Been There Got Out Podcast

"One parent becomes the good parent, and one parent becomes the bad parent." That's how Shawna Leatherman describes the moment parental alienation actually begins, and it's almost never in a courtroom. It starts small: a "no more juice" overruled at bedtime, a rule at one house that quietly doesn't apply at the other. Thirteen years into her own experience with parental alienation, Shawna, who writes and speaks as "The Unseen Parent," walks through exactly how those tiny, seemingly insignificant moments compound into a full alienation pattern, and why almost nobody sees it happening until it's too late.In this conversation, Shawna and Lisa break down the mechanics of undermining, exclusive alliance, and what psychologist Dr. Amy Baker calls "poisonous messages" - the subtle signals that tell a child their other parent is unsafe, unloving, or unavailable. You'll hear how something as small as a sigh before answering the phone, or asking "are you okay?" a little too often, can quietly convince a child that one home isn't safe. This is a practical, pattern-recognition-focused conversation for any co-parent who suspects something is happening but can't quite name it yet.  WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ How undermining ("no, it's okay, you can have it") lays the groundwork for exclusive alliance ✅ The difference between the "enforcer" parent and the "rescuer" parent — and why it matters ✅ What it means to "minimize the other parent's authority," and how kids absorb it ✅ The "Three U's" framework: how poisonous messages paint a parent as unsafe, unloving, or unavailable ✅ Why the "are you okay?" phone call is one of the most common (and least recognized) forms of alienation ✅ The "eye shot" rule — why body language matters even when your child can't hear you ✅ Why most parents doing these things aren't fully aware of the damage they're causing ✅ How to start recognizing these patterns in your own co-parenting relationship before they compound  ABOUT SHAWNA LEATHERMAN: Shawna Leatherman is a mother, writer, and advocate who has lived through parental alienation for almost 13 years. She created "The Unseen Parent" as a resource and community for parents who feel isolated, unheard, and judged for an experience most people don't understand. She is the author of "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts — Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," which draws on her own journal-writing as a form of therapy and offers a faith-rooted perspective on truth, forgiveness, and resilience. Shawna's work focuses on making alienation dynamics visible — not as a men-versus-women issue, but as a behavioral pattern that can happen to any parent, and one she believes needs to be discussed openly rather than in silence.  🔗 CONNECT WITH SHAWNA: Book: "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts - Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Kindle. Instagram, TikTok & YouTube: search "The Unseen Parent"

"A toxic environment is a toxic environment, whether the parents are together or they're separate." That's not a divorce coach talking. That's Dave Kopeny — a former probation officer, school counselor, and sheriff's department investigator who now works as a private investigator specializing in families whose teenagers are struggling with substance use. And what he told Lisa in this conversation is something every parent navigating a high-conflict divorce or difficult co-parenting situation needs to hear: research shows an amicable divorce is actually better for a child's mental health than staying in a toxic marriage. The problem is, most of the people in our community don't have an amicable divorce. They have a toxic divorce and a toxic co-parenting situation — and that, Dave explains, is one of the heaviest burdens a child can carry, precisely because they have no control over it.This episode goes far beyond drug facts and statistics. Dave draws a direct line between the conflict a child witnesses at home — whether inside a marriage or across two households — and their risk of turning to substances to cope with feelings they don't know how to name. He also speaks candidly to a dynamic so many BTGO parents live with every day: the co-parent who checks out entirely. Dave sees it often in his own work with families — usually a father who doesn't have day-to-day custody, is angry at his ex, and simply stops showing up. Dave's advice for the parent left holding it all is direct, practical, and free of judgment.What You'll Learn:✅ Why research shows an amicable divorce protects kids better than a toxic intact marriage✅ How ongoing co-parenting conflict becomes a burden kids have no ability to control ✅ What to do when only one parent is willing to engage with a struggling teen ✅ Why you can't have a productive conversation with your child while you're dysregulated yourself ✅ The specific behavioral changes Dave tells parents to document before confronting a teen ✅ Why a mother's intuition about her child is worth listening to — and what Dave tells fathers about it ✅ How to reframe a hard conversation as "you and your child against addiction," not you against your child ✅ Why today's marijuana is a different, far more potent substance than the drug earlier generations knew ✅ The "four eyes vs. two eyes" problem single parents face — and who to bring in when you can't partner with your ex ✅ How to open a non-shaming conversation with a teen you're worried about, in under two minutesAbout Dave Kopeny:Dave Kopeny brings a rare, full-circle perspective to the world of adolescent substance use. He grew up in a household shaped by his father's alcoholism, later lost a brother to long-term addiction and a sister-in-law to a heroin overdose — experiences that shaped both his empathy and his career. Dave spent decades working directly with high-risk youth, starting as a juvenile probation officer in California, then serving as a school counselor, returning to intensive probation work, and later investigating for a sheriff's department. Today, as a private investigator, he specializes in helping families whose children are struggling with substance use disorder find their way toward lasting sobriety. He is the author of a book on adolescent addiction and founded a free online community where parents can learn the facts about teen substance use without cost or obligation.

"Force demands fairness. Power prepares for reality. Force chases. Power disengages when engagement is useless." That's the framework Manalizing founder Garth Haslem uses to explain why so many marriages, divorces, and co-parenting relationships fall apart — and it's strikingly close to what we teach in our own Strategic Communication Course.In this raw, unscripted conversation, Lisa sits down with Garth to unpack the difference between force and power in relationships, why men are conditioned from childhood to stay silent about what's actually hurting them, and what happens when decades of suppressed emotion finally come out "in the wrong place, with the wrong people, at the wrong time." If you've ever wondered why your ex communicates the way they do, why the men in your life won't open up, or why your own attempts to "just talk it out" keep backfiring, this episode reframes the whole conversation.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:✅ The difference between force and power — and why force always backfires in high-conflict situations ✅ Why men are taught from childhood that vulnerability is dangerous, and what that costs them (and their families) ✅ The "trash compactor" pattern: how suppressed emotions eventually explode at the wrong time ✅ What "divorce brain" is, how to recognize it in yourself or your ex, and why it's a form of force ✅ How internalized criticism turns into self-hatred — and sometimes into abusive behavior ✅ Why some men become the "ATM Dad" and how that dynamic damages marriages from the inside ✅ A real, vulnerable account of parental alienation from a father's perspective ✅ The structure of a Manalizing meeting: the declaration, the "one word" check-in, being heard, and being seen ✅ Concrete examples of force vs. power language you can apply to your own co-parenting communication ✅ Why "happy wife, happy life" can quietly become a form of coercive control when taken too far ✅ How isolation compounds a crisis — and why having even one person who will listen changes everythingABOUT GARTH HASLEM: Garth Haslem is the founder of Manalizing, a national peer support community that meets twice monthly by Zoom to give men a structured, confidential space to be heard, seen, and known — often for the first time in their adult lives. Garth built Manalizing out of his own hard-won experience: two marriages, a divorce he navigated with no one to turn to, and a relationship with one of his three daughters that remains estranged today. He speaks openly about his own struggles with meaninglessness, force, and control, and has adapted Dr. David Hawkins' "Power vs. Force" framework into a practical, everyday tool for men navigating conflict, divorce, and fatherhood. Garth is not a therapist — he is something rarer in this space: a man willing to go first.

"I would wake up every single morning, there'd be a moment when I'd forget who I was, and then I would just be furious. And it wasn't even at my ex — it was at the system allowing this to go on and on and on." If that sounds familiar, this conversation is for you. Lisa opens this episode admitting that rage is one of the single most common emotions she hears about from people living with legal abuse and parental alienation. So she brought in Jen Gallagher, a limited license psychologist in Michigan with over 20 years as a therapist, who now specializes in helping women work through rage using a neurobiological, brain-based approach. This isn't a conversation about anger management. It's a conversation about why your rage might be the sanest possible response to years of injustice — and what to actually do with it so it doesn't run your life, or your health, from the inside. Jen explains the real difference between everyday anger and deep, cumulative rage, why rage is a normal, protective emotion your brain is designed to feel (not a character flaw), and why the physical toll of suppressing it for years can show up as chronic illness, "sideways" explosions, or relentless self-criticism. If you've ever asked "when is this going to stop hurting," this episode gives you a real answer. What You'll Learn: ✅ The actual difference between anger and rage, and why rage runs so much deeper ✅ Why rage is one of the brain's built-in protective systems, not a personality flaw ✅ How to tell the difference between rage (a feeling) and violence (a behavior) ✅ Why men and women are conditioned to express rage so differently ✅ Why there's no "timeline" for how long you're allowed to feel furious ✅ Why chronic legal abuse produces a completely sane, expected rage response ✅ The physical cost of suppressing rage for years, including chronic illness ✅ How trauma can disconnect you from rage you don't even know you're carrying ✅ The first step to reclaiming your rage: simply naming it out loud ✅ A simple body-awareness practice to interrupt a rage spiral in real time ✅ What to look for in a therapist if rage is the issue you need help with About Jen Gallagher: Jen Gallagher is a limited license psychologist (a Michigan-licensed therapist with a master's degree) with more than 20 years of clinical experience. Her practice takes a neurobiological, brain-based approach to emotional healing, and she primarily works with women in midlife who are learning to build a healthier relationship with their rage — turning it into a source of power and energy instead of shame. She describes rage as one of the most misunderstood emotions, and she's made it her mission to change that.

"One hundred percent of what was reported back to me was untrue." That's what it's like to be the step-parent inside a parental alienation campaign — standing in the middle of a custody war that started long before you arrived.In this conversation, licensed clinical social worker, former guardian ad litem, and 40-year psychotherapist Jessica Anne Pressler shares something we almost never hear on this channel: what parental alienation looks like from the step-parent's chair. Jessica spent 15 years inside the court system conducting custody evaluations, and she also lived through alienation herself as the new partner a mother turned her daughter against.Jessica's story starts with a genuinely happy first year, a proposal, and then, almost overnight, a child who wouldn't come to the house anymore. We talk through the emails that arrived hours after her wedding, comparing her to a "black widow." Jessica calls this "borrowed scenarios" — language dressed up as a child's own feelings that could never have come from an eight- or nine-year-old.We also dig into what happens to the "healthy" partner who watches someone they love get pulled away by fear of losing a child. Jessica is honest about her husband's catch-22 — caught between the family he built with her and a daughter conditioned to see any closeness with Jessica as betrayal of her mother. And she's just as honest about her own fear of abandonment, what she calls her own "traitor within," also the title of her forthcoming novel.What You'll Learn:✅ Why children work so hard to please the alienating parent, and how "conditional love" and fear of loss drive that behavior✅ How to recognize "borrowed scenarios" — adult language coming out of a child's mouth✅ Why an ex refusing to allow a child into therapy is itself a red flag worth naming✅ What "hatred by association" looks like when it spreads to a target parent's friends, hobbies, and new family✅ How grandparents and extended family can become "flying monkeys," and why it happens✅ Warning signs new partners often miss before marrying into a high-conflict family✅ Why the divorce becoming legally final can trigger an ex rather than settle things down✅ What a target parent's household needs to be for a child: calm, safe, and free of commentary about the other parent✅ Why BTGO tells clients not to question their kids about time spent with the other parent✅ Where a target parent's own grief and anger belong — and why it's never in front of the kidsAbout Jessica Anne Pressler: Jessica Anne Pressler is a licensed clinical social worker with nearly 40 years of experience as a psychotherapist. For 15 years, she conducted custody and visitation evaluations within the family court system, giving her a rare, dual vantage point on parental alienation — as a professional evaluator and, later, as a step-parent who lived through it in her own marriage. She is the author of the forthcoming debut novel "The Traitor Within," following a woman named Cassandra through a cycle of toxic relationships and the internal "traitor" that keeps her abandoning herself first. Jessica has appeared on Been There Got Out before, and her story is also referenced in our book "When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You."

"That is gaslighting — because the parent isn't thinking about what the child is going through. They're just making the child question their own reality."That's how licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Pinkal Panchal describes one of the most common — and most invisible — things that happens to kids caught in a high-conflict divorce or custody battle. Not the dramatic stuff. The quiet, everyday moments: a comment here, a video call there, a "your mom isn't as good as you think" dropped into an otherwise normal afternoon.In this conversation, Pinkal joins Lisa Johnson to unpack exactly what gaslighting looks like when it's aimed at kids instead of a partner — and why so many well-meaning parents do it without ever meaning to.What You'll Learn✅ How to recognize when a child is being fed conflicting realities between two homes✅ Why kids describe the divorce experience as "heartbroken, dream-broken, and brain-broken"✅ The physical and psychological symptoms Pinkal sees most often in alienated kids, including hypersomnia and eating disorders✅ A real case example of a parent using a child to monitor an ex's dating life — and why it backfires✅ Why permissive, rule-free homes often (temporarily) win a child's loyalty✅ A concrete, repeatable strategy for reconnecting with a disregulated or pulling-away child✅ Why giving your child real agency is more powerful than defending yourself✅ The three questions Pinkal asks before recommending couples therapy after domestic violence✅ Why Pinkal believes family therapy should happen before the legal battle, not afterAbout Pinkal PanchalPinkal Panchal is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist based in Newport Beach, California, where she runs a private practice serving clients from age two through seventy-five and older. Pinkal specializes in couples and family work, and she also facilitates a free, anonymous domestic violence support group where survivors can log in, share, and be heard without ever turning on a camera or revealing their name. Coming from a community where mental health carries deep stigma, Pinkal has made it her mission to bring therapy and honest conversation to people who might otherwise never ask for help. In her therapy room, she regularly works with children caught in the middle of custody battles and with the parents trying to rebuild those relationships.

"Our Family Wizard is the single source of truth." That's how attorney and Guardian ad Litem Elle Barr describes the platform she helps educate judges and family law professionals on nationwide - and it's a line worth sitting with if you're currently fighting to be believed by a court, an evaluator, or your own attorney.  In this episode, Elle joins Lisa and Chris to pull back the curtain on OurFamilyWizard (OFW), one of the most commonly court-ordered co-parenting apps in the country. If you've ever wondered why a judge would order you onto a parenting app, whether it's really different from just texting your ex, or how its AI actually rewrites hostile messages before they're sent, this conversation answers all of it - straight from someone who sits on both sides of the process.  Elle starts by dismantling the biggest misconception she hears from parents: that a court-ordered parenting app exists to punish them. In reality, it exists to protect the child by reducing conflict and creating accountability for both parents - not just the one who "needed" it.  Every action on OurFamilyWizard is time-stamped and preserved, which is why Elle calls it a single source of truth: messages can't be quietly edited or deleted, and that permanence protects both people, not just whoever's usually blamed for starting conflict. That protection matters more given what Elle describes next: "deceitful software," a growing category of apps that let someone fabricate an entire fake text or voicemail thread and present it as real evidence. She shares a personal story involving her own children pranking her with a spoofed phone call to show just how convincing these fakes can look.  The heart of the episode is Tone Meter AI, OurFamilyWizard's built-in artificial intelligence that flags an inflammatory message in real time and offers a calmer rewrite before it's sent. Elle walks through a live example - a father about to write "don't be late as usual" - and shows exactly how the AI intercepts it. If you've worked on gray writing or the FRAC model with BTGO, this will feel like validation from an independent source: a leading family-law technology platform arrived at nearly identical communication principles.  Elle also addresses privacy directly. She explains why OFW added a blurred video background to its Calls feature, protecting a survivor's location during virtual visitation, and is direct about children's limited accounts: they see the shared calendar and journal, but not private messages between their parents.  Most useful for BTGO's community: Elle confirms OurFamilyWizard offers fee waivers not only for financial hardship, but for any survivor with a protection order, restraining order, or civil restraint - a resource many don't know exists.  The conversation closes with two scenarios many of you are living right now: what to do when your ex claims they "can't figure out" the app, and how to make a persuasive, low-conflict case for using a parenting app before you have a court order requiring it.  📋 WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ Understand why family courts increasingly order parenting apps, and what "best interest of the child" really means in that decision ✅ See exactly how OurFamilyWizard's Tone Meter AI rewrites a hostile message into one that is calm, clear, and child-focused ✅ Learn why a properly used parenting app functions as a tamper-proof "single source of truth" for every co-parenting communication ✅ Discover how fake text-message and voicemail apps are being used to fabricate evidence, and how to protect yourself from them ✅ Find out how to apply for OurFamilyWizard's domestic violence fee waiver if cost or safety has kept you from using a parenting app ✅ Learn what the blurred video background feature protects, and why it matters for survivor privacy during virtual visitation ✅ Understand exactly what children can and cannot see when they have their own limited OurFamilyWizard account ✅ Hear how a Guardian ad Litem responds when a parent claims they "can't figure out" the app ✅ See how the shared calendar and Parenting Schedule Modification tool can eliminate entire categories of scheduling conflict  👤 ABOUT ELLE BARR: Elle Barr is a family law attorney based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, with nearly 23 years in practice. As a court-appointed Guardian ad Litem, she has represented thousands of children and made best-interest recommendations that have shaped custody outcomes for families across her jurisdiction. Alongside her legal practice, Elle serves as OurFamilyWizard's Judicial Education Coordinator, training judges, family law attorneys, mental health professionals, parenting coordinators, divorce coaches, and certified financial planners on how co-parenting technology can reduce conflict and improve outcomes for families going through divorce or separation. 

"Obsessive thinking is repetitive self-stimulation. It has movement in it — thought is a movement, it's an energy form." That's how somatic psychologist Annie Brook describes the loop so many of us get stuck in when life feels unsafe and unsolvable — the 3am replaying of a text from your ex, the imagined arguments you have in the shower, the same worry circling through your mind for the hundredth time.  If you're navigating high-conflict divorce, co-parenting with someone who won't cooperate, or the daily uncertainty of parental alienation, you already know this loop intimately. Chris Barry welcomes back somatic psychologist Annie Brook, Ph.D., LPC, for her second appearance on Been There Got Out, this time diving deep into why our nervous systems get hijacked by obsessive thinking, and exactly what to do about it.  Annie doesn't just explain the neuroscience, though she gets wonderfully geeky about the amygdala and hippocampus along the way. She teaches real, physical, in-the-moment tools you can use the next time your brain won't let go: an exercise to find the "center" of your head, a boundary practice she calls the hula hoop, a detective exercise for noticing exactly how you ruminate, and her signature "Blink Blink" technique for turning a stuck, painful thought back into free energy. Chris connects each tool directly back to what our community faces: court prep, hostile co-parenting calls, and the exhausting mental replay that comes with legal abuse.  What You'll Learn:  ✅ Why obsessive thinking is your brain's attempt to "motor" its way out of an unsolvable stress, not a personal failing ✅ How a simple axis exercise helps you find the calm, centered part of your brain instead of the anxious, analytical forehead ✅ How to build an invisible "hula hoop" boundary that protects your energy without shutting people out ✅ How to put on a "detective hat" and identify whether your rumination shows up as pictures, words, or sounds ✅ Why talking to your own rumination like a friend who needs help can surface what you actually need ✅ How one client turned a court-ordered call with her abusive ex into a "bingo card" that made the calls bearable ✅ Why staying "on the surfboard" instead of getting pulled into the emotional undertow protects your nervous system ✅ How the "Blink Blink" technique dynamites a stuck thought and turns it back into usable energy ✅ How the amygdala and hippocampus build a lifelong "file cabinet" of safety patterns, and why that matters for your triggers ✅ Why nervous system regulation isn't a luxury for our community, it's a strategic necessity for court and co-parenting  About Annie Brook: Annie Brook, Ph.D., LPC, is a somatic psychologist with over four decades of experience helping people repair and regulate their nervous systems. She is the former Director of Body Psychotherapy for the Master's program in Somatic Psychology at Naropa University, and co-founded the clinic Colorado Therapies, where she has worked with families, children, gang-involved youth, and survivors of abuse. Annie holds a Ph.D. in Perinatal and Somatic Psychology and blends neuroscience, movement, and body-based practices to help clients recover from trauma and chronic stress. She teaches ongoing classes including Healing Complex Trauma and Healing Birth Trauma, trains therapists in somatic methods, and is expanding her practice to include equine therapy. This is Annie's second appearance on Been There Got Out, and Chris and Lisa consider her one of the community's most requested guests.

“The court doesn’t care who was mean.” That’s not a throwaway line, according to Beverly Hills divorce attorney Nikoo Berenji, it’s one of the biggest blind spots she sees parents walk into family court with, and it can quietly sabotage an otherwise strong custody case.In this conversation, Nikoo, Senior Counsel at Berenji & Associates and a 20-year veteran of high-net-worth, high-conflict divorce litigation, breaks down exactly what judges weigh when deciding custody, and what doesn’t move the needle at all, no matter how unfair that feels. She walks through a real case where a mother spent enormous time and money building a case around her ex’s past absence as a parent, only to watch it backfire because the court only cares about what’s best for the child going forward, not who was the “better” spouse in the past.She also shares a case where a court took the rare step of giving a father six months of primary custody to reset a relationship that had been damaged by alienating behavior; proof that judges are paying closer attention to alienation than ever before.Whether you’re early in your custody case, deep into a years-long battle, or trying to figure out why your strategy isn’t working, this episode reframes what “winning” in family court actually requires.WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:✅ Why proving your ex was a bad spouse rarely helps your custody case — and can actively hurt it✅ The one best-interest factor that quietly decides more cases than people realize✅ A real case where alienating behavior led a judge to remove children from their primary caretaker for six months✅ How false or exaggerated domestic violence claims get used as a “silver bullet strategy” — and why it can backfire✅ Whether courts are getting smarter about recognizing parental alienation tactics✅ Why interrogating your kids after time with the other parent can be used against you✅ The boundaries you need around discussing legal matters when kids are in the home✅ Why a detailed, specific parenting plan prevents more conflict than any argument ever will✅ The “therapy clause” that can eliminate one of the most common sources of post-divorce conflict✅ Signs your child is struggling, even if they seem like they’re handling everything fine✅ A simple daily practice Nikoo recommends to every client, no matter how skeptical they are at firstABOUT NIKOO BERENJI:Nikoo Berenji is Senior Counsel at Berenji & Associates Divorce Lawyers, a Beverly Hills family law firm marking more than two decades of practice focused on high-net-worth, high-conflict divorce and custody cases. Before family law, Nikoo built her career in corporate law and government criminal practice, graduating from UCLA and earning a full scholarship to Berkeley Law, where she also served as a federal judicial extern to the Honorable Judge S. James Otero before starting out as an associate at Latham & Watkins LLP, one of the largest law firms in the world. That combination of corporate, criminal, and family law experience shapes how she approaches the emotionally charged, financially complex cases her firm handles, many of which involve narcissistic dynamics between spouses who are highly successful in their professional lives. Nikoo is also an adjunct professor at both UCLA School of Law and USC Gould School of Law, and she and her team work with clients across the country and around the world, with a particularly heavy concentration of cases in Southern California.

She spent five years on the inside of the family court system as a Connecticut Family Relations Counselor — the person who meets with both parents, talks to the kids, and writes the recommendation the judge leans on. In this candid conversation, Sue Gabriele explains the quiet, well-intentioned mistakes that sink good parents before they ever reach a courtroom, and what to do instead.If you have ever walked in armed with a binder of everything your ex has ever done wrong, this episode will change how you prepare. Sue shares why "suitcases full of papers" backfire, why a clean, color-coded timeline beats a stack of journals, and how to give a busy professional the facts they can actually use in the limited time they have with you.She also pulls back the curtain on something most parents never hear said out loud: the system is built to push the "weaker link" into giving up, because a settlement means no one has to write the long report. Knowing that going in changes everything about how you hold your ground.Whether you are still deciding to leave, deep in a custody dispute, or trying to co-parent with someone impossible, Sue's insider perspective helps you stop fighting the battles that don't matter and start building the case that does. As we say at Been There Got Out, courts often don't care about the abuse you suffered the way you wish they would — they care about the present, the child, and the proof. This conversation shows you how to meet them there without losing yourself.A quick, important caveat: Sue's experience is grounded in Connecticut, and family law varies widely by state. Treat her insights as a lens for understanding how court professionals think, not as legal advice for your specific case.ABOUT BEEN THERE GOT OUTLisa Johnson and Chris Barry are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists who help good people navigate the family court system and protect their relationships with their children. We fill the gap between what attorneys are trained to do and what therapists understand.Get our books, "Been There Got Out" and "When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You," and learn about our courses and 1:1 coaching at BeenThereGotOut.com.#HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #FamilyCourt #CoParenting #CustodyEvaluation #NarcissisticAbuse #ParentalAlienation #DivorceAdvice #BeenThereGotOut

Most people believe that once the divorce is final, the chaos finally ends. With a high-conflict, narcissistic, or unpredictable co-parent, the opposite is often true. As they lose day-to-day control, they learn to control you from afar—through the kids, the money, and the legal system. In this honest, practical conversation, UK coach and psychotherapist Louize Yafai joins Lisa Johnson to explain why the abuse can ramp up after separation, and exactly what to do about it.Louize knows this from the inside. After a 16-year marriage, she survived severe financial and post-separation abuse, came close to homelessness twice, and relied on food banks while raising three daughters and litigating on her own. Then she turned her pain into power, trained as a counsellor and psychotherapist, and now helps parents navigate the same storm with their dignity intact.Together they unpack the “Friday Night Bomb”—the email or filing timed to ruin your weekend—and why peace doesn’t come from your ex changing. It comes from learning to trust yourself to handle whatever arrives. You’ll learn how to stop reacting, when not to respond at all, how to protect your legal fees and your nervous system, and why an impartial guide matters when friends and family keep telling you to “just move on.”✅ WHAT YOU’LL LEARN✅ Why a high-conflict ex often gets worse, not better, after the divorce is final✅ What the “Friday Night Bomb” is—and how to stop it from ruining your time with the kids✅ How to build a “Teflon suit” and respond from a calm, grounded place✅ The in-the-moment “buffer” to use the second a hostile message lands✅ Why you should not respond to every lie—and what judges actually care about✅ How reactivity quietly drives up your legal fees✅ Why being “coached” by AI can backfire badly in a high-conflict case✅ How to know it’s time for support—without waiting until burnoutABOUT LOUIZE YAFAILouize Yafai is a divorce, separation, and co-parenting coach with a degree in counselling and psychotherapy. Drawing on her own experience of financial and post-separation abuse—and years of helping men and women face unpredictable, narcissistic co-parents—she specializes in emotional regulation, boundaries, and the practical strategies that help people move through high-conflict divorce with strength and self-respect. She is a contributing author to the #1 best seller “Emotional Alchemy” and to a recent anthology curated with Olympic medalist Fatima Whitbread MBE on overcoming adversity.

Everyone walks into family court assuming the “fair” answer is to split the kids right down the middle. Fifty-fifty. Equal time, equal say, problem solved. But what if that instinct toward fairness is quietly setting your children up for years of stress — and setting you up to lose the very argument you should be winning?In this conversation, Lisa sits down with veteran matrimonial attorney Gus Dimopoulos, who has spent 25 years handling complex, high-conflict divorce and custody cases in Westchester County and New York City. After his article “The Equality Trap” struck a nerve, we asked him to walk us through what he’s really seeing in courtrooms — and why the growing assumption that 50/50 is automatically best can be, in his words, disastrous in practice.Gus explains something most parents never learn until it’s too late: in New York, there is no legal presumption of shared custody. The law requires a best-interest analysis, and the question of a shared-custody presumption has come before the state legislature for 25 years without ever reaching a vote. Yet judges juggling hundreds of cases are under enormous pressure to settle custody early, and “just split it” starts to feel like the path of least resistance. Understanding that gap — between what the law actually says and what tends to happen in a crowded courtroom — changes how you prepare.We get into the practical reality nobody talks about: fifty-fifty demands a level of coordination, communication, and mutual respect that high-conflict co-parents simply don’t have. When you add modern kids’ schedules — sports, tutoring, therapy, club teams — an equal-time arrangement can turn every week into a battlefield. Gus also walks through parallel parenting and “spheres of influence” as a more realistic alternative for parents who can’t cooperate: you take this domain, I take that one, and we keep out of each other’s way so the kids aren’t caught in the crossfire. He shares his most important courtroom lesson, too: judges reward the parent who shows up as a calm, prepared problem-solver with a pragmatic list of facts, not the parent who comes in with drama and accusations. If something doesn’t work for your kids, you have to be able to show why — with logistics, work policies, train schedules, and evidence — rather than simply insisting the other parent is awful. We also talk about why putting real specifics into your parenting plan beats vague promises to “be cordial,” and why a child should never have to decide which parent to run to after scoring the game-winning goal.This one is essential listening whether you’re negotiating a parenting plan, heading into a custody hearing, or trying to understand why the “fair” outcome keeps making your life harder. As always, this isn’t legal advice for your specific case — it’s strategic education to help you walk in better prepared.👉 Ready for a strategy that fits your situation? Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we’ll help you identify your priorities: https://beentheregotout.comABOUT BEEN THERE GOT OUT:Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists. They help good parents navigate the gap between what attorneys aren’t trained to do and what therapists don’t address — with practical, trauma-informed, actionable guidance for protecting yourself and your kids.#5050Custody #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #FamilyCourt #CoParenting #ParallelParenting #DivorceAdvice #ChildCustody

If you have already left an abusive relationship and you're now staring down the family court system, this conversation was made for you. Lisa Johnson of Been There Got Out sits down with Liz Ortenberger, CEO of SafeNest, the largest domestic and sexual violence nonprofit in Las Vegas, Nevada, for a frank discussion about what actually works once you're in front of a judge.Here's the hard truth Liz names out loud: the court will never understand your abuser the way you do. Judges are busy, they're drawn to whoever tells the cleanest, most linear story, and many of them quietly assume that a mother fighting for custody may be exaggerating the abuse to gain an advantage. That isn't fair - but it is the room you're walking into, and pretending otherwise helps no one.So what do you do with that? Liz lays out a survivor's playbook that lines up almost perfectly with what we coach every day. Get it into the record that your children witnessed the abuse, because a child witnessing abuse has the same chemical brain reaction as a child being abused directly. Build your own clear, linear timeline before you ever walk into the courtroom. Think like a chess player rather than a boxer - anticipate your ex's next several moves and head them off, instead of just reacting. And document, document, document: photograph injuries, keep a private journal, tell a trusted friend, and email evidence to yourself so it carries a date stamp the other side can't explain away.She also shares a statistic that every survivor deserves to know: if you were strangled or choked during the relationship, your risk of a later lethal outcome rises dramatically - and that is something you can get documented medically and entered into the court record. Throughout, Liz zooms out to the bigger picture too: the history of the movement, why our systems haven't moved the numbers in 30 years, and what it would take to actually protect the next generation. Practical, honest, and genuinely useful whether you're just starting your case or years deep into it.A SURVIVOR'S COURT PLAYBOOK- How to get a child's exposure to abuse onto the official record - and why it counts- Building the clean, linear timeline judges actually respond to- Anticipating your ex's legal moves like a chess player instead of reacting like a boxer- The custody bias many survivors run into - and how to get ahead of it- A simple, free way to date-stamp your evidence so it can't be dismissed as fabricated- The strangulation statistic that belongs in your medical records and your court fileRESOURCES MENTIONED:SafeNest (Las Vegas): https://www.safenest.orgReach Liz's team: [email protected] up your ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) score - and take it for your child, tooIf you are in immediate danger, contact your local emergency services. In the U.S., the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE).This conversation is for education and support; it is not legal or mental-health advice. When you're ready, we're here to help you build a strategy that fits your situation.#DomesticViolence #FamilyCourt #CustodyBattle #CoParenting #NarcissisticAbuse #CoerciveControl #DVAwareness #SurvivorSupport

New Jersey judges are now hearing from children directly in custody matters, and parents whose exes have spent years working on those children are alarmed. Nilaja Ford's counter is that the children were already in the middle of it. The revision changes who gets to hear them.Nilaja Ford co-founded Ford Brown Law with her partner Donnett Brown. Both were prosecutors for the state of New Jersey, and both specialize in domestic violence alongside family law. Nilaja handled domestic violence contempt matters on the prosecution side before moving into an exclusively matrimonial, custody, and domestic violence practice, and she has been conducting child interviews since before the statute was revised to formalize them. She and her partner also run a free legal-services clinic at a women's resource center in Newark. Everything she describes here is New Jersey practice, though she notes much of it tracks other states moving the same way.The conversation opens on hearsay, because it is where parents lose ground without understanding why. A letter from a therapist, a teacher, or a supportive friend generally cannot stand on its own at a hearing; the person who wrote it has to be available to be questioned. Nilaja walks through the exceptions she leans on, particularly business records like school attendance, and why expert reports come with the expectation that the expert can be asked how they reached their conclusions.She then explains what the revision, nicknamed children in charge, actually does. New Jersey's best-interest standard and its 14 factors are unchanged. What is clarified is the mechanism: a recorded interview with the judge, under a protective order rather than something a parent can post, with questions submitted by both sides. Age affects how much weight a child's preference carries, not whether they are heard. And the question she puts on her own list is not who do you want to live with, it is what the ideal arrangement would look like, in specifics, because the specifics are what reveal what is really going on.Nilaja and Lisa then work through the situations BTGO's clients live in. A parent asking for sole custody, and her first question, which is always why. Reporting abuse, and why the investigating body has to be the state agency rather than you. Cayden's Law, and what these changes are trying to prevent. A teenager who has already aligned with one parent, and Nilaja's uncomfortable point that acts and omissions count, that timing counts, and that a case arriving late arrives with a history already built. She also covers legal decision-making, stonewalling, and the 24-hour clause she has had written into orders so one parent cannot run out the clock on the other.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat hearsay is, and why the letter from your child's therapist may not come inWhich records do come in, and why school attendance is used so oftenWhat New Jersey's children-in-charge revision actually changed, and what it did notHow a child interview is conducted, who submits the questions, and who can hear itHow age affects the weight of a child's preference rather than their eligibilityWhy "I want sole custody" gets answered with a question, and what she is listening forWhy the state agency, not you, has to be the one investigating an abuse allegationActs, omissions, and timing: why a case brought late arrives with a history attached⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Nilaja's background: prosecutor, then family and domestic violence law 3:00 Hearsay, and why the therapist's letter will not come in 7:00 What the children-in-charge revision actually changed 9:00 How a child interview works, and who writes the questions 11:00 Age, weight, and New Jersey's fourteen best-interest factors 17:00 "I want sole custody." Her first question is why 19:00 Reporting abuse: the agency that investigates, and why it cannot be you 25:00 Teenagers who have already been turned against a parent 31:00 Getting to the whys behind what a child says 39:00 Legal decisions, stonewalling, and 24-hour clausesKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Nilaja Ford at Ford Brown Law: https://www.fordbrownlaw.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Anne P. Mitchell coined the term "co-parenting." Decades before that, she was one of the first two attorneys in the country to argue that children have a right to an ongoing relationship with their father after a separation, work she started before she even went to law school.Anne is an attorney, law professor, law dean emeritus, and legal journalist. She's the author of They're Your Kids Too, a guide for parents navigating a broken family law system, and she co-developed one of the earliest models of co-parent counseling with therapist Carol Marx. She's still licensed in California and continues to write and advocate through her Substack and her YouTube show, Fathers Are Parents Too.In this conversation, Anne walks through the pattern she learned to recognize in her own practice: a parent losing control of custody starts escalating, and a false allegation of abuse is often what she calls the "nuclear option." She lays out the concrete steps she told her clients to take before an allegation could land, and the case that pushed her to co-develop co-parent counseling, including the "cut the cake" method for getting a resistant ex to agree to a therapist. She also names what she calls the "silver bullet" strategy, where a parent files a restraining order early specifically to gain a custody advantage, and why she considers it as dangerous today as it was decades ago.Lisa and Anne also get into what to do when your own lawyer doesn't have experience with alienation or false-allegation cases, and how to push for a second opinion or a new attorney without damaging that relationship.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhere the term "co-parenting" actually came from, and why the framing matters for your caseThe real driver behind most high-conflict acrimony, and how to recognize it escalatingEarly warning signs that a false allegation of abuse may be comingConcrete steps to protect yourself before an allegation ever gets filedWhat co-parent counseling is, what it isn't, and why it works when little else doesThe "cut the cake" method for getting a resistant ex to agree to counselingWhy proving a false allegation can flip custody in some statesThe danger of the "silver bullet" restraining-order strategy being pitched online⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Intro 4:00 One of the first US attorneys to take up fathers' and children's rights 7:00 The case she could have won, and why she didn't 10:00 From "visitation" to two parents in two homes 13:00 False allegations, and what she told clients to do about them 19:00 Supervised time as a control tactic, and documenting everything 22:00 Restraining orders filed for custody leverage 25:00 What co-parent counseling is, and when courts order it 31:00 Pre-divorce counseling, and building a schedule around the real family 37:00 A case in progress: reunification therapy with teenagers 40:00 Finding a counselor, and how to coach your own attorneyKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Two labels get used for very different situations in family court, and mixing them up changes who the judge thinks is to blame. A "high conflict" case is two parents who can't agree on a pediatrician or a summer camp. A family violence case is one parent behaving abusively while the other parent, or the child, reacts to it. Attorney Ashish Joshi says that second parent should never carry blame for the reaction.Ashish Joshi practices family law and focuses nationally on domestic violence and parental alienation cases. His first book, Litigating Parental Alienation, is one Lisa has recommended for years. His new one, Litigating Family Violence, covers the wider category: coercive control, emotional and financial abuse, immigration used as leverage, international abduction, and the child psychological maltreatment that alienation falls under. He also teaches on these issues at legal and judicial conferences, including for judges in areas with few family law resources.In this conversation, Ashish and Lisa work through the difference between parental alienation, parent-child contact problems, and alienating behaviors, and why courts sometimes need all three distinctions to get an order right. They talk about what makes a reunification order enforceable: a named therapist, a deadline, and consequences for the parent who is supposed to bring the child to sessions. They cover why letting a rejected teenager decide how often to attend therapy undermines the process, when a judge can find alienation from a parent's own text messages without an expert witness, and what changes once custody has already been reversed but the child is still in constant phone contact with the parent who alienated them.Ashish also talks about the research on men experiencing coercive control and intimate partner violence, and about vicarious trauma, both for professionals who handle these cases and for the parents living through them.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy "high conflict" is the wrong label when one parent is abusive and the other is reacting to itThe difference between parental alienation, parent-child contact problems, and alienating behaviorsWhy no child is ever "too old" for court intervention, as long as they're under the court's jurisdictionHow to write a reunification order that can't be stalled: a named therapist, a deadline, and real consequencesWhy letting a child set their own therapy schedule undermines the whole processWhen a judge can find alienation without an expert witness, and when you actually need oneWhy safeguards, not just more parenting time, matter once custody has already changedThe difference between a child's voice and a child's choice, and why courts should never confuse the two⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 What "family violence" means, and why Ashish wrote a broader book 7:00 Why "high conflict" is the wrong label for these cases 11:00 Parental alienation vs. parent-child contact problems vs. alienating behaviors 15:00 When to bring resist-refuse dynamics to court 17:00 Severe cases: custody reversal, and why no child is "too old" 19:00 Writing a reunification order that can't be stalled 25:00 Why letting a rejected teenager set the therapy schedule backfires 31:00 When you need an expert witness, and when a judge doesn't 35:00 After the custody flip: the phone, enmeshment, and safeguarding reunification 39:00 The new book, self-care for the fight, and where to find AshishKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Ashish Joshi at Joshi: Attorneys + Counselors: https://www.joshiattorneys.com/ 🔗 Ashish Joshi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashishsjoshi/ 🔗 Ashish Joshi's latest book at the American Bar Association: https://www.americanbar.org/products/inv/book/456601936/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

What happens when your ex doesn’t just badmouth you to the kids, but tells them God is on their side? In this episode, Lisa talks with interfaith minister and trauma-informed therapist Sherri Heller about one of the most under-recognized weapons in a high-conflict divorce: faith itself.When a marriage involving a high-control religious system breaks down, the parent who leaves is rarely treated as someone making a healthy choice. They’re cast as the one who “deviated,” the one who is “morally depraved,” the one the children must be protected from. Sherri explains exactly how this plays out as parental alienation and why family courts so often miss it, pushing for reconciliation “at any cost” while the smear campaign hides in plain sight behind a veneer of virtue.If you’ve heard your own child repeat phrases that don’t sound like them, like one parent in this episode, whose child said she should be talking to “good Christians, not bad divorced people,” you’ve seen what Sherri calls borrowed scenarios and abuse by proxy: the child used as a vessel to carry the alienating parent’s message. She and Lisa talk through what to actually do in that moment, why opposing the indoctrination head-on backfires, and how to find the “middle ground” and the “way in” instead.You’ll also hear Sherri’s candid take on a hard truth we teach our own clients: in a system that won’t recognize this abuse, you have to learn to play the game. Stay tactical. Gray rock. Build leverage so you’re not completely cut off from your child, and plant seeds quietly (through nature, literature, science, and critical thinking) that give your kids room to find their own autonomy as they grow, especially in adolescence when the contradictions start to surface.Sherri and Lisa also talk about where to put your energy instead of into endless arguments. At Been There Got Out we teach our clients to look for the “universal agreements,” the handful of things both parents claim to want, like a child who is healthy, happy, and well cared for. Anchoring your communication there keeps you on the high ground, gives a watching judge a clear contrast between your behavior and your ex’s, and quietly removes the conflict your ex is fishing for. Sherri’s clinical framing of why opposition feeds the narcissist lines up exactly with the strategic communication we coach every day.There’s also real hope in this episode. Sherri reminds protective parents that the very contradictions an alienating parent creates tend to surface on their own, especially in adolescence, when the pressure of living inside someone else’s story starts to produce its own symptoms. The seeds you plant now, quietly and consistently, are often what your child reaches for later when they begin to question. Your steadiness is the long game.This is essential viewing if you’re navigating custody where religion, a controlling community, or a “messianic” ex is part of the picture. It pairs directly with our book “When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You” and our work on strategic communication.About our guest: Sherri Heller is an interfaith minister and trauma-informed therapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and complex trauma recovery, and a survivor herself.⏱ CHAPTERS / TIMESTAMPS00:00 Welcome — a topic we rarely cover00:52 What is spiritual & religious abuse?02:12 Meet Sherri Heller: minister & trauma-informed therapist03:40 Common misconceptions (it’s not just isolated sects)06:02 How love bombing opens the door08:17 When the community sanctions the abuse09:44 A survivor robbed of her future11:23 Rigid rules: controlled marriages & forced isolation13:31 Narrowing it to the family system14:17 Red flags: cognitive dissonance & the absence of humility17:47 Covert vs. overt: ontological gaslighting18:48 Triangulating with the divine & prosocial camouflage20:34 Grooming children into martyrs24:49 Divorce, leaving the faith & parental alienation25:51 Learning to “play the game” in family court28:49 Borrowed scenarios & abuse by proxy29:36 Finding the middle ground with an alienated child31:34 When (and how) to tell kids a parent is mentally ill33:32 Getting out: reclaiming yourself35:27 Gray rocking, planting seeds & the adolescent awakening37:21 Where to find Sherri Heller37:53 Closing thoughtsWHO WE ARE: Been There Got Out helps protective parents survive high-conflict divorce, custody battles, and parental alienation. Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry teach the strategy that attorneys often don’t — how to communicate, document, and present your case while protecting your relationship with your kids. We’ve been there. We got out. We’ll help you do the same.→ Struggling with alienation right now? Book a free 30-minute discovery call: https://btgo.as.me/?appointmentType=24686877→ Get the book “When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You”: https://www.amazon.com/Been-There-Got-Out-Against/dp/1967674183/Find Sherri Heller: https://sheritherapist.com/index.html#ParentalAlienation #ReligiousAbuse #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #NarcissisticAbuse #CoerciveControl #ProtectiveParent #CoParenting #BeenThereGotOut

If you've been living in a high-conflict divorce or custody battle, you probably know that feeling all too well — the exhaustion that never quite leaves, the hypervigilance, the sense that your nervous system has forgotten how to relax. And for many people in these situations, a glass of wine at the end of the day has quietly become two, or three, or something stronger. Not because of weakness. Because of science.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Dr. Christal Badour, a licensed clinical psychologist and professor at the University of Kentucky, where she runs a research lab focused on trauma recovery and the intersection of PTSD and substance use disorders. Dr. Badour's work is dedicated to understanding why trauma and substance use co-occur so frequently — and more importantly, how to help people break that cycle.What you'll learn in this conversation will likely change the way you see yourself.📌 WHAT WE COVER IN THIS EPISODEDr. Badour opens by challenging one of the most persistent misconceptions in our space — the idea that trauma means a single catastrophic event. For people experiencing legal abuse, coercive control, and ongoing post-separation conflict, the damage often looks different: a chronic, lower-level activation of the stress response that erodes you over time. It's not a capital-T Trauma, but it creates many of the same consequences.From there, Lisa and Dr. Badour explore the self-medication hypothesis — the well-researched mechanism by which people dealing with painful experiences reach for substances to quiet their nervous systems. If you've ever needed something to take the edge off just to get through the day, this conversation is for you. Dr. Badour explains this not as a character flaw, but as a neurological response to overwhelming stress.The conversation takes a hopeful turn when Dr. Badour explains that you don't have to wait until the legal process is over to begin healing. Emerging research — much of it developed in military settings — shows that trauma treatment can actually begin even while the threat is still present. This is enormously important for BTGO listeners who are still in the middle of custody battles, still receiving hostile texts, still dreading the next court date.You'll also hear a moving story about one of Dr. Badour's clients — a woman who hadn't worn shorts in years because of the shame she carried from a sexual assault. The moment she walked into a therapy session in shorts? A powerful reminder of what real recovery looks like.🕐 TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction — The Connection Between Trauma and Substance Use01:45 Meet Dr. Christal Badour — Psychologist, Researcher, University of Kentucky03:20 What Mental Health Professionals Mean by "Trauma" vs. What We Mean Everyday06:10 Chronic Stress vs. Single-Incident Trauma — Why Ongoing Abuse Creates the Same Damage09:30 Legal Abuse and the Nervous System — When the Threat Never Ends12:00 Can You Start Healing Before You're Safe? What the Research Now Shows15:40 The Self-Medication Hypothesis — Why Substances "Work" in the Short Term20:15 Why Avoidance Feels Like Relief but Blocks Long-Term Recovery23:30 How Substance Use Interferes With the Brain's Natural Processing of Trauma27:00 Evidence-Based Treatment Approaches: Skills-Based vs. Trauma-Focused Therapy31:50 EMDR, Written Exposure, and Approaches That Don't Require Talking About It35:20 Animal-Assisted Therapy, Equine Therapy, and Complementary Approaches38:40 Why Joy and Connection Are Also Part of Healing (Not Just Symptom Reduction)41:10 AA, NA, Harm Reduction, and Choosing the Right Door for Where You Are44:30 How to Support a Loved One Who Is Struggling48:00 Success Stories — When the Shame Finally Lifts51:00 Where to Find Dr. Badour | scienceforsurvivors.com

You know that feeling. Your phone buzzes. You see their name. And before you can even read the message, your heart is racing, your chest tightens, and you can barely think straight.You're not overreacting. You're not weak. Your brain has been literally wired by trauma to respond to that notification as if your life is in danger — because for a long time, it was.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Max Weigand, a positive psychologist from Germany and the creator of Psychosomatic Intelligence — a method that brings together the science of the mind, subconscious beliefs, and nervous system mastery to help people who are stuck in chronic fight-or-flight finally break free.If you're navigating high-conflict divorce, shared custody with a narcissistic ex, or family court proceedings, what Max shares in this conversation isn't just inspiring — it's immediately practical. Because the same nervous system that's been hijacked by years of abuse is the one you're being asked to perform with in court, in mediation, and in every co-parenting communication you send.Here's what makes this conversation so powerful for where you are right now:✅ Why negative emotions literally shut down your prefrontal cortex — the part of your brain responsible for logic, reasoning, and staying calm on the witness stand✅ The reason your brain can't tell the difference between a real threat and a text message from your ex — and why that's not a flaw, it's a survival feature you can learn to override✅ What Max calls your 'emotional home' — the default emotional state you keep returning to — and how to identify whether yours is working for you or against you✅ The 'reality filter' concept and why people stuck in victimhood aren't being dramatic — their brains are literally filtering out evidence of anything good✅ Simple, free morning practices (journaling, gratitude, visualization, mindful tea) that Max says can rewire the brain's neural pathways — especially if used during the critical theta window right after waking✅ The famous 'golden crocodile' demonstration that shows, in real-time, why trying NOT to think about something backfires every time — and what to do instead✅ Max's take on forgiveness — not as something you do for your ex, but as the practice of learning to stop swallowing the poisonLisa makes a point in this conversation that will resonate with so many of you: the moment you hear a ding from your phone that might be a message from your abusive ex is the perfect example of the brain treating an imagined threat as a physical danger. Years after separation, the neurology of abuse is still running in the background. Max explains not just why that happens, but what to actually do about it.This is one of those conversations that feels equally useful whether you're deep in the legal battle right now or years out and still feeling the weight of it. The tools work at any stage — and they work faster if you're starting from a harder place.⏱ TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Introduction: Max's core philosophy — the further down you are, the more potential you have02:09 — Why mastering the nervous system matters more than just changing your mindset04:41 — Max introduces himself and Psychosomatic Intelligence05:43 — How emotional dysregulation destroys decision-making — the prefrontal cortex goes offline09:33 — Why your brain can't tell the difference between a real threat and a vivid memory or imagination10:33 — The 'notification ding' effect: your body's panic response to a text from your ex12:00 — Neural pathways: why the fear response gets stronger every time you repeat the pattern12:27 — What is Psychosomatic Intelligence? The three-system alignment model13:58 — Step 1: Awareness — identifying your 'emotional home'16:33 — The mind-body feedback loop: how physical tension amplifies emotional states17:01 — Projecting your body state onto other people — why a bad night's sleep creates conflict17:25 — 'Living in victimhood': how the brain's reality filter traps you in suffering19:14 — The reticular activating system: your brain's filter and how to reset it20:33 — Practical tool: the 'what's going right' morning question21:10 — Lisa's recommendation: 10 minutes of fun every day to balance stress hormones21:20 — Abraham Lincoln and the sharp axe: why you can't afford NOT to pause23:05 — Lisa shares her morning journaling practice and how it changed her days24:00 — The theta window: why morning and evening are the most powerful times to rewire your brain25:33 — The neuroplasticity moment: why it doesn't matter if you journal, visualize, or just drink tea26:40 — The 'golden crocodile' live demonstration: why 'don't think about it' never works27:38 — The pink fluffy unicorn: replace, don't resist — the neuroscience of positive focus29:01 — Forgiveness: not about the other person — about choosing not to swallow the poison29:25 — Lisa on 'apathy as freedom' and the goal of emotional peace29:44 — Nikos Kazantzakis quote: 'I want nothing. I fear nothing. I am free.'30:13 — Wrap-up and how to find Max

Two parents cannot sit across a table without it turning into a fight, so the mediation moves onto Zoom. Each one waits in a separate breakout room while the attorneys shuttle between them, trading a religious holiday here for an extra week of summer there, until an agreement takes shape without the two of them ever having to look at each other.Ian Steinberg practices matrimonial and family law in New York City, where his firm handles divorce across the city, Westchester, and Long Island. He is also a friend of Chris and Lisa's, returning for a second conversation. His first career was in real estate litigation, which taught him how a courtroom actually behaves; he later trained in mediation and collaborative law, convinced there was a less destructive path through a divorce. He traces his feel for conflict resolution back further than that, to refereeing adult-league hockey as a teenager, holding the whistle as the youngest person on the ice.Ian lays out how mediation works when one side holds far more of the power. In its classic form, two parties meet with a single neutral mediator and each consults a private attorney between sessions, so no decision binds anyone until it is written down and signed. He explains why a retired judge sitting as mediator can rein in a parent who is used to getting their way, and how separate rooms, in person or over video, keep a frightened party from having to negotiate across from someone who frightens them. He also makes the case for what mediation saves: money that would otherwise go to motion practice, and the momentum that comes from shrinking ten open issues down to two.For anyone walking into a first session scared, Ian offers a plan: prepare with your lawyer and your divorce coach, name the triggers you already know your ex will use, and write down every ask in advance. Above all, you are never required to say yes in the room, and a good lawyer will not corner you into it. He is equally clear about the cases where the power imbalance is too great or the conflict too raw, and mediation should not go forward at all.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy mediation can still work in a domestic violence case, but only with firm guardrails in placeThe difference between classic mediation and attorney-guided mediation, and when each one fitsHow a retired judge serving as mediator can shift a lopsided power dynamicWhat a consulting attorney does, and why nothing is binding until it is on paperHow separate rooms and Zoom breakout rooms keep a frightened party from facing their exHow to prepare: your written asks, your known triggers, and the professionals around youWhy you never have to agree on the spot, even when your own lawyer is pushing to closeThe signs that mediation should stop, or was never the right fit for your case⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Welcoming Ian back, and what litigation costs you 3:00 Learning conflict resolution as a teenage hockey referee 5:00 When family court does not protect the target 7:00 Two kinds of mediation, and the consulting attorney outside the room 11:00 Retired judges as mediators, and shifting a power imbalance 13:00 Lisa's own mediation, and the momentum of small agreements 17:00 Zoom breakout rooms and four-way conferences for safety 21:00 Preparing a scared client: asks, triggers, and support 25:00 Not getting pressured to settle, and informed consent 27:00 When mediation should stop or was never the right fitKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Ian Steinberg at Berkman Bottger Newman & Schein: https://www.berkbot.com/attorneys/ian-steinberg/🎧 More with Ian Steinberg on this podcast Ep 128: What Family Court Judges Actually WeighAbout Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

If you've ever found yourself paralyzed by the fear that your ex is slowly turning your children against you and there's nothing you can do about it, this conversation is for you.In this episode of Been There Got Out, Lisa Johnson sits down with Dr. Alicia del Prado, a licensed counseling psychologist based in the San Francisco Bay Area, to talk about one of the most painful experiences a parent can go through: parental alienation. But rather than focusing only on what's happening, Dr. del Prado brings her clinical expertise to what you can actually do — specific, grounded strategies to prevent alienation from taking hold, minimize its impact when it has already started, and stay psychologically intact through all of it.One of the most important things she says: fear is a filter. When we're operating from that deep, primal terror of losing our kids, we make decisions that can actually make things worse — not because we're bad parents, but because our nervous system is in survival mode. Understanding that is the first step toward changing it.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:✅ What parental alienation actually is — and why it affects an estimated 22 million divorced and separated parents in the US and Canada alone✅ Why feeling hopeless about parental alienation is understandable — and what to focus on instead✅ How fear acts as a "filter" that distorts your decisions and what to do about it without suppressing your emotions✅ The most common misconceptions people have about alienation — both from inside the situation and from the outside✅ How to support a friend or family member going through parental alienation without saying the wrong thing✅ How to use your child's love language to stay connected even when they're pushing you away✅ What to do when your child screams at you, ignores you, or says they hate you✅ The micro goals framework: how to keep showing up consistently even when you see no results✅ Why children in these situations usually do come back — and what gives them the courage toTIMESTAMPS:00:00 — Introduction: Why we're revisiting this conversation (audio issues from previous recording)01:10 — What parental alienation actually is: a definition from a clinical psychologist02:30 — The 22 million statistic: how widespread parental alienation really is03:15 — Dr. del Prado's personal background and why this topic is close to her heart04:30 — "I feel like it's destined" — addressing the hopelessness alienated parents feel06:00 — Fear is a filter: how trauma responses hijack parenting decisions in high-conflict situations08:15 — Misconceptions about parental alienation from the inside: why catastrophizing makes it worse10:00 — Misconceptions from the outside: what friends and family get wrong and how to ask for support12:30 — The Constructive Conversations model (with Dr. Anastasia Kim) for difficult dialogue14:15 — Using love languages with alienated children: quality time, words of affirmation, gift giving, touch17:00 — When your child doesn't respond to your love language efforts: the power of repetition18:30 — Reliability and consistency: why attachment is built over time, not in a single reunion20:00 — When children are openly hostile: what to do in the moment when your child screams at you22:45 — Self-regulation tools for targeted parents (including Marsha Linehan's distress tolerance skills)24:30 — Setting limits with your child during a hostile encounter without escalating26:00 — Micro goals: why big reunion fantasies set you up to fail — and what works instead28:30 — Making micro goals about your behavior, not your child's response30:15 — Do alienated children come back? What the statistics actually show31:30 — How to find Dr. del Prado and her practiceABOUT DR. ALICIA DEL PRADO:Dr. Alicia del Prado is a licensed counseling psychologist and the founder of a group practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Her clinical work spans children, adults, families, and couples navigating relationship challenges, depression, anxiety, and trauma. Dr. del Prado brings both professional expertise and personal perspective to the topic of parental alienation — as a child of divorced parents herself, she understands both the systemic challenges families face and the emotional complexity children carry through these transitions. She is co-developer (with Dr. Anastasia Kim) of the Constructive Conversations model, a step-by-step approach to having difficult but necessary dialogues with people we care about.CONNECT WITH DR. DEL PRADO on Instagram: @DoctorDelPrado & @DelPradoCounseling

If you've been ordered into parenting coordination, or you're wondering whether a parenting coordinator could help your high-conflict custody case, this conversation is for you.Lisa sits down with Nicole Sodoma, a family law attorney with 26 years of experience, founding partner of Sodoma Law (seven locations across the Carolinas), and a practicing parenting coordinator since 2005. What makes Nicole's perspective uniquely powerful is that she's not just an expert — she's a targeted parent who has personally worked with three different parenting coordinators since her own separation in 2019. She knows this process from every angle.Together, they break down what a parenting coordinator actually does, who gets one (and why), what the most common and costly mistakes parents make are, and the practical communication and documentation strategies that can help you stop making them — starting today.Whether your parenting coordinator seems to be favoring your ex, you're confused about what decisions they can and can't make, or you're just trying to understand how to use this process strategically, Nicole gives you a clear, honest roadmap.🕐 TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction — Who is Nicole Sodoma?01:20 What is a parenting coordinator, and how does it connect to reducing conflict outside of court?03:45 What qualifies as a "high conflict case" — the legal definition from North Carolina statute06:10 Can a parenting coordinator tell right away who is high conflict?08:30 Lawyer PC vs. mental health professional PC — which one should you choose?11:00 Do parenting coordinators ever talk to your kids or observe exchanges?13:20 Parenting coordinator vs. guardian ad litem vs. custody evaluator — what's the difference?16:00 Nicole's personal story: three parenting coordinators after her 2019 separation21:15 What happens when one party just won't cooperate with the PC process24:30 Guardrails and impasse clauses — why your parenting plan needs them even without a PC28:00 Legal decision-making areas: education, medical, extracurricular, religion — and now technology31:00 Mistakes parents make — the full laundry list from Nicole31:30 Mistake #1: Over-communicating with your toxic ex (and how to stop)34:00 Bill Eddy's BIFF method and understanding high-conflict personalities36:15 BTGO's Strategic Communication course — why communication is everything38:00 Mistake #2: Reacting emotionally instead of strategically — the "knee jerk response"40:30 Mistake #3: Choosing to win over choosing resolution43:00 Mistake #4: Failing to recognize the real impact on your children46:00 The 7-38-55 rule: why what you say matters less than how you say it49:15 Mistake #5: Social media — why that post never feels as good as you think it will52:30 Mistake #6: Not documenting patterns (and how to do it right)55:45 BTGO's approach to targeted documentation — the "Super Bowl commercial" concept58:00 Recording exchanges — when it helps and when it can backfire01:01:00 Nicole's top 3 practical tips: shared children's email, school communication, blended family planning01:06:00 Technology in parenting plans — social media rules, Apple accounts, and age parameters01:09:00 How to find Nicole Sodoma + her book "Please Don't Say You're Sorry"01:11:00 Closing thoughts and takeawaysIf this conversation helped you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs it. You are not alone in this.#ParentingCoordinator #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #CoParenting #FamilyLaw #NicoleSodoma #ParentingPlan #StrategicCommunication #ParentalAlienation #BeenThereGotOut

What does a Guardian Ad Litem really think when a 10-year-old says they want 50/50 custody?Crystal Wright has heard it hundreds of times — and she can tell instantly when a child has been coached. As a family law attorney AND a working GAL in Atlanta, Georgia, Crystal is one of the rare practitioners who has seen the custody system from every angle: as the attorney fighting for clients, as the neutral investigator protecting children, and as the professional who has had exactly one parent incarcerated for defying her court orders.In this conversation, Crystal joins Lisa Johnson to unpack one of the most contentious questions in family law: when should a child's voice be allowed to decide their custody arrangement — and when should it be completely disregarded?The answer, Crystal says, has nothing to do with how articulate or advanced your child is. It has everything to do with whether the language they're using sounds like an actual child — or like someone's lawyer.What You'll Learn in This Episode:✅ How GALs instantly detect when a child has been coached — and what specific language is a dead giveaway✅ Why "I want 50/50 custody" coming from a 10-year-old should raise immediate red flags✅ What the 'borrowed scenarios' phenomenon looks like in a real investigation✅ How Crystal visits kids at their schools — without telling the parents — and why she always gets new information✅ The real impact on children when they're put in the middle: clinical depression, self-harm, 17-year-olds calling their GAL crying at 10pm✅ At what ages (11 and 14 in Georgia) a child's preference becomes legally relevant — and why that still doesn't mean they get to choose✅ The non-negotiable case for reunification therapy — and what Crystal does to parents who try to block it✅ How to find a qualified GAL and what to look for in a mental health expert for an older, refusing child✅ What to do when your child won't see you: Crystal's direct advice to rejected parents⏱️ Timestamps:00:00 — Introduction: How Lisa and Crystal met at the Bridging the Gap conference in London01:45 — How a GAL tells the difference: coached child vs. genuine preference04:30 — Crystal's background: family law attorney, boutique firm in Atlanta, and why she loves GAL work06:00 — Advanced children vs. coached children: why intelligence isn't the issue08:15 — "I want 50/50" — why that phrase signals coaching immediately10:00 — Age and preference in Georgia: the affidavit of election at 11, determinative weight at 1413:30 — Why Crystal stopped having children sign affidavits of election15:45 — The 17-year-old: even at near-adulthood, best interest analysis still controls18:00 — Reaction to New Jersey's ruling: what does it mean for children's long-term wellbeing?21:00 — Why Crystal visits children at their schools — without telling parents — and what she learns23:30 — Children and truth-telling: parroting, fawning, and protecting a parent26:00 — Loyalty conflicts: the real emotional impact on children stuck in the middle29:00 — Clinical depression, self-harm, and older kids calling Crystal crying at 10pm32:00 — Older children refusing contact: how to make the case for intervention to the court35:00 — Reunification therapy: Crystal has never been denied an order for it — and here's why38:30 — What happens to parents who block reunification therapy: contempt motions and incarceration41:00 — What kind of expert witness to bring in for an older refusing child43:30 — False allegations and fake documents: how they're handled in investigation46:00 — How to find a good GAL and what qualifications actually matter48:30 — How to prepare your child for a GAL interview (and what NOT to say)51:00 — Advice for rejected parents: don't give up, keep reaching out, send birthday gifts54:00 — Memory, photographs, and why fighting for a child who doesn't want you right now still matters56:30 — How to find Crystal Wright and closing remarks💬 Connect with Crystal Wright:Instagram: @crystalwrightlawgaWebsite: https://crystalwrightlaw.com/

Jon went four years without speaking to any of his four children. This episode is a follow-up: two weeks before recording, one of his daughters texted him for the first time since telling him, in her twenties, that she never wanted to see him again.Jon, the advocate behind the Male Victims of Female Narcissists community, coaches men who are dealing with an emotionally abusive ex and parental alienation, work that grew out of his own long marriage and divorce. He describes his ex as someone who worked her way between him and his kids, and between him and his extended family, gradually rather than all at once.In this conversation, Jon and Lisa go through the two forms of alienation he sees most often: one that plays out through the court system with younger children, and a slower version with older kids, where the distance starts to feel like the child's own choice. He talks about why he now thinks he divorced too late, what he said when his daughter finally reached back out after four years of silence, and the story from the Bible's prodigal son that shaped how he waited for her.Jon also shares what he tells the men he coaches: why chasing an adult child who has cut contact usually backfires, why he still doesn't discuss the marriage's problems with his kids, and why everyone he has talked to about this points to the same pattern: the parent who stays consistent tends to be the one a child eventually comes back to.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnThe two different kinds of parental alienation: one enforced through the court system, one that develops slowly with older kidsWhy Jon now believes divorcing earlier might have given his kids a stable home soonerWhat he actually said, and didn't say, when his estranged daughter reached back out after four yearsWhy chasing an adult child who has cut contact rarely worksWhy he doesn't discuss the marriage's problems with his kids, even years laterThe prodigal-son framework that shaped how he waited for his daughter to reach outWhy acknowledging the hurt on both sides mattered as much as the apology itself⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Two kinds of parental alienation 5:00 Why he waited to divorce, and what he'd do differently 11:00 The text that said "see you never" 13:00 The prodigal son framework: waiting without chasing 19:00 The actual reconciliation call, and not pulling punches 25:00 Advice for parents whose kids are still young 29:00 Taking the high road, and where his other three kids stand 35:00 Coaching men through this, and where to find JonKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Male Victim Jon on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/malevictimsoffemalenarcissists/🎧 More with Male Victim Jon on this podcast Ep 180: Parental Alienation With Adult Children Ep 222: Parental Alienation and Surviving the HolidaysAbout Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Lynn Price once walked away from a negotiation and left real money on the table on purpose. After twenty-five years and more than eleven thousand negotiations as a corporate attorney, she did it because the conflict was making her sick and she valued peace more, and she calls that a strategic decision, not a defeat.Lynn Price is a negotiation speaker, trainer, and author, and an attorney who spent over two decades as in-house corporate counsel. Across roughly eleven thousand negotiations she started noticing patterns and turned them into a simple, memorable formula she calls the three Rs. Her book, Negotiate It!, breaks the whole skill down.In this episode, Lynn and Lisa adapt that formula for a toxic ex you feel powerless against. They work through being Ready, Relatable, and Reasonable, and Lynn's system of sorting every want into three buckets: your have-to-haves, your helpful-haves, and your hopeful-haves, the ones you can trade away. She explains why you make the ask even when the other side holds the leverage, why you make it and then stop talking, and a line she learned early: if it feels good to say it, don't.They trade the moves Been There Got Out teaches too, anchoring to a shared goal, never asking or answering why, and never letting your ex see how much you want something. Lynn is practical about how to build the skill: practicing out loud in front of a mirror or a camera so your words and your face do not give you away, and even rehearsing with AI. Her core message is that negotiation is learnable, not a personality trait, and preparation is what turns fear into confidence.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnThe three Rs of negotiation: being Ready, Relatable, and ReasonableHow to sort every want into have-to-haves, helpful-haves, and hopeful-havesWhy you make the ask even when the other person holds the leverageWhy you should make your ask and then stop talkingThe rule "if it feels good to say it, don't," and how to use a pauseWhy you never ask or answer "why" with a difficult exHow to prepare by practicing out loud, recording yourself, even rehearsing with AI⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Negotiation vs. mediation, and Lynn's 11,000 deals 3:00 The three Rs, and confidence from small wins 5:00 Leverage is perception: you still get to make the ask 9:00 Prioritizing your ask: the three buckets 13:00 Being relatable, and anchoring to common ground 15:00 Make the ask, then go silent 17:00 "If it feels good to say it, don't" 19:00 Being reasonable, and never asking or answering "why" 27:00 The price of peace, and cost-benefit 29:00 Preparing: practice out loud, record yourself, even AIKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Lynn Price at Lynn Price Consulting: https://lynnpriceconsulting.com/ 🔗 Negotiate It! by Lynn Price (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/Negotiate-Develop-Negotiation-Muscle-Workplace/dp/0692152539About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

What does a family court judge actually think when you walk through those courtroom doors?If you have ever walked out of a hearing asking "why did the judge do THAT?" — this conversation is for you.Peggy Walsh spent 18 years as a family court judge — after first building her career representing parents, caregivers, and children as a family law attorney. Then she took off her robe. Not because she stopped caring, but because she believed that the people who love a child should be the ones making decisions for that child — not a stranger, however well-intentioned, in a black robe.Today, Peggy works as a co-parenting coach, helping parents stay out of court altogether — or, when court is unavoidable, understand exactly what to expect and how to show up effectively.In this conversation, Lisa and Peggy go deep on what family court actually looks like from the inside — and what most attorneys never tell their clients before they walk into that hearing.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS INTERVIEW:✅ Why judges assume BOTH parents are high conflict — and how that shapes everything they observe✅ What judges really notice about demeanor (and why the person blurting things out in court isn't necessarily the problem outside of court)✅ The one question you should always ask your attorney before your first court appearance — and why most attorneys forget to answer it✅ What "forced resolution" vs. "compromised resolution" actually means — and why Peggy always preferred to help parents reach their own agreements✅ The specific things only you know about your family that no judge ever could — and why that makes negotiated parenting plans almost always better✅ What status conferences are, why Peggy loved using them, and how they can reduce conflict over time✅ Why appearing to "want it all your way" in front of a judge rarely ends well — and what to do instead✅ How to think about co-parenting communication as modeling behavior for your children — not just logistics management✅ Why your child hears your tone of voice even when they are upstairs and cannot hear your words✅ What it looks like to stop making your ex the "star of your show" — and why that shift changes everythingTHIS INTERVIEW IS ESSENTIAL IF YOU:- Are going to court and do not know what to expect- Are frustrated by a custody decision you do not understand- Are trying to build a parenting plan and wondering whether to negotiate or let the judge decide- Keep getting pulled back to court by a high-conflict co-parent- Want to understand what judges actually value — not what TV court dramas portray- Are ready to shift from reactive victim to proactive problem-solver in your caseABOUT PEGGY WALSH:Peggy Walsh is a retired family court judge who served for 18 years, primarily handling divorce and family law matters. Prior to her time on the bench, she represented parents, caregivers, and children as a family law attorney. She is now a co-parenting coach, helping parents navigate high-conflict situations, create workable parenting plans, and stay out of court whenever possible.Connect with Peggy Walsh: https://peggywalsh.com/

🔁 Dr. Premela Deck is back — and this time, she's going deeper.If you're navigating reunification therapy, supervised visitation, or simply trying to understand why court-ordered therapy isn't fixing anything, this is the conversation you've been waiting for.Dr. Premela Deck holds a rare trifecta of credentials: she's a family law attorney, a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker (LICSW), and a PhD-level social worker who has spent her career studying high-conflict families. Her practice, ST Family Services in Massachusetts, brings together psychologists, social workers, attorneys, and even a retired judge under one roof.In this episode, Lisa and Premela do something a little different: they brainstorm the questions that most parents in our community are too scared — or too confused — to ask. And what comes out of that conversation is some of the most practical, grounding guidance we've ever put on this channel.⏱ TIMESTAMPS00:00 Introduction — Dr. Premela Deck Returns00:55 Real client case: the supervised visit that fell apart before it started04:10 Why court orders and clinical interventions are often in conflict06:30 The prep work that HAS to happen before any supervised visit09:00 What you should ACTUALLY tell your child about supervised visitation11:20 How removing the loyalty bind can unlock the relationship13:10 Dr. Premela Deck introduces herself and ST Family Services15:30 The collaborative model: why siloed professionals fail families17:45 What should a child be told about supervised visits? (Full question)20:00 How to handle transitions when a child is crying or dysregulated22:15 "I can't force her — she's traumatized": how to respond to this message25:10 How parenting plans (and their vagueness) impact reunification27:30 The silver bullet strategy — and why it blows up cases30:20 Your attorney is your employee: taking strategic oversight of your case32:00 Coercive co-parenting: "my ex is abusive — what do I do?"34:15 What to prepare before meeting a reunification therapist for the first time36:40 When a child is a teenager: what force is (and isn't) in this work38:50 Making a good impression on therapists and court professionals40:30 Who should pay for therapy when "you're the problem"?42:10 Will a charismatic, narcissistic ex fool the therapist?44:20 What is a parentectomy?46:00 "Breadcrumbs": how to keep the door open when you need to step back48:30 Parental rights vs. children's best interest — when they collide50:00 Looking ahead: webinars, court order strategy, and what's coming next#ParentalAlienation #ReunificationTherapy #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #FamilyTherapy #SupervisedVisitation #NarcissisticAbuse #CoParenting #FamilyCourt #BeenThereGotOut #DrPremelaDeck

Freeze has no movement in it, and Annie Brook says that is exactly the problem. When you go numb before a hearing there is nothing moving, so there is nothing to feel, so there is no way back to your own awareness. Everything she teaches works by putting movement, breath, weight, or pressure back into a body that has stopped producing any.Dr. Annie Brook is a body-centered, or somatic, psychologist with a doctorate and decades in practice. She runs The Brook Institute, which trains therapists, publishes online courses, and gives away a substantial free library of articles and tools. Her specialty is what she calls pre- and perinatal work: the impressions laid down before a person could think, including birth and adoption trauma. She is candid that this is her own material as well. She was born premature, spent seventeen days in an incubator without touch, and did not connect her adult perfectionism to a fear of being sent back there until her forties. She has also worked with children in the court system, and says the experience damaged her confidence in it. This is her first appearance on the show.In this episode, Annie explains how an early template sets the questions a nervous system keeps asking, and what she looks for in an adult: whether you let someone very close very fast, whether you override your own instincts, whether you keep getting blindsided. She and Lisa spend time on shame and self-blame, which Annie treats as a serious drain on personal power, because once you have lost the felt sense of your own potency you make strange decisions and turn your anger inward. She also describes a small girl in her office who taped shut the gap in a folding screen and would not let her in, and what that turned out to be about.The second half is a toolkit, and Annie walks through each one so a listener can do it while listening. A ball you imagine breathing between your hands, for coming out of a frozen state. Weight and pressure, which she calls proprioception, done invisibly against a desk or a chair. Three sentences worth having ready. A spatial boundary you fill with your own energy rather than leaving collapsed for other people to walk through. Pushing down through your feet before you push outward. She and Lisa talk about high tone, low tone, and the middle you want under pressure, about blending fierceness with compassion without losing either, about interrupting self-attack by twisting a towel under the table on a video hearing, and about why she suggests watching a fish.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy hopelessness after one of these relationships isn't evidence that you're brokenWhat Annie looks for in adults: moving too fast, overriding instincts, getting blindsidedWhy shame and self-blame drain your sense of your own potencyProprioception: using weight and pressure in a courtroom without anyone noticingThree sentences worth having ready before a hearingThe spatial boundary you fill instead of leaving collapsedPushing down through your feet before you push outward, and why the order mattersHigh tone, low tone, and how to stay in the middle during a hard phone call⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 The "bad picker" belief, and why hopelessness isn't proof you're broken 4:00 Meet Annie Brook, and patterns encoded before you could think 7:00 Attachment, and the template an early experience sets 10:00 Being blindsided, and what shame and self-blame cost you 12:00 What children show in play: the folding screen 15:00 Body awareness, and the spatial game to play with a friend 18:00 The breathing ball, and coming out of freeze 22:00 Four things to do right before court, and the boundary you fill 27:00 High tone, low tone, and staying in the middle 32:00 Fierceness with compassion, and pushing down through your feet 36:00 Self-attack thinking, and twisting a towel under the tableKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Dr. Annie Brook and The Brook Institute: https://anniebrook.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Finding the right therapist for your child during a high-conflict divorce is one of the most important and misunderstood decisions you'll make.Most parents want immediate results. They want their child to sit down in session one and start processing everything that's been happening at home. But experienced art therapist Ahimsa Luciano has seen this expectation backfire again and again, and she has a more effective approach to share.In this conversation, Ahimsa breaks down what effective therapy for children in high-conflict situations actually looks like, why it takes longer than parents expect, and why that's not a bad thing. She explains how to match your child's personality to a therapeutic style, what to say when the other parent has told your child therapy means something is wrong with them, and exactly why the therapist can't be your source of custody intel, even when you desperately want updates.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:- Why AI will never replace a human therapist, and what the 7-38-55 communication rule reveals about what's really missing- What makes an experienced intake truly different and why this first step is the most important one- How to give a resistant child space to open up, even when their world feels like it's in chaos- Why it can take months (or longer) before a child talks, and why that's not failure- How to handle a child who's been told therapy means they're damaged - a trauma-informed response that actually works- The truth about "parentification" in high-conflict families and its long-term impact on relationships and boundaries- Why children tell each parent something different and why that doesn't mean anyone is lying- What 'your child is fine with both parents' in an evaluation actually means, and why it's not the betrayal it feels like- Why custody exchanges are a major anxiety trigger for children and the specific harm of using kids as tools at handoffs- Questions to ask when choosing a therapist for your child including how to match personality type to therapeutic style- Why your child's therapy space must be private and what the therapist will and won't share with youABOUT AHIMSA LUCIANO:Ahimsa Luciano is an art therapist licensed in New York State and the co-founder and co-owner of Pleasantville Wellness Group, a multidisciplinary therapy practice in Pleasantville, NY serving children through adults, couples, and families. She began her career at a domestic violence and sexual assault agency as the children's therapist — an experience that gave her deep roots in working with kids navigating high-conflict separations, divorce, and trauma. Pleasantville Wellness Group offers a broad range of therapeutic modalities including art therapy, play therapy, and individual and group services, and is currently in-network with NYSHIP, United Healthcare, and Oxford for New York State clients. Some therapists in the practice are also licensed in additional states.  https://www.pleasantvillewellnessgroup.com/home#highconflictdivorce #childtherapy #parentalalienation #coparenting #arttherapy #custodybattle #parentification #divorceandkids #traumainformedparenting #beentheregotout #kidsanddivorce #therapyforchildren

Julia Hochstadt has spent years listening to accounts that sound impossible, and she does not treat the implausibility as information. When a child discloses, her instruction to parents is to believe them and to say so explicitly, repeatedly, in those words. Fear of not being believed is one of the reasons people stay silent for decades.Julia is a licensed clinical social worker practicing in New York and New Jersey, consulting and speaking nationally, and testifying as an expert witness on domestic violence, intimate partner violence, and sexual violence. She works with primary survivors and with secondary survivors, the family members and friends who are also carrying it. Her clinical practice starts around age fifteen, though many of her clients are parents of much younger children, which is where this conversation lives.A large part of it is about trusting yourself. Julia points out that the parents in this audience have often spent years being told they are not smart, not capable, not a good parent, which is designed to erode exactly the instrument they now need. So when they notice a change in a child's mood, grades, friendships, or preferences, they second guess it. Her advice is to lean in rather than watch and wait, and to use whatever supports exist, including a teacher, a school counselor, or a pediatrician.Then she gets concrete about safety planning for a child who has to go back because an order says so. She models it on fire safety: built in advance, practiced, and revisited a couple of times a year as the school year, sports seasons, and vacations change, rather than assembled during an emergency. Devices and who a child would call. Which neighbor, and the backup for when that neighbor is away. What to do if a parent is unresponsive or making threats. She wants children brought into the planning at whatever level fits them, because they know their own routine better than the adults do. Julia also responds to a case where the reports went nowhere, a forced reunification arrangement is making a child worse, and the protective parent is being labeled an alienator for objecting. She talks about what the research says about a believing, supporting parent, why staying is sometimes the safety decision rather than a failure, and why not every attorney or clinician is equipped for these dynamics.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat to do in the first minutes after a child discloses, and the words to say out loudWhy an unbelievable-sounding account is not a reason to doubt a childHow to trust your instincts after years of being told your judgment is wrongSigns worth leaning into: mood, grades, friendships, and changes in preferencesSafety planning for a child the court still sends back, built like a fire drillWhat a plan covers: devices, which neighbor, times of day, and the backupsWhy bringing your child into the planning produces a better planWhy not every attorney or therapist understands these dynamics well enough⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 The one thing not to do when a child discloses 3:00 Believing the unbelievable, and saying "I believe you" out loud 5:00 Julia's background: primary and secondary survivors 7:00 Signs something is wrong, and trusting a gut that has been eroded 11:00 Who to reach out to when you feel you have no support at all 13:00 Safety planning when the order says the child goes back 17:00 What a plan covers, and revisiting it like a fire drill 23:00 When the system fails, and a forced reunification makes things worse 27:00 What a believing parent's support does for a child's trajectory 31:00 What to say to a child you still have to hand over 37:00 Why "just leave" is not the right answer for everyoneKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Julia Hochstadt, LCSW: https://www.therapywithjulia.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

James Porfido spent decades on both sides of a criminal courtroom, prosecuting cases and then defending them. What he saw over 35 years became a book about a system he believes has tilted out of balance.James Porfido has practiced law for more than 35 years, starting as a certified criminal trial attorney in a New Jersey prosecutor's office and later moving to the defense side, where he handled sex crimes and child abuse cases. He is now of counsel at a large New Jersey firm, teaches advocacy and persuasion as an adjunct law professor, and has spent 25 years as a legal analyst commenting on high-profile cases. He is the author of "Unequal Justice: The Search for Truth, the Balance in the Scales."In this conversation, James and Lisa focus on the theme that torments their audience: a court process that moves so slowly it becomes its own punishment, and an ex who exploits that. He explains New Jersey's lifetime restraining orders and the narrow path to dissolving one, why the "I'll just explain it to the judge" instinct fails, and how a parent can lose all contact with their children while an allegation, sometimes a coached or false one, sits unresolved for a year.They also get practical. James is candid that these cases are a fight, and that the right attorney is one who knows the courthouse and its people, not only the statutes. He walks through the questions worth asking before you hire, and why "how much do you charge" should not be the first one. And he shares the harder argument from his book: that a restraining order is sometimes granted as a tactic to gain leverage, which pushes back the people with real injuries waiting at the back of the courtroom for the protection they actually need.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat New Jersey's lifetime restraining orders mean, and why they're so hard to dissolveWhy "just telling the judge you didn't do it" is not how any of this worksHow the delay between a temporary and a final order can itself become a weaponWhat happens to a parent's contact with their kids while an allegation is pendingHow a coached allegation can flip a parent from presumed innocent to presumed guiltyWhy knowing the "players," not just the law, is what you want in an attorneyThe questions to ask before you hire, beyond "how much will this cost?"Why genuine abuse cases deserve priority over the ones weaponizing the system⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 What a legal analyst does, and trials as storytelling 5:00 From prosecutor to defense, with a grounding in DV cases 9:00 New Jersey's lifetime restraining orders, and how hard they are to undo 13:00 Why you can't just "tell the judge," and the side-of-the-road trap 15:00 When the delay itself becomes the weapon 17:00 Kids under a restraining order, and a parent becoming a stranger 19:00 False allegations, coached children, and being presumed guilty 21:00 Surviving the limbo, and an attorney who knows the players 25:00 The questions to ask before you hire (not "how much?") 29:00 Unequal Justice: when restraining orders get weaponizedKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 James Porfido at Porfido Law: https://www.porfidolaw.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

The limbic system floods the cortex when a child goes into a rage, which is why talking them down does not work. Tosha Schore puts it plainly: you can feel your way out of thinking, but you cannot think your way out of feeling, and in that moment there is nobody home to reason with anyway.Tosha Schore is back on the show, and this conversation is about children who are not only emotionally aggressive but physically violent. She founded Parenting Boys Peacefully and co-authored Listen: Five Simple Tools to Meet Your Everyday Parenting Challenges with her mentor Patty Wipfler. She has three sons, now grown, and describes the morning that started this work: reading the news, noticing that the violence in it was almost all committed by men, and deciding to find out what a parent can change while a boy is small.Tosha and Lisa map the predictors first. Fear, in all its forms, and change a child had no say in, which is what a divorce is. Rigidity, and the child who cannot cope when today runs differently from yesterday. Then the difference between an outburst anyone might have and a pattern you can see coming, which is the sentence that starts with hoping he does not throw the remote again this week.The tools follow. Keeping everyone safe, including the parent, and why she would rather your door got dented than your arm scratched. Saying almost nothing, because it lands on a brain that cannot use it. Not naming your child's feelings for them, which she says goes over like lighter fluid. Stay listening, meaning staying present without trying to fix anything, and the notes some parents pass under the door that turn into a written back and forth about things too hard to say aloud. Tosha also takes on disrespect, and what to do when the words coming out of your child sound exactly like your ex, and closes on connection between the hard moments: rough and tumble play, indoor snowballs, dragging a kid around the floor on a sheet, and a timed block where they lead and you follow.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat predicts aggression in a child, and why change they did not choose sets it offThe difference between a one-off outburst and a pattern you can see comingHow to keep everyone safe in the moment, including yourselfWhy you cannot talk a flooded child down, and the little you should say insteadWhy naming your child's emotions for them makes the outburst worseStay listening: staying present without fixing, and the notes under the doorWhat to do when your child's words sound like your ex coming out of their mouthConnection between the hard moments: rough and tumble play and letting them lead⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 How Tosha came to this work, and why she focused on boys 4:00 Predictors: fear, change nobody chose, and rigidity 6:00 A one-off outburst versus a pattern worth addressing 7:30 In the moment: keeping everyone safe, including you 9:00 Why you cannot talk a furious child out of a feeling 11:00 Nervous laughter, and the shame that follows hurting you 13:30 Stay listening, and the notes people slide under the door 16:30 Time-outs, and teaching a boy that asking for help is strong 19:00 When you hear your ex's voice coming out of your child 23:00 Rough and tumble play, and special time where they leadKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Tosha Schore at Parenting Boys Peacefully: https://parentingboyspeacefully.com/🎧 More with Tosha Schore on this podcast Ep 167: Aggression in Boys, and What Actually Helps Ep 209: Aggressive Kids, Loving Limits, and ConnectionAbout Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

🎯 "I don't know what to expect — and that terrifies me."If that's where you are right now, this conversation was made for you.Dr. Benjamin Garber is a New Hampshire-licensed psychologist, former therapist of 30 years, custody evaluator, and legal consultant who has spent two years building one of the most practical resources available to family court litigants: DiffuseDivorce.com, a free library of advance orientation programs to prepare you for every stage of the family court process.His central insight? The fear, overwhelm, and anxiety that fills your world when you step into family court isn't just painful — it is actively working against you. When your "anxiety balloon" is full, you can't think flexibly, communicate clearly, or show a judge and evaluator who you really are.The research-backed solution is called advance orientation: giving yourself a roadmap before you engage with a process, so you can show up as yourself instead of a terrified version of yourself.This concept, proven in medicine, dentistry, psychiatry, and now being applied to family law, is the foundation of everything Lisa and Chris teach at Been There Got Out. And in this conversation, Ben explains exactly why it works and where to get it for free.💡 WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:✅ What "advance orientation" is and why it's backed by 55+ years of research across medicine, dentistry, and psychiatry✅ Why your anxiety is actually hurting your custody case — and the science behind why✅ How judges and evaluators are watching for "ecological validity" — are they seeing the real you?✅ The single biggest misconception parents have about family court (and why it destroys cases)✅ Why diagnosis (narcissism, bipolar, etc.) matters far less than dynamic in custody cases✅ What Ben published that made his colleagues so angry they tried to submit a mass rebuttal✅ Why family law doesn't belong in our court system — and what Ben thinks should replace it✅ The 3 C's of successful co-parenting: Communication, Consistency, and Cooperation✅ Why it's more important to fight for your kids than to fight with them✅ Where to find free advance orientation programs for every stage of your case📘 DiffuseDivorce.com — Free advance orientation programs for family court litigants📘 FamilyLawConsulting.org — Ben's publications, consulting services, and book📖 Holding Tight, Letting Go — Ben's book on child development and autonomy📖 Twisted Allies — Ben's novel about family law work#FamilyCourtHelp #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #AdvanceOrientation #CustodyEvaluation #ParentalAlienation #CoParenting #DivorceSupport #NarcissisticAbuse #BeenThereGotOut

The word trigger gets used casually enough that it has stopped meaning one thing. Dr. Andrea DePetris separates two uses of it. In the trauma field it means a stimulus that activates the trauma memory network, where a person feels as though the danger is happening right now. In everyday use it means something in the present activating something unresolved from the past, often tied to early attachment.Dr. Andrea DePetris is a clinical psychologist with an academic appointment at Yale School of Medicine who also works in private practice. Much of her caseload is adults who present as though they have it together and describe the opposite privately: anxiety, stress, and a sense that it could all come apart. Her work is helping people understand what earlier circumstances and relationships are still running underneath, and then updating it so their inside matches the life they are actually living.In this episode she explains the window of tolerance, the range in which a person can stay clear, connected, and responsive. Trauma narrows it. Above the window is hyperarousal: fast speech, urgency, heat, volume, tension, the pull to win the exchange. Below it is hypoarousal: going silent, passivity, shrinking, emotional flatness, checking out. Andrea points out that which direction your body takes depends partly on how much agency you feel in the moment and partly on the environment you grew up in, and that both are the body protecting you rather than failing you.The practical half covers what to do in the moment and what to rehearse beforehand. Adjusting posture and feeling your feet on the floor if you tend to shut down. A prepared sentence and physical distance if you tend to activate. Breathing with a long exhale to reach the parasympathetic system. Scanning your surroundings for five neutral objects, or one color, when focusing inward does not feel safe. Andrea and Lisa also talk about doing this in front of children on purpose, and about the repair conversation afterward, because a parent modeling regulation is teaching it.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnTwo different meanings of "trigger," and which one people usually meanThe window of tolerance, and what narrows itHyperarousal and hypoarousal: the body signals that tell you which way you're headingWhy your reaction depends on how much agency you feel, and on how you grew upThe pause, and what it looks like differently for shutting down versus escalatingBreathing for a long exhale, and why the exhale is the part that mattersGrounding outside your body when focusing inward doesn't feel safeHow to repair with your kids afterward, and why that's the modeling, not the failure⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 What "trigger" actually means, and whether warnings help 5:00 Meet Dr. Andrea DePetris, and the window of tolerance 8:00 Hyperarousal and hypoarousal: which way your body goes 11:00 The body signals to catch before an exchange goes sideways 12:00 The pause: posture for shutdown, stepping away for activation 16:00 Practice beats perfection, and repairing after you lose it 18:00 Breathing in flowers, blowing out birthday candles 19:00 When the body doesn't feel safe: grounding outside yourself 23:00 Coaching yourself, and completing the cycle with your kidsKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Dr. Andrea DePetris, The Verity Practice: https://drandreadepetris.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Monique represented herself in her own California custody case, then went to law school. Along the way she became a trained domestic violence advocate, and she now helps organize around a bill built to address the thing that kept happening to her and to people she works with: an ex who could no longer reach them any other way, so they filed a motion just to force them back into a courtroom.Monique is a former BTGO client, a current law student, and a co-founder of a grassroots survivor advocacy group in Southern California. She is not an attorney, and she is careful to describe SB 1192, the Reclaim Act introduced by California State Senator Susan Rubio, as a proposal moving through the legislature rather than as current law.In this episode, Monique and Lisa work through how the bill is structured: defining who qualifies for protection, an affidavit that a domestic violence advocate or a mental-health professional can sign, and protected filings on the other side of it. She explains that it would recognize repeated frivolous litigation, including filings meant only to insult, injure, or maintain contact, as post-separation abuse, and that where it applies, filing fees can be waived and an attorney provided at no charge. It builds on California's existing coercive-control protections rather than starting from scratch.The back half is about advocacy itself: how survivor-led, bottom-up organizing gets laws like this passed, why testimony is most effective when it stays factual and within the time limit, and how Connecticut's Jennifer's Law opened the door other states are now walking through. Monique closes on the community work behind all of it.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat California's proposed Reclaim Act (SB 1192) is trying to do about post-separation litigationWhy the bill treats repeated frivolous filings, even ones meant only to force contact, as abuseThe three-part structure: who qualifies, an affidavit, and then protected filingsWho can sign the affidavit: a trained domestic violence advocate or a mental-health professionalWhere it applies: filing fees waived and an attorney provided at no costHow it builds on California's existing coercive-control protections rather than replacing themHow survivor-led, bottom-up advocacy actually gets a bill like this passedWhy testimony lands hardest when it stays factual, and how Jennifer's Law became the model⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Reunion: from pro se client to law student 3:00 SB 1192, the Reclaim Act, and who introduced it 5:00 The three-part test: who qualifies 7:00 The affidavit: who can sign it, and the evidence 9:00 Frivolous filings, waived fees, and a free attorney 13:00 Protecting the advocates who sign 17:00 Survivor testimony: keep it factual 21:00 Getting a law like this passed in your state 25:00 The community work behind the billKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Somewhere around the teen years, a lot of alienated parents hit the same wall: the child who used to run to them now refuses to come at all. In this episode, psychologist Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst, with fifty years helping families, offers advice that's both bracing and full of hope.She starts with a truth few say out loud: some alienation is almost unavoidable in divorce, and it tends to peak in adolescence. But she reframes the picture: your child is half the other parent, and protecting them means helping them value that half. She and Lisa get practical: why your face and body at the exchange say more than words, how to rebuild trust with a wary teen the way you'd earn a rescued animal's trust, and what to do when a teenager refuses contact. Respect it, but never disappear. Write the letters. Keep the box. Because in her experience, the children come back.This is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.✅ WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why some alienation is almost unavoidable in divorce, and why it peaks in adolescence ✅ Why your child needs to value the half of them that's the other parent ✅ What your face and body communicate at the exchange (and how to check yourself) ✅ The "rescued animal" approach to rebuilding trust with a wary teen ✅ How to reframe a "strong-willed" child as a strength, not a problem ✅ What to do when a teenager flatly refuses contact ✅ Why writing letters and keeping them matters more than you think ✅ Why the children so often come back, and how to be ready⏱️ TIMESTAMPS (+1:00 for the bumper) 0:00 Intro 1:00 Meet Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst: 50 years with families 2:48 Why some alienation is unavoidable in divorce 4:30 The attachments kids lose, and the one they cling to 6:55 Honor the other parent: your child is half of them 8:52 Reframing a "strong-willed" child as a gift 13:45 What your body says at the exchange 23:01 The "rescued animal" approach to rebuilding trust 26:24 When your teen refuses: respect it, and stay connected 31:22 Write the letters, keep the box: why kids come back 36:38 You can't do this alone 41:42 Where to find Dr. VanderhorstCTA (spoken): Losing your teenager to alienation? Book a free discovery call at beentheregotout.com. Books: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You — https://www.amazon.com/Been-There-Got-Out-Against/dp/1967674183 · Been There Got Out — https://www.amazon.com/Been-There-Got-Relationships-Circumstances/dp/194627495X/ Tags: parental alienation, alienated parent, teenager refuses visitation, reconnecting with child, co-parenting teenager, staying connected, custody, high conflict divorce, protecting your kids

One assumption does real damage in a contested separation: that child protective services is a route to custody. Sara Vandenberg, who worked those cases from the inside, says the agency does not recommend custodial arrangements between two parents and cannot hand a child to one of them. Court is where custody is decided, and calls made for custody reasons tend to come back on the person who made them.Sara Vandenberg is a psychotherapist and trauma professional who specializes in familial sexual abuse and incest, and works with survivors of abuse more broadly. She spent about three years as a child protective services caseworker in Texas before moving into clinical practice, and she now runs Tonalli Counseling Services along with a coaching and consulting practice. Her book, Choosing to Love Again, is about recovering from betrayal, from familial abuse to infidelity and abandonment. This is her second conversation on the show.She starts by lowering the temperature: investigations are common, they are usually short, and removal is rare. Then she draws the line that changes how you understand the whole process. A caseworker is not assessing whether you are a good parent. They are assessing whether the child is safe, which is why an investigation can close with nothing happening even when real harm is present. Her risk-versus-danger frame does the rest of the work: risk is the deer-crossing sign, danger is the deer in the road.The rest is practical. What to document, and why she wants a record of your child's behavior rather than a file on your ex. What a caseworker notices in a home, which is closer to milk in the fridge than an immaculate kitchen. What defensiveness sounds like when a parent lists everything they do and everything their ex does not. Preparing a child for an interview without coaching them, and how coaching gives itself away. Substances, including hair follicle testing that looks back months on a child. Getting written confirmation that a case was ruled out. What to do, early, if a placement may be coming. And repeated false reports: why you cannot stop them, and what a pattern of them eventually says about the person making the calls.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy a report to child protective services is not a route to custodyThe difference between clinical harm and what an abuse statute actually coversRisk versus danger, and which one an investigation turns onWhat to document before an investigation, and why it's your child's behaviorWhat a caseworker looks at in your home, and what they are not looking atHow to prepare a child for an interview without it reading as coachingHow to get written documentation that a case was ruled outWhat to do early if a placement may be coming, and how a safety plan differs from a removal⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 How common investigations are, and how rarely a child is removed 3:00 The myth that child protective services decides custody 5:00 Handling the panic, and how short the process usually is 8:00 What to document, and clinical harm vs. the abuse statute 12:00 Risk vs. danger: the deer-crossing frame 14:00 Defensiveness, and what a caseworker hears in "I did, he didn't" 16:00 What they look at in your home 18:00 When a caseworker can act before a judge signs off 20:00 Substances, hair follicle testing, and preparing a child for the interview 24:00 If placement is coming: naming a safe person early 27:00 Repeated false reports, and how children actually handle themKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Sara Vandenberg at Tonalli Services: https://tonalliservices.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Ninety seconds is what Dr. Sylvia Kalachinsky asks for. Breathe, observe, describe, yield. She walks Lisa through it live in this episode, and by the end of it Lisa notices her shoulders have come down without her deciding to lower them.Dr. Sylvia Kalachinsky, known to her audience as Dr. Sylvia K, is a licensed marriage and family therapist with a doctorate in family therapy and over twenty-one years of practice. She has worked with at-risk youth, provided family therapy inside juvenile detention centers and in clients' homes, worked with migrant families in California, and led group therapy at Mount Sinai for people stepping down from inpatient care. She started writing her book "Lonely AF" during the pandemic when her clinical hours were cut, and she now lives and practices in Geneva. She also hosts her own interview podcast.This conversation begins with what intergenerational trauma actually means: adaptive strategies passed down through at least three generations, some of them learned and modeled, some of them never questioned because challenging a family rule carries its own cost. Sylvia explains why people are drawn to partners who reproduce how they felt in their family of origin, and why a nervous system conditioned to one environment will reject a healthier one for feeling unfamiliar. She also widens the definition of trauma past the obvious, using a reframe from her EMDR training: anything that was too much for too long, or too little for too long.The second half is about what you can do while a case is pending and your nervous system is already overloaded. Sylvia describes the amygdala hijack, why the executive part of the brain goes offline under threat, and why the interventions people are usually told to try, meditation and yoga, are not available in that state. Instead she teaches in-between moments: relaxing your hands around the phone, moving one toe until you cannot think about anything else, and the BODY skill in ninety seconds. She explains why practicing when you are calm is what makes it available when you are not, why she advises doing it silently so a difficult ex cannot weaponize it, and what a child learns when they watch a parent regulate rather than being sent away to manage it alone.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat intergenerational trauma means, and why patterns show up across three generationsWhy people are drawn to partners who feel familiar rather than safeWhy a conditioned nervous system rejects a healthy relationship at firstA wider definition of trauma: too much for too long, or too little for too longThe amygdala hijack, and why calm-down advice does not work in that stateThe BODY skill: breathe, observe, describe, yield, in ninety secondsWhy to regulate silently, so a difficult ex cannot use it against youHow to draw a genogram and read your family's pattern for handling conflict⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 What intergenerational trauma means, and why it shows up in every family 4:00 Sylvia's background, and the book she wrote in the pandemic 7:00 Choosing partners who feel familiar rather than safe 10:00 A nervous system that rejects what is healthy for being unfamiliar 13:00 Little-t and big-T trauma, and why minimizing is its own adaptation 16:00 Hypervigilance under legal threat, and the amygdala hijack 19:00 The big-toe trick, and using the in-between moments 21:00 The BODY skill: breathe, observe, describe, yield 28:00 Doing it without announcing it, so it cannot be used against you 31:00 Somatic work over talk therapy, and modeling regulation for your kidsKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Dr. Sylvia Kalachinsky: https://drsylviak.com 🔗 Dr. Sylvia K on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drsylviak/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Children handle a strict teacher and a lenient one in the same school day without much trouble. Dr. Jill Leibowitz applies that to co-parenting: what a child needs is for each home to be predictable inside itself, not for the two to match. The trouble starts when a parent decides the other house has to fall in line.Our guest is Dr. Jill Leibowitz, a clinical psychologist with a private practice in New York City, back for another conversation. She does play therapy with young children, talk therapy with adolescents and adults, parenting work, and dyadic sessions with a parent and infant together to build secure attachment. She is the author of two children's books, The Untold Story of Itsy Bitsy's Long Emotional Day and its sequel Mama's Stressed, which model both sides of a meltdown: helping a child regulate, and repairing afterward when the grown-up is the one who lost it.Jill starts with why a child says different things in different homes, and why that is usually not lying. A feeling that was true Tuesday can be untrue Thursday. More than that, a child brings one part of themselves to one parent and another part to the other, and each parent ends up certain the other is missing something.She and Lisa then go through the specific things that inflame a case. Relaying your child's complaint to the other parent as an instruction. Insisting on identical rules when the thing that actually needs to be consistent is sleep, not bedtime routines. Screen time, and the question Jill wants a parent to ask before starting a fight: where will this battle get me. Being looped into a group text with the kids so they can lobby for the other parent's position, and the one-line reply that ends it. Sleepaway camp, and how two parents each amplify one half of a child's ambivalence. And what to do when you are the parent who never hears the hard stuff.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy a child telling each parent something different is usually not lyingCode-switching between two homes, and why kids handle it better than parents expectWhat actually needs to be consistent across households, and what does notWhy telling the other parent how to parent in their own home backfires every timeThe question to ask before you fight about screen time in a house you are not inHow to answer when your ex loops the kids into a text thread to lobby youSleepaway camp: how two parents each feed one half of a child's mixed feelingsWhy giving a child decision-making power is a burden, not a gift⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Meeting Dr. Jill Leibowitz, and her two children's books 3:00 Why a child says one thing to you and another to your ex 5:00 Bringing a different self to each parent, and why both are true 7:00 Telling the other parent how to parent, and why it backfires 9:00 Consistency between homes: what has to match and what does not 13:00 Screen time, and where this battle actually gets you 17:00 When your ex loops the kids into the text thread 19:00 Summer camp, and the child who is excited and terrified at once 23:00 The parent your child does not bring the hard stuff to 27:00 Why power is a burden for a child, and where to find JillKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Dr. Jill Leibowitz at Real Talks Everyday: https://realtalkseveryday.com/ 🔗 Dr. Jill Leibowitz on Instagram (@realtalkseveryday): https://www.instagram.com/realtalkseveryday/🎧 More with Dr. Jill Leibowitz on this podcast Ep 216: Keeping the Conflict Away From Your KidsAbout Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Horses read your state, not your words. That is the whole premise of this conversation, and it is why Kasia Bukowska says a horse can find something a person has been talking around for years.Our guest is Kasia Bukowska, an equestrian coach and equine-assisted therapist working from Poland. Her own path into this was not smooth. Her horses would not do what she asked, she went home frustrated and in tears, and she started painting to process it. Analyzing her own paintings afterward, asking why she had used those colors, why the horse's head was up or down, is how she began to decode what the animals were showing her. She keeps six horses and works with four, including one she uses rarely and only with experienced people, because several vets once told her he was too dangerous to keep.Kasia walks through what a session involves. She and the client talk on the walk up to the paddock, then she opens the gate and lets one or two horses take themselves into the arena. Nobody rides. The horse wears nothing, so it can move away, come closer, or ignore the whole thing, and each of those is treated as a response rather than an accident. She sets a task, deliberately without instructions, and watches how the person solves it. Her guiding line, which she says she picked up at a seminar, is that the way you do one thing is the way you do everything.The reason this lands for a BTGO audience is what she describes about reliving. If you are talking about being pushed around while a horse walks toward you, the horse will read the state you are in rather than the sentence you are saying, and it may walk straight into your space. Kasia also covers the version of this for people with no access to horses at all: watching one animal closely enough to leave your own head, getting genuinely grounded rather than performing it, and saying out loud that you are scared. She ends on how to find an equine-assisted or equine gestalt practitioner locally, and the same practice applied to a cat, a dog, or a tree.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat an equine-assisted session actually involves, and why nobody ridesWhy the horse wears no halter, and what it means when it walks away"The way you do one thing is the way you do everything," tested in an arenaWhy a horse responds to the memory you are reliving, not the words you are sayingHow to get something out of watching horses from a fence, with no session bookedSaying out loud that you are frightened, and what that releasesWhy addiction, anxiety and self-blame keep leading back to the same coreHow to find an equine-assisted, equine gestalt, or online practitioner⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 You do not need to own a horse for any of this 3:00 Kasia's work, and painting her way to what the horses were saying 7:00 What a session actually looks like 11:00 Why the horse stays loose, with nothing on it 13:00 The horse answers what you are reliving, not what you are saying 15:00 "The way you do one thing is the way you do everything" 19:00 Addiction, childhood, and the same core underneath 22:00 If all you can do is watch horses from a fence 25:00 Saying out loud that you are scared 29:00 Finding a practitioner, and how online sessions work 33:00 The shire horse, the pole, and what softening didKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Kasia Bukowska at Heart Horse Experience: https://www.hearthorseexperience.com/ 🔗 Kasia Bukowska on Instagram (@equestrian_kasia_bukowska): https://www.instagram.com/equestrian_kasia_bukowska/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

A liar is a liar today, tomorrow, and twenty years from now, David Goldberg says, and so is someone telling the truth. That is his argument against rushing to book the fastest, cheapest examiner you can find when a false allegation has just upended your custody case.David Goldberg is a state-licensed, advanced board-certified polygraph examiner. He spent his early career in law enforcement, and in the roughly 25 years since he has run more than 20,000 examinations for people who were never arrested or charged: parents accused in custody disputes, people facing rumors or workplace accusations, students, and adults trying to confirm something they remember from childhood. He describes himself and Lisa as being in the same line of work in one respect, which is that people arrive at both of their doors in a state of panic.The conversation opens on that panic, because David treats settling someone down as part of the job rather than a courtesy. He books one client a day and gives that person as long as it takes, on the reasoning that a rushed intake produces badly formed questions. He then walks Lisa through the sequence for a parent whose children have been removed on an allegation: the intake, questions built both around what you say happened and around what the other side is claiming, the verbal result the same day, and a detailed written report inside 24 hours.They cover what a parent can and cannot make happen. You cannot compel your ex to test. A court can order one, and therapists and evaluators sometimes request one. David also talks about what the waiting costs while a case sits, in terms of contact with your children and the relationship you then have to rebuild.The last part is the part people argue about. David names three reasons someone fails, and says the frequent one is withholding information rather than deception. He explains how to vet an examiner, why an examiner experienced only in pre-employment screening is the wrong choice for a custody or abuse allegation, and where to check credentials. On admissibility he is precise: the charts do not come in, the report can where a judge allows it, and he has had cases dropped by an agency before a courtroom was ever involved. He closes on what he sees when he tells someone they passed.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhat a polygraph can realistically do for a falsely accused parentWhy an examiner should settle you down before testing, and why that does not skew resultsThe sequence: intake, pre-test interview, same-day verbal result, written reportWhy the report is written in detail rather than as a pass-or-fail pageWhether you can make your ex take one, and when a court can order itThe three reasons David says people fail, and why holding back is the common oneHow to choose an examiner, and why to avoid referral servicesWhat is admissible: the report versus the charts, and the cases that end before court⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Calming down before you test 3:00 David's background, and the range of issues he tests for 9:00 Falsely accused in a custody case: the process step by step 13:00 The verbal result, then the detailed written report 15:00 Can you make your ex take one? Can a court order it? 17:00 What the waiting costs you and your children 19:00 The three reasons people fail a polygraph 23:00 Choosing an examiner, and the shortcuts to avoid 25:00 Admissibility, and using a result outside the courtroom 33:00 What closure actually looks likeKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 David Goldberg, Executive Protection Group: https://www.executiveprotectiongrp.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

The baiting is the point. When a co-parent pushes a boundary the court will not enforce, drops the kids' things off after being told not to, needles you in front of the children, it is engineered to spike your nervous system so you react and end up looking like the problem. Dr. Jordin Wiggins works on the one thing you can actually control in that moment: your own physiology.Dr. Jordin Wiggins is a naturopathic doctor of more than a decade who noticed her patients' health complaints kept overlapping with coercive control and abuse, then lived through an abusive relationship herself without seeing it at the time. She now helps high-achieving people recover, using nervous-system regulation and a reconnection to their own sense of self. She and Lisa found their common ground fast: their clients are the capable, empathetic people abusers tend to seek out.The first half is recognition. The "super traits" that make you exceptional at work and vulnerable in love, the boiled-frog way coercive control erodes you until you cannot remember what you like, and the particular shame of being the role model it happened to. Jordin explains how chronic stress shuts the body down, why reclaiming small pleasures and plain fun is part of recovery, and how much of the injustice, from the ex to a court that will not act, is real and worth being angry about.The second half is the toolkit. Feel and finish your own feelings rather than suppressing them or projecting them (she spends real time on a simple feelings wheel, because the word she hears most is "overwhelmed"). Use the watchdog, possum, and wise owl to get back to your thinking brain. Stop overexplaining. And train regulation when you are calm, through tiny repeatable practices like a skincare routine or the lotion challenge, so that when your ex shows up at the door to bait you, you can bring yourself back down. She closes on where to find her and a worksheet to start.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy "super traits" like empathy and loyalty make you excellent at work and easy to targetWhy emotional baiting is designed to trigger your nervous system, and how not to take the hookThe watchdog, possum, and wise owl: getting back to your thinking brain before you respondWhy overexplaining to someone intent on misunderstanding you always backfiresHow to validate and complete your own feelings instead of suppressing or projecting themWhy you can't control the ex, the court, or the system, and where your power actually isNervous-system regulation you practice alone, so you have it when the baiting startsSmall pleasure practices (like the "lotion challenge") that turn the stress response back down⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Protecting your energy when co-parenting with an abusive ex 3:00 "Super traits," and why capable people don't see the abuse 7:00 The boiled frog: how coercive control erodes you slowly 11:00 Losing yourself, and the shame of "you of all people" 14:00 Stress, the body, and reclaiming what you actually like 19:00 The power of fun, and forgetting who you are 21:00 A real co-parenting case: baiting, boundaries, and injustice 25:00 Feeling your feelings instead of managing everyone else's 28:00 Watchdog, possum, wise owl, and why overexplaining backfires 31:00 Completing the emotional cycle, and getting your power back 39:00 Regulation you train alone, the lotion challenge, and finding JordinKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

There's a moment most people in our community know well. Your phone lights up with a message from your ex. Or you're sitting in the parking lot outside the courthouse. Or you're on the phone with your attorney and your voice starts shaking.You know the response you want to give. You know the person you want to be in that moment. And then something happens — a thought spiral, a surge of adrenaline, a reaction you didn't plan — and afterward, you're sitting there wondering what just happened.That's not a character flaw. That's dysregulation. And it is absolutely something you can learn to change.Our guest today, Bonnie Butler, knows this from two directions: as someone who lived through her own version of emotional chaos — adopting six traumatized teenagers at once after years of fostering — and as a certified emotional regulation coach who has helped hundreds of clients transform the way they respond to stress, conflict, and the impossible situations life throws at them.This conversation with Lisa is one of those episodes where you'll want to stop and take notes. Or maybe you'll just find yourself nodding along, because finally someone is naming what you've been experiencing.Timestamps:00:00 — Opening: the problem of knee-jerk reactions with a toxic ex01:20 — Bonnie defines emotional regulation in plain language03:45 — The pause technique: interrupting the thought spiral with a physical cue07:10 — Why holding your breath makes rational thought impossible09:30 — Bonnie introduces herself: from overwhelmed foster/adoptive mom to regulation coach14:00 — The turning point: hitting a wall and learning the hard way18:20 — Why no one ever teaches us to manage our emotions21:40 — Her 12-week program and what transformation actually looks like25:00 — Why clients resist the tools at first — and what happens when they try anyway29:15 — Self-regulation explained: what it feels like when you've got it33:00 — Co-regulation: how your state spreads to everyone around you37:20 — The heartbreaking thing that happens when kids try to regulate their parents40:45 — How modeling regulation teaches your kids to regulate themselves43:00 — "Name it to tame it": why naming an emotion is the first step to releasing it46:15 — "The anxiety I'm feeling" vs. "my anxiety": a small shift, a big door48:30 — Meet Jim: how one client made friends with their anxiety to stop being controlled by it51:00 — Our thoughts are not facts — and you don't have to keep every thought you have54:20 — The thought closet: choosing what you keep and what you let go57:00 — Change, loss, and grief — why healing always has a harder side01:01:00 — "Paddles in the canoe": taking back the steering wheel of your life01:04:30 — What you focus on grows: the profound shift in how Bonnie saw her own life01:08:00 — From "what might have been" to "what could be"01:12:00 — How to connect with BonnieConnect with Bonnie Butler:Website & booking: bonniebutlercoaching.comInstagram: @bonniebutlercoachingFacebook: Bonnie Butler CoachingEmail: [email protected]#EmotionalRegulation #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #CoParentingHelp #NarcissistEx #DivorceCoach #BonnieButler #BeenThereGotOut

If your spouse owns a business — or if you co-own one together — your divorce just got significantly more complicated. The business isn't just a job. It's potentially a marital asset, a hidden income source, and a leverage point all at once. And if your ex controls the books? You may have no idea what it's actually worth.In this episode, we sit down with Sara Nanchanatt, a forensic accountant and founder of SN Forensics in New York City, to break down exactly what a business valuation is, why it matters so much in divorce, and what you can actually do — right now, and often for free — to start building your financial picture even when your ex isn't cooperating.About Sara Nanchanatt:Sara Nanchanatt is a forensic accountant and the founder of SN Forensics, a forensic accounting firm based in New York City that works remotely with clients across the United States. Sara and her team specialize in divorce-related financial analysis, including business valuations, income available for support calculations, and uncovering financial manipulation by business-owning spouses. Sara brings a practical, cost-conscious approach to forensic accounting — her firm offers multiple levels of service, from streamlined "indication of value" analyses used in mediation all the way to full court-ready expert reports. Her goal is always to make sure that whatever you spend on financial analysis actually makes sense given the value of what's at stake.TIMESTAMPS:00:00 - Introduction: Business and divorce — why it's uniquely complicated01:20 - Sara introduces herself and SN Forensics02:05 - When one spouse doesn't have access to the business financials: what to do03:10 - The "check your mail" strategy for identifying unknown financial accounts03:45 - What IRS tax transcripts are, how to get them, and why they matter05:00 - What a business valuation is and why courts care about it05:50 - How forensic accountants identify income hidden in business expenses06:40 - "Instant poverty syndrome": when the business mysteriously loses money before divorce07:30 - What happens when tax fraud surfaces in a divorce proceeding08:20 - Using business valuations as leverage to push your ex toward settlement09:10 - Service businesses and the "discount for lack of marketability"09:50 - Free spousal labor in a business — and why it may not protect you in court11:00 - Types of valuation: back of the envelope, indication of value, and full expert report12:00 - How to find Sara Nanchanatt and SN ForensicsConnect with Sara Nanchanatt:🌐 Website: snforensics.com 📸 Instagram: @snforensics (brand new — reach out directly with questions)📸 Follow BTGO on Instagram: @been_there_got_out 📖Read our blog: BeenThereGotOut.com/blog#DivorceFinances #BusinessValuationDivorce #ForensicAccountant #HiddenAssets #HighConflictDivorce #DivorceStrategy #CoOwningBusinessDivorce #InstantPovertySyndrome #DivorceCoach #FinancialAbuse #NarcissisticAbuse #DivorceAdvice #BeenThereGotOut

Sara Vandenburg brings a perspective you won't find anywhere else: she's both a highly credentialed therapist specializing in childhood sexual abuse AND a survivor who has done the deep healing work to talk about her own experience "like the weather." In this profoundly important conversation with Lisa Johnson, Sara shares insights that could literally save children's lives and transform families.Why Sara's voice matters: As someone who experienced incest by both biological parents over an eight-year period and has trained extensively in trauma therapy (LCSW Supervisor, Certified Sex Addiction Therapist, Brain Spotting certified), Sara understands both the clinical realities and the lived experience of familial sexual abuse. Her ability to discuss her own trauma with complete peace demonstrates what's possible with proper therapeutic support.This interview offers guidance no other resource provides - the intersection of professional expertise, personal recovery, and practical strategies for parents navigating the most difficult situations imaginable in high-conflict custody cases.What You'll Learn:✅ How one in three girls and one in ten boys experience childhood sexual abuse✅ Why incest may occur in one in ten households (and why it's severely underreported)✅ The critical difference between sexual abuse by anyone vs. abuse within families✅ Sara's concept of the "elephant in the room" - why untreated trauma affects your children✅ How family secrets travel through generations even when children don't know the details✅ The neuroscience behind why stored trauma in your body creates vulnerability in your kids✅ A powerful story of three-generational disclosure and healing✅ How to create an environment where children feel safe telling you anything✅ Why your reaction to small disclosures determines whether children will share bigger concerns✅ What brain spotting therapy is and how it releases stored trauma from the body✅ How brain spotting differs from EMDR (both use bilateral brain stimulation)✅ The importance of finding therapists who understand your trauma doesn't define you✅ Age-appropriate language for teaching body safety to children as young as 4-5✅ Why pornography exposure at ages 8-9 means earlier conversations are essential✅ Documentation strategies when you notice behavioral changes in your child✅ How to distinguish between patterns and isolated incidents✅ Understanding healthy shame (humanity, humility, responsibility)✅ Understanding healthy guilt (values and amends)✅ What complete healing looks like - being able to discuss trauma matter-of-factly✅ Why waiting until children are 25+ is often best for certain disclosuresAbout Sara Vandenburg, LCSW-S: Sara Vandenburg is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker Supervisor in Texas and Licensed Clinical Social Worker in Hawaii with specialized training in treating familial sexual abuse and trauma. Her credentials include:- Licensed Clinical Social Worker Supervisor (Texas)- Licensed Clinical Social Worker (Hawaii)- Certified Sex Addiction Therapist- Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor- Certified in Brain Spotting (advanced somatic therapy)Sara's micro-niche is familial sexual abuse, and she offers counseling, coaching, and energy healing services through her practice. Her forthcoming book, "Choosing to Love Again: Overcoming the Kind of Betrayal That Nobody Talks About," provides 60% personal memoir and 40% clinical guidance with experiential exercises for healing from profound betrayal.📚 RESOURCES & CONTACT INFORMATION:Sara Vandenburg:Website: tonalliservices.comServices offered: Counseling, coaching, energy healingBook a free complimentary conversation to explore working togetherUpcoming book: "Choosing to Love Again: Overcoming the Kind of Betrayal That Nobody Talks About" (2026 release)

Making critical decisions in high-conflict divorce when you can barely trust your own judgment? This interview is essential viewing. After experiencing gaslighting, manipulation, and betrayal in a toxic relationship, many people struggle to trust their instincts—especially when the stakes are highest. Should you push for a custody evaluation? Is your ex really alienating the kids, or are you being paranoid? How do you read the Guardian ad Litem? What if you're wrong about everything? Strategic intuition expert Jock Brocas—who used intuitive intelligence to stay alive in military operations and high-risk security situations—shares practical techniques for cutting through fear and confusion to make sound decisions when everything is on the line. This conversation goes far beyond typical "trust your gut" advice. You'll learn pattern recognition techniques, box breathing for high-stakes court situations, and how to distinguish between fear-based panic and genuine intuitive warning signs. These are military-grade tools adapted for family court survival. Perfect for anyone facing custody evaluations, court hearings, mediation with a difficult ex, or any high-conflict situation where you need clarity but fear is clouding your judgment. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:✓ Strategic intuitive intelligence: Combining your experiences, training, and natural intuition✓ Why fear gives you the wrong signals exactly when you need accuracy most✓ Pattern recognition for identifying your ex's manipulation tactics✓ How to tell if it's genuine intuition or just anxiety/ego✓ Box breathing: Military technique for staying calm in court or evaluations✓ The power of "the pause" before responding to provocations✓ Simple practices that train your mind to recognize signals vs. noise✓ Why going silent is your superpower in high-conflict situations ABOUT JOCK BROCAS:Jock Brocas brings a unique combination of military intelligence, high-risk security experience, and spiritual research to the question of how we make critical decisions under pressure. With 25+ years as a professional medium and extensive work in executive protection and undercover operations, Jock now works with lawyers, scientists, and professionals on strategic intuition. He's completing a master's in psychology (PhD starting October) and founded Help4Lawyer to support legal professionals in high-stakes cases. Author of "Powers of the Sixth Sense." LIKE this video if it helped you see your situation more clearly. SUBSCRIBE for weekly expert guidance on high-conflict divorce. COMMENT: What decision are you facing right now where you need better intuition? #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyEvaluation #FamilyCourt #StrategicIntuition #DivorceStrategy #ToxicCoParent #CourtPreparation #GuardianAdLitem #CustodyBattle #IntuitiveIntelligence

Losing someone you love does not usually make you question whether the relationship was real. Betrayal takes the memories with it. Dr. Debi Silber's study participants told her, unanimously, that this is the difference: betrayal feels chosen, so the whole self goes with it, and the healing has to be built differently as a result.Dr. Debi Silber is the founder and CEO of the PBT Institute, PBT standing for post betrayal transformation, and she has been coaching in health, wellness and personal development for over three decades. Her research began after two betrayals of her own, one within her family and one from her husband a few years later. She looked for a book or a program that addressed what she was living through, found nothing that fit, and enrolled in a PhD program to study it herself while raising four children and running a practice. She has since written several books on the subject and now certifies coaches, therapists and other practitioners in her model.In this episode Debi lays out the three findings from that research. That betrayal is a distinct kind of trauma, because unlike grief it is experienced as deliberate, which takes rejection, abandonment, belonging, worthiness and trust down with it. That there is a recognizable cluster of physical, mental and emotional symptoms afterward, which she named post betrayal syndrome and which does not resolve on its own with time. And that recovery runs through five stages in a predictable order, with a known set of moves for getting from each one to the next.She also walks through the window of willingness, her scale for what a betrayer offers once they are caught: full ownership at one end, an excuse next, blame aimed back at you after that, and flat denial at the far end. She and Lisa spend time on stage three, survival, where most people put down roots because it feels so much better than the shock that came before it, and on what changes at stage four when someone stops waiting for the other person to make it right. They close on trust, and on why rebuilding trust in your own perception and your own decisions has to come before any question about trusting anyone else. Lisa shares her own path through it, and where she landed.As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.🎓 What you'll learnWhy betrayal is a different kind of trauma from grief, and what it does to self-trustThe window of willingness: four ways a betrayer responds, and what each leaves youWhy "I did it because you" is where the window closes, and why none of it is yours to carryPost betrayal syndrome: the physical, mental and emotional symptoms that cluster togetherWhy time on its own doesn't heal betrayal, and what deliberate healing involves insteadThe five stages, and why stage three feels like recovery when it isn'tWhat people find themselves outgrowing on the way to stage fourWhy rebuilding trust starts with your own judgment and perception, not the other person⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 What betrayal is, and why the depth of trust changes the damage 2:00 Why Debi went and got a PhD to study it 4:00 Finding one: betrayal is its own kind of trauma 5:30 Why the support is different, and why people hide it 8:00 The window of willingness: four responses, four very different futures 11:00 Betrayal is a choice, not a mistake 13:00 Finding two: post betrayal syndrome, and why time doesn't do the work 19:00 Finding three: the five stages, and the four-legged table 22:00 Stage three: survival, and why people put down roots there 25:30 Stages four and five: a new normal, and who comes with you 28:30 The trust misconception, and rebuilding self-trust firstKeep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 The PBT Institute: https://thepbtinstitute.com/About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

Is your child struggling with your separation or divorce? Wondering if they need professional help? Licensed play therapist Jenny Hornby joins Lisa to discuss the critical signs that children need therapeutic support during high-conflict divorce - and why getting help for yourself might be even more important.In this essential conversation, you'll discover when therapy becomes necessary, what different therapeutic approaches can offer, and how to find the right mental health professional for your family's specific situation. Jenny shares expert insights on play therapy, EMDR for trauma processing, and why the "oxygen mask principle" applies to parents navigating custody battles.Whether you're just starting separation proceedings or deep into a custody battle, this conversation provides the guidance you need to support your child's emotional wellbeing while taking care of yourself too.🎯 WHO THIS IS FOR: Parents navigating high-conflict divorce or custody disputes who want to protect their children's mental health and get practical guidance on therapeutic support options.💡 WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:00:00 - Introduction: Helping kids through parental conflict00:27 - How common is post-separation parental conflict?01:25 - Signs your child is experiencing trauma from divorce01:59 - Why "reorganization" matters for children02:54 - Should every child in divorce see a therapist?04:30 - What to look for: When professional help becomes necessary05:42 - Why parents need therapy as much as kids do07:23 - The airplane oxygen mask principle explained08:45 - How your emotional state impacts your children10:12 - Why kids can "see" more than you think11:48 - Your child's heightened sensitivity during conflict13:16 - What parentification means in divorce situations15:03 - How children fill emotional voids16:42 - Warning signs your child is becoming your support system18:28 - Why kids blame themselves for parental struggles20:15 - The danger of children taking on adult roles22:07 - Play therapy explained: What happens in sessions24:33 - Age-appropriate therapeutic approaches26:18 - Why play is the "language" of childhood28:45 - EMDR therapy for processing divorce trauma31:22 - How EMDR works: The science behind bilateral stimulation33:58 - Different EMDR techniques (eye movement, tapping, music)36:14 - When EMDR is most effective for children38:42 - How to locate qualified play therapists and EMDR specialists40:17 - The EMDRIA directory resource41:53 - Psychology Today as a search tool43:28 - The importance of therapeutic "fit"45:06 - The "three session rule" before making a decision47:22 - What to do when therapy isn't working after months49:11 - Lauren Barnett's therapist matchmaking approach51:38 - The "favorite teacher" technique for finding the right match53:55 - Why personality compatibility matters more than credentials alone55:42 - Jenny's children's book: "Made for This"57:18 - Using stories to start difficult conversations58:50 - Final advice: It really does start with you60:05 - Wrap-up and how to connect with Jenny📚 RESOURCES MENTIONED:EMDRIA (EMDR International Association) directory: emdria.orgPsychology Today therapist finderJenny Hornby's book "Made for This" (children's book about facing fears)Instagram: @MissJennyBooksWebsite: MissJennyBooks.com👥 ABOUT JENNY HORNBY:Jenny Hornby is a licensed counselor in Virginia, clinical supervisor, and specialist in both play therapy and EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). She works with children ages 4 and up, providing individual therapy, family counseling, and parenting support. Jenny is also a children's book author, using narratives to help kids process difficult emotions and experiences.📖 RELATED RESOURCES FROM BEEN THERE GOT OUT:"Wh

🎯 "What does a custody evaluator actually look for?"If you're terrified of your upcoming custody evaluation, attorney Tracy Galloway has the answer—and it might not be what you think.Tracy has been a Massachusetts child custody and divorce attorney for over 30 years. She started at the Department of Children and Families working child welfare and abuse/neglect cases before transitioning to private practice in 1998.And here's what makes her perspective unique: Tracy does custody evaluations herself."I need to see that the person in front of me is being proportionate about their experience, but also able to hold in their mind at the same time that a judge needs facts and what's going to be best for a child," Tracy explains. "That's a lot of plates to hold at the same time."This conversation demystifies the custody evaluation process, explains the different types of GALs and what they're actually looking for, and provides practical strategies for presenting yourself credibly—even when discussing domestic violence.What You'll Learn:✅ What custody evaluations are and when they're ordered✅ Category E GALs (clinicians) vs. Category F GALs (attorneys)—and why the difference matters✅ Does it matter who pays the GAL? (No—and here's why)✅ Substituted judgment GALs: When child's therapy privilege is at issue✅ How to talk about domestic violence: "It's not the what, it's the how"✅ What "proportionate communication" means to evaluators✅ Why credibility matters more than having all the answers✅ Does confirmation bias exist? (Should you meet the GAL first?)✅ What evaluators want to see: openness, cooperation, child-focus✅ The two things to do TODAY if evaluation is coming✅ How to prepare: Brief, informative, factual email✅ Why anger management and exercise are critical✅ "You met that person, you made a baby with that person—this is what you have to work with"✅ Tracy's passionate, direct approach to helping clients take responsibilityAbout Tracy Galloway:Attorney Tracy Galloway has been practicing Massachusetts child custody and divorce law for over 30 years. Her roots are in litigation for the Department of Children and Families, handling child welfare, abuse, and neglect cases. Since transitioning to private practice in 1998, she's honed her focus specifically to divorce—"Because it's a very, it's its own model and it ends up with the happy result at the end of a divorce." Tracy also conducts custody evaluations herself, giving her unique dual perspective as both advocate and evaluator. She's the founder of Divorce Bootcamp, an online coaching business born from frustration that there isn't more accessible information available in multiple formats (video, not just text) for people navigating divorce. She offers free and low-cost resources, coaching, and "fresh talk" to anyone who needs it—literally giving her cell phone number and offering 5 free minutes to anyone who texts.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS:00:00 - Introduction: Demystifying custody evaluations02:10 - What is a custody evaluation and when is it ordered?03:58 - Category E (clinician) vs. Category F (attorney) GALs05:47 - Tracy's background: DCF to private practice to Divorce Bootcamp07:06 - How to talk about domestic violence to evaluators07:58 - Proportionate communication: Holding multiple plates at once09:45 - Credibility is everything: They need to believe you12:30 - Does it matter who pays the GAL? (Bias concerns)15:20 - Substituted judgment: Child therapy privilege evaluation18:40 - Does confirmation bias exist in custody evaluations?21:15 - What evaluators look for: Openness, cooperation, child-focus24:50 - Documentation: When and how to provide materials28:35 - Preparing for home visits and child observations32:20 - The importance of routine and stability36:10 - How long do evaluations take?<

🎯 "Mediation? With a NARCISSIST? Are you crazy?"If that's your reaction, you're not alone. Most people in high-conflict divorce assume mediation is pointless when dealing with someone who has a personality disorder or active addiction.But according to Liz Merrill—who spent 20 years married to a narcissist scientist before becoming a divorce mediator herself—it's worth trying. And here's why:"A surprisingly high percentage of people who come with high conflict divorces get through the mediation process successfully without having to resort to litigation," Liz explains. "Because by the time they start mediating and working through and understanding what their options are, they kind of realize that they're not likely to get a better resolution by litigating."Even if mediation doesn't result in settlement, you gain something invaluable: information."Keep your mouth shut and listen to what they're having to say and encourage them to talk," Liz advises for that crucial first session. "You will learn a lot about what's important to them, what they are thinking about, what their strategy might be. And that's all information that you can use in the future, even if you're not using it right now. And that's worth a lot."This conversation reveals why mediation is always worth trying, how to prepare strategically, what you can realistically expect, and why sometimes the "difficult" partner actually comes to mediation thinking they're smarter than everyone else—which creates an opportunity.What You'll Learn:✅ Why high-conflict parties often come to mediation (thinking they can "bamboozle")✅ The role of a CDFA (Certified Divorce Financial Analyst) in keeping things factual✅ How facts, law, and math create a limited range of outcomes regardless of process✅ Why it's "absolutely always worth trying" mediation (even if only costs a few thousand)✅ The first session strategy: Keep your mouth shut and gather information✅ What you can't mediate (hint: anything that happened in the past)✅ How to prepare for mediation: agenda, goals, realistic expectations✅ Why you shouldn't tell your mediator your "whole sad story"✅ Strategic approach: Easy wins first to build goodwill vs. tackle hard stuff✅ How to use what you learned in session one to inform session two✅ Avoiding "barstool counsel" (Facebook groups, well-meaning friends)✅ Second Saturday workshops: Free divorce education for women✅ Why emotions are "on fire" and how professionals help manage them✅ When Liz's daughters asked "Mom, can we get divorced?"About Liz Merrill:Liz Merrill, known as "the divorce whisperer," is a Colorado-based divorce mediator who spent 20 years in a marriage with a narcissist—a very successful research scientist considerably older than her. They had three daughters together and moved all over the world. "I thought I had to stay in this situation for my children and for my own safety and for my financial safety," Liz shares. When her daughters (all around mid-teens at the time) came to her and asked, "Mom, are we—can we get divorced? Why are we?" she realized she wasn't being brave by staying—she was scared. She filed that day. The divorce process was as horrible as she feared, requiring a loan to pay for it. She went from attorney to attorney trying to explain her situation, and "almost all of them were horrible to me. They were acting like I was the problem." This experience, combined with recognizing how badly the court system is set up for divorces (particularly for people in abusive marriages and domestic violence situations), caused her to shift careers midlife. She used her limited maintenance time to get mediation training and build her business. For seven years now, she's helped hundreds of couples navigate divorce, with her approach informed by lived experience of surviving high-conflict marriage. Her company is Open Space Mediat