Carrot and Stick

AI is moving faster than most recruitment and staffing businesses can keep up with and the leaders who don't act now risk being left behind for good.In this episode of the Carrot & Stick Podcast, host Derry sits down with Rob; a 25-year recruitment industry veteran who spent 17 years building his own agency before pivoting hard into AI, now running his own AI consultancy, Lyra Labs. Rob has spent the last two years coaching C-suite leaders, board members, and VPs across some of the biggest firms in the world, and he's blunt about what he's seeing: a huge knowledge gap, a lot of hype fatigue, and businesses that are 12-24 months behind without realising it.

David Annable bootstrapped Franklin Fitch from a one-man office in Windsor to 65 people across London, Cardiff, Frankfurt and Austin - but only after his first business failed.In this episode, David joins Derry to unpack the lessons from 15 years of building an international recruitment firm: why he launched in Germany first, how you keep one culture alive across three countries, the "commitment culture" non-negotiables he hires for, and why Franklin Fitch invites failure - as long as it's the micro kind.They also get into AI adoption without the hype, the pivot to predictable revenue that drove the firm's best-ever quarter, and the pre-mortem exercise David swears by for anyone thinking of starting their own agency.Hosted by Derry Holt, CEO & Co-Founder of OneUp Sales.

What if the corporate leadership playbook has it all wrong?In this episode, we sit down with Charlie Ginzburg, Managing Director at Michael Page overseeing Chicago and LA, to break down the hard truths of scaling a recruitment operation. From his early days as a cigarette salesman to managing a team of 120 people, Charlie shares a masterclass on what it actually takes to build a sustainable, long-term career in the industry.We dive deep into why he openly champions "micromanagement" (hint: it’s not what you think) and why he believes corporate professionals secretly crave structure over unguided freedom.Whether you're an individual contributor wondering if management is the right path, or an agency founder struggling to scale past the 30 employee mark, Charlie’s contrarian perspectives will challenge how you look at corporate growthKey Topics Covered:The Big vs. Small Recruitment Debate: The fallacies of startup agility vs. the massive long-term resource advantages of a PLC.Eating the "Boring Salad": Why true discipline within your niche requires turning down short-term wins for long-term equity.The Case for Micromanagement: How providing intense framework and structure actually empowers teams and accelerates trust.Are Big Billers "Terrorists"? Navigating the delicate balance between catering to high individual contributors and maintaining company standards.The Three Distinct Jobs: Transitioning from the "selfish" mindset of a biller, to the "selfless" role of a manager, to the long-term vision of a director.🔔 Subscribe for more deep-dive interviews with recruitment leaders.💬 Drop a comment below: Do you agree with Charlie’s take on structure, or do you prefer total autonomy?Connect with us:🔔 Subscribe for more deep-dive interviews with recruitment leaders like Charlie.💬 Drop a comment below: Do you agree with Charlie’s take on structure, or do you prefer total autonomy? Your voice matters, and we'd love to hear it!

We took Carrot & Stick on the road to the Recruitment Agency Expo 2026. We grabbed the mics, and asked 10 of the industry's sharpest leaders the same 5 questions — on top-biller habits, AI, the human touch, and how they'd start an agency today.Rapid-fire, honest answers, with Derry's take after each. The one thing they all came back to? Relationships.—🎙️ Hosted by Derry Holt, CEO & Co-Founder of OneUp Sales.👉 Enjoyed it? Follow the show and leave us a rating — it helps more recruiters find us.—OneUp Sales helps recruitment and sales teams make performance visible, motivating and repeatable — live leaderboards, competitions, dashboards and reporting in one place.Book a demo: https://oneupsales.com/request-a-demo—Timestamps:00:00 — Intro: why we did this01:06 — What habit would you take from a top biller and give to a rookie?05:55 — What's one thing about recruitment you hope NEVER changes?08:34 — What's one thing you hope DOES change?12:22 — What's the biggest challenge facing recruitment over the next 12 months?18:15 — What advice would you give someone starting an agency today?20:41 — Final thoughts#Recruitment #RecruitmentAgency #Sales #SalesLeadership

Recruitment has always rewarded specialists — but how do you stay niche when you're scaling across multiple markets? On this episode of Carrot & Stick, host Derry Holt sits down with Chris Atiyah, CEO and Co-founder of Engtal — a Chicago-based firm that has scaled to 50 people across three specialist brands with zero attrition in over eight months. Chris shares his journey from Portsmouth to the Midwest and how a relentless focus on the right people, the right markets, and the right technology has built one of recruitment's most quietly impressive businesses.If you want to know what a successful, AI-enabled recruitment business looks like in practice, this episode is for you.

How do you build a recruitment agency that not only scales but survives the founder’s eventual exit? On this episode of Carrot & Stick, host Derry Holt dives deep with Sam Crisp, the former founder of the highly successful SaaS recruitment agency, Arama. Sam shares his explosive journey of growing a business to 60 people and then making the strategic decision to step away. The discussion tackles the critical mistakes in early-stage scaling, the hidden dangers of the 'shiny client' syndrome, and why process, systems, and data integrity are the true architecture of long-term success.Discover the framework Sam now uses at his new consultancy, Axonas, to optimize internal talent teams—lessons learned directly from a decade on the front line.

Martin Doig and Robbie Sturgess, founders of Verto People, join Derry Holt to explain how their 99% perm agency not only survived a pandemic launch but rapidly scaled to 38 employees by prioritizing relentless daily Business Development (BD) over fleeting contract trends.They share their controversial stance on cold calling, detail their data-driven hiring methodology, and unpack the crucial lessons learned from scaling too fast into unfamiliar markets like Germany.Key Takeaways:- "Cold Calling is alive": The controversial view that BD must be done every day, non-negotiable.- The Data-Driven Hire: Using psychometrics to vet recruiters for sales aptitude, resulting in an 80%+ success rate.- Scaling Lessons: Why they intentionally pulled out of the German market and software niches to focus resources entirely on explosive US engineering growth.- The 8-Touch Rule: How Verto ensures success by following a highly targeted, multi-touch BD process for every single candidate.

Derry Holt talks with recruitment ops expert Saeed Bhor about the common operational mistakes agencies make. They cover the crucial difference between performance and recruitment data, why "process over tech" is his mantra, how to navigate the crowded Rectech market, and what to look for in a consultant. An episode packed with practical advice for improving agency efficiency.

Derry Holt chats with Laura Clark, owner of OA Recruitment Solutions. Laura shares her journey from a Yellow Pages start to buying out her mother's £20M turnover business. They dive into OA's unique "Back on Track" performance plans, her "magnet" hiring philosophy, the importance of L&D, and her take on remote work. A truly insightful episode on leadership and culture.

Derry Holt talks with Elliot Dell, CEO of Salt Recruitment Group, about their unique global M&A expansion model, the power of authentic founder-led branding, his journey into coaching, and a practical take on AI in recruitment. An inspiring episode on building a global business with heart and vision.

Derry Holt talks with David Morel, founder of the global recruitment firm Tiger Recruitment. David shares 20+ years of insights on scaling internationally (including his recent move to Dubai), leading by example, using data effectively, the real role of AI in recruitment, and maintaining a strong culture. Essential listening for agency leaders on longevity and growth.

Derry Holt talks with Sachin Ruparelia, CEO of Camino Partners, about scaling a recruitment business in tough times, the metrics that really count, and fostering a high-performance culture. Sachin also shares his inspiring personal journey of transformation, therapy, and finding his 'why' in family and positive impact. Essential listening on leadership, resilience, and motivation.

This week, Derry Holt talks to Chris O'Connell about his incredible journey building a £25M recruitment business, navigating a traumatic Private Equity (PE) exit, and finding strength in vulnerability. They dive deep into authentic leadership (why being 'real' works), the pitfalls of over-automating BD, and Chris's love-hate relationship with LinkedIn. A raw, honest conversation packed with lessons for anyone in recruitment.

Is recruitment training overrated? Ben Browning (Resonant, Recruiting Better Podcast) argues process is king. He joins Derry Holt to share insights from surveying 500+ agencies on BD, moving beyond transactional sales, crafting a sales story, and reframing rejection.#recruitment #salesprocess #BD #salestraining #consultativeselling #podcast

Top billers don't always make great operators. Hishem Azzouz (Hector, The Recruitment Mentors Podcast) joins Derry Holt to discuss this challenge, and share insights on building a sales-led culture, closing skill gaps, and why human connection still matters in recruitment. #recruitment #sales #skills #leadership #podcast

Can AI replace recruiters? Andy Hallett (Recspand, Recwired, ex-SThree) joins Derry Holt on the Carrot & Stick podcast to tackle this crucial question and much more. Andy, with over 25 years in recruitment, challenges conventional thinking and offers a practical roadmap for agencies navigating a rapidly changing landscape.Andy, a veteran of multiple recruitment cycles, shares his insights on how to build back differently after the recent boom and bust. He discusses the shift towards contract work, the implications of new UK employment laws, and the essential role of human connection in a world increasingly driven by data and automation. He is not afraid to share a controversial take on the future of recruitment. Learn why "just surviving" isn't a strategy, and how to build for sustainable growth, and discover practical strategies for leveraging data and AI to empower your recruiters, not replace them.About Andy Hallett:Andy Hallett has over 25 years of experience in the recruitment industry. He spent over two decades at SThree, a global recruitment firm, where he held various leadership positions, including Investment Director. He is currently the Managing Director of Recspand, a consulting firm that helps recruitment businesses grow and scale. He is also the co-founder of Recwired, a network for recruitment founders.Subscribe to the Carrot & Stick podcast for more insights on recruitment leadership, motivation, and performance!

Joe Bungey, Operations Director at Mustard, shares his unique perspective on recruitment leadership, emphasizing the importance of data-driven decisions and a stoic mindset. Discover how Joe's "big picture" approach has fueled his 10-year journey in the industry. Subscribe to Carrot & Stick for more expert guidance on sales performance management and motivation in the recruitment industry.

Will Grashoff, Founder and CEO of OxSeven, joins Carrot & Stick for a candid conversation about the challenges and rewards of leadership in the recruitment industry. Will shares the mistakes he's made as a manager, the lessons he's learned about accountability and data, and his strategies for maintaining a healthy work-life balance while growing a successful business. Don't miss out on this insightful and entertaining episode! Subscribe to Carrot & Stick now and hit the notification bell so you don't miss future episodes. 🔔 #CarrotAndStick #RecruitmentPodcast #WillGrashoff #Leadership #Season3

Greg Savage, recruitment legend and industry veteran, joins Carrot & Stick to share his unfiltered insights on leadership, coaching, and building a high-performing recruitment team. Expect some controversial takes, actionable strategies, and a healthy dose of tough love to help you navigate the ever-changing recruitment landscape. Don't miss out on this game-changing episode! Subscribe to Carrot & Stick now and hit the notification bell so you don't miss future episodes. 🔔 Want more recruitment insights? Check out Greg's book, "The Savage Truth," and follow him on LinkedIn. #CarrotAndStick #RecruitmentPodcast #GregSavage #Season3

Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with James Osborne, Founder and CEO of The Recruitment Network, as he shares his unique perspective on the importance of personal purpose, the transformative power of empathy, and the ongoing revolution in the recruitment industry. Key Takeaways: Discover Your Purpose: Learn why understanding your personal purpose is crucial for success in sales and leadership. Empathy as a Sales Superpower: Discover how cultivating empathy can enhance your ability to connect with clients and candidates. Navigating the Recruitment Revolution: Gain insights into the evolving recruitment landscape, from the impact of AI to the changing workforce demographics. Optimization is Key: Hear James's advice on building a robust and adaptable recruitment business in the face of constant change.

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, we delve into the entrepreneurial journey of Alex Elliott, co-founder of Liquid Personnel, a healthcare contract recruitment business that achieved remarkable success, scaling to over 140 staff and nine figures in revenue before its acquisition in 2016. Alex shares invaluable insights gleaned from his experience, speaking of the critical role of process and data in scaling a business, the importance of maintaining high hiring standards, and the evolving landscape of recruitment in the digital age. Key takeaways: The Power of Process and Data: Learn how documenting and refining core sales processes can drive efficiency and enable seamless scaling. Setting the Bar High: Discover why prioritising top-quartile talent and fostering a culture of excellence is crucial for sustainable growth. Navigating Change: Gain insights into the shifting dynamics of the recruitment industry, from the impact of remote work to the rise of AI and automation.

Join us for an insightful conversation with Elaine Tyler, CEO of Venatrix, a specialist recruiter for fast-growth SaaS businesses. Elaine shares her journey from graduate to CEO, her secrets to building a high-performance culture, and her candid perspective on the challenges and rewards of leadership.

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, we sit down with Alex Dick, the CEO of Alexander Lyons Solutions (ALS), a fully remote recruitment company. Alex shares his insights on building a successful remote team, his unique approach to LinkedIn, and the often-overlooked challenges of being a CEO.

Join us in the vibrant city of Austin, Texas as we chat with Ross Fraser, Founder and CEO of Connecting Experts. Ross shares the inside scoop on Connecting Experts' strategic move into the United States, their unique approach to building high-performance teams, and the pivotal role of an "expectant culture."Don't miss out! Hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications so you never miss an episode of Carrot & Stick.

In this episode, we've got Spencer Pike Lyon, Head of L&D and Sales Operations at Discover International joining us. Spencer's got some interesting ideas. He'll be chatting about why L&D should be working hand-in-hand with the sales team to drive up results. And don't forget the power of information! Spencer believes in using data to see what's working and what's not. That way, we can improve our sales approach and stop wasting time.Change can be tricky, that's for sure. Spencer's got experience with implementing training programs that actually make a difference. So, if you're looking to boost your sales and build a culture of continuous improvement, then this episode's for you.

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, Derry Holt sits down with Ashley Rice, a consultant with expertise in leadership, management, data, and analytics. With over 23 years of experience in the recruitment industry, Ashley shares his insights on what motivates people, with a focus on the evolving expectations of Gen Z in the workplace. They also delve into the critical role of data and analytics in driving sales performance and empowering managers to make informed decisions. Tune in for this insightful conversation on navigating the complexities of sales performance, management, and motivation in today's dynamic business landscape.

In this episode, recruitment mogul Gary Goldsmith and co-founder of the RDLC Pirates (fresh from the Celebrity Big Brother House) joins Derry to discuss the art and science of building a successful recruitment business. They delve into the shift towards contract work, the importance of data-driven decision-making, and the power of repeatable models for scaling. Gary shares his unique perspective on promoting top billers to managers, the need for effective business development, and the importance of setting high expectations.

In this episode, recruitment expert Patrick Waites shares his first-hand experience of expanding his UK-based business into the US market. He reveals the unique challenges and opportunities he encountered, the strategies he used to overcome obstacles, and the lessons he learned along the way. Key takeaways: Gain a comprehensive understanding of the US recruitment landscape and how it differs from the UK. Learn how to navigate legal and regulatory requirements, cultural differences, and competitive dynamics. Discover effective strategies for building relationships with US clients and candidates. Get actionable advice on marketing your services, adapting your business model, and managing a remote team. Hear inspiring stories of resilience, perseverance, and ultimate success in the face of adversity. Whether you're a UK recruiter considering US expansion or simply curious about the challenges and rewards of international business growth, this episode is a must-listen.

Kamal Ladwa, Founder of Syun Consulting and expert in recruitment tech, drops knowledge bombs on automating for maximum efficiency, data-driven candidate sourcing, the power of CRMs and integrated tech, and building scalable systems.

Navigating tough markets? Get expert advice from Dualta Doherty, recruitment leader and founder of RecWired and Recwired Plus. Learn how to motivate your team, build strong client relationships, and adapt to challenging conditions.

Looking for ways to elevate performance and keep your best talent? In the latest episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, we explored some game-changing strategies with Edmund Blogg from RecruitHub. We discussed how OKRs bring focus, why leadership extends beyond salary, and how lifestyle alignment boosts staff retention.

In this episode, we sit down with Richard, the CEO of Skillsearch, who shares his 27-year journey from an accidental entry into recruitment to leading a successful business specialising in enterprise tech and the video game space. Richard delves into the nuances of the industry, the impact of COVID on gaming, and the recent challenges faced with layoffs.

Tom's going to give us the inside scoop on what it's like to start your own recruitment company, especially in a challenging year like 2023. He's also going to let us in on how he runs a fully remote company (which is pretty unique in recruitment). Plus, he'll talk about his management style and how he gets the best out of his team – whether they're seasoned veterans or fresh talent. Oh, and I might have mentioned the unbelievable horror stories he's got up his sleeve...

Last episode of the year and nearly Christmas so the Marketing Team have forced Derry, as well OneUp's own Chris Aitken, VP of Sales and Marc Parsons, SDR Manager to partake in some festive themed chat about sales management and motivation. We've even been nice and given everyone a super luxury bag of Christmas cheer. Heads up this is our last episode for a couple of months as we take a break, get some new guests lined up and do a few upgrades our end. Enjoy your holidays and see you in the new year 🎉

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, Derry sits down with Reece Warren, an experienced professional in the esports, tech and recruitment industries. Currently Associate Director at Discovered MENA, Reece shares his insights on managing people, the challenges of working in a new country, and when it's time to move on. With plenty of stories and advice, this episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in sales and recruitment. Tune in now to gain valuable knowledge and inspiration from Reece Warren's journey.

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, Derry sits down with Michael Hansen, co-founder and CEO of Growth Genie, a sales consultancy for SaaS companies. They dive deep into the world of sales management and leadership, discussing topics such as writing playbooks, qualification frameworks, and effective training and coaching for sales reps. Michael shares his expertise and top tips for aspiring managers and sales leaders. Plus, he talks about his own podcast, The Cosmic Bridge, which explores the theme of balance in various aspects of life, including sales.

Dougie Loan, Chief Revenue Officer at Sourcewhale, joins Derry Holt on the Carrot & Stick podcast to discuss how to build a revenue generating machine. Dougie shares his insights on how to create a scalable sales process, how to hire and train a top-performing sales team, and how to build relationships with key customers.

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, host Derry sits down with Ben Wallin, co-founder of Edison Smart.. They discuss the evolution of the modern recruiter and salesperson, the impact of technology on the industry, and the importance of real-time data and KPIs. Ben also shares insights on cultural differences between the UK and US in hiring and how to mitigate them.

In this episode, we have a special guest, Hitesh Kapadjo, who shares his insights on leadership and self-development in the software sales industry. Hitesh discusses the importance of reaching out to your network, continuing to upskill, and finding time for personal growth. He also shares his recommendations for influencers to follow on LinkedIn for valuable content. Join us as we dive into this engaging conversation and gain valuable insights from Hitesh's experiences. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and follow us on LinkedIn for more great content.

In this episode, Derry chats to Ollie Sharpe - VP of Sales at Abacum, Board Advisor of OneUp Sales. We talk about common problems for good time leaders, making mistakes, hiring great people and way way more. This one is absolutely packed with value. Music from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL

In this episode of the Carrot and Stick podcast, Derry sits down with Richard Smith, VP Sales at Allego, to discuss important areas for sales managers and leaders to level up their impact. They cover topics such as coaching beyond call conversations, the power shift towards buyers, and the importance of recognition. Richard shares valuable insights and tips, along with entertaining stories and book recommendations. Music from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL

In this episode, Derry chats with Bryan Mulry, an Account Manager at SalesLoft, about his journey into sales and his experiences in the industry. We discuss the importance of authenticity, the role of empathy and listening in sales, and the value of internal branding for career progression. Bryan shares his insights on what it takes to succeed in sales and how he has progressed from being an SDR to becoming the youngest account manager at SalesLoft. Tune in to gain valuable insights into the world of sales from Bryan's perspective. Music from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL

In this episode of our podcast, we dive into the importance of learning from mistakes and the value of failure in personal and professional growth. Kevin Beales, Founder of My Sales Coach, shares his own stories of getting things wrong and the lessons he's learned along the way. We also discuss the challenges of leadership and how to build high-performance teams. Music from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL

In this episode, Derry speaks with Alex Gilbert, the L&D Manager at 11 Investments. Alex shares insights on onboarding, training, and retaining employees in the recruitment industry. He brings his high energy and enthusiasm to the conversation, and even reveals his secret identity as an amateur pro wrestler. If you're looking for tips on improving employee success and retention, this episode is packed with valuable nuggets of knowledge. Grab a Red Bull and tune in for a fun and informative chat. Music from Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL

In this episode, we speak with Ciara, the Sales Manager at Odro. We explore her journey in sales, from her start at Enterprise Rent-A-Car to her current role in a tech company. Ciara shares her insights on safety and accountability in building a successful team and how forming relationships with individual contributors can help close deals with senior decision makers. We also have a good laugh as Ciara discovers that swearing is allowed on podcasts. Tune in to learn more about Ciara's experiences and perspectives on sales management and motivation. Music from #Uppbeat: https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL

In this first episode, we speak to Donna Owen, VP of Revenue at Odro about her learnings through her career about such as how to motivate a team through tough times and handling underperformance. Check out Odro at https://www.odro.co.uk/ Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/mountaineer/refresh License code: JXQIFAODRJEGGBRL