Revenue Mind

From selling cars to two decades in SaaS, Nikki Ivey turned a writer’s love of words into a sales career—and a conviction that the people most skilled at moving others should be creating culture, not just complaining about it. A writer first, a LinkedIn Top Voice, and co-founder of SDRDefenders, Nikki joins Jolie to get honest about the parts of sales that don’t make the highlight reel: the wigs she spent years suppressing as the only Black woman in the room, the narratives that walk in before she does, and the extra work it takes to reach the same baseline of confidence a typical seller starts from. Along the way she reframes the meritocracy debate, separates structural exclusion from the interpersonal kind, and offers a way through the DEI backlash that asks nothing of your politics—only that you care how your behavior lands on someone else. Her throughline: you can criticize culture or you can create it, and sellers are built to create. Key Takeaways: • Three frameworks that explain her: words, wigs, and women in charge • “Put the wig on, girl”: the years she spent suppressing hair-as-accessory as the only Black woman in the room • Writing as a hard sales skill—“teach the computer to talk like you, not instead of you” • Mr. Nelson, the seventh-grade English teacher who handed out prompts asking kids who they think they are • How the isolation of 2020 spawned online sales communities: Thursday Night Sales, SDRDefenders, and the one she’s most proud of, Sales for the Culture • The “external ERG” that gave Black and brown sellers a place to be vulnerable when it was needed most • “Nothing happens until something gets sold”: why sellers underestimate their power over culture • The meritocracy trap: nobody asks for the ROI case on hiring the same young white male out of college • Structural vs. interpersonal exclusion—and why your interpersonal experience still counts • Do’s and don’ts vs. wills and won’ts: a path through the backlash that skips shame and asks only that you care how your behavior lands • Permission to say the clumsy thing—create the safe space, then grow in the same direction Links Nikki Ivey (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/nikki-ivey/ SDRDefenders (acquired by Pavilion): https://www.joinpavilion.com

Somewhere past 500 podcast episodes, hosting and guesting combined, and nobody had ever asked Richard Harris what talking about his mental health has cost him. Founder of The Harris Consulting Group, creator of N.E.A.T. Selling and author of The Seller’s Journey, Richard joins Jolie to trace it back to one morning in San Francisco when he woke up in the fetal position and physically could not move. What follows: the phone call to his mom, the sentence that kept him from getting on the plane, 20+ years with the same therapist, and imposter syndrome that shows up live on the recording. His throughline: you do you, and don’t be afraid to make the phone call. Key Takeaways • Imposter syndrome as a lifelong companion, and what to say to it in real time. • The San Francisco morning he woke up in the fetal position and could not move. • “If I do that, the city wins”: why he stayed, and how he found the therapist he kept for 20+ years. • Depression described as walking around with 10 pound weights on each leg. • What staying quiet cost him, and what talking about it has cost him since. • “I thought only crazy people took medication.” • Therapy in sprints: some things resolve in a session, some take six weeks. • Double chair work, literally switching seats to have the conversation with his father. • Why “whoever speaks first loses” means you asked the wrong question. • The beer with a friend who said “I don’t know what that feels like,” and why that wasn’t rejection. • His real cell number, handed out on air, and the reason nobody ever calls. Timestamps 00:00 Intro and welcome 00:35 What makes you you, beyond the title 03:00 Imposter syndrome, in the room, live 03:19 Anxiety, depression, and “why does anybody want to listen to me?” 05:21 Waiting for the other shoe to drop 07:01 “I’m gonna shut up now”: the phrase he uses in live deals 08:58 No deal closes without a compelling event. Neither does therapy. 09:23 San Francisco: waking up in the fetal position and calling his mom 12:16 Someone inside him pulling a string, holding his heart down 13:56 What staying quiet cost him, and what talking has cost him since 14:20 “I thought only crazy people took medication” 16:36 “I don’t know what I lost, but I think I’ve gained so much” 18:53 Therapy in sprints: some things take a session, some take six weeks 21:21 The box, the duct tape, and the back of the closet 22:00 Double chair work: the conversation with his father 23:47 “The happiest people I know go to therapy” 26:49 “There’s no question you can’t ask me” 27:56 Silence as a learned skill, not an instinct 29:01 Why “whoever speaks first loses” is the wrong game 29:47 The beer with Brian: “I don’t know what that feels like” 33:03 Letting people show up as they are 33:43 Where to find Richard, and his actual cell number Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Richard Harris (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/rharris415 Richard Harris (cell, he means it): 415-596-9149 The Harris Consulting Group: https://theharrisconsultinggroup.com The Seller’s Journey: https://thesellersjourney.co Surf and Sales: https://theharrisconsultinggroup.com/surf-and-sales-podcast/ Jolie Shapiro: http://linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro Revenue Mind: http://linkedin.com/company/revenuemind

From 15+ years in professional kitchens to two decades in sales, James Buckley has built Say What Sales—a personal brand rooted in one line: if you're a salesperson, we're the same person. Founder of Say What Sales and host of the daily sales show Sell Better, James joins Jolie to get honest about the parts that don't make the highlight reel: an addiction that shifted from hard drugs to food, a 2006 ER visit that had his family relocated from Miami to Tennessee within 48 hours, and the 3 a.m. gym routine that's kept him steady through a recent type 2 diabetes diagnosis. His throughline: resilience isn't a personality trait, it's a choice you make over and over. Key Takeaways • A type 2 diabetes diagnosis and a 70lb weight loss, done with no medication. • Addiction doesn't disappear, it just changes shape. • The case against group recovery: why AA and NA didn't work for him. • Comedy has a line, not because they aren't funny. • Corporate phrases banned from vocabulary: "circle back," "I'd love to." • Moving from Miami to Tennessee in 48 hours after an ER visit in 2006. • Resilience built through tough times makes sales rejection feel small. • Read on millennials, Gen Z, and the widening communication gap. • "They're not gonna be at your funeral." • Posting positivity even when he doesn't feel it and what he does to lift himself up. Timestamps 00:00 Intro and welcome 01:27 The type 2 diabetes diagnosis, and dropping 70 lbs with no medication 02:04 Addiction that shifted from hard drugs to food 02:53 The case against group recovery: what AA and NA got wrong for him 05:54 Who he is when the camera's off 07:36 Where he draws the line on humor 09:17 The corporate phrases banned from his vocabulary: "circle back," "I'd love to" 10:42 His origin story: 15 years as a cook, then door-to-door sales 12:45 The worst divorce, a blended family, and how Say What Sales was born 15:10 "Zero to hero": how resilience carried him through 17:18 Gen Z enters the workforce 17:48 "The last resilient generation" 23:15 Generational differences vs. generational trauma 26:17 His own history with cocaine and heroin, and a moderation trick he shared with a friend struggling with drinking (standard disclaimer applies) 29:51 The relapse after his father's death, and the decision that followed 31:26 Inside the 3 a.m. gym routine 32:13 ADHD, Ritalin, and the "wall of why" behind his content 34:02 The fence philosophy: reaching down, reaching up, never letting go 35:20 Job hopping, roots, and how staying put changed his career 36:33 "They're not gonna be at your funeral": parasocial relationships with creators 41:37 Posting positivity on the days he doesn't feel it 44:32 Where to find James Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It's how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links James Buckley (LinkedIn):https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamessaywhatsalesbuckley James Buckley (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/saywhatsales James Buckley (TikTok): https://www.tiktok.com/@saywhatsales Sell Better: https://sellbetter.xyz Jolie Shapiro: http://linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro Revenue Mind: http://linkedin.com/company/revenuemind

From one-and-done author to accidental evangelist for a better way to work, Freddie Laker has spent a decade building Chameleon Collective, a four-time Inc. 5000 “collective” where everyone gets to be the boss and share the risk instead of one person throwing themselves in the fire. Founder of Chameleon Collective and co-author of the bestselling Collective Capitalism, Freddie joins Jolie to get honest about the parts that don’t make the highlight reel: why he preaches “no one should carry it alone” and still grabs the stressful hot potato himself, what actually scares him about AI, and the on-mic existential crisis when he realized he might be the last person who should talk about work-life balance. His throughline: there’s opportunity in chaos, but only if you stop trying to carry it alone.   Key Takeaways • Collectivism runs on “we people,” not “me people,” so no one carries risk alone. • Collaboration is approaching zero unlocking a collective business model. • Help 10,000 companies form collectives than sell and sail off into retirement. • Introvert and extrovert at once: off the clock he’s a tinkerer who can’t sit still. • Controlling your own future without carrying the risk yourself.  • The system is broken, and collectivism is a way to make capitalism work. • The messy, in-flux moments are when new players make the biggest leaps. • The tech part about AI isn't scary, it's who gets left behind as wealth concentrates. • Learning to share the stressful hot potato vs. carrying it alone. • Dialing everything to eleven teaches you about (the lack of) work/life balance.   Timestamps 00:00 Intro and welcome 00:59 The book, and the story behind Collective Capitalism 01:11 “One and done”: the collective model and wanting to help 10,000 companies 03:24 Legacy over exit: paying it forward 04:05 Who he is when none of it’s in the room: the tinkerer behind the founder 06:46 If he could retire tomorrow: culinary school 08:06 “Eating is the only ritual of enjoyment that renews itself three times a day” 09:04 Where the drive came from: growing up around entrepreneurs 14:08 The book: what the old way of working was costing him 14:27 Why collectivism, and making capitalism work for everyone 17:34 Finding the gap, and how AI lowers the barrier for entrepreneurs 19:13 Opportunity in chaos 23:03 What actually scares him about AI 25:36 “No one should carry it alone”: what carries you, and can you let it 26:14 “We people,” not “me people,” and the hot potato he won’t hand off 29:08 Why asking for help is so hard 32:38 The on-mic existential crisis: admitting his balance is “rubbish” 34:34 The book becomes a bestseller: how much of his worth is riding on it 37:19 The builder’s confession: “moderation is not my strong suit” 39:20 Where to find Freddie Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Freddie Laker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/freddielaker Collective Capitalism: https://collectivecapitalism.org Chameleon Collective: https://chameleoncollective.com Jolie Shapiro: http://linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro Revenue Mind: http://linkedin.com/company/revenuemind

From the number one enterprise rep at Salesforce to a self-described "functioning addict" living a double life at the top of his game, Ian Koniak traces how a 20-year work-hard-play-hard grind nearly cost him his marriage and his family, and what it finally took to get sober. Founder and CEO of Untap Your Sales Potential, Ian joins Jolie to riff on the president's-club culture he lived and loved, why "the pain of staying the same has to be greater than the effort to change," the rock bottom that turned him around, and how honesty, faith, and recovery rebuilt a life he's actually proud of. His message for anyone white-knuckling a secret: pick your poison, there's a 12-step for it, and the opposite of addiction is connection. Key Takeaways • Ian was Salesforce's #1 enterprise rep while deep in addiction, and didn't think his life was unmanageable. • "Work hard, play hard" is a cycle: build up, build up, then blow up. • A functioning addict is still an addict: the sneaking and secrecy are the tell, not how often. • The real rock bottom wasn't a car crash or a stuck roller coaster: it was seeing the pain he'd caused someone he loves. • "The pain of staying the same has to be greater than the effort to change." • Honesty was the medicine: getting sober meant no more secrets, and the marriage got lighter for it. • Whatever your poison is (alcohol, weed, the phone, work), there's a 12-step for it. Start with the one that's unmanageable. • The opposite of addiction is connection: isolation and endless scrolling live on the same spectrum. • From greed and excess to service: his worth stopped riding on money and status. Timestamps 01:00 "What makes you you?": authenticity and the human struggle 02:00 A wild resume: Venezuela, Australia, and meeting his wife at a Tony Robbins firewalk 04:33 Chasing the thing that was available to him all along 05:00 Cross-addiction and the need to always be doing something (the new triathlon) 07:00 Closing the biggest deals of his life while falling apart: did anyone know? 08:00 The functioning addict: work hard, play hard, build up then blow up 11:50 President's Club and tech-bro culture, lived for 20 years 15:00 The opposite now: family man, faith, and getting baptized 18:00 How 12-step started the shift, and the values that came with it 22:00 Feeling "the addict" come on: restlessness, and the phone as the new numbing 24:00 Doom-scrolling, disconnection, and why the opposite of addiction is connection 27:00 The confessional: telling his wife everything 32:00 His car crash at 25 and the luck that let him walk away 35:00 "God shots" and finding purpose in the near-misses 40:00 The rock bottom, in his own words 42:00 What compulsive behavior actually is, and finding the rooms 43:00 The roller-coaster moment and the promise that changed everything 47:00 The year he kept the secret while coaching others 50:00 The day it all came out, and the scare that scared him sober 57:00 Honesty as the medicine, and a marriage that stayed 1:00:00 Baby Luke, the life he rebuilt, and where to find Ian Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Ian Koniak: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iankoniak/ Untap Your Sales Potential: https://www.untapyoursalespotential.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From accidentally landing in addiction counseling with “no life jacket” to building a whole career on one radical idea, that people recover better when treatment isn’t a miserable experience, Master Addiction Counselor Amber Hollingsworth traces how growing up surrounded by addiction shaped her relationship-first approach. Founder of Hope for Families Recovery Center and creator of the YouTube channel Put the Shovel Down, Amber joins Jolie to riff on why calling herself the client’s “defense attorney” instead of their probation officer earns more trust than tough love, why there’s no bad reason to get sober, and why the driven, high-performing execs who can’t turn their brain off so often drink to do it. Her throughline: stop waiting for rock bottom. You can just put the shovel down. Key Takeaways • Not being in recovery herself became her edge: it forced her to listen deeper than most. • Whatever you grow up in feels normal: she didn’t name her own family’s addiction until she was in the field. • Counseling school barely covers addiction: one class, a couple of 12-step visits, then you’re on your own. • “Defense attorney,” not probation officer: be on the client’s side and trust follows. • Make treatment something people want to show up to (her teens got sober just to stay mentors). • There’s no bad reason to get sober: kids, marriage, even prison all count. • Drop the pressure to fix everyone: it’s why counselors burn out in ~5 years, and why she hasn’t. • Driven execs drink to shut their brain off: stop fighting your operating system instead of becoming someone else. • Ignore the doom stats: people beat this every day, and 10 tries is normal, not failure. • Stop waiting for rock bottom: put the shovel down before you burn every bridge. Timestamps 00:00 Intro / “Just take a breath” 00:38 “What makes you you?” 01:47 Not realizing she was a business owner until the first year’s tax bill 02:47 How she got into the field by accident: teacher to counselor to addiction program 03:30 Designing a teen addiction program with zero experience: “no life jacket, no nothing” 04:37 Growing up around addiction and never naming it 05:36 “Whatever you grow up in feels normal” + wishing for a better origin story 06:20 “Are you in recovery?”: the first question clients ask, and why not being in recovery became her edge 07:49 What counseling school actually teaches about addiction 08:20 Flying under the radar: building an IOP teens wanted to attend + the mentor program 09:42 How she got them to come back: “like them and they’ll like you back” 10:30 The “defense attorney” approach: on the client’s side, not their probation officer 11:25 Jolie’s IOP story and four and a half years sober 12:39 What brought Jolie to program: her rock bottom 14:29 There’s no bad reason to get sober 15:27 Clients who return across life stages: the goal is a good experience, not forever-sobriety 17:12 Comorbidity and having more than one addiction 18:07 Why counselors burn out (the 5-year lifespan) and how she drops the pressure 20:33 Burnout tips: diagnose the real source, then reframe 21:26 Her niche now: businessmen who drink and driven A-type professionals 22:37 Stigma vs. ambivalence: what actually keeps people from getting help 24:16 The non-alcoholic / mocktail movement 25:36 One thing to tell someone in active addiction: ignore the negative stats 26:43 “One day at a time” and meetings as a refresh 28:01 What high performers most need to hear 28:30 Why driven people drink: fighting your own “operating system” 30:16 Square peg, round hole: work with who you are 30:57 Where to find Amber + the meaning of “Put the Shovel Down” Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Amber Hollingsworth / Put the Shovel Down: https://www.youtube.com/@PutTheShovelDown Hope for Families Recovery Center: https://www.familyrecoveryacademy.online/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

A 600kg horse landed on Hacia Atherton while she was training for international dressage. What followed: six months in the hospital, 30-plus procedures, and 117 days of work just to stand for ten seconds. She studied for her CPA exams from a hospital bed, went on to earn a master’s in positive psychology, founded an organization fighting for women in the trades, and wrote a book about the billions hiding in plain sight in workplace culture. She and Jolie get into the emotional cage the Industrial Revolution built, why telling men they’re allowed to feel means nothing without the tools to do it, and why belonging, not titles or diversity programs, is what actually moves the needle. Key Takeaways • 1,300 lbs of horse, 30+ procedures, six months in hospital. • 117 days of work just to stand for ten seconds. • Grit got her through; curiosity unlocked the recovery. • She left rehab early for a CPA exam; they called a psychiatrist. • Breath was the one thing she controlled. It became her anchor. • Factory-era economics built the tough-it-out archetype we still live. • We told men they could feel, but never gave them the tools. • Disengagement costs the world ~9% of global GDP. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:17 Law, and a pony named Honey Babe 02:40 The accident: 600kg in slow motion 04:10 Six months, 30+ procedures, and dehumanization 09:43 A PhD in turning trauma into triumph 10:11 CPA exams from a hospital bed 13:17 The book as anchor, breath as control 17:57 Emotional pain is as real as a broken arm 21:41 The billion-dollar blind spot in culture 26:21 Masculine vs. feminine leadership 33:05 The SAD acronym and why words carry weight 34:09 Belonging as the real fix 39:18 Outro: find Hacia and her book Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Hacia Atherton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haciaatherton/ Empowered Women in Trades: https://ewitrades.com/ The Billion Dollar Blind Spot: https://www.haciaatherton.com/billion-dollar-blindspot Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From layoffs and COVID teaching her what’s actually controllable, to a husband’s truth bomb that finally broke a years-long pattern of “riding it out,” Heather Bell traces the line from people-pleasing grit to self-responsibility at work and at home. She and Jolie riff on why mental health is a revenue metric, not a side quest; what it actually took to land a job with her own list of non-negotiables. And why “they just hire good people” is the only diversity strategy that’s ever worked for her. Key Takeaways • Layoffs and a shifting economy aren’t a referendum on your grit. • Grit is the #1 thing to look for, because it can’t be taught. • Write down non-negotiables before any job search begins. • Burnout’s long runway: pumping in her car, sleepless nights, still going out to sell. • Her husband naming the pattern broke years of “riding it out.” • Financial success means little if you’re not present for it. • Being wanted because she’s a woman is a red flag, not a win. • Send the prospect elsewhere if you can’t actually help them. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 00:48 Why mental health matters in revenue 02:29 What makes you you? Blue-collar roots, hard work, family 03:26 Giving her kids a better life 04:24 COVID’s silver lining: flexibility and presence 05:49 Did she always want kids? 07:50 The pressure on women to do it all 09:24 Finding the right room: non-negotiables and a 50% women team 12:18 Diversity that doesn’t need to be talked about 13:41 What women bring to sales: patience and real listening 14:45 Solving the problem over making the sale 15:20 Give first, without expectation 17:06 Ego, scarcity, and letting an opportunity go 17:45 How she got into sales 18:43 Parents’ lessons and the layoff that reset her 24:29 Can you teach grit? 26:51 Her most burned-out seasons 30:13 Getting back to happy 32:42 Leading with expectations and psychological safety 34:44 How bad bosses shape you 36:43 The boss who gave her a month’s heads-up 37:59 Forces you can’t beat: AI, economy, layoffs 40:03 Ride with the unexpected 41:37 Where to find Heather Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Heather Bell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherbell-sales/ Vector: https://www.vector.co/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From breaking down the “polished corporate box” to rebuilding identity through faith, community, and self-responsibility, Anthony Morell shares what helped him move from people-pleasing to authenticity: online and off. He and Jolie riff on why healing work is heavy (but worth it), how to catch burnout before it catches you, and what Anthony’s “hard season” operating manual looks like: get fed, get out of the house, move your body, and don’t isolate. Key Takeaways • Faith as a filter for decisions, relationships, and healing. • Community > isolation: be for others what you didn’t always have growing up. • Authenticity is less exhausting than managing perception. • People-pleasing breaks when you take responsibility for your own wellbeing. • From external approval to internal conviction (and values-led living). • Daily anchors slip, isolation increases, heaviness compounds when burned out. • The work you do when it’s hard builds the person you become. • Hard-season playbook: treat + fresh air + movement + real conversations. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 00:22 LinkedIn, consistency, and building community over chasing the algorithm 01:23 “What makes you you?” 04:13 Breaking the attachment to image (the “polished box” corporate taught us) 06:44 People-pleasing → self-responsibility (and what fatherhood changed) 09:42 Finding your voice on LinkedIn: professional, but not performative 12:42 Jolie’s recovery journey and the reality of rewiring your brain 16:55 Values: faith, community, family, generosity, and depth over small talk 20:23 Dream community: hard truths, accountability, and diverse perspectives 25:33 Early burnout signals: (habits, isolation, heaviness) 34:16 Stay grounded when the ground is shaking 35:58 Operating manual for Anthony in a hard season: treats, get out, work out 42:52 Where to find Anthony Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Anthony Morell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-m-78a1b6323/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Rob LoCascio (founder/former CEO of LivePerson) joins Jolie to riff on purpose, grit, and what it really takes to build for the long haul, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. From sleeping on an Ikea couch during LivePerson’s earliest days (and still keeping the couch as a reminder) to building two new AI startups, Rob shares why “certainty + control” can quietly destroy founders, and how reconnecting with God helps him cut through the noise, lead with humility, and build technology that brings families closer (instead of pulling them apart). Key Takeaways • The couch years: two years living in an office • Helping at a homeless shelter reframed “feeling sorry for yourself.” • Grit is in everyone if you’re willing to be somewhere uncertain enough to grow. • Spiritual practice can elevate the conversation beyond your own head. • Building products that strengthen community/connection, not just utility. • Kids + screens: the “scroll” is engineered addiction; creation is the antidote. • KID’s startup philosophy: kids use AI to create stories, art, and music with parents. • If AI is getting “smarter,” it’s often because we keep feeding it our knowledge. • Certainty, control, and ego, and why letting go doesn’t kill ambition. • Rob’s deck-of-cards reality check: gratitude beats comparison. • The closing reminder: don’t follow your life, lead it. Timestamps 00:00 Intro / full-circle LivePerson moment 01:24 “What makes you, you?” 02:50 The “never quit” trait, and how it shows up in business 03:14 Sleeping on the couch: the early LivePerson story 05:45 Therapy + volunteering: perspective, humility, and resilience 07:13 Can grit be taught? 09:05 “Put people in uncertainty and they’ll adapt” 09:37 New chapter: two startups + young kids + building again 10:30 Cutting through the noise: getting closer to God 11:26 Jolie’s 12-step lens: higher power as connection 14:03 Purpose, community, and the question Rob couldn’t answer before 15:12 Why these two companies feel more “purpose-aligned” 17:47 LivePerson vs. now: utility vs. human connection 18:00 KID and “Bring Back the Bond” 19:53 The iPad-at-3AM story: screens as a drug for kids 20:04 How KID aims to change screen time 22:38 “Own your intelligence”: personal AI and reclaiming your data 24:50 AI safety and why kid-first design matters 25:48 COPPA + building for children the right way 27:25 Obsessive founders and addictive personalities 29:22 The deadliest founder traits: certainty + control + ego 30:56 Learning it the hard way 33:59 “There’s a CEO above you”: surrendering control without losing ambition 38:46 The deck-of-cards analogy: gratitude over comparison 41:30 Social media illusions + dot-com déjà vu 43:31 Lead it. Don’t follow it. 45:05 Where to find Rob Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Robert LoCascio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rlocascio/ LivePerson: https://www.liveperson.com/ KID: https://www.kidco.ai/ Uare.ai: https://www.uare.ai/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

In this episode, Jolie Shapiro sits down with Meghann (the self-described “Sales Witch,” now Sales Magic with Meg) to unpack what happens when high performance turns into survival mode, and what it looks like to rebuild from burnout without abandoning ambition. They talk about intuition, tarot, somatics + chakras, and why the most “professional” thing you can do in sales (and on LinkedIn) is stop pretending you’re a robot. Meghann also shares a practical framework for “healthy hustle”: intention first, tactics second, so your sales process aligns with who you actually want to be. Key Takeaways • Meghann embraces her “Sales Witch” identity as her real edge. • Burnout can hit as a moment (not just months): shutdown, numbness, heaviness. • Body signals are data: stress can show up physically in different ways. • Somatic + energetic frameworks can help as mirrors for what’s under the surface. • Tarot as archetypes: the “death” card as endings → new beginnings. • Burnout recovery can take years: rewiring how you work isn’t a quick fix. • SaaS culture rewards the mask: “push through” becomes a slippery slope. • Industry problem: “okay” gets called “excellent” without real feedback. • Healthy hustle is intention-led: values/archetype → mindsets → tactics. Timestamps 00:00 Intro + meeting after connecting online 01:15 “What makes you, you?” → the Sales Witch identity shift 03:18 Sales origins + how “Sales Witch” came to life 04:40 From quota to training (Sandler, MEDDIC, enablement) 08:51 Burnout: why we don’t see it until we hit it 10:30 Meghann’s burnout moment + leave of absence 13:00 Jolie’s burnout signals + recalibrating expectations 15:28 Somatics + chakras: where stress lives in the body 19:15 Tarot + the “death card” year: endings as doorways 21:48 Healing tools, dissociation, and why recovery isn’t fast 27:25 SaaS truth: feedback, pipeline honesty, and “okay” culture 33:06 Hustle culture as a slippery slope 38:35 Healthy hustle example: intention → tactics 49:53 LinkedIn framework: value vs growth vs brand 56:21 Where to find Meghann Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Meghann Misiak: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megmisiak/ Path to President's Club: https://www.pathtopresidentsclub.com/ Sandler Training: https://www.sandler.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From a 93‑day Outward Bound in the Colorado Rockies to hiding her sexuality at work and now holding impossible DEI conversations as Chief Heart Officer at VaynerX, Claude Silver shares why being yourself at work is both risky and necessary: change the song in your head, remove shame, add tenderness, and stop asking humans to act like machines. Key Takeaways • Back‑nine season: joyful service, big heart, total goofball. • Wilderness wake‑up: 93‑day Outward Bound → “get another song in your head.” • Dyslexia turned from school pain into one of her superpowers. • Hiding that she was gay at work led to shame and a fragmented life. • Emotional optimism: feelings as data for hard DEI + culture conversations. • The weight of “impossible” topics (racism, Oct 7) as a white Jewish leader. • Macro: remove shame, add tenderness; let people be “normally messy” at work. • Goal isn’t “I love myself” overnight, just helping people get to “I like myself.” Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:20 “Who are you in this season?”, back nine, joyful service, goofball 02:10 Taurus energy, love of human behavior, and being Chief Heart Officer 03:30 Telling Gary V she’d write a book & why Be Yourself at Work exists 05:30 93‑day Outward Bound story & “you better get another song in your head” 09:05 Colorado / Leadville / Denver and mountain metaphors 10:40 Learning differences: dyslexia, dyscalculia, school pain → superpower 12:20 Abandoning herself by hiding she was gay at work; shame and a double life 18:01 Brutal DEI day: emotional optimism, accountability, and a hard convo. 24:50 The weight of “impossible” topics as a white Jewish leader 32:52 Macro vision: Helping people get to “I like myself.” 37:48 Where to find Claude Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Claude Silver: https://www.linkedin.com/in/casilver/ Be Yourself at Work: https://www.claudesilver.com/book VaynerX: https://vaynerx.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From “fourth child” dad and self-described Peter Pan to tech executive navigating LinkedIn doom scrolls and shifting markets, Ryan Barry shares how playfulness and discipline can coexist: keep your values simple (be kind, work hard, don’t be an asshole), protect your energy, and stay present enough to lead at work and at home without burning out. Key Takeaways • Simple family rulebook: find what makes you happy, work hard, don’t be an asshole. • Lower-middle-class roots = inclusivity, big table, relentless work ethic. • Hustle got him far, but unchecked hustle leads straight to burnout. • Boundaries are fluid: “WiFi’s broken” days, phone-free time, walks and hikes. • Limit the doom scroll: LinkedIn morning + night; learn more from real conversations. • Presence over pretending: if you can’t be fully there, step away. • Name the “flood”: walks, breathing, and simple meditation to reset (and teach his kids). Timestamps 00:00 Intro / “What makes you you?” 02:00 Peter Pan adulthood, fatherhood, and shifting priorities 06:00 Family values: happy, hardworking, and not being an asshole 09:30 Lower-middle-class upbringing, immigrant mom, construction-worker dad, inclusivity 14:00 Tech, LinkedIn doom scroll, and the comparison trap 18:30 Boundaries: WiFi-free Saturdays, nature, fewer meetings, more white space 23:00 Presence, energy, and how his mood impacts the whole company 27:30 Flood moments, ADHD, anxiety tools, and meditating with his son 31:30 Executive coaching, burnout, and not wanting to be “60 and lonely” 34:00 Where to find Ryan Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Ryan Barry: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-barry-8354036/ Appcues: https://www.appcues.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From CRO burnout and impostor syndrome to AI “bionics” and bot‑to‑bot buying, CRO Collective founder Warren Zenna argues that work is a choice, not a sentence: own the role you’re in, get honest about fit, build real competence, and lean on people so you don’t do it alone. He and Jolie riff on why stepping out of the seat isn't failure, what the CRO job actually demands, and how to know whether the seat you're in is still yours. Key Takeaways • Burnout = fit + ownership: you chose the role; change how you work or leave. • Success is a weak teacher; a misfit CRO stint clarified he’s a better coach. • Impostor syndrome drives overwork, weak hires, and reluctance to delegate. • Teams mirror leaders: blame and politics usually signal dodged responsibility. • Competence + communication: be excellent at your craft and at explaining it. • AI as bionics, not a mask: tools amplify you, but you still “pay the piper.” • Grounding > grinding: relationships, sleep, food, and movement keep you sane. Timestamps 00:00 Intro /“What makes you you?” 01:10 Parents, genetics, culture & identity 03:20 CRO burnout, fit, and “no victims” 08:10 Why the CRO role wasn’t for Warren 10:30 Coaching CROs: impostor syndrome & self‑sabotage 14:40 Leadership, responsibility, and political cultures 16:40 What great CROs and companies do differently 19:20 AI as bionics vs. fake competence 26:00 AI agents in sales & bot‑to‑bot buying 30:00 Staying grounded: people, self‑care, responsibility for others 32:20 Why he built The CRO Collective / where to find Warren Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Warren Zenna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/warrenz/ The CRO Collective: https://thecrocollective.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From live-recording on Wistia’s new (beta) platform to reframing “failure,” funding, and mental fitness, Wistia cofounder/CEO Chris Savage shares how creative optimism and long horizons build durable companies: pick problems worth working on for years, listen hard, ship again, and design recovery so you don’t burn out. Key Takeaways • Failure vs feedback: crickets → quit; caring feedback → iterate. • Choose a winnable game: align funding with your tempo (not “triple-triple-double”). • Small + patient can be an edge; timing is often slower than you think. • Recovery is a strategy: daily workouts ↑ stress capacity; delegate to protect energy. • Lead (and parent) by modeling: behavior ripples through teams. • Honesty compounds trust: own mistakes publicly and flip them into loyalty. • Use customers’ language; expect spike-drop-rebuild post-launch. Timestamps 00:00 Intro / “What makes you you?” 02:00 UX tips: Stage view, pop-out, device-switch quirks 05:20 “What makes you you?”, optimistic, excitable, pathfinding 08:30 Failure vs. feedback; when to persist vs. walk away 10:45 Webinars pivot: acquire → rebuild → months of low trials/no retention 15:10 Funding fit & expectations: bootstrapped + debt buyback; different game 18:30 Near-sale (2017) → “pretend we sold”: vacations, delegation, balance 22:40 Stress & recovery: daily workouts, capacity, team leverage (oxygen-mask rule) 26:00 Modeling at home & work; radical honesty (“we messed up” email) 29:30 Wistia's success: right macro shift, patience, culture; be your own best customer 33:00 Launch reality: spike → drop → compounding touchpoints 34:30 Where to find Chris Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Chris Savage: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjsavage/ Wistia: https://wistia.com/ Talking Too Loud Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-too-loud-with-chris-savage/id1525785118 The Art of Learning: https://www.joshwaitzkin.com/the-art-of-learning Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From the highs of vibe-coding to the reality of bugs, burnout, and hype, writer/AI consultant Ben shares how to use AI as leverage without losing yourself. His mantra: slow is fast, own the work, calibrate risk, and double down on the only durable moat in an automated future: real human connection. Key Takeaways • Use AI for leverage, not identity: watch the “God complex.” • Learn it before you delegate it; verify and own the code. • Abstraction creates cognitive debt: stay close to high-stakes work. • Entrepreneurship ≠ morality; luck and timing matter: set your risk bar. • Protect non-performative spaces; social + AI can distort self-worth. • Relationships outlast tools: connection drives health and resilience. Timestamps 00:00 Intro / “What makes you you?” 02:47 Vibe-coding highs → bugs, burnout, humility 07:05 Learning to program; owning security and outcomes 15:16 AI’s limits: the “eager amnesiac intern” & “slow is fast” 24:28 Pulling back from the praise-glaze / God complex 30:38 Social media parallels; incentives & guardrails 36:29 Mental health: delusions, boundaries, real-world checks 49:43 Human connection as the future-proof moat 53:28 Where to find Ben Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Ben Wise: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benawise/ Storyd: https://storyd.studio/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Former D‑1 sprinter turned growth leader, Natalie Marcotullio, knows that winning starts with knowing when to rest. She joins Jolie to riff on boundaries, bad first drafts, and why your Minimum Viable Product should come with a Maximum Viable Pause. If your Slack pings feel louder than your heartbeat, hit play. Key Takeaways • Athletic mindset = built‑in grit, but recovery is the power move • Saying no is a growth strategy; focus > FOMO • Fail fast, learn faster: your worst MVP is better than a perfect idea on ice • Data drives decisions, but self‑care drives you • Introversion can be a sales superpower • Autonomy > luxury lifestyle • Turn work into play Timestamps 00:00 Identity check: family roots & the runner’s edge 02:57 Using an athletic mindset to outpace revenue fires 05:57 Why the biggest lessons hide inside the losses 09:03 The radical art of saying “no” 12:01 Drawing lines so burnout can’t cross them 15:12 Therapy, walks, and other legit leadership tools 25:12 Level‑up season: taking on new challenges 30:52 MVPs that keep the team (and budget) intact 36:44 Decode team motivations, unlock collaboration 38:37 Spotting burnout before it banners your calendar 42:46 Creativity pops when you step away 44:51 Building a culture where mental health is KPI #1 Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Natalie Marcotullio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-marcotullio/ Navattic: https://www.navattic.com/ The Four Tendencies: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/ Exit Five Drive: https://exitfive.com/drive/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From grappling with childhood trauma and even a near-fatal health scare to closing eight-figure deals and choosing freedom over a seven-figure paycheck, revenue leader Brandon Fluharty unpacks the intentional routines, personal frameworks, and mindset shifts that transformed an insecure overachiever into a fulfilled high-performer living life on his own terms. Key Takeaways • Lead with intention, not autopilots • Your voice > outside noise. • Your number isn’t your worth. • Routines and systems beat burnout. • Skip the $250K starters; pitch the $25M problems. • Freedom beats the seven-figure paycheck. • The WORK → PLAY framework: Ponder, Leverage, Act, Yield. Timestamps 00:00  Intro / “what makes you you?” 05:34  Systems → flow; invite the muse. 08:23  Intentionality from childhood, going against the grain. 10:58  Burnout: when outside voices drown your inner one. 13:22  Skip $250K starters → pitch $25M problems. 17:55  Introversion as a strategic superpower. 24:42  “Insecure overachiever” & coping tools. 33:15  High performance + a good life. 36:47  Fork in the road, mini‑stroke & lifestyle choice. 45:22  WORK → PLAY framework (Ponder, Leverage, Act, Yield). 52:29  Perfect day → act & yield. Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Brandon Fluharty: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonfluharty/ The Purposeful Performer: https://www.purposefulperformer.com/ Turning Pro: https://stevenpressfield.com/books/turning-pro/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From transforming childhood insecurities into million‑dollar storytelling skills to setting hard “one‑more‑thing” boundaries after missing his daughter’s first roll‑over, revenue leader Devin Reed unpacks the mindsets, warning flags, and daily resets that keep him centered while scaling side gigs and SaaS rocket ships. Key Takeaways • Lead with story, not specs • Treat blue‑bird wins with gratitude: stay ready for swings • Dad duty > Slack after 4 pm • Create for joy, not just pay • Daily self‑compassion beats the inner critic • Friday pool‑and‑poker nights keep the tank full Timestamps 00:00 Intro / “what makes you you?” 02:20 Hoops chat 03:32 Storytelling vs. imposter syndrome 09:48 $1M rookie year, gratitude breath 11:37 Clari hyper‑growth; new dad 14:45 Missed roll‑over → “one‑more‑thing” boundary 19:00 The Reeder scales to six figures 22:57 Keep creativity over cash 29:00 Friday pool‑&‑poker ritual 30:21 Learning self‑compassion 37:19 Pep talk: trust yourself Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Devin Reed: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinreed/ The Reeder Newsletter: https://convert.thereeder.co/pod Reed Between the Lines Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/5u2UnlSJjYE7YVQZpLCJza Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From wedding‑venue discovery calls to six‑a‑side soccer tactics, agency founder Sam Dunning unpacks the mindsets, warning signals, and daily resets that keep him centered while scaling Breaking B2B. He and Jolie explore why a fat pipeline beats hard‑sell pressure, how styes shout “slow down,” and what two kids and one loyal pup can teach a revenue leader about presence. Key Takeaways • A full pipeline sets you free because it lets you show up calm and human • Discovery is a two-way conversation built on mutual respect • Burnout speaks through your body long before your mind catches up • Kids and dogs are everyday teachers in presence and leadership • Movement clears the fog when your brain feels overworked • Creating daily routines builds leverage and protects your energy Timestamps 00:00 Intro: chip‑on‑shoulder & “the game” mindset 03:59 Laid‑back sales posture & pipeline philosophy 05:22 Discovery call before demo (wedding‑venue example) 06:35 Detaching from outcome & filling the funnel 09:11 Sales‑call framework & mutual respect red flags 11:01 Freight‑train insight: Greece holiday panic & lost house key 15:06 Burnout’s voice: styes, stress and agency exit 21:06 Invisible hustle costs: late‑night U.S. calls 24:33 Delegating to protect mental health 30:22 Leadership lessons from a 5‑year‑old & 7‑month‑old 34:06 Pup‑powered intuition & match‑making story 39:57 Reset ritual: gym, football, walks 43:16 Where to find Sam 44:14 Closing thoughts Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Sam Dunning: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samdunning/ Breaking B2B: https://www.breakingb2b.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From doom-scrolling to micro-wins, content creator Jamal Hamilton shares the inner work that helped him face one of the hardest weeks of his life, and still show up with purpose. He and Jolie unpack emotional escapism, what it means when “old Jamal” resurfaces, and why making your bed really is a mental health strategy. Key Takeaways • “Action alleviates anxiety”: clarity comes from movement, not rumination • Vulnerability isn’t risky: it’s how we find our people • Escapism hides in plain sight: phones, hustle, even over-exercising • Micro-wins matter: stacking small victories builds momentum • Prompts and partners help when you don’t have the words • Helping one person is enough. Metrics don’t measure impact Timestamps 00:00 Intro: layoffs, illness & emotional overload 05:33 A week from hell, and how he got through it 10:38 LinkedIn as therapy 12:52 Sharing the hard stuff builds community 17:34 Escape artist tendencies & naming the avoidance 22:28 “Action alleviates anxiety”, the quote that changed everything 25:45 When the next step feels overwhelming 31:58 Relationship tools: prompts for emotional clarity 35:49 Victory lists, daily reflection & redefining progress 39:16 Being human is hard, grace over grit 40:43 Where to find Jamal 43:46 Closing thoughts Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Jamal Hamilton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamaljhamilton/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From redefining “lazy” to defending a four‑day workweek, sales‑leader‑turned‑author Leslie Venetz shares the inner work that let her trade burnout for balance. She and Jolie unpack toxic hustle culture, the power of saying “no,” and why deep journaling beats quick fixes when you’re rebuilding a healthier relationship with work and self. Key Takeaways • Rest ≠ laziness: recovery is a revenue strategy • Trust your team; micromanagement is a tax on growth • Boundaries create leverage; desperate yeses drain it • Community ends isolation (in sobriety, in sales, in life) • Deep‑dive journaling rewires limiting beliefs faster than surface habits • Build a career you never want to escape from Timestamps 00:00 Intro: family health crises & off‑record vulnerability 02:00 Writing a book while running a business, impostor syndrome & grit 05:42 Who is Leslie? Joy, curiosity and petting every dog 10:38 First sales job shock: from autonomy to bathroom‑break policing 14:53 Toxic cultures & people‑pleasing in your 20s 19:05 On an island: being the only woman in sales leadership 23:31 Community & sobriety: why connection is the real higher power 25:38 The strategic “no” and designing work you don’t need to escape 31:54 Hustle myths, redefining “lazy,” and honoring rest 38:03 Four‑day workweek: no justification needed 42:28 Shadow‑work journaling, gratitude, and self‑paced healing 51:15 Book launch, where to find Leslie, and closing thoughts Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Leslie Venetz: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leslievenetz/ The Sales-Led GTM Agency: https://salesledgtm.com/ Profit-Generating Pipeline: https://www.amazon.com/Profit-Generating-Pipeline-Formula-Revenue/dp/B0F6L29YZT Quit Like a Woman: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/605025/quit-like-a-woman-by-holly-whitaker/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From 90‑hour restaurant weeks to running a LinkedIn‑ads agency on his terms, Justin Rowe learned that the ultimate growth hack is guarding your calendar. He and Jolie trade stories on saying “no,” building in public without burning out, and why valuing yourself beyond a job title is the most underrated business strategy on the internet. Key Takeaways • Time is your scarcest currency: budget it like cash • Protected “offline” blocks fuel clearer thinking (and kinder leadership) • Saying no creates leverage; desperate yeses drain it • Lead with strengths, outsource the rest: startup superpower unlocked • Culture = integrity + flexibility; you can teach tactics, not character Timestamps 00:00 Intro: burnout, boundaries & the invisible string theory 02:59 From kitchen chaos to calendar control 06:02 Time management tips when everything feels urgent 09:01 High‑pressure roles & remembering “we’re not saving lives” 12:07 Building in public: spotlight or stressor? 17:53 Leverage 101: the art of a strategic “no” 29:09 Hiring for integrity, training for skills 35:31 Designing a workday that guards mental health 40:04 Self‑worth > salary bands: redefining success 44:29 Invisible strings, lucky breaks & networking serendipity Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Justin Rowe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-rowe-4043339b/ Impactable: https://impactable.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

When Ché’s kids called out the calendar for stealing their dad, he hit pause and rewrote the script: one that puts family, mental health, and meaningful work on the same page. In this episode, Jolie and Ché riff on work‑life boundaries, AI as a creativity amplifier (not a crutch), and how inpatient care can be a springboard, not a setback. If your to‑do list is louder than your loved ones, this convo will realign your priorities. Key Takeaways • Share the messy middle, not just the highlight reel • Quality time > quantity hustle: your presence is your superpower • AI should extend human creativity, not replace it • Not every ping is a fire drill • Celebrate small wins to build momentum (and protect mental health) Timestamps 00:00 Personal connections & why stories stick 05:59 Vulnerability at work: the trust accelerator 11:50 Kids, calendars & the wake‑up call on balance 18:04 Perspective check: most tasks aren’t ER‑level 23:59 AI as a time‑saver and creativity spark 28:23 Post‑break boundaries: making space to breathe 32:15 Depression, inpatient care & the climb back up 37:27 Community support and celebrating every inch forward 45:22 Turning stress into growth habits Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Ché Ugwuala: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ch%C3%A9-ugwuala-mba-1749ab21 Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Landing‑page whisperer Tas Bober gets candid about postpartum burnout, therapy as mental hygiene, and why “I only work three days a week” is her richest flex yet. She and Jolie unpack the fear leaders feel around setting boundaries and how choosing a lifestyle business over a growth grind can be the ultimate power move. Key Takeaways • Adaptability is a super‑skill, but unchecked can morph into over‑extension • Burnout hides in plain sight, until it bulldozes you • Therapy = dental floss for the brain: do it before there’s a cavity • Loud boundaries (“No, thanks: I log off at 3 PM”) protect both work and life • Success isn’t headcount or ARR; it’s time with the people who matter Timestamps 00:00 Meet Tas & the mental health cost of high growth 02:49 Cultural identity, adaptability, and feeling “everywhere & nowhere” 06:04 Postpartum burnout: how it snuck in and blew up 11:45 Therapy as weekly maintenance, not emergency surgery 17:02 Boundary‑setting 101 (and why leaders fear it) 23:58 Lifestyle biz vs. growth biz: choosing your lane 30:01 Saying “no” as a privilege, and a prerequisite for sanity 35:53 Work, family, and the moments money can’t buy Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Tas Bober: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tasbober/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

When a six‑week trip home turned into sudden grief, Dilara Cossette learned exactly how thin the line is between “crushing it” and being crushed. In this raw sit‑down with Jolie, the self‑described bridge‑builder between sales and marketing gets honest about toxic teams, performance anxiety, and why fractional doesn’t mean “always on.” If you’re leading while your heart hurts, this episode is the permission slip you need. Key Takeaways • Vulnerability isn’t weak: it’s the shortcut to real trust • Fractional leaders must set loud boundaries or drown in Slack pings • Spot stress signals early; burnout is easier to avoid than to rehab • Hobbies and micro‑joys keep the empathy tank full • Celebrate the tiny wins; they compound into resilience Timestamps 00:00 Meet Dilara & why empathy is a demand‑gen superpower 01:44 Leading with vulnerability after personal loss 04:37 Toxic cultures, unrealistic expectations & the exit plan 10:20 Fractional leadership: value without 24/7 availability 15:56 Layoffs & how to show up for colleagues in free fall 17:52 Reading your own stress signals before they scream 22:30 Hobbies, balance, and the “no vacation‑to‑vacation” life 33:00 Grief in business: making space for the hard days 40:01 Modeling vulnerability so teams feel safe to follow 47:02 Burnout red flags & boundary resets 56:03 Fractional doesn’t equal fractional human Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Dilara Cossette: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dilaracossette Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Jason Widup went from white‑knuckle anxiety to an eight‑hour‑sleep evangelist, and his team is better for it. In this episode, he and Jolie trade notes on self‑doubt, parenting curveballs, and why a morning workout beats doom‑scrolling every time. If you’re leading with an empty battery, press play before you press send. Key Takeaways • Anxiety wears many masks: naming it is step one • Sleep, sweat, and salads: the simplest stack for mental clarity • Swap coping vices for habits that compound confidence • Leaders who model boundaries give teams permission to do the same • Tiny daily reflections = big, lasting growth Timestamps 00:00 Anxiety, leadership & the moment Jason hit pause 02:10 What anxiety really looks like in high achievers 06:31 Trading unhealthy crutches for healthier rituals 11:16 From late‑night beers to 6 AM burpees 19:28 The trinity: sleep, exercise, nutrition 26:19 Vision boards & micro‑habits 27:21 Self‑compassion > self-criticism 32:06 Quieting impostor syndrome with data and daylight 39:49 Designing a culture that protects personal time 47:09 Normalizing mental health talk at work Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Jason Widup: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonwidup Pixis: https://pixis.ai/ Why We Sleep: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Why-We-Sleep/Matthew-Walker/9781501144325 Atomic Habits: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits Breath: https://www.mrjamesnestor.com/breath-book Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

David Walsh went from pink‑slip panic to building a B2B influencer marketplace that’s turning heads. In this candid convo with Jolie, he unpacks the very real loneliness of the corner office, the ruthless side of corporate America, and why trusting your team is the only way to keep your sanity intact. If you’ve ever wondered whether the stress is worth the thrill: listen in. Key Takeaways • Getting fired can be the nudge that unlocks resilience (and your next big idea) • Transparency > bravado: straight talk builds trust, and better teams • Startups demand full‑body commitment; protect your mental bandwidth • Leadership is lonely: build a peer network before you need it • Grit wins: break audacious goals into bite‑size moves, celebrate, repeat Timestamps 00:00 Meet David Walsh & the “fired” origin story 02:40 Stress signals and why CEOs must log off 05:18 Lessons a layoff teaches in 48 hours 10:09 Corporate America, unfiltered 12:25 Choosing recovery over constant grind 19:35 Hiring people who outshine you (on purpose) 22:20 The myth, and math, of solo entrepreneurship 24:34 Keeping friendships alive when work never sleeps 28:15 Setting “impossible” goals the doable way 32:13 Grit, grit, and a little more grit 35:23 Stress‑management hacks that actually work 40:29 A culture where failure fuels growth Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links David Walsh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dw1232 Limelight: https://www.limelighthq.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Revenue leader, former Refine Labs exec, and dad to a snow-loving toddler, Sam Kuehnle unpacks burnout’s warning signs and the myth of the busy calendar. He and Jolie dive into self-imposed pressure, mental load in leadership, and why pushing pause might be the smartest move a high-performer can make. Key Takeaways • Being busy isn’t a badge of honor • Mental burnout shows up on your skin (literally eczema) long before it blows up • “Playbook thinking” fails when real life interrupts the plan. • Fix the human first (self-care, family, breaks), then worry about the leader role. • Model rest and boundaries: your team notices actions more than directives. Timestamps 00:06 Intro & dog cameos 02:12 What makes Sam, Sam 04:19 Early burnout signals 07:14 Health vs. deadlines 10:08 Core motivators 11:26 Leadership’s weight 14:16 Advice to younger self 16:30 Tailored communication 19:37 Busy ≠ important 22:46 Putting team health first 25:56 Anti-playbook mindset 26:20 Life vs. deliverables 31:49 Human before leader 36:01 Trust & resilience 38:07 Modeling rest 41:49 Lasting memories 42:14 Where to find Sam Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Sam Kuehnle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samkuehnle/ Loxo: https://www.loxo.co/ Marketing Meditations Newsletter: https://www.samkuehnle.com/ Founders Podcast: https://www.founderspodcast.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

MBA student, Bogotá expat, and SaaS founder, Jonathan Bland lives for challenge, until his body calls timeout. He and Jolie explore stacking an MBA on a Colombian move, hitting burnout’s limit bar, and why listening to “early whispers” of fatigue saves careers. Key Takeaways • Stacking challenges is thrilling, until it isn’t. • Burnout whispers become screams if ignored. • Seasonal “push then plateau” cycles keep ambition healthy. • Listen to your body louder than your calendar. • Community wins multiply when ego exits the room. Timestamps 00:06 Intro: constant‑challenge personality 05:28 Colombia move & MBA juggle 10:52 Finding burnout’s limit bar 15:59 Early‑whisper body signals 21:42 Redesigning pace post‑burnout 26:47 Family priorities & boundaries 32:17 Push‑plateau strategy for goals 37:19 Community over ego lesson 42:51 Listening before crashing 48:04 Closing & LinkedIn tag Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Jonathan Bland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-r-bland/ Omni Lab: https://www.omnilabconsulting.com/ 1440 Newsletter: https://join1440.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Paid‑search vet Evan Hughes calculates stress as “pipeline gap ÷ realistic capacity.” He shares the deep-work timer that tames Slack, the long runs that give birth to campaign ideas, and the lesson that a sustainable pace beats heroic spurts. Key Takeaways • Ask “At what cost?” before stretching goals. • Slack‑off blocks double deep‑work quality. • Running acts as brainstorming engine. • Leaders need private spaces to unload invisible stress. • Legacy > quarterly numbers: mentor, don’t martyr. Timestamps 00:01 Intro: forever “why?” kid 04:27 Busy vs. productive math 08:50 Deep‑work timer breakdown 13:23 Running‑powered ideation 18:31 Public break‑blocking on calendars 22:02 Quota vs. capacity reality check 26:00 Coaching healthy work rhythms 30:10 Fitness‑fueled creativity hacks 34:49 Redefining success & legacy 39:42 Outro & LinkedIn hook Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Evan Hughes: https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanghughes/ Refine Labs: https://www.refinelabs.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Commsor founder Mac Reddin swears fun is a feature, not frosting. From the Lego‑Brontosaurus viral stunt to #DinoFacts swag, he shows how deliberate play powers remote teams, why “Zoom‑ifying the office” fails, and how pacing beats sprinting for marathon startups. Key Takeaways • Intentional remote > copy‑pasted office culture. • Fun embedded in work beats after‑hours “culture add‑ons.” • Sprint sparingly, pace always: marathon rules for startups. • Founder habits set the only culture that sticks. • Community flywheels outlast paid‑ad budgets. Timestamps 00:01 Intro: Lego Bronto origin story 05:19 Fun‑first operating principles 09:32 Avoiding look‑good drift in Slack 13:28 Healthy hustle vs. toxic grind 18:13 Goal‑setting amid chaos 23:46 Async rituals that bond teams 28:00 Imposter‑syndrome antidotes 33:32 Pacing, then sprinting 37:51 Community‑driven growth loops 42:49 Closing & #DinoFact offer Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Mac Reddin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mac-reddin/ Commsor: https://www.commsor.com/ Go-to-Network: https://www.commsor.com/post/go-to-network-future-of-growth Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Competitive‑hockey grit and weekly therapy keep CMO Mark Huber sane inside VC‑paced growth. He and Jolie dive into blocking therapy like a board meeting, decoupling self-worth from the pipeline, and why voice-note walks beat Slack doom-scrolls. Key Takeaways • Therapy on the calendar is a power move, not weakness. • Outcome ≠ identity: effort is the real KPI. • Leaders destigmatize mental health by speaking first. • Voice‑note walks turn rumination into insight. • Humor keeps intensity sustainable in startups. Timestamps 00:01 Intro: therapy as strategic asset 04:50 ADHD superpower & pitfalls 08:43 Blocking non‑negotiable care time 13:43 Stigma vs. strength in leadership 17:07 Detach quota from self‑esteem 21:55 Voice‑note reflection workflow 25:51 Culture of open calendars 30:31 Nature breaks & perspective 35:12 Making therapy normal company‑wide 39:18 Outro & LinkedIn connect Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Mark Huber: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markehuber/ UserEvidence: https://userevidence.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Meme‑king Tim Davidson is an introvert who survives agency chaos with therapy, dad jokes, and ruthless stack audits. He explains how becoming a new father cut his workweek without cutting revenue, and why humor disarms buyers faster than any “value slide.” Key Takeaways • Therapy outperforms playbooks for clear communication. • One tool → one KPI; complexity taxes cognition. • Humor interrupts skepticism and speeds trust. • Async memes scale relationships while you sleep. • Four‑hour focused blocks beat eight‑hour context switches. Timestamps 00:01 Intro: 47 SaaS log‑ins later 03:44 Quarterly stack kill‑list 07:26 Selling subtraction to execs 11:13 Async meme enablement 15:12 Humor as pattern interrupt 18:40 “Minimum effective” tech stack 22:30 New‑dad scheduling hacks 26:08 User feedback video libraries 29:26 Minimalist dashboards 33:34 Wrap‑up & glasses joke Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Tim Davidson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tadavidson41/ B2B Rizz: https://b2brizz.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From teen side‑hustles to a calm, one‑woman content agency, Lashay Lewis learned the hard way that entrepreneurial depression hides behind “I’m busy.” She and Jolie unpack guest‑podcasting as free therapy, pricing for peace of mind, and why success now equals quiet mornings, not headcount. Key Takeaways • Success = spacious mornings: calendar it first, build work around it. • Guest‑podcast tours grow reach and shrink on‑camera anxiety. • Deep‑dive, single offer > dabbling in ten side gigs. • Freedom pricing: raise rates until you can fire bad clients. • Rested founders make kinder (and smarter) decisions. Timestamps 00:01 Intro & fractional content life 05:08 Entrepreneurial depression origin story 09:50 Podcast‑guest growth loop 14:24 Building, then burning a personal brand 20:02 Peace‑of‑mind pricing math 24:28 Boundaries as leverage 29:15 Client‑selection filters 34:02 Designing a freedom schedule 39:21 Freedom metrics that matter 43:49 Close & LinkedIn invite Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Lashay Lewis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lashaylewis/ Authority Plug: https://authorityplug.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

Having survived a unicorn‑math pipeline target, Bolaji Oyejide preaches bottom‑up forecasting for sanity. He explains how 4× pipeline demands erode confidence, the red flags hidden in CPL trends, and diplomatic scripts to push back on delusional boards. Key Takeaways • Bottom‑up forecasts anchor credibility and calm. • T2D3 hype often morphs into tyrannical OKRs. • Watch CPL‑to‑CPBD trends: the canary in the coal mine. • Data‑backed dissent keeps your badge and your brain. • Small, early wins rebuild team confidence after carnage. Timestamps 00:02 Intro: fairy‑tale pipeline scars 05:48 Top‑down vs. bottom‑up models 11:40 T2D3’s dark side explained 15:30 Cost metrics as smoke alarms 21:03 Scripts for polite dissent 26:21 Quarterly re‑forecast cadence 30:45 Storytelling to reset morale 35:57 Confidence‑building quick wins 40:55 Pipeline stress antidotes 47:14 Closing wisdom drop Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Bolaji Oyejide: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bolaji/ Demand Wars: https://www.demandwars.com/ Predictable Revenue: https://predictablerevenue.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

A botched coffee run taught Alex Boyd that ownership is a binary concept: you do it or you don’t. He unpacks variable-pay psychology, lifestyle creep traps, and how lowering his salary actually increased his freedom. Key Takeaways • Variable pay builds grit when lifestyle stays flat. • Define “enough” cash before the slot‑machine brain takes over. • Post‑deal debriefs sharpen future pitches in minutes. • Voice‑note journaling empties mental cache on the go. • Freedom > fanciest title; optimize for optionality. Timestamps 00:00 Intro: the coffee‑run lesson 05:15 Binary ownership mindset 11:46 Variable‑comp psychology deep dive 15:29 Lifestyle‑creep red flags 21:19 Defining “enough” numbers 27:27 Voice‑note debrief workflow 32:53 Founder vs. employee identity 38:12 Money as optionality 42:45 Burnout‑prevention rituals 49:08 Wrap: grit with grace Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Alex Boyd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcboyd/ RevenueZen: https://revenuezen.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From ministry dreams to founding his own ABM agency, Mason Cosby proves revenue is just a resource for bigger missions. He and Jolie discuss purpose‑driven positioning, refugee‑English side projects, and why planned slack hours keep agency life human. Key Takeaways • Money is a tool; mission is the point. • Values‑client fit prevents quiet‑quitting consultants. • Three non‑negotiable duties bring role clarity fast. • Planned slack absorbs inevitable client fire drills. • Frameworks serve nonprofits as well as enterprises. Timestamps 00:00 Intro: ministry kid to marketer 04:20 Finding meaning beyond MQLs 10:13 Values → positioning playbook 14:52 Refugee‑English project story 20:47 ABM frameworks with purpose 24:30 Slack‑hour math explained 28:58 Hiring for integrity, training skills 35:02 Family / funnel balance 40:18 Revenue as resource recap 44:42 Farewell & call‑to‑action Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Mason Cosby: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masoncosby/ Scrappy ABM: https://scrappyabm.com/ Hero on a Mission: https://www.dashhouse.com/hero-on-a-mission/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

After relocating three times, buying a house, and spiraling into level‑10 pain, Vlad Blagojevic rebuilt his life around radical responsibility. Beach walks became business planning, brutal self‑audits replaced blame, and empathy emerged as his most reliable growth hack. Key Takeaways • Own every decision, even the bad ones, to find real levers. • Four‑hour beach walks beat four more hours in Slack. • Writing therapy turns pain into playbooks. • Nature focus crowds out doom‑scroll rumination. • Honest self‑audits precede any comeback. Timestamps 00:00 Intro: whirlwind year setup 05:59 Pain wall & mindset audit 11:40 Beach‑walk strategy sessions 18:44 Responsibility vs. blame shift 23:30 Family decisions & ripple effects 30:28 Work redesign from the ground up 35:53 Conflict‑lens empathy drills 42:02 Nature‑powered focus hacks 48:21 Scaling self‑audits company‑wide 54:08 Key mantra wrap‑up Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Vladimir Blagojević: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirblagojevic/ Fullfunnel.io: https://fullfunnel.io/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From hospital hallways to boardrooms, Anthony Kennada learned that the cure for anxiety is surrender, not spreadsheet mastery. He and Jolie trade stories about atrial fibrillation scares, 32-hour trauma-informed workweeks, and why authentic founder storytelling forges the deepest customer bonds. Key Takeaways • Control is an illusion: surrender frees energy for real problems. • Faith or purpose anchors recovery when tactics fail. • Planned 32‑hour weeks beat hero hours after loss. • Raw storytelling deepens customer loyalty faster than features. • Normalize “I’m not OK, cover me” in leadership circles. Timestamps 00:01 Intro: health shock & perspective 05:33 A‑fib, hospitals & anxiety math 08:51 Child medical crisis & surrender 15:19 Stillbirth, grief, and work identity 19:16 Faith and focus filters 24:22 Designing trauma‑informed schedules 28:15 Vulnerability as marketing moat 33:04 Practicing compassion at scale 39:40 Community as recovery partner 43:49 Gratitude & sign‑off Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Anthony Kennada: https://www.linkedin.com/in/akennada/ AudiencePlus: https://audienceplus.com/ Gainsight: https://www.gainsight.com/ Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/

From capping a quota‑crushing career to dismantling “growth‑at‑all‑costs” myths, Chris Walker shows that most burnout starts on the cap table, not in the cubicle. He and Jolie rip through VC term-sheet traps, why 40% rep attainment is a strategy failure (not a sales failure), and how EBITDA-first planning turns frantic startups into sustainable businesses. Key Takeaways • Cap‑table math = mental‑health math: raise sanely or suffer later. • EBITDA goals force healthier, slower, but longer‑lasting growth. • Less than 40 % quota attainment screams bad planning, not bad people. • Morning meeting bans protect the only deep‑work hours a C‑suite gets. • Pick investors who value tenure over vanity ARR. Timestamps 00:01 Opening & origin story 05:06 Hyper‑growth scars & cap‑table reality 10:15 Quota failure as planning failure 15:30 40 % attainment unpacked 20:55 Burn multiples vs. burnout 26:53 EBITDA > vanity metrics 31:14 Designing humane comp plans 35:45 Deep‑work rituals for execs 41:37 Choosing sanity‑first investors 46:42 Closing reflections Like this one? Follow Revenue Mind, and leave a review if it hit home. It’s how more revenue leaders find the show, and how we keep mental health right next to the number. Links Chris Walker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriswalker171/ Refine Labs: https://www.refinelabs.com/ GTM Live Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/b2b-revenue-vitals/id1511588213 Jolie Shapiro: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jolieshapiro/ Revenue Mind: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revenuemind/