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PODCAST · education

The Science of Dialogue

Hi, I'm Rod J. Naquin and this is the Science of Dialogue. As an active classroom teacher, I explore how strategic dialogue transforms classroom practice and educational leadership through the messy realities of real schools, real students, and the persistent problems that define our work. Follow @rodjnaquin and rodjnaquin.substack.com.

  1. 55

    Why the humanities matter in education

    The humanities aren't extra—they teach the speaking-to-writing skills that make all learning work. Ramus connected subjects through practice, while Ong showed students need to talk before they can write.

  2. 54

    Why talk is upstream of text

    Every word we speak is shaped by who we're talking to and what response we expect. Schools should focus more on creating real conversations between everyone.

  3. 53

    Why epistemology matters in education

    Teachers and researchers clash over what counts as "real knowledge." Bridging this epistemic gap is key to making school reform actually work.

  4. 52

    Why I'm giving students the claims

    I explicitly teach literary claims by giving students ready-made examples to prove and evaluate. This approach builds their analytical skills through clear models and guided practice instead of expecting them to figure it out alone.

  5. 51

    How reading aloud is helping my students

    I'm using daily fluency routines—model read-alouds, audio support, and partner practice—to help high school students access complex texts like The Great Gatsby and Macbeth. The practice is narrowing equity gaps and making students' thematic thinking clearer in their writing.

  6. 50

    Learning and teaching through problems

    Returning to teaching after time away, I learned that folk wisdom and accepting persistent problems matter more than reform ideals. Drawing on Mary Kennedy's research and paradox theory. I explore how teachers navigate the messy realities that reformers ignore.

  7. 49

    What I’ve gotten wrong this semester

    I came back to teaching with big ideas about curriculum and ⁠got a lot wrong. The semester taught me that none of it matters without management, routines, and the willingness to say no.

  8. 48

    Clearing the fog about AI in education

    Most AI debates in education go in circles because we confuse different products, forget the human is always in charge, and treat solvable design problems as inevitable threats. Clearing up these three misconceptions changes everything.

  9. 47

    What educators should know about talking with one another

    Educators rarely examine how they talk with one another, yet conversation quality directly determines student learning and school improvement. Understanding dialogue science—how brains sync, thinking forms through internalized conversation, and words create reality—transforms professional talk from routine to transformational.

  10. 46

    What teachers need to know about framing

    Framing happens automatically in all teacher collaboration, shaping what problems we see and what solutions seem possible. Becoming aware of framing transforms our ability to lead and learn together.

  11. 45

    Why teaching requires managing paradox

    Teaching well means managing constant tensions, not solving them. The goal is developing better judgment about when to lean which direction, not finding the one right answer.

  12. 44

    Why teachers need "withitness"

    Withitness is a teacher's ability to be aware of everything happening in the classroom at once. It's what makes students think their teacher has eyes in the back of their head.

  13. 43

    Teacher talk without an agenda

    Formal teacher collaboration structures prevent genuine dialogue through predetermined protocols and forced closure, while actual learning happens in spontaneous hallway conversations that allow messy thinking.

  14. 42

    Why schools feel like a thousand different experiences

    Schools struggle because their support systems send contradictory messages that fragment student and teacher experiences. Coherence requires aligning everything around fewer priorities sustained over years.

  15. 41

    Which problems get attention?

    Returning to teaching reveals how Kennedy's five challenges—presenting curriculum, engaging students, understanding their thinking, managing behavior, and meeting needs—compete in ways theory can't address.

  16. 40

    Why problems beat solutions

    Teacher education should focus on investigating teaching dilemmas rather than implementing prescribed solutions, since real teaching involves navigating multiple competing demands simultaneously.

  17. 39

    Hidden barriers to teacher collaboration

    Why can't teachers talk openly about classroom reality? Research shows we spend most collaborative time protecting professional image rather than addressing instruction. Real improvement requires balancing honest critique with emotional safety.

  18. 38

    Everything is downstream of management

    Everything meaningful in education flows downstream from three fundamentals: strategic management of classroom space, consistent routines for starting class, and accurate understanding of students' actual prerequisite knowledge.

  19. 37

    Using LLMs in writing instruction

    AI can change writing instruction by using language models to generate content-embedded, skills-focused materials that free teachers from mechanical tasks and allow more time for meaningful student interaction.

  20. 36

    Teach writing rather than just assign it

    Writing instruction should focus on teaching authentic skills rather than assigning formulaic tasks that students won't use in real-world communication.

  21. 35

    Sentences for reading and writing

    Teachers focus too much on broad writing skills while neglecting sentence-level instruction. Students need explicit teaching of sentence construction to express complex ideas effectively in writing.

  22. 34

    Why I'm talking with my students a lot more

    Research from Cabell & Zucker, Gottman, and Kuhn et al. shows that meaningful student conversations—not just delivering content—are the true engine of learning, as extended dialogue builds language skills, comprehension, and emotional connection.

  23. 33

    Back to the classroom

    Drawing from Rosenshine's instructional principles, Shanahan's text-centered approach, and Socratic questioning techniques, I'm returning to classroom teaching with a research-grounded plan to engage students through daily conferences, careful text analysis, and systematic questioning that keeps texts rather than activities at the center of instruction.

  24. 32

    Icebreakers don't suck

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue reveal how well-designed conversational icebreakers boost adult learning outcomes by creating psychological safety and structured dialogue pathways (Brooks, 2025; Carmeli et al., 2009; Sasan et al., 2023; Karge et al., 2011).

  25. 31

    Constructs and their use

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue explore how educational constructs function as mental tools for understanding complex, unobservable aspects of learning. He emphasizes the need for careful measurement and validation when using these abstract concepts in educational practice (Biletzki & Matar, 2021; Brown, 2000; Uher, 2022).

  26. 30

    Talk as learning

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue examine how structured dialogue reshapes learning. Drawing from classical dialogue theory (Nikulin, 2006) and contemporary classroom research (Brooks, 2025), he shows that intentional conversation does more than engage - it transforms how students think and learn.

  27. 29

    Text is not dialogue

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue reveals text dominates classrooms, while humans naturally learn through mimesis and dialogue (Donald, 2006; Nikulin, 2006, 2010).

  28. 28

    A deep dive on interactive alignment

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue explores how natural conversation beats formal speech in learning through 'interactive alignment' - where speakers unconsciously sync mental models (Garrod & Pickering 2004, Branigan et al. 2000, Garrod & Anderson 1987).

  29. 27

    Disambiguating dialogue

    This week, Rod J. Naquin explores the Science of Dialogue, revealing how educational leaders can transform communication by distinguishing between dialogue types (Angel), understanding personal interactions (Miller), and designing purposeful communication strategies (Scott).

  30. 26

    Vibe writing is what we should all be doing

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue reveals how AI transforms writing education, proposing "vibe writing" - teaching students to direct AI content rather than just compose. The shift mirrors workplace trends (Bowen 2014, Chen 2025, Farrell et al. 2025, Goldsmith 2011, Krishnan 2025, Willison 2025).

  31. 25

    What does anyone mean by curriculum?

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue explores how curriculum extends far beyond lesson plans, shaping the hidden and lived experiences of education (Gobby, 2021; Egan, 2003; Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2023).

  32. 24

    Untimely questions in educational leadership

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue explores how Socratic dialogue can transform school leadership through strategic questioning and reflective practice (Aliaj 2021, Callard 2025, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy 2022).

  33. 23

    The AI discourse is so wrong

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue explore the polarized views of AI in education, arguing for practical solutions over abstract debates. (Bearman et al. 2023, Kim et al. 2024, Newton 2024)

  34. 22

    From belief to practice

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and the Science of Dialogue explore how educational leaders navigate complex conversations, testing beliefs and avoiding common argumentative pitfalls while fostering productive dialogue in schools (Hansen, 2015; Novaes, 2021; Peirce, 1877).

  35. 21

    Leading through paradox

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and The Science of Dialogue explores how apophatic theory and paradox management can transform modern leadership, suggesting that breakthroughs come not from solving problems, but from transcending how we think about them (Smith & Tushman, 2005).

  36. 20

    What to know about Louisiana's NAEP results

    This week, Rod J. Naquin andThe Science of Dialogue examines how Louisiana's Content Leaders program and curriculum reforms have boosted student achievement, contributing to the state's notable gains in recent NAEP reading scores.

  37. 19

    Many voices make the school

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and The Science of Dialogue explore how effective school leadership arises from the interplay of diverse voices. Drawing on recent research on leadership dialectics, he demonstrates why creating space for multiple perspectives is crucial for meaningful educational change. (Bakhtin, 1981; Cooren & Sandler, 2014; Fairhurst & Collinson, 2023; Zola, 2016)

  38. 18

    Why can't we all just agree?

    This week, Rod J. Naquin in The Science of Dialogue looks at why school discussions often go nowhere. The problem? People are using different types of argument without realizing it, while also having very different ideas about what counts as knowledge and evidence (Aristotle, trans. 2007; Neta, 2024; Rapp, 2024).

  39. 17

    Learning Styles won't die

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and The Science of Dialogue examines why learning styles theory persists in education despite overwhelming evidence against it, revealing how "essentially contested concepts" in education resist simple debunking and reflect deeper complexities in how we understand learning differences (Willingham et al., 2015; Collier et al., 2006; Shemshack & Spector, 2020).

  40. 16

    Moving beyond dichotomous discourse

    This week, Rod J. Naquin and The Science of Dialogue explores how educational leaders can break free from "either/or" thinking, suggesting that embracing paradox leads to better solutions in schools (Lefstein et al., 2017; Smith & Lewis, 2011; Schad et al., 2017).

  41. 15

    5: Bakhtin's dialogism

    In this episode of The Science of Dialogue, host Rod J. Naquin explores Mikhail Bakhtin's theory of dialogism, examining how authentic dialogue is essential to human existence and its powerful implications for transforming education.

  42. 14

    4: Teacher Collaborative Discourse

    In this episode of 'The Science of Dialogue,' host Rod J Naquin unpacks a landmark 2020 study that reveals what makes teacher conversations truly impactful for professional growth. Drawing from an analysis of 64 research papers, he explores proven dialogue techniques and common pitfalls in teacher collaboration, offering practical insights for educators and school leaders.

  43. 13

    3: Toward Dialogic Computing

    In this episode, host Rod J. Naquin examines Vilém Flusser's media philosophy on technical images, Roland Barthes' radical rethinking of authorship and the reader's role in "The Death of the Author," and the 2024 study "Backwards Planning with Generative AI" on teachers using AI for instructional planning. These perspectives illuminate the emerging dynamics of dialogic computing between humans and AI systems.

  44. 12

    2: Human-computer Interaction

    In this episode, host Rod J. Naquin examines three influential works that have shaped our understanding of human-computer interaction. We explore Licklider's vision of "Man-Computer Symbiosis," Hoey's theory of "Lexical Priming," and Pickering and Garrod's "Interactive Alignment" model. These foundational ideas illuminate the complex dynamics between humans, language, and technology at the core of dialogic computing.

  45. 11

    1: Foundations of Dialogic Computing

    In this season premiere of The Science of Dialogue, we explore the fascinating world of dialogic computing. Host Rod J. Naquin examines three influential ideas: Mikhail Bakhtin's theory of dialogue, Alan Turing's work on machine intelligence, and John Searle's Chinese Room thought experiment. These perspectives illuminate the complex landscape of human-computer interaction, setting the stage for our season-long investigation into how dialogue shapes and is shaped by advances in artificial intelligence and computer science.

  46. 10

    9: What is the science of dialogue?

    In the season finale of The Science of Dialogue, host Rod J. Naquin tackles a fundamental question: Is there truly a science of dialogue, and if so, what does it entail? To unravel this, Rod examines three influential frameworks - Bakhtin's dialogism, Austin's speech act theory, and the interactive alignment model. These diverse perspectives, from language as inherently social to dialogue as collaborative performance, shed light on the rich complexity involved in developing a rigorous scientific understanding of this quintessentially human activity. As the season comes to a close, Rod aims to provide invaluable insights into the prospects for a comprehensive "science of dialogue."

  47. 9

    8: How does uncertainty intersect with dialogue?

    In this episode of The Science of Dialogue, host Rod J. Naquin explores a fundamental question: How does dialogue help us navigate uncertainty and generate knowledge? To unravel this, Rod examines three influential perspectives - epistemology's approach to knowledge amidst doubt, Kuhn's theory of scientific revolutions, and Wittgenstein's insights on certainty. These diverse viewpoints, from philosophical inquiry to paradigm shifts in science, shed light on the complex role of dialogue in expanding our understanding. As we delve into these ideas, Rod aims to provide valuable insights into how we use communication to grapple with the unknown and advance our collective knowledge.

  48. 8

    7: What does mysticism say about dialogue?

    In this episode of The Science of Dialogue, host Rod J. Naquin explores what mystical traditions have to say about the nature and purpose of dialogue. We'll examine the teachings of the Sufi poet Rumi, who integrated mystical intuition with reasoned discourse. We'll discuss the Hindu philosopher Bhartrihari's view of dialogue as unveiling the oneness connecting consciousness, language and reality. And we'll revisit Plato's critique of writing in Phaedrus, which implies interactive verbal dialogue cultivates wisdom more profoundly than passive texts. Join us as we find that while mystics prioritize inner spiritual experience, many still see philosophical exchange as complementary for apprehending truths.

  49. 7

    6: Does dialogue require an open ending?

    In this episode of The Science of Dialogue, host Rod J. Naquin examines whether dialogue requires an open ending. We'll discuss discursive leadership's embrace of open-ended conversation without predetermined outcomes. We'll cover Wendy Smith's paradox mindset research, showing continuous engagement with tensions rather than resolving them. We'll revisit Mikhail Bakhtin's concept of dialogue as an evolving, "unfinalizable" interplay of voices. Join us as we explore if resolving dialogue complements or conflicts with its participatory nature.

  50. 6

    5: What psychological processes underpin dialogue?

    In this episode of The Science of Dialogue, host Rod J. Naquin explores how seminal research reveals the social origins of thinking and communicating. We examine Lev Vygotsky's theory that reasoning skills develop first socially, then individually. We discuss Jerome Bruner's work showing how caregiver-child interaction fosters communication. We also explore Mikhail Bakhtin's view of thinking as socially-influenced inner dialogue. Together, these perspectives illuminate how key cognitive and linguistic processes emerge through interpersonal dialogue.

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ABOUT THIS SHOW

Hi, I'm Rod J. Naquin and this is the Science of Dialogue. As an active classroom teacher, I explore how strategic dialogue transforms classroom practice and educational leadership through the messy realities of real schools, real students, and the persistent problems that define our work. Follow @rodjnaquin and rodjnaquin.substack.com.

HOSTED BY

Rod J. Naquin

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Frequently Asked Questions

How many episodes does The Science of Dialogue have?

The Science of Dialogue currently has 50 episodes available on PodParley. New episodes are automatically indexed when they're published to the podcast feed.

What is The Science of Dialogue about?

Hi, I'm Rod J. Naquin and this is the Science of Dialogue. As an active classroom teacher, I explore how strategic dialogue transforms classroom practice and educational leadership through the messy realities of real schools, real students, and the persistent problems that define our work. Follow...

How often does The Science of Dialogue release new episodes?

The Science of Dialogue has 50 episodes. Check the episode list to see recent publication dates and frequency.

Where can I listen to The Science of Dialogue?

You can listen to The Science of Dialogue on PodParley by clicking any episode. We provide an embedded audio player for direct listening, and you can also subscribe via your preferred podcast app using the RSS feed.

Who hosts The Science of Dialogue?

The Science of Dialogue is created and hosted by Rod J. Naquin.
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