Bullhorns and Bullseyes

Kristian A. Alomá, PhD — behavioral psychologist, founder and CEO of Threadline, and author of Start with the Story: Brand-Building in a Narrative Economy — returns to Bullhorns & Bullseyes for a second season to answer the harder follow-up question: once you have the customer truth, what do you actually do with it? Tom Nixon and Curtis Hays dig into signal loss, the STORY Framework, and why most organizations let the best insights die in translation. From Nike and FedEx to Peloton and McDonald’s, this conversation is a field guide for anyone who has ever come back from customer research with something real—and watched it get polished flat.N.B.:Learn more at threadline.com and kristianaloma.com.Connect with Kristian on LinkedIn.Takeaways:Signal loss is the real enemy. You can do the research right and still lose the truth at every handoff—brief to copywriter, copywriter to AI—until what started as something real comes out sounding like everyone else in the category.Your brand is not the hero. If your marketing centers on how great you are, there’s no room for the customer in the story. The relationship doesn’t go far from there.The STORY Framework: Struggle → Tool → Objective → Reward → Yearning. Most brands start at Tool and skip Yearning entirely—but Yearning is where loyalty lives.Build the hymnal. A documented, organization-wide source of customer truth is not a slide deck. It’s the guardrail against drift, the creative brief anchor, and the only thing that keeps the whole team telling the same story.AI amplifies what you give it. Feed it your customer’s reality, and it amplifies signal. Feed it nothing, and it amplifies your own reflection—faster.Show, don’t tell. Claims are unverifiable to anyone who hasn’t already experienced them. Stories are felt before they’re evaluated. The difference is the difference between copy that sells and stories people actually believe.Brand is a relationship, not an asset. The companies that get it right—Nike, FedEx, McDonald’s—invest in the emotional experience of the customer, not just the product or the logistics behind it.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at ⁠bullhornsbullseyes.com⁠.Follow ⁠the show on LinkedIn!⁠Learn more about ⁠Collideascope⁠ and ⁠Creative Mill⁠ at their respective websites.Connect with ⁠Curtis⁠ and ⁠Tom⁠ on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, ⁠Amplify and Aim⁠!

Emily Bielak, Director at The Martec Group, returns to Bullhorns & Bullseyes to dig into the hidden costs of customer blind spots…and how behavioral research can expose them. Building on the previous lesson with Will Leach, about the emotional nature of purchase decisions, Tom and Curtis bring Emily in to explain what actually happens when companies think they already know their customer. Emily walks through The Martec Group’s approach to customer segmentation and journey mapping, including the Martec Emotion Score, the Peak-End Theory, and the “what, so what, now what” framework that separates actionable research from reports that collect digital dust. The conversation covers why segmentation goes far beyond the ideal customer profile, how to read the emotional signals at every stage of the buyer journey, and what a minimum viable research program actually looks like—whether you’re a scrappy small business or a company with unlimited budget.N.B.:Learn more about The Martec Emotion Score and Customer Journey Mapping and Segmentation at martecgroup.com.Connect with Emily on LinkedIn.Be sure to subscribe to our Substack to never miss an episode!Takeaways:The most dangerous assumption in marketing isn’t “we don’t know our customer”—it’s “we already do.”Emotions drive 96% of decisions. Rational analysis is the post-game recap, not the game.Segmentation goes beyond your ICP. The customers outside your ideal profile still buy—and understanding them unlocks growth.The Martec Emotion Score quantifies the net pleasantness of emotion the way NPS quantifies advocacy—giving leaders a metric they can actually manage.The peak-end rule says customers remember how they felt at the peak and at the end of an experience. Design for those moments, not the average.Research that sits in a filing cabinet isn’t research—it’s a sunk cost. The “what, so what, now what” framework turns findings into a roadmap.AI is a useful brainstorming and organizing tool, but it can’t replace the human judgment required to act on emotional and behavioral data.The minimum viable research program is a one-on-one customer interview. No budget required—just the willingness to ask.A qual–quant–qual approach is the gold standard: qualitative context, quantitative validation, then qualitative depth to bring segments to life.Misaligned marketing doesn’t mean bad execution. It means execution built on the wrong foundation. Fix the strategy first.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Be sure to subscribe to our Substack to never miss an episode!Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about CollideascopeCreative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Emily Bielak, Director at The Martec Group, returns to Bullhorns & Bullseyes to dig into the hidden costs of customer blind spots…and how behavioral research can expose them. Building on the previous lesson with Will Leach, about the emotional nature of purchase decisions, Tom and Curtis bring Emily in to explain what actually happens when companies think they already know their customer. Emily walks through The Martec Group’s approach to customer segmentation and journey mapping, including the Martec Emotion Score, the Peak-End Theory, and the “what, so what, now what” framework that separates actionable research from reports that collect digital dust. The conversation covers why segmentation goes far beyond the ideal customer profile, how to read the emotional signals at every stage of the buyer journey, and what a minimum viable research program actually looks like—whether you’re a scrappy small business or a company with unlimited budget.N.B.:Learn more about The Martec Emotion Score and Customer Journey Mapping and Segmentation at martecgroup.com.Connect with Emily on LinkedIn.Be sure to subscribe to our Substack to never miss an episode!Takeaways:The most dangerous assumption in marketing isn’t “we don’t know our customer”—it’s “we already do.”Emotions drive 96% of decisions. Rational analysis is the post-game recap, not the game.Segmentation goes beyond your ICP. The customers outside your ideal profile still buy—and understanding them unlocks growth.The Martec Emotion Score quantifies the net pleasantness of emotion the way NPS quantifies advocacy—giving leaders a metric they can actually manage.The peak-end rule says customers remember how they felt at the peak and at the end of an experience. Design for those moments, not the average.Research that sits in a filing cabinet isn’t research—it’s a sunk cost. The “what, so what, now what” framework turns findings into a roadmap.AI is a useful brainstorming and organizing tool, but it can’t replace the human judgment required to act on emotional and behavioral data.The minimum viable research program is a one-on-one customer interview. No budget required—just the willingness to ask.A qual–quant–qual approach is the gold standard: qualitative context, quantitative validation, then qualitative depth to bring segments to life.Misaligned marketing doesn’t mean bad execution. It means execution built on the wrong foundation. Fix the strategy first.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Be sure to subscribe to our Substack to never miss an episode!Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about CollideascopeCreative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Tom and Curtis welcome back Will Leach, best-selling author of Marketing to Mind States and founder of the Mindstate Group, for a deeper dive into how behavioral psychology and neuroscience should shape the way marketers think, message, and measure. Building on their previous conversation, this episode moves from theory toward practice, examining why even the most intellectually convinced marketers default to feature-first thinking the moment they sit down to write copy or plan a campaign…completely misaligned with the psychology of the buyer.This episode builds and expands upon the themes from episode 1: why marketing drifts, why mirror marketing fails, and why AI can be a false prophet if it’s amplifying the wrong things. How do you know what the right things actually are? Tune in to find out, as Will demonstrates how customers make purchase decisions…and teases our next lesson: How you can find out how your customer truly feels!N.B.:Learn more and get the bookConnect with Will on LinkedInLet’s continue the conversation on our Substack! And please remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode!Takeaways:The brain’s filter—the reticular activating system—blocks most marketing before it ever reaches conscious awareness; only pain points and genuine aspirations get through.Marketers understand consumer psychology as individuals but abandon it when thinking as providers, defaulting to feature comparisons instead.Short-term revenue accountability is the structural reason most marketing stays shallow; optimizing for measurable metrics crowds out deeper customer understanding.Large language models are trained on the world’s data, not your customer’s—what they return sounds good but is essentially a very confident average.Temporal landmarks—predictable moments in time when a specific mind state is likely active—let marketers target context without needing to identify individual psychological states.The CFO conversation changes when you can articulate what makes customers tick and predict messaging outcomes, rather than reporting last month’s clicks.Before any marketing meeting moves to tactics or metrics, it should start with one question: what is the customer’s pain or aspiration right now?Review data, call transcripts, and social media all contain psychological “tells”; AI can help surface them if it’s been grounded in behavioral science frameworks first.Brand is increasingly the only durable moat—not pricing, distribution, or operations—and LLMs will recognize and amplify brands that have earned genuine psychological meaning.AI amplifies whatever you activate—right or wrong. Getting the customer psychology right before scaling is no longer optional.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Be sure to subscribe to our Substack to never miss an episode!Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Season 3 kicks off by exploring marketing drift—the gradual (and often invisible) way businesses lose alignment with their customers over time.As AI makes it easier to execute faster and at scale, many companies are unknowingly accelerating that drift—amplifying the wrong message, chasing tactics, and increasing complexity. The result is what Tom and Curtis call the chaos tax: more activity, more spend, and less impact.This episode introduces a new framework for getting back on course, starting with a simple but critical shift: diagnosis before deployment.N.B.:Let’s continue the conversation on our Substack! And please remember to subscribe the Substack newsletter so you never miss an episode!Takeaways:Warning: AI amplifies whatever you feed it—right or wrong.Marketing drift happens gradually, then suddenly—and most teams don’t recognize it.AI often accelerates that drift by scaling misaligned messaging and tactics.The chaos tax is the cost of drift: increased effort, spend, and complexity without results.Most brands rely on internal assumptions instead of real customer insights.Diagnosis before deployment helps realign marketing before scaling it.The path forward starts by reconnecting with the customer—not doubling down on tactics.The four principles for modern marketing that we will explore in Season 3:→ Diagnosis before deployment→ Coherence before creativity→ Meaning before media→ Revenue before reachFind and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Be sure to subscribe to our Substack to never miss an episode!Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

In the final episode of Season 2, Tom and Curtis look back on a year filled with heavyweight guests, big marketing themes, and unexpected insights. From the power of storytelling in a hyper-automated world to the challenges of attribution and algorithmic gatekeepers, they unpack the trends that shaped 2025…and explore what they’re betting on for 2026. They reflect on standout conversations with bestselling authors, agency leaders, and AI innovators, share personal anecdotes about content creation and audience building, and offer a candid, thoughtful look at what’s next for marketers in a fast-changing landscape. Takeaways:Storytelling remains the most powerful differentiator in the age of AI—audiences stay to “see how the story ends.”Algorithms increasingly gatekeep audience access, forcing marketers to balance organic strategy with paid amplification.A look at AI driving the newest, latest digital advertising platforms and what it means for your campaigns going forward.AI literacy is now table stakes, but adding a human layer—empathy, perspective, originality—is what keeps content relevant.Long-form, immersive content consumption is resurging as people tire of mindless scrolling.Brands should prioritize owning their audience—newsletters, communities, and direct channels—to future-proof against platform shifts.The PESO model, attribution challenges, and algorithmic “math” all continue to influence how campaigns perform and how marketers plan.SNEAK PREVIEW: Season 3 may include serialized educational mini-courses to help listeners build real skills over a structured series. And get ready for the Bullhorns and Bullseyes community!Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Tom and Curtis welcome back one of the show’s most frequent and beloved guests: Mario D'Aquila, COO of Assisted Living Home Care Services. Together, they unpack what’s changed since his last appearance, including lessons learned from Performance Max campaigns, the nuance of sending the right conversion signals, and the often-overlooked role of sales ops in marketing efficiency. Then Mario opens the door to a deeper discussion on organizational dynamics through DISC profiling—how it informs hiring, management, sales, and even your website UX. It’s a wide-ranging, entertaining episode that connects storytelling, human behavior, and data-driven marketing into one cohesive playbook.N.B.:Learn more at assistedlivingct.com and assistedlivingtechnologies.com.Connect with Mario on LinkedIn.Takeaways:Fine-tuning marketing signals too narrowly can reduce lead volume—even if conversion rate rises.Real-time data sent back to platforms (Google, Meta) improves campaign learning—and protects budget utilization.Marketing wins should be counted at the moment a qualified lead enters the sales process, not only after sales qualifies it again.DISC profiling can dramatically improve internal communication, hiring, and operational harmony.Sales teams can use DISC cues to better read prospects and adapt communication on the fly.Marketing content must appeal to all DISC types—Ds want clarity, Cs want detail, Is want story, and Ss want reassurance.Growth requires both efficiency and volume; you can’t rely on algorithmic “sure things” alone.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Most businesses still think “privacy compliance” is a big-company problem—but the rules (and risks) say otherwise. In this episode, Amy L. Baddley, privacy and cybersecurity associate at Varnum LLP, joins Curtis and Tom to unpack what data privacy really means for every business owner. From cookie banners and compliance thresholds to the myths around “template” privacy policies, this episode is your plain-English primer on doing privacy right—before regulators, lawsuits, or “privacy chasers” come knocking.If you’ve ever wondered whether your website’s cookie notice is enough… this one’s for you.N.B.:Learn more at VarnumLaw.com.Connect with Amy on LinkedIn.Takeaways:Almost every website collects personal data—even IP addresses and analytics count.Cookie banners must actually work; “fake” ones can expose you to lawsuits.Avoid dark patterns—don’t make it easier to accept cookies than reject them.Privacy laws now exist in 19+ U.S. states, plus GDPR and Canada’s frameworks.Compliance isn’t optional: lawsuits and $20K-per-user settlements are real risks.Privacy compliance starts with data mapping—know what data you collect, where it goes, and who touches it.Privacy policies must match your real data practices; templates can increase risk.“Privacy by design” is cheaper and easier than fixing it later.Partnering with privacy counsel early protects your brand and unlocks new opportunities (many large vendors now require compliance).Consumers expect transparency—it’s not just legal hygiene, it’s a trust advantage.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

The traditional agency model is cracking—and Janet Tyler, co-founder and president of True Depth, says that’s a good thing. In this candid conversation with Curtis and Tom, the longtime agency leader and M&A advisor breaks down why the future belongs to smaller, smarter, tech-enabled teams. They dive into AI’s impact on creative services, what private equity really wants from agencies, and how reinvention—not resistance—is the new competitive edge.If you’ve ever wondered whether the agency you built can evolve fast enough, this one’s a masterclass in disruption done right.N.B.:Learn more at TrueDepth.com.Connect with Janet on LinkedIn.Takeaways:The old agency model—layers, meetings, and middle-management—is fading fast.Leaders who stop “doing the work” lose their edge (and joy); reinvention starts by reclaiming the craft.Smaller, hybrid “non-agencies” and TeamLance-style networks are outperforming traditional structures.Private equity is still investing—but only in firms showing real evolution and profitability.M&A success depends on integration, not just the deal; culture alignment is everything.AI is both a disruptor and an amplifier: smart teams use it to enhance strategy, not replace people.“Privacy by design” becomes “strategy by design”—adapt or fade.Younger talent will need an apprenticeship mindset to gain real-world strategic skills.Agencies that keep reinventing themselves—not clinging to legacy models—will attract both buyers and clients.The number-one indicator of future value? A strong management bench, not a founder-centric brand.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Few people embody “audience-first” and “leading expert” like Brian Clark. In this conversation, the Copyblogger founder (now building Further and Leading Expert) traces how trust-driven publishing beat ads and algorithms then—and why it still wins now. He, Curtis and Tom get into building on owned land (email > everything), testing offers with lean content, and pairing lived expertise with AI without losing your voice. If you’re a Gen-X creator, consultant, or founder trying to grow in an algorithmic world, this one’s a playbook.N.B.:Learn more at further.net and leadingexpert.com.Connect with Brian on LinkedIn.Takeaways:Build the audience first, then design the product around validated pain points of that audience.Treat social as discovery; make email your home base and asset.You don’t need a massive audience—just a trusted one.Use “lean content” to iterate: publish → observe → refine → ship.Let AI amplify your ideas and delivery, not replace your voice.Speak to a specific someone (repel to attract); shared identity builds trust.Midlife is a growth edge: seasoned expertise + AI + ownership = leverage.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Few guests fit more naturally into the fading remnants of Season 2 of Bullhorns and Bullseyes than Kristian A. Alomá, PhD, founder and CEO of Threadline and author of Start with the Story: Brand-Building in a Narrative Economy. Kristian joins Tom and Curtis to unpack why consumers use brands to tell stories about identity, not just satisfy needs. He explains his Brand STORY Framework, the psychology behind loyalty, and how narrative thinking can turn research data into human insight. From Apple fandom to Calgon nostalgia, this conversation connects marketing, meaning, and the stories we tell ourselves.N.B.:Learn more at threadline.com and kristianaloma.com.Connect with Kristian on LinkedIn.Takeaways:Stories drive behavior. People buy symbols of who they are, not just products.Brand ≠ marketing. Branding is the relationship you create; marketing lives within it.The STORY Framework: Struggle → Tool → Objective → Reward → Yearning—the arc every brand narrative needs.Make your customer the hero. If you claim hero status, they’ll find another story.Empathy > data. Great research listens for emotion; story gives the numbers meaning.Honor your own story. A brand’s legacy proves it’s earned the right to tell today’s story.Think in lifetimes, not quarters. Narrative strategy builds loyalty that compounds.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

In this episode, Tom and Curtis welcome Jesse Flores, Founder and Chief Web Pro at SuperWebPros, for a wide-ranging conversation on the fast-moving world of AI. From his first “this is different” moment with ChatGPT to the rise of personalized, conversational websites and open-source tools that let small teams punch above their weight, Jesse offers a front-row look at how AI is transforming business today—and where it’s headed next.N.B.:See Jesse’s work at superwebpros.comConnect with Jesse on LinkedInTakeaways:AI’s rapid growth in the past 18–24 months is unlike any prior tech shift—driven by compounding data and accessibility.The “aha moment” wasn’t just ChatGPT—it was when models could connect via APIs, powering real business workflows.Browsers and websites are moving toward personalized, agentic experiences, where every visitor gets a unique conversation.Model Context Protocols (MCPs) are the plumbing that allow AI agents to connect to tools, CRMs, and data.Open-source tools like LibreChat and n8n are enabling lean teams to do what once required enterprise resources.Success with AI depends on clean, structured data and aligning agents with your brand voice.Expect the near future to blend “pageants” (pages as agents), conversational lead magnets, and AI product guides—transforming websites into dynamic, brand-personalized conversations.Looking ahead 12–24 months: AI agents will increasingly network with each other to handle real-world tasks (like booking a repair service) automatically.Find and Follow:Find all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

In this episode, Tom and Curtis sit down with Mike Iley, COO of LoVasco Consulting Group, to unpack how the StoryBrand framework—and its roots in the Hero’s Journey—helped LoVasco shift from “look at us” to “we’re your guide,” clarifying their message across the website, sales, and internal comms. Expect practical, no-jargon advice on naming your customer’s problem first, using stronger calls to action, and painting the “success vs. failure” picture that moves people to act.N.B.:See StoryBrand in action at lovascogroup.comConnect with Mike on LinkedInTakeaways:StoryBrand aligns tightly with the classic Hero’s Journey: your customer is the hero, your brand is the guide with a plan. Lead with the problem/pain your ideal customer feels—name it better than they can—and momentum follows. Strong, simple calls to action (and a secondary CTA) keep websites from becoming feature dumps. Don’t just promise a happy ending; contrast success vs. failure right after the CTA to spur action. Why–How–What vs. StoryBrand? More alignment than debate: hook with the “why,” earn the scroll for the how/what. Implementation matters: LoVasco used StoryBrand copy first, then design, then scaled it as a shared internal language. Outcome: clearer positioning, easier sales conversations, and clients discovering adjacent services they actually need.Find and Follow:See all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

In this episode, Curtis and Tom sit down with Gini Dietrich, founder and CEO of Spin Sucks and creator of the PESO Model®, to talk about how communications leaders can adapt in today’s “zero-click” reality. From rethinking attribution to building visibility with AI in mind, Gini shares why the PESO framework is no longer just a model, it’s becoming an operating system for modern marketing. The conversation covers how consumer journeys are anything but linear, why measurement is murkier than ever, and what signals actually matter when proving traction.You’ll also hear practical advice on how to test your brand visibility in AI tools today, why owned and earned media are more important than ever, and how to shift from funnels to flywheels when building trust.N.B.:Learn more at SpinSucks.comConnect with Gini on LinkedInTakeaways:The PESO Model—paid, earned, shared, owned—must evolve into an operating system for comms teams.In a zero-click world, credibility in earned and owned media drives whether AI surfaces your brand.The customer journey is no longer linear—think “flywheel,” not funnel.Attribution is broken. Instead, track traction signals like branded search lift, community health, and unaided awareness.Your website is still critical. AI may cite it, and high-quality visitors often come directly from those references.Think like a publisher again: create content that answers real customer questions, not just what Google wants.Test your brand visibility by going incognito in AI tools. See what shows up, what doesn’t, and fix inconsistencies.Find and Follow:See all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Curtis and Tom sit down with Brendan Norman, CEO and co-founder of Classify, to talk about the future of digital advertising and why contextual targeting is making a comeback. Drawing from his experience launching Facebook’s Audience Network and scaling it to $3B in revenue, Brendan explains how Classify uses AI to go deeper than keywords and categories—ensuring the right ad shows up against the right content.The conversation covers how contextual advertising works without relying on cookies or personal data, why precision beats blanket targeting, and how brands can win in a zero-click, privacy-first era. Brendan also shares case studies, including one niche product that saw a 35x lift in click-through rate using Classify’s curated URL lists, and introduces fresh ideas like his “ROSÉ” metric—return on sustainable efficiency—for tackling advertising’s carbon footprint.N.B.:Learn more at tryclassify.comConnect with Brendan on LinkedInTakeaways:Contextual advertising is back—precision content targeting without cookies.AI can classify content at a deeper, more semantic level than legacy tools.Custom URL lists unlock niche targeting with outsized performance gains.Strong contextual alignment can lift CTRs by 50%+ (and sometimes far more).Sustainability matters: the ad industry must cut carbon waste from its massive data infrastructure.Best content still wins—context plus community creates durable advertising value.Find and Follow:See all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Curtis and Tom welcome Nolan Reiter, Employer Branding Strategist at Scout Design, to unpack what employer branding really means…and why it matters now more than ever. Nolan shares how he helps companies move beyond job ads and recruitment campaigns to build authentic candidate experiences that align with culture and brand strategy. Nolan shares insights from client projects across industries, discusses candidate “moments that matter,” and highlights the role of AI tools like Paradox’s Olivia in making the hiring process more human, not less. You’ll also hear practical advice on how to audit your candidate journey, what to look for in aligning HR and marketing, and why companies must shift from quick tech fixes to deeper truths about culture and employee experience.N.B.:Learn more at scoutdesign.agencyConnect with Nolan on LinkedInTakeaways:Employer branding isn’t just advertising—it’s the candidate experience.Authenticity and alignment with company culture are essential.Strong employer branding improves application rates, candidate quality, and retention.Recruitment marketing and technology work best only after the brand truth is defined.Employer branding must connect with the company’s overall brand strategy for maximum impact.AI tools like Olivia can enhance, not replace, human touchpoints in the hiring journey.Find and Follow:See all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Funnel-based storyteller returns to the podcast to have a little fun. Challenge, with Curtis as “the client,” can Josh and Tom retell a fictitious brand’s story on the fly, with little input and using only their aligned methodologies? Tom’s going to encourage Curtis to lead with his client’s WHY; and Josh is sure to align the messaging with the tried-and-true sales/marketing funnel. Will they outperform AI in the process? Tune in to find out! We’re working without a net this week, folks…well, we did have the internet…but we didn’t use it…promise!N.B.:Connect with Josh on LinkedIn.Learn more about Josh and his agency at Donco Marketing.Takeaways:Funnel-driven storytelling helps structure brand messaging.Awareness is crucial in the initial stages of customer engagement.Positioning the customer as the hero enhances brand appeal.Social proof can significantly impact customer trust.Effective storytelling should focus on benefits, not just features.Understanding the audience's journey is key to effective marketing.Brand storytelling should evolve from the website outward.  Identifying the precise target audience is crucial for effective messaging.Data plays a vital role in understanding lead generation and conversion.Stakeholder interviews are essential for crafting effective marketing narratives.AI can enhance marketing strategies but should not replace human insight.Effective messaging should focus on the customer's journey and pain points.Understanding the emotional aspects of marketing can improve client relationships.Customer-centric marketing positions the customer as the hero of the story.Find and Follow:See all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

“Authentic” and “Storytelling” aren’t in “scare quotes” in the episode title. They are actually quoting two of the central themes of Season 2. (Also quoting Curtis a lot, we might add.) In this episode, he and Tom welcome Megan Sweigart from Kinetic Marketing Communications to thoroughly explore the significance of authentic storytelling in marketing. They discuss the innovative collective agency model (something we hold near and dear, of course!) and the shift in focus from SEO to human-centric messaging. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the customer as the hero of the story, the challenges brands face in aligning their messaging, and the role of executives in personalizing brand narratives. N.B.:Connect with Meagan on LinkedIn.Learn more about Kinetic Marketing Communications at kineticcomms.com.Takeaways:Authenticity and storytelling are crucial in marketing, but let’s understand what each of those words actually mean in the modern marketing environment.Kinetic operates as a collective agency model—just like Collideascope!In a post-SEO world and new GEO reality, the focus should be on writing for people, not algorithms.The customer should always be the hero of the story. Where have we heard THAT before?!Brands must connect with their audience's needs and emotions authentically, so they understand which stories to tell.Executive involvement in storytelling enhances brand trust.Data can help align brand messaging with audience expectations.Storytelling should be approached like journalism in many ways.The impact of a story is more important than the litany of product features.Find and Follow:See all episodes at bullhornsbullseyes.com.Follow the show on LinkedIn!Learn more about Collideascope and Creative Mill at their respective websites.Connect with Curtis and Tom on LinkedIn.Check out our newsletter, Amplify and Aim!

Tom finally gets his pudding and Curtis acquiesces. In this fun episode, we dive deep 🛎️ into the origins and evolution of a podcast launched to focus all on Yacht Rock. But this much more than exploring 🛎️ how he and his co-host—this week’s guest, Tom’s brother John—discovered the genre, the creation of modern Yacht Rock music, and their love of the music. No, this i all about the strategies they employed to join a community, nurture an audience, and become a center of influence in a niche they would eventually sell into.. They discuss the importance of storytelling, community engagement, and the marketing tactics that helped them grow their podcast and connect with listeners. John and Tom share insights gained from starting out as a complete unknown to eventually interviewing legendary artists, like Kenny Loggins. It’s more than just Tom’s favorite topic…it’s a case study in audience activation and building a story, not around you and your product, but around a specific audience’s natural passions and interests.N.B.:Check out the podcast, Out of the Main.Intro Music: "Never-Ending Story" by Tom's modern yacht group August Red.Outro Music: "Did You Mean That" by John's project Page 99.Don’t forget to check your favorite music listening platforms for Page 99 and August Red!Takeaways:Identifying and serving an audience is crucial for content success.Storytelling is a key element in engaging listeners.Building a community around a niche can lead to greater success than trying to build a customer base for your product or service.Strategizing before launching a podcast can prevent future pitfalls.Engaging with existing communities can accelerate audience growth for yourself.Building momentum through networking can lead to greater visibility.Creating content that serves the audience fosters genuine connections—more so than constantly pitching your wares.Podcasting allows for the creation of diverse content from a single episode.

Tom and Curtis welcome Will Leach, best-selling author of Marketing to Mind States, to the show to explore the importance of understanding consumer behavior through the lens of behavioral psychology and neuroscience. Will discusses his Mind State Model, which emphasizes the significance of non-conscious factors in decision-making and how marketers can leverage this understanding to create more effective messaging. The conversation delves into the role of goals, motivations, and emotional connections in marketing, as well as the challenges of capturing and maintaining consumer attention in a saturated advertising landscape. The discussion also highlights the difference between brand attachment and brand loyalty, arguing that attachment creates a stronger connection with consumers.N.B.:Learn more and get the bookConnect with Will on LinkedInTakeaways:Understanding the non-conscious mind is crucial for effective marketing.The Mind State Model helps in crafting messages that resonate with consumers.Goals and motivations drive consumer behavior more than features.Behavioral economics provides insights into decision-making shortcuts.The reticular activating system filters out most marketing messages.Addressing pain points can bypass consumer filters and capture attention.Marketing should start with understanding the customer, not the product.Understanding psychological mind states is crucial for effective marketing.Resist “the AAA of temptation,” which is attribution, algorithms, and arithmetic.Marketers often optimize for metrics instead of human behavior.Brand attachment is stronger than brand loyalty.Temporal landmarks influence consumer behavior and decision-making.

In the first-ever in-studio edition of Bullhorns and Bullseyes, Curtis and Tom welcome onto the set Doug Mans and Meghan Mans-Kurili, fourth- and fifth-generation members of the Mans family at the help of Mans Lumber and Home. Learn about the company’s secret to longevity, a story that spans 125 years, two world wars, two global pandemics, a housing bubble crisis, and even attempted arson! Learn how a family-owned business can both stay consistent to its values while also adapting with the times and evolving and innovating as a business. Listen or watch along to hear how Meghan modernized the company’s marketing approach, evolving it from brand awareness only to a mix of brand awareness, lead generation, and measurable outcomes tied to actual sales.N.B.:Read and see all about the Mans legacy spanning 125 years!Thanks to Auxiom for providing the studio space, recording gear, and highly capable tech team!Takeaways:Evolve with the times to stay relevant—what worked for your business decades ago won’t carry you into the future.Balance old-school tactics like radio and billboards with performance-based digital marketing to maximize your reach and ROI.Prioritize marketing channels you can track and measure so you know exactly what’s working and where to invest.Implement a closed-loop system where sales feeds lead quality data back to marketing to improve targeting and reduce waste.Don’t underestimate your Google Business Profile—it may drive more phone calls than your website.Rebrand thoughtfully if your current identity limits your appeal—make sure your name, colors, and message invite in your ideal customer.Simplify the customer journey—make key actions like calling or finding a location just one tap away on mobile.Create cohesion across multiple brands by building a unified strategy, even if the businesses serve slightly different markets.Help your customers grow by sharing your marketing expertise—it deepens relationships and strengthens loyalty.Use storytelling to turn your brand history and customer relationships into meaningful, memorable content.

Consultant, author and educator Mark Schaefer joins the podcast to discuss his new book, "Audacious: How Humans Win in an AI Marketing World.” Tune in to learn how to avoid the "economics of dull” and stand out in a world increasingly proliferated by the mundane. Mark emphasizes the need for courage in marketing, the significance of storytelling, and the role of community in building connections. The discussion also touches on measuring the impact of “audacious” marketing strategies and the necessity of embracing AI as a tool rather than a replacement. Ultimately, the conversation highlights that human connection and creativity remain vital in a technology-driven world.N.B.:Find the book, follow Mark, and learn MUCH much more at businessesgrow.com.Takeaways:Authenticity is key in a world saturated with AI-generated content.Personal branding is the final 20% that AI cannot replicate and won’t be replaced.Courage is essential for marketers to stand out.Storytelling should evoke emotions, not just convey information.Disrupting traditional storytelling can lead to greater engagement.Community building is a powerful marketing strategy.Measuring the impact of audacious marketing is essential. Check out Mark’s book for a methodology for measuring “audacious” marketing.AI should be embraced as a tool for enhancement, not replacement.Humans will always have an edge in marketing through creativity and connection…if they lean into originality, authenticity, and yes—audacity!

In an episode replete with acronyms, Tom and Curtis welcome Nikki Little and Lexi Trimpe of Franco discuss the evolving landscape of public relations in the context of AI and digital marketing. They explore the significance of the PESO model, the resurgence of earned media, and the importance of quality content in the age of AI. They explore how information discovery is shifting, the necessity of personalization, and the implementation of AI policies within organizations. The discussion highlights actionable steps for effective marketing and the critical role of integrated approaches in achieving success.N.B.:Check out Nikki’s and Lexi’s website and podcast at franco.com.Connect with Nikki and Lexi on LinkedIn.Takeaways:PR is increasingly important now, especially with the rise of AI.The PESO model integrates paid, earned, shared, and owned media for success.Earned media is crucial for discoverability, not just awareness.SEO is not dead; it continues to evolve with AI.High-quality content is essential for audience engagement.AI is changing the way we approach media relations.Brands must optimize for answer engines to increase visibility.Content syndication is as important as content creation.Measuring success should go beyond just conversions.Engaging content can significantly increase audience interaction.Implementing AI policies is necessary for organizational alignment.Creating a cohesive marketing strategy requires integration across channels.

Tom and Curtis Hays engage Joel Waldman, founder of Yak AI, to discuss the evolving landscape of local SEO and the critical role of Google Business Profiles. The conversation delves into the impact of AI on marketing strategies and the necessity for businesses to adapt to new consumer behaviors. Joel shares actionable insights for small to medium-sized business owners to enhance their online presence and drive growth.N.B.: Follow Joel on LinkedInCheck out YakAI.coTakeaways:The Google Business Profile is crucial for local SEO.AI is transforming the marketing landscape.Yakkers thrive in competitive environments.Customer reviews significantly impact business visibility.Optimizing digital storefronts is essential for growth.Businesses must adapt to changing consumer behaviors.Leveraging existing customers for reviews is key.AI tools can enhance customer engagement.Content development helps train AI models.Monitoring online profiles is an ongoing necessity.

Curtis and Tom welcome Jared Gibson, co-founder of Outworks, to the show to discuss the importance of founder-led content in today's digital landscape. They explore the shift from company-centric marketing to personal branding, especially in the wake of the pandemic. The conversation delves into the challenges of maintaining reach on LinkedIn, the significance of quality content over sheer numbers, and the evolving buyer journey that emphasizes research and trust-building through consistent content. Jared shares insights on creating a sustainable content strategy that resonates with audiences and positions executives as thought leaders. Word of the day: RELENTLESS!N.B.: Follow Jared on LinkedInCheck out Outworks.ioTakeaways:Founder-led content humanizes executives and builds trust.The pandemic shifted focus from company content to personal branding.Video content is crucial for engagement on LinkedIn.Quality of impressions matters more than quantity.Buyers prefer to do their research before engaging.Content can accelerate the sales pipeline.Influence can still be gained despite reduced reach. Relentless content creation combines quality and quantity.Not everyone is ready to buy immediately; content serves future needs.Long-term commitment to content is essential for success.Content should be a lifestyle change, not a short-term campaign.

In this episode, Tom and Curtis explore key foundational concepts of marketing and demonstrate how they use various models — one traditional, one transformational, and one original — to construct campaigns, measure success, and message effectively. They begin with the traditional sales funnel (AIDA) and the importance of understanding the customer journey. They then discuss the RACE framework and the importance of aligning metrics to specific moments and legs of the customer journey. Finally, they illustrate Tom’s “WHY-HOW-WHAT” methodology for content creation and messaging (borrowed heavily from Simon Sinek’s Golden Circle TED Talk). The conversation emphasizes the significance of awareness, engagement, and the need to nurture potential customers through the funnel to achieve successful conversions. In this conversation, Curtis Hays and Tom Nixon delve into the intricacies of content marketing and the sales funnel, emphasizing the importance of building trust with potential customers through educational content. They discuss the need for relentless content creation to engage learners and nurture their interest, ultimately guiding them through the sales funnel towards conversion. N.B.: Here is a link to the visuals Tom and Curtis shared during the episode.Takeaways:The duo highlights the pitfalls of skipping essential steps in the funnel, the significance of understanding customer purpose, and the necessity of aligning marketing strategies to maximize customer lifetime value. They also explore the power of 'why' in marketing, advocating for a customer-centric approach that resonates with potential buyers.Sales funnels are linear (because they describe an evolution of thought process, regardless of timeline); though customer journeys can be varied and difficult to predict or map in a straight line.Awareness is the first step in the sales funnel.Engagement is crucial for moving customers through the funnel.The RACE framework helps structure marketing efforts—especially metrics.Metrics should align with each stage of the funnel.Skipping the funnel is a selfish and short-sighted folly that can lead to missed opportunities.Understanding your audience is essential for effective marketing.Conversion requires nurturing and proper timing. Content marketing is crucial for building trust.Educational content helps engage potential customers.Relentless content creation is necessary for nurturing interest.Effective marketing requires patience and time.Customer engagement should focus on the customers’ needs, not just the product’s features.Marketing should be viewed as an investment, not an expense.

Tom and Curtis delve deeply this week into the intricacies of content marketing, emphasizing the importance of storytelling, understanding the audience, and the concept of the hero's journey in marketing. The conversation highlights the need for businesses to connect emotionally with their audience and to understand their journey in order to effectively communicate their value proposition. The dialogue explores the significance of storytelling in building trust and authority, the necessity of identifying the target audience, and the strategies for creating impactful content on a budget. They also highlight the distinction between building an owned audience versus “building on rented land.”N.B.:Check out Creative Mill here..Learn more about Collideascope here!Takeaways:Companies should focus on “being awesome,” BEFORE they begin to think about selling products.The hero's journey framework can and should be applied to marketing strategies. But remember: you’re not the hero in the story!Mapping the customer journey is essential to convert visitors into an audience and it begins by asking existing customers, “Tell us about the journey that led you here…”Customers aren’t buying the product, necessarily…they’re chasing the outcome. Effective marketing examples from brands illustrate the importance of outcome-focused messaging.Wait, content isn’t king anymore? Then what is? → Audience first.

Curtis and Tom welcome Dani Dufresne, Executive Producer and Founder of The Aux Company, to explore the evolution of the agency model. Dani emphasizes the importance of building an audience, rather than just having customers. The group discusses and debates insights on community engagement, the significance of branding before marketing, and the need for data-driven decisions in marketing strategies. The conversation also touches on the importance of consistency in messaging and the agility required in today's fast-paced marketing environment. Ultimately, the episode highlights the necessity of understanding your audience and creating a brand that resonates with them.N.B.:Check out The Aux Co.’s website.Connect with Dani on LinkedIn!Takeaways:Brands should focus on building an audience, not just customers.The new agency model allows for flexibility and creativity.Branding should come before marketing efforts.Data-driven decisions are crucial for effective marketing strategies.Consistency in messaging is key to brand success.Agility in marketing allows brands to adapt to changes quickly.Understanding your audience is essential for effective branding.Sales will follow when a brand builds a loyal community.Creating brand magnetism requires authenticity and connection.

In this episode, Tom and Curtis discuss the recent Google Marketing Live 2025 event, exploring Google's innovative strategies in marketing, the evolution of search, and the impact of AI on user behavior and content discovery. They emphasize the shift towards intent-based marketing and the importance of understanding consumer needs in the digital landscape, particularly through platforms like YouTube. They also emphasize the importance of understanding customer journeys and leveraging AI tools to enhance marketing efforts while maintaining a human touch in decision-making.N.B.:Google Marketing Live 2025 in under 15 minutesDon’t miss this amazing AI video using VEO3: Puppramin!Takeaways:YouTube has surpassed Netflix as the number one streaming platform in the U.S.15% of daily searches are new queries that have never been searched before.SEO is shifting away from keyword stuffing to understanding user intent.AI technologies are not ranking factors but serve as researchers for content.Google aims to understand the 'why' behind user queries to provide better results.Businesses need to focus on solving customer problems rather than just ranking for keywords.Brand reputation and sentiment analysis are becoming crucial in AI-driven search results.YouTube creators will have new opportunities for revenue through brand partnerships. YouTube remains a cost-effective platform for advertising.The marketing funnel is, in fact, sequential (if not “linear”); customer journeys are not.AI can enhance advertising but requires human oversight.Transparency in data management is essential for trust.Offline conversions should be integrated into marketing strategies.

Micheal Cooney, Founder of WhatConverts, joins Tom and Curtis to touch the third rail of marketing attribution: "What's working and what is my return on investment?" The conversation explores the challenges marketers face in tracking conversions, the significance of reporting in monetary terms, and the need for accountability in sales processes. They also delve into the concept of gamification in lead management, highlighting how making the process engaging can lead to better results and team cohesion. The discussion also highlights the significance of content marketing and branding in achieving long-term success in a competitive landscape.Takeaways:Reporting in dollars rather than vanity metrics is crucial for client satisfaction.Creating a system that is easy to use is essential for adoption.Attribution challenges often stem from people not wanting to follow processes.Gamification can enhance engagement and accountability in lead management.Transparency in reporting leads to better training and performance.Optimizing campaigns should be based on actionable insights rather than overwhelming data. Engagement is crucial for clients to see value in marketing platforms.Real-time metrics allow for agile budgeting and decision-making.Content marketing should prioritize audience needs over SEO.Branding plays a significant role in marketing effectiveness.Understanding the full customer journey enhances marketing strategies.Marketers must adapt budgets based on performance metrics.Not all leads come from search; content should attract the right audience.https://bullhornsbullseyes.com/episode-51/

Tom and Curtis celebrate their 50th episode, welcoming guest Carl Winans to discuss the intersection of magic and mathematics in business. Carl emphasizes that advertising is fundamentally a math problem, and understanding key metrics is crucial for sustainable business growth. He shares his entrepreneurial journey, highlighting the importance of doing the math upfront to avoid costly mistakes. The conversation also explores the balance between the creative aspects of branding and the analytical side of business, particularly in the context of e-commerce. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced in the e-commerce landscape and the future implications of AI in the industry.N.B.:Connect with Carl on LinkedIn.Takeaways:Advertising is fundamentally a math problem. And so is your business.Understanding key metrics is crucial for business sustainability.Multiple failures can lead to valuable lessons in entrepreneurship.Doing the math upfront can prevent wasted time and resources.The balance between creativity and analytics is essential in business.Branding is the essence of a company, while marketing communicates that essence.E-commerce should be treated as a business, not just a channel.Customer acquisition cost is vital for understanding business viability.A successful business requires both magic (creativity) and math (analytics).E-commerce requires a full-time commitment and a strategic mindset.Key metrics include conversion rate, average order value, and customer lifetime value.Frequency of customer touchpoints is essential to boost conversion.Math provides clarity and direction for business strategies.

Moshe Zippel, Senior Lead, Advertiser Success with Beehiiv, joins Curtis and Tom to dive deep into newsletters — both from a creator standpoint and from that of advertising in newsletters. We explore email as a middle-of-the-funnel marketing channel as well as a top-of-the-funnel medium in which advertisers can reach highly engaged audiences without all of the typical “noise” that can plague some forms of digital advertising. Tune in to learn more about Beehiiv, the cross-section between MailChimp and Substack!N.B.: Follow Moshe on LinkedInLearn more about Beehiiv here: https://www.beehiiv.comTakeaways:Email marketing remains a powerful tool for deep, rich, undistracted engagement.“Building on rented land” is essential for modern marketing, but so is owned media (review the PESO model!).Frequency and relevance are key to staying top of mind, in email or any other medium.Advertisers seek targeted engagement over broad reach, both of which can be achieved through newsletter advertising.Email is still a primary channel for busy professionals, even among those who try to avoid the clutter of their inboxes.Engaged audiences provide valuable impressions for advertisers—niche newsletters can capture deeply engaged audiences where the live, work and play.

Stop hiding behind your logo! That and other valuable marketing lessons, courtesy of Ryan Koral, Founder of Tell Studios. How do you accomplish that? Video, among other things. Because the second-most authentic delivery medium after face-to-face just might be well-delivered video. Tune in this week as he, Curtis and Tom explore strategies to get the reluctant off of the sidelines and into the video content marketing game!N.B.: Follow Ryan on LinkedInCheck out the Ryan’s learning cohort.Take the video quiz here. Takeaways:Video is becoming a dominant force in content marketing.Brands often hesitate to create video content due to fear of investment and uncertainty about messaging.Authenticity in storytelling is crucial for building trust with clients.Humanizing brands by showcasing real people can enhance customer connection.Using video can save time and improve communication in client interactions.AI cannot replace the emotional connection created through authentic storytelling.Overcoming the fear of video production can lead to significant marketing success.Real, unpolished content can sometimes resonate more with audiences than highly produced videos.Building trust through testimonials is crucial for earning trust and building brands.Top-of-the-funnel marketing can reduce costs and increase visibility.Your unique voice and experience are your secret weapons that nobody else can replicate in the market.Embrace your brand's quirks and be authentic in your messaging.

Matt Loria, CEO of Auxiom and host of the BLTnT Podcast, returns to the show, this time to delve into the world of podcasting. A relatively recently convert at Curtis’s urging, Matt and the guys explore its evolution as a form of content marketing, the importance of storytelling, and the personal journeys that led them all to embrace this medium. They discuss the challenges and successes of podcasting, the significance of building connections, and the metrics that define success in this space. The discussion emphasizes the evolving landscape of content consumption and the necessity of adapting to different learning styles.N.B.: Follow Matt on LinkedInCheck out the BLTnT Podcast!Takeaways:Podcasting is a powerful medium for storytelling.Content marketing has evolved, and podcasting is a key part.Success metrics in podcasting go beyond just numbers.Authenticity in storytelling is crucial for engagement.The podcasting landscape continues to grow and evolve. Marketing is about storytelling and sharing authentic experiences.Video content allows for a deeper connection with the audience.Different people consume content in various ways, including video, audio, and written formats.Short video clips can significantly increase engagement and views.

Did Curtis finally call the Podcasting Police on Tom? Tune in to find out! In the meantime, Tom and Curtis welcome Jessica Pulis, National Account Manager with Red Seat Ventures, to the podcast to discuss the evolving landscape of podcasting. They explore the journey of podcast advertising, the importance of authenticity, and the metrics that define success in the podcasting world. Jessica shares insights on emerging trends, the appeal of reaching niche audiences, and the future of podcast advertising, emphasizing the opportunities for both creators and brands in this dynamic space.N.B.: Follow Jessica on LinkedInKey a-ha moment: “The Transfer of Trust”(You’ll have to listen to learn!)Takeaways:Podcasting is a unique but still emerging platform for niche audiences.Authenticity in advertising leads to higher conversion rates.The podcasting landscape is evolving with the popularity of video content.Advertisers are increasingly recognizing the value of podcasting marketing.Metrics for success include engagement, yes, but the “transfer of trust” of ardent audiences is possibly more important.The podcasting space is still growing and offers opportunities for both creators and advertisers.Podcasting serves as a multimedia extension of content marketing.

Bona fide influencer Claudia Pfau joins Curtis and Tom to examine the potential of influencer marketing and its various implications, even in the B2B space. They discuss the importance of trust and authenticity in building relationships with influencers, the role of internal advocates, and strategies for identifying and leveraging influencers effectively. The conversation also highlights the challenges and rewards of building communities and the significance of providing value to audiences.They also explore strategies for leveraging smaller influencers and the long-term benefits of community-driven marketing efforts. N.B.: Follow Claudia on LinkedInBehold: A podcast about Yacht Rock and a community now 160,000 strong!Claudia’s community: #FindYourTribeTakeaways:Influencer marketing in B2B is broader than just social media stars.Trust is more important than audience size in influencer marketing.Micro-influencers often have deeper connections with their audience.Authenticity is key to establishing trust in marketing.Internal employees can serve as powerful influencers for brands.Building a community requires understanding the audience's pain points.Engaging with existing communities can be more effective than creating new ones.Providing value is essential for converting community members into customers.Influencer marketing has been happening in B2B for a long time, just under different names.Creating content and engaging in conversations can help brands find their audience. Patience is crucial in community building and marketing.Focus on audience needs rather than self-promotion.Creating value in niche communities can lead to growth.

Curtis and Tom are joined by marketing and branding consultant Katherine LeBrun on the show to discuss the metaphorical implications of fishing versus hunting in sales and marketing. They explore how the traditional hunting mindset can be detrimental to building customer relationships and how adopting a fishing mentality can lead to more effective engagement. Even though Curtis is the avid fisherman in the group, Katherine shares keen insights on how to approach sales and marketing with a focus on drawing customers in, rather than aggressively pursuing them. N.B.: Follow Katherine on LinkedInTakeaways:Fishing is a more fitting analogy for sales than hunting.Hunting implies aggression, which can alienate customers.Understanding your environment is crucial in both fishing and marketing.Patience is essential when engaging with potential customers.Research is key to adapting marketing strategies effectively.Building relationships takes time and trust.Content quality is as important as the delivery method.Engagement should be authentic and customer-focused.Treat customers as individuals you want to connect with.Learn your customers' needs to be more effective in marketing.

Tom and Curtis welcome back fractional CMO Aimee Schuster to discuss the critical distinctions between “hand raisers” and “learners” in digital marketing. They explore how understanding these differences can shape marketing strategies, emphasizing the importance of nurturing learners into hand raisers. The conversation delves into the significance of creating two separate funnels for learners and hand raisers, the metrics that matter, and real-world examples that illustrate these concepts. Aimee shares insights on the learner journey and the need for authenticity in marketing, while also addressing the challenges of measuring success in a fast-paced business environment.N.B.:  Follow Aimee on LinkedIn Visit her company’s website: Bandwidth Strategy Learn more about The Josephine Collective, a women-led group of angel investors co-investing small amounts (as little as $1,000 per angel per deal) in early-stage startups across the United States.Takeaways: Understanding the difference between hand raisers and learners is crucial. Marketing strategies should cater to both learners and hand raisers. The learner journey is essential for nurturing potential customers. Metrics should reflect the nuances of the marketing process. Invisible learners and lurkers are valuable in the marketing funnel. Authenticity builds trust and encourages conversions. Sales and marketing must align on definitions and expectations. Creating two funnels helps clarify marketing efforts. Long-term marketing strategies yield better results over time. Engaging content can turn casual learners into loyal customers.

Are we already living in a post-search, post-SEO reality? If so, now what? In this episode, Tom and Curtis explore the evolving landscape of search and marketing in the age of AI. They discuss the rise of zero-click searches, the implications of voice search, and the need for businesses to adapt their SEO strategies. The conversation emphasizes the importance of authentic content and storytelling in marketing, as well as the role of influencers and community engagement in building trust with audiences.  N.B.: Tom’s AI vs. human storytelling example that just might bring a tear to your eye: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tnixon16_on-the-next-episode-of-bullhorns-bullseyes-activity-7287127028439425024-VKwx Takeways: The advent of AI has transformed search results, leading to a rise in “zero-click” search results. A full 65% of Google searches do not result in a click to a website. Voice search is becoming increasingly prevalent and should be considered in SEO strategies. SEO is evolving into “search everywhere optimization,” as search occurs across various platforms. Authentic content is crucial for connecting with audiences and standing out in a crowded market. Storytelling in marketing helps brands connect emotionally with their audience. Influencer marketing leverages established trust to tell brand stories effectively. Community engagement is essential for understanding customer needs and fostering relationships. Brands must prioritize authenticity to resonate with their audience and avoid sounding like marketing. The future of marketing lies in meaningful conversations and connections with customers, not necessarily waiting for searches to lead prospects to your doorstep.

Curtis and Tom kick off Season 2 by going live (originally airing December 18, 2024), during which they covered a range of topics with both curiosity and analysis alike. Appropriately, they open the show talking about the importance of authenticity when it comes to branding and marketing. (You know...like, going live and in-person in real time?) They covered the bases, they fielded some live questions, and they tried to tee listeners up to hit a home run when developing their 2025 marketing plans! Topics Covered: The Shift to Authenticity: Why Gen Z rejects traditional advertising The Power of Video Marketing: Tips for creating authentic video content LinkedIn Newsletters: Building engagement from new audiences Chatbots: Personalized or AI-powered? Smarter Attribution: Navigating privacy and complex customer journeys

In our final episode of Season One, Curtis and Tom discuss the chief takeaways and biggest lessons learned from our first season. Listen in as they break down the big three: 1.) the importance of messaging hierarchy, 2.) the role of systems in marketing, and 3.) the necessity of aligning metrics with objectives. (Hint: Not everything should be measured as pass/fail.) Takeaways: Reflecting on the journey of the podcast and its evolution. How does “WHY-HOW-WHAT” align with the “AIDA” sales funnel? The importance of KPIs in measuring marketing success. Sales readiness is crucial for converting leads into customers. How to align metrics with messaging and methodologies to maximize marketing efforts. Brand building is essential for long-term business growth and short-term lead generation. Sales training can significantly improve conversion rates. Budget allocation should reflect the sales funnel stages and map to the desired outcome of each stage…not JUST sales or conversions! Be sure to come back for Season Two!

Mario D’Aquila — the guest who helped us launch Bullhorns and Bullseyes — returns for the penultimate episode of Season 1 to discuss the lessons he’s learned since we last spoke with him, as well as to outline his shift in mindset and strategy going forward. He, Curtis and Tom discuss the evolution of marketing strategies as companies evolve. They emphasize the importance of KPIs, and the necessity of sales readiness in converting leads. This time, the conversation shifts towards brand building and the transition from lead generation to becoming a valuable resource for customers.  Takeaways: Reflecting on the journey of the podcast and its evolution. The importance of KPIs in measuring marketing success. Sales readiness is crucial for converting leads into customers. Brand building is essential for long-term business growth. Transitioning from lead generation to being a resource for customers. Measuring marketing efficiency helps in understanding ROI. Sales training can significantly improve conversion rates. Building a brand requires faith and a long-term vision. Aligning marketing and sales efforts is key to success. Continuous improvement and adaptation are necessary in business. Learn more about Mario’s company, Assisted Living Services: assistedlivingct.com/ Connect with Mario on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mario-d-aquila-mba-832aa557/

Tom and Curtis return from a brief hiatus to discuss some related — but distinct — marketing terms, through the prism of the book “Forget the Funnel.” What are the differences between “lead-gen,” “lead capture” and “demand-gen” (among other activities). When you take a customer-driven approach to marketing, it is important to align your tactics and messaging with the prospect’s position and pathway through the various phases of the traditional sales funnel. Takeaways: Understanding the sales funnel is crucial for marketers. Customer feedback is essential for refining marketing strategies. Demand capture and demand generation serve different purposes. Messaging should align with the customer's journey. Patience is key in marketing; results take time. Real-world examples illustrate the effectiveness of these strategies. Aligning marketing efforts with customer needs is vital. Continuous learning and adaptation are necessary for success. Forget the Funnel: ⁠https://forgetthefunnel.com

With the return of football season nearly upon us, Tom and Curtis are thrilled to welcome Scott Howland, Senior Manager of CRM and Marketing Research at the Detroit Lions, to the show! They discuss how the Lions brand made a shift from customer acquisition to customer retention and loyalty, as well as the importance of understanding a fan base and tailoring the fan experience. Scott shares insights on data-gathering initiatives, including surveys and focus groups, to understand fan profiles and preferences. They also touch on the impact of rebranding and the excitement surrounding the upcoming football season. Takeaways: Shifting from customer acquisition to customer retention and loyalty is crucial for long-term success. Understanding the fan base and tailoring the fan experience is essential for building strong relationships. Data gathering initiatives, such as surveys and focus groups, provide valuable insights into fan profiles and preferences. Rebranding can generate excitement and attract new fans. Giving fans what they want is key to maintaining their loyalty and engagement. Connect with Scott on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/showland3 https://bullhornsbullseyes.com/episode-37/

What is customer segmentation and why is it so critical to a brand’s ability to attract and retain loyal and enthusiastic customers or clients? Tom and Curtis welcome Emily Bielak, Director at market research consulting firm The Martec Group, to explain the basics…then delve into sophisticated approaches to understanding and serving your various customer cohorts. If you’re still thinking of your audience as a monolithic “customer base,” you’re missing out on opportunities that can really drive the bottom line! Takeaways: Companies that focus on brand strategy in addition to lead generation are more successful at Understanding your audience is crucial before starting marketing campaigns. Audience segmentation goes beyond demographics and includes emotions, needs, and behaviors. Measuring the lifetime value of a customer and the impact of referrals is essential for evaluating marketing effectiveness. A blend of qualitative and quantitative research provides a holistic understanding of the audience. Emotions play a significant role in designing a positive customer experience. Learn more about Customer Segmentation and The Martec Group: martecgroup.com Connect with Emily on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilybielak

Tom and Curtis are joined by April Martini, co-founder of Forthright People, who specializes in brand strategy, to discuss the importance of branding and brand strategy in driving successful lead generation. They emphasize the need for companies to go beyond lead generation and focus on building a strong brand that resonates with their target audiences. Tune in to hear them explore the need for ongoing brand evaluation and adaptation to stay relevant in a changing market. Takeaways: Companies that focus on brand strategy in addition to lead generation are more successful at converting leads. Brand strategy involves understanding the target audience, differentiating from competitors, and communicating the unique value proposition. Nonprofits face unique challenges in brand strategy due to multiple stakeholder groups and the need to communicate their mission effectively. Active listening and customer insights are crucial in developing a compelling brand message. Brand strategy should be revisited regularly to adapt to changes in the market and maintain relevance. Learn more about Forthright People: forthright-people.com Check out the Marketing Smarts podcast: https://forthright-people.com/resources/ Connect with April on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/april-martini-3197644/

Tom and Curtis are joined by guest Matt Griffin, CEO of Insight Analytics, to discuss the notion that “Consulting services are not sold…they’re bought.” Matt shares his insights on sales and marketing in the consulting industry, highlighting the importance of building trust and credibility with clients. They explore the value of problem-solving and creating value for clients, and the role of thought leadership and content marketing in attracting clients.  Takeaways: Building trust and credibility is crucial in attracting consulting clients. Creating value for clients and solving their problems is more important than traditional sales tactics for consultants and consulting firms. Thought leadership and content marketing can help establish expertise and attract clients who don’t yet know you. Consulting is a relationship-based business, and success comes from understanding and addressing clients' specific needs and challenges. Learn more about Incite Analytics: inciteanalytics.com Connect with Matt on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgriffin02/

Chris Jimenez, founder of Alter Orbit Coaching, joins Curtis and Tom to talk about the power of active listening when it comes to sales meetings and pitches. Chris, an executive coach to professionals in a variety of job functions and industries, emphasizes the need to truly understand the customer's needs and emotions, rather than just focusing on selling a solution. The group also highlights the value of human connection in a world that is becoming increasingly automated and transactional. The conversation touches on the significance of modeling core values within a company and creating a culture of listening.  Takeaways: Active listening is crucial in sales and marketing to understand the customer's needs and emotions. Human connection is valuable in a world that is becoming increasingly automated and transactional. Modeling core values and creating a culture of listening within a company can lead to better customer relationships. Ask open-ended questions, be present and engaged in conversations, and make the customer feel heard and understood. Learn more about Alter Orbit Coaching: https://alterorbitcoaching.com/Connect with Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherjjimenez/

Accomplished leadership trainer and coach Denise Roberts, founder of Playing to Win, joins Tom and Curtis to share how her perhaps unorthodox methods of presenting and teaching have allowed her to fortify a leading position as a premier leadership trainer, especially for emerging leaders. Denise comes to us by way of MichBusiness and the National Association of Business Resources, for which she leads multiple leadership training cohorts for emerging leaders throughout the year, known as Ignite Leadership Training's Jumpstart program. Join in to hear why Death by Powerpoint is no longer an option when presenting to groups, and follow along to adopt some new methodologies for presenting and training to better engage audiences. Be sure to consider her leadership training program to help "jump start" the leadership skills in your organization's next generation of leadership! Takeaways: PowerPoint in training and webinars often leads to information overload and lacks application. Effective trainings focus on learning by doing and encourage discussion and application of concepts. Different learners have different preferences, and it's important to cater to their needs. Young leaders are often hungry to learn and benefit from immersive and collaborative training experiences. Leadership and management are distinct but interconnected roles. Leadership focuses on understanding and empowering individuals, while management involves control and coordination of tasks. Not everyone is suited for managing people, but anyone can develop leadership skills. Some individuals may excel at coaching and supporting others without taking on managerial responsibilities. Generational differences in the workplace can be a source of conflict or a valuable opportunity for collaboration. It is important to recognize and appreciate the strengths and perspectives of each generation. Effective leadership training goes beyond providing information and emphasizes practical application and self-awareness. Learn more about Ignite Leadership Training: https://michbusiness.com/services/training/ Connect with Denise on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deniserobertssalespartners Learn more about Playing to Win: playtowintogether.com

This week’s guest is Chris Langille, Founder of Advisor Evolved, a digital marketing agency specifically serving independent insurance agencies (though not exclusively). Tom, Curtis, and Chris discuss the benefits Chris has realized by niching down in the digital marketing industry, particularly in the service insurance agencies. They emphasize the importance of focusing on the most profitable lines of business and targeting lower hanging fruit in advertising campaigns. They also highlight the need for a well-functioning sales process and the importance of aligning sales and marketing efforts. The conversation touches on the challenges of working with limited budgets and the need for a comprehensive backend process to maximize the return on investment. Plus: what is the current state and potential future for AI in digital advertising and marketing? Topics + Takeaways: Niching down vertically or horizontally allows for the creation of scalable products and services and enables specialization in a specific industry or vertical. Focusing on the most profitable lines of business and targeting lower hanging fruit in advertising campaigns can lead to more effective and efficient marketing efforts. Having a well-functioning sales process and aligning sales and marketing efforts are crucial for maximizing the return on investment in advertising. Working with limited budgets requires careful planning and prioritization of marketing activities, as well as a comprehensive backend process to ensure leads are effectively converted into customers. While AI is an exciting development in the digital marketing industry, it is important to approach it with caution and consider its limitations and potential impact on the industry. Chris’s website: advisorevolved.com Connect with Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrislangille119