a lottery ticket, they might have, you know. Or they're just opportunists. Or they would just be the richest serial killer ever. Or they'd just build a castle. That's true. That's true. But, like, most people would see that trench and be like, oh, that's for a train.

Like, I can't put anything else in there because that's my drain. So you're saying John Wayne Gacy is a genius. No, I'm saying he saw a trench and he was like, I gotta get rid of this body. I know, I have a trench. When opportunity comes to knocking. Yeah, he's just an opportunist. So the cruising years are going to begin. During these years, John has the house, the business, and all the free time he wants to allow himself. He's still doing pogo patches work and being helpful. And pants, just for Greg. And he's still being helpful in the community, politics, and with the Jaycees. But neighbors do say that after the divorce, John would never be the same again. Some neighbors say he would begin acting erratic, only hanging out with young men. And one neighbor even said that occasionally she and her son would be awakened by the...

sound of muffled screaming, shouting, and crying coming from the direction of John's property. And no one at any point was like, what's up with this guy? He seems real suspicious. The neighbor said these noises periodically wake she and her son up over the course of a few years. What the fuck? I wrote it in caps because I was pissed too. I was like, you don't tell anybody until afterwards? I mean, I'm watching, what was it, scary movies, true crime, all that stuff back then, right? Yeah. I'm generally keep my mouth shut and my head down, like as long as it doesn't affect me. But if somebody's screaming for years, like. Come on now.

I gotta do something. Maybe. Just like throwing an anonymous call out there. Oh, wellness check. At the very least, at the very least, I'm going to knock on their door and be like, you're all right, man. No, I'm not going to. I mean, I want to make sure you're okay, but I don't want to die over it. Listen, I don't want to. I'm not going. I don't want to come off as like aggressive here, but you got any handcuffs and whine? I'd rather be an anonymous hero. Listen, if you don't have children, you don't have a wife, why are there men, young boys, going to your house? Who doesn't prefer the company of men?

Men. Men being the key word there. Yeah, they're boys. They're mostly boys. That's fine. Do what you want to do, but don't do boys. Yeah, yeah, it's true. So Lewis has a point. So one month after the divorce, Gacy abducts and murders 18-year-old named Daryl. He was last seen alive April 6th, 1976. Gacy buried his body in the dining room of his home in the crawl space. The body would be found with cloth stuffed down its throat to silence him and prevent leaks after death.

On May 15th, a boy named Randall goes missing after a dental appointment. Additionally, in 76, a 14-year-old boy named Samuel goes missing. This boy was a close acquaintance of Randall, whom he had just learned Gacy killed. So, he learned because he scooped out Samuel and killed him, too. Some believe they died on the same night. They were found buried together, so it's believed that Gacy knew that they were good friends. It is thought that the two likely died on the same night, and possibly together. June 3rd, Gacy kills a 17-year-old Michael who was traveling from Chicago to Waukegan.

Gacy strangled the boy with a ligature, which will become one of his favorite tools. Another identified body in the end was that of a boy named William, who, according to forensics, was the first of a group of four boys killed between June 13th and August 6th of 1976. In early August, a Minnesota youth calls his home frantic, but is cut off quickly. The boy was later found dead of suffocation and buried in John's crawlspace. God, and that's like, at the time, there's no caller ID. Well, and that was just... Star 69. That was just it, is many people believe that boy was calling from John's house.

That's what I'm saying. Like, he had gotten out, called home, oh, shit, click, and then he was found, next time anybody heard anything, I'm found in a crawl space of John Wayne Gacy. Was that, like, what, four kids? He said, at least? Four kids in a span of, like, a couple weeks. Yeah, he's there. Once Carol left, yes, the cruising years are like...

Like, if last podcast kind of coined berserker mode, I am now going to coin, when this happens from now on, the cruising years. Because anybody who... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't quite sound... It just rolls up the tongue nicely. Thanks, John Wayne Gacy. Never thought I'd say that today. So, again, the phone call may have come from inside of John Wayne Gacy's home.

The boy was later found dead of suffocation, buried in John's crawlspace. In November and December, two more people would go missing, one of which was a PDM employee whom John had hired to dig trenches in his crawlspace under the guise that they were being dug for drains. So this employee told his sister, I'm working for Gacy, blah, blah, blah, in his crawlspace, digging these trenches. And apparently, one time he was digging and started digging in the wrong direction, Gacy fucking went off on him. So, you know, now we're like, oh, shit. At the time, he's like, oh, I just wasn't working right. The one who dug trenches... Listen, anytime somebody just unravels out of nowhere, we're like, red. I don't even like to say every episode.

Just very fortunate. Maybe a foot, two feet. Might be rap standing there, but... Kills Gregory, the one digging the trenches. Buries him in one of the trenches that he dug. The family's going to reach out to Gacy. And Gacy's like, oh yeah. Because remember, he's an employee of his. He's like, yeah, Gregory said he was going to run away. He probably did that now.

We were just so close that he disclosed that to me. That's so fucked up to me. The family calls. Our son's missing. He's like, yeah, he said he was going to run away. So he probably did that. Did you check there? And so Gacy also says that he received a message on his answering machine from Gregory saying that he had done so and he had gotten to his destination safely. When the family asked to hear the tape, Gacy claimed to have erased it. I got there. Why do I need to keep that message? That was pretty much his logic. Oh, I sat on it. It's not sort of on a cloud somewhere? God damn.

I sat on him. I mean it. By January of 1977, John has a PDM employee living with him named Michael. In late January, Gacy lures a 19-year-old named John under the false pretense of buying his car. Gacy's going to murder like three dudes, also named John, by the way. Weird statistic. So you tell this kid, everyone was fucking named John. Everybody knows there were less names back then. Yeah. John, Michael, Paul.

All of them. Jingleheimer Schmidt. Hey, his name's my name, though. Dang. He calls his 19-year-old over under the false pretense of buying his car. Gacy would eventually strangle the young man in a spare bedroom while Michael, his new roommate and employee, was home. He would later sell the car he was trying to buy from the younger John to Michael for $300.

The next month, PDM employee and Gacy's tenant who purchased the car from Michael is caught stealing gas, and the plate is noted by the gas station attendant. The vehicle is tracked back to Gacy's home, where he tells police that it was sold to him one month prior. So he's like, yeah, it was that kid's car. He sold it to me. Do you have a bill of sale? What are you bugging me for? Well, I don't know what he had. Has it been registered in your name, Mr. Gacy? I think it had been, actually. I'm like, what's going on with that roommate? Because if the neighbors for years could hear the screams, you're inside the house. So due to length, I did not go into a lot of the theories surrounding John Wayne Gacy having accomplices.

There are theories. You could do your own research on that. There's plenty to do if you like. Maybe they were poinking, too. Hear that? You got homework. Yeah, so you guys are there, too. Just know. And the same thing, too. I got to a point, and I was like, oh, man, I can't cover the trial as in-depth. It's like I kind of want to. This isn't a court procedure show, so I'm just going to kind of blow through it. But this could have been easily a 30-page outline, and I had to cut it off by 18. But I don't disagree with you. I think that Michael knows a lot more. But anyways, the police checked the VIN, realized that it is the correct car, but they have no way of proving that it's stolen. They told the younger John's parents that he had sold his car, and Gacy has pursued no further for the crime.

Throughout 1977, Gacy will stack up another seven kills, all with similar MOs. A young man in need of work and a place to stay has given as much alcohol as needed, quote, shown a magic trick and then struggled with a garrot or suffocated by a fat boy sitting on their chest. Fat boy, not man. Let's emphasize that. I mean, for sure, mentally, that's the capacity he's working with. Men don't do that. Yeah. One of the 1977 victims found in Gacy's crawlspace was the son of a police sergeant that lived only four blocks away from Gacy. For some reason, on December 30th, 1977, Gacy abducted a 19-year-old student named Robert from a Chicago bus stop at gunpoint. This is, as far as I know, the only time that Gacy's used a gun. Usually, it's like a very willing, hey, you want, you know, I'll get you a worm and you can stay in my house. Like, that's his whole thing, too, when...

When it's all said and done, like at the end, he's like, everybody who came into my house came into my house willingly. I didn't force him. This one might have been one way. They all wanted to be there. I mean, and truthfully, they did because Gacy was that guy. He hired younger guys who couldn't really get good work. And the thing, too, is like, we'll see a little later, is that any other work that you could get at 15, 16 was going to pay you like $1.75 an hour. And Gacy paid five bucks an hour. Back in my day, that was enough. Yeah. So it was like Gacy not only was charming, was known for being very helpful in the neighborhood. He paid like three times what you could get working at the grocery store or working, you know, a paper route or something. So.

Perhaps a red flag, perhaps something you look into next time someone offers you way too much money to do something. Or to see a magic trick. True that. So he took Robert to his house after forcing him there, raped and tortured and beat him repeatedly. At some point, he takes Robert into the bathroom, drowns him, revives him, drowns him, revives him, and did this up to six times. My God, that's fucking awful. Yeah. Robert was in so much agony at some point that he asked Gacy to kill him, to which Gacy replied, I'm getting around to it.

After a few more hours of this, Gacy puts Robert back into the car and drives him to the bus stop and tells him that even if he did tell anybody, no one would ever believe him. So don't even try it to the police. First of all, I mean, like, look, I'm glad this guy made it out. But what the fuck? Why is this the dice he's willing to roll this? I'm like, you better not tell anybody. I think because it didn't scratch that itch.

Like, everybody else came in willingly. But I guess that's what I'm saying is, why didn't he? Oh, I see what you're saying. Everybody else wanted to be there, so it was more of like a scripted event where he had like, come on in, this is this, this is that, this is the plan. Want to see a magic trick? Oh no, you're dead. Put your hand in the fucking bathtub, motherfucker! Right, this was Brute Force, and I don't think Brute Force did it. You know what I mean? I don't think Brute Force was where he was at with that. It had to be seduction more than the violence. I like your theory, right? I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

I think he liked seeing the dead alive, dead alive. Yeah, that was my thing. He said that earlier, death is the ultimate thrill. So I was like, kill him, bring him back. Kill him, bring him back. Then he takes him and drops him back after he found him. Well, the guy wanted to die. Yeah, maybe that too. It took the fun out of it. It's like when you get ready to fight somebody. And they're like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, they punch themselves in the face. And you're like, whoa, what have I stepped into? Yeah, maybe the first one, what was his name? Thomas? That was cooking him breakfast. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe the thrill of it was seeing him struggle.

Yeah, just the overall process. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what he got off on every time. But isn't that what it is with serial killers is the process as much as it's the kill. Yeah, the process of seeing them struggle. And this guy was like, fuck you. There's process and there's what's the other product. Product. Yeah, like some people want to. He kind of had a little for both, to be honest. He kept all of them just about. He's a man who knows what he wants.

Robert would obviously go directly to the police. Why don't you believe some fat motherfucker that just drowned you six times that no one's going to believe you? You can be like, oh, he lives here and his house looks like this on the inside. You know what I mean? You should probably check under the floorboards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. His crawl space smelled bad. Robert reports the assault. Which one? His ass or the actual? Both. I feel like he's not a competent wiper. Definitely not. It's tough to reach when you're fat. So Robert's going to report the assault, obviously. Gacy's going to admit.

that he had sex with Robert, but admit that they have a relationship of, quote, slave sex, and that they both consented to it. So he's like, oh, Robert wanted that shit. I just gave him what he wanted. So what year is this? This is 1972, I believe we're in now? 77, 77. So 70s. They're not going to question it. Free love, baby. He's founding BDSM. If we think back to, like, Dahmer's thing, too, where the police were like, ew, icky, gay. Like, just, ugh, get out of here. And look at it, it's like, Milwaukee, Chicago. Like, we are not far in time or distance.

From some shit we know that is... Hear that, Midwest? Be a little more progressive. Well, you guys are doing better now. I should say good. Some of you don't have clean water. Or, you know, racial safety. Yeah, that's true, too. Sorry about that. Sorry. Oh, no, sorry. Sorry about that. So, I don't know. He's getting so brazen now, right? Like, he's letting people live. Yeah, he's like, fuck it. You go tell us. I fucked him. He wanted it, though.

Did he tell you that part? Yeah, exactly. So he told police that he was likely being reported by Robert because he hadn't paid the money that Robert wanted after the sex. So he said his story in long, in short is the classic tale is I invited Robert over. I fucked him. He wanted me to pay him. I told him, fuck you. And I dropped him off because that's what we do. Slave sex, bitch. And the cops are like.

Yeah. All right. Cool. We don't want to touch that. I don't want to do this paperwork. Just leave. That was pretty much it. What a time. Yeah, yeah. He told police that... Nope, sorry. It wasn't that long ago. Casey would kill one more for the crawl space in mid-February. This victim was the fiancé. Pun intended. Once he got out of the closet, he started running out of the room. He did. That's literally... And he's stacking them, too. Well, and he murdered his trash digger. Yeah, that's true, too.

So he would kill one more for the crawlspace in mid-February. This victim was the fiancé of a woman he knew. He was also strangled and buried in the crawlspace. In March, Gacy lured a 26-year-old man into his car before using chloroform to render him unconscious. He took the man, whose name is Jeffrey, to his home and put him in a device similar to that of a pillory. You know, like stockades? Yeah. So in this one, his neck doesn't go in, but it's got a board that goes around his hands and holds him up like this. And he has one for his feet, too. So it's a little torture device that you just turn... Yeah, but it doesn't crank open. He's hanging up and his feet are attached to the bottom, so he's just hanging there as a... So I gotta ask, though, like...

I gotta answer. Chloroform. It doesn't work like it does in the movies. No, but it does work if you hold it there for 30 or 45 seconds. Right. You don't just, like, cover somebody's mouth and they pass out. Plus, if you hold it there long enough to, like, incapacitate somebody, they get, like, burns from where the rag was. John don't care about that shit. No, I'm just saying, like, chloroforming somebody sounds good in theory, but, like, it doesn't work out like it does in Ace Ventura. But doesn't John sort of seem like a fucking mall ninja? Like, he seems like the kind of guy that would go, like, okay, so I've done this, I've tried this. I'm gonna do chloroform now. I saw it in a spy film. You know what I mean? Gun was too easy. Yeah, like, I don't know.

The Paul Blart of his time, if you will. Yes. Peanut Blart and Jelly. It's probably easy to get. Let's say that again. It's probably easy to get, too. Yeah. It's like one of those things where I just went to the pharmacy and I was like, let me get two gallons of chloroform, my good man. They're like, two gallons? We got a special on four, John. Well, pack it up, then. Don't forget the rags. He had plenty. So.

He took Jeffrey back to his home and put him in the pillory. He then shackled his feet and told Jeff how he now had complete control and then raped and tortured Jeff for several hours, as well as chloroforming him in and out of consciousness. Gacy would chloroform him one last time and then take him and dump him in Lincoln Park in Chicago. So this is two in a row that he just... tortured for hours. But he liked the kind of in and out of consciousness. Yes, he went from the drowning to chloroform. But he's kind of experimenting with that slave, sex slave idea. There is like a very, there is a Venn diagram of he and Dahmer that get a lot more overlap than I think people realize. It was Dahmer the one that was trying to make the sex slave. Yeah, he was going for like frontal lobotomy kind of. Yeah, same ideas though, but he's just like, maybe I just rape him into wanting to get raped. Ask the CIA. You cannot rape somebody into being a slave. You cannot drill into their head to being a slave. You cannot...

drug them into being like it was Gomer's idea we took it full force CIA tried it they fucking funded it they budgeted for it you can't do it LSD man they tried so listen to this shit this is probably my most favorite part about the story Gacy knocks him out one more time takes him dumps him at Lincoln Park Jeff managed to make it to his girlfriend's house then together they go and report the crime but he can't remember shit he was chloroformed a dozen times but he remembers a few things the police are essentially like we can't help you based on what you remember if you remember anything else let us know we want to help you Jeff goes full badass because he can remember a few things the car that Gacy drove and the Kennedy Expressway That's it. So he knows an on-ramp near the Kennedy Expressway and the car that he was taken in. So Jeff and some friends begin to stake out this on-ramp over the next month and a half. And at one point, Jeff will see the vehicle and follow it directly to Gacy's address. Followed him home. He tells police, and due to this, police were able to obtain an arrest warrant for Gacy and did so in July, where he would face trial for battery. Finding that his crawl space is full, Gacy thought for a while about using his attic to store bodies, but worried about problems that may pop up involving leakage issues. He was like...

The leakage was a huge thing for him. He was, like, icky. This guy's got to deal with an arrest warrant, and his concern is, where am I going to put more bodies? That is, like, next level dissociative, like... Well, even think about all the way back to when he was a janitor. They're just dead things. No, but I know. That's exactly what you're saying. He was doing that all the way back then. That's just so wild. And it's just now it's worse. He just wants more. He's thinking about that instead of, oh, man, I'm about to be arrested. And we're like, where am I going to put more? We're 20 years down the line from that. So if he's just been doing nothing but escalating, imagine how far it's gotten. And the times that he has been caught, was it the first two where he moved from one state to another? They did nothing about it. Well, and we see that a lot, too. You guys listen to the show a lot. How many times is it like, oh, the cops did this? Or like, yeah, he had a 10-year sentence and did 18 months because he was a really good cook.

It's tough. Well, and his neighbors are hearing this. He had a roommate living with him. But they're not reporting it. They're all telling people after the fact. They're like, yeah, that guy was pretty fucking weird. Just like Dahmer's weird sandwiches. You're like, why didn't you just take it to the police? Like, I don't think, I think this is human. Someone needs to test his meat, please. Right. Instead, they're like, well, I was hungry, so why you didn't? Everybody loves a little long pig. I mean, like you say, every time they're like, oh yeah, that's my friendly neighbor. I never thought he would be able to do this. Right, exactly. He seemed like such a nice guy. Just assume everybody could do it. From now on, you should just assume everyone could do it. Take it one step further. Just assume that everyone's a serial killer. Period. And you guys came here to hang out in a tiny room with us?

Yeah, well, that is bad. I share my location with a select. There we go. You got to roll the dice sometime. So this room is a Faraday cage. So he decided and I had been calling it the Plains, but apparently everybody from here calls it the Des Plains River is where he's going. I swear the documentary, all of the police officers call it the Des Plains River. Well, I'm going to call it the Plains because I want to because it takes less time to say. So the Plains River is where he's like now.

This is full. No room in the crawlspace. I need somewhere. Oh, fuck it. I'm going to dump him in the river. He decides on the I-55 bridge that crosses the Plains River. Gacy would dispose of five victims this way, although only four were ever recovered. Why didn't he go with his backyard? It's full. Not enough trenches. That's the first place they'd look. Well, for me, this is the kind of dude where there is no logic that makes anything he does make any sense at any point. So...

Five victims into the river. They only ever find four. Gacy feels that he could explain it. Question number seven. What reason did Gacy give for one body missing in the river? Was it A, he believed that just fish ate it. B, he thought that some sicko found it and took it as their own.

He said that there may have been some gators in the river, despite common knowledge. Or D, he believed the body had landed on a passing barge. Now remember, this isn't what happened. This is what Gacy is saying he believes. That's so eaten by fish. He thought someone else found the body and just took it for their own. Said that there may have been some gators or believed the body had landed on a passing barge. I want it to be the gators. Again, I'm saying remember, this is not what happened. This is what Gacy is saying happened.

You guys got them? Yeah. All right, what do you say? I'm going to go B. B, he thought that Sicko found it. D. D, he believed the body had landed on a passing barge. Throw those points on Slewis' scoreboard because Gacy would later explain the lack of a body down in the De Plaines River by telling authorities his timing was poor and as one body fell, a passing barge passed beneath. So he says that his deal was like he'd look over one side, he'd look over another and make sure no cars were coming. So in this time, I guess it was dark, whatever, didn't see the...

whatever type of barge it was passing. So he goes from this side to this, gets the body, throws it over, throws it as the barge is coming from under the bridge, and watches it land on the deck of the barge. So he Dave Matthews-ed somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But instead of the contents of his tour bus' bathroom tank, it was a corpse. Yes, but... Nice, but... Nice, real nice guy. There's no, like, there's no report of a barge captain finding a corpse on the deck of their, you know, I don't know if it was like the case of like...

These kids and their damn Halloween pranks. Yeah, or like, you know, the river led out to the ocean, and by the time anybody found it, they're like, I don't know if I'm going to kick it over the side. I have no idea, but that's what Gacy says happened. You're probably climbing on the back of the barge and be like, is this all the trash that I brought with me? You guys ever heard of D.B. Cooper? Because I got a thought. So, again, from what I understand, nobody has ever reported being found in any such way, but Gacy claims to put five into the river. Only four are going to come out.

The final murder is one that is probably the most famous of Gacy's for many reasons. One is that it's the case that kind of finally busts things open. The other reason is because if you watch any piece of media, documentary, anything with Gacy, this is like the case. So for that reason, I'm just going to go ahead and use this guy's last name because it's the one you hear. December 11, 1978, Gacy stopped by the Nissan Pharmacy for a remodeling job that he was bidding on there. While he was talking to the store's owner, a young man named Robert Peast overheard Gacy mention that PDM pays $5 an hour, nearly double what he was making at the pharmacy. He had finished most of his work and told a co-worker that he was going outside to talk with a guy about a job.

Robert would never be seen again, not by coworkers or his family, and it is believed that he would be dead by 10 p.m. that night. Gacy would say that he did all the tricks on the boy, as well as the verbal torture, before strangling Robert with a rope, even continuing to watch the boy die, again taking a phone call. So there's two times in his life that while he's watching a young man die on the floor, he's like, yeah, Tom, nah, we didn't get the floors in today. I think we're not going to be able to handle that until Thursday.

Fuck that guy. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Fuck that guy. You never know. That's why I don't answer phone calls. Because somebody could be talking to you while somebody's dying on the other end. Yeah, exactly that. So we're going to get a little rapid fire with questions towards the end here, guys. We're kind of... We're behind the eight ball on questions. Yeah, well, it's just like... I'm trying not to make questions be like, how many people died? And making the questions less disrespectful, you know, that's got to be the idea. So it's been a little harder to make them. I prefer the disrespect. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely try to leave some of it in. I just try not to point it towards the victims if I can.

How many holes did Casey try to fit? Are we including his own? All of them. He definitely can't reach his own. So the family is going to contact police almost immediately after it seemed that Rob could be in trouble.

In Illinois at the time, the police won't begin to investigate a missing persons case for 72 hours. That's the law. It's like a person has to be missing for 72 hours before they begin investigating it as a missing persons case. This is like Washington. Washington had the, it's gotta be 30 days if they're an adult. Right. Okay, cool. So they'll be dead. Yeah. Thanks. Aren't the first 48 hours the most important? Right. So at the time. That's what that show says. And there is. 60 minutes. Allegedly. Allegedly. A sick ostrich. So Robert Peace's mom goes to pick him up at work that night. He's not waiting outside where he's supposed to, so he goes inside. And the girl that Robert had said, hey, I'm gonna go talk to this guy.

is in there. She's like cashing out her register and Robert's mom's like, where's Robert? She's like, oh, he went outside to talk to a guy. You didn't see him out there. She's like, no, I don't see anyone out here. Oh, weird. Maybe, you know, he went with him or whatever. And so that's when Rob's parents go home and report him missing. You didn't see the Dewey Colonel? I like that name. So.

It didn't take long for police to realize that Gacy was the contractor that Piest had been talking about and the co-worker had mentioned because he was currently doing work on the store at Nissen Pharmacy and had been seen in the store at the same time talking to Robert Piest the same night he went missing. Gacy denies ever meeting with or offering a job to Piest, stating the only contact they had was in the store when Gacy asked Robert where the remodel supplies were. Gacy said he returned back to the store later that night to collect an address book he had left at the store because the owner had called him about it to let him know. According to police, the owner denies any claim of calling Gacy to retrieve anything. Question number eight. A police lieutenant is going to take a special interest in this case. Why? Is it A, he had a son go missing years before, B, his brother was kidnapped when they were children, C, he was trying to become a detective, or D, his son went to the same school as Robert Piest. He had a son go missing, his brother was kidnapped, he was trying to work his way up the ladder, or his son went to the same school. What do you guys say?

You go first, Eddie. I'm going to go with A. A says, Eddie had a son go missing years before. Lewis says the same. Do you guys score together? Do you score none? Doesn't matter, but you didn't score any. Because he took a special interest due to his son going to the same school as Robert Feast. I mean, that would probably. Seems like a weak reason. What's that? Seems like a weak reason. Well, it might have also been a reason to see. Well, I mean, if it can happen to Robert, it can happen to anybody, and your son is anybody. See, I also should have known better than you would ask a question about something previously that you talked about. Should have known better. I know.

You think you know, but you have no idea. He's a professional. He's done this for 106? 107 right now. Not counting between season murder breaks. You think you're a super fan? Not counting the one that you took down, the first 15. Yeah, it does count. So this guy's name is Lieutenant Joseph Kessensack, I think. He had a son about the same age as he's. K-E-Z-E-N-C-Z-A-K. Kessensack?

It's pronounced Kazin Kazak. It's pronounced Krzyzewski. Yeah, that's probably, Greg's probably not wrong. My guess was Krzyzewski. Yeah. Lieutenant Joseph K. had a son about the same age as Peace to attend to the same school as the missing boy.

For this reason, he took special interest in the case, speaking with everyone involved, including Peast's mother, who said he would never run away from home. They were very close and a very happy family. And this is corroborated by, like, everybody. That girl, I left her name out, but she was in an interview in the documentary, and she talks about how Robert Peast, like, was always talking about his family. He was one of those people who was just, like, a homebody. They all got along. They all loved each other. I know it's fucking weird, but some people are like that. Gross. I know.

Fucking weirdos. We're loving your families, idiots. Freaks. Freaks. So since they already knew that Gacy was likely the last person in the store, not like the last contractor who's also a big man who was described, he's like the last person in the store, Lieutenant Joe runs a check on our boy Patches and finds a battery charge and a sodomy charge. He's like, yeah, the records are sealed, but if you're a police officer, I guess, you can look at that shit. I don't know. He sees this stuff and he's like, what the fuck? And then he sees that both are towards children. This obviously piques the interest of Lieutenant Joe. I feel like maybe he doesn't know what sealed means. I wonder if it's like under a certain amount of...

time yeah my thing was my thought was like oh if your job runs a background check they're not gonna see that you're a kid diddler but if the police need to see what you're you've been up to it's all fine and good for them i don't know really how it works and again if you're here for education you're in the wrong spot go i don't know don't email i can't wait to see like someday some point if somebody in their criminology class or whatever has cited us on a paper i'm gonna say that i told them don't i just i just want to see that But I hope the teacher sees it and is like, hey, these guys are good. I'm going to tell everybody about them. What is this? They have a $10,000 a month taking me to Disneyland Patreon tier? I'm a teacher. Obviously, I can afford that. Well, I'm in. What about Baby Blue once I can throw a tear on my face? Why, Eddie? What do you do for work? Not a teacher. So Lieutenant Joe's like, oh, battery, sexual assault on kids? I might need to look into this guy. He and two DePlain's police officers visit Gacy at home, and Gacy told him that they were being rude by bothering him as he was mourning the loss of his uncle.

He said he would come to the station on his own at some times, but right now he's not available and they need to leave. Classic aversion tactics. And let me guess, they walked away. They did walk away. Gacy would show up at the police station at 3.20 a.m., where none of the detectives who needed to talk to him are there, and he's covered in mud from head to toe. Question number nine. Why did Gacy claim to be covered in mud? Was it A, he was just being a good Samaritan and helped someone change a flat tire? B, he was in a vehicle accident himself. C, he just slipped and fell outside. Or D, a car drove by and splashed it on him.

It was all that KFC grace. It was not even mud. It was doo-doo, baby. When you said covered in mud. When you said covered in mud, though, I'm like.

I've changed a tire. It's not a covered in mud kind of job. Well, what if it's like raining and you're on the side of the road? It's a have muddy hands. Maybe the tops of your thighs are muddy because you went... Hey, Greg, if you want to help them deduce, that's fine. But you might be wrong as fuck. I might be. I'm just saying. You guys want to believe in this guy over here? Yeah. Definitely don't look up hella conspiracies at all. Be like my parents and teachers. Don't believe in me. Okay, guys, what did you say? You first.

C. Said C. Slipped and fell. Lewis says the same way. I'm just clumsy on John. Slipped and fell outside. Actually, John said, I was in this vehicle accident. My car went down the side of a bank and I slid all the way down. Muddy all the way. I had to climb out because I couldn't even get my car out. But then how am I going to get my car out? Then he said, I got to get to the police station at 3.20 in the morning to talk to these guys. So I just came straight here. You know what's funny?

He didn't have a cell phone. He did crash his car. It was a rainy night. Crashed it off a road down an embankment that was crazy muddy and it got stuck and it had to be towed out. He pulled that grease man from Family Guy. He's never going to catch me.

So the police would send him away, ask him to return later that day, maybe get cleaned the fuck up and come back at like a normal time. When he returned, he denied any involvement in the Robert Peace case. This is when Gacy makes the claim that the owner of the store called him back there to retrieve the address book, which we and the police know is a lie. Police believed that Gacy may be holding Robert at his home and were able to obtain a search warrant. When his house is searched, it includes a myriad of very specific, very creepy items.

Here's a small list of those things. Several police badges and a six millimeter Brevitata starter pistol. So like a really good looking fake gun. I thought you just really mispronounced Beretta. No, that's when I first read it. I thought it was it, but it's Brev.

B-T-T-A-T-A. Anyway, it's a good-looking starter pistol. I saw the picture of it. It just looks like a revolver. A syringe and hypodermic needle inside a cabinet in his bathroom. Handcuffs. Several books on homosexuality and pedestry. Seven pornographic films. Capsules of anal nitrate. And an 18-inch dildo. What in the wide world of sports is anal nitrate? Amal. I thought you were shocked by the 18-inch dildo. No, that doesn't surprise me. That's rookie stuff. A 39-inch 2x4 with holes drilled in each end. That's the...

Bottles of Valium and Atropine and several driver's licenses were found in a Northwest bedroom. Yeah, I've just been meaning to get these back to the people. I just haven't made it by a mailbox that I can just drop them in for free. I've been finding these on the street. A blue hooded park was found atop a toolbox inside the laundry room. An underwear far too small to fit Gacy was located inside his bathroom closet. That's upsetting. In the Northwest bedroom, investigators found a class of 1975 Main West high scoring engraved with initials JAS. Investigators also recovered a Nissan Pharmacy photo receipt from a trash can.

alongside a 36-inch section of nylon rope. This would begin constant surveillance on John starting December 13th. How was that not enough to be like, I think we're going to search the whole fucking place and probably find something. They did. That's what they found. They just never checked the crawl space. Yeah, they were like, you want to crawl under there? Nah, man. They searched the whole house and found all this shit and took it in as evidence and are working on putting surveillance on him, but to their knowledge currently, they found no evidence that any...

any men are there or were murdered there. They've just found a bunch of weird shit. There's no way that that place doesn't smell like dead bodies. Yeah, he said it's a drain and they were like, oh man, this guy's gross as hell. You want to crawl in his drain? Nah, we'll just say we checked it. Do you want some purple tea? So, constant surveillance. Two teams of two men are set up in revolving 12-hour shifts. And he loved it. He did.

What a boring 12-hour show. I like the man. I like the man for a little KFC. They also take his vehicles while they investigate. Just took him? While they confiscate him under some, you know, whatever. They're police. Police words. Michael, the boy that lived in the home with Gacy, would bring the disappearance of Gregory to their attention because he was like his homie. He worked with him at PDM. He's like, this guy's fucking missing now. Yeah, just this one bothers me. Yeah. And then he thinks that, tells him to look into the suspicious death of another PDM employee who was found to be drowned in the river. Excuse me.

On December 15th, police would obtain more information regarding Gacy's battery charge and finding out that it was Gacy luring a young boy in and chloroforming him over and over. On that same day, Gacy's former wife Carol would mention the... the young John that she remembered, we've already learned that Gacy killed him. He was one of the first murders. The ring that they found led back to another missing boy named John, who we also already know that Gacy has murdered. On December 16th, after three years of being, sorry, three days of being tailed, Gacy starts to become very buddy-buddy with the police, inviting them to dinner at restaurants and for drinks at his home bar, repeatedly denying any involvement. So they're accepting it because they're like, let's get him to fucking say something. We'll go to dinner with him. We'll go hang out at his house. We're two cops with guns. Like, what's he going to do?

So they're just waiting for him to slip up. And he doesn't, I guess, really. But he doesn't try to... like, avoid the conversation. They come in and join him at dinner, and he's like, you know, I didn't have anything to do with this Robert Peace thing. It's not like he just tries to be normal and talk about those giants or whatever. He immediately just gets defensive about, I didn't kill him. You guys are the cops, right? Like, listen, it's me, boy Casey. You think a guy like me would have killed a guy like that. Come on. We want to talk to you about, probably not Robert Peace, right? Yeah, definitely not Robert Peace, because you know what? I have nothing to do with it. So, it's at this point that he's finally getting fed up. It's like four days in. He can tell they don't believe him.

So he goes to a lawyer because he believes that the tail is violating his rights. He then starts losing the tail by breaking traffic laws because he knew that they wouldn't try to arrest him over something so small right now because they're investigating him for something so much larger. They're cops. They can't break laws. Yeah, so they're not going to risk getting him for speeding or running a red light. 1,000 IQ play. So all of the whole time he's being tailed, that's the kind of shit he's doing. Around this time, another of Gacy's longer term and close employees tells police that he has a watch that he got from Gacy that John claims to have, quote, got from a dead person.

Investigators will do a formal interview with this man where they learn more about the car Gacy had stolen from a man that he killed and sold to Michael. Gacy and his attorney are in the process of filing a civil suit against the city for the harassment they believe they are receiving with all of the surveillance. Gacy, on the same day, invited some of the detectives for meals at restaurants several times. At this point, they are trying hard to get a second search warrant and trying to get any information they can. Gacy invites them over, and they knew they needed to find something in that house that would get them another warrant. So there was a stolen TV, and they think the TV in Gacy's room is that TV. So they're like, fuck, we just need to get the serial number. You distract him. I'm going to go in there. So for some reason, he couldn't get the serial number. It's been filed off. Right. On the way back, he stops. Which is reason. He stops into the bathroom.

He says he takes his piss, flushes the toilet, and hears the heat kick on. And so right when the heat kicks on, all this air starts blowing in. And he goes, man. That's rotting flesh. And so the detective because all death has a smell. Yeah, death has like a really distinct smell though It's it's we once I live on a property with a barn the cat died in it and like that smell It'll stick with me for life. It's like almost it's sweet. It's yeah, it's almost sweet. It's very weird. We're like a large animal guys and decomposes it is yeah Yeah

So once the heat was flowing, the smell is undeniable. So they assume they missed the smell the first time due to Gacy having the heat off in the home. So it was cold and there is no airflow. So they didn't smell the rotting flesh, I guess. They know that they're in a race to get another search warrant. Because at this point, like.

They smell rotting flesh, but it is such a big deal that they can't be like, get on the fucking ground right now. They're like, we got to fucking do this right. We got to get the warrant. Can't mess this up at all. Exactly, exactly. He knows that they know. It's that exact situation. And, you know, we talk about it on the show a lot. But he's not going to be able to excavate, like, all of those bodies at this point. But they don't know how many bodies are there. Right, and who knows what. But we talk a lot about, and we see a lot about, like, incredibly terrible police work. I'm not a fucking cop. Listen, all right. I know a lot of people have relatives that are cops, are cops themselves. Yeah, if you were, you have to tell me. I also have relatives that are cops. It's not true.

We see some, like, blatantly poor police work very often when going through true crime stories. And I'm not saying that all of this was great because something was really bad. But we're in a spot now where the police are actually, like, they're nailing this. Like, they are not rushing things. They're collecting it all in a process that is going to allow them to, if this is the case, get a conviction. So good for them. That rotting flesh is definitely a smell that they knew about. So while this is going on, I think John is now knowing that they know more than he thought initially.

But do they know that he knows that they know? That's a really nice candle, bro. Well, all of this shit is going on. They're interviewing David and Michael, who are two of John's closest employees. Michael lives with him. And they're interviewing them together because they clearly know more than they initially let on. And they share that they once did a job for Gacy where they spread lime all over the ground at the crawlspace under Gacy's home. So for those who don't know, lime will accelerate decomposition.

I believe Dahmer did it as well in the bathtub or whatever. He said, if anything gets in there and dies, I just want it to decompose really fast. So that was, they told police that they did that job for Gacy. So Michael would also admit that in addition to the line, he'd been the one who dug many, if not all of the trenches being told that they were for drainage. David would then tell police about Gacy's attempted rape of him in 1976 and gave further details about the crawl space. On December 20th, Gacy would drive to his attorney's office in an incredibly disheveled mood and appearance. He told his lawyer, Sam Amarante, that he really needed to discuss something with him, but needed a drink first. Sam retrieved a nice bottle of whiskey and asked Gacy what was up.

Gacy then grabbed a copy of the local newspaper with the story of Robert Peace on the front page and told Amarante, the boy is dead, he's dead, and he's in the river. Also, like, 30 other people are dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this is the one that he's, like I said, this is the one that's, like, bringing it all to a head, you know? He's finally like, fuck. He's wheeled out so much prior to this, too, that it's like, God, it just feels so good to see him fucking go down.

Gacy then begins to confess to all of his crimes in a rambling confession that lasted into the early hours of the morning. In this case, he would tell Sam that he had been judge, jury, and executioner in the past. He would pass out in Amarante's office due to the alcohol before even finishing all of his confessions. He would wake up the next morning where Amarante wanted to take him to a 9 a.m. psychiatric examination. 9 a.m. psyche, Val. Man, I wouldn't do well in that. Well, essentially, Amarante did not sleep because he's like, oh, this guy's admitted to a bunch of murders. So he just starts calling all of his connections.

Because it's still his client, you know? He's like, all right, maybe he did. Psychiatric evaluation. Maybe we say he's fucking nuts. Whatever. We got to do business here. So he wakes up. Amarante's like, come on, we're going to do this. And John's like, no, I got business to handle. And he just takes off. He drives around.

saying what he knew would be his final goodbyes to many people and telling some of them that he had killed. He stops for gas and hands the gas station attendant some weed and tells them that there are surveillance officers there and they're actually trying to kill him. So at this point, they caught back up with him. They see him hand the weed off to the guy, like point over him. And the guy's like, oh shit, you know, those guys are trying to kill you. And he's like, yeah, you guys are trying to kill me. I can tell you now, as somebody who worked as a gas station attendant.

Always hand them weed. They would then see Gacy driving with a rosary under his chin, appearing as if he was praying. Well driving, that's bold. Yeah, afraid that he might commit suicide, Gacy is arrested for distributing marijuana. So they're like, fuck, he's going to take himself out. They couldn't even get him for sale. They had to get him for a distribution. Well, I mean, because he just gave it to him. They got him for something, at least. While arrested, police tell Gacy they have obtained a second search warrant for his home to search for the body of Robert Peest. He tells them that they're not going to find his body there, but they will find the body of a boy he killed in self-defense buried under his garage. So I think he's trying to be like, oh, go look under the garage. There's for sure I killed a boy in self-defense there. Definitely don't check the crawl space, though, for sure. Nothing in the crawl space. No Robert Peest. No other 22 boys or whatever.

Just look in that one spot. Yes, exactly. Crawl spaces are scary, aren't they? And I like that it's also like spiders and stuff. And remember, it was self-defense, okay? So detectives, forensic experts, and the forensic photographer show up and begin searching the crawl space. It is said that within minutes they are finding bones. A few minutes later, they find even more, and 30 minutes later, they realize that they are uncovering a graveyard of boys and young men.

Gacy is in custody for the marijuana distribution, but is informed about the human remains being found in his crawlspace, and the additional charges of murder begin to be added. And he's like, what? No way she'll say. On December 22nd, Gacy will make a formal confession in front of his lawyers to the police, in which he confesses to murdering about 30 young males. About, eh, give or take. I lost count. He said they all entered willingly, and he refers to some of them by their name, and others he claims to not remember their name or to have never learned it. When asked about peace, Gacy admitted to killing him, sleeping with his corpse for the night, and then disposing of him over the I-55 bridge into the De Plains River.

On December 23rd, police, Gacy, his lawyers, and we're bringing her back, his older sister. I told you guys she was going to get in there again. They go to the bridge so that Gacy may pinpoint all of the areas that he has dropped bodies. There's an extensive search of the crawlspace and river. When it is completed, said and done, the bodies of 33 young men and boys are found and connected to John Wayne Gacy. The trial alone could be a podcast itself. I'm not even kidding. It was long. It was arduous. They tried him for 33 murders at one time. This is huge. And Greg and I were talking about it.

just this trial and some of these bigger trials they might be fun to just cover on their own inside things so this is something that no promises but we might look into covering some of these bigger trials because i tend to blow over them this isn't a court procedural it's a it's hard to understand especially a good portion of our listeners don't live in this country so it's even to assume a lot of this, like I'll explain, assuming a lot of us know, which we do. But if you're not in this country, you're not familiar with legal proceedings. If we do something like that, I want to be able to explain it pretty thoroughly. And I don't even know. So I'm going to have to do some study. But anyway, in a trial that would last over six weeks and have thousands of pieces of evidence involved, the jury would deliberate for less than two hours before finding guilty of 33 charges of murder. How do I fill out this fucking form? Yeah, exactly.

It took him two minutes. They spent an hour and 50. We get lunch. We stay in here for an hour and a half. Yeah. At the time of his trial, it's actually the most people anyone had ever been convicted of killing in the US. Wow. The jury in the sentencing phase deliberated for longer than the trial itself, but would eventually sentence Gacy to death, having the law for capital punishment just be introduced in Illinois only three years prior. Good timing. Yeah. He would have multiple appeals. All right, guys, you're giving me two answers here back to back. Question 10 and 11. They are both open answers. Only one of you is going to score on each of them.

Question number 10, your answer should tell me, how many extra years is John Wayne Gacy going to get due to appeals? If you've noticed, I've kind of taken dates out because these questions make it a little more obvious if I leave them in. So he's going to appeal a bunch. So when they sentence him to death, they give him a date. Here's your death date. This is when you're going to die. He appeals a bunch or a little or a lot. It's a lot. How many extra years of life will he get due to that? Question number 11, your next one, you tell me, in what year?

Did John Wayne Gacy die? So your first answer should be how many extra years did he get in life due to the appeals? The next one should be what year did he die? 10 and 11. God, I was paying attention. I don't even know what year we're in. Well, I stopped a while ago. Remember what Eddie said? I'm a professional. Yeah, fuck you. I'm a professional. It's got to be in the 1900s. The late 1900s. All right. So question 10. Are you fine? I'm just repeating. I do have a question. How many extra years and in what year? Do you have a question? So are we talking about like ballpark, color on TV or no color? Color on TV.

Were laser discs a thing yet? So we're selling the 1900s, awesome. Was this before or after Betamax? So these are the last two where only one of you are going to score. The rest are multiple choice, so now's a good time to get some separation. What do we got? 1,500. Eddie needs to. Eddie could literally tie it up right now if he's closest on both of these. Nope. Slewis could extend this lead out of reach here if she gets up.

How many questions are left? Absolutely. That's another thing about this season. You guys will appreciate working on The Secret Project is every episode will have 14 questions. Perfect. Good. So that's going to start at 107, so get caught up. 106. Plenty of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Plenty of time, as we like to say. Okay, got your answers? Yes. How many additional years? Give me that first. I said eight. Eight additional. Seven. Oh. Got prices righted.

The points are going to Slewis. Okay. Because John Wayne Gacy, you got your answers written down for years, right? Yeah. John Wayne Gacy got an additional 14 years of life due to appeals. So question number 11, your answer. For in what year did John Wayne Gacy die? Eddie, give me yours first. 97. Oh, I said 84. 84. Give Eddie 250 points because John Wayne Gacy died on the morning of May 9th, 1994. God damn it. So he was sentenced in...

I believe it was everything said he was arrested in 78 after his being in prison for a while, then a trial. It was originally 1980 that he was supposed to be killed. 1994 was when he would be. Dang it. On the morning of May 9th, 1994, Gacy was transferred to his execution destination of Stateville Correctional Facility in Crest Hill to finally have his execution executed. He would be allowed to order a last meal and enjoy it with his family in the prison yard. This is his older sister.

For his final meal, John ordered a bucket of KFC. Nice. Fucking yes, dude. Bucket of KFC, 12 fried shrimp, french fries, and question number 12. That was dinner. What was for dessert? Is it A, chocolate cake, B, strawberries, C, banana cream pie, or D, an entire watermelon? Oh, dude, I would have guessed apple pie with cheddar cheese. Chocolate cake, strawberries, banana cream pie, or an entire watermelon. A Midwest classic, Greg. That's what I thought. I know.

He's from Illinois, though, so it could have just been like a bratwurst. $12.50, Eddie. Okay, wow. I think he'd love that banana cream. All right. God damn it. You guys both said banana cream? Yes. No one scored any points here. Go ahead, bro. John Wayne Gacy loved himself a fresh heap of strawberries. Give him a pile of strawberries. All right, smarty pants. You know, for such an unhealthy dinner, he was like, I think we'll be healthy for DJ. Have some strawberries. We'll see if that logic works for question number 13.

That was dinner. That was dessert. What do you have to drink? Is it A, Diet Coke, B, orange juice, C, iced tea, or D, lemonade? I was going to guess Strawberry Fanta. Diet Coke, orange juice, iced tea, or lemonade? It could be argued that three of those drinks are mildly...

Healthy orange juice. It's like fresh fresh squeezed diet coke has diet right there in the name. That's right That's where the joke came from where people are like, oh, let me get 12 double cheeseburgers and a diet coke Okay, so let's what you say see see I see Eddie diet coke Put the points on Eddie's board because he did indeed order a Diet Coke with his KFC 12 fried shrimp, french fries, and pile of strawberries. I think it's a pretty close game here, guys. So here's... There's always an artistic challenge. So that was what, question number 13? That was 13, baby. So, Eddie, you need to get correct question number 14, and Sluis needs to get it incorrect. But you're not going to know what she wrote.

So it's actually worse for you because you just write down whatever he writes down and you're going to win. So make sure you're covering it unless you just love her so much you want to give her the job. So we're not quite done, but we do have one more question. Outside the prison on the day of his execution, up to 1,000 people showed up to cheer for Gacy's death. Very few anti-death sentence protesters held a candlelight vigil. Most of them were there to cheer on the death. Some of the best signs and shirts said things such as no tears for the clown. Ah, got him.

During Gacy's execution, there was a complication with an IV tube and solidification of one of the components of the lethal injection. It is said to have correct the procedure from a four to six. Well, no, no. So it was like, I mean, these two poisons, because I think they use like three to five poisons in lethal injection. And that's like none of them are lethal individually, but because they come together in a way. So you're supposed to do them in like a certain order and they did it in incorrect order. So these two came together and solidified in the tube. Yuck. And, you know, chemistry. And so.

They had to, like, draw the curtains. Because, you know, in the executions, there's, like, a witness hall. So they'd draw the curtains. And this was supposed to take, like, a total of four to six minutes. It took nearly 18 minutes for the execution to be completed. Ooh, I'm surprised nobody sued for, like, cruel and unusual punishment. This would actually lead to an entirely different delivery method of the lethal injection after this. In response to the fact that Gacy may have suffered during his death, the state's prosecutor said, well, he got a much easier death than any of his victims did. I was going to say, I feel like when it's really terrible ones, they should be murdered by however they were murdering people. Ah, Hammurabi, you say. Eye for an eye. Yeah.

sit on him, and then twist a rope around his neck. You have to get a fat boy to sit on him. Yeah, fat boy. And then drown him and bring him back. And then chloroform him and bring him back. I like where all this is going. So this is the one, guys. Question 14. What were the last words of John Wayne Gacy? Is it A, you're killing an innocent man? B, kiss my ass? C, I'm still hungry? Or D, would you really kill a clown?

You're killing an innocent man. Kiss my ass. Make sure you answer different. I'm still hungry. Or would you really kill a clown? I mean, if Eddie hides his answer, he hides his answer. So you guys got him? Oh, I want to hear him again. You want me to do it? I got it this time. You got it? Yeah. A, you're killing an innocent man. B, kiss my ass. C, I'm still hungry. Or D, would you really kill a clown? Eddie, it won't even matter what Lewis wrote if you don't have a correct answer on yours. So tell me what were John Wayne Gacy's last words. I am still hungry.

That he was still hungry. It's Lewis. You don't need to show me your answer. You have won. I feel like you know, though. Did you know? I don't know. Okay. Well, it doesn't matter because today you are the champion of the Serial Chillers podcast. Episode 107. A close one. 1,000 to 1,250. And I didn't keep the score. So if this one's wrong, you guys got to put it on Greg. It's official. I am moving up. The stakes were super high. It was good to see some stakes at. So according to several reports, Gacy's last spoken words indeed were.

kiss my ass before his death would be confirmed at 1258 a.m. on May 10th, 1994. After his death, his body was cremated and after his body was cremated after his brain was removed and given to Dr. Helen Morrison, who had interviewed Gacy many times as well as other serial killers in an attempt to isolate common personality traits in violent sociopaths and psychopaths. So she has a collection of serial killer brains. That's honestly kind of a metal collection. I agree.

Like the heads in the jars on Futurama. Exactly like the heads in the jars on Futurama. Helen would say that at the end, John was a severe psychopath who did not take any responsibility for any of his crimes. Gee, you fucking think. And that's it, guys. That is John Wayne Gacy. That is episode 107. John Wayne Gacy. Congratulations, Lewis. Everybody out there. I did. I came to win, and I did. You did. You did. Showed up on a mission and accomplished it. I think you held the lead the entire time. Yes, I did. I'll say that I'm proud of you. Thank you. I was rooting for you. Sorry, Eddie. Yeah, fuck you, Eddie. I just wanted to see what would happen.

I didn't really have any favorites. Man, it's going to be cold in that hotel room. We're going to San Diego if you know any apartments. Or room for rent, anything of that. As long as it's not a crawl space, I'm pretty happy with it. I've got a trench in my garage. It's for a drain, but if you could live there if you want. Yeah, you'll fit.

Everybody out there, you guys, remember to give us a follow on Instagram and TikTok. It's Serial Chillers Podcast on both of those. If you want to hang out and interact with us and other fans of the show, you can ask us, Lewis and Eddie, join our Discord. We have some fun in there, I would say. Reach out to any of us or any of the ambassadors you see floating around. Someone will get you the link to that. We don't have it sitting anywhere. It's on the Instagram's bio right now. You can get it there. Patreon is in full swing, too. If you'd like to support the show to receive perks, you can go out and donate as little as $1 a month to the cause. You can also get episodes one day early by giving $5 a month. And we have a $10,000 a month tier that gets you tons of merch, but Greg and I will take you to Disneyland, too.

Yeah. So, you know, think about it. You guys can also support by checking out our merch store, which doesn't exist yet, but by the time you hear this, there'll be a link somewhere, so look for it. Check this out. We have some Patreon patrons we'd like to give a huge shout-out to. At the top, Eddie G from San Diego, Brown from Staffordshire, Crystal M, Amanda M, Chris M, Dustin H from Clovis, Lissette H from Parkville, Maura N from Palatine, Lauren N from Austin, Amanda S from Chandler, Alicia or Alicia, either one, sorry, Leanne M from Belgrade, Christina from Santa Monica, and Parker C from Cochran.

Fucking huge thank you to everybody who's on that list. A massive thank you to you guys. I know you're not very long ago. That fucking drive sucks. And it is like six hours in the car. And you get like one stop for gas. And everything else is like, oh, why are we stopping? So thank you guys for making it. Just for little old us. I'm very appreciative. Thank you guys. Sick. Do you have anything you'd like to share? Anything you want to talk about? Anything you want to end with here? Eddie finally got a shout out for Patreon. Yeah, I know. He did. Well, look, it takes as long as it takes, all right? Good things come to those who wait, they say, Eddie. Fair enough. I'd just like to point out, if you do not get a lightsaber, you have to pay that on your own. Listen, listen.

That was for Eddie specifically. We could talk business. And you have to buy me one. Yeah, yeah, Greg too. Let me think if there's anything else. Love Star Trek. Oh, no. Fuck you. You guys know. Any closing thoughts from Greg? Yeah. I guess you get some. Anything about Star Wars? It's not. Well, it will be now. No, so you know how like clowns have to, they have like the clown registry for face paint? Yeah. And you have to like paint your face on an egg. It's got to be like a unique clown paint. Yeah, it's like how you patent your face paint and stuff. You think there's a pogo or a patches or a pants egg?

Like, you think there's just one, like, on a registry and there's some guy hasn't gone in there and was just like, we're going to scramble this one. Most definitely there still is. Yeah, Alex Lewis. I know. That's something I'll have to look into. I'm interested to know. If we find his egg, we'll post it on the social media. I want to look into it and then end this on a freeze frame of me while I don't forget about me, please. Oh, my gosh. And if you're watching on YouTube, just so you know, this is also an audio medium. You can check it out on Spotify or you can find podcasts. If you're listening to it, you can also find us on YouTube.

You can see it somewhere. It's kind of cool. Meh. Well, if nobody has anything else to add. What? Oh, thank you, Eddie. Well, then for Eddie, it's Lewis, and Hello Greg, I'm Tomlin and Jesse, and remember, don't talk to spoilers. Bye.