We Made This Political Podcast

Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum host Scott Warren (SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins) and Morgan Ramsey-Elliot (ReD Associates) to discuss their report, “Faith, Freedom, Family and Place,” an ethnographic study of conservative Americans’ relationships to democracy and institutional trust. They explain why common “save democracy” messaging often falls flat, arguing that democracy means different things across audiences and can be heard as protecting the status quo or advancing a partisan progressive agenda. Drawing on deep fieldwork, they describe a moral foundation—faith, freedom, family, and place—and three conservative orientations (actor critics, system critics, and foundation defenders) that predict tolerance for democratic norm deviation. The conversation highlights how local civic life, institutional encounters, COVID-era experiences, and information ecosystems shape distrust, and stresses listening, specificity, and honest reckoning with institutional failures.00:00 Welcome and Guests00:44 Why Study Conservatives01:36 Limits of Polling04:18 Red Associates Approach07:03 Save Democracy Messaging10:41 Democracy Means What17:03 Faith Freedom Family Place18:43 Inside the Ethnography24:00 Values in Daily Life28:32 Types of Conservative Critics30:36 Crisis Segments Explained31:41 Bridge Building Strategies33:51 Elite Messaging And Slippage36:23 COVID Trust Breakdown38:19 Everyday Institutional Failures42:06 Illiberalism Perception Gap45:36 Ethnography Interview Method49:02 Why Outrage Persuasion Fails51:09 Report Reception And Backlash54:46 Dissemination And HopeResourcesFull Report: https://conservativestudy.redassociates.com/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political with congressional reporter Paul Kane of NOTUS, who explains how he moved from planning for law school to a 26-year career covering Congress and what makes a good congressional reporter. Kane argues that communications technology and the collapse of local and regional news have reshaped Congress, enabling “radical transparency” without reliable context and weakening accountability, illustrated by Rep. Tom Kean Jr. not being seen publicly since March 5th. The conversation covers low legislative output in 2025 and recent Congresses, the Senate’s procedural paralysis and focus on nominations, changing incentive structures favoring fundraising and attention over legislating, and norms that no longer enforce behavior because punishment can be monetized. Kane critiques media’s focus on controversy, highlights Gabe Fleisher’s Wake Up to Politics, and ends with cautious hope in growing, less click-driven journalism and stories like Sen. Lisa Blunt Rochester’s.00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro00:55 Paul Kane Origin Story02:30 Reporting Lessons From Local Politics05:03 What Makes a Great Hill Reporter09:35 How Congress Changed With Phones14:23 Radical Transparency Tradeoffs15:53 Missing Congressman Case Study20:03 Low Information Voters and Swings24:15 Approval Ratings and Cynicism27:03 Why Lawmaking Has Stalled32:09 Coalitions to Gridlock33:14 Fundraising and Selection Effects35:19 McHenry’s Incentive Shift42:13 Rules Fail and Punishment Backfires45:42 Chaos Era New Normal48:48 Media’s Role in Polarization53:50 Independent News and New Models57:00 Hopeful Signs and ClosingResourcesFind Paul’s Work: Paul’s final Washington Post column: https://wapo.st/4uBtWDUPauls’s interview with former Representative Patrick McHenry (NC-10): https://535.news/interviews/patrick-mchenry-jun-3-2026/Norms in Congress (NOTUS): https://www.notus.org/analysis/congress-there-are-no-rules-mike-johnson-republicans-legislationPaul’s NOTUS bio and article listing: https://www.notus.org/paul-kanePaul’s Blue Sky profile: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vqueu3b2o4xv4kcscj4dxdwfPaul’s X/Twitter profile: https://x.com/pkcapitolOther Writers Discussed in the Episode:Gabe’s Wake Up to Politics Newsletter This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Nate Smolensky, a strategist for independent candidates and author of Common Ground From the Ground Up, about why independent identification is rising (about 45% and growing) and what people want from politics: less pessimism, more authenticity, problem-solving, and respectful engagement. Smolensky distinguishes independents as candidates and voters not beholden to either major party and argues the parties optimize for base-driven, alienating messaging—accelerated since 1994 and amplified by social media—while blocking competition through spoiler narratives. He highlights several independent campaigns polling competitively and explains “second option” strategies in one-party strongholds. The conversation also explores existential fear politics, voter empowerment, and Smolensky’s “collaborative discourse” approach—moving from win-lose argument to learning, “yes-and” additive conversations, and policy discussions that incorporate multiple perspectives.00:00 Independents Can Break Gridlock00:19 Meet the Hosts and Nate01:54 Why So Many Independents02:20 Authenticity Over Policy04:28 What Independent Really Means07:17 Representation Gap and Median Voter09:15 Parties Cater to the Base11:28 Politics as Market Segmentation14:15 How the Strategy Took Hold17:09 Independent Candidates Rising20:00 Spoiler Effect and Vote Shaming28:08 Existential Threat Messaging32:43 Independents as Fulcrum34:27 Earn My Vote Messaging37:20 Collaborative Discourse Explained40:24 Stop Trying to Convert45:20 Zero Sum vs Additive51:42 Yes And Policy Thinking55:48 Moral Beliefs vs Policy58:06 Hope and Where to Find01:00:22 Closing Thanks and OutroResources* Nate’s book Finding Common Ground This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

On We Made This Political, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with writer Ben Appel about his memoir Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic and how identity, group loyalty, and the need for belonging shape belief and punish dissent. Appel describes returning to school at Columbia at 33 after a career in hairdressing and personal struggles, and how campus culture, critical theory, and political sloganeering pushed him to question reductive binaries, self-censorship, and seeing government as good only when it serves “my side.” The conversation covers polarization, the lack of ideological viewpoint diversity in education, pressures to conform, debates within gay communities such as marriage equality, and concerns about medicalizing gender-nonconforming youth and the difficulties faced by detransitioners. Appel finds hope in stepping back from social media, connecting with people, and focusing on everyday respect and curiosity, including talking to Trump voters as fellow human beings.00:00 Talk to Trump Voters00:19 Meet Ben Appel01:53 Why Write Cis White Gay06:57 Parroting Politics13:14 Life Experience at Columbia19:23 Starved for Viewpoints23:23 Critical Theory as Dogma25:40 Binary Thinking and Trump31:54 Language Policing in Academia36:09 Identity Buckets Debate37:40 Growing Up Effeminate40:42 From Inclusion to Medicalization44:15 Critical Theory Distraction50:22 Performing Identity Wrong52:40 Gay Marriage Clash01:03:18 Detransitioners Aftercare Gap01:07:09 Finding Hope Offline01:15:05 Wrap Up and CreditsResourcesBen’s Substack Ben Appel’s NewsletterBen’s book, Cis White Gay This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host We Made This Political live with guest Corey Nathan, host of Talking Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other, to discuss how to disagree without dehumanizing. Corey shares his shifts from an observant Jewish upbringing to becoming a born-again Christian, how family and church conflicts shaped his commitment to healthier civic conversation, and his critique of American evangelicalism as tied to colonialism and power. Lauren describes her complex religious background and conversion to Catholicism, emphasizing perspective shifting, resisting silos, and distinguishing toleration from relativism. Lura, Lauren, and Corey explore curiosity as a practice, fear and existential framing as drivers of polarization, when firm boundaries and pushback are necessary (especially against leaders harming vulnerable groups), and why civic renewal efforts and everyday people still give them hope.00:00 Meet the Hosts00:56 Introducing Corey Nathan02:30 Corey’s Faith and Politics Shift06:43 Lauren’s Interfaith Upbringing10:19 Why Lauren Became Catholic13:03 Evangelicalism and Empire Critique18:34 Earning Worth vs Grace20:36 Repairing the World Together23:51 Holding Tension Not Binaries28:26 Weaponized Faith in Politics30:37 Keep Reading the Scripture34:20 No Neat Answers35:13 Pets and Polarization35:59 Jesus and the Pharisees37:39 Curious Over Furious40:30 Cultivating Curiosity42:17 Grace and One Degree45:06 When to Push Back50:16 Fear Shuts Down Dialogue55:03 Most People Are Nuanced56:51 Hope and Civic Renewal01:00:42 Where to Find Corey01:01:34 Closing and CreditsResourcesFind Corey on Substack here.Find his podcast Talkin’ Politics and Religion Without Killing Each Other here. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview writer and essayist Leah Sargent about her book The Dignity of Dependence, arguing that dependence is a normal, dignified part of human life rather than an interruption to flourishing, and that a false ideal of autonomy undermines a just society. They discuss how prosperity and medical buffering foster illusory control, American frontier individualism, and rights language that downplays duties, while emphasizing that people often fear depending on others more than being depended upon, citing suicide and euthanasia motivations. The conversation explores asymmetry in relationships, gratitude, and responding to help without denying burden, then connects dependence to Christian life and grace, Catholic conversion, and finitude. They examine motherhood, parenting, “the given,” and limits of agency, and consider birth and death as non-purely-medical events shaped by trust, home birth/hospice, and professionalization, extending to mental illness, disability, and reciprocal community accommodations.00:00 Meet Leah Sargent00:34 Why Dependence Has Dignity02:04 Family and Life Cycles03:29 Prosperity and Control Illusions05:49 American Independence Myth07:04 Rights Duties and Ownership11:17 Fear of Being a Burden14:30 Asymmetry and Gratitude17:43 Faith Grace and Dependence25:40 Agency Limits and Doomscrolling28:25 Motherhood and Being Finite32:30 Accepting the Given34:35 Stoicism and Christian Suffering35:15 Trust in Childbirth38:20 Birth Plans and Support40:50 Birth and Death as Dependence44:02 Professionalizing Death45:11 Regulation and Human Goodbyes49:04 Hospital Noise and Dignity50:17 Mental Illness and Asymmetry53:30 Accommodation and Reciprocity55:47 Dementia Cafes and Interdependence58:04 Closing Thoughts and Where to Find LeahResourcesFind Leah’s work at https://leahlibresco.com/You can find links to her books, including The Dignity of Dependence, here.Articles mentioned in the podcast: Everyone is Eventually a Burden and Mothers Are Not Machines This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

On the We Made This Political podcast, hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview David Beckmeyer, creator of Outrage Overload, about how constant political conflict shapes emotions, behavior, and relationships. Beckmeyer explains he began the project after seeing post-2016 and COVID-era outrage break friendships and families, and after recognizing his own role in online pile-ons. They discuss how outrage can feel rewarding through shared social judgment, how misinformation and especially framing distort public understanding, and how social media enables people to form insulated bubbles at global scale—even without algorithms. The conversation emphasizes complexity, trade-offs, and opportunity costs in policy debates, urging curiosity, practical “scripts” like “tell me more,” boundaries when needed, and more local, relationship-based engagement to reduce polarization.00:00 Online Bubbles Begin00:28 Podcast And Guest Intro01:54 Why Outrage Overload04:17 The Reward Of Outrage06:09 Lessons From 125 Experts08:40 Tech Algorithms And Misinformation13:20 Framing And Media Funnels16:29 Local Community Reality Check19:04 Landscape And Ecosystem Thinking22:51 Tradeoffs Over Talking Points23:48 COVID Debates Gone Wrong30:20 Immigration As Outrage Bludgeon34:35 Bridging Work Surprise35:26 Why People Resist Bridging37:49 Tribal Segregation Instincts39:15 Outrage Versus Overload40:14 Tradeoffs And Bandwidth42:06 Relationships Breaking Apart44:06 Stop Trying To Win46:24 Curiosity Scripts That Work53:48 Shared Projects Humanize56:50 Parenting Lessons On Outrage01:00:04 Tell Me More Mindset01:02:24 Where To Find David01:03:14 Reasons For Optimism01:04:30 Final Thanks And OutroResources:Find all of David’s work, including his podcast Outrage Overload, at outrageoverload.net This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Colleen Shogan, the 11th Archivist of the United States, about practicing public history in a polarized, low-trust environment. Shogan explains the Archivist’s nonpartisan, Senate-confirmed role overseeing a nationwide federal agency, and describes being fired by President Trump without the legally required explanation to Congress. She discusses the personal impact, support she received, and her quick return to work through More Perfect’s “In Pursuit” project. The conversation covers why politicizing institutions like the National Archives and Library of Congress fuels public suspicion, the need to hold complexity and nuance in American history, and how archives enable evolving interpretations. Shogan warns that inadequate funding threatens access to massive born-digital records and outlines plans for a costly “system of systems,” while noting archives’ future importance in verifying truth amid deepfakes.00:00 Welcome and Introductions01:05 What an Archivist Does03:25 Nonpartisan Role Explained06:03 Fired Without Explanation08:28 Criticism From Both Sides12:08 Coping and Moving Forward17:19 New Platform After NARA18:44 Polarization and Trust Crisis23:42 Holding Complexity in History26:39 Lincoln Douglass and Nuance31:19 Revising History Temptation32:13 Blimp View History33:20 Critical Juncture Debate34:11 Why Archives Matter35:59 Reconstruction Records Lessons38:32 Born Digital Crisis43:01 Access Not Storage44:14 Deepfakes Trust Proof47:17 In Pursuit Project55:51 Learning From Failures01:01:01 Planning Next 250ResourcesCheck out the wonderful collection of essays celebrating our nation’s 250th at In Pursuit and the podcast In Pursuit with Colleen Shogan This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing than power, and interview Joshua Bandoch, author of How to Get What You Want and VP of Policy at the Illinois Policy Institute. Bandoch explains he wrote the book after seeing good ideas fail without effective communication, arguing persuasion requires emotional intelligence because people feel before they reason and emotions support reasoning. The discussion connects persuasion to curiosity, pluralism, and polarization, criticizing “logic tsunamis,” tribal signaling, and viewing opponents as “crazy, stupid, or evil.” Drawing on moral foundations theory, Bandoch urges understanding others’ values rather than trying to change them, and emphasizes positive, “for something” leadership as more persuasive than fear-based negativity. He also applies persuasion to parenting by offering children off-ramps and modeling calm emotional regulation. The book releases tomorrow and Bandoch can be found on LinkedIn and joshuabandoch.com.00:00 Meet the Hosts00:57 Introducing Josh and His Book01:38 Why Persuasion Matters02:45 Feelings Before Reason07:25 Positive Emotions Win People Over10:37 Curiosity Over Crusading12:40 Polarization and the Persuasive Mindset16:16 Moral Foundations and Wired Values18:18 Pluralism and Appealing to Values23:01 Tribalism, Power, and Losing Persuasion26:16 Fear Behind Being Right27:16 Practicing Being Wrong27:37 Fear Politics and Curiosity31:44 Negativity Bias in Media33:02 Why Positivity Persuades36:39 Pope Leo vs Trump Messaging39:23 Trump Empathy and Slogans42:59 Right vs Making Difference46:34 Off Ramps and Face Saving48:29 Why Americans Polarize51:44 Parenting as Persuasion53:46 Book Plug and Farewell This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Laura Forcum and Lauren Hall host “We Made This Political,” a podcast about making politics more about flourishing and less about power, and interview civic entrepreneur Sam Daley-Harris, author of Reclaiming Our Democracy. Daley-Harris recounts his path from percussionist and former symphony musician to founding the anti-poverty lobby RESULTS after confronting world hunger and discovering most students couldn’t name their member of Congress. He contrasts “transactional” actions like petitions with “transformational advocacy” built on recruitment and community, training, practice, coaching, relationship-building, deep listening, and encouraging people to move beyond their comfort zones. The conversation explores how music-informed rehearsal and collective experience support advocacy, why cynicism can be paralyzing, and how sustained citizen engagement can influence outcomes, including efforts affecting proposed cuts to the EPA, maternal and child health, and the Global Fund.00:00 Podcast Intro00:51 Sam’s Music Past06:28 From Music to Advocacy10:48 Music Skills in Activism18:30 Collective Effervescence20:47 Beating Cynicism With Action29:24 Transactional vs Transformational31:35 Three Pillars of Advocacy32:26 Breakthroughs Beyond Comfort33:42 Amnesty Letters Perspective35:55 Coaching Through Listening40:34 Relationships Over Wins42:04 Long Game Advocacy Wins47:41 Protests Voting Missing Piece56:59 Pseudo Politics Real Action59:14 Bipartisanship For Durability01:03:50 Optimism Resources FarewellResourcesCheck out Sam’s book Reclaiming Our Democracy and Sam’s website Reclaiming Our Democracy for more info on transformational advocacy and how to contact Sam. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host Joe Waters, CEO of Capita, to discuss how government should promote the common good by creating social conditions that help people and families flourish. Waters explains Capita’s founding in 2018 to address how major transformations—artificial intelligence, demographic change, political realignment, and climate disruption—affect families, and to push longer-term policy thinking beyond short-term fixes. He highlights Capita’s work with the Aspen Institute on the U.S. Early Years Climate Action Task Force and its Unifying Family Policy series. The conversation focuses on public distrust driven by systems failures, the need for politicians to listen more directly to constituents, and the importance of stability and predictability in work schedules and public institutions. They also discuss mental health as shaped by family and community conditions, Waters’ Catholic social teaching framework, and sources of optimism including springtime and anticipated papal interventions.00:00 Common Good Defined00:44 Podcast Introductions02:18 Why Capita Exists05:52 Climate and Early Years08:08 Family Policy Agenda10:27 Wicked Problems Framework11:58 Center Left Lost Narrative17:20 FDR Lessons on Trust19:17 Listening and Access Gap26:47 Stability and Predictability29:47 Unpredictability And Politics30:48 Regressive Impacts Of Closures32:01 Institution Attacks And Chaos33:54 Democrats And Durable Governance34:42 Cuts Medicaid Snap Fallout36:15 Exploitation And Anti Incumbent Wave37:43 Mental Health Beyond Individuals42:07 Common Good And Citizenship45:59 Stability Across Ideologies49:56 Catholic Social Teaching Lens51:22 Wrap Up And Where To Follow52:18 Optimism Spring And Pope Leo54:33 Final Thanks And OutroResourcesFind Joe and his podcast Per Capita at Capita.org. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall interview Mike Lee, director of the Civility Initiative at the College of Charleston and host of When We Disagree, about how to improve disagreement through both debate and dialogue. Lee argues dialogue requires letting go of winning to humanize conflict and preserve long-term relationships, while debate uses evidence and stress-testing to clarify issues and strengthen arguments; done well, each supports the other. Hall shares a pandemic-era student government conflict involving Slack disputes, Blue Lives Matter symbolism, privacy, and free speech, which revealed the need for dialogue alongside principled adjudication. They discuss conflict avoidance on campuses, perspective-taking and mentalizing, structured on-ramps and accessible topics to make disagreement less threatening, and whether media can scale healthier models via parasocial contact. Lee ends with optimism about people’s hunger for connection and the return of sunshine in Charleston.Thanks for reading We Made This Political Podcast! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.00:00 Dialogue vs Debate00:41 Podcast Introductions02:20 Civility Initiative Explained03:30 Why the Distinction Matters05:56 Campus Conflict Case Study10:09 Forbearance and Relationships11:26 Do Students Want to Win15:13 Debate Kids and Parenting18:56 Active Listening Can Weaponize23:52 Conflict Avoidance on Campus27:26 Three Ways to Spark Debate31:35 Curiosity Shift Drill33:33 Debate as Perspective Taking36:46 Mentalization Against Tribalism40:28 Can Good Debate Scale43:43 Adam Smith and Sympathy47:58 Parasocial Contact Through Media52:12 Teaching Dialogue in Class54:32 Adversarial Collaboration Model58:51 Hopeful Closing and PlugsResourcesYou can find Mike’s books here: Creating ConservatismWe Are Not One People: Secession and Separatism in American Politics Since 1776 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host Elizabeth Neumann, former DHS assistant secretary for counterterrorism and author of Kingdom of Rage, to discuss how dynamics long studied overseas—radicalization, identity threat, and extremist mobilization—have intensified in U.S. politics, with data showing a post-2016 shift in plots and attacks and a growing public tolerance for hostile action. Neumann argues ideology is often a poor explanation for violence compared with unmet needs for belonging and significance, crisis moments, and pervasive online exposure to extremist content; she distinguishes radical ideas from extremism, defined as believing hostile action is the only choice. The conversation covers dehumanizing discourse as a key driver, the limits of arguing people out of beliefs, the role of empathy in disengagement, algorithmic rage incentives, smartphone-era mental health and nihilism, gender patterns in attacks, and redefining success and meaning amid uncertainty.00:00 Podcast Welcome01:04 Meet Elizabeth Neumann02:13 When Threats Came Home04:47 Fragile Communities Parallel08:12 Beyond Ideology Labels11:14 Defining Extremism Clearly13:05 Hostile Action Spectrum16:26 Tribalism and Belonging18:31 Labels and Language Traps22:21 Harm Discourse Spiral26:04 How People Disengage29:26 Empathy With Boundaries31:47 Daryl Davis Example34:15 Empathy and Backstory36:00 Why Rage Spreads39:12 Always Online Effects42:04 From Outrage to Violence45:16 Taking Back Control46:25 Gender and Extremism52:01 Meaning and Uncertainty01:00:00 Redefining Success01:05:27 Values and Hopeful Paths01:07:11 Where to Find Elizabeth01:08:06 Closing CreditsResourcesRead Elizabeth’s book Kingdom of Rage and follow her on Substack, where she writes the newsletter, Courageous Faith. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In the final episode of their parenting series, hosts Laura Forcum and Lauren Hall recap conversations with Peter Gray, Darby Saxby, and Helen Roy, focusing on what it would mean to take care seriously in a culture that undervalues and genders care. They discuss how care has become siloed and often invisible through professionalization, regulation, and divided civic spaces, with COVID highlighting schools as major providers of childcare. They argue that weakened communal networks and heightened risk aversion reduce alloparenting, limit children’s practice navigating different rules, and contribute to passivity and reliance on authority. Linking self-knowledge, intuition, and agency to civic health, they emphasize cultivating agency through habits, discomfort, chores, and solitude, aiming for flourishing rather than comfort, and close by recommending prior episodes and sharing family milestones.00:00 Final Episode Setup01:37 Why Care Matters04:44 Punch the Monkey Lesson10:10 COVID Revealed Childcare12:18 Care in Public Spaces15:18 Small Town Responsibility17:29 Losing Care Skills21:03 Regulation Makes Help Hard24:58 Alloparenting and Risk27:09 Discipline and Flexibility32:58 Self Trust and Authority35:46 Judging Law as Citizens37:57 Intuition and Power39:37 Agency Against Authority43:49 Systems That Train Compliance46:21 Civic Solitude and Boredom49:22 Parenting for Values59:06 Flourishing Not Comfort01:01:11 Civic Mindset at Home01:02:46 Wrap Up and Gratitude This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura and Lauren welcome writer and mother of four Helen Roy of Helen Roy Writes to the podcast We Made This Political for their parenting month series. Roy describes how her early work as an analyst at the Defense Intelligence Agency, graduate study in Western moral tradition and Aristotle’s virtue ethics, and concern about national identity and lack of grand strategy led her to see the family as a basic unit of civilization and parenting as work with deep civic meaning. She shares how meeting her husband (her first Bumble date) shifted her view of family life, and emphasizes that raising a family can be central without diminishing intellectual or professional work. The conversation turns to Roy’s “Call Your Mom” advice series and her view of feminism, which she identifies as “care feminism” and “Catholic feminism,” drawing in part from radical Black feminist legacies that center care as legitimate economic, spiritual, and politically significant work. They discuss care as protection and resistance, including examples from the history of Black midwifery, and criticize contemporary conservative anti-feminist arguments that dismiss feminism by redefining it narrowly while taking for granted feminist achievements such as age-of-consent reforms and legal protections. Roy argues misogyny remains present in culture and politics, citing public reactions and comments around the Epstein files as attempts to minimize women’s anger and enforce silence. Roy explains how these convictions shape her parenting: teaching daughters not to abandon themselves, cultivating attention to inner voice and God’s voice, reinforcing bodily integrity by not forcing affection, and protecting boundaries around children’s bodies. She describes writing advice in the voice she herself needed—offering mentorship and insisting romantic love should imitate divine love. Roy also reflects on her movement away from rigid, black-and-white thinking, saying early motherhood—especially a traumatic birth experience and health consequences from rigid breastfeeding ideals—humbled her and pushed her toward moderation and complexity. The episode closes with Roy’s view that optimism is both natural and a deliberate choice, echoing her mother’s note that “optimism is a force multiplier,” and she shares where listeners can find her work on Substack and Instagram.00:00 Welcome to the Podcast + Meet Helen Roy01:56 Parenting as Civic Life: When Family Becomes Political02:34 From National Security to Aristotle: Family as the Unit of Civilization07:06 Meaning in the Concrete: Grand Strategy, Faith, and Subsidiarity09:25 Is There a ‘Helen Roy Feminism’? Introducing Care Feminism15:21 Care as Resistance: Black Midwifery and the Politics of Protection18:04 Why Feminism Still Matters: Rights, History, and Conservative Anti-Feminism23:53 Women’s Work in Religion & the New Pushback on Women’s Humanity28:49 Misogyny in Plain Sight: Epstein Files, ‘Smile More,’ and Silencing Women35:40 Parenting Daughters (and Sons) with Human Dignity in Mind36:43 Parenting Girls in an Unfair World (and What We Do to Boys Too)37:33 Raising Kids Not to Abandon Themselves: Inner Voice, God’s Voice & Boundaries39:53 Body Integrity & Intuition as a ‘Superpower’42:01 ‘You’re Made for So Much More’: Emotional & Spiritual Integrity in Love43:32 Writing Advice as Mentorship: The Voice She Needed Growing Up46:33 Rejecting ‘Pottery Barn Catholicism’ & Fundamentalist Mommy Culture50:42 Radical Moderation: Escaping Gender Binaries and One-Brand Feminism52:37 From Extremes to Humility: Motherhood, Trauma, and Letting Go of Certainty58:08 Grace, Control, and Being ‘Broken Open’ (With or Without Kids)59:34 Optimism as a Choice: Hope, Destiny, and Closing ReflectionsResourcesHelen’s amazing Substack is here: https://helenroy.substack.com/aboutFurther ReadingDiscussed in the episode include Chantal Delsol’s book Icarus Fallen. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host an episode of We Made This Political featuring clinical psychologist and USC professor Darby Saxbe, whose research focuses on the transition to parenthood, fathers’ roles, and how family relationships shape mental and physical health. The conversation covers alloparenting and humans as cooperative breeders, arguing that shared caregiving and community support are central to healthy parenting and maternal mental health. They discuss how modern U.S. life—built environments, isolation, intensive parenting norms, and limited policy supports—raises stress for parents and may deter family formation. Saxbe notes evidence across OECD countries that higher male contributions to housework and parenting are positively correlated with birth rates, and argues that coercive or women-disadvantaging pronatalist approaches are counterproductive, citing Romania as a warning. They critique polarized “trad wife vs. girl boss” framings, discuss the Heritage Foundation’s pronatalist messaging and gender-hostile narratives, and also acknowledge left-leaning cultural messages that can shade into hostility toward families. The episode touches on marriage declines, men’s increasing time with children, the influence of manosphere content on boys, and the importance of raising boys to be capable partners through non-gendered expectations around care and domestic labor. They compare child-friendliness across countries (including Denmark, Sweden, Spain, South Korea, and Mexico), emphasizing public spaces, zoning, and liability structures that shape family life. Saxbe closes with cautious optimism that current political and cultural turbulence could lead to renewed valuing of care, and the hosts encourage listeners to read Saxbe’s Substack Natal Gazing and pre-order her upcoming book on the neurobiology of fatherhood.00:00 Birth Rates & the Case for Dads Doing More at Home00:47 Meet the Hosts + Introducing Psychologist Darby Saxbe02:18 Why Study Fatherhood? Darby’s Origin Story04:38 Alloparenting 101: Humans as Cooperative Breeders08:50 Isolation, “What’s Natural,” and the Myth of the 1950s Family11:33 The Rise of Intensive Parenting (and Why It’s Crushing Parents)15:28 What’s Really Behind Falling Birth Rates? Money, Stress, and Gender Roles17:47 Pronatalism vs Antinatalism: How Family Became a Culture-War Issue25:01 Toxic Narratives on Right and Left: Tradwife vs Girlboss30:36 Where Are the Men? Fatherhood, Marriage, and the Manosphere34:04 A Better Model in Academia: When Leadership Supports Parents34:30 No Parental Leave Policy: Finding an Ally in the Department Chair35:43 Why Parent Representation in Politics Shapes Family Policy36:22 When Maternity Leave Depends on One Mentor (and Why That’s a Problem)37:29 Suspicion Toward Moms, Praise for Dads: The Cultural Double Standard39:34 Policy Isn’t Everything: Sweden, Incentives, and the Need for Culture Change41:00 The Real Tradeoffs of Parenting + Where Kids Do (and Don’t) Belong44:20 South Korea’s No-Kids Signs vs. Mexico’s Child-Delight Culture48:48 What Family-Friendly Cities Look Like: Denmark, Sweden, Barcelona, Austria52:48 Zoning, Liability, and the Case for More ‘Beer Gardens with Playgrounds’55:08 Raising Boys Today: Algorithms, Masculinity, and Teaching Self-Sufficiency01:00:33 Optimism, Plugs, and Farewell: Care, Realignment, and the New BookResources:Pre-order Darby’s book Dad Brain, coming in June.Read her current work on her Substack Natal Gazing.Some other great thinkers on biology and parenting: Sarah Blaffer Hrdy’s books Mother Nature and Mothers and Others This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Peter Gray, research psychologist and professor emeritus at Boston College, to discuss the crucial role of play in human development and education. Peter shares insights from his studies on the impact of unstructured play, autonomy, and curiosity on children’s psychological well-being and learning. Through personal anecdotes and research findings, the conversation explores how current schooling systems quash curiosity and independence, and suggests ways parents can foster a more play-driven and exploratory environment for their children at home. This episode is a deep dive into understanding how play and freedom influence growth, independence, and lifelong happiness.00:00 The Power of Curiosity00:43 Introduction of Hosts and Guest01:30 Peter Gray’s Background and Influence03:30 The Concept of ‘Good Enough’ Parenting04:10 Peter Gray’s Journey into Play Research05:48 The Sudbury Valley School Experience09:06 Observational Study on Play14:01 Evolutionary Perspective on Play and Learning21:19 Challenges in Modern Education and Parenting32:59 The Flaws of Traditional Schooling33:40 The Power of Play in Career Development35:46 Misalignment of Career Aspirations and Interests40:07 The Increasing Burden of School on Children43:35 The Criminalization of Common Sense Parenting50:54 The Democratic Nature of Play58:58 Optimism for the Future of Education01:03:11 Final Thoughts and Encouragement for ParentsResourcesPeter Gray’s Substack Play Makes Us HumanPeter’s book Free to LearnLet Grow website, with resources for families, schools, and policymakers on fostering independent play This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host documentary filmmaker Rob Feld. The conversation delves into the increasing polarization in American politics and public discourse, highlighting the impact of social media and algorithms. Rob shares insights from his film ‘Jesters and Fools,’ which uses comedians to explore polarization, cancel culture and self-censorship. Topics include the roles of outrage and anger in comedy, the challenges of civil discourse in higher education, and parenting in the digital age. The episode also touches on the importance of engaging with those who hold differing views to foster understanding and move past divisions.00:00 Introduction to Political Centrism and Extremism00:53 Meet the Hosts: Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall02:05 Introducing Rob Feld: Documentary Filmmaker02:38 The Making of ‘Jesters and Fools’08:19 The Role of Comedians in Discussing Polarization17:44 Impact of Social Media on Public Discourse19:23 Challenges in Higher Education and Free Speech27:28 Navigating Online and Offline Interactions36:46 The Impact of Online Echo Chambers38:08 Parenting in the Age of Social Media45:00 The Role of Outrage in Comedy52:39 The Importance of Free Speech and Civic Dialogue01:01:50 Hope and Optimism in a Polarized WorldResourcesMore about Jesters and Fools, including how to schedule a screening.Find out more about Rob and his production studio Gotham Arts. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of We Made This Political, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Emma Adams, founder and co-executive director of Mormon Women for Ethical Government (MWEG). Emma shares her journey from refugee resettlement volunteer to leading a national organization advocating for ethical governance. The discussion covers MWEG’s mission, peacemaking principles, and fostering bipartisan cooperation. The episode offers insights on navigating political and social conflicts with dignity, understanding, and practical skills for resilience and change.00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds00:49 Guest Introduction: Emma Adams02:02 Emma’s Journey to Advocacy03:31 Founding of Mormon Women for Ethical Government06:34 MWEG’s Mission and Advocacy Areas08:17 Empowering Women in Leadership16:09 Peacemaking and Conflict Transformation20:22 Navigating Political Identity and Engagement26:20 Challenges and Criticisms of Radical Moderation35:13 Skills Building and Philosophy37:02 Parenting and Professional Life39:55 Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Parenting43:45 Political Violence and Community Response59:38 Hope and Optimism in Challenging TimesResourcesMormon Women For Ethical Government This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lauren Hall and Laura Forcum welcome back Shannon Watson, a civic leader from Minnesota, to discuss the current political climate in the state. They explore how Minnesotans are coping with federal interventions, the challenges of polarization, and the importance of local engagement and community resilience. Shannon shares insights on the nuanced reality of Minnesota, highlighting the state’s high civic participation and the critical role of relationship building in addressing political divides. The conversation also touches on the importance of peaceful protest, the rule of law, and efforts to bridge gaps through organizations like Majority in the Middle and What We Can Do Week.00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts01:44 Welcoming Shannon Watson03:07 Current Political Climate in Minnesota07:09 Community Engagement and Civic Participation08:50 Challenges and Emotions Amidst Political Tensions18:19 Protests and Legal Boundaries30:36 Law Enforcement and Public Perception31:57 Behind the Scenes Efforts to Deescalate33:17 The Importance of Full Investigations34:14 Law Enforcement and Public Trust40:56 The Role of Community Organizations47:45 Building Relationships and Trust53:16 The Power of Breaking Bread56:52 Hope and Resilience in Challenging Times58:37 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsMore ResourcesThe Civic Pledge is at www.whatwecandoweek.org/pledgeFind Majority in the Middle at www.majoritymiddle.orgIf you’d like to support Shannon’s depolarization work at Majority in the Middle, consider donating in honor of her birthday at www.majoritymiddle.org/51 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Show Notes:Episode 35: Josh Lewis on Classical Conservatism in a MAGA WorldGuest: Josh Lewis, founder of Saving Elephants podcast and blogAbout Josh:Josh Lewis is a CPA and longtime student of conservative thought who founded Saving Elephants to reignite classical conservatism as a tradition rooted in prudence, gratitude, and community—rather than populism or personality-driven politics. He brings a practical, institution-focused perspective on how enduring conservative ideas can address polarization, civic decay, and the pressures facing younger generations.Episode Summary:In this wide-ranging conversation, hosts Lauren Hall and Lura Forcum discuss the meaning of conservatism in 2025 with Josh Lewis. They explore why political labels have become more tribal than informative, the unique challenges millennials face in understanding conservative principles, and why prudence has been replaced by winning in modern politics. Josh shares his personal journey of stepping down from state Republican Party leadership in 2016 and offers insights on how we might rebuild a politics centered on long-term thinking rather than short-term gains.Key Topics Discussed:Political Labels & Identity* Why “conservative” is so contested in 2025* How labels have shifted from informative to tribal and dehumanizing* The contextual nature of conservatism vs universal ideologies* Being “politically homeless” in modern AmericaMillennials & Conservatism* Why millennials formed their understanding of conservatism during the Bush era* The impact of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars and 2008 financial crisis on conservative credibility* How millennials bridge the analog and digital worlds* The unique economic challenges facing younger generationsGenerational Economics* The structural decisions that created barriers to economic prosperity* Why “playing by the same rules” doesn’t guarantee the same outcomes anymore* The role of credentialing, regulation, and crony capitalism* Student debt and the ecosystem that encouraged it* Growing inequality within the millennial generationPrudence vs Winning* How winning replaced prudence as the core conservative value* The “invasion of the body snatchers” moment in the Republican Party* Why prudence requires thinking beyond our own lifetimes* The tension between conservatism and democracy’s short-term focus* How conservative institutions (Senate, judiciary) were designed to slow democracyTrump & the Republican Party* Josh’s 2016 decision to step down from Republican Party leadership* The hostile takeover and subsequent transformation of the party* Finding fellow travelers and maintaining relationships across disagreements* The distortion field effect of Trump’s demand for loyaltyStructural Reforms* Removing TV cameras from Senate chambers* Expanding the House of Representatives* Reforming the filibuster to require physical presence* The need for Congress to reclaim its constitutional role* Why feedback channels in democracy are being cut offConservative Intellectual Tradition* Edmund Burke as the central figure in conservative thought* Yuval Levin as an accessible modern conservative thinker* The importance of understanding the French Revolution debates* Russell Kirk, Thomas Sowell, and William F. Buckley Jr.* Reading list: 50 conservative thinkers worth your timeReasons for Optimism* Unprecedented reduction in global poverty* Technological and economic progress in recent centuries* The importance of recognizing how well we’re doing historically* The risk of losing progress by pretending “we’ve never had it this bad”Key Quotes:* “I often tell people I’m a classical conservative in hopes that will throw them off enough to think, well, that adjective’s probably doing a lot of work here.”* “Conservatism is almost entirely contextual. What are we conserving? I’m not trying to conserve the Ottoman Empire of the 16th century—I’m trying to conserve the American tradition.”* “We use political labels as shorthand almost exclusively to either say you are on my team, or I don’t like you.”* “Prudence is not just cold calculating what this is going to get me in the future. It’s wedded to a sense of morals and requires humility and sacrifice.”* “The modern Republican party has fallen victim to exactly the same kinds of tendencies in democracy that it previously criticized.”Connect with Josh:* Saving Elephants podcast and blog (savingelephantsblog.com)* Edmund Burke’s “Reflections on the Revolution in France”Resources Mentioned: * Russell Kirk’s “The Conservative Mind” and “10 Principles of Conservatism”* Yuval Levin’s “The Great Debate,” “The Fractured Republic,” and “American Covenant”* Thomas Sowell’s writings* Jonah Goldberg’s “Suicide of the West” This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall engage with Russ Green, managing director of Prime Mover Institute, on the impending crisis of social security and Medicare entitlements in America. They discuss the significant automatic cuts expected by 2033, the misallocation of resources benefiting wealthier retirees at the expense of the younger generation, and the urgent need for reform. Russ shares insights on how current policies unfairly burden young people, offering solutions aimed at a more just distribution of benefits. The conversation touches on broader themes of political division, fiscal responsibility, and the necessity of bipartisan efforts to address looming financial challenges. The episode emphasizes the interplay of justice, political discourse, and economic reality in shaping a sustainable future.00:00 Introduction to Social Security Cuts01:00 Meet the Hosts and Guest01:53 Overview of Boomer Luxury Communism02:53 The Misconceptions and Realities of Social Security05:02 Generational Conflicts and Economic Implications08:31 The Need for Entitlement Reform13:42 Challenges in Addressing Social Security Issues17:50 Political and Economic Consequences26:01 International Comparisons and Broader Implications30:10 Healthcare Spending and Its Impact31:36 Social Security and Wealth Transfer34:41 Political Incentives and Reform Challenges37:21 Framing Economic Issues in Moral Terms40:32 Generational Perspectives on Economic Policies46:07 The Role of Political Discourse in Society54:54 Optimism for Future Generational Change This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In part two of their conversation with Musa Al-Gharbi, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore the future of universities, the impact of AI on faculty, and the sociopolitical dynamics affecting higher education. They discuss the overproduction of PhDs, the exploitative conditions of adjunct faculty, and the erosion of trust in academic and media institutions. The episode delves into how systemic issues in academia and journalism are misrepresented, the role of social and economic class in DEI initiatives, and the importance of nuanced, local conversations to address complex social problems. Al-Gharbi emphasizes the necessity of giving marginalized communities a real voice in institutions to rebuild trust and serve society more equitably. The session also highlights practical steps for fostering inclusive and productive dialogues across political and social divides.00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview01:28 The Future of Universities and AI03:14 The Crisis in Higher Education08:35 Trust in Experts and Institutions15:46 Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Initiatives22:27 Challenges in Representing Marginalized Voices32:56 Local vs. National Conversations on Policy41:33 Closing Thoughts and Optimism This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

The Complex Trust Dilemma: Engaging Expert Perspectives with Musa AlbiIn this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Laura Ham and Lauren Hall dive into the complex dynamics of institutional trust with sociologist Musa al-Gharbi. Musa’s book, ‘We Have Never Been Woke,’ which critiques the gap between elite discourse and lived realities, serves as a focal point for discussing the mistrust of experts. The conversation explores Musa’s unique perspective of being an insider-outsider in the academic world, the limitations of symbolic capitalists, and the often overlooked voices of disadvantaged communities. The episode underscores the nuanced challenges and potential opportunities in addressing social inequalities through a critical examination of how elite professions operate.00:00 Introduction: Why People Mistrust Experts00:52 Meet the Hosts and Today’s Guest01:58 Introducing Musa al-Gharbi and His Work02:37 The Journey of Writing ‘We Have Never Been Woke’07:42 Defining Symbolic Capitalists09:17 Reception and Criticism of the Book16:26 The Role of Language in Social Justice25:41 The Disconnect Between Symbolic Capitalists and Social Justice34:58 The Power Dynamics of Symbolic Capitalists47:07 The Wealth Transfer DilemmaMore ResourcesHow to order Musa’s book: https://musaalgharbi.com/paperback-edition-we-have-never-been-woke/A deep dive on the data behind DEI programs and how we might do them better: https://musaalgharbi.com/2020/09/16/diversity-important-related-training-terrible/A great intro article from Musa’s Substack:An essay on Musa’s point about selective Musa’s excellent postmortem on the 2024 election: A We Have Never Been Woke FAQ, including why taxing billionaires isn’t the silver bullet often claimed: More info on the next book “Those People”: This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall discuss the detrimental effects of narcissism in the political landscape on this episode of ‘We Made This Political.’ Drawing on our backgrounds in political science, psychology, and experiences as parents, we relate the dynamics of abusive personal relationships to those in politics. We explore how political elites exploit voters, highlighting issues like gerrymandering, lack of reciprocity, and the manipulation of policy issues for political gain. The episode emphasizes the need for voters to demand more from their political representatives and the importance of breaking the cycle of dysfunctional political relationships.00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds01:33 Series on Political Abuse02:26 Narcissism in Politics03:18 Workplace Narcissism and Politics06:23 Reciprocity in Social and Political Systems10:23 Narcissistic Political Relationships19:04 Incentives Against Solving Problems24:17 The Illiberal System and Voter Disillusionment25:56 The Distortion of Primaries and Gerrymandering27:58 Challenges in Political Representation30:51 Incentives and Burnout in Politics31:22 The Struggles of Women in Politics32:38 The Pipeline Problem and Congressional Exit38:40 The Role of Independent Voters39:56 The Extractive Nature of Power43:19 Optimism and Community Engagement45:42 Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode, Lura and Lauren dive into their writing processes, discussing how to utilize the mental downtime during the holidays for ideation. They explore strategies for overcoming resistance, the psychology behind creative bursts, and the importance of protecting one’s mental space for self-reflection and creativity. Both emphasize the significance of capturing ideas and using AI tools productively. They share personal journeys, including handling academic criticism and the challenges of balancing work, family, and creative pursuits. The discussion also touches on how to harness everyday activities, like chopping onions or walking, to foster insight and progress in writing. Join Lura and Lauren as they offer practical tips for writers and creatives, encouraging listeners to make space for their own ideas while also finding time to rest this holiday season.00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview00:18 The Writing Process and Ideation Time01:59 Cal Newport’s Deep Work and Creative Insights05:21 Overcoming Resistance in Academic Writing11:09 Dealing with Rejection and Negative Feedback17:34 The Self as a Resource and Protecting Your Creative Space21:24 Balancing Reading and Writing in Academic Work29:48 Protecting the Self in Writing30:10 Kurt Gray’s Insights on Self and Conflict31:33 Buddhist Approach to Self and Writing33:14 Challenges of Writing in the Age of Algorithms35:12 The Importance of Process Over Outcome37:49 Writing Projects and Inspirations40:47 Letters to My Daughters45:05 Memento Mori and Creative Constraints48:50 Using Voice Memos and AI for Writing56:35 Gratitude and Thanksgiving Plans This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall talk with Kurt Gray, author of ‘Outraged.’ They explore strategies for managing political conversations with family during Thanksgiving, emphasizing the importance of connection, curiosity, and validation to prevent conflict. The conversation delves into the social psychology of outrage, the impact of tribalism, and practical tips for maintaining calm and constructive dialogue during the holiday season.00:00 Introduction and Opening Thoughts00:36 Meet the Hosts and Guest01:43 Introducing Kurt Gray and His Work02:54 Handling Political Conversations with Family04:46 The Role of Curiosity in Conversations08:22 Physiological Responses to Outrage15:24 Parenting and Managing Big Feelings17:17 The Importance of Validation in Conversations21:07 Legitimate Outrage vs. Reactive Outrage26:16 Perceptions of Harm and Moral Condemnation30:24 Setting Ground Rules for Difficult Conversations31:29 The Importance of Beginnings31:51 Communication Patterns in Families32:16 Mark Rober’s Friendly Car Horn33:06 Social Engineering and Road Rage34:05 The Power of Asking Questions35:31 Parenting and Moral Emotions37:00 Relinquishing the Self in Conversations38:05 Navigating Anger and De-escalation42:18 Tribalism and Affective Polarization47:50 Practical Tips for Holiday Conversations59:37 Optimism in One-on-One Interactions01:01:56 Conclusion and Where to Find More This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

This is Part II of our conversation with Shaka Mitchell of the Come Together Music Project. If you haven’t listened to Part I, go listen there first and the come back here. In this episode we talk to Shaka about the genesis and journey of the Come Together Music project. Inspired during the height of COVID-19, this initiative leverages music to foster connection and understanding in a divided world. From intimate song swap sessions to large public events, Shaka explains how music can be a powerful tool for building relationships and bridging divides. The conversation also delves into personal stories, including surprising insights from a session with Arizona Supreme Court justices, and explores the transformative power of music-making.00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds01:00 Origins of the Song Swap Idea03:05 The Power of Music in Building Connections05:55 Developing the Format and Future Plans08:27 Music as a Tool for Bridging Divides17:00 Surprising Insights from Guests24:58 Closing Thoughts and Optimism26:45 Where to Find More InformationMore ResourcesShaka’s SubstackThe Come Together Music Project Podcast on SpotifyShaka on music and healing divides on Medium This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

This episode of We Made This Political is cross-posted with the Come Together Music Project, co-hosted with Shaka Mitchell. Together we explore the intersection of politics, parenting, and personal stories through music. We dive into songs that remind us of friends, parenting theme songs, and classic protest anthems, revealing surprising connections and deep insights along the way.00:00 Introduction to the Hosts and Podcast00:52 Welcome to the Come Together Music Project02:33 Musical Memories: Songs That Remind Us of Friends15:24 Parenting Theme Songs: Music That Defines Our Parenting Journey28:12 Parenting Reflections and Daddy Lessons29:33 Preparing Girls for the Future30:49 The Complexity of Raising Daughters32:06 Parenting Playlist and Final Thoughts32:54 Protest Songs and Their Impact34:38 Bob Dylan’s Timeless Protest Anthem41:51 Rage Against the Machine’s Renegades of Funk46:22 Billy Bragg and Woody Guthrie’s Unwelcome Guest53:20 Final Reflections and Surprises58:35 Conclusion and Podcast InformationMore ResourcesShaka’s SubstackThe Come Together Music Project Podcast on SpotifyShaka on music and healing divides on Medium This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

TakeawaysLenore Skenazy is a journalist and founder of Let Grow.Over-parenting leads to increased anxiety in children.Children need opportunities to develop agency and competence.Cultural shifts have changed how we view parenting and risk.Legal frameworks often hinder childhood independence.Play is essential for children’s development and learning.Parents should encourage independence through practical steps.The societal implications of over-parenting are significant.Schools play a crucial role in fostering independence in children.Community support is vital for changing parenting norms.SummaryIn this conversation, Lauren and Lura talk with Lenore Skenazy to discuss the impact of over-parenting on children’s development, emphasizing the importance of fostering independence and resilience. Skenazy highlights the cultural shifts that have led to increased anxiety among children and the role of schools and legal frameworks in shaping parenting practices. Skenazy advocates for practical steps parents can take to encourage independence in their children, including the importance of play and agency. The discussion also touches on the societal implications of over-parenting and the need for community support in changing parenting norms.Sound bites“Everything’s fine.”“Parents get anxious, kids get anxious.”“When adults step back, kids step up.”Chapters00:00 Introduction to Lenore Skenazy and Free Range Kids02:59 The Impact of Over-Parenting on Children05:55 Navigating Anxiety in Modern Youth08:58 The Role of Agency and Competence in Childhood11:56 The Misunderstanding of Safety and Risk15:03 Legislative Efforts for Childhood Independence17:59 The Future of Parenting and Independence21:54 The Impact of Socioeconomic Factors on Parenting26:56 Cultural Perceptions of Safety and Parenting30:54 Empowering Parents to Step Back35:06 The Importance of Free Play in Child Development38:55 Empowering Independence in Children39:24 The Role of Play in Civic Education41:18 The Importance of Self-Governance42:05 The Power of Play and Collaboration44:58 Natural Learning vs. Instruction46:33 The Flaws in Teaching Methods49:33 Burnout in Education and Parenting51:10 Trusting Children to Learn52:08 Resources for Fostering IndependenceFurther Reading/ResourcesLet Grow, including Lenore’s wonderful (and free!) Four Weeks to a Let Grow Kid guide, is a resource filled with ideas and free resources for kids, parents, communities, and teachers.Peter Gray’s work on childhood play is fantastic.Jonathan Haidt’s book The Anxious Generation is a great read. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Furious Minds and the State of Modern ConservatismIn this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Laura K. Field, a political theorist and author of the forthcoming book ‘Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right.’ They discuss the intellectual currents shaping the American right, the state of modern conservatism, and the potential dangers of current political trends. The conversation also covers the roles and challenges of women within conservative circles and the importance of engaging across political divides.00:00 Introduction and Hosts’ Backgrounds00:55 Guest Introduction: Laura Field01:58 Discussing ‘Furious Minds’ and Its Origins03:13 The Straussian Influence and Conservative Education04:08 The Rise of Trump and Intellectual Shifts05:38 Conservative Ideals vs. Modern Realities10:28 The Radicalization of the Right21:22 Dehumanization and Political Tactics31:52 Conservative Rhetoric and Future Ambitions35:11 Women in Conservative Circles37:32 Exploring Masculinity in Conservative Movements38:07 The Role and Status of Women in Conservative Spaces38:35 Personal Reflections on Gender and Feminism40:46 Misogyny in Right-Wing Populism43:30 Philosophical Debates on Gender Equality48:14 The Crisis of Masculinity and Political Implications55:24 The Importance of Engagement and Dialogue01:03:18 Optimism and Final Thoughts This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall explore the importance of face-to-face interactions in politics with guest Wilk Wilkinson, host of the ‘Derate The Hate’ podcast. Wilk shares his journey of replacing division with understanding, influenced by his background in transportation and operations management. He talks about his work with Braver Angels, a grassroots cross-partisan movement, and emphasizes the need for better communication and courageous citizenship. The conversation covers the significance of personal engagement, the challenges in the bridging space, and how fostering real-world interactions can lead to a more united society.00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview01:04 Guest Introduction: Wilk Wilkinson02:24 Wilk’s Journey to ‘Derate The Hate’06:28 The Impact of Podcasting and Positive Conversations08:33 Addressing Toxic Polarization and Bridging Divides20:16 Challenges in the Bridging Space27:36 Encouraging Civic Engagement and Real-Life Interactions32:29 The Importance of Face-to-Face Interactions34:29 Overcoming Anxiety and Building Confidence36:11 Misconceptions and Political Divides39:46 The Power of Everyday Interactions44:02 Lessons from Personal Experiences48:37 Parenting and Curiosity54:34 Challenges in Political Systems56:45 Leadership and Human Connection01:01:35 Hope for a United FutureMore Resources: Listen to Wilk’s podcast here: https://deratethehate.com/Find a local Braver Angels chapter and get involved here: https://braverangels.org/ This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall delve into the pervasive toxicity within modern politics. They draw parallels between the features of abusive personal relationships and the current political system, highlighting concepts like gaslighting, narcissism, isolation, and trauma bonding. The duo discusses how the two major political parties manipulate voters through fear, control, and intermittent reinforcement, maintaining a cycle of abuse and disillusionment. They propose solutions like embracing non-binary thinking, forming coalitions, and demanding real solutions to reclaim a sense of agency and accountability. Their insightful conversation aims to transform how we engage with politics, emphasizing flourishing and relationship-building over power and division.00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview00:52 Exploring the Toxicity of Politics01:25 Relationship Metaphors in Politics03:38 Gaslighting in Politics22:51 Political Narcissism and Abuse of Power29:01 Trauma Bonding with Political Parties31:46 Survivors’ Reactions to Crisis32:37 Parenting and Political Choices33:31 Attachment Theory and Politics35:51 Ingroup and Outgroup Dynamics38:09 Breaking the Cycle of Political Abuse40:50 Boundaries and Accountability in Politics45:45 Demanding Real Solutions from Politicians52:09 The Role of Media in Political Dynamics55:36 Optimism and Positive Directions01:02:07 Closing Thoughts and Call to Action This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Breaking the Two-Party Doom Loop with Lee DrutmanIn this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by political scientist Lee Drutman to discuss his insights on breaking the two-party doom loop in American politics. Drutman shares his journey into political science, the influence of business lobbying on Congress, and the centralization of power that contributes to hyperpartisan polarization. The conversation delves into how primary reforms and rank-choice voting fall short, advocating instead for proportional representation and fusion voting. They also touch on the importance of rebuilding community and social infrastructure to foster healthier democratic engagement. This episode provides a comprehensive look at the challenges and potential solutions to America’s political dysfunction.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:57 Lee Drutman’s Background and Career04:56 The Influence of Lobbyists in Congress08:57 The Two-Party Doom Loop09:48 Gerrymandering and Political Polarization21:37 The Role of Leadership and Dehumanization in Politics28:14 The Impact of Corporate Lobbying on Polarization31:09 Government Shutdowns and Political Strategy36:19 Democrats’ Struggle with Messaging37:41 Trump’s Transformation of the Republican Party38:51 The Power of In-Group and Out-Group Dynamics40:49 The Importance of Fun in Politics44:41 Challenges of Coalition Management52:56 The Need for Electoral Reform56:26 Rebuilding Community and Social Infrastructure01:07:21 The Complexity of Political Systems01:09:33 Ending on a Hopeful Note This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode, we welcome Andrew Heaton, host of The Political Orphanage podcast, comedian, and author of ‘Tribalism is Dumb.’ Lura introduces Andrew, who shares his journey from Capitol Hill staffer to political satirist and comedian. Andrew discusses the interplay of humor, politics, and tribalism, sharing anecdotes about his stand-up experiences and insights into how comedy can bridge political divides. The conversation touches on the challenges of political polarization, the role of humor in building trust, and the evolving nature of comedy in an age of affective polarization. The episode concludes with a hopeful note on humanity’s progress and potential for the future.00:00 Welcome and Introduction of Andrew Heaton00:49 Heaton’s Journey: From Comedy to Politics01:40 The Rise of Tribalism in Comedy and Politics04:54 The Impact of Humor on Political Discourse07:39 Navigating Offensive Humor and Intent09:41 The Role of Political Humor in Media21:41 Humor as a Tool for Building Trust and Connection32:08 The Evolution of Comedy in a Polarized World35:38 The Challenges of Political Satire36:14 The Evolution of Political Comedy37:14 Audience Reactions to Political Jokes38:56 The Impact of Political Polarization46:50 Gerrymandering and Political Representation56:35 Optimism for the Future01:04:40 Closing Remarks and Self-Promotion This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of ‘We Made This Political,’ Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall host civil rights attorney Anastasia Boden from the Pacific Legal Foundation. The discussion delves into the fundamental right to economic liberty and the challenges posed by burdensome economic regulations like certificate of need laws. Anastasia shares inspiring stories from her career advocating for entrepreneurs and small businesses, highlighting the human costs of unfair regulations and the transformative impact of legal advocacy. Tune in to explore how personal passion, legal expertise, and economic freedom intersect to promote flourishing communities.00:00 Introduction to the American Dream and Economic Rights01:02 Meet the Hosts and Guest Introduction03:26 Anastasia Bowden’s Journey and Passion for Law05:32 The Importance of Empathy in Law07:10 The Role of Process and Procedure in Legal Systems10:56 Economic Rights vs. Civil Rights21:32 The Impact of Certificate of Need Laws32:17 The Impact of Certificate of Need Laws33:36 A Personal Story: Hasidic Women’s EMT Service34:56 The Bipartisan Agreement on Certificate of Need Laws37:52 Challenges in Repealing Entrenched Laws42:03 The Regulatory Thicket and Its Impact on Small Businesses45:59 The Courage of Entrepreneurs47:12 The Role of Constitutional Lawsuits51:49 The Human Cost of Regulations59:29 Hope in Local Community Actions This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode, Lura and Lauren delve into the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, discussing the multifaceted impact of his life and death. They explore the broader issues surrounding escalating political violence, the distinction between free speech and civil discourse, and the dangers of dehumanizing opponents. The conversation shifts to the manipulation tactics used in political rhetoric and the crisis facing young men today. They reflect on the societal and psychological factors contributing to these trends, emphasizing the importance of understanding, empathy, and building relationships. Despite the challenging topics, they offer a hopeful perspective on the resilience of everyday kindness and the role of personal agency in fostering positive interactions.00:00 Introduction and Overview00:07 Discussing Charlie Kirk's Assassination02:04 Public Figures and Perception03:56 Speech, Harm, and Political Violence05:52 Dehumanization and Empathy08:08 Manipulation and Tribalism09:01 Ideological Violence and Alienation11:07 Complexity of Political Beliefs14:14 Youth Alienation and Radicalization21:14 Cancel Culture and Free Speech25:26 Factions and Freedom26:53 Conservative Contradictions and Political Hypocrisy27:55 The Importance of Experiencing Opposing Views29:14 First Amendment and Free Speech29:46 The Role of the Supreme Court in Protecting Speech30:28 Government Pressure on Private Entities33:54 Polarization and Tribalism in Politics37:16 The Need for Genuine Conversations46:26 The Impact of Political Identity on Society50:25 Hope for Civil Society and Positive InteractionsAdditional Resources This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Expanding Representation: A Conversation with Jeff MayhughJoin hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall in this episode of 'We Made This Political' as they engage in a dynamic discussion with Jeff Mayhugh, author of the Politics and Parenting Substack. Jeff, a political theorist, poet, and small business owner, shares his thoughts on the need to expand the House of Representatives to better serve the American populace. Drawing from his personal journey, Jeff elaborates on the current challenges in political representation, his advocacy through the No Cap Fund, and the parallels between political leadership and parenting. The episode delves into the intricacies of representation, the unintended consequences of policy, and the importance of facilitating a government that truly listens and acts for its people.00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds00:54 Introducing the Special Guest: Jeff01:57 Jeff's Career Path and the No Cap Fund07:18 The Concept of Representation10:36 Challenges in Modern Representation25:00 Historical Context and Modern Implications34:35 The Importance of Diverse Voices in Governance35:34 Historical Anecdotes and Representation37:43 Challenges in Healthcare Representation39:52 The Complexity of Modern Governance41:08 The Impact of Technology on Society52:06 The Role of Parenting in Shaping Governance01:00:38 Optimism for Expanding Representation01:02:02 Conclusion and Call to ActionResources The New Buzzword in America: Representation, by Jeff Mayhugh, The Vital Center, September 4, 2025Do the Math: America’s Representation Ratio is All Wrong, by Jeff Mayhugh, The Hill, August 27, 2025 This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this live episode of 'We Made This Political', hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by special guest Kristi Kendall, president of Kristi Kendall and Company. Kendall brings over 25 years of experience in journalism and media to the conversation, focusing on the role of media in exacerbating or challenging societal polarization. They discuss Kendall's diverse career, including her work with ABC's 2020 and her executive production role with John Stossel at Fox News and Fox Business. The discussion covers the importance of storytelling, the moral responsibilities of journalists, and Kendall's philosophy of creating hopeful content. Highlighted projects include the acclaimed documentary 'Unite Us', which aims to bridge political divides, and the innovative 'Raft for America' initiative, which fosters civil discourse through whitewater rafting experiences. The episode closes with an optimistic note on the potential of the younger generation to navigate and improve societal complexities.00:00 Welcome to the Live Episode00:34 Introducing Kristi Kendall02:02 Kristi's Journey into Media05:28 The Role of a Producer07:14 Impact of Storytelling in Media11:35 Media's Influence on Parenting15:48 Risk Perception and Media Responsibility21:49 Encouraging Civil Discourse29:32 The Skillset for Effective Interaction29:57 False Consensus and Airport Behavior30:28 Cultivating Curiosity in Parenting31:41 Children's Interests and Storytelling32:22 Civil Discourse and Media Perception34:01 Introducing the Movie 'Undivided Us'35:30 The Impact of Fear and Social Isolation38:02 Friendships Across Divides39:40 Rafting for Depolarization52:24 The Power of Perspective Swapping54:40 Optimism About the Next Generation This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Free Speech Battles and Triumphs: A Conversation with Nico Perrino from FIREJoin us as we chat with Nico Perrino, Executive Vice President of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). We dive into Nico's journey into free speech advocacy, his work at FIRE, and the organization's evolution. Nico shares thought-provoking insights into the importance of free speech on college campuses, the challenges posed by cancel culture, and how FIRE maintains its nonpartisan stance. We also discuss how free speech principles intersect with parenting and the significance of teaching young people to navigate pluralistic societies. Plus, Nico offers an optimistic look at the future, drawing lessons from historical battles for free expression.00:00 Introduction and Guest Bio01:23 Nico's Journey into Free Speech Advocacy02:57 Fire's Mission and Evolution04:24 The Importance of Free Speech in Democracy07:35 Challenges and Hypocrisy in Free Speech17:09 The Role of Universities in Promoting Free Speech31:43 Ira Glasser's Brooklyn Upbringing32:45 Helicopter Parenting and Moral Dependency34:22 Parenting and Free Speech36:22 Contextual Speech and Social Awareness38:35 Tribalism in Politics and Society41:05 Nonpartisan Movements and Political Discourse46:21 Challenges of Free Speech Advocacy51:10 Navigating Cancel Culture54:55 Curiosity and Understanding in Difficult Conversations59:02 Historical Perspective on Free Expression01:00:00 Conclusion and Optimism for the Future This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Daniel Yudkin, the founding director of the Beacon Project under More in Common. The conversation delves into the project's mission to combat political polarization and create a more cohesive society by exploring moral psychology and the political landscape. Daniel discusses the Hidden Tribes study, the concept of the 'Exhausted Majority,' and the importance of morally directed agency. The discussion also covers the impact of the pandemic on social interactions, the role of community service, and the importance of creating opportunities for collective effervescence. Tune in for insights into how fostering a culture of agency and community can shape a better future.00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds00:49 Guest Introduction: Daniel and the Beacon Project02:41 Understanding Political Polarization06:08 The Exhausted Majority and Its Potential11:45 The Role of Agency and Responsibility24:22 Community Engagement and Collective Effervescence35:05 The Importance of Bottom-Up Cultural Change36:51 Creating Spaces for Community Engagement40:24 Impact of the Pandemic on Social Habits43:20 The Role of Friction in a Meaningful Life51:22 Parenting and Agency in Children57:24 The Beacon Project and Civic Responsibility01:01:47 Optimism Amidst ChaosAdditional ResourcesDaniel and the Beacon Project on SubstackMore in CommonThe Beacon ProjectThe great article on political moderates by Dr. Anthony Fowler, et. al. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Navigating Academia: Challenges, Equity, and ResilienceIn this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall welcome back Dr. Kristen Kroll, Professor of Developmental Biology at Washington University, St. Louis, to discuss the multifaceted challenges faced by women in academia—especially in the STEM fields. They delve into the impacts of political decisions on scientific research and healthcare, highlighting issues of equity, access, and the systemic barriers that persist. Despite the current political climate and budget cuts, the conversation remains hopeful, emphasizing the importance of humanizing academia, supporting work-life balance, and fostering a nurturing, inclusive environment for all scholars.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:25 Recap of Previous Discussion02:06 Current Challenges in Academia and STEM06:24 Impact of Political Decisions on Healthcare10:43 Women's Reproductive Rights and Healthcare22:56 Gender Issues in Academia34:30 Balancing Parenthood and Academia35:51 Navigating Tenure and Family Life37:24 Challenges of Maternity Leave in Academia39:40 Supportive Environments and Human Connections41:56 Structural Changes for a Humane Academia47:44 The Importance of Work-Life Balance01:00:14 Hope for the Future of Academia01:04:25 Podcast Outro and Call to ActionAdditional ResourcesKristen’s Substack is Democracy, Social Justice, Education, and the Common Good.You can find her research and academic work on the Washington University website.Kristen discusses The Exceptions, a book about female scientists at MIT in the 1960s and the institutional sexism they faced. Read more about this book by author and journalist Kate Zernike here. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall discuss the challenges of balancing compliance and free thinking in parenting, particularly in the context of modern education and political climate. They share personal anecdotes about teaching kids autonomy while also fitting into societal norms, navigating school systems, and understanding community values. They explore the impact of structured versus unstructured environments on child development and the socio-economic factors influencing parental anxiety about safety. They also touch on the importance of teaching kids to navigate various systems and settings, the consequences of over-protection, and how to foster agency in children. The conversation includes insights into the intersection of politics, cultural norms, and education, and offers practical back-to-school tips. The episode concludes with a look at the importance of anti-fragility and navigating safe spaces.00:00 Balancing Compliance and Free Thinking in Parenting00:43 Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts01:32 Back to School: Challenges and Tips03:17 Parenting Styles and School Conflicts05:57 Navigating Systems and Norms07:07 Ambivalence Towards School Systems08:30 The Role of Bureaucracy in Education11:01 Teaching Kids to Navigate Different Contexts17:26 The Decline of Unstructured Play18:24 Safety Perceptions and Children's Independence23:15 Understanding Random Crime and Statistical Reasoning24:20 The Downside of Overprotecting Children24:49 The Importance of Parental Failures26:22 Cognitive Biases and Negativity Bias in Parenting27:42 Socioeconomic Factors in Parenting Anxiety31:12 The Role of Responsibility in Reducing Anxiety34:01 Challenges in Youth Employment and Volunteering34:45 Navigating Differences and Conflict Resolution41:10 The Concept of Anti-Fragility in Parenting43:53 Optimism and Reflections on ParentingAdditional ResourcesJonathan Haidt’s Anxious Generation (on anti-fragility in parenting) Lenore Skenazy’s Let Grow (on free-rage kids) Rob Henderson’s work on luxury beliefs (like being anxious about pregnancy and parenting) Musa al-Gharbi’s We Have Never Been Woke (on asking hard questions about the motivations and impact of social justice efforts) D.S. Winnicott’s work on the Good Enough Mother (Parent) (on how being the perfect parent crowds out opportunities for kids to develop competence and agency) [Also, sincere apologies from Lura — she attributed this idea to Heinz Kohut, who is renowned for self psychology and not the Good Enough Mother.] This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall engage in an enlightening conversation with Kristen Kroll, a developmental biologist at the University of Washington in St. Louis. The discussion covers a wide range of topics, including the complexities and challenges of conducting cutting-edge scientific research, the evolving landscape of academia, the impact of recent political changes on scientific funding and integrity, and the importance of diversity and equity in STEM fields. Kristen also shares her personal journey and passion for bridging the gap between science and public understanding. Tune in for a riveting exploration of how politics and science intersect in today's world.00:00 Introduction and Overview00:48 Meet the Hosts and Guest01:43 Kristen Kroll's Academic Journey02:40 Advancements in Developmental Neurobiology04:19 Challenges in Research Funding06:47 The Impact of Federal Funding Cuts07:53 Public Perception and Misinformation10:44 The Role of Advocacy in Science12:59 The Complexity of Modern Science16:54 The Threat to Academic Integrity20:21 The Future of Scientific Research35:41 The Complexity of Modern Research36:41 Challenges in Healthcare Policy37:28 The Issue of Paywalls in Scientific Publishing37:58 The Financial Burden of Publishing40:27 The Role of NIH Public Access Policy42:23 Diversity and Access in STEM43:28 The Future of Academia and Career Advice45:35 The Impact of Politics on Science48:19 The Importance of Representation in Science48:57 Kristen's Advocacy and Outreach Efforts51:29 Closing Remarks and Future Discussions01:09:56 Dismantling Expertise in American Institutions01:11:53 Political Motivations Behind Budget Cuts01:13:13 The Rise of Techno-Fascism01:15:15 Challenges in Communicating Science01:19:01 Complexity in Modern Science and Academia01:28:33 The Predatory Nature of Scientific Publishing01:33:28 Advice for Women and Marginalized Groups in STEM01:39:16 Concluding Thoughts and Future DirectionsAdditional ResourcesKristen’s Substack is Democracy, Social Justice, Education, and the Common GoodYou can find her research and academic work on the Washington University website. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode of 'We Made This Political,' hosts Lura Forcum, President of the Independent Center, and Lauren Hall, author of the Substack the Radical Moderate’s Guide to Life, are joined by Christina Dent, founder of 'End It For Good.' The discussion dives into moving from a criminal justice mindset to a health-centered approach in dealing with drug addiction. Christina shares her personal journey, starting as a foster mom, and how it reshaped her views on substance use. Highlighting the complexities of addiction, the conversation also explores Christina's work in creating open, non-coercive spaces for dialogue around drug policy. Through storytelling, empathy, and dialogue, the episode underscores the importance of approaching drug addiction with compassion and pragmatism.Additional ResourcesCheck out Christina’s book Curious to read her story in more detail.Connect with End it for Good to find out more about changing the way we think about drug addiction.Show Notes00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Backgrounds00:57 Introducing the Guest: Christina Dent01:52 Christina's Journey and Perspective on Addiction04:54 The Complexity of Addiction and Health-Centered Approaches08:57 Community Engagement and Book Discussions15:33 Advocacy and Creating Safe Spaces for Dialogue24:51 Challenges and Rewards of Vulnerable Advocacy32:41 The Importance of Bipartisan Solutions34:14 Finding Common Ground to Save Lives34:29 Innovative Approaches to Addiction Treatment35:19 The Power of Agency and Choice36:35 Family Support and Non-Coercive Methods38:39 The Effectiveness of Harm Reduction Programs39:11 Understanding the Addict's Perspective41:11 Empathy and Personal Stories in Advocacy41:49 Challenging Ideological Positions47:30 The Role of Emotions in Policy Discussions50:11 Investment Aversion and Personal Connection57:45 The Complexity of Addiction and Parenting01:02:03 Hope and Community Action01:07:56 Conclusion and Resources This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Exploring Polarization and Moderation with Dan ValloneIn this episode, Lura Forcum and Lauren Hall are joined by Dan Vallone, a veteran and expert in depolarization work, who shares his experiences and insights on bridging divides, based on his work with More In Common and his military background. The conversation also touches on the challenges and rewards of parenting, the significance of genuine local engagement, and the hope for a more unified societal future.00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks01:26 Guest Introduction: Dan Vallone02:43 Dan Vallone's Journey to Depolarization Work03:40 The Role of Veterans in Depolarization04:24 Challenges and Successes in Local Community Work10:14 Military Service and Its Impact on Bridge Building16:29 The Disconnect Between Military and Civilian Life25:20 The Importance of Political Pluralism34:58 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives in Politics36:21 The Exhausted Majority: Who Are They?39:21 Challenges Faced by the Exhausted Majority41:00 The Role of Independents in Politics44:19 Parenting Lessons from the Military50:03 Embracing Hardships for Personal Growth55:02 Reflections on American Patriotism and History01:00:47 Closing Thoughts and Optimism for the FutureFurther reading and resources: Find Dan at danvallone.com This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

Episode Title: We Made This Political – Parenting, Policy, and the French-American ExperienceHosts: Lura Forcum & Lauren HallGuest: Veronique de Rugy, Senior Research Fellow, Economist, and French-American parentAbout Our Guest:Veronique de Rugy is a Senior Research Fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, where she also holds a chair in economics. Originally from France, she earned her PhD in economics there before moving to the United States to complete her dissertation at George Mason. Veronique is a leading expert on budgetary and tax issues, government spending, and cronyism, and has worked at prominent policy organizations including the Cato Institute and the American Enterprise Institute. She is a prolific writer and commentator, known for her clear, data-driven analysis and her advocacy for free markets and limited government. In addition to her policy work, Veronique brings a unique perspective as a French-American parent raising two daughters in the US.Episode Summary:In this episode, Lura and Lauren are joined by Veronique de Rugy for a candid conversation about parenting, policy, and the cultural contrasts between French and American approaches to raising children. Veronique shares her journey from France to the US, her experiences as an economist and policy expert, and the challenges and surprises of raising two daughters in America.Timestamps & Highlights:* 00:00 – Introduction: Meet the hosts and today’s guest, Veronique de Rugy* 01:00 – Veronique’s background: From France to the US, economics, and policy work* 03:15 – Raising children in America: French heritage, language, and identity* 05:30 – French vs. American parenting: Sleep training, boundaries, and guilt* 13:00 – Navigating cultural expectations and finding a parenting style that works for everyone* 16:00 – The role of guilt, enrichment, and “doing it all” in modern parenting* 22:00 – Nature vs. nurture, resilience, and the limits of parental control* 29:00 – Implicit vs. explicit rules in families and society* 34:00 – How systems (education, healthcare) shape family life and individual choices* 44:00 – COVID-19, education, and the tension between what’s best for kids vs. the system* 54:00 – The realities of working parents, guilt, and making it all work* 1:05:00 – Adulthood, parenting through transitions, and the lifelong role of parents* 1:09:00 – The joys and challenges of parenting, declining fertility, and what we wish we could communicate to future parents* 1:13:00 – Final thoughts: Parenting as a transformative, humbling, and deeply meaningful experienceMentioned in this episode:* Brian Kaplan’s book Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids* Catherine Pakaluk’s book Hannah’s Children* The impact of COVID-19 on education and family lifeJoin us!Find something interesting? Leave us a comment and share the podcast with friends!And if you haven’t already, subscribe for more conversations about flourishing, family, and the politics of everyday life. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this special July 4th episode, we explore what patriotism looks like in 2025 and what we are truly celebrating on Independence Day. Lura and Lauren emphasize the importance of community, civic engagement, and the unique diversity of American life. They share personal stories and reflections on local events, discussing how shared spaces and sustained interactions with diverse groups can reduce prejudice and foster unity. The conversation also touches on the challenges of balancing personal responsibilities and community involvement, the historical context of American values, and the evolving role of the presidency.Recommendations for celebrating include listening to Aaron Copland's music and reading Frederick Douglass's speech, 'What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?'00:00 Introduction and Guiding Questions00:11 Defining Patriotism in 202500:42 Local Celebrations and Community Spirit04:39 The Importance of Intergroup Contact08:39 Challenges of Modern Socialization10:26 Hosting Community Events15:27 Historical Context and Moral Ambiguity22:14 Parenting and Societal Expectations30:11 Local vs. National Politics36:58 Exploring Race Relations and Social Behavior37:04 Acts of Kindness in Airports38:00 Reflecting on American Values and Utopianism39:17 Polarization and Perception of America41:28 Immigrants' Perspective on America46:14 The Role and Power of the President55:40 The Importance of Local Communities57:18 Final Thoughts and Recommendations This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

In this episode, we're joined by Ben Klutsey of the Mercatus Center to discuss pluralism, politics, and parenting. Ben shares his background and personal experiences that fueled his passion for pluralism, including his childhood experiences in Germany contrasted against his warm welcome in Appleton, Wisconsin. He delves into his academic and professional journey exploring pluralism, informed by luminaries like John Izu and through extensive conversations with scholars and public intellectuals. The conversation also touches on how pluralism can be practiced through innovative approaches like the Pluralist Lab and the importance of fostering virtues and curiosity in children. Ben's hopeful outlook on America's resilient spirit and the potential for fostering a more inclusive and understanding society wraps up our discussion.00:00 Introduction and Guest Background01:46 Early Experiences with Pluralism06:10 Academic and Professional Journey07:56 The Pluralism Summit and Practical Applications12:09 Fostering Curiosity and Engagement14:56 The Pluralist Lab Explained17:26 Challenges in Political Dialogue27:17 The Role of Competition and Cooperation28:14 Understanding Political and Affective Polarization28:48 Breaking Down Meta Perceptions30:02 The Complexity of Human Interactions32:21 Parenting and Virtues33:52 Balancing Virtues in Society36:20 The Importance of Pluralism40:39 Feedback and Perspective Taking49:06 Optimism and Hope for the Future This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com

William Glass, Millennial Debt FoundationWilliam Glass is communications director of the Millennial Debt Foundation, based in Chattanooga, TN. He heads up the In the Black license plate program and hosts the podcast Gross Domestic Problem, among other activities.He has nearly a decade of experience building brands in e-commerce spaces and a few political campaigns under his belt.Show Notes: Navigating the National Debt with William GlassIn this episode, we're joined by William Glass, Communications Director at the Millennial Debt Foundation. Our discussion dives deep into the complexities of the national debt, exploring its implications and connections to broader societal issues like political polarization and economic instability. Glass explains the significant role entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid play in driving national debt. He also discusses the pressing need for entitlement reform and the potential for modernization and innovation to address these fiscal challenges. The conversation highlights the importance of balancing fiscal responsibility with ensuring support for vulnerable populations, painting a hopeful picture of how innovative approaches and robust economic strategies could pave the way for a more stable future.00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction03:17 Discussing the National Debt08:07 Entitlement Programs and National Debt14:08 Millennials and Fiscal Policy21:09 Military Spending and Fiscal Challenges22:33 Budget Politics and Military Spending23:30 Entitlement Programs vs. Military Spending24:11 Government Efficiency and Military Procurement24:33 The F-35 Program and Military Spending Critique25:39 The Challenge of Addressing the National Debt30:45 The Complexity of Healthcare Costs36:58 The Role of Innovation in Solving Economic Issues41:53 The Potential of Corporate Disruption in Healthcare44:14 Concluding Thoughts and ResourcesFurther ReadingAnother non-partisan source on the deficit and budget is Romina Boccia of CATO. She also writes the Debt Dispatch on Substack. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wemadethispolitical.substack.com