Second Nature

Hilary Fenet just pulled off one of the most talked-about brand activations at UTMB — a full hotel takeover in Chamonix for Rabbit, complete with a clubhouse for the week, community breakfasts, and an espresso cart in the parking lot. But the company behind it, Halo, started with a much smaller and much less glamorous moment: Hilary booking a hotel on the wrong side of a mountain before a race in the Italian Dolomites. In this conversation, Hilary walks through how a bad hotel booking turned into a genuine business insight — brands were building incredible experiences for their sponsored athletes, but ignoring the people actually buying their gear. She breaks down how Halo builds these activations from the ground up, the data that makes the case for in-person experience over pure digital marketing, and what it actually takes to scale something this bespoke to multiple events happening around the world at once. Second Nature is proudly supported by Halo and Popfly: Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Show Notes: Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Hilary Fenet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-fenet-b2b2358/ Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/ Monica DeVreese: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monid/ Dolomite Skyrace: https://www.dolomitemountains.com/en/resources/dolomites-tips/sky-race-in-the-dolomites Aravaipa: https://www.aravaiparunning.com/ Citadel Investment Group: https://www.citadel.com/ SAFE Note: https://carta.com/learn/startups/fundraising/convertible-securities/safes/ Athletic Brewing on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZyMp1XsPs BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Rabbit: https://www.runinrabbit.com/ Theo of Golden (Book): https://amzn.to/4xliEF3 Climatic: https://www.climatichealth.com/ War of Art (Book): https://amzn.to/4h2vkuE Shoe Dog (Book): https://amzn.to/4A5RSmL Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Taylor Hoekstra spent years selling products through an unlikely channel — farmer YouTubers — years before anyone called it the "creator economy." That experience taught him something most people in the outdoor industry hadn't figured out yet, and it planted the seed for Popfly. Before writing a line of code, Taylor spent two years and roughly 500 conversations validating the idea, testing a simple question: would people actually pay for this? In this conversation, recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, Taylor walks through the classic cold-start problem every founder building a two-sided marketplace has to solve — get supply first, use supply to pull in demand, then reinvest in supply relentlessly. He also gets honest about the early years trying to convince outdoor brands that working with creators was worth their marketing budget, long before it was an easy sell. Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Taylor Hoekstra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorhoekstra/ Popfly: https://www.popfly.com Camp Chef: https://www.campchef.com/ Cold Start Problem: https://amzn.to/4qTtHEb BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Outdoor Retailer: https://outdoorretailer.com/ Amazfit T-Rex 3 Pro: https://us.amazfit.com/ Shackelton's Voyage: https://amzn.to/4qRwmOB 57 Hours: https://57hours.com/ Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Today, we're sharing something a little different. My longtime friend Rebecca Rusch invited me onto her podcast, What's The Rusch, to talk about navigating transitions: the ones we choose, and the ones that choose us. Rebecca and I have known each other for over 20 years, since my days as her athlete manager at Red Bull, and this conversation covers a lot of ground: my own path from Red Bull into building Super Rider and Second Nature, the behind-the-scenes story of helping athletes see the light, and some honest reflections on loss, reinvention, and figuring out what comes next. This isn't a regular Second Nature episode, but it felt too good not to share. Enjoy the conversation, and if you like what you hear, go check out the rest of What's The Rusch right here: https://www.rebeccarusch.com/whatstherusch

Second Nature Listener Survey: https://surveymars.com/q/inCNkLas9 Alyssa Olenick, known online as Doc Lyss, has spent the last eight years building a seven-figure fitness and training business while simultaneously earning a PhD in exercise physiology. She started with $35-a-month one-on-one coaching over Google Sheets and a MacBook that literally overheated. Today she runs a training app, a coaching team, and a quarter-million-follower community built on a simple philosophy: talk to your customers, act fast, and never stop iterating. In this conversation, Alyssa breaks down what it actually took to build a business that didn't feel real until nearly a decade in, why she turned down far more brand deals than she accepted, and what "world-building" really means in modern marketing: the idea that people buy into an identity, not just a product. She also gets candid about the hardest season of her business, the difference between growing a business and running a company, and why she deliberately paused an entire second brand for years because she knew she couldn't do both well at once. This episode is supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Alyssa Olenick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alyssaolenick/ DocLyssFitness: https://www.instagram.com/doclyssfitness/ The Lyss Method: https://quiz-thelyssmethod.com/ DocLyss Newsletter: https://substack.com/@doclyssfitness DocLyss YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@doclyssfitness Alex Hormozi: https://www.instagram.com/hormozi/?hl=en Shelby Sapp: https://shelbysapp.com/ Codie Sanchez: https://codiesanchez.com/ Yeti: https://www.backcountry.com/brand/yeti ShopMy - Alyssa's Storefront: https://shopmy.us/shop/doclyssfitness NoBull: https://nobullproject.com/ Ozlo Sleepbuds: https://ozlosleep.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: SENIQ: https://seniqbrand.com/ Halfdays: https://www.halfdays.com/ Suunto Race 2: https://www.backcountry.com/suunto-race-2-sport-watch Courtney - Post Hardrock Interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQYa_fTw01w HoverAir X1 ProMax: https://us.hoverair.com/products/hoverair-x1-self-flying-camera-combo Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Second Nature Listener Survey: https://surveymars.com/q/inCNkLas9 Gary Vernon, Scott King, and Aimee Ross have been building what is now one of the most significant mountain bike destinations in the world. What started in 2006 as a five-mile trail system in Bentonville, Arkansas has grown into 600 miles of trail across the region, 1,200 miles statewide, and most recently, a lift-access bike park with its own chairlift, restaurant, and membership model. In this conversation, they walk through the design principles that made it work: building for beginners first, focusing on progression, and the decision to build within city limits rather than isolating trails on private land. They also break down the economics of trail building compared to traditional recreational infrastructure, what it actually took to build a 38-trail bike park in under two years, and the advice they give every community that calls asking "how do we become the next Bentonville"...which is, simply, don't try. Second Nature is proudly supported by Popfly and Halo: Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Halo: https://www.poweredbyhalo.com Show Notes: Scott King: https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-scott-king-9991a4/ Aimee Ross: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aimeeross/ Gary Vernon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-vernon-ii-58253a7/ Tom Walton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-walton-40b9792ba/ OZ Bike Park: https://oztrailsbikepark.com/ OZ Trails: https://www.oztrails.com/ Discovery Loop: https://www.visitbentonville.com/blog/stories/post/ride-the-loop-bentonvilles-scenic-bike-route/ IMBA: https://www.imba.com/ Transform Your Community (Gary's TED Talk): https://youtu.be/yXJkWIeNP6g?si=p8frsQWhW7CzqJnB IMBA TrailLab: https://www.imba.com/trail-labs Gravity Logic: https://www.whistlergravitylogic.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Cone valve suspension: https://dirtbikemagazine.com/cone-valve-suspension/ Sierra Nevada NA: https://sierranevada.com/brews/trail-pass-ipa Triumph Daytona: https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/motorcycles/sport/daytona-660 The Design Way (Book): https://amzn.to/4zjfoMS Marin Alpine Trail EXR (Aaron's Bike): https://marinbikes.com/collections/alpine-trail-e Fun Stuff: Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Annijke Wade became an adaptive mountain biker in 2021 after a downhill accident left her with a spinal cord injury. Four years later, she's racing at events like SBT Gravel and Sea Otter Classic, running a nonprofit called Dirt Bound that develops para athletes, building a content strategy sophisticated enough to land her in a Meta Creator program, and already planning for goals she can't quite reveal yet for 2027 and 2028. In this conversation, Annijke and Aaron dig into what's changed in adaptive mountain biking over the last five years, how she thinks about building a career that doesn't depend on race results or viral moments, and what it actually takes to convince race organizers to include para athletes. They also get into her content strategy — from 822 followers to 10,000, the loop format, and working with Meta on creator growth — and what brands should look for when building long-term athlete partnerships. Show Notes: Annijke Wade: https://www.instagram.com/geodesicdome/ Bowhead Bikes: https://www.bowheadcorp.com/ Martyn Ashton: https://www.instagram.com/martynashton/ Rideable Now: https://www.rideablenow.com/ Rebecca's Private Idaho: https://www.rebeccasprivateidaho.com/ Annijke's Shreddit Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE8_RpvGO6c Dirt Bound: https://www.dirtboundcycling.com/ Dialed Creator Program: https://www.skool.com/dialedcreator/about BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Lael Wilcox: https://www.instagram.com/laelwilcox/ Matador - refillable toothpaste: https://www.matadorequipment.com/products/refillable-toothpaste-tubes Ozlo Sleepbuds: https://ozlosleep.com/ TRTL Neckwrap: https://amzn.to/4pVM8Y0 Any One Of Us (Film): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kKJdHMJJJU Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia #podcast #secondnature #outdoor #businesspodcast #outdoorpodcast #industry #athlete #business

Jill Nazeer is the brand marketing manager at Salsa Cycles and one of the most experienced athlete and content marketers in the bike industry. Before Salsa, she was at Diamondback during one of the most interesting periods in mountain bike content history: when Seth from Berm Peak was just a guy with a cool YouTube channel, and Eric Porter was figuring out what adventure content could look like. She helped build what became one of the most effective creator rosters in the industry, almost by accident. In this conversation, Jill walks through what she learned about athlete marketing at Diamondback, how Salsa's relationship with parent company QBP gives them an unusual data advantage in the industry, and why she spent two years making penny farthing jokes before becoming a true believer in 32-inch wheels. She also gets into what brands get wrong about the DTC vs. bike shop debate, why the bike shop still matters more than most people think, and the Columbia Flat Earther campaign — which might be the most creative brand marketing move of the year. Show Notes: Jill Nazeer: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-nazeer-a05b554/ Salsa Cycles: https://www.salsacycles.com/ Eric Porter: https://www.youtube.com/@PorterMTB Berm Peak: https://www.youtube.com/@SethsBikeHacks Mike Hopkins - Dream Ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn1dcZTSAzk Micayla Gatto: https://www.instagram.com/micaylagatto/ QBP: https://www.qbp.com/ Surly: https://surlybikes.com/ Salsa Fargo 32: https://www.salsacycles.com/collections/fargo-32 Unbound Gravel: https://www.unboundgravel.com/ Wanderosa: https://www.salsacycles.com/collections/wanderosa SENIQ on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/LUkiabROzdg BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Columbia Expedition Impossible: https://www.columbia.com/expedition-impossible.html Backcountry Slickrock Kit: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/1G2WPB Wild Rye: https://wild-rye.com/ Shredly: https://shredly.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia #podcast #secondnature #outdoor #businesspodcast #outdoorpodcast #industry #athlete #business

Tina and Madison started SENIQ after nearly a decade building careers at Victoria's Secret and Backcountry — and it turns out the most important lessons they carried into their brand came from a lingerie company, not an outdoor retailer. Growing up in a world where women sat on every leadership team and product innovation was the quarterback of the business shaped how they think about building SENIQ from the ground up. In this conversation, the co-founders of SENIQ walk through the full story — writing their business plan on a template they found online, moving into their parents' basements in Columbus, Ohio to launch, and trusting their gut to launch a ski collection six months in, despite every mentor telling them not to. They also get into how low-res iPhone content consistently outperformed expensive campaign shoots, why co-founders who disagree on everything make better brands, and how to figure out which voices to ignore when you're building something nobody has built before. Second Nature is proudly supported by: Halo: https://poweredbyhalo.com/ Popfly (for brands): https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly (for creators): https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Show Notes: Tina Thompson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valentinathompson/ Madison Hilson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madison-hilson/ SENIQ: https://seniqbrand.com/ Backcountry: https://www.backcountry.com Business Plan Template: https://offers.hubspot.com/business-plan-template SENIQ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seniq Mattie Sims on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJl441qcZLk BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Primally Pure Deodorant: https://primallypure.com/ Gorpgirls x Oboz: https://obozfootwear.com/pages/oboz-x-gorp-girls Never Slept - Nike Knicks Ad: https://www.instagram.com/reels/DZjR_dosb9x/ Dream Crazier - Nike Ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWfX5jeF6k4 Garmin 970: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/L0rY60 Detours With Valentina: https://valentinathompson.substack.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Tommie Runz started running in 2018, a year after choosing sobriety, and began documenting the journey simply because it felt good to share progress and get encouragement. Seven years later, he's built an audience of over 30,000 through nothing but consistency and honesty — no viral moments, no big follower jumps, just a steady climb built entirely on trust. In this conversation, Tommie and Aaron pick up where they left off after a live panel at TrailCon, digging into what it actually looks like to build a career as an athlete-creator without compromising who you are. Tommie breaks down why he's turned down "ambassador" deals that undervalue creators, how relationships with brands often take years rather than emails to develop, and the moment he realized his content needed to sound exactly like him or it wasn't worth doing at all. Second Nature is supported by Popfly: Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Show Notes: Tommie Runz: https://www.tommierunz.com/ Tommie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Tommie_Runz Tommie on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Tommie_Runz PR Project (Podcast): https://www.youtube.com/c/PRProject/videos Asics: https://www.asics.com/ Mack Baker (Asics): https://www.linkedin.com/in/mack-baker-b6218717/ Cosign Creatives: https://cosignmag.com/cosign-creative-agency/ Tommie Runz Show (Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tommie-runz-show/id1538233660 Broken Arrow: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/ Tommie on Freetrail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7lJd4t12a8 TrailCon: https://www.trailconference.com BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Currently: https://currentlyrunning.com/ Best Running Podcasts: https://bestrunningpodcasts.com/ Precision Fuel & Hydration: https://www.precisionhydration.com/ Aaronnomics: https://www.instagram.com/aaronnomics/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Steve Holmberg and Matt Trappe are back for a debrief on one of the biggest weeks in trail running — Broken Arrow, Western States, and everything in between at TrailCon. Steve breaks down his state-of-the-industry analysis: why trail running's rebrand from "ultra running" unlocked massive new participation, why the sport is about to fragment the way mountain biking did decades ago, and why brands chasing "max" specs are about to pivot to "right" specs built specifically for trail. Then Matt takes listeners inside a project few people got to experience firsthand — a house in Tahoe built with Skratch and other partners, designed to bring brand leaders, athletes, and creators together without competitive walls. He explains the intention behind it, what happened when 37 of 40 people in the room spoke up during an unscripted conversation, and why some of the best moments of the week happened specifically because they weren't being recorded. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/ Matt Trappe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-trappe/ Insight Accelerator: https://insight-accelerator.com/ Matter of Brand: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/ TrailCon: https://www.trailconference.com Tommie Runz: https://www.instagram.com/tommie_runz/ Salomon TV - Trail Dogs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05sUhlxFBk0 Salomon TV - Bill Dooper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF8ZdwpnTLQ WSJ on Trail Runners: https://www.wsj.com/style/fashion/trail-running-footwear-9d39a2c6 Broken Arrow: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/ ACG: https://www.nike.com/acg Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/ Amazfit: https://us.amazfit.com/ Skratch: https://www.skratchlabs.com/ SF Run Co: https://store.sfrunco.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Hilary Yang "Raise The Bar": https://www.thehilaryann.com/raise-the-bar Marin Rift Zone EL XR: https://marinbikes.com/products/2025-rift-zone-el-xr-int Golden Hour Racing Shirt: https://auteursportif.com/collections/golden-hour-racing-capsule Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Matt Oesterle built his first company, Callisto Media, from zero to $85 million in revenue by using data to disrupt the book publishing industry. Then he sold it to Penguin Random House and asked himself: what's the next industry that hasn't been forced to evolve? The answer was camping — an industry whose biggest brands were founded in the 1960s and haven't changed much since. In this conversation, Matt walks through the framework he uses to pick businesses, how he designed the Ramble campground experience from scratch, and what it takes to build a hospitality brand that maintains a 4.98-star review score while scaling to 100+ locations. He also gets into the role of data versus instinct in entrepreneurship, why type two fun is a hiring requirement for his team, and why you don't have to be a sociopath to build something great. If you've ever looked at an industry and thought "someone should fix this" — this is the episode for you. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Matt Oesterle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oesterle/ Ramble Campgrounds: https://ramble.camp/ Next Ventures: https://www.nextventures.com/ Mel Strong on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcjUzrM3Jg Callisto Media: https://www.sourcebooks.com/callisto HipCamp: https://www.hipcamp.com/ Net Promoter Score (Term): https://www.qualtrics.com/articles/customer-experience/net-promoter-score/ Solo Stove: https://www.solostove.com/ Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/ The Everything Store (Book): https://amzn.to/4vpM8kx BPC - Brand, Product, Content: RAB: https://rab.equipment/ The Algorithm (Book): https://amzn.to/4aOzKTJ MFM Pod - The Algorithm Author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG4TwQEYdBY New Yorker Profile - Sam Altman: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/sam-altman-may-control-our-future-can-he-be-trusted *** Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Martyn Ashton spent two decades as one of the most influential trials riders in the world — making the smallest, most niche discipline of mountain biking accessible and exciting for a global audience through videos, shows, and a personality that made everyone feel like they could try it. In 2013, a crash during a stunt show left him paralyzed. Now he's doing the exact same thing all over again — this time for adaptive mountain biking. In this conversation, Martyn walks through the founding of Rideable Now, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to helping people with disabilities and life-changing injuries access adaptive mountain bikes. He explains why modern adaptive bikes aren't a watered-down version of mountain biking — they're genuinely terrifying, capable machines that unlock every trail in the world for people who never thought they'd ride again. He also gets into the economics of £25,000 bikes, why the e-bike power race could go too far, and the moment he gave away Rideable Now's first complete bike to a father of three who had no idea it was coming. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Martyn Ashton: https://www.instagram.com/martynashton/ Rideable Now: https://www.rideablenow.com/ Bowhead Bikes: https://www.bowheadcorp.com/ Cole Bernier: https://www.instagram.com/cbreezyrides/ Annijke Wade: https://www.instagram.com/geodesicdome/ Random Tandem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onoeq45G6ec Dirty Tricks and Cunning Stunts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd3n8-0tuHU GMBN: https://www.gmbn.com/ Rideable Now Membership: https://www.rideablenow.com/join Disabled Dad Of Three: https://www.instagram.com/disableddadof3/ High Fives Foundation: https://highfivesfoundation.org/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content Topeak Digital Tire Pump: https://backcountrycreator.tnu8.net/DWBMvq Stashed Spacerail (10% discount link): https://www.stashedproducts.com/superrider *** Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Ross McGraw has had one of the more interesting career arcs in the outdoor industry — from Nike's NYC Run program to Vice Media and Viacom, to helping build Hammerhead through its acquisition by SRAM, and now leading commercial efforts at CORE, the company changing how elite athletes think about heat. In this conversation, Ross breaks down the science of heat training in plain language — why 80% of the energy athletes generate is thermal, how heat zones work, and why the world's best cyclists and runners are training in heat suits before major races. He also gets into what it felt like to go from being a cog in a media machine to betting on himself in sports tech, why triathlon taught him more about business than any corporate job, and how to know when you're doing the "social run" version of your career. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Ross McGraw: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossmcgraw/ CORE: https://corebodytemp.com/ CORE Heat Suit: https://corebodytemp.com/products/core-suit CORE Heat Zones: https://help.corebodytemp.com/en/articles/10447111-heat-zones Hammerhead: https://shop.sram.com/pages/hammerhead Zwift Bike: https://us.zwift.com/collections/equipment/products/zwift-ride-smart-frame Wahoo Software Update: https://www.bikeradar.com/news/wahoo-elemnt-firmware-update-2026 BPC - Brand, Product, Content: World Cup - Adidas ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJY53qhJe0 Breathe (Book): https://amzn.to/4eBoX0f Respire Mouth Tape: https://respire.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Mattie Sims has built brands at Lululemon, Electronic Arts, Reef, and Rally Pickleball — and along the way developed a framework for brand building that most founders skip entirely. Now she's applying everything she's learned to two ventures at once: Courier, a performance sock brand built around the idea of the "Renaissance athlete," and Mate the Agency, a brand strategy firm working with founders across industries. In this conversation, Mattie walks through the muse framework she learned at Lululemon and has refined across every role since — why the most important question isn't "who buys this product" but "what is this person worried about when their head hits the pillow at night." She also gets into why looking branded is not the same as having a brand, what happened when Rally discovered their customers weren't there for pickleball, and why having her son was the thing that finally convinced her she could be an entrepreneur. Plus: why niching down is the thing every founder is most afraid of, how Courier is building a cultural movement around versatile excellence, and the Red Bull receptionist whose casual suggestion became a billion-dollar product strategy. Popfly For Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Show Notes: Mattie Sims: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madeline-sims-83385823/ Courier Socks: http://couriersocks.com/ Mate The Agency: https://www.matetheagency.com/ Rally Pickleball: https://www.rallypickleball.com/ Mate IG Carousel Link: https://www.instagram.com/p/DYW4_SVEU8b/ Carrie Rheaume (Mate agency co-founder): https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-rheaume-6376521a8/ Matt Sims: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-sims-9b716450/ Gartner Hype Cycle: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwerner/2024/07/18/the-trough-of-disillusionment-and-four-outliers-on-the-gartner-hype-cycle/ Morgan Tuohy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-tuohy/ Dera: https://rundera.com/ Ryan Thrower: https://www.instagram.com/ryanthrower/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Seniq: https://seniqbrand.com/ Summer Edition - Red Bull: https://www.redbull.com/us-en/energydrink/products/red-bull-summer-edition Billy Oppenheimer's newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Tom Austen is the founder of Pelotan, the world's first sun performance brand, and co-founder of Chance, a trail running apparel brand he's building with pro athlete and serial entrepreneur Christian Meier. Both brands are based in Girona, Spain — a two-square-kilometer pocket of world-class endurance athletes, cafes, and startups that's become the Boulder of Europe. In this conversation, Tom walks through how Pelotan went from a sunburn problem on training rides to winning two Tour de Frances with Team Sky in its first year, and how the brand is now pioneering something entirely new: treating the sun as a performance variable rather than just a health risk. He also gets into the Chance origin story, why cross-pollination across categories is the key to building something original, and what it's like to run two high-growth startups at the same time from a city of 100,000 people. Show Notes: Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Tom Austen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomausten1/ Pelotan: https://pelotan.cc/ Chance Running: https://chancerunning.com/ Second Nature - Sea Otter Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLk1LGIthPc Christian Meier: https://www.instagram.com/christianmmeier/ The Gartner Hype Cycle: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwerner/2024/07/18/the-trough-of-disillusionment-and-four-outliers-on-the-gartner-hype-cycle/ Pelotan Apres Aftersun: https://pelotan.cc/products/pelotan-apres-200ml Pelotan App for Second Nature listeners: https://pelotan.cc/secondnature Broken Arrow Skyrace: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/ Lael Wilcox: https://www.instagram.com/laelwilcox/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Nomio: https://drinknomio.com/ Adidas World Cup ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJY53qhJe0 Nike - Airport soccer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGalnbiGDW4 Insta360 GO Ultra: https://store.insta360.com/product/go-ultra Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into 20% of all beer at Whole Foods. In this conversation, Bill walks through the full journey: the two years of research before he quit his job, the valley of darkness where no brewery, distributor, or investor would take his calls, finding his co-founder John Walker through a brewing forum post (with the words "non-alcoholic" deliberately removed), and the grassroots field marketing strategy that built the brand one race, one taproom, and one six-pack at a time. He also gets into the competitive explosion that followed, why he views 200 brands entering his category as a positive, and what it's like to redefine success once the business reaches cruising altitude. If you've ever looked at a category and thought "why hasn't anyone fixed this yet", this is the episode that shows you what happens when someone actually does. Show Notes: Popfly For Brands Popfly For Creators Bill Shufelt on LinkedIn Athletic Brewing John Walker on LinkedIn 1000 True Fans (Article) Do Things That Don't Scale (Article) Two For The Trails What It Takes (Book) The Obstacle Is The Way (Book) BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Dirt - Ireland Gramicci Hopa Hopa Climbing Wall Kawa Raide Research - LF 5L Vest The Modern Substitute Kids Ride Shotgun Connect With Us: Join us on LinkedIn Meet us on Slack Follow us on Instagram Subscribe to our Newsletter Subscribe to our YouTube Channel

Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old. In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full founder journey — from stitching prototypes in his attic with fabric from old running shoes, to convincing one of Osprey's largest factories to take a chance on him, to the moment Tim Tollefson told him he wasn't allowed to NOT do this. He also talks openly about his first failed brand, why he set three rules for himself this time around ("I know nothing, everyone else knows everything, and they all want to help"), and how seven members of the Second Nature Slack channel played a direct role in getting Dera off the ground. This is a brand launch captured in real time — and a reminder that sometimes the best businesses start with a sewing machine in an attic and the willingness to ask for help. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly for Athletes/Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Morgan Tuohy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-tuohy/ Dera: https://rundera.com/ Tim Tollefson: https://www.instagram.com/timtollefson/ Our IP Attorney, Ian Gates: https://krdglaw.com/staff/ian-gates/ Kitworks: http://www.kitworks.com Second Nature Slack Channel: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Cade Michael: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cade-michael-mba-914411152/ Clara Froeschner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clarafroeschner/ Tim Nooney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-nooney-0a3bbaa6/ Courier Socks: https://couriersocks.com/ Claude: https://www.claude.ai Mammoth Trailfest: https://www.mammothtrailfest.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Goodles: https://www.goodles.com/ Dexa Scan: https://dexascan.com/ Kiprun - Kipsummit Max: https://www.kiprun.com/en-US/product/kipsummit-max-men-s-max-cushion-trail-running-shoes_362206--c153c385m9001281 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deeper than any survey can — and he built the whole thing in about a month. In this conversation, Steve walks through exactly how he did it, what he wishes he'd known before starting, and why AI is "a tool masquerading as a solution." He also deployed Field Check live on the Second Nature Slack channel to surface what the audience actually wants — and the results are fascinating. Plus: a halftime check-in on Second Nature's 2026 predictions, what happened at Sea Otter with Chinese bike brands, why Adidas is having a moment, and the 32-inch wheel debate that nobody asked for. Show Notes: Popfly for Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/ Insight Accelerator: https://insight-accelerator.com/ Lovable: https://lovable.dev/ Field Check: https://fieldcheck.app/ Supabase: https://supabase.com/ Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/ Github: https://www.github.com 2026 Predictions Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0G3OpDVnyA Steve's Prediction Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/stephenholmberg_2026-sport-and-outdoor-industry-trends-activity-7414293417557626880-AXy7 Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com BPC - Brand, Product, Content Jason Fried - David Senra Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw Adventure Bucket List: https://reachinternationaloutfitters.com/collections/state-bucket-lists Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Maren Hamilton ran global social at The North Face — building and executing a strategy for 5.5 million followers, integrating athletes and creators, and navigating every platform shift from the follow graph to the discovery graph. Then she left to help build Popfly, the creator platform built specifically for the outdoor industry. In this conversation, Maren shares the playbook she developed at TNF for running brand social at scale, including how to say no to the hundreds of internal requests that flood every social team, why the outdoor buying journey is fundamentally different from fashion and beauty, and what brands still get wrong about TikTok, Threads, and Facebook. Plus: Why Head of Social to CMO is now a real career path, what makes a creator pitch actually land with a brand, and the Adidas sub-two-hour marathon moment that might be the greatest brand activation of the decade. Second Nature is supported by Popfly. If you want to support our podcast - and discover a platform that we believe is one of the best tools for connecting brands and creators, follow these links: Popfly for Creators/Athletes: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Popfly for Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Show Notes:  Maren Hamilton: https://www.marenhamilton.com/ Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands TNF Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thenorthface DBo on X: https://x.com/dylanbo TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com Gnara on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@gnara_apparel?lang=en Taylor Hoekstra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taylorhoekstra/ Popfly Storefront: https://app.popfly.com/@superridertv/storefront Alpaka: https://www.alpaka.com Camp Chef: https://www.campchef.com Backcountry: https://www.backcountry.com BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Halfdays x HOKA: https://www.halfdays.com/pages/hoka-x-halfdays Keen x 18 East: https://www.keenfootwear.com/collections/keen-x-eighteen-east Gnarly Nutrition x DBo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtESorSIso Supercommunicators (Book): https://amzn.to/3RcJ7W6 Supercommunicators (Podcast Episode): https://open.spotify.com/episode/3jqbbLEHbZyEJ2kMqNskkz Adidas Pro Evo 3: https://www.adidas.com/us/adizero-adios-pro-evo-3-shoes/KH7678.html Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Matt Trappe is a photographer, filmmaker, creative strategist, and the voice behind the Matter of Brand newsletter: one of the most consistently sharp reads on brand building in the outdoor space. In this conversation, Matt and Aaron dig into why leading with innovation and tech has become table stakes rather than a differentiator, the three elements that make a brand story actually stick, and why the most powerful thing a brand can do right now is invest in longer attention channels rather than chasing short-form reach. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Matt Trappe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-trappe/ Auteur Sportif: https://auteursportif.com/ Matter Of Brand: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/ Matt Trappe on Second Nature (2024): https://youtu.be/Y-5n57sX5S4 MOB - YouTube Strategies: https://amatterofbrand.substack.com/p/new-youtube-strategies-for-athletes NASA Artemis Recap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfRqrrBbT-Y Hyperlyte - The Kid (Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZmeB4qub_U Kaironic: https://auteursportif.com/products/kaironic-issue-002 Smith Optics: https://smithoptics.pxf.io/PzKObY WSJ - Alternatively Influential: https://www.wsj.com/cmo-today/forget-influencers-welcome-to-the-world-of-the-alternatively-influential-e058e639 Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Skratch: https://www.skratch.com Popfly: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Skratch x Auteur Sportif: https://www.skratchlabs.com/pages/what-remains Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content Are.na: https://www.are.na/ Smith ODS5: https://smithoptics.pxf.io/vDyPVe Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Most outdoor brands have a YouTube problem. They're just not talking about it. Jeff Pelletier is a filmmaker, trail running creator, and one of the most thoughtful students of YouTube strategy and in the outdoor space. In this episode he breaks down why most brand channels are underperforming and what to actually do about it. We cover the difference between consistency and familiarity, why athlete-led channels outperform brand channels, the Marvel cinematic universe framework for building an audience around characters, and how YouTube's new collaboration feature changes the game for brand-creator partnerships. If you work at a brand, or if you're a creator who wants to bring more value to the brands that back you, this episode is required listening. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Jeff Pelletier on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JeffPelletier Why Most Brands Fail On YouTube: https://open.substack.com/pub/jeffpelletier/p/why-most-brands-fail-on-youtube Super Rider Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuperRiderTV Darren Rayner / Magnafire: https://www.magnafiremedia.com/ Floris Gierman on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/mjMJ7lcEIGg Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/ Outdoor Media Summit - Brand Preso: https://youtu.be/b0w462ncEEY?si=ORi2F8yGv4Rdtcos&t=774 Coros on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@COROSGlobal Park Tool's Sign-Off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60mjoZ0XeVA Rickey Gates: https://www.rickeygates.com/ Huckberry - Dirt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXbHTtsCd_E&list=PLjHRKTS-Q5-CeCo66kFGivBMF8qB8orPh Huckberry Homes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjHRKTS-Q5-DBIKtFTzXdHr355duxbl7J Cody Townsend - The Fifty Project: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSj-6RsDycxnKiIFFm0BFYoLLV5Np3K49 BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Hover Air ProMax: https://geni.us/OEkhLgI Jeff's Hover Air video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0evC16wzaDE DJI Osmo Pocket 3: https://amzn.to/41XGNEo Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Michael Rueckert was a ski resort marketing director who got curious about a simple question: when someone asks an AI where to ski, does Snow Basin show up? That curiosity led him down a rabbit hole that eventually became Centium AI, a platform now working with over 170 outdoor brands to help them understand and improve their visibility across every major AI model. In this conversation, Michael and Aaron dig into how ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, and Perplexity each "think" differently about outdoor brands, why landing a GearLab ranking may now be worth more than any paid search campaign, and what it means for marketing when AI starts making purchasing decisions on behalf of humans. They also go deep on the practical side — how to set up Claude projects as a creative co-pilot, why taste is still the irreducible human advantage in an AI world, and why the outdoor industry is actually better positioned than most for what's coming. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Michael Rueckert: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-rueckert/ Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/ Christian Rawles on SN: https://youtu.be/EVPKsO0O8us GearLab: https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/ OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai/ Rick Rubin on "Taste": https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNyma-0WMZL/ Claude: https://www.claude.ai BPC - Brand, Product, Content Scott Sports: https://www.scott-sports.com/ Gnarly Nutrition: https://gognarly.com/ DBo's Gnarly Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPtESorSIso Go-Giver (Book): https://amzn.to/4mzP632 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

We hosted a Second Nature meetup with everyone at the Sea Otter Classic, and pulled a handful of friends up to the microphone to have conversations about everything happening in the industry and in their world at large.  Jeremy Dunn, Braydon Bringhurst, Eric Porter, Tom Austen, Rachel Fussell, Steve Blick and Yuri Hauswald joined Aaron on the stage to chat through the lessons they've learned and the things that they're working hard to accomplish in 2026. A big thank you to Smith Optics for hosting the space for our community to meet up, and for all the brands who contributed to our "Sea Otter Survival Kit". Show Notes: Popfly For Brands: https://popf.ly/secondnaturebrands Popfly For Creators: https://popf.ly/secondnaturecreators Jeremy Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyddunn/ Smith Optics: https://www.smithoptics.com Braydon Bringhurst: https://www.instagram.com/braydonbringhurst/ HardMTB League: https://www.hardmtbleague.com/ Eric Porter: https://www.instagram.com/portermtb PorterMTB on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/portermtb Tom Austen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomausten1/ Pelotan: https://usa.pelotan.cc/ Rachel Fussell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-m-fussell/ People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/ People For Bikes - Backyard Initiative: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/news/backyard-advocacy-toolkit Steve Blick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-blick/ Yuri Hauswald: https://www.instagram.com/yhauswald/ Yuri's Charity Ride: https://app.99pledges.com/fund/yurichasetherace/yuri-hauswald Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media  Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature  Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media  Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media  Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

What if bikes could transform cities, create economies, and solve problems nobody thought they were for? We're joined today by Peter Abraham, one of the most connected strategic minds in the bike industry, just ahead of Sea Otter Classic. We cover a lot of ground: the state of the bike industry after a brutal few years, why e-bikes are reaching people the legacy brands never could, what London and Paris figured out about infrastructure that LA hasn't, and why Bentonville might be the most important proof of concept in outdoor sports right now. Plus: the $21 million Scotland Mountain Bike Innovation Center, the LA Olympics bike infrastructure push, and why the brands at Sea Otter with just a tent and a couple of bikes on stands are leaving a lot on the table. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss   Peter Abraham: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterabraham2/ Sea Otter Classic: https://www.seaotterclassic.com/ Bicycle Leadership Conference: https://www.bicycleleadershipconference.org/ People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/ Modern Elder Academy: https://www.meawisdom.com/ The Algorithm (Book): https://amzn.to/41ROQTg Rivian's e-Bike: https://ridealso.com/ Amsterdam, The Bike City: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKbRL6Opifg Abundance (Book): https://amzn.to/4caqpFt Why Can't We Build Bike Lanes?: https://peterabraham.medium.com/why-cant-we-build-bike-lanes-1115b713a5cf Festival Trail: https://www.festivaltrail.org Runway Group: https://runwaynwa.com/ Scotland's MTB Innovation Center: https://www.singletracks.com/mtb-trails/thanks-to-a-21-million-investment-the-worlds-first-mtb-innovation-centre-is-breaking-ground-this-spring-in-scotland/ Atherton Bikes: https://www.athertonbikes.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Bicycle Diaries (Book): https://amzn.to/4e48iDA Barbarian Days (Book): https://amzn.to/4csxC4W Levrack: https://www.levrack.com Kitworks: https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

150 episodes. Two years. No shortage of stuff happening. On this milestone bro pod, we take stock of where Second Nature has been — and where things are heading. Digging into what's actually changed in 2026: what we've removed, working with an executive coach, launching a live weekly show, and opening the first mountain bike retail store in Shenzhen, China. Plus a real conversation about the grind before the momentum, why the irons are finally heating up, and what it feels like when years of consistent work starts clicking into place. Show Notes: Popfly for Brands: https://www.popfly.com?growsurf_campaign=jpeg2o&grsf=x4d7gg Popfly for Creators: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Second Nature's Catalog: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia/videos Dustin Klein Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM0r0_R-cfk Matt Lloyd-Thomas on SN: https://youtu.be/UFukxaniLMI Christian Rawles on SN: https://youtu.be/EVPKsO0O8us Christian Rawles: https://www.christianrawles.com/ Enneagram: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test Super Rider: https://www.youtube.com/@superRiderTV Freetrail Rest Day: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-freetrail-podcast-with-dylan-bowman/id1492327668 Trailcon: https://www.trailconference.com Outside Interactive Revenue: https://www.adweek.com/media/outside-interactive-profit-transformation/ The Rebooting - Outside: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-outsides-media-as-flywheel-strategy/id1595625177?i=1000755772587 BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Thinking In Bets (Book): https://amzn.to/3QnzUK1 Speedland RXLDVL: https://www.runspeedland.com/products/rx-ldvl Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Floris Gierman has it all: he's an author, content creator, co-founder of a running apparel brand, and so much more. His approach in hindsight seems methodical and measured in its approach, but the truth is that this all came around from years of consistent, small steps. In this episode, we dig into the day-to-day as well as the big picture of Floris Gierman's world. This episode is supported by Popfly, a platform that connects brands with outdoor, adventure and travel creators for campaigns. Support this podcast by using these links to check out the platform: Get a personalized Brand demo: https://popfly.com?grsf=x4d7gg Get set up as a Creator: https://www.popfly.com/creators?growsurf_campaign=wovvt7&grsf=3jh7ss Show Notes: Floris Gierman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/florisgierman/ Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/ Floris on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FlorisGierman Flo's First Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CAxzM2mkrc Extramilest Podcast: https://extramilest.com/ Personal Best Running Club: https://www.skool.com/personalbest/about Scott Bailey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-bailey-0bb22b28/ Geoff Rowley: https://www.instagram.com/geoffrowley/ Running Breakthroughs (Book): https://amzn.to/4sNFEeC Ryan Hall: https://www.instagram.com/ryanhall3/ Believe In The Run: https://believeintherun.com/ Kilian on Extramilest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJZO-t6O5Bk BPC - Brand, Product, Content Manors Golf: https://manorsgolf.com/ KetoneIQ: https://ketone.com/Freetrail30 Path Projects Base Liner: https://pathprojects.com/collections/base-liners The Way Of Excellence (Book): https://amzn.to/4sNFEeC Path Projects Basis Tee: https://pathprojects.com/collections/short-sleeves-and-tanks/products/basis-tee Backcountry Slickrock Kit: https://app.popfly.com/@superridertv/storefront Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators If there's one thing for certain, it's that nothing ever stays the same - doubly so if you're a brand in the outdoor space or an athlete or creator. Over the past year, we've had so many discussions about what's working, the right way to approach it, and how it has evolved. Jonathan Levitt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jlevitt815/ Small Shows Hit Different: https://substack.com/@longrunlabs/p-190439642 Hollow Socks: https://hollowsocks.com/ Hollow Socks on Second Nature: https://youtu.be/qri10TgoOMM Jonathan's Previous SN episode: https://youtu.be/fYEjPke9Btg Brand Partnership 101 Article: https://substack.com/home/post/p-170877180 Substack Podcasts: https://on.substack.com/p/introducing-the-substack-recording Colleen Quigley: https://www.instagram.com/steeple_squigs/ Kitworks: https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO Claude: https://claude.ai/ Eternal: https://www.eternal.co Alex Mather on Second Nature The Huddle: https://findmyhuddle.com/ Second Nature Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Raziq Rauf "This Is Running" (Book): https://amzn.to/3PteKKk Seth LaRue Trail Waves: https://trailwaves.substack.com/ Wahoo Kickr: https://amzn.to/4bAgDgY Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Recently, two long-standing outdoor industry businesses, Alpenglow Expeditions and Thomson Bike Tours, were acquired by Milky Way Park. But while acquisitions are nothing new to the outdoor industry, the way it came together (and continues to develop) is worth a closer look. On this episode, iconic athlete and Alpenglow founder Adrian Ballinger joins Milky Way Park's founder Matthew Lloyd-Thomas to share the story. Show Notes: Adrian Ballinger: https://www.instagram.com/adrianballinger/ Alpenglow Expeditions: https://alpenglowexpeditions.com/ Matthew Lloyd-Thomas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-lloyd-thomas-541a9614/ Milky Way Park: https://www.milkywaypark.com/ Chernin Group: https://tcg.co/ Unrivaled Sports: https://www.unrivaledsports.com/ Emily Harrington: https://www.instagram.com/emilyaharrington/ Thomson Bike Tours: https://www.thomsonbiketours.com/ Aiden Charles (Coach): https://www.charlescoaching.com/coaches/ The Duffel Shuffle Podcast: https://www.duffelshufflepodcast.com/ DangerStik: https://www.youtube.com/@DangerStikTV Mt Everest Ski Project: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZvFY6__qw Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content Luft Bike Shop: https://luftlosangeles.com/ Zipp 404 Wheels: https://www.sram.com/en/zipp/models/wh-404-ftld-b1 Keith McNally "I Regret Everything" (Book): https://amzn.to/40BXhBO Derek Thompson - Fatherhood: https://www.derekthompson.org/p/three-reasons-to-be-a-parent Lenz Heated Socks: https://lenzproducts.com/ Broken Arrow Skyrace: https://www.brokenarrowskyrace.com/ Tangle Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/tangle/id1538788132 Freehub Magazine: https://freehub.com/ John Mackey on David Senra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8zqsiePKsg Jason Fried on David Senra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdDCtMA1gSw Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media  Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature  Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media  Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media  Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry Mel Strong made a meaningful impression during her first appearance on the podcast, and we've got her back on the podcast again to demystify how brands can raise capital, how to speak to boards and VCs, and to answer the all-important question...should we have our own venture fund? Show Notes: Mel Strong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-strong/ Mel's First Second Nature Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2V0nDHyQRw Next Ventures: https://www.nextventures.com/ TRE: https://www.therunningevent.com/ Nike ACG: http://nikeacg.com/ Oura: https://ouraring.com/ Trial Library: https://www.triallibrary.com/ Eternal: https://eternal.co/ Trucks (VC): https://www.trucks.vc/ Next Ventures Substack: https://nextventures.substack.com/ Felix Kim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/felixkim93/ Ramble Campgrounds: https://ramble.camp/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Ramble Campground: https://ramble.camp/ Path Projects - Basis Tee: https://pathprojects.com/products/basis-tee The Courage To Be Disliked (Book): https://amzn.to/471R716 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Uplifting Talent In The Outdoor Industry Rachael Burnside saw an opportunity to build a stronger community of women in the bike industry by connecting experienced mentors with mentees, which would help build and retain top talent. The fifth round of the Uplift mentorship program is now underway, and in our conversation, Rachael breaks down the playbook of what it took to build this program - and how any other industry can adapt and benefit from making these connections. Show Notes: Rachael Burnside: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachael-burnside-1bb0b937/ Uplift: https://www.instagram.com/uplift.mentoring.networking/ Shift Active Media: https://www.shiftactivemedia.com/ Rouleur: https://www.rouleur.cc/ Rouleur Live: https://www.rouleur.cc/en-us/pages/rouleur-live Rapha: https://www.rapha.cc/ Alexa Cunningham: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexa-cunningham-41045433/ Kate Veronneau on Second Nature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPlJTBv6ABo Stacy Perlis (CFO at Wahoo): https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacy-perlis-cpa/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Pure Sport: https://puresport.co/en-us Upway: https://upway.co/ Adweek Article - Outside Interactive: https://www.adweek.com/media/outside-interactive-profit-transformation/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media  Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature  Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media  Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media  Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Roadmap Of Rumpl Wylie Robinson co-founded Rumpl over a decade ago, bringing an idea to life in the way that every outdoor entrepreneur dreams of doing. Over that time, he's experienced the twists and turns, ups and downs, and during this introspective discussion, we dig into the roadmap and the lessons he's learned from the journey (so far). Show Notes: Wylie Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wylierobinson/ Rumpl: https://www.rumpl.com/ Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/ Huckberry: https://huckberry.com/ White Road Investments: https://whiteroadinvestments.com/ Rumpl on Shark Tank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BScmKUoSNdc Rumpl Collabs: https://www.rumpl.com/pages/collaborations BPC (Brand, Product, Content): Kids Ride Shotgun: https://kidsrideshotgun.com/ TowWhee: https://towwhee.com/ Super Rider x Chris King: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvUku8KfEII Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Uncovering The Fear Of Success Christian Rawles joins the podcast today for an extremely open and honest discussion about career, success, and how we approach our work. Christian has inspired so many thought-provoking conversations offline, we had to get him on the podcast to share his wisdom and insights with everyone. This is a special episode, we hope you enjoy it! Christian Rawles: https://www.christianrawles.com/ KORE Podcast: https://koreoutdoors.transistor.fm/ Enneagram Test: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test Enneagram Made Easy (Book): https://amzn.to/4abMbHO Tiny Experiments (Book): https://amzn.to/3NP5EGZ Billy Oppenheimer Newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/ The Go-Giver (Book): https://amzn.to/4qhcIcO The Lion Tracker's Guide To Life (Book): https://amzn.to/4rndlT6 The Gap and The Gain (Book): https://amzn.to/3NZMGNJ Founders Podcast: https://www.founderspodcast.com/ Five Year Journal: https://amzn.to/3MkQXLd BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Durston Gear: https://durstongear.com/ Centium AI: https://www.centium.ai/ Jonathan Weaver's Substack: https://theantiblueprintproject.substack.com/ Powerwolf: https://www.powerwolf.net/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Past, Present and Future of Des Linden After winning the Boston Marathon, writing a book, hosting a giant running podcast...what's next? We caught up with Des Linden to talk about her career so far, but more importantly, where she's heading next. Show Notes: Des Linden: https://www.instagram.com/des_linden/ Nobody Asked Us (Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-asked-us-with-des-kara/id1664629953 GU x Des: https://guenergy.com/blogs/press/boston-marathon-champion-joins-gu-athlete-team Magda Boulet: https://www.instagram.com/runboulet/ Ruth Croft: https://www.instagram.com/ruthcrofty/ Brooks - Chief Running Advisor: https://www.brooksrunning.com/en_us/athletes-sponsored-by-brooks-running/des-linden/ Choosing To Run (Book): https://amzn.to/3NGMCT3 Marathon des Sables: https://marathondessables.com/ Black Canyon 50K: https://www.aravaiparunning.com/blackcanyon/ Subway Takes x Des: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQj8ucBDl4B/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Brooks Cascadia Elite (Paris Fashion Week): https://www.brooksrunning.com/en_us/cascadia-elite/ Clearlight Infrared Sauna: https://infraredsauna.com/sanctuary-five-person/ Nothing.Tech: https://nothing.tech/ The Generalist: https://www.generalist.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Outdoor Brand Spending $1 MILLION On Ads (Every Month) You could've heard a pin drop at Outdoor Media Summit when Brian Davis told the audience his brand spends one million dollars on ads every month. But how did he get here? In this week's episode, we got to dive into Brian's history of launching and building brands - and the conversation that followed did not disappoint. Show Notes: Brian Davis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandavisinnovates/ Hollow Socks: https://hollowsocks.com/ Fix It Sticks: https://store.fixitsticks.com/ Back Bottle: https://backbottle.com/ Zach Stuck: https://x.com/zachmstuck Zach's Agency: https://www.homesteadstudio.co/ Josh Haskins (New GM): https://www.linkedin.com/in/jthaskins/ Scheels: https://www.scheels.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Wahoo Bike: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/indoor-cycling/smart-bikes Fanttik X10 Ace Mini Bike Pump: https://amzn.to/4pYICKZ Founders Podcast - Kevin Kelly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUKafK3xCfY Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

How To Write A Book About Running Raziq Rauf is the author behind "This Is Running" a new book that comes out in a few short months. Raz is also the author behind Running Sucks on Substack, and in this episode we dig into the process of becoming a published author, along with all the necessary hurdles to get over the hurdles to making it happen. Show Notes: Raziq Rauf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raziqrauf/ This Is Running (Book): https://amzn.to/3O7h1Ke Running Sucks (Newsletter): https://www.runningsucks101.com/ Batsford Publishing: https://www.batsfordbooks.com/ David Miller (Photographer): https://www.instagram.com/davidmiller.photography/ Brandon Leonard: https://semi-rad.com/ Like The Wind: https://www.likethewindmagazine.com/ Chuck Palahniuk Substack: https://chuckpalahniuk.substack.com/ Grant Wall (Journalist): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Wahl Sabrina Little - The Examined Run: https://amzn.to/3LGvFHQ Duhkha: https://buddho.org/dukkha-the-unsatisfactoriness-of-existence/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: "The Running Ground" - Nicolas Thompson: https://amzn.to/4qLgbl6 Paperclip.cc: https://www.thepaperclip.cc/ Greeking Out (Nat Geo): https://www.nationalgeographic.com/podcasts/greeking-out Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Alex Mather and his team at Eternal are building a platform that addresses long term health of active, athletic people looking for a proactive approach. In this episode, we dug into the lessons Alex learned while being an early employee at Strava, founding The Athletic (as well as exiting it) and it all played into his latest venture. Show Notes: Alex Mather: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexemather/ Eternal: https://www.eternal.co The Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/ Strava: https://www.strava.com/ Rebecca Rusch: https://www.rebeccarusch.com/ Mel Strong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-strong/ Next Ventures: https://www.nextventures.com/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Oura: https://ouraring.com/ Nuclear War (Book): https://amzn.to/4jRGT8Z Semafor - Jonah Weiner: https://www.semafor.com/article/10/14/2025/blackbird-spyplane-jonah-weiner The War Of Art (Book): https://amzn.to/45nir9z Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Steve Holmberg joins the podcast for our annual predictions podcast. Based on his insights from the industry, he shares a bit of where we've been - as well as where he thinks we're headed in the year ahead. Steve takes us through his analysis on participation, brands, marketing, product, marketplace, retail and external. Show Notes: Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/ Insight Accelerator: https://www.stephenholmberg.com/ Raide: https://raideresearch.com/ Half Days: https://www.halfdays.com/ Mount to Coast: https://mounttocoast.com/ Norda: https://nordarun.com/ Matt Trappe: https://substack.com/home/post/p-180904392 Peter Abraham: https://peterabraham.medium.com/the-2025-bicycle-trend-report-1d262a7b0351 Nike ACG: https://www.nike.com/acg Terignota: https://terignota.com/ Grand Slam Bankruptcy: https://www.espn.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/47286330/grand-slam-track-files-bankruptcy-johnson-vows-press-on BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Field Mag: https://www.fieldmag.com/ Columbia x Star Wars: https://www.columbia.com/starwars/ Kitworks (Aaron's Ambassador Page!): https://alnk.to/hsyF2FO Snow Peak: https://www.snowpeak.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

FlyLow was founded by Dan Abrams and Greg Steen twenty years ago to create backcountry ski pants that could hold up to the demands of the sport and terrain. They continued to refine and expand the product line, as their own proficiencies were expanding and refining. Dan joins us this week to share stories and lessons from the journey so far. Show Notes: FlyLow Gear: https://flylowgear.com/ Dan Abrams: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-abrams-4287775/ Megan Michaelson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganmichelson/ Greg Steen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-steen-7419041b/ Alibaba: https://www.alibaba.com/ Cactus Outdoor: https://cactusoutdoor.co.nz/ CAGR (term): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_annual_growth_rate Hot Tub Short (FlyLow): https://flylowgear.com/products/hot-tub-short Anderson Shirt (FlyLow): https://flylowgear.com/products/anderson-shirt Irwin Fleece (FlyLow): https://flylowgear.com/products/irwin-fleece-shirt BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Moment Skis: https://www.momentskis.com/ Momentous Creatine: https://crrnt.app/MOME/P1ZgGplx Todd Snyder: https://www.toddsnyder.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

It's the end of an era, and what a chapter it was. Red Bull, the brand that brought Dylan and Aaron together, has graduated Dylan from their official athlete roster. It felt like the perfect time to put the partnership in perspective, with takeaways, stories and lessons from nearly a decade-long partnership. This is the lifecycle of a brand relationship that brings the best out of everyone involved - but, all good things must come to an end. Show Notes: Dylan Bowman: https://www.instagram.com/dylanbo/ Aaron Lutze: https://www.instagram.com/superridertv/ Lisa Burnes: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-burnes-670a356/ Red Bull Lost Coast Film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhbO241F_xE Campfire Stories - DBo Croatia: https://www.redbull.com/int-en/episodes/dylan-bowmans-tale-of-teeth-and-triumph-campfire-stories-s01-e01 Red Bull - Last Set: https://www.redbull.com/us-en/videos/action-clip-(dirty)-dylan-bowman Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Chef Corso launched Outdoor Eats to improve the quality of trailside food. On his journey to level up everyone's culinary experience outdoors, he managed to build a brand that includes a TV series (going on its third season), a line of cookbooks, and plenty more. Reaching the outdoor audience has been an iterative process, and we dug into all of the details and steps along the way. Chef Corso: https://www.instagram.com/outdooreats365/ Outdoor Eats: https://outdooreats.tv/ Trail Meals Cookbook: https://outdooreats.com/product/trail-meals-cascade-edition/ Chef Corso Substack: https://chefcorso.substack.com/ Creativity Inc: https://amzn.to/48UruQ4 Science Of Scaling: https://amzn.to/4r6MviC Heliconia Productions: https://heliconia.ca/ Aaron's SF Peninsula Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHqGcGxmvGw Titanium Spork: https://outdooreats.com/product/creekside-titanium-spork/ OE Guided Trips 2026: https://outdooreats.com/outdoor-eats-guided-trips-2026/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Why You Eat What You Eat: https://amzn.to/4j2ypLy Mama Lil's Peppers: https://amzn.to/3KRoUm0 Red Bull - Everest Ski Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjZvFY6__qw Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

It's the dream: starting your career as a mechanic and working your way up to running one of the largest bike companies in the world. Ben Coates recently joined Canyon Bicycles to lead their North American division, and in our discussion, we dug into his journey to learn everything we could about the steps he took and how he handled some of the wildest curveballs imaginable. Show Notes: Ben Coates: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-coates-669997a/ Canyon Bicycles: https://www.canyon.com/en-us/ Professor Galloway: https://www.profgalloway.com/ John Burke: https://www.instagram.com/jbtrek08/ Travis Campbell - Eagle Peak: https://www.linkedin.com/in/straviscampbell/ The Noto Group: https://www.notogroup.com/ The First 90 Days (Book): https://amzn.to/4r6NUpt People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/ LeBron James x Canyon: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-lebron-james-and-canyon-bicycles-partner-to-inspire-a-new-generation-of-riders.html BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Sage Flyrod: https://farbank.com/pages/sage The Science Of Scaling (Book): https://amzn.to/4r6MviC Mountains Of The Moon (Trailer): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlY-gn7yVyM Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

The Truth About Athlete Sponsorship Kelly Newlon is leading the way with her approach to athlete sponsorship in the trail running space, and we get into the ethos of her process. Athlete sponsorship is going through some incredible changes at the moment, and this conversation with Kelly highlights the opportunities for both brands as well as athletes - in any sport. Show Notes: Kelly Newlon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-newlon-5245569/ RAD Boulder: https://www.radboulder.com/ USATF Agent Test: https://www.usatf.org/resources/athlete-representatives/prospective-authorized-athlete-representatives Jennifer Lichter - Freetrail podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jenn-lichter-from-orphan-to-trailblazer/id1492327668?i=1000722502523 BPC - Brand, Product, Content Unreasonable Hospitality (Book): https://amzn.to/47QaET8 Dirt Dispatch: https://www.instagram.com/dirtdispatch/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Behind The Scenes Of The Snow League The Snow League is one of the most successful new athlete-led sports leagues in this new wave, and we're joined by The Snow League's Head of Broadcast Production, Scott Bradfield, and Vice President of Marketing, Tom Dunmore, to learn about everything that goes into making a global sports league like this happen. Show Notes: The Snow League: https://thesnowleague.com/ Snow League IG: https://www.instagram.com/thesnowleague/ Scotty Bradfield: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-bradfield-a244581a/ Red Bull Project X: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Zoh2JC_XA Tom Dunmore: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tdunmore/ Momentum - Social Series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzpW7nAG2I4 Eileen Gu: https://www.instagram.com/eileengu/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Intake Breathing Strips: https://amzn.to/3LEOfzz Baller League: https://ballerleague.uk/ ManyChat: https://www.manychat.com Run Through A Wall: https://runthroughawall.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

It's been a while since we've been in the same place, and over the past 130+ podcasts, we've only recorded one other podcast in person. Now that our schedules are slowing down, we were able to catch up and talk about what we got right in 2025, what we want to do differently, and what's in store for the year ahead. Show Notes: Marin Bikes: https://www.marinbikes.com/ Outdoor Media Summit: https://outdoormediasummit.com/ Super Rider: https://www.superrider.tv Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Osprey x Houdini: https://www.osprey.com/featured/houdini/ Netflix into podcasts: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-11-09/netflix-is-getting-serious-about-video-podcasts Hard MTB League: https://www.hardmtbleague.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Amanda Carey and her team at NICA are opening a giant door for the next generation of mountain bikers in the USA (and beyond). The National Interscholastic Cycling Association is a network of mountain biking clubs with proper coaching, training, trail building, racing, and plenty more. While NICA is leading the way in the sport of youth cycling, the fundamentals Amanda shares in this conversation could be applied to any sport discipline that is looking to develop the next generation of participants (and future world champions). Show Notes: NICA: https://nationalmtb.org/ Amanda Carey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amanda-carey-1327361a5/ Matt Fritzinger: https://mmbhof.org/mountain-bike-hall-of-fame/2016/matt-fritzinger/ GRiT: https://nationalmtb.org/grit NICA Coaching: https://nationalmtb.org/coaching-with-nica Changing The Game (Podcast): https://open.spotify.com/show/6dqPATHc7nllj8UXoboWo4 NICA Australia: https://nicaausmtb.org.au/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content Goodr: https://goodr.com/ Smith Sliders: https://www.smithoptics.com/en-us/products/sliders The Road To Character (Book): https://amzn.to/43Ly0GW Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Red Bull has always been one of the leaders in brand social, but it's not because they're throwing mountains of cash at it. The format and formulas built into the program made all the difference, and in this episode, we dig into the details with Caley Wildermuth. Caley was a part of the social team at Red Bull, and has since expanded her impact by working with other brands through her agency, Content By Caley. Get ready for some serious strategic and tactical insights - this conversation is loaded with an entire framework to completely alter your social media strategy. Show Notes: Caley Wildermuth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caleywildermuth/ Content By Caley: https://www.contentbycaley.com/ Underbrush Gum: https://nathanandsons.com/ Away - Close Friends List: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DLlF9K8NDtw/ ManyChat: https://www.manychat.com Final Boss Sour: https://finalbosssour.com/ Proteus Motion: https://proteusmotion.com/ Creating Content With A Remote Team (Caley's Article): https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-do-i-create-content-remote-team-caley-wildermuth-topic/ Circle (Community Platform): https://circle.so/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: SULT: https://www.drinksult.com/ Craftmix: https://www.instagram.com/craftmix/ Roomies (by Bilt): https://www.instagram.com/roomiesroomiesroomies/ Anthropic's New (Claude) Ad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDNkDBNR7AM Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Michelle Bates organized and executed a "content residency" in New Zealand, and it instantly caught our attention. Collaboration between multiple brands, athletes and creators, all in one of the most epic outdoor playgrounds on this planet. We had to know more about how this came together - and more importantly - where it's going. Show Notes: Outsiders: https://for-outsiders.com/ NZ Experiences: https://for-outsiders.com/book-our-trips February Residency: https://for-outsiders.com/february-nz-content-residency-eoi Marriott Bonvoy Outdoors: https://www.marriott.com/en-us/outdoors People For Bikes: https://www.peopleforbikes.org/ Second Nature - Jonathan Levitt Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEjPke9Btg BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Outdoor Brand Camp: https://www.outdoorbrandcamp.com Women Who Run With Wolves: https://amzn.to/47O5Z40 Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Jake Largess joined Suunto just in time for the rebirth of the company and expansion beyond watches. Recounting his history in the industry, including his time at Nike as part of the 6.0 project, Jake shares lessons he's learned through his experience, and how they apply to what he's working on now. Suunto recently launched the Vertical 2 watch, and in this podcast we learned more about their other recent product line expansion: bone-conducting headphones. Show Notes: Jake Largess: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-largess-6840a717/ Suunto: https://www.suunto.com/ Simon Dumont: https://www.instagram.com/simondumont/ Suunto Headphones: https://us.suunto.com/pages/bone-conduction-headphones Courtney's Signature Watch: https://us.suunto.com/products/suunto-race-s-titanium-courtney Tailwind: https://tailwindnutrition.com/ SunGod: https://www.sungod.co/ Salomon Courtney Signature Shoes: https://www.salomon.com/en-us/product/s-lab-genesis-limited-courtney-edition-2-li8326/L47829400 Abby Hall: https://www.instagram.com/abby.k.hall/ Vertical 2 Watch: https://us.suunto.com/products/suunto-vertical-2-all-black BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Suunto: https://us.suunto.com/ Vessi - Waterproof Shoes: https://vessi.com/ The Row: https://www.therow.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Kyle Siegel, founder of Raide Research, appeared on the Second Nature podcast one year ago - just as he was finalizing the brand's first entry into trail running with the LF 2L belt. We've been following Raide closely since then, and brought Kyle (and his newest hire) back on the podcast to check in. It's safe to say, quite a bit has changed since the last time we had Kyle on the podcast. Show Notes: Kyle Siegel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-siegel/ Raide: https://raideresearch.com/ Original Second Nature x Raide pod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAYD20ZXJOM Interval (Shop): https://intervalrunning.co.uk/ Spencer Harkins: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spencerharkins/ Original Second Nature x Spencer pod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQVLRsmUqbs Mali Noyes: https://www.instagram.com/malinoyes/ BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Ex-officio Everyday Boxer: https://amzn.to/475dVMO TNF Advanced Mountain Kit: https://www.thenorthface.com/en-us/collections/advanced-mountain-kit Colin + Samir Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbZbPHjE8NE Mill Valley Pasta Company: https://millvalleypasta.com/ Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Yoon Kim and Kenji Haroutunian are leading the charge with Outdoor Media Summit, a gathering of industry professionals that continues to build momentum after nearly a decade. In this conversation, we dive into the history of the event - and more importantly, where it's headed. They are launching something new at this year's event, and we've got the exclusive on that announcement. Show Notes: Outdoor Media Summit: https://outdoormediasummit.com/ Yoon Kim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yoon-kim-5027b214/ Kenji Haroutunian: https://www.kenjiconsults.com/ Colin + Samir Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbZbPHjE8NE Erica Zazo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericazazo/ Outdoor ECom: https://outdoorecom.com/ Startup Junkie: https://startupjunkie.org/ Global Cycling Accelerator: https://cyclingaccelerator.com/ Stephen Regenold - Founder of Gear Junkie: https://www.instagram.com/stephenregenold/?hl=en NPS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_promoter_score BPC - Brand, Product, Content: Livsn T-shirts: https://www.livsndesigns.com/products/pack-shirt Yoshino Power Station: https://yoshinopower.com/products/b2000-solid-state-portable-power-station FlyLow Homegrown (Book): https://flylowgear.com/collections/all/products/homegrown-the-flylow-story Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia